Guild Wars 2

sephiroth.4217:

Mind explaining to me why PvE Living story event skins that happened last year are more prestigious than the ones from 3 years ago? Or how a fractal capacitor (which most ppl own) is again more prestigious than a grinning ghastly shield that 100 people can win from raffles from time to time?

I can always ask my boss if I can work an hour extra now and then, and then I let the company pay me for it. This is basically ‘real life farming’. It’s like farming gold ingame, but far less dull, and I can easily make more than 300g per hour. More then 300g for sacrificing only one single hour of my free time. So, after ‘farming’ for about 14 hours (not even 2 working days), I can just buy a Ghastly Grinning Shield from the TP.
What exactly is prestigous about that? I went to work for 2 days. So amazing.

Okay, in my opinion, there’s three ‘levels’ of prestige:

1. prestigeless: anything that can simply be bought on the TP or anywhere else (Legendaries, Halloween skins, …)
2. a little prestigious: items that you could get earlier, but cannot be obtained anymore in any way (Shattered Dragon Wings, …)
3. prestigious: items that require a certain amount of skill to be obtained, doesn’t matter if they can still be obtained or not (green/yellow super skins, Mini Liadri, future Legendaries(?!) …)

I consider the green and yellow super skins more prestigious than the Shattered Dragon Wings, because it required skill to finish the SAB levels on Tribulation Mode, even if you knew the paths. The Shattered Dragon Wings were really easy to obtain (smash 50 piñatas, light 50 fireworks and so on…).

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

What? That you can press space bar, dodge, and have very little latency? lolololol Hate to burst your bubble but the moment there were guides to getting those items the skill requirement to get them went out the window lololol.

lolololol hate to burst your bubble, but please download and play “I Wanna Be the Guy” (it’s free and only 69MB!). All you have to do is jump and shoot, latency doesn’t even matter. You may even watch a guide! According your logic, it’s a very easy game. So please finish this game to check if your logic makes any sense.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

The prestige on the Halloween skins isn’t about that. It’s about being at THE FIRST event for GW2. Being present and having the RAREST items that came from it…

lolololol hate to burst your bubble, but I wasn’t around during the first Halloween and I could still buy all the skins today if I wanted to.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

You do realize, using some of the most expensive skins in the game as an example is laughable… To use an analogy, Think about a Ferrari or Lambourgini. Think about their value on the market place. Now suddenly every automobile user cries their eyes out about how it isn’t fair that they don’t have one to the point that someone just starts giving them away… Can you guess how quickly the costs of those cars will decline? It would be catastrophic…

You do realize, using some of the most expensive cars as an analogy is laughable… I’ve never heard of Lamborghinis and Ferraris being given away for free by the companies to random people all over the world. I’ve never heard of people then starting to sell these cars to each other for cheap prices because there’s just so many of them being spread around for free. And I’ve never heard of Lamborghinis and Ferraris then reaching their ‘true’ market value only if they’ve been around for 3 years. I think your analogy is not a valid analogy at all… Sorry.

sephiroth.4217:

If I remember right too, we didn’t have “recieve this for doing this achievement” reward system either, most of it was just RNG based, so if it was Liadri, you could complete the required task for reward 15-20 times before getting Liadri.

You can’t even compare that :/ yes, they were RNG based, but required no skill at all.
Liadri on the other hand required skills, but wasn’t RNG based. Making Liadri skill-based and RNG would’ve been totally imbalanced.

Yeah, I think people that already have all dyes unlocked should not get the Celebratory Dye Pack, but a Mini Queen Jennah instead.

That way everyone would be happy.

sephiroth.4217:

As much as I want them too, they can’t be released again without releasing other old skins like Ghastly Grinning Shield or other various items, and that could potentially destroy the market while insulting veteran players in one bold move.

Destroy the market? Look at the Ghastly Grinning Shield. There’s almost zero movement in this market, there are 1-6 shields that get traded from one rich player to another rich player maybe once or twice per week. I don’t see how this should be a more desirable market form than one with a little more supply, lower prices and more players participating.
Who decides what ‘destroys’ a market? Rich players with Ghastly Grinning Shields? I don’t think so. Neither do I decide, of course. From an objective point of view rising prices are just as fine as falling prices.
The only markets that I’d consider as destroyed are Tiny Snowflakes, Thick Leather Sections and Medallions, since these are markets that are of use to almost nobody.

I do own the Holographic Shattered Dragon Wings and the Molten Gauntlets. And I don’t care if they re-release them… They weren’t even hard to get! All this ‘I play GW2 longer than you do’ is just bullkitten.
The only truly prestigious items ingame are Mini Liadri, the King Toad skins and the Storm Wizard skins. And maybe the Fractal Capacitor and the Luminescent Armor. If they’d add cheap ways to get them, only then I’d be kittened.

There already is an ‘Ignore Minipet Sound Option’.
You always have the option to ignore them.

Can we get an option to hide all male norn carrying legendaries? They ruin the aesthetic of the game.

xuse.6817:

[…]
Everyone in my skype room agrees with me.

OMG, I’m gonna put this very sentence at the end of every post I’ll ever make on these forums from now on. Great way to increase the validity of all my arguments.
Seriously though, this is so awesome, I admit I had to laugh a little

The problem is that the purpose of Luck is to increase MF on an account. I have played about 2500 hours, mostly PvE, and I’m at 150% MF right now.
If Anet gave Luck any other beneficial use, then players that have not maxed MF would always have to choose: Do I want to increase my MF? Or do I want to use this Luck for something else? And that would completely kill Luck’s original purpose. So, if Anet decides to give Luck any other uses, they can only be ‘one time only things’, or uses that are far, far inferior to adding Luck to your account MF, so that people wouldn’t even consider keeping their luck as long as they can still increase their MF with it. Maybe something like Mawdrey that grants you a champ bag for one stack of your exotic Luck.

The other problem is that people with maxed MF are probably less than 1% of the whole player base, so most players aren’t even affected by this. These <1% are mostly either people who didn’t think things through and thought it was an awesome idea to rush luck, or people who openend a lot of ToT bags for profit / specific items / whatever reasons.

RoRo.8270:

No it would make no sense for them to bring it make. Then they would have to bring back every other item that isn’t obtainable.

Lol, if your logic was true, then please explain me why they brought back the Fervid Censer, the Fused Gauntlets, the Sclerite Karka Shell, the Dragon helmet and all the other stuff you can buy at the laurel merchant.
They even brought back the Greatsaw and the Jetpack at one point.

Anet gives us the chance to obtain previously unobtainable items from time to time. What makes you so sure that the Power Cores are an exception and will be unobtainable forever?
We do not know if they will ever come back or not. All we know is that a lot of items did make a comeback.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

A-net made ascended gear after legendaries were released because they thought that the stat-gap was a problem. It meant that people felt forced to pay thousands of gold to have BiS. They do not like the idea of vertical progression.

That’s actually not true :P Before ascended gear was introduced, legendaries had the same stats as exotics.

Wanze.8410:

But lets assume you have enough gold to buy out 1 scrap, about 10k from the tp and another 50k from people that make their supply available once you brought the price up. What then?

I tell you what will happen: You will be stuck with a boatload of scraps in your banks that you cant sell because there isnt enough demand for it.

Sure some people would like to craft these backpacks for their skin but we will run out of power cores long before you sold off your blueprint scraps.

And the power cores arent the real problem its blade shards, which are hard to farm or expensive to forge and you need 425 of them for the exotic piece, 925 for the first stage of ascended. Long story short, you will have a hard time to find consumers that will buy your scraps at a price that would enable you to recover your investment costs, let alone make a profit.

But go ahead and buy the blueprints out and please keep us updated how your investment is getting along in the next month.

Ah, you were just bigmouthing and thought becuase you had a couple of thousand gold to your account you can manipulate a market?

I don’t think that you understood what he was trying to say. He never said that he wanted to sell the scraps, he never said that he wanted to invest gold for profit, he never said that he wanted to manipulate a market.
He just said that he thinks it’s scary how ‘easily’ someone could buy all scraps of one kind to essentially prevent all new players from ever crafting the Spinal Blades backpack, and then maybe throw them away just for trolling reasons.

Right now you’d need 3152g 08s 83c to buy all stacks of scrap 2/4 (the lowest in supply), which is a lot (at least for me), but it’s not impossible.

You’re right though, loads of them may still be in people’s personal storage, which makes it unpredictable how much gold one would actually need to buy ALL of them…

Tinni.4351:

I feel it might be too overwhelming because weapon swapping and legend swapping means that neither of our skill bars are “set”. This can prove a cognitive challenge because even with engineers and elementalists, the utility bar is always fixed. You know you’ll always get X when you press 0. But with revenant you have the additional cognative load of remembering which legend you have selected.

So you have 1-5 changing and 6-0 also changing. So I think weapons swap will be taken away before final release.

Sorry, but I really cannot see any cognitive challenge here.
I think you’re underestimating the capability of human brains.

Rozbuska.5263:

So Revenant should fill that heavy profession gap with mid HP pool and no weapon swap. It was all reasonable until devs ideas was washed out by river of tears.

So I expect now weapon swap to eles and engis aswell. Its all just about crying enough.

There is no ‘gap’ unless you want to see it there.
And not all feedback that doesn’t match your opinion is ‘crying’.

Alright guys, now that weapon swap will be added to fix the Revenant, this thread has lost its purpose (or rather fulfilled its purpose?) and can be closed. I just wanted to thank you all for 3000+ views and 100+ responses, thanks for the discussions, all the useful feedback and the creative suggested solutions. I don’t know if Anet ever looked into this thread, but even if they didn’t, I think that it still did a good job in making people think about and form opinions on the subject.
Anet chose to let us swap weapons, so it is very very unlikely that any of our other ideas/solutions here will be added to the Revenant profession. As for the ongoing discussions, other threads are probably more suited to continue these than this one now.
Thank you all!

Knox.8962:

The actual cast time, including aftercast animations, for the Mace Auto-Attack chain is 2.25 seconds. Which makes it pretty typical for 1h weapons that are not daggers. It is the same animation time as the warrior’s MH Sword chain if you are looking for a reference on the Live server.

For comparison, the Revenant Staff Auto attack chain hits 4 times in 2.2 seconds, and Necromancer and Thief Daggers hit for 3 times in 2.05 seconds.

Okay, I’m sure that you’re right If I think about it, 3 auto-attacks in 1¼ seconds does sound way too fast. I didn’t test it since Revenant is not available at the moment, I just summed the cast time numbers from the wiki up without thinking about it… I’m sorry

To me this sounds like Yoga or Tennis in GTA V.
It’s funny that this is there, and it’s okay and more or less entertaining if you do it once, but replay-value? Nah, not really.
The problem is: I don’t start playing GTA V because I want to do Yoga. I want to speed through the cities, crash cars, make things explode and complete some thrilling missions.
And I don’t start playing GW2 because I want to do pointless time trials like killing vines with a flamethrower kit or shooting things in an obstacle course. I want to do MMO stuff, fight epic battles against well-designed bosses or hordes of mobs with my friends, new challenges that force me to master my profession, and some awesome hard-earned rewards from time to time.
I guess that’d be my definition of ‘Adventures’ in an MMO. And I hope Anet’s definition isn’t too different from mine, and that they just accidentally named some mini games ‘Adventures’.

And it’s in the Corruption line (the Mallyx line), Mallyx is preferably used with Mace, and Mace’s attack speed is pretty fast (3 auto-attacks in 1¼ seconds), making this trait even more useless, since you will reset it much faster…

Silverkey.2078:

Or it can be triggered as a weapon-swap (if you swap weapons, you switch to currently activated legend-skills, swap again, back to your weapon). It can be similar to death shroud, activated using the F1-F5 slots (F1= become the legend, F2=swap legend)…

I like that idea… will add it to the thread starter post. Thanks!

The weapons don’t work that tightly with the legend that you want to switch them together. I gave somewhere else the example that staff actually pairs very well with Jalis and hammer very well with Ventari. There is no reason to switch both at the same time except removing some of the flexibility the weapon switch brings back.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

That’ll ruin the class. Even plain old weapon swap would be 100x better than that.

While it would increase variety and solve some problems, it’d decrease flexibility. I guess you’re right, it’s not an optimal solution… The idea originates from the fact that the weapons seem to be designed to fit one particular legend each, so they probably could even increase flexibility if they made the weapons less legend-bound… but that’s a different topic and already has been mentionend a lot of times I guess.

Maybe the other person will return to playing GW2 tomorrow, invite new members and ‘rebuild’ her guild, how should Anet know? They can’t just take the guild’s name away from her, just because she’s inactive at the moment and you ask them to. She didn’t break any rules, as others have already stated.

Kotte.2460:

REV IS NOT GETTING WEAPON SWAP. so stop asking for it.

Yeah. And we will never have a wardrobe feature. And the Standard Edition of Heart of Thorns will never come with an extra character slot. Anet does never backpedal on previous decisions based on community feedback.

Seriosly dude, we’re not even asking for weapon swap, we’re just giving feedback on the Revenant, and most of us agree that it needs more diversity to fix some severe problems this profession has right now.
While weapon swap would be one of the easiest and smoothest ways to do this, we are also discussing other solutions here that could solve these problems without adding weapon swap. We’re open to all good new ideas.

If Revenant should really only have 5 skills per legend, you’d end up with 12 utility skills, 4 heals and 4 elites in total for all 4 legends. The other classes all have about 4 heals, 3 elites and 20 utilities, so it seems likely that 2 additional utility skills per legend will be added for balance reasons.
I guess the chances for some extra variety are pretty high here.
And if Anet really sticks to their no-weapon-swap decision, and does not want to add variety to the weapons, I can only hope that they’ll fix the problems by adding ‘kits’…
I’d still prefer weapon swap or ‘attunements’

Turkadactyl.5308:

But with this situation (2 weapon sets AND 2 utility sets) you have to deal with balancing the fact that you have 2 heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites available, whereas a guard, thief, etc. has 1, 3, and 1. Especially if ANet does add additional utility skill options for each legend (I’m certainly hoping they do), I worry that in order to balance it the rev utilities will either end up getting a massive nerf hammer or have really huge energy costs/high cooldowns.

I think this will happen to a certain degree anyway, since Rev always has access to 2 heals, 2 elites etc., even if he can only carry one weapon. Right now in return the Revenant is at least unable to choose these skills as freely as other classes do…

Turkadactyl.5308:

As for the range/melee locked issue that a lot of people are bringing up, I’m not sure I see it. Lots of folks “lock” themselves into melee especially as it is, and in fact a lot of meta builds require it. You ooc swap when you are going to have to fight at range (it’s not a big surprise when you fight the Shadow of the Dragon, for example). The solution here (and this is something folks have asked for for a LONG time) is a quick ooc weapon set swap with preset options (like GW1 had, but strictly out of combat).

Yeah, and exactly that is the big problem. Locking yourself by using meta builds has always been voluntary. Revenant is the first class that forces you to do so.
Bringing additional weapons to swap them out of combat has always been voluntary. Revenant is the first class that forces you to do so (at least if you want to be useful in ranged combat and usually use Mace/Axe…) .

Turkadactyl.5308:

There’s also been a lot here about how bad it is that the hammer “locks” you into range, and that’s a little bit misleading. Unlike the mesmer GS or ranger LB, there is no damage reduction to being in melee, and in fact tightly stacked players or NPCs means it’s easier to take advantage of piercing. I think another small tweak that could be made to the hammer in particular would be a small burst of spirit hammers at the point of impact to simulate a cleave, but then I would remove the piercing aspect.

Like I said somewhere else, I think being locked into range is far less problematic than being locked into melee, I didn’t test the Hammer myself, but I agree with you here.

Turkadactyl.5308:

The staff melee locking doesn’t look like an issue, either. Potentially auto-attacks could be tweaked into a sort of wide swing (slightly increase the range) to be more akin to the ele dagger, but healing in melee is actually better than ranged, since in many aspects of the game melee is preferred. In PvE you can do decent DPS while healing, and in a melee train in WvW you’ve got additional healing for the frontline without losing damage. Build with it as a bunker setup for PvP, and you’ll want to stay on point anyway. That being said, I would like to see at least 1 truly ranged skill, like the guard staff 2.

I agree with all of this. Of course healing can be much more effective when in melee. But that’s not really the problem, I think it’s great that the staff is a melee weapon, the problem I see is that you have no alternative to engage into ranged combat. If you face a boss that you do not want to get too close to, the best you can do is run around and heal everyone else.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

AzureSky.3175:

But what is absolutely problematic, is being locked into melee combat….

D/D Elementalist don’t agree with this.

I never played D/D, but if I did, I’d probably bring a Frost Bow to PvE, just in case :/
I mean, not everyone may like Frost Bow, but at least the option is there.

That’s how I use most of my chars (except for Ele and Ranger currently), I give them close combat weapons, and create my build around these close combat weapons. And then I add a ranged alternative weapon in the second weapon slot, just in case. They aren’t overwhelmingly awesome using these, since their builds are still centered around their close combat weapons (and I don’t change my builds often), but they’re okay :0

Again, PvE only of course…

I’d like to add that I don’t really think it’s too bad lacking melee weapons as long as you have a ranged weapon equipped (speaking of PvE only). There are few situations where you think “woah, I better switch to melee now or I’ll be in trouble”, the only one I can think of right now is projectile-reflecting enemies. But if I play on my Ranger for example, and I’m too lazy to swap to sword, I’ll just longbow enemies in the face if melee combat is required for stacking reasons etc, even if it’s less effective.
I have not yet tested Hammer on Revenant, can’t really say how broken it is in melee combat.

But what is absolutely problematic, is being locked into melee combat. You can always use ranged weapons in melee combat, but never melee weapons in ranged combat. And if you really have to keep your distance to an enemy, your only choice is to run around useless and wait for your 12 and 15 second CDs on #4 and #5 to pass, so you can use a skill once in a while…

stof.9341:

Well revenants can use the lightning hammer too :o

Then show me where I can get a lightning hammer when I’m in a dungeon with two warriors, a guard and a thief…

edit: Inb4 I should use a warrior banner for melee combat

Linnael.1069:

Yes because FGS is melee or high dps.

… lolwut

Yeah okay, not really melee, then conjure a Lightning Hammer if you want to, still not range locked :X

Linnael.1069:

If you play a staff ele and enter combat you will never be able to match a melee character in melee combat. Range locking isn’t a revenant only thing.

To be honest, I only do PvE, so I can’t really talk about PvP or WvW here.
But if I want to do some high melee DPS in PvE with my staff ele, I just conjure a Fiery Greatsword and burn through all the mobs.
I do not know if Fiery Greatsword can ‘match a melee character in melee combat’, but I am definitely NOT range locked.

What do you guys think about these solutions:

• Adding Utility Skills to legends, that provide something similar to Conjured weapons or Kits
• Completely switch legends with weapons: Legends determine your #1-#5 skills, weapons determine your #6-#0 skills (you can still swap legends but not weapons)

Of course the latter one would mean redesigning Revenant completely and would require a lot of creativity… but it’d make Revenant pretty unique in a way…

Thanks bearshaman, Fiddle Irk, Basaltface, Chrispy, Crise, Tora, GreyWraith and Lilyandra for the discussion and the constructive feedback so far! I updated the topic and included most of the suggestions you made.

About the ‘King Arthur + Excalibur / Robin Hood + bow’ thing… it is already possible for a Revenant to use Legends with completely unrelated weapons, like using a staff while having Mallyx and Jalis equipped. So I think you should either be allowed to swap weapons, since you can already mix up weapons and legends anyway, or the weapons should be tied so close to their legends, that swapping legends auto-swaps weapons (and vice versa). Both solutions would be fine with me.

stof.9341:

Note that the Revenant is the only class that can switch their skills #6-#0
Note that elementalists cannot switch from a melee form to a range form either with their atunement swaps.

I’m just going to assume that you didn’t read anything beyond the topic title, since there are answers to both of your statements in the very first post (I mentioned why switching #6-#0 skills does not make up for being unable to swap weapons in the Revenant’s case. I also mentioned the Elementalist’s Conjures).

That ol noob.7083:

Revs are still in beta. They may add stuff that will enable them to change stance skills later.

That’s why this thread even exists. Because Revs are still in beta and we are providing feedback on how to improve it with future changes.

Tora.7214:

while i do recognize reven needs some tweaks, im in favor of no weapon swap as long as they can have 2 utilities set in battle wich dont share CD and free of CD on demand elites. would be too op

Maybe this problem could be avoided if changing stances would drain a fair amount of energy?

Chrispy.5641:

Then the class would be the same as the Elementalist (and would end up with more weapon skills overall).
[…]It will have 30 possible weapon sets. Compare that to the Elementalist’s 24 possible weapon sets.
So, yeah, lets totally take away what makes the Elementalist unique for the latest and greatest thing.

I think Rev and Ele would still differ enough. While Rev would have more weapon sets than Ele in total, Ele could still use 4 of them in battle ( +1 skill set), while Rev can only use 2 ( +2 skill sets). So Ele has access to 25 different skills during battle, whereas Rev only has 20. And if an Ele decides to use conjured weapons, he’d even have access to up to 8 weapon sets (or 45 skills in total). So, compared to the Revenant, he’d still be far more diversive in my opinion. I think this idea isn’t that much worse than allowing weapon swap… I think both are okay

GreyWraith.8394:

If we kept the current system and added a bunch of optional utilities to the stances (some of which included ranged pulls/gap closers/etc then it could work.

To be honest, for me gap closers or ranged pulls wouldn’t be enough. I play PvE only, and I love melee, but there are times when I simply do not want to get close to an enemy. Maybe I’m a noob, but I usually switch to ranged weapons when fighting Lupi, the Statue of Dwayna, the Melandru Priest in Arah P4, I use ranged weapons while pulling the Dredged Powersuit in FotM, etc etc… due to bugginess, the Shadow of the Dragon in the Mystery Cave is almost impossible to kill if you don’t use ranged weapons :/ and I guess the Mordrem Teragriff Boss in Tangled Paths is pretty hard as well if you can’t use them…

UPDATE: Alright guys, now that weapon swap will be added to fix the Revenant, this thread has lost its purpose (or rather fulfilled its purpose?) and can be closed. I just wanted to thank you all for 3000+ views and 100+ responses, thanks for the discussions, all the useful feedback and the creative suggested solutions. I don’t know if Anet ever looked into this thread, but even if they didn’t, I think that it still did a good job in making people think about and form opinions on the subject.
Anet chose to let us swap weapons, so it is very very unlikely that any of our other ideas/solutions here will be added to the Revenant profession. As for the ongoing discussions, other threads are probably more suited to continue these than this one now.
Thank you all!
____________________________________
original post:

The anomaly of the Revenant

• Currently, six out of eight classes have the ability to swap weapons in combat
• The other two classes (Elementalist and Engineer) do not have this ability, because they naturally have a huge variety on their #1-#5 skill bar due to their class mechanics (Attunements + Conjures / Kits)
• The Revenant is the first class that completely lacks any possibility to change weapon skills in combat

Why the ability to switch between Legendary Stances does not justify the lack of weapon swapping at the moment

• On first glance, the ability to switch between Legendary Stances means a huge variety on the Revenants #6 – #0 skill bar, since they basically can use twice as many skills in combat there compared to all the other classes
• On the other hand though, the way these Legendary Stances are designed mean a lot less variety compared to all the other classes, since each Legend is completely tied to it’s five fixed skills with zero alternative options
• The advantages and disadvantages are in good balance here
• But since these advantages and disadvantages are in a good balance, there’s no reason at all to further disadvantage the Revenant by not allowing to swap weapons / not providing any way to change weapon skills!

The problem

• As soon as you decide to use Mace/Axe or Staff, no matter what Traits or Legendary Stance you use, you will never have any efficient way to engage in ranged combat
• Vice versa with Hammer
• The Revenant is the only class with this issue

Possible solutions

1. Allow weapon swap
2. Add Utility Skills to the legends, that provide something similar to Conjured Weapons or Kits
3. Completely change weapon skills depending on which stance you’re using (Elementalist-Attunement-style)
4. Only slightly change weapon skills depending on which stance you’re using (for example, Mace/Axe basically keeps it’s skills when changing from Mallyx to Jalis, but the skills lose their condition applying and get CC/protective effects instead, plus all skills turn into ranged versions of themselves)
5. Give us something like ‘Death Shroud’: Each legend allows us to swap between our weapon and five legend-based skills by pressing F2
6. Tie Legendary Stances to their respective weapons (so swapping stances auto-swaps your weapon, or swapping weapons auto-swaps your stance)
7. Completely switch legends with weapons: Legends determine your #1-#5 skills, weapons determine your #6-#0 skills (probably the biggest Revenant redesign of all possibilies, needs a lot of creativity)

edit: Updated regularly when useful new ideas get brought up

Also:

• Mesmer specialization gets shield
• Revenant specialization gets shield

Mind = blown?

Derigar.7810:

I’ve heard ZOOMING OUT works wonders.

This. /thread

Your inventory is full. Just in case you haven’t noticed.

Seera.5916:

The perceived value changed. The actual value of the Ultimate Package did not. No matter if you are new or a vet. ANet is being nice and letting players exchange editions based on changes in perceived value.

It’s why as soon as I noticed there was an uproar over the content of the editions, I held off on buying, because ANet might do something that would affect either actual or perceived value.

And we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the analogy.

That’s okay. At least it seems that we can finally agree on the change in perceived value for veterans. And since you even held off on buying because you expected that there may be a possibility of Anet changing perceived value, I guess we can end our discussion here. (:
I agree that extra gems or price reduction were bad ideas.
Anet refunding editions or character slots is the ideal solution. Let’s leave it at that.

Brother Grimm.5176:

You are asking the manufacturer of a product to refund your money when they altered the product to give you MORE than the original price included.

If you are asking to exchange the Ultimate for Standard with a credit for the difference, that’s not unreasonable, but asking for a price break for the SAME item that now contains more content is not (at least in my opinion).

They may be willing to refund your most recent character slot purchase, however.

I think that you are completely correct and agree on all of your points. But nobody is asking for extra gems anymore. Jim and me have both already been helped out by Anets awesome costumer support.

Seera.5916:

Where is this set of rules of what can and can’t happen with pre-purchases? I’d love to read it. There is no rule that states that pre-purchase incentives can’t change. There is definitely no law on it.

I don’t think there is one, and I don’t think that pre-purchase are really common either. But if you compare the concept of a pre-order to the concept of a pre-purchase, it’s just basic logic that the content of a thing you pre-purchase may not change, because it will definitely be unfair to at least some people. Example. You want to buy some noodles and really need a car. You can choose between two Editions.
Edition Alpha contains a cup of instant noodles for 1000$.
Edition Bravo contains a cup of instant noodles and a car for 10.000$.
Of course you choose Bravo, because you want a car. People start to prepurchase, and suddenly the company decides to add a free car of the same type to both Editions.
Edition Alpha now contains a cup of instant noodles and a car for 1000$
Edition Beta now contains a cup of instant noodles and two cars for 10.000$
What now? None of the editions content lost any value, there was only a free gift added to both of them. This would still be a screw over to all the people that bought Beta before the change.

And just so you don’t get a wrong idea, this is absolutely no comparison to what Anet did. Anet didn’t want to screw anyone over. I just try to point out that it is basic logic that pre-purchases must not change. I’ll accept being proven wrong if there will be any further price reductions or goodies added to Heart of Thorns before it gets released, or if you can show me any case of a pre-purchase in that one of these two things happened without allowing people to get a refund.

Seera.5916:

And again, you’re focusing on the differences while I was referencing their similarities.

Of course I do that, since there is no other way to show anyone that their comparison is not valid. I really fail to see any similarities, so I can’t even focus on them. You simply cannot compare buying something to pre-purchasing something, and if we cannot agree on that, then I guess our whole discussion about your car comparisons is futile anyway.

Seera.5916:

They didn’t remove anything from the Ultimate Package at all. They did not lessen it’s value either. His asking for more gems is crazy.

Correct. Thinking that way in the first moment when opening a thread is understandable in my opinion. Persisting on this would be wrong, yes. But he didn’t do that.

Seera.5916:

They gave an additional pre-purchase offer for veterans. What’s in the Ultimate vs what’s included in the pre-purchase offer are two different things.

It’s only two different things if you’re a new player, if you’re a veteran, the pre-purchase offer comes hand in hand with the respective edition, it’s tied to each other. You cannot buy HoT without the pre-purchase offer, you cannot get the pre-purchase offer without buying HoT.

Okay, this might be my last try: For him, and for me, it is just that something of high personal value (a first extra character slot) has been added to the Standard Edition, while something with no personal value (a second extra character slot) has been added to the Ultimate Edition. Even though the same things (things with the same objective value) have been added to both editions, things of completely different personal value have been added, a high personal value to Standard, no personal value to Ultimate. And this simply shifts our preference on what version to buy.
And this is all completely irrelevant to a person, that values the second extra character slot just as much as the first extra character slot, they’re just happy with the nice free bonus.
It’s not all about the objective value, but about the personal value. Some people love Rolex watches and are happy to pay thousands of dollars for them, because they have a high personal value to them. I don’t wear watches in general, so they don’t have any value to me and I wouldn’t buy them, even if I could afford them.

Seera.5916:

Pre-purchasing a game and buying a car both tend to require either knowledge that this is the perfect car/game for you or enough sweet deals added on to make you buy the car or pre-purchase the game. And not everyone falls for those sweet deals. And those sweet deals can change. And when they do change, the company is under no obligation to do anything about it. It’s those similarities that I’m pointing to, not their differences.

There may be sweet deals that change if you buy something. Everyone knows that.
There may be sweet deals if you pre-purchase, but they do NOT change. And what you buy does NOT change until you finally get what you pre-purchased. Otherwise you could pre-purchase my car and then I decide to remove the wheels and exchange the engine for a cup of instant noodles before I deliver it to you. But Anet (or ncsoft?) did change the deal for veterans, they changed the product that they pre-purchased, and thus it is completely acceptable if people want to cancel their deal and pre-purchase another version, or ask for different solutions. Pre-purchases may. not. change. until they are “delivered” (that’s why the free character slot for veterans isn’t advertised anywhere), and you can be absolutely sure that there will not be any other changing “sweet deals” until HoT is released.

Seera.5916:

He originally asked to be given gems in addition to the 4000 he bought with Ultimate to make up for the free character slot being added.

He asked to be given 400 additional gems, and he didn’t just pick a random amount here, but the exact amount that a person buying the Ultimate Edition, to whom the second character slot and the goodies from the Deluxe Edition are ‘worthless’, would need to break even and don’t feel like they made the worse deal now, that an extra character slot has been added to the Standard version.

What Anet appears to understand, but you do not seem to understand, is this:
If the only things of worth to a person are HoT, one character slot and gems, it looks like this:

• before:
  HoT = 45€
  Ultimate = HoT[45€] + one char slot[10€] + 4000 gems[50€] = 105€ of value for 100€
• now:
  (HoT + one char slot) = 45€
  Ultimate = (HoT + one char slot)[45€] + 4000 gems[50€] = 95€ of value for 100€

So the person would need 400 extra gems [5€] to get the 100€ of value for the 100€ he paid. This is, of course, only true for a person, that considers the Deluxe goodies and the second character slot as valueless. I can relate to this, because I was in this exact situation. A person thinking like that had a perfect deal in the Ultimate Edition before, but after the second character slot being added, the Standard Edition turns out to be the best choice for that person.
It’s all just a question of personal values.

But, of course, Anet couldn’t just give him 400 gems for free, otherwise they’d have to give them to everyone else as well. So, you are right, that idea wasn’t the perfect solution.
But the support found a solution that was acceptable for both sides, and so everything is fine now.

Seera.5916:

And he said if that wasn’t doable that he wanted to be refunded $25 but keep all of the goodies that the Ultimate version had.

That’s not a good solution, I agree with you on that.

Seera.5916:

And it’s not off topic as I was talking short term. Not long term.

It’s still off-topic since there’s a huge difference between buying a car and pre-purchasing a car. That whole paragraph you typed didn’t relate to the situation OP is talking about in any way.

Seera.5916:

The exact same thing! They did not remove anything. They added something to the deal for veterans for all editions. Yes, that something changed which version was the ideal for you. But that does not mean they took anything from you.

Nobody ever said that Anet took anything from them. The point is that everyone has to decide for himself which edition they want to buy. For me, the Ultimate Edition was clearly the best choice in the former versions. In the new versions though, the Standard Edition is the best choice. If they should suddenly decide to remove the free character slots again tomorrow, I’d switch back to the Ultimate Edition, because it would be the best choice for me again!

And they do not have to do anything for you. If they did, car companies would have a nice dilemma. I buy a car on June 30. On July 1st they start offering a better sale. If I had known there was going to be a better sale, I would have waited. I can’t take the car back and be guaranteed that the dealer will let me switch out the deals.
You gambled that there would not be a better deal in the future. You lost the gamble. Even those buying today are gambling that there won’t be a better deal in the future as well.

And this is just bullkitten and completely off-topic. Almost all consumer goods will be worth much less after you owned them for a certain amount of time. Almost every game published in 2015 will be available for half the price in 2017. Everyone knows that, nobody complains about that and nobody is “gambling” on that.
But this here is not a purchase, it’s a pre-purchase, and as such, a customer can expect that the product will not experience any significant content changes from what is advertised, and that the product will not experience any price reduction until the day it gets released. Trust me, Heart of Thornes will only start to get cheaper after it is released, so we don’t gamble on anything here.

I just got an e-mail from the GW2 support, they understood my problem and are willing to help me out. They’ll remove my Ultimate Edition and give me a refund, then I can buy the Standard Edition afterwards. So if anyone is in a similar situation – contact support and they’ll definitely help you out.
Thanks again for the awesome support!

So here’s an update on what happened so far! I contacted the Support – they understood my problem and are willing to help!

Here’s their response:

We’ll be glad to clarify the process for you.

If you decide to continue with the refund process, we’ll be removing the features that Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is giving to your account, however, your current progress and characters will remain intact. Once you have added the correct version of Heart of Thorns you will be getting the features included in the expansion.

Rest assure we are just going to disable the Heart of Thorns in your account and none of your core game will be affected.

The Support is awesome, and I can only recommend anyone that is having similar problems to contact them. They will help you out and find an individual solution.

Thank you so much, Anet, really.

Nightblade.8295:

anet- do you actually feel that base game is worth only those 800 gems you are giving veteran players in the form of a character slot?

Yes they do, and I think so, too. The game is three years old now, and it was on sale for 10$ for months. Look at other games that released in 2012, that kind of price drop is completely normal in the video game industry. By adding the base game to HoT, Anet gets rid of the outdated concept of letting new players buy all expansions seperately before they can enjoy the full game

Nightblade.8295:

PLEASE GIVE VETERAN PLAYERS A SUBSTANTIAL IN-GAME GIFT of:
/examples/
a) several thousands of gems;
b) a precursor of a choice (or even a legendary) (account bound on acquire to prevent market exploits);
c) BIG pile of materials of choice (saaaaay- a thousand lodestones of choice)..
any 2 of those should make us happy

…

-be reasonable in your wishes-

Obvious troll is obvious.

I’m on the same boat right now, I bought the Ultimate Edition because it was really a good deal if you needed a character slot and did some maths about the gems.

With the recent changes, the Ultimate Edition is only a good deal if you need two character slots. If you have no use for a second additional character slot though, the Ultimate Edition is just pure luxury, that I wouldn’t even have thought about buying if I had known beforehand, that the Standard Edition comes with an extra character slot.

I really don’t get why this is so hard to understand. Asking about a refund here is completely reasonable, nobody could’ve known that Anet would change the content of the different editions afterwards. Which is also the reason why probably everyone that bought the Ultimate Edition instantly unlocked the Mini and the Finisher and the Glider Skin. Because why should you fill your inventory with this stuff, if it’s account bound anyway? Excluding people from a refund because they unlocked Minis is bullkitten in my opinion.

I did that, thanks :)
I’m now waiting for a response, gonna update this thread then to let other people that might have the same problem know if it’s possible to change editions.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Bought-Ultimate-bc-Standard-had-no-char-slot

Some of you guys should really read this. It’s easily explained that it did make sense to buy the Ultimate Edition, even if all you needed was a character slot. I don’t know about dollar prices for gems, but if you wanted to buy HoT + a character slot + 4000 gems seperately in €-region, it’d cost you 105€. The Ultimate version was only 100€ and you even got all these bonus items on top. So the Ultimate Edition was the best deal of them all, even if you were only after the character slot. This has completely changed now since they announced that the 45€ version now includes a character slot, because a lot of people really don’t need two character slots (at least I don’t, 9 slots for 9 professions, each additional one is useless to me).

If I bought the Ultimate Edition before your announcement, that the Standard Edition would include an extra character slot, can I get a refund and switch to Standard Edition please?

I made my decision on which edition to buy, by comparing completely different versions from what we have now.
I could choose from:

• 45€ for Heart of Thorns
• 75€ for Heart of Thorns + character slot + bling bling
• 100€ for Heart of Throns + character slot + bling bling + 4000gems

So, what do I need if I already have 8 character slots for 8 professions? Yeah, a 9th one for the new Revenant profession.

The 45€ edition features no character slot, so I’d have to buy one and pay 55€ in total.
The 75€ edition comes with a character slot, but I don’t care for all the bling bling, so I’d basically pay +30€ just to have a character slot, which is a clear NOPE.
The 100€ edition includes 50€ worth of gems, 10€ worth of character slot, so all in all the 100€ include 60€ worth of gem store bonus stuff, which is like paying only 40€ for HoT, plus I get all the bling bling.
So, the 100€ edition seemed like the best deal to me, and I bought it on the first day.

But now you decided to add an additional character slot to the 45€ version… which is all I ever wanted right from the start… and if you had advertised it like that from the start, I wouldn’t even have thought about buying the 100€ version. It even seems like a worse deal to me now. 45€ is like 10€ for character slot, and 35€ for HoT. 100€ is 50€ for gems, 10€ for character slot and 40€ for HoT. All I get for the 5€ difference is bling bling I don’t care about, and would’ve never paid 5€ for. Then the prices would be equal again, which only means that I bought 4000gems for standard price although I didn’t even need them right now…
I just found out that the Ultimate Edition now includes two character slots, but seriously, Anet, I don’t even care. I only need 9, I’d never spent extra money to get a 10th one before a 10th profession was announced.

Okay, so again, the question is: Can I, and people that are in the same position as me, get a refund and switch to the Standard Edition?

I have not spent any of the 4000gems, I’ve consumed all the items I got (why should I keep them in my inventory?), that guild hall item thingy is still in my character’s inventory.

It would only be fair to let people choose again if they want to, since they basically had completely different products to choose from than there are now.

A ‘veteran’ buying the 50$ expansion gets:

• HoT
• 1 additional character slot

A new player buying the 50$ expansion gets:

• HoT
• the base game

No one would have ever raged, no one would have ever felt treated unfair, neither new players, nor veterans.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The name Ziem has that symbol over the letter i. That’s a special character in English.

But DarkMonk’s character name is not Zîem.

Gaile Gray.6029:

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

It was a limited time ‘sneak peek’ at things to come.

‘Breaking news! We’re releasing future items early for one day only! Through Friday, check the Gem Store each day this week for an exciting limited-time item! And don’t forget, our Lunar New Year items will only be on sale for a little while longer!’

So the wings (and anything else that comes up this week) will be back again.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/limited-time-special-items-in-the-gem-store-this-week/

Thank you for pointing that out, Shinjo.

Did you know that your German coworkers really kittened up the most important part about these news?
The German version of your announcement basically translates to ‘We have new items for you – but only for one day!’ – and I fell for it. Nobody could have even guessed that this is just a sneak peak.
Never again will I trust the kittening official translated version of your news.

When it comes to AP, the leaderboards merely tell you who has been playing for the longest time and completed most of the achievements that are unavailable now, who played GW1, and who is weird enough to try and reach AP limits on things like the Winter Wonderland Jumping Puzzle or Toypocalypse, even though these limits are clearly not designed to be reached. Having a lot of AP does not show that you are better than other players in anything. So these AP leaderboards mean nothing at all.

Another person having 100 AP more than you because of “exploited” monthlies… does not affect your gameplay at all. Not the slightest bit. So why even bother?

Thanathos.2063:

The only reason I can imagine is, that the achievements don’t state which skins exactly you already bought – if it’s at 6/18, it could be tier 1, 2 or 3, and they wouldn’t have a way to determine what it was.
18/18 or even “The Emperor” title would be something else, of course – but I bet most players would find it unfair if only those would get the skins.

Even if you have 18/18, there’s a total of 54 skins per race. Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, and all of these come in light, medium and heavy. So, if two people have the “The Emperor” title, they still might call completely different skins their own.