Guild Wars 2

Kimbald.2697:

Black Cat.1024:

Got it, thanks!
From your experience, how much uptime on swiftness and dodges in\out of combat? (With speedy kits)

I would have to time the actual seconds between sets of 2 dodges with invigorating speed.
I’m sure others have done that and could answer it without needing to test first.
My builds very rarely allow me to use 10 points in Alchemy, which is unusual for most engineer builds. Alchemy is our best defense line, but I use less common experiments.

The uptime of swiftness-vigor depends entirely on the kits you use:

- a grenade build for WvW tends to stay in grenades rather long, but as you’re max range you need the speed and dodges less.

- a HGH p/p grenade build will use the pistols a lot, they swap often but only use 1 kit of course at most (rest elixirs).

- a Flamethrower coupled with an Elixir gun will swap very very often, giving you full uptime. A few use Flamethrower for longer periods, which works very well in pve.

- med kit is an in and out swapping all the time if you want to get the most of it. That one is the summum of micro-managing kits. but if you do: it’s our best self heal available (turret best group heal).
Med kit coupled with ’on heal runes) and weapon swap sigils, and maybe might proc trait, gives you loads of effects just from healing…

- no stays in Tool Kit or bomb kit for whole fights I think. Here it simply depends if you use them alone or with other kits.

long rant just to say : ‘it depends…’

I understand. Seeing as this is my first try I would like to run this by you.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqal0pqbn1y3F1LJyoCdGoH5VdNiiKkffUMfsFA-jEyAYrASBAJBAJvioxWFLiGruGT5SEVbwLiWtQAjWAA-w
This is me trying to spec some mobility, With a DPS based build that relies on condition duration for the 2% more damage each condition. What would you change here? My play style is very mobile, being used to the thief, so I guess I’m sacrificing some damage. On the other hand, I’m used to being squishy as a worm, so dodging is something I know how to do.

Kimbald.2697:

Black Cat.1024:

Kimbald.2697:

My conclusion on the best mobility options for WvW and pve to a lesser extend:

1. rocket boots, simply love those
2. speedy kits, in and out of combat this shines since I Always use at least one damage kit.
3. Invigorating speed to couple with speedy kits. This one can be made up by other things (like shield and tool kit blocks etc…) that’s why I consider it the last of the 3.
Some wouldn’t live without it, mind you. I put it last as a personal playstyle choice.

And this brings me to another question!
Does “Invigorating Speed” stack with “Adrenal Implant”? Or does this just go by the vigor usage as it’s regeneration is higher?

they don’t stack…
Vigor overrides it indeed.
The only saving grace for the 30 point trait is that vigor is a removable boon, that that 50% trait is not. But to be honest: no one cares

Got it, thanks!
From your experience, how much uptime on swiftness and dodges in\out of combat? (With speedy kits)

Kimbald.2697:

My conclusion on the best mobility options for WvW and pve to a lesser extend:

1. rocket boots, simply love those
2. speedy kits, in and out of combat this shines since I Always use at least one damage kit.
3. Invigorating speed to couple with speedy kits. This one can be made up by other things (like shield and tool kit blocks etc…) that’s why I consider it the last of the 3.
Some wouldn’t live without it, mind you. I put it last as a personal playstyle choice.

And this brings me to another question!
Does “Invigorating Speed” stack with “Adrenal Implant”? Or does this just go by the vigor usage as it’s regeneration is higher?

Kimbald.2697:

Black Cat.1024:

You misunderstand me. I’m not asking if engineers are as mobile as thieves, because obviously ANet made thieves to be the most mobile class. This is not a comparison thread, just a question. How mobile is the engineer?
How do you utilize in combat mobility, and how do you utilize out of combat mobility?

was typing the more usefull answer as you replied already
I know my first post was too general for what you were asking, my bad.

Just read it, thanks!
This helps a lot. I’m looking for a alt character as playing one character gets repetitive. Also, in contrast to popular belief, the thief skill cap is actually pretty low, so I was looking for a character that I would be comfortable with mobility wise – because what I’m used to, and also has a larger skill cap. Obviously, the skill cap is what brought me here, haha.
So now I’m on a mobility search, and that’s what brought me here.

You misunderstand me. I’m not asking if engineers are as mobile as thieves, because obviously ANet made thieves to be the most mobile class. This is not a comparison thread, just a question. How mobile is the engineer?
How do you utilize in combat mobility, and how do you utilize out of combat mobility?

You can cross off situation 5 as these are single target DPS builds. Due to the higher damage output on D/D I’d say 1vs1 this would win. Situations 2-3 D/P would be better due to more survivability. Situation 4, I’d say D/P because of the AOE smoke field and combined with a blast in the field you would give your team stealth as well.

Pretty much a D/P setup and 30 in SA.
Oh, and practice

Hey guys, I’m Black Cat from the thief forum and I wanted your opinion on something.
From your WvW and PvE open world experience, how mobile are you? I’m not referring to perma-swiftness because I know it can be achieved with speedy kits, but rather micro management during combat, leaps (?) and such. Also, how much does 50% faster endurance regen give you? For example with the thief trait that gives you some endurance back after each dodge, we can dodge around 3 times in a row, 2 immediately and 1,1/2 a sec later.
So yeah, these are my questions, thanks!

Edit: P.S. From experience, how much does the 25% seed boost in combat help?

This is actually a pretty good idea

Rahar.9872:

Encountered this today. Just as a disclaimer, I’m not coming here to complain. It was one Thief, insignificant to the entire picture in WvW and I understand that, so don’t go jumping on my back, please. But I’d like to know if this is considered against the terms of service, since gaining stealth on walls is most likely not intended.

My personal opinion and guess is that it’s considered some form of exploit, since gaining a guaranteed stealth with every CnD is pretty cheap and almost guarantees a heavy advantage. I recall it being said somewhere, but a lot of things are said here.

So I’ll defer to you. What’s the answer here? Is there a specific quote from a developer, perhaps, that can clear this matter up for me? Is this a bannable offense that I should be reporting every time I see? Or something to simply ignore and move on?

This my friend, is smart tactics.
Seriously now, no, this is not a bannable offense, but rather smart usage of your terrain.

The traits look pretty inconsistent. What are you aiming for? Power? Steal group buffs?
You seem to be going into non damage trait lines and the traits you pick seem to be only healing and dodging based.

tanf.8917:

Black Cat.1024:

To be honest almost every thief build out there has a Sb alt weapon so no worries there.

True but lets say, how much more % will i use the bow as a thief compared to a ranger?
I like the weapon and would like to use it most of the time. On a single targets its better achievable by a ranger while on group mobs, with a thief.
I would like to use it as a main weapon of course, but now when i think about it its quite lacking on both profession, on a ranger in aoe aspect, and on a thief.. well.. i don’t know.. i might get flamed in dungeons if ill use mostly SB :<

Unless you run a zerg type Sb/Sb set, you will be using Sb mainly for crowd control and movement.

To be honest I have no idea how this build would fare in dungeons as most of my experience is in WvW. And personally I never AA, because you never know when that cast time and after cast time will be your downfall.
As for rotation I would start out with Spider Venom (5 poison attacks) – Shadow Strike (first poison and torment) – Steal (I don’t know if this will also apply Spider venom but will apply 10 sec poison because of “serpents touch”) – Cloak and Dagger (second poison) – (you’re in stealth now) – Sneak Attack (pistol stealth attack) and 3 of the 5 shots will poison as well as bleed) and now you’re left with around 11 initiative which is amazing. This is because you have 16 initiative traited, and get 3 on steal. Anyway this rotation looks like a typical “Start of encounter” scenario. Don’t forget that you also have caltrops on dodge will will bleed your opponent.

To be honest almost every thief build out there has a Sb alt weapon so no worries there.

Hey WB!
It looks like you’ve built a pretty hybrid build to be honest.
It has a lot of damage based, with some stealth with some condi which is cool if you like it.
But if you’re looking for a more condi type build I would switch the D/P into P/D first of all. Main hand pistol gives you much more conditions than a dagger, and generally a D/P build is a more of Stealth/Survivability/WvW build.
As thieves, most of our conditions come from"Venoms" – the utility skills. So I would play that angle too. how about something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlYmCNXay9E/5EhnivKWtHy0mxsTBXvKA
I didn’t fill in any gear, only traits and weapon setup, but check it out

I actually have a great idea!
Lets add a cooldown on all skills and keep the initiative system!

Burnfall.9573:

Black Cat.1024:

Burnfall.9573:

Black Teagan.9215:

Black Cat.1024:

Thiefs in general are OP, didn’t you know?
They’re practically godmode.

GW2 is OP

I know you’re being Sarcastic, but honestly.. Arena>net should really put Thief Class under heavy Re-evaluation.

You’re right, maybe they should make revealed 10 secs and up base hp to 20k, wait…. warrior?

As one voice of the remaining community, we would gladly Welcome that.. in exchange for thief class ‘in a heartbeat’..

Apparently, as a"thief" class does exist, and your ideas don’t, ArenaNet is on “our side” of things. Maybe quit?

Burnfall.9573:

Black Teagan.9215:

Black Cat.1024:

Thiefs in general are OP, didn’t you know?
They’re practically godmode.

GW2 is OP

I know you’re being Sarcastic, but honestly.. Arena>net should really put Thief Class under heavy Re-evaluation.

You’re right, maybe they should make revealed 10 secs and up base hp to 20k, wait…. warrior?

Burnfall.9573:

To Arena. Net

Before I begin, this thread isn’t about “Complaining” or “Trolling”, it is about Thief Class Behaving akittens Worst; resulting in inducing Seveer Tyranny and Oppression among the other classes and its Devoted Players.

We can all agree that there are no Rules for “Playing Games A.K.A Stealth and Hide and Seek” in Guild Wars 2 but there comes a time where a Line must be drawn and Enforced; no matter what’- in Not Resulting in Non-Deserving Rewards.

And when that drawn line is Broken, Heavy Punishments and Severe Consequences Must be Initiated.

Unfortunately, there is no denying that this class Have Not been Diciplined for any of their Actions, instead, they are Rewarded for their Malicious and Sadistic Crimes.

Ok, enough of this, here goes my 20 Questions for The Parent of the Classes; Arena.Net.

---

1. Thief Class is Guilty of Intionally Inflicting Irony, Tyranny and Unfair Play Mechanics to the Masses of your Devoted Hardcore and your Casual Players.

When are you going to Put a Stop to it, Once and For All?

2 . Nearly 1 Year into Guild Wars 2 Anniversary., yet No Signs of Interest in Resolving this Matter from you Arena net.

Is there a Valid Reasson why Thief class haven’t been Disciplined and Punishished for crossing the Line?

3. As we all know, Thief is the only class who Posssesses the most Exceeding Skills, Traits lines, Stengths, Powers, Mobilities, Speed, Stealth-Perma-Stealth, Invulnerability, Escapability, Reversing Time and Immunity to conditions in all Class Combined.

What are your Justifications in Intentionally Allowing this Class Overpowerdness Mechanics Overbearing Madness in Guild Wars 2 World?

4. Not only Thief Class is Guilty of causing Irony and Unfair Play Mechanics but they are Guilty of making Guild Wars 2, -Non-Enjoyable, Stressful, Unsafe and having no Desire to Pariticipate in the Wonderfulness that Guild Wars 2 World offers.

-Many have Entirely Quit Guild Wars 2 due to this class of Robbing thier Pride, Joy, Great Work/Effort and Valuable/Precious/Devoted Time adn Energy into Guild Wars 2 World due to Theif Injustice Practises.

As the Parent of the Classes, If Any, what Steps are you taking to make Guild Wars 2 World Fun, Equally Enjoyable Competitve and Safe (instad of being Instantly Killed by 1-5 stabs) ?

As the saying goes, “No Crimes Go Un-Punished”, well Unfortunately, only in Guild Wars 2, you will find 1 Class who who is given Free Priveldge to committ many Unjust Crimes on Demand; due to being given 110% Power and Full Control without having any Punishments or Consequences whatsoever.

5. If any, What are the chances in Saving your Faithful, Committed and Devoted Guild Wars 2 players from this Class Madness?

6. If any, if you do consider in Saving us, what are our Assurance; that this Unjustice Unfair Madness from Ever Happening Again for the the duration of Guild Wars 2 World?

7. Lastly, I Hope you choose the side of Justice, Peace and Fairness For All..
For The Sake of Guild Wars 2 World.

Would that be an Option for you Arena.Net?

8. I Do Look Forward in Guild Wars 2 World Success and a Very Long Duration.
Yet
It all lies in your hands as the Parent of the Classes..

Will you take the Consideration at least in Resolving this serious critical matter as soon as possible?

My Hope, is for you to make it happen, Once and for All; as the saying goes, "putting the final nail in the coffin)

Lastly,

Remind Thief Class who is Control of Guild Wars 2 World..

Until than, we all await your next move…

(With all Sincerity, Humiity and Respect, I look forward in you Arena. Ner in responding to this Crucial Concern Matter)

Thank You! in Advance.

Aww, would you like a lollipop?
Instead of complaining just go practice, most WvW thiefs are at 11k health anyway. So it shouldn’t be too hard for a greatsword warrior to #2 him once, should it?

What do you play? I’ve seen tons of S/D builds in PvP.
What do you play the most, WvW, PvP, PvE ?

Just wondering if anyone tried it, does Sigil of Fire work on Cluster Bomb shells? (After you press #2 again)
I would try it myself but I’m too lazy and not at home

Zergs.9715:

Black Cat.1024:

Why go into deadly arts? If this is for WvW I’d drop those points and put them in acro or trick

Excellent question to which I have no valid answer tbh. Obviously the build will fulfill PVE and WvW role since, after I fully gear it, have no intention of changing anything. In a light of this revelation I present you modified build

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1c.h14.a.1g.h1|0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j|2s.d1a.2s.d1a.3s.d1a.3s.d1a.2s.d1a.1g.67|0.u36b.u46b.a2.0|2e.7|57.5b.5c.5h.5w|e

This definitely looks better
I’d drop “Power of Inertia” for the 50% more speed in stealth as you’re in 30 in SA and without the 15 in acro the might doesn’t help much and you blow dodges just to stack it.

Just give as a viable way that would make us want to go into DA and not kill ourselves.

Awesome comments
In general, not regarding weapon names, I’d like to see a more viable DPS build that will work in WvW and is not stealth based. S/P is terrible in WvW because of the “rooting” aspect of “Pistol Whip” an S/D is amazing in PvP but pretty uncommon in WvW.
Thats why I’d like to see a long range weapon (rifle\longbow) that would focus on dps and less on stealth.
A melee staff could also work, but how?

Nice vid!
Maybe next time you should try synergizing the more psychological aspect aspect of the Thief/Mesmer duo.
Both are very psychological classes in WvW and PvP – Mesmer having clones and Thief having stealth. Meaning, so maybe try to play on the “confuse” and letting the thief going in for a burst. Not confusion the condition but actual confusion in not knowing where the thief is and which “clone” is really the mesmer. Diversion tactics and such, could be a nice idea.

I’d love to see burn on a thief personally. But first of all this would not make P/P viable as “Unload” is a pure single target DPS. So in terms of viability “Body Shot” actually synergizes better for dps builds so this could only help P/D condi builds. The evade on the other hand may be the very thing we need on P/P.
Thiefs in general have a problem which is also a class mechanic which is the dual skill. This makes it very hard to actually come up with a complete set of synergy weapon builds. D/D for example is pure DPS but the dual skill is condi.. So on a P/D set “body Shot” doesn’t synergize well because the dual skill and the #1 skill does condi, while the number 2 skill is more dps based. On the other hand a P/P build is DPS so to make it viable they need to add more on that aspect.
We’re a problematic class.

It pretty much depends on what you’re running.. Eng’is have always been a bit tough because of their massive AOE condis, so a stealth-based backstab thief would have a hard time.
Pretty much the only “safe” playstyles we have against them are a S/X, Infil-step in atack – out, probably S/D ; or a long ranged playstyle such as P/P, or SB. P/D could also work but they’re pretty much exclusive for codi thiefs and would do less damage.

Thiefs in general are OP, didn’t you know?
They’re practically godmode.

“Blind is OP”
/15char

Why go into deadly arts? If this is for WvW I’d drop those points and put them in acro or trick

How do I find out what tier my server is?

Rain is awesome. +1

I would definitely recommend Yishis’s Build and playstyle because he does an amazing D/P.
This is his vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRcTKt47ixk
His actual build is in the youtube description. I think is goes something like 0/20/30/20/0 so you’ll have the 30 in SA. As you’ll see you don’t have to have full bezerkers to play WvW thief (A lot of people here think that). He plays Valkyrie and Knight if I’m not mistaken in this build.
He also provides commentary about his play style and why he does certain stuff. It’s really interesting and extremely informative.

What new weapon sets would you like to see and why?

Personally, thinking along the lines of the “Thief Psychology” I’m thinking maybe a Longbow or a Rifle. It kind of goes along with the regular “rouge” you see in many MMO’s with an “Assassin’s Shot” or what not. The point is that it’s something long ranged (1200) and not only shortbow range (900).
Also getting another offhand weapon would be nice. I was thinking maybe a sword but although that would be really cool (watching people running around doing D/S or P/S builds) I don’t know if it really suits the thief but yeah. I know that tons of people would love to see a greatsword on a thief but I can’t really see that happening.
A focus could also be pretty cool, maybe adding some team buffs for more party thiefs (something along the lines of “Veil” – a mesmer skill that creates a wall that stealths everyone who runs through it).

What do you guys think?

This would make P/P the new OP haha.
I would like to see a GM trait that makes Steal an initiative based trait. Not too OP, maybe 9-10 initiative.

What happens when you Mug while having the trait Hidden Killer? (In stealth of course)

infantrydiv.1620:

EnderzShadow.2506:

I am not a great keybinder. I do not have the fastest reactions. Realizing those weaknesses, If I don’t have fast reactions and know my keybinds in a blink, am I going to completely suck on this class in WvW?

I know everyone likes to spout how pro they are. I don’t care really. I want to get honest opinions before I invest a lot of time into a new class—namely the thief.

2nd question, are there more forgiving and easier to play builds? I ask because I see posts like Jumpers, and how he has a build he reccomends, but people comment how high the skill cap is.

I’m thinking, maybe I can start easy and learn the simpler builds and go from there.

What do you guys think?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I’m pretty average. Thief requires faster reaction times than a lot of other classes. If you are talking about WvW roaming, then thief can wreck people whose builds are not meant for fighting alone or in small fights. However you will have to spend a lot of time practicing to fight against other roamers efficiently.

If you want to try out thief, I’d recommend starting out with Bemeric1’s stealth based Dagger/Pistol build for WvW roaming.

+1
His build definitely is a good way to start, lots of survivability with stealth, AOE blind and daze. It’s also pretty tanky with 30 toughness and 20 vit.
It also gives you a second to think what to do, or run away.
Here’s his vid – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRcTKt47ixk

HatSimulator.9362:

D/D condition?

Just get some rabid gear or something, 4 daggers, 2 with sigil of energy and spawm dodges and caltraps and d/d 3 over and over.

What this guy said.
D/D doesn’t really synergize with conditions.
Skill #3 is the kitten child of the set.
Maybe try a main hand pistol?

NemoVonUtopia.4183:

It really depends on what stats ou want. The Armageddon set is easy to get but you can only get soldiers, rabid, or magi stats, which are not too great of thieves IMO. If you have leather worker 400 and the right mats/money then crafting a set is a good way to get what you want.

Thanks

I chose the Vigil with my main, is it possible for me to get the Order of Whispers armor some way?

So, after reaching 80 on my main, I was wondering where should I go to buy\find armor?
I saw the Armageddon set, and I was thinking if it was worth it?

10% daze on a #1 skill? Are you serious?

So likewise, is i manage a CND on a stealthed thief, ill become stealthed?

Pistol is not trash – played right pistol can do amazing in WvW and even in PvE – Survivability is the name of the game, it just doesn’t synergize well, if it did, it would be kitten awesome. Very nice vid.

I don’t know if I agree with ranger being an OP roaming class…
But, I can see them working together.
A better duo would be a thief and necro, or maybe a thief and a engineer – classes that can do massive AOE conditions and heals away from himself as thief in WvW is usually pure DPS stealth built.
Along with condis a duo like that could be amazingly effective.

If, as a thief who is not stealthed, attacks a thief who is stealthed – will my #1 dagger attack change icons in the chain of attack if i hit him?

SeeBeyond.1486:

as many have said before, rather have venoms in the F2+ slots

As fun as this sounds, it would defeat the whole purpose of a “thief” and he would just become a “Conditioner”. People who wouldn’t want to spec condi damage would have to, etc.

TheAmpca.1753:

Zepidel.5349:

TheAmpca.1753:

Anelyn.4593:

You can already see numbers on your screen if you hit a stealthed character, as well as bleed / poison / burning ticks.

Since you can already see these kinds of numbers it wouldn’t defeat the purpose of it at all, it would just give you confirmation that you are actually hurting him whereas now if you hit him you don’t know if you just did 1 or 50% of his max hp and would make it feel less frustrating like you aren’t actually doing something.

Thieves are made out of paper, if you put a big HERE I AM! sign ontop of them wile stealthed they will get wrekt by any competent player that actually has a brain (uses AoE/non target abilities were the HP bar is)

Maybe Give thieves the same base HP as Necros or Mesmers? lol

I think people don’t know which bar I am talking about. I mean the one you have at the very top of your screen that shows the hp of your intended target.

That would defeat the purpose as well. Imagine laying a poison combo field, then seeing that a thief has poison on him. He is not invisible anymore, and with some experience, every player will know where every thief is, all the time, would just become a dead mechanic.

I didn’t get it

It doesn’t look consistent enough, apart from the steal spam, which happens every 19.75 secs, what do you do?
It looks like a backstab build that doesn’t have enough power or movement to support it.
You speced steal for what reason?