Yes the 15% is not accurate, it could be more or less, I use 15% coz it’s probably the most common case for guardian. (even u have 18k HP, 2240% is still 12%) Just want to give an example here to prove that investing toughnessVit >>> investing prec+crit damage, especially for guardian no matter what build u r using.
2240 HP = 15% more HP since the fact of most guardian has about ~15k HP.
224 Vitality doesn’t give you “15% more HP.” It gives you a flat rate of 2240 HP. 10 HP for every vitality point.
Percentages have nothing to do with it when adding vitality unless you include the health that you already have, which is pointless, seeing as that number could be anything including or above the flat rate.
Coming from someone who already has a completed Exotic Toughness/Vit/Healing Power build, I can tell you that it isn’t wildly better than any other build out there as far as one on ones. I can beat most people when I fight them in WvW but it’s not because the build is just wildly spectacular, it’s just that the mindset of people in WvW is “do as much damage as possible as soon as possible.” So when my Guardian is able to get through that damage with more than half of her health remaining the other player has no idea what to do.
I have a Power/Prec/Crit Ranger as well. It doesn’t dominate any less or any more than my Guardian, but it has a wildly different playstyle. There are times on my Guardian where I think, “what I would do for a bow that 3-hits people right now.” And times on my Ranger where I think, “what I would do for all of my health coming back with one skill.”
In short, you won’t find a build that is just plainly better (unless you, for example, go condition damage on a class that doesn’t have many conditions) than any other. As long as you stick to a certain build once you start it, youll be fine.
That doesn’t mean it’s accurate to say that 224 gives you 15% more HP. That only is true if the Guardian has 15k HP. If they have the flat Guardian HP it would be more, if they already have 18k, it would be less. If you’re trying to talk about it as value for your money, you have to understand that you’re never going to get any more or less value for your spent trait points or armor stats than you do when you first start adding vitality. You get the same amount for every point whenever you add it.
2240 HP = 15% more HP since the fact of most guardian has about ~15k HP.
224 Vitality doesn’t give you “15% more HP.” It gives you a flat rate of 2240 HP. 10 HP for every vitality point.
Percentages have nothing to do with it when adding vitality unless you include the health that you already have, which is pointless, seeing as that number could be anything including or above the flat rate.
Coming from someone who already has a completed Exotic Toughness/Vit/Healing Power build, I can tell you that it isn’t wildly better than any other build out there as far as one on ones. I can beat most people when I fight them in WvW but it’s not because the build is just wildly spectacular, it’s just that the mindset of people in WvW is “do as much damage as possible as soon as possible.” So when my Guardian is able to get through that damage with more than half of her health remaining the other player has no idea what to do.
I have a Power/Prec/Crit Ranger as well. It doesn’t dominate any less or any more than my Guardian, but it has a wildly different playstyle. There are times on my Guardian where I think, “what I would do for a bow that 3-hits people right now.” And times on my Ranger where I think, “what I would do for all of my health coming back with one skill.”
In short, you won’t find a build that is just plainly better (unless you, for example, go condition damage on a class that doesn’t have many conditions) than any other. As long as you stick to a certain build once you start it, youll be fine.
After gear my guardian with full berserk set, and looked at the stats and made some calculation, I just realized that berserk set is the worst choice especially for guardian.
Then what’s the best set ? I can tell you answer 1st — PTV.
Let’s do the calculation here:
1st, Precision is the worst attribute among 4. at lv80, it’s about 20p = 1% crit chance. However, there are so many reliable ways to get higher pre+crit chance other than gears, such as food, oil, buff, sigil etc…. you can easily maintain a +40% crit chance in most of time by not investing any prec.
Then let’s do the math by comparing berserk armor set bonus VS PTV (e.g. karma or AC set):
berserk give u 224 more prec and 16% more crit damage. PTV give u 224 more T and V.
As I mentioned above, it’s easy to get +40% crit chance , so your over all crit chance will be above 60%, so losing 224 prec and 16% crit damage means about 12% damage lost. However, for Guardian, 224 T + V means 9% damage reduction and at least 15% HP increase, which will be a totally at least 25% increase for EHP.
So the result is clear : 12% VS 25% that’s the difference between berserk vs PTV (change from berserk set to PTV set, u will lose 12% damage but will gain 25% more survivability, deadman won’t do damage, 25% survivability can be also considered as 25% more damage out put)
And, this is just the difference of armor ……
I am now so regret that I spent ~30g for the berserk set, I wished I could do this math before I bought them.
So if you have not decided yet , look at my post and think twice.
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
If you have problem on chasing ppl, here is my experience. It works in most of time in wvw.
1st u wanna make sure your foe is not too far away, ideal distance is withing 1800 range. Then pop up either retreat or save urself to get run speed buff (but if u r following zerg, you probably already have that) , start with GS, use JI + GS3 to catch him, then GS5 + pull him back; he will be knocked down then will take most of ur GS2 damage at following; then switch to specter 3 root him plus smite, he will keep running for sure but at that time he has 1/2 HP at most, then u have torch 4 + 5 . Torch 5 is very good at chasing ppl at mid range coz its auto-lock, and due to its high frequency of atking (and with decent damage as well), if you have sigil of ice on it, it will proc in most of time, now 90% class w/o teleport skills should be down.
My biggest problem with wvw is that people tend to run away when I begin to get the better of them. Chasing them down with a guardian is difficult. I read through the posts here and it’s given me some ideas. I wish guardians had more options to cripple enemies, but their conditions seem to focus on burning which is nice but you can run away while you’re on fire. Even when I teleport to them they keep on running like scared little babies back to the motherzerg it’s pitiful.
Is there a sigil that inflicts cripple on crits like how earth inflicts bleeding?
Being as a lv80 ranger before I rerolled guardian, I have to say , guardian is much much much more powerful in wvw at least than ranger. My ranger is in full exotic gears and my guardian is not even only lv80 yet (lv70+) and with crappy gears, but the fact is my guardian kills more and survive much more. Guardian has some amazing gap closer skills such as GS3, GS5, Sword 2, JI, and specter 3 is even better. I have never let anyone flee away except thief and sometimes mesmer (not all the time) while my guardian chase them.
read a little bit carefully, guys.
My Point is —-— give ranger (LB) a 50% damage buff as a trade-off of not using (turn it off) pet.
Since the pet is not useful in pvp (in pve it’s ok), and since it can be turned off, so why not just give us an option of doing something viable by not carrying pet during pvp ?
My point is — even if +50% damage to longbow, its DPS is still lower than other class same style burst skills.
In fact, I would rather to see the range shot atk speed change to 0.75 sec (which is most other classes’s range atk speed), and rapid fire speed change to 3 sec. If that happens, the damage never change, but the DPS changes significantly, which will make LB a good weapon.
Let’s look at SB’s base DPS:
cross fire base power = 97, atk speed = 0.52 sec, base DPS = 186.5
LB range shot, even at max distance, base power = 219, atk speed=1.25 sec, base power = 175.2
Even with rapid fire, base power = 910, atk speed= 5 sec, DPS = 182.
It’s very clear there is no way longbow can over damage SB.
That’s inside ranger class.
Look at warrior:
volly base power = 840, atk speed = 2.5 sec, so DPS = 336 !!! (yes 336!!!!!)
Look at thief:
unload base power =73×8=584, atk speed = 1.75 sec, DPS = 333!!!!
look at engi:
Dart volly base power = 97×5=485, atk speed = 1.75 sec, DPS = 277 !!! (and it’s AOE!)
Data tells the truth, so when other class using range weapon doing ~300 DPS, ranger can only do 180? Oh, I forget about pet, but does it ever hit moving target at all?
So as a trade-off, how about this way —- once range switch off pet, give us 50% more damage on weapons to make us DPS equal to other classes ?
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
Never ever hoped that ranger can be buffed. Even if they do, it won’t give any significant result, simply becoz ranger is already very good for pve (so pvp underpower = balanced over all). Yes thief, mesmer are good in pvp, but look at pve, they have much harder time than ranger.
There is no MMO ever can make classes balanced in pvp coz it’s impossible. But you can make PVP+PVE balanced, that’s the way Anet chose.
Again, ranger is not designed for pvp, so don’t fool yourself again and again.
I remember I saw someone else post this bug, today I tested it, super sigil of hydromancy didn’t work at all. When I switch weapon I can see the animation, but the target was not chilled at all. Tested 100+ times everywhere in pvp, pve or wvw, none of them work.
Please fix this.
So I am wildly guessing :
Buff signet = signet build (max marksman) which means glass-canon build;
Buff spirit = spirit build (max natural magic) which can be either bunker or support build;
Plus the only current viable trap build.
Anet will give us 4 choices in the coming patch.
So finally Jon gave up his warrior and tried ranger in pvp or wvw for a bit (I even dare not imagine the result) , I guess.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBlYD7koiKLjsQLIULDEtHaSSnnVg/uH+PUd6gf1eA;TsAA2Coo2xsjYH7Oudk7sAZQwWEA
in wvw , switch “protect me” to “frost trap” since pet either died or can’t hold full 6s in most of time.
Basicly a semi-bunker build, dodging crazily(every 3-4 sec), no problem VS any burst damage build. But vs any bunker build = long boring fight, especially guardian, took forever…..
PS: still a hard time VS mesmer when 1v1.
A fact is after FA’s perm-steath thief played DB’s 60+ players for camp defending twice in a row, DB got outman buff in like 3 mins. Everyone just left WvW after experiencing this.
But anyway, it’s a very good strategy to take down opponent’s morale, gj FA!
It has been talked millions of time since 10/7, What Anet do is just close (or delete) the post. I am sure they already know this, but the problem is whether they care.
2 days since the new round wvw began, it took at least 30+ players to take a supply camp (sometime 30+ players are still now enough) as long as there is 1 thief there using the perm-steath trick. And it may take about 10+ mins depending on whether the theif feel bored or not.
If you want to play legit, you will lose for sure.
So this is all WvW about?
Just now, it takes about 30+ DB players(everyone cast AOE and basicly covered every piece of the field but still can’t catch him) about 20 mins VS 1 perm-steath thief from FA and took the camp back. And that’s becoz the theif gave up, guess he just feel bored and left. Lots of ppl recorded it.
Hard to believe that this issue has been existing in wvw for so long but ANET just let it go.
Under water fight in wvw, ranger is still the dominater.
This is just opposite to what I have observed. If you have 2 on-switch sigils on each of you main and off weapon. ONLY the sigil of main hand can be activated.
(I have hydromancer on my 1-hand sword and Superior Battle on warhorn, everytime I switch to S/H during battle, I can chill, but never get the might buff from Sigil of Superior Battle)
More than that, my personal testing has shown that only the sigil in the off-hand takes effect with a weapon in each hand. Even with two completely different sigils.
One simple way to test this is to place an on-switch sigil in the main-hand and an on-crit sigil in the off-hand. When you switch to it, nothing will happen, but you will get the on-crit effect. Switch the slots each weapon is in, and you’ll get the on-switch effect but not the on-crit effect.
I said —- sometimes. (it’s true that sometimes ppl just run away when seeing a flock of red names but not even pay attention what they are.)
Another advantage of spirits which I have found is — the threatening effect.
Ranger + pet + 3 spirits = 5 red names. Sometimes either in sPVP or wvw, i met 2 enemies at a relatively long range, but they just run away while seeing me (yes!!! 5 red names coming! )……Really? That’s what you say most people do? Because when I see a flock of red names, I think: AoE.
And we all know that Spirits and pets melt under AoEs.
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
Another advantage of spirits which I have found is — the threatening effect.
Ranger + pet + 3 spirits = 5 red names. Sometimes either in sPVP or wvw, i met 2 enemies at a relatively long range, but they just run away while seeing me (yes!!! 5 red names coming! )……
Don’t know whether you guys have noticed such a phenomenon (at least works for me when I tried spirit build): Spirits can significantly increase the survivability especially while you escaping. Simply becoz those spirits will stay in a row behind you therefore blocks a lot damage from behind….
Find another video showing the powerful SPAM-1 skill by thief. Yes, this time thief use pistol to SPAM-1 and it’s even easier than dagger, and watching the whole video, his utility skills were untouched in most of time coz it was just unneccesary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEWOGcU61ng&feature=plcp
So rangers, can you do that even if it’s before 10/7 nerf?
Just an idea:
Give ranger a certain skill (e.g. rampage AS ONE) or maybe even a certain trait skills (e.g. Marksman 30 to replace the signet of beastmaster) to let ranger can use his pet’s skill (or maybe just the F2 skill). Since thief can steal other’s skills, why not make ranger use his own pet’s skill too?
It will make huge difference… it will make ranger class much more versitile since we get lots of options.
So finally I rerolled theif after the the big no-fun-animation-fix, I studied from thief forum and learned a lot, here is a video showing theif’s uber skills (spam 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1…….): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-af8EUYjOZs
I have tried it and rocked almost everywhere in wvw, basicly what I did is just SPAMING 1 much more than my ranger.
So can I get such conclusion?
Ranger spam 1 = no fun = nerf (after nerf we have no 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 to spam)
Thief spam more 1 = fun fun fun = never touched. (even if you nerf it , we still can spam 2 and spam 3)
I am not QQing about this since I played thief as well, but isn’t it a Discrimination ?
@Teviko
Why are you using shared anguish and hide in the plain at the same time (wilderness tree)? Isn’t it a waste since they will be activated at the same time?
This is basicly my build for over a month (no viper but QZ, no frost but spike, but same idea), this works great in PVE, and I agree that I have no problem with guardian/warrior in pvp, but I doubt about VS thief, thieves in wvw melt me down in 2 seconds before I can see them. I have no chance to do any counter atk unless I know thief is coming and wait for him inside my traps. I would say anything visible, this build always has a good chance, but not against invisibles.
You are wrong.
It’s true that there are a few ppl QQing about ranger being underpower (as all other classes).
However, most ppl get angry becoz Anet didn’t tell the truth and then give irresponsible explanation for just trying to play the typical american game —- COVER IT UP.
As the title implies, I’d like you to examine yourself through this thread and think about your own play styles and general knowledge you have of GW2 professions. Perhaps the issues with this profession (the Ranger) are in part due to the issues at hand and in part due to your own skill/knowledge. Don’t get me wrong and hear me out before you rage that I dare question your skill – there are problems (bugs) that nearly cripple certain aspects of the profession and need to be / will be fixed. Nonetheless, the Ranger is still a more than viable profession in wvw, pve, and pvp (e.g. all aspects of GW2) and users (players) need to be more aware of their potentially debilitating faults before placing 100% blame on the profession.
Please note; every profession thread has a QQ about their profession sucking – you are not unique Rangers. In order to combat this, I present my general pointers of how to approach this profession, and GW2 in general.
1 – Understand your profession AND OTHERS.
This profession, just like all the others, requires an individual to understand the workings of not only the Ranger, but other profesions you encounter. If you know the timings and cooldowns of professions you come across, it becomes increasingly easier to dominate individuals (and sometimes groups) as a Ranger. GW2 has a high learning curve – roll a few alts, work on understanding other professions, and you will find that your ability to take on other professions may be more limited by your knowledge of the game as opposed to the profession itself.
Personally (350+ hours on the Ranger alone), I spent much of my time pve’ing and wvw’ing on my Ranger. Recently, I’ve spent about 3 weeks straight learning all professions inside and out in spvp. I have learned so much from this process (and still have much more to learn). In particular, I can now easily recognize when someone is que’ing up a heal, or getting ready to MOA me, or throw down their AOE, etc., which now allows me to interrupt/react accordingly. This game takes practice, patience, and understanding in order to utilize the visual ques presented. This is not like other games where you see a cast bar and a spell name underneath it – you need to recognize the visual ques and once you are acustomed this approach the game becomes dramatically easier.
2 – Try out every build!
Regarding the roles of the Ranger, you can effectively play a power or condi or bunker build. I recommend trying these builds out and basing your findings on tournament based 5v5 pvp (avoid conclusions based on zerg-style 8v8). You will find that based on the 3 specs I listed above, a Ranger can roam and point defend extremely well. No, I’m not going to hand hold you and put out 3 specs for you to review/nit pick – however, I will recommend that you use appropriate runes/sigils/amulets for your spec and focus on only 3-4 treelines at most per spec. Much of them can also be tweaked in various directions depending on your play style.
Don’t get caught up in the general masses opinions that certain builds suck or this build is the most OP. Try them yourself and make those determinations on your own. Who knows, you might have a way of playing this “terrible build” that ends up being really good for all the various situations that can arise.
3 – Practice and discuss with your friends!
This is a community based game. Sharing knowledge and strategies is the only way to improve! Ask your friend what he does in x-y-z situation. Get pointers on builds. Go into a spvp zone and 1v1 duel to truly “test your skills”. Visit other sites besides the GW2 forums (no offense moderators!). Firmly understand what each skill does (you may notice that simply reading the traits/skills text does not give you a real idea of what the skill does – you typically need to test them out and may be surprised at the results!).
To sum this up: Take the time to learn all you can about every profession and you will find your play and opinions of professions will increase and/or drastically change.
Thanks for reading this,
doc
The biggest topic in GW2 history has been closed, reason is we didn’t do it in a constructive way.
Then let’s do it “in a constructive way”.
I am not hoping the SB nerf can be revert(it makes Anet too awkward if so). Let’s forget about it.
Please check out the ranger bug list and fix the most important ones(never hope Anet can get all done, just focus on 1):
Here is my $.02:
The priority to fix ranger class is to fix the pet, especially solving the problem of pet not atking moving target. It won’t change anything in PVE but will make PVP much way more balanced. With a pet as a real helper in pvp, I think most ranger will shut their mouth off and enjoy the class. Pet may be the biggest reason why ppl choose to be a ranger, isn’t it? Then make it viable please.
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
It’s not about what warrior used or not used, or even afk, it’s all about the ranger who facerolled the warrior SPAM 1 too much.
Okay so, the warrior doesn’t use any of his signets.. probably had a cramp in that hand. Maybe he had a migraine to start with and the glare from the screen was bothering him a lot. I can work with this. Can’t we use my idea and he has to go afk in the middle of the fight?
I am not that ranger, but I can imagine what happened (maybe not 100% correct , but I guess 90% accurate):
JP’s warrior met a ranger;
Ranger started to SPAM 1 once seeing JP’s warrior;
Warrior charged and 100 blade;
Ranger dodged and kept SPAMING 1 from side, Warrior began to bleed;
Warrior 4 crippled ranger, but was crippled as well;
Ranger set a spike trap, Warrior was immobalized and kept bleeding, ranger 3 ev shot and make the distance further, meanwhile still kept SPAMING 1;
…
…
Warrior kept bleeding and Ranger kept SPAMING 1;
Finally, JPWarrior downed!
Then…. ranger didn’t come close to finish, but kept SPAMING 1 till warrior die.
Conclusion: ranger’s SB is OPed, and the key is SPAMING 1 too much, it’s “not fun” at all.
Then here came the patch and explanations……
Will that ranger please post here? I want details. I figure that JonP had to be afk for about 10 minutes for this cold blooded murder to occur. That’s a given. Then what happened?
This morning I recheck the bot train (nude ranger+brown bears) at queensdale.
Guess what? among 10 bots there are 2 (yes 20%!!!!) rangers using axe instead of shortbow ! What a success this patch have made! Now the SB is not the only choice for bot! Hopefully in the future, after 100x more animation fixes, ranger will become not the only bot class !
By all means, good job on pushing bot so hard! Proud of it! Please make the nerf storm (sry typo, the animation fix storm) harder !
To be honest, ranger is never that bad in PVE, I would say even after all kinds of nerf, Ranger is still the best choice for beginer and over all above average in PVE.
The main complain about ranger’s nerf is coming from PVP side coz our most reliable DPS (SB) was cut and our pet basicly do nothing in PVP.
I really don’t mind the SB nerf, as long as Anet can fix the pet bug (atking moving target) and the 1-h sword self-rooting bug. You know the 1-h sword +QZ DPS is still awesome for non-moving target, not less than warrior or theif’s burst damage, but unfortunately in most of time it will root urself, as long as the opponent move a little bit u will do no damage. Now the only reliable way to use 1-h sword is to use entagle 1st, but well, you have to find your own way to get close to 600 range before you die(maybe give ranger a steath skill?) and can only do it every 150 sec(shorten the CD like thief can do it every 45 sec?).
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
After watching the bot train(nude rangers+bears) at queensdale for 20 mins, I finally realized that this nerf is actrually a re-design: There are totally 7 classes and 1 bot class. Then it make perfect sence that bot class deserve a nerf, maybe even harder.
Get back to my lv67 theif, kill almost any single target every 45 sec in wvw with much better mobility. But that’s really boring…..
If it is TRUE that we need to hit 1000 replies to get Dev to reply us again, let’s do it, at least we are trying to make game better, we are helping them.
The fact is —ranger (SB) is never OP before nerf;
The fact is -- it is a hard nerf but not a simple animation fix;
The fact is — this unbalanced nerf already make almost whole ranger community unhappy;
But well, the fact is also — we spend $60 and bought the game;
and the fact is — it’s Anet’s game, not ours, we are just playing this game;
But remeber, the fact will be — if Anet just keep ignore customer’s feedback and feeling, there will be no more reputation in the future.
So the fact is — this round, Anet, you win, next round, you will lose, I will just simply avoid any product from Anet, that’s it, which I am sure others will do too.
The most important thing is to be careful about Anet rules:
It was also encouraging just spamming 1 which isn’t the most fun gameplay.
SO ANY CLASS WHICH USE 1 TO DEAL MOST DAMAGE WILL BE NERFED SOON.
A:
We made this change because it was creating some animation bugs to leave it where it was. It was also encouraging just spamming QZ which isn’t the most fun gameplay.
I am JonPeters and I prove this message.
I think the developper/designer just gave us a clear orientation about the ranger’s design —- it’s for PVE, not for PVP. I can still solo champins with my shortbow, it just takes longer although I become a moving badge in wvw. For PVP , yes you get nerfed badly, but never forget you are much easier in PVE, so over all, Anet is just making so called balance….
I guess in next patch, ranger’s (or pet’s) damage in water will be cut to 1/2 since this is the real OP side of ranger. So for now, rangers, get your fish fork and go deep inside water, that’s the real space Anet designed for us, before it’s too late…
Well, being nerfed here and there, we as rangers are still holding the last stand in the water. I won’t say ranger is invincible in the water, but the fact is , no matter in spvp or wvw, my ranger never lost any 1v1 fight under the water.
Best pet for ranger? I would say shark w/o doubt, but unfortunately it’s water fight only. Only in water I can feel the power of the pet.
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)
The fact is —-- dagger storm can’t be immobilized. DS will give stability which is anti-immobilization.
Every time I saw a thief using dagger storm I put a spike trap on him (which immobilizes target) , although the trap can be activated, but the thief can run through it and not immobilized at all.
Cripple: walk slower than your enemy
Stability: you can’t be crippled
Gee I wonder why no one goes up and hits the guy.Immobilize Immobilize Immobilize
When I see a thief run into my team with daggerstorm, I swap to Sword and Infitrators (Immobilize) and just auto attack chain him. If he doesn’t cancel daggerstorm he will die.
(edited by CRrabbit.1284)