Guild Wars 2

Meanwhile a well specd rev will hit 18k x2 with 1 coalescence

Dead on.

Reza.9046:

Are guardians considered to be a “free easy kill” as everyone says?

Yes this is extremely accurate. DH will always be target priority since theyre absolutely easy to destroy within 10s regardless of their cds.

Dh wins vs revs btw

Slein Jinn.8173:

It’s not ArenaNet’s fault that Zero Counterplay decided to field a team composition that didn’t have the tools to recover from a single capped node. Zero Counterplay decided to field a team of 2x Mesmer, 2x Revenant, 1x Tempest into an equally bunker-heavy team, and it didn’t work, but they made their bed, and they should have to lie in it. Yeah, they didn’t really have any realistic path to victory at that point, but that’s their fault for fielding a team composition where literally the only win condition is to stalemate all three nodes from the start.

Look at the EU scene. The only teams trying to field triple-bunker teams like that got beaten handily by teams that brought more firepower. You can’t deliberately field a team with fewer damage dealers than GW2 PvP has ever seen, and then complain when you can’t kill anything.

Imagine a football match where one team uses all their substitutions to replace attacking players with defensive players. If the other team then manages to score and take the lead, that team would be given HUGE penalties if they just said “well, we can’t win now, because we don’t have any goalscorers on the pitch and we’re losing” and just walked off the pitch. You can’t field a team with no forwards and then blame FIFA when your team can’t score goals.

That’s what Zero Counterplay did. They made decisions that gave themselves no win condition, then when they started to lose, they ragequit. It is ridiculously unprofessional, and they absolutely should be sanctioned by ArenaNet in some fashion, whether that’s a fine, a forfeiture of participation in future seasons, or whatever.

technically we didn’t even run bunker mesmers and had the most DPS comp with the exception of maybe abjured (if you argue engi > viper mes). We had dps oriented cele mesmer, viper mesmer, viper rev, viper rev, and tempest. Tempest was technically the most tanky spec on our team.
and it’s likely we’re going to lose 10% of our prize money due to a major penalty point as defined by the rules btw.

Ithilwen.1529:

I feel anet has an issue with Mesmers and will make targetted attacks until we’re trash tier again. I’m pretty upset about this patch.

lol

Eurantien.4632:

It was a 4 man queue, where 3/4 lost 1 pip and got dishonored and the 4th did not get any dishonor and gained 2 pips. The 5th (a solo queue) also lost a pip. Despite the fact that we won.

probably still counted as a forfeit for them

Salamander.2504:

Dale Rojo.7485:

Salamander.2504:

Wait what? Why are you guys jumping all over Matisse and Wolf Shadow for being “jealous?” They aren’t jealous; they’re correctly pointing out that rage-quitting is unsportmanlike. Geez…

This isn’t rage-quitting though. They ended a game prematurely that was over already. There was NO POINT to playing out that match. It was a wash. They should have been applauded for bringing the biggest issue to the table rather than accused for something they didn’t do.

IdrA is rage-quitting. Hungrybox in his jigglypuff mirror match against MaNg0 is rage-quitting. Kurt Russell playing chess against the computer is rage-quitting. What they all had in common is that they were winnable scenarios but the players decided to go with their emotional “easy outs”.

Zero Counterplay didn’t rage-quit, it was only one player that quit. That player should be applauded for saving time, bringing to light the huge problems of PvP, and ultimately ending a match that was decided already and putting the castors in an uncomfortable position after those castors stated THE GAME WAS ALREADY OVER AFTER THE FIRST CAP.

This argument implies that no decaps occurred at all during the ESL’s yesterday.

But they did.

Sugar-coat it all you want, rage-quitting is unsportmanlike.

Was there a single exception on any map where the team who got the first cap didn’t win the game?
Didn’t think so

Thobek.1730:

omg I really want to hear from the members of zero counterplay about the current state of the games… I can imagine it’ll be full of kittens.

it’s garbage

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Booms.3952:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

warbignime.4610:

You do realize that csgo is fps and doesnt require much work to be balance right?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

LOL.

You’ve never played Counterstrike, have you?

Yes fixing damage modifiers on 1 gun is much harder to do than change 20-50 skills and traits and mechanics to balance the game without killing certain builds

And yes I play cs

Thank you for proving my point that you have no idea how balancing works.

I think we all understand a 850$ mini awp that wins every fight by prefiring body shots is op and needs a dmg nerf but when bunker Mesmer is op do you remove the stability of remove cleanses or remove precog or remove feedback trait or nerf protection or nerf blurred or nerf chaos fields or nerf alacrity or nerf durability runes because the wrong thing may destroy all mesmers

I wanted a class with a high skill cap.. Little did I know…

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

warbignime.4610:

You do realize that csgo is fps and doesnt require much work to be balance right?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

LOL.

You’ve never played Counterstrike, have you?

Yes fixing damage modifiers on 1 gun is much harder to do than change 20-50 skills and traits and mechanics to balance the game without killing certain builds

And yes I play cs

the equivelant of the R8 would be like a 4s CD skill that does 10k damage and cc’s you for 2 seconds with a low cast time rofl

Ryan.9387:

Booms.3952:

So your guys’ suggestion is that diamond players get 2 hour q times, only to face the exact same people due to long q time diversification?
Nice

I suggest a reset to their rank and pvp meta achievement.

So their effort in abusing the challenger leaderboard would be wasted.

Then they 5q their ways to ruby within a day because there’s actually players at that rank now. Followed by 2 hour qs in diamond for a few more days until theyre at where they are now. Yay.

Soul.2834:

People are mad and disgusted about pro players who are blatantly match making. Even if their excuse is to make queue timers go faster that is still a bannable offense. Once GW1 started dying there was literally no other way to play HA without alt accounts and playing your buddies even for fun. A bunch of my friends got banned for this match manipulation just so they could play, not even abusing any system, like the top players are now. It’s ‘disgusting’ that they can get away with it and not even get a slap on the wrist. If it was anything like before it would be a perma ban.

Sorry, when did we discover (or pull out of our assess) that people are manipulating enemy teams?

So your guys’ suggestion is that diamond players get 2 hour q times, only to face the exact same people due to long q time diversification?
Nice

Dethl.2875:

Kashe.3089:

Dethl.2875:

guys i got top treb hits can i have my pips back

Yeah yeah, I should have made it more clear that I meant stats other than total points..

What about total time spent on an actual point? Coupled with a basic kill/death ratio? If I could see the data of every match, I bet it would be pretty clear who was helping and who was hurting the team…

And bonus, MMR tankers would obviously not be eligible.

Technically, treb gives both points (10 per hit?), and has 3 different top stat catagories (top treb hits, most treb repairs, most treb’s destroyed). Similar issue on most maps (beasts on khylo, communes on temple, lord kills on foefire). With that system, you could see more “baddies” decide that a bad score means he should go commune a bunch of side buffs on temple, or rush beasts incessantly, etc.
If those were removed/discounted, maybe it would be okay? It adds complication to the system, which is one of those things ArenaNet seems to dislike. Same goes for k/d ratios and such, probably never going to happen for fear of toxicity.

3 per enemy hit. best way to farm personal score imo

q up with 2 friends and farm them. it’s hard to carry as a soloqr sometimes but with the current players in emerald-ruby a 3q will win everything.

Arcade.8901:

Booms.3952:

I don’t get it what are people doing that is “disgusting”?
Diamond players are getting 1hour + q times where they will win vs every single team in the entire region who is qing at that time unless another full diamond premade (very unlikely) is qing. So they pick up a bad player from the mists to artificially lower their mmr. It’s not like this bad player from the mists is good at all. They’re basically carrying him 4v5 vs sapphires.

Man people are just so mad at everything right now and it’s probably because they think they should all be legendaries but can’t soloq themselves out of emerald.

Loled hard, you just now confirmed the fact that you are part of the problem. Poor lad, with que times of 1 hour, who farmed the kitten out of league artificially lowering mmr by screwing others.

Somehow your post made me hate you entitled brats even more, atleast on EU some pro players have guts to call the system flawed and go through the same nightmare soloqers went through to back it up.

I duoq and trioq 95% of the time with teammates and rarely play more than 7-8 games a day. I’m ranked sapphire right now as are my mates though some are ruby. Is it fair to the people we face that we destroy almost every team despite being in a trioq because I haven’t farmed enough to get my mmr to diamond?

@others
Where in the code of conduct or any point ever has anet even HINTED at the IDEA that you shouldn’t be able to queue with whoever you want? kitten if I want to carry some horribad player 4v5 they should let me. The match attempts to set up an even game. Surely if they got the 5 best players online vs the 4 man premade + amber there would be a decent game. If not then should they just not play the game at all? Man you guys don’t even think about what you’re saying before you say it.

I don’t get it what are people doing that is “disgusting”?
Diamond players are getting 1hour + q times where they will win vs every single team in the entire region who is qing at that time unless another full diamond premade (very unlikely) is qing. So they pick up a bad player from the mists to artificially lower their mmr. It’s not like this bad player from the mists is good at all. They’re basically carrying him 4v5 vs sapphires.
I’m just not sure how this is “match manipulation” as some not so intelligent people are calling it. Map manipulation is when you purposely throw games or make a deal with the other team so that one team gets a free win. Map manipulation is NOT picking up a baddy and carrying him so you can lower your mmr and get lower q times.

Regarding the leaderboards, how do you know pro teams aren’t just qing with several different team names? My team has like 10 different team names for the same roster we could q with, though we mostly just use one. Sure its apparent PZ and abjured are purposely getting high on the leaderboards on several teams, but that literally affects NOTHING about every other person in the game except the little banners in the mists all having an upsidedown unicorn. How is it their fault anet decided to make it possible to make 20 teams with the exact same roster and then all show up on the boards rofl?

Man people are just so mad at everything right now and it’s probably because they think they should all be legendaries but can’t soloq themselves out of emerald.

cakeonroof.7385:

Bjarkov.9751:

Hmmm, i agree with you when talking solo queue, but if you either have a guild or or at least a friend or two to play with, it really makes a huge difference. Also it gets a lot easier once you get out of amber division, and move up in sapphire and emerald, you can really feel that players are more experienced than in amber league, which also makes solo queue easier and basically more fun to play.

Funny you say that about emerald and sapph because a lot of really really good players are stuck there.

I honestly doubt that. I duoqd all day yesterday in sapphire and got 16/17 win rate. No good player should be stuck in those ranks atm

Honestly I wish we could form a pact in NA to agree to never use bunker mes and only 1 revenant. But of course no one will do that since its unofficial and there’s so much money up for grabs

Last night was playing with Zero and he got no pips despite our team winning 500-30 because we had him go far on bunker mes and hold indefinite decap (thus 0 personal score). This intended or what? I mean when you push meta towards every class running cele or tanky condi II only assume you want some people to afk on bunkers to win.
Plx fix

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

After watching Zoose from the NA side, I can definately see the potential for DH to make big plays. It may have a lot lacking but if it can stay alive it can still put good AOE damage.

He straight turned around Forest to take a map from abjured with his double kill.

Zoose #1 guard NA confirmed?

He was on DH for the sole reason of countering the thief. Ok so great, we can maybe (maybe) run DH vs abjured and EZ PZ and never in EU. that’s awesome.

This would be huge enough to probably make dh more viable in top tier. Also should seriously just be done already being interrupted casting virtue of courage and it going on full 65s CD = instant loss and its just stupid. Losing vs lucky fear marks while leaping is even stupider. And ofc I have to land a 1s cast time ground target to peel for revenant who are flying around with superspeed and permanently evades with a tiny radius skill. Stupid af.

Gav.1425:

If anything, the problem is that ranked queue is off.

If you’re high MMR and you’re stuck in unranked, you get low MMR players on your team. —> Lose

If you’re low MMR and ranked queue is down, you get high MMR players on the opposing team. —> Lose

I made this observation after ~5 unranked matches, so it’s probably accurate.

Personally, after the crappy unranked conquest matches, I switched to stronghold and I farmed the hell out of it last night. Only losses are 4v5s and premades.

We should all be talking about the lack of a solo queue and the lack of temporary pvp bans for leavers. Dishonor in the game is not even noticeable. The 1% of players who are leavers ruin the game for the other 99% and they need to get shut down.

One d/c? 0-5 minute pvp lockout. Two d/c? 30-45 min lockout. Three d/c? 60-120 min lockout. A history of d/c? Double the lockout duration. If you don’t want to be there—don’t queue.

I don’t really have a problem as a high mmr player in soloqs. Still win 70% ish which is expected. I think the reason you won so many stronghold matches is because the players in that are extremely bad. Like worse than hotjoiners.

Revs actually have a pretty decent matchup for this. On power just use your shiro roll skill (name??) To cleanse off long chills and use infused for heavy bombs. Dodge spam when he’s in staff and block in reaper. Land staff 5 when he has no stab off CD and deeps when he’s using weapon swap (D or sc)

Rain.9213:

DH does have a lot of counter play and I think it’s actually pretty balanced but I’ve said it many times in this forum and I’ll say it again. The only real issue, I think, is the unblockable daze trait on trap activation. It’s so ridiculously strong against melee players. I really think the daze should be applied baseline to one of the traps(I’m thinking the one that stun breaks), and the daze portion of the trait should be replaced with Hunter’s Determination so that when you’re cc’d you still drop a trap. Then you can replace the Hunter’s Determination trait in the Master line for 25% movement speed increase.

See, like that both parties win. DH suddenly isn’t kitten full melee classes anymore by interrupting their blocks so easily and Guardians also get something they’ve been wanting forever.

How does nerfing something that’s not broken and adding something that’s irrelevant make anyone at all happy?

Disable effect LOD in graphics setttings to fix this

Azukas.1426:

lighter.2708:

brannigan.9831:

I can’t take it anymore. The class has such a narrow scope to be successful in spvp and the few morons left playing the class refuse to fulfill that role 90% of the time. They just want to 1v1 and die over and over again. Please boost them so some people with a clue come back.

exactly, there’s so many thieves yet there’s very few that’s actually good at 5v5 and know what they should do. i can basically count all the top thieves with only one hand even pre HOT.

Alright start naming

Toker Edison caed muffinz bam
For NA ofc

StickerHappy.8052:

Booms.3952:

ranger signets > guardian signets
thief signets > guardian signets
necro signets> guardian signets
warrior signets > guardian signets
mesmer signets > guardian signets
elementalist signets > guardian signets

OMG guardian signets so bad BUFFF GUARD

dh traps > ranger traps

omg NVM GUARD traps so OP NERF1?!!?!1!111

Ranger signets > guardian signets?

You gotta be kidding me.

You got a 30 second stun breaker signet. untraited
You got a Knockdown signet too. 3 freaking seconds.
You have an immob signet too.

Signet of stone? 60 freaking seconds dude.

r u KIDDING ME
how can you complain about bane signet when engineers have PERSON BATTERY RAM.
its on a 25 freaking second cooldown. that’s ltierally like half of bane signet. and it LAUCNEHS not justknocks down. r u srs. it works on downed bodys too?
insane. nerf.

ranger signets > guardian signets
thief signets > guardian signets
necro signets> guardian signets
warrior signets > guardian signets
mesmer signets > guardian signets
elementalist signets > guardian signets

OMG guardian signets so bad BUFFF GUARD

dh traps > ranger traps

omg NVM GUARD traps so OP NERF1?!!?!1!111

Morwath.9817:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Checked the code, it appears to be effectively random.

Does that mean, close match (e.g. 480-490) may be decided randomly? For example WTS match?

Booms.3952:

Not possible with computers man

I believe it’s possible because of computers. Lets use such scenario as example:
We got two Warriors who attack each other on range with Rifle/LB autos, then change their weapons to Swords 1 second before they connect and they have set Sever Artery on auto. If they meet exacly on Svarnir and keep autoing without any disengages etc, won’t their autos and bleed application occur exacly at same time for entire encouncer, because computer auto attacks for them with exacly same auto attack speed?

I’m just saying it will never be “exactly” the same. One hit is gonna have its damage calculated before the other end if its in micro seconds

Morwath.9817:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

They may actually tick at different times. When you apply a bleed, you see what is on your screen and the damage from your condi, but the total stacks may be different.
And if I apply a bleed say 0.5 seconds after you did. They would have different 1 second timer intervals.

…and what if they were applied in exacly the same time?

Not possible with computers man

Vegito.3048:

Zojoel, king of garbage necros, enlightening the community with his wisdom. And then there is booms on his crusade to nerf revenant based on changing his team comp. Maybe condi reaper and DH need buffs. They’re clearly under-performing compared to revenant.

It’s funny how this thread pops up over and over.
OP: Rev has no counterplay/UA has no counterplay.
People present plenty of counterplay.
OP gets mad and continues to QQ.

What is this like the fifth thread? I’m pretty sure people with brains are fed up with replying to the same garbage over and over at this point.

I love you Rantev but there really is no denying that rev is the strongest class atm. Sure your hammer build might be more balanced but were talking about the op af sw sh St build, man that’s a lot of S’s. It’s not just my team comp either; PZ went from a pretty weak team to arguably the 2nd best team in NA in a couple days after changing comps. They almost never die in team fights and can live 1v3 sometimes for a long time while holding node.. We had ipno troll a point(on marauder) without decap for 30-60 seconds in a 1v3 once vs a decent team.
I don’t know really what needs to be nerfed but they are definitely top class right now. Oh and I don’t even want to nerf them, let us win a few free games until everyone else rerolls.

OP is totally right rev is completely unbalanced. The amount of damage it puts out vs the amount of sustain it has is absolutely unbelievable. The only down side is the condi removal and it’s 1v1s.. but just don’t put it in 1v1 and stick it with a tempest and watch it obliterate everything and carry every fight.
My team (0 counterplay) went from losing to OP’s team in scrims to being undefeated in scrims (including radioactive, faded, and ez pz) and qualifiers until the 1 map we lost vs dart’s team. we did that literally over night by changing our comp to double revenant.
More and more over the pro league you will see teams switching people off of their mains to revenant until every team has at least one and probably half the teams have 2.

there’s like 6 things you’ll see in the meta right now:

D/F (or staff) Tempset:
has really good support, basically the new bunker guard but can also 1v1 decently. you should try to use these in team fights or to hold a node while being outnumbered

weapon varying Druid:
these have decent support, but usually will be holding a side node in a 1v1 or 2v2. can also tank like a tempest but less direct support and sustain.

Sw/Sh Staff Herald (revenant)
Good damage and mobility. They are basically a thief and a bruiser at the same time. Amazing for getting rezzes due to the healing while rezzing trait. Tons of sustain too. Absolutely broken and I recommend running 2 if you can.

Hammer Scrapper
Similar to druid, they play side nodes. More dmg and cc but less support. I don’t like them very much as I feel like theyre just HP bars; but they do have decent damage from passive condi application from sigils and Inc. powder and the hammer skills.

S/F (GS) LB Dragonhunter
The most on node AoE damage of the other classes and decent ranged damage. They’re really good in 1v1 and theyre good against less skilled players who can’t focus well or avoid obvious aoe damage. Of all the classes listed theyre the squishiest which can be a burden sometimes.

S/W Staff Reaper
Can either run carrion or cele. Also known as the cry-o-mancer it does a ton of damage from chills and dhuumfire. It’s really tanky because of the massive HP pool with DS and forces enemies away with chill. Strong in skirmishes but loses effectiveness in team fights I think because of the cleanse everyone has.

Hambow
Terrormancer 1st edition
Spirit ranger
turret engi

+1.

Belial.9350:

NeXeD.3042:

Oh give it a kittening break with this EU is so much better than NA bullkitten seriously OmG you didn’t make it to the pro league well its clearly due to how amazing all the eu players are compared to the na, clearly.

LOL I like how you automatically jumped to this conclusion. I don’t even play on a team. Seriously, go watch the two qualifiers and see the skill difference.

The only thing I saw on the EU servers were teams who specced 4 bunkers and then played subpar builds on just about everything and noobs copying helseth’s bad bunker well build. Every single game nearly went to timer and was a blowout because of their stupid bunker v bunker comps resulting in snowballs.

Yeah sure ok theyre better at least we don’t fall asleep while playing

Aeroxe.8140:

worminator.5174:

Booms.3952:

worminator.5174:

Booms.3952:

worminator.5174:

Ofcourse they are defeatable, even in 1v1. But it does not change the fact that its not balanced. High reward, medium/low risk. Show me another class that can destroy a whole teamfight while just casting brainless all traps at once. And because of aegis, blocks, invuln. and reflect you also have medium sustain.
Compare it with a shatter mesmer. Damage can be the same, but if you fail you are in downstate in just a few seconds, with or without ctrl+t. Thats the different.
And dont forget this incredible dmg of lb 2 with an 4 seconds cd. You can dodge it twice in 10 seconds, but what will you do then. Oh and i forgot that its piercing (without any trait).
Conclusion: User got carried by his build.

Druid, reaper, herald, tempest are all better than DH with similar “low medium risk high reward” and scrapper is about equal. Mesmer has always required higher level positioning, however it’s not “if you fail you are in downstate in a second”. With shield and continuum split as well as evade well, they actually have decent survivability. Sure you expect them to die sooner than other classes, but they also can moa, timewarp or gravity well TWICE within 5 seconds if they wanted to. And they can burn for 10-12k with almost no setup besides positioning. DH “burst”? Well maybe 10k on a squishy if you land a true shot and a test of faith in melee assuming theres no projectile deflection up at some point (there always is when someone is getting cc’d). Chrono gets countered by DH to some degree that is true. However that’s just one class and just means at least DH is decent at SOMETHING right now.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

The ideal nerf for them would be along the lines of:
1) Reduce dmg of traps by ~15%.
2) Set all traps cast-time to 1 sec and the elite one 1.5 sec.
3) Remove the daze from traps
4) Decrease the duration of the boons (7 seconds of protection, seriously?)
5) Decrease healing of the F2 skill. Without any healing power, core guardian’s F2 heals around 1600 I think and the new ones almost double of that. That should be reduced to core’s standard.
5) F3 is bugged. It blocks unblockable skills as well. Fix that please.

You would simply never see another DH again in your lifetime if those changes went through.

Denial of reality? I never denied that the other classes also have low risk, but they cannot deal the same dmg + pulsing aoe cc atonce. DH dies easily in coordinated burst, mesmer dies in the same situation without coordinated burst and double moa requires really not too much skill, but trap dh is still cheaper.:)
Druid for example has to outplay you and he cannot burst a whole team at once. Their roll is to support, and they will not be of any use if their team doesnt deals the dmg that the druid cannot make.

About Chrono (i have spoken about mesmer before, not chrono). Ofcourse Chrono provides many kinds of quality when it comes to survivability and they can have a great impact in teamfights. But atleast the player behind the pc needs just a small knowledge of pvp. I have seen so many bad guards this weekend who were able to kill ppl in teamfights. (They ignored my reflectionwall and didnt stop to spam lb skills) My problem with this build: These ppl. would have lost preaddon with viable guardbuilds. Why? Build good, gamer bad.
Now they win to easy! Why? Build broken unbalanced, gamer still bad.

I understand that DH has a low skill floor and I understand your MMR is low so you’re frustrated about them. However, you can’t nerf DH because “it’s cheese”; it actually has to be OP. DD ele turned bad players into okay players the same way DH did, but DD ele was actually overpowered as well for the top players too. DH is just not the same… Turret engis got nerfed because they made extremely bad players look GOOD, unlike DH which make extremely bad players look not that bad. So basically, L2P and don’t nerf because you don’t understand how to play the game.

Low MMR? This can only come from somebody who say about himself that he is the Nummer 1 Guardian NA. I would say iam mid MMR, maybe a bit higher. And defending an unbalanced build(you could never give us a proper argument against it) i doubt you are near top 10 guards.

booms is probably somewhere in the top 10 guards, but his moral conscience is nonexistent and his ego is as big as andromeda.

yo im humble on the inside its just my outwards appearance which has a huge ego. it makes me play more confident during a match but while practicing I know people are always getting better so I need to as well

worminator.5174:

Booms.3952:

worminator.5174:

Ofcourse they are defeatable, even in 1v1. But it does not change the fact that its not balanced. High reward, medium/low risk. Show me another class that can destroy a whole teamfight while just casting brainless all traps at once. And because of aegis, blocks, invuln. and reflect you also have medium sustain.
Compare it with a shatter mesmer. Damage can be the same, but if you fail you are in downstate in just a few seconds, with or without ctrl+t. Thats the different.
And dont forget this incredible dmg of lb 2 with an 4 seconds cd. You can dodge it twice in 10 seconds, but what will you do then. Oh and i forgot that its piercing (without any trait).
Conclusion: User got carried by his build.

Druid, reaper, herald, tempest are all better than DH with similar “low medium risk high reward” and scrapper is about equal. Mesmer has always required higher level positioning, however it’s not “if you fail you are in downstate in a second”. With shield and continuum split as well as evade well, they actually have decent survivability. Sure you expect them to die sooner than other classes, but they also can moa, timewarp or gravity well TWICE within 5 seconds if they wanted to. And they can burn for 10-12k with almost no setup besides positioning. DH “burst”? Well maybe 10k on a squishy if you land a true shot and a test of faith in melee assuming theres no projectile deflection up at some point (there always is when someone is getting cc’d). Chrono gets countered by DH to some degree that is true. However that’s just one class and just means at least DH is decent at SOMETHING right now.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

The ideal nerf for them would be along the lines of:
1) Reduce dmg of traps by ~15%.
2) Set all traps cast-time to 1 sec and the elite one 1.5 sec.
3) Remove the daze from traps
4) Decrease the duration of the boons (7 seconds of protection, seriously?)
5) Decrease healing of the F2 skill. Without any healing power, core guardian’s F2 heals around 1600 I think and the new ones almost double of that. That should be reduced to core’s standard.
5) F3 is bugged. It blocks unblockable skills as well. Fix that please.

You would simply never see another DH again in your lifetime if those changes went through.

Denial of reality? I never denied that the other classes also have low risk, but they cannot deal the same dmg + pulsing aoe cc atonce. DH dies easily in coordinated burst, mesmer dies in the same situation without coordinated burst and double moa requires really not too much skill, but trap dh is still cheaper.:)
Druid for example has to outplay you and he cannot burst a whole team at once. Their roll is to support, and they will not be of any use if their team doesnt deals the dmg that the druid cannot make.

About Chrono (i have spoken about mesmer before, not chrono). Ofcourse Chrono provides many kinds of quality when it comes to survivability and they can have a great impact in teamfights. But atleast the player behind the pc needs just a small knowledge of pvp. I have seen so many bad guards this weekend who were able to kill ppl in teamfights. (They ignored my reflectionwall and didnt stop to spam lb skills) My problem with this build: These ppl. would have lost preaddon with viable guardbuilds. Why? Build good, gamer bad.
Now they win to easy! Why? Build broken unbalanced, gamer still bad.

I understand that DH has a low skill floor and I understand your MMR is low so you’re frustrated about them. However, you can’t nerf DH because “it’s cheese”; it actually has to be OP. DD ele turned bad players into okay players the same way DH did, but DD ele was actually overpowered as well for the top players too. DH is just not the same… Turret engis got nerfed because they made extremely bad players look GOOD, unlike DH which make extremely bad players look not that bad. So basically, L2P and don’t nerf because you don’t understand how to play the game.

worminator.5174:

Ofcourse they are defeatable, even in 1v1. But it does not change the fact that its not balanced. High reward, medium/low risk. Show me another class that can destroy a whole teamfight while just casting brainless all traps at once. And because of aegis, blocks, invuln. and reflect you also have medium sustain.
Compare it with a shatter mesmer. Damage can be the same, but if you fail you are in downstate in just a few seconds, with or without ctrl+t. Thats the different.
And dont forget this incredible dmg of lb 2 with an 4 seconds cd. You can dodge it twice in 10 seconds, but what will you do then. Oh and i forgot that its piercing (without any trait).
Conclusion: User got carried by his build.

Druid, reaper, herald, tempest are all better than DH with similar “low medium risk high reward” and scrapper is about equal. Mesmer has always required higher level positioning, however it’s not “if you fail you are in downstate in a second”. With shield and continuum split as well as evade well, they actually have decent survivability. Sure you expect them to die sooner than other classes, but they also can moa, timewarp or gravity well TWICE within 5 seconds if they wanted to. And they can burn for 10-12k with almost no setup besides positioning. DH “burst”? Well maybe 10k on a squishy if you land a true shot and a test of faith in melee assuming theres no projectile deflection up at some point (there always is when someone is getting cc’d). Chrono gets countered by DH to some degree that is true. However that’s just one class and just means at least DH is decent at SOMETHING right now.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

The ideal nerf for them would be along the lines of:
1) Reduce dmg of traps by ~15%.
2) Set all traps cast-time to 1 sec and the elite one 1.5 sec.
3) Remove the daze from traps
4) Decrease the duration of the boons (7 seconds of protection, seriously?)
5) Decrease healing of the F2 skill. Without any healing power, core guardian’s F2 heals around 1600 I think and the new ones almost double of that. That should be reduced to core’s standard.
5) F3 is bugged. It blocks unblockable skills as well. Fix that please.

You would simply never see another DH again in your lifetime if those changes went through.

Dragon hunter has been getting a lot of QQ on the forums lately for being too easy, too gimmicky, too overpowered. I’m sure it seems like this in a hotjoin when you dont know what ctrl+T does, but for people who actually care about balance and playing the game competitively, it’s not the same.

DH is just really easy to focus in team fights and is actually lacking in 2v2’s, since the majority of classes right now will just outlive the guard and wittle down his cds. It’s not like some cele engi,ele,necro,druid or marauder rev is just giong to go down to a couple traps. The only thing DH has going for it right now are the facts that it can 1v1 nearly everything (scrappers being mostly a counter, which are pretty common) and that it can beat mesmers and thieves decently well. Even so, it’s hard to kill these classes in team fights when D/F tempests and druids are everywhere throwing up projectile destruction and nearly every class has a ton of stability.

I’m not entirely sure about the EU scene, but in NA I’ve seen a lot of DH’s early after the patch reroll off of it to a more overpowered class like necro or revenant. What went from on average 1 DH per team has gone to less than 1 DH per 2 teams. Players like Morfeus, Kaypud, Tesla, and Sunfish have all switched off to something more effective. The only reason me and Ementon still run it is cause we’re stubborn af and only play guardian. Nearly all pro league players will agree DH does not need more than a couple small nerfs, even Zeromis who hates them with all his glory.

I can probably assume it’s similar in EU. They love their super bunker comps there right now and dragon hunter is literally going to do nothing unless someone drops a gravity well and catches someone without stab and then drops like 3 traps.

And then there’s just so much forum QQ. Like it seriously angers me how people think something is overpowered because they just don’t know how to play against it. The reason you think it’s OP is because you’re not using the OP meta builds that destroy it now, okay?

So RIP DH. Fun while it lasted. Forum QQ’rs probably gonna get it destroyed in today’s patch and we’ll see 1 maybe 2 of 40 players running it. and then they’ll probably mega buff warrior and we’ll see 10+ of those …. again.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

DD ele still works. Soldier engie rifle still works. And warrior was proven OP by Crysis yesterday. So you got that.

Lol

Exciton.8942:

Many other elite specs are strong but only DH is very clearly in the OP region.
The way the spec dishes out CC and damage together is way too easy to pull off. It is hands down the king in teamfight while still be able to 1v1 some bruiser spec. Way over the top.

Not even close. It gets destroyed in team fight by reapers and revs since their sustain is insane

Morwath.9817:

I would prefer to just have those matches saved in game client so we could spectate them anytime and as we want like it was in GW1.

This. And in game spectating of tournaments. This shouod be one of the HIGHEST priorities at anet if they want this game to be esports. It’s just so much easier to understand what’s going on when you can spectate whoever you want. All it would require is an in game audio stream for casters and a dynamically size increasing custom arena.

itt: hotjoin level players

seriously watch pro league qualifiers streams and get back to me that dragon hunters are “op”.
there are only 2 guardian mains in NA pro leagues (of the 40 players) and maybe up to 2 more playing on alts who can switch. hardly that OP… especially when they instant die to focus

uhohhotdog.3598:

They don’t try to make you lose. They simply keep raising your rating til you get to the point where you’re playing against people better than you which causes you to lose and drop your rating.

technically they don’t try to make you lose,just make it balanced. however you have to know that eventually there won’t be anyone “better” than you. the game compensates by putting 4 less skilled players than the 5 on the enemy team so its “balanced” and then you lose a good amount of games

Bump happens to me too