Guild Wars 2

Although the PvE could be better in some ways, this is clearly a subjective opinion. Stating that it is a fact does not make it so.

If you want to be objective, you need to use objective terminology and be much more specific, you need to provide evidence of the specific details and you need to address your bias.

Sorry, not gonna bait me into turning this thread into a discussion about PvE. Also, I don’t NEED to provide evidence in order for something to be true. It’ll be true whether I do so or not.

The problem though is that this achievement is necessary to get 100% completion on this event, and for some players getting 100% on a temporary event is a huge thing

I’m sorry, but I really hate hearing this kind of entitled stuff. You want the 100%? Go DO the 100%. Don’t sit here posting on the boards about how it’s just such a big deal to get 100% and you want that 100%, but it’s not fair that one part is too hard, or one part is doing something you don’t like.

I keep hearing all these “hardcore completionists” and such posting about how they just HAVE TO HAVE that 100% or else their life isn’t complete, but at the same time it’s not a big enough deal to put their big boy pants on and put some effort into it, they want it handed to them.

what’s sad is, if you came over into our world, you would be the one asking questions, and we’d be the ones offering the help, the answers, asking you, “can i help you?”

Actually, no. Why? Because most PvPers already have to do a lot of PvE anyway, since that’s how the game is designed. (Runes of the Monk, please)

That and the PvE in this game just isn’t very involved. Sorry, it really just isn’t. That’s not a slam on anyone that likes PvE, it’s just an objective fact. There’s not much to it.

it’s the difference in mindsets that i’m attempting to point out, and also to point out, this type of achievement fosters one type of mindset more than it does the other.

The difference in mindsets here is that some people want to get everything, but don’t want to do everything. It’s just an entitlement mindset, unfortunately. There are several things I want in game that involve doing things I don’t like, too. I won’t go asking for them to be changed, or asking for an easier path, because that’s just not how I look at things, I guess.

I agree. Honestly, If BG and SoR paid more attention to JQ instead of only fighting each other most of the time, JQ would be completely crushed.

It’s funny you say that when pretty much my entire play time last night was taken up running back and forth between Durios and Quentin, trying to destroy siege from simultaneous BG/SoR zergs at the respective locations.

JQ seems to have some kind of weird, mythical abilities according to the people in these threads. Apparently we team up with BG to 2v1 SoR all the time, while simultaneously teaming up with SoR to 2v1 BG all day. Plus we never have our territory attacked but are also apparently a dead server that can’t get PPT and should all transfer?

Hmmm.

You guys should make up your minds. =)

If any guild is looking to transfer up in tiers, they should consider JQ or TC. NOT SoR or BG, regardless of the guild’s timezone.

Or you could be REALLY pro and transfer from JQ to SoR or BG.

Not that anyone would do that.

Right?

Still doing EB JP every day no problem, even with people camping the entrance and other areas in the JP.

Shoutout to all you fellow can-do attitude gamers! We’ll earn our trophies, thank you. =)

That’s right at the mouth of the tunnel, how exactly does that demonstrate anything fishy? You can see and aim at that point from all sorts of locations there.

I forgot you could be in all four maps at once, and I also had forgotten that there were scouts all over the map that see absolutely everything and report it directly to Teamspeak! Quite the oversight on my part.

Right, so no one sees you, ever. Not even people you supposedly fight? =D

It’s not like small groups are easy to spot. They’re out there, running without commander tags. It’s not like we’re going to run around with a big neon sign above our head saying, “look at us, we’re a small group!!!!”

So on top of being super secret small man elite groups, you’re ninjas too?

I mean, surely if you ever took an objective or did something, someone would see you. I guesss this is all just part of the fantasy, though.

Unless, of course, you’re referring to the “10 15-man groups that just happen to go to the same place together all the time” phenomenon. =D

Actually, many top guilds have broken into smaller groups and try to take on larger blobs with smaller numbers. Just because your guild doesn’t challenge itself, don’t think it’s the meta.

Like I said, I wish I played in the WvW that you’re playing in.

This isn’t really a slam on you or IRON or any guild in particular. But this fantasy world that you guys claim that Tier 1 is, where everyone running in these super-strategic small groups all the time, is just absurd.

I wish Tier 1 WvW was really like that, I really do, but I think everyone here knows the truth of how 99% of fights really turn out. Maybe it’s not intentional, maybe you guys start off with a group of 10 and just attract 50 pugs that never break off. I dunno. But the reality is very different from the fantasy.

Please look at the situation and stop considering everyone who asks for help to be entitled brats. You’ll get more respect that way.

Most of them ARE entitled brats. Look at a huge number of the threads on these forums. It’s all pretty sad.

It may not be your style or what you approve of, but we don’t care. We don’t play for you. We play for us.

Oh please, don’t try to take such a high and noble position for what amounts to wanting a trophy without playing. Just call it what it is, you’d get more respect that way.

So yeah … bad comparison there.

People have been doing it/expecting it in every minigame where it was possible at all. And they sure did it/would have done it in Crab Toss regardless of any achievement bugs.

No excuses, sir. People are just flat out lazy.

There is so much entitlement here.

I don’t even understand it. I don’t even know why some people bother playing the game at all, seeing as how they:

1) Expect everything handed to them instantly
2) Complain endlessly about anything that isn’t.

When I did Crab Toss, almost every game I entered was made up of a handful of people standing in a circle just giving the crab to the next guy. One person even said something to the effect of, “I don’t know why they don’t just give us the achievement points from the start, we’re just gonna do something like this every time.”

Whenever I tried to play, I just got yelled at and had everyone freaking out and spamming their knockdowns and such on me so that I couldn’t “grief” their little collusion session.

What is the point of even playing if you’re approaching it like that? It’s completely mind-boggling that people want to spend their free time on a game while not playing the game, to the point of saying they just want the “rewards” mailed to them?

I’ve said it before…just go download ProgressQuest if all you care about is “rewards” but don’t actually want to play the game.

As for the “we are not all equal” part…yes, we know. No one is going to be great at everything in every game that they ever play. Most of us just accept that. I guess some people go around expecting every bar to be lowered to whatever level is comfortable to them.

I really wish I were playing the same WvW as you guys that talk about these super-skilled small-size groups that are all over the place and never blob up because “that’s not your meta” or whatever.

Unless you mean that you guys have like 10 15-mans that just happen to all go to the same places together? =)

The JP has one thing going for it at least, I might actually see a fight with roughly even numbers and no skill lag so we can actually press buttons!

A scary thought for many, I know.

I dunno, it didn’t take much effort to post that.

Lessons learned by SoR guilds after facing RG: “Recruit more!”

<3

just a quick question – would people prefer to have all 3 servers able to have the exact same numbers, every single day, every single fights?

I guess I don’t see why that would be a problem. Thing about a lot of people in WvW though, they don’t want fights. I’ve said it before, most people seem to run from actual fights.

What most people in WvW seem to want is to run with a zerg large enough to induce skill-lag, swing at the air with 1-spam, then post about how their guild is “Best PvP Guild NA 2013”.

I’m a PvPer and i thought the same as you until a ton of people started telling me how all these defensive traits i was suggesting for their “Sustain” builds didn’t increase their Sustained Damage at all.

Meh, don’t let those PvE people change you! =D

One thing I don’t get is when people behave as if no content at all would be better than having content, because having content “forces” them to log in and play the game.

……what?

It’s not like you miss out on some important progression or gear or items or levels or something if you miss a Living Story event. If you don’t want to log in and do something, then don’t log in and do something.

Most people when they say Sustain they mean Sustained DPS and when they mean keeping themselves up they mean Survivability. At least that’s how most people on these forums seem to be working.

When people mean Sustained DPS they say Sustained DPS. (Which is PvE stuff anyway!) Every time I’ve ever heard the term “sustain” in a PvP context, it’s synonymous with survivability/keeping oneself alive, usually over the long term.

That’s because it’s actually kinda believable that SoR would recruit 50 new guilds. =D

No, i’m saying the sustain is better because you have a constant 5% damage increasse because it’s really easy to keep someone perma burning, i just tacked on there that SOMETIMES i take Lava Tomb instead because i like to be able to win in Downed vs Downed battles.

Pretty sure when someone says “sustain” they’re talking about the ability to sustain oneself during a fight. (Self-healing, protection, etc) Not just keeping a condition up.

Wow, another thread whining about this.

It’s interesting to see how some people act about the WvW Sanctum Kite…compared to the Sanctum Sprint. One group has people that actively prevent people from getting an achievement, while the other has people that try to help others get the achievement/title.

Actually, that’s what ends up ruining a lot of these mini-games. All the people coming in, colluding to get the easy achievements, and yelling at anyone that comes in and tries to actually play it as intended. (I actually liked Crab Toss, but could hardly ever get a “real” game in, because everyone just stood in a circle handing the crab off to each other.)

I really don’t get the mentality where someone just wants to grind a ton of achievements without any effort, challenge, or even doing the content as intended. Is it really that satisfying to have everything basically just be ProgressQuest? (Google that if you don’t get the reference!)

I dunno. It’s like no one wants to actually “achieve” anything to get achievement points. Strikes me as odd. I guess MMO players really do hate fun.

Also: How is it that so many of us just go in solo and get it done easily (indeed, do it every day, for that matter), while others sit here on the boards insisting that it’s 100% totally impossible and no one can ever do it, not in a million years, no way no how, totally impossible for anyone to do.

I dunno. Seems like the attitude I talked about above just paralyzes people once there’s actually something to do that takes a little more effort than hitting a Dragon Pinata 500 times.

Oh hey, the old “I have a life, so I fail!” excuse. That’s new.

Sorry to be nitpicky here, but this is the third achievement down there.
Another three in the other three jumping puzzles.
Plus various waypoints and POIs that took some of us months to complete.

Well, I meant in the context of this particular event. But yeah, there have been others. It’s just part of ANet’s philosophy to have things spread out across different content types.

Sadly, the spread isn’t very even, which has made WvW players feel a little left out, and has given rise to this idea that somehow everything is a “PvE achivement” and is the property of PvEers.

Hmm. So having well thought out complaints is throwing a tantrum now? Or is that only because we disagree with you? Don’t answer that. We already know the answer.

Several threads full of people saying that they feel like quitting now, that ANet is so terrible for forcing them to do something, that this is just impossible and they’re just not gonna do Bazaar at all now…yeah, there’s some tantrums being thrown. You’re not doing it, but it’s being done. =D

Note that all the harsh and hostile voices have been from the WvW community. That’s not just a coincidence.

Really, most of the “hostile” voices have really just been saying, “For the love of Pete, stop whining so much.”

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP and it spawns stuff like this where you’re acting like ANet came to your house and kicked your dog. In some ways, seeing that as PvP/WvW player, it’s a bit annoying.

It’s like being a starving third-world kid and seeing some fat American start a war over there only being 19 nuggets in their 20 piece McNugget box. =D

What fun is there in PvP by hunting down PvE players who are not built for PvP. It’s free kills, which is stuff being handed to you. I understand you are quite against things being handed to you so freely. So if that is the case, why do you want it there?

I couldn’t care less about killing PvE players. Generally I just ignore other people in OS JP anyway because I’m usually trying to beat my own times.

The reason why this is a PvE achievement, is that it is part of a find all 7 kites, 6 of which are in PvE. Additionally, JP’s are a PvE game type. It is definitely not a WvW game type, as the goal is not to capture anything. Holding the JP does not help out with your WvW standing. The goal of the puzzle is clearly PvE in nature, with open world PvP thrown in.

What would be the breakpoint for declaring something “Not a PvE Only” achievement, then? 1 kite in WvW isn’t enough, everyone is still calling it a PvE achievement. What if we put two of them in? Or one in WvW and one in sPvP?

At what point do we just accept that it’s just an achievement, not a “PvE” or “WvW” one?

I doubt that it’s to try to get people into WvW, it’s just because OS happens to be one of (if not the?) longest and best JP’s in the game. It really is quite nice.

Maybe people could argue for a PvE only version. I dunno. Seems silly, since it’s clear that PvP is baked into the design of the puzzle. (Traps and whatnot) And evading people is part of the challenge.

Plus you can be invisible the entire way! (Sorry, I don’t buy the whole “There’s people standing here 24/7 spamming AE! Invisibility doesn’t work!” thing. That’s just absurd.)

I just feel like a mountain is being made of a molehill here because people simply don’t like WvW or PvP and thus convinced themselves that this is impossible before even giving it a shot.

If I was irritated, I wouldn’t be continuing our little funtime! =D

Sure, the matter at hand? What is that exactly again? I mean, when I hear a decent argument against the OS JP, I’d be happy to endorse it, but all I’ve heard so far is pouting and foot-stomping because there are a few achievement points tied up somewhere that isn’t a total cakewalk.

The ONLY thing I’ve heard that’s actually an issue is the fact that you can’t even get to the entrance if your side can’t hold the keep. That’s probably not entirely fair, yes.

Everything else is just the result of folks that have been spoiled by being handed piles and piles of achievement points for not doing much and being shocked that one single achievement might be out of their (self-imposed) short reach.

TL;DR: It’s not that hard! Stop telling yourself it is!

The more I read you posts, the more I am convinced you are a troll. Please go troll elsewhere. Good day, sir.

“You don’t agree with me so you’re a troll”

Standard issue for any internet message board thread, so I won’t hold it against you.

Yes, WvW achievements give terribad rewards. Yes, they need to get balanced and brought up to par. No, that doesn’t give you the right to demean our play to make you feel better about it.

Hey, you guys opened the door to it with all the terrible, “What if we put an achievement for you in Arah!” stuff, making it seem like there’s some actual equality here and that the OS JP is some awful break in that equality.

Didn’t misread at all.

Yeah, you did. He said the exact opposite of, “We consider much of this to be griefing.”

There we have it. Straight from a WvW dev. They consider much of the behaviour we have discussed in here to be griefing.

Um, you just tried to get all snarky on me about “reading comprehension” and then misread what the dev said.

If you really think that the complaint here is that people can’t jump, then I feel sorry for your reading comprehension skills. The exit is >>> that way.

There really isn’t a complaint here other than, “This achievement isn’t being handed to me for free in PvE like every other one, so I’m very upset.”

God forbid an achievement take some effort. I know you PvE guys have been spoiled by having achievement points rained down on you every day for every little thing while people in WvW basically get nada, so I guess I understand why you’re in such shock.

ITT: Spoiled PvE heroes that have trouble finding the spacebar.

What gives you the right to judge him in such a manner?

Who is judging? It’s just a fact that the game is…you know…on a computer monitor and thus relies on seeing. If the implication is that ANet is doing something wrong by releasing content that requires eyes, then yeah…that’s a bit silly. =D

TL;DR:

I waited until the last day to try to do the dungeon.

I don’t know anyone else in game to form a group.

With a full group I couldn’t finish an instance that people have soloed.

This is all ANet’s fault.

Did I do it right?

OMG my PPT got 2v1 by PvD in my SEA WTF BG SoR JQ

^ Every post in this thread.

this is even worse than the total idiocy of crab toss

Crab Toss rocked, why the hate?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/bazaar/Obsidian-Sanctum-again/page/5#post2386833

Keep QQ in the official QQ thread.

So ANet should – in the future – not release content that requires an internet connection or eyes?

I don’t get threads like this.

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time,

And yeah, this idea that “WvW’ers never do it” is just made up, too. Like I said earlier, by some magic I manage to do it every day without any trouble (Even though Blackgate and Sanctum of Rall are two servers with huge population coverage and like to camp the entrance)

All this stuff about how it’s impossible – even invisible – because there’s magical campers that somehow know you’re there and know when to AE, or can put traps down everywhere 24/7 even though no one is around, and how it takes 2 hours to do, and blah blah…it’s all nonsense.

It was dead because no WvWers wanted to go there. If they wanted to bring a dead WvW area to life, why target PvEers by putting an achievement there? That’s like removing arrow cart blueprints and only making them available by doing Arah path 4. Wrong target audience

People keep using that logic, and it just doesn’t fly. Simply because of the ridiculous imbalance in existing achievements (and other things like gold, certain runes and gear sets, etc) that already force WvW’ers to go do PvE all the time if they want stuff.

If things were closer to equal, then I could see the complaint. But as it is, for a WvW player, seeing a PvE player whine about “being forced into content I don’t do” is quite frankly laughable.

It’s funny how both SoR and BG claim that JQ is secretly conspiring with the other server. =D

Preceeded by the predictable “SOR takes NW tower while BG hits NE tower”. I am not even suggesting that you guys coordinate, it is just such an daily occurance that BG knows when SOR will keep JQ busy.

Eh, I wouldn’t be too upset about it. in the end, SoR and BG’s zergs keeping each other busy is about the only thing letting JQ get points most nights. (Refer to BG/DB/JQ matchup to see what happens when there’s no SoR blob to keep BG’s blob busy for us.)

Let me make an analogy, so it is clearer. Lets say there was a meta achievement that required you to do six semi difficult things in wvw, and the 7 th was at the end of arah path 4. Doesn’t it seem like that last one should not be included? Not because it would be some impossible, onerous task, but because it is out iof place.

You know why this kinda falls flat? Because the overwhelming majority of achievement points already come from PvE as it is. In fact, if you mostly do WvW, you probably have very few achievement points right now because of how ridiculous the few WvW achievements are. (Kill a billion yaks!)

So yeah, it’s really hard to sympathize with the whole, “But we want the achievements to only be PvE!” crowd because just about everything already IS PvE. One single, tiny achievement asks you to step out of your already-achievement-glutted comfort zone one time, and suddenly it’s a life-ruining issue.

So they’re just standing there. AEing the air. Forever.

Ok.

Just use the invisibility fountains, problem solved.

You know…I don’t see a single PvP or WvW achievement mingled in with the PvE ones. You can ignore the PvE achievements like us PvErs ignore those in the WvW and PvP sections.

So the overwhelming majority of achievements in the game being in PvE isn’t enough for you?

But yet again to get the PvE achievements for the living story we have to deal with people who have nothing better to do than to hide in the dark and kill people that can’t see them.

No you don’t. Just skip that one and still get the primary meta done. Yay. Quit acting like ANet is twisting your arm and forcing you to do something that you clearly dislike so much that you’ve convinced yourself its impossible.