Guild Wars 2

Well, after doing quite a bit of research it looks like the original thoughts on Maimed are pretty true.

Maimed needs a buff to be worth picking over other options

Maybe an extra torment stack, maybe a secondary condition, but as it stands currently any build that takes maimed, be it power condition or hybrid would be more effective taking another trait in it’s place. Unfortunately, the trait simply just isn’t strong enough to compete with other grandmasters or to forge a build around.

Still, this was a pretty cool experiment that got a lot of discussion and thought-provoking going on. A big thanks to everyone involved!

Actually.. theres a bit of a pattern to mesmer RNG mechanics. It’s sort of like a slot machine in that there’s a “good” / “meh” / “bad” outcome for almost all of our RNG skills.

Staff Auto- Burning / Bleed/ Vuln
Chaos Armor- Protection / Swiftness / Regen – Blind / Cripple / Confusion
Chaos Storm – Aegis / Retaliation / Swiftness – Daze/ Weakness / Chill / Poison
Chaotic Interruption – Blind / Chill / Cripple

I really think all CI needs is just removal of the cripple. Chill still has use behind Immobilize as it slows down skill recharges.

I do think that all pvp Mesmer should learn to play shatter. It forces you to learn all of Mesmer’s mechanics and use them properly to be successful, in fact I usually tell people to play shatter before moving on to lockdown mesmer.

But yeah, for the OPs purposes shatter isn’t what their friend wants.

@Veruah: Halting Strike works pretty well in a Shatter build depending on the weapons involved. I almost always take it over Mental Torment because I land quite a few interrupts and it pays off more and offers me an alternate damage source beyond Mind Wrack.

@Wolf: It sounds like your friend wants a condition PU build (Prismatic Understanding: Stealth lasts longer and grants defensive boons) which is one of the most survivable Mesmer builds out there but can be really tricky to play properly since stealth can’t capture points. The goal with the build would be to secure decaps and force the enemy to dedicate 2+ people to stopping you. Good PU Mesmer can come out of a 3v1 fight alive… but probably wont net a kill; the point is that you’re unbalancing teamfights elsewhere since they have to dedicate so much to face you.

More info on that here

Your other option for survivability is a supportive build. Unlike PU, which is easy to learn and hard to be effective with, support builds can be hard to learn… and hard to be effective with. x.x But the payoff can really be worth it. The build I currently run in s/tPvP was crafted specifically for my personal playstyle, so I can’t say how easily your friend will be able to run it, but when used properly can be extremely effective.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvP-The-Chaos-Maestro-Boon-Support/first#post4236639

This build is capable of handling 2v1s and gives a massive amount of boon support but it can be difficult to learn to do proper damage with it since a lot of the damage is reliant on some of our most inaccurate Phantasms (Focus/Staff). That’s where Chaotic Interruption comes in, manipulating Focus’s pull and Staff’s Chaos Storm to secure immobilizes and hit respectably hard. There’s a sloppy hotjoin video in the comments that displays the build in action with notes on the good and the bad. =P It gives a barebones idea on how the build plays.

Moa would be OP if PvP was judged by a series of 1v1s.

The reason people are being so facetious with you is because the skill barely has use anywhere else in the game, and even in PvP it’s only really good in team fights when it isn’t blocked/dodged/blinded/obstructed/interrupted.

Many people use Moa specifically to cancel other people’s transformations or to turn a 5v5 into a 4v5 to secure a point but other than that Moaing someone is pretty weak, especially in a 1v1, compared to TimeWarp/Mass Invis

Same here, I’m getting error 7-11-3-191-101.

Constant disconnects, and nothing with my computer or internet service has changed in the past month

As always, much appreciated and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot!

And yeah Sors, I’m definitely still using you’re Necro if I’m still allowed. =] The problem is that I’m not sure if Ranger will still be the opponent.

Though I already wrote for Guardian, I was thinking of maybe pitting Guard vs Necro since one uses life-preserving magic and the other using death-manipulating magic…. annnddd I don’t have a ranger to play. x.x

Btw.. how long did it take for you to paint that? It’s excellent! I’m a pencil artist myself and just caaaan’t wrap my head around painting

She had been dreaming of their last Wintersday, they had gone for icecream, had a snowball fight, even build a snowman that Aeoldyn knocked over in frustration because he couldn’t properly sculpt it to match Llyrann’s image. It was the most childish she had ever seen Aeoldyn act, and one of their greatest memories together, but the poison from Aeoldyn’s swords was turning it into a horrible nightmare. The snow was acid, the snowballs were rats, Aeoldyn was shaving apart her face!

He couldn’t help himself. A tear rolled down Aeoldyn’s eye. “She will die from the poison with a broken mind. She will be of no use to the court.” He said without looking at the courtier.

“You will leave, inform the court of her demise, and on your life you will speak no words of what happened here.”
“…” The man glanced from Aeoldyn to Llyrann, silent.

In the blink of an eye the mesmer appeared right infront of him, swords crossed over his throat. For the first time anyone in the court had ever seen, Aeoldyn looked enraged! The sylvari’s glowing cerulean eyes burned with killing intent.

“Under. Stood?!”

The man nodded softly, a motion that made the blade nick his neck just slightly. Aeoldyn unceremoniously shoved the courtier backwards, causing the man to stumble back a few steps, then, just like that, Aeoldyn seemed to shatter apart into a myriad of purple whisps. The courtier was left alone within the remote part of Caledon Forest with the writhing Llyrann on the table before him. He licked his lips, unsure of whether to leave as commanded or to finish the job that Aeoldyn was too weak to do.

If he killed her, Aeoldyn would undoubtedly kill him. If he didn’t the court would do much worse to him for returning empty handed.

Slowly he began to take several steps away from the altar, shaking his head at his predicament. Llyrann grunted yet again, and the courtier stopped. He slowly turned around and glanced back at the elementalist. What if he killed her and branded Aeoldyn as a traitor? The court could protect him. But what if Aeoldyn was still watching, testing him? He’d be dead before he made the attempt. The courtier gritted his teeth, weighing his options…

He found himself walking back to the altar, spear in hand and eyes peeled for any surprise attacks. He was twenty paces of her.

Ten paces.

Five.

Three.

Standing before her, his eyes wide, he raised his spear and plunged it down into her chest with a shriek of fear and excitement. His blade spiked into the altar hard, but it seemed to pierce straight through the woman as if she was made of nothing but air.

…As if she was an illusion.

The clone of Llyrann was already fading apart, beautifully separating into ethereal-looking butterfly-shaped embers that flapped away into nothingness. The courtier exhaled, deeply and shook his head.

“Aeoldyn. The traitor… "

(Even if I don’t win, I had fun writing this. I’ve been in a writing slump for weeks, thanks for kickstarting my muse again! )

(Ooohhh this is gonna be fun!)

“Of all people…”

The dark-skinned sylvari danced back and forth, his weapons -twin swords forged from the foliage of the Nightmare tree- flashing out in a blur before him. He leaned back in time to avoid a slash that would’ve taken his eye, retaliating with a quick thrust to poke a hole in his assailant’s neck. His opposite hand rose to intercept and deflect a spear thrust into his side and he vaulted over the polearm, snapping out a kick mid-jump to knock away a second attacker. With a quick glance over his shoulder, he noticed someone else had managed to get to the altar he was defending. There was a sylvari woman laying there unconscious, her body was covered in cuts and gashes from his own blade. The man lifted a dagger to her throat to finish her, but couldn’t understand the sudden flash of burning pain that raced up and down his spine. He couldn’t understand how Aeoldyn could so instantly appear behind him, back to back, with his sword impaled through the man’s spine and heart. The swords had a hilt and crosspiece made of tightly wrapped plant-like material with an indigo vine smothered in thorns that crept out of the middle of the weapon and up the blade, occasionally the vines would also dig into the sylvari’s wrist, drawing venom from his body and mixing it with toxins taken from the nightmare tree itself to create a deadly concoction that induced horrible mind-altering nightmares.

The Nightmare Court did so love their mesmers.

Aeoldyn held a prestigious title in the court: “Baron of Anguish” because of his skill in torture and, as Aeoldyn claimed, “Anguish is a word that you have to cringe in order to say properly. Delicious.” and it had always been something he relished, until now.

“I.. I should have fathomed this sooner, I presume.”

The blood that stained his blades made him cringe with regret, he felt he deserved the wisps of steam that radiated from patches on his body from electrical burns. Despite being a mesmer, Aeoldyn was very proficient with his dual swords. His preferred method was to incapacitate an opponent in combat and allow the poison to do it’s wicked work so that the victim would awaken begging to join the court simply to end the pain. Aeol didn’t like begging, he thought it an admission of weakness, and he wasn’t particularly fond of most of his courtiers. On several occasions he had found himself clashing violently with other members of the court, using the excuse of “discipline” in order to exert authority.

The three-year-old sylvari had Dreamed of learning all about the mind. He was always interested in knowing the “why” behind the actions of reasoning beings. Aeoldyn wanted to understand why good people did good, why some people never reached their true ambition, why people made excuses for themselves, and how to use this information to predict the future of Tyria. That meant he needed to understand life from both a righteous and sinister perspective, and he had joined the court arrogantly thinking that he would not be changed. Thinking that his mind would not be poisoned by their corruption and values. His plan was simple, to infiltrate the court but to remain a member of the Durmand Priory, making ‘friends’ that would help him maintain his morals and righteousness.

But the Court did not like to share.

So it wasn’t long before Aeoldyn was ordered to sever his ties, though he had protested that he had been an excellent spy within the Priory. They didn’t seem to care, they already had others there to do the job. So instead, his mission had been changed: Retrieve a powerful elementalist that had once escaped the court; capture his beloved friend Llyrann dead or alive.

And so there he stood, surrounded by a ring of his subordinates killed or maimed by his own hand. Standing guard over the person who had first escorted him around Tyria, had taught him to dance, taught him to smile genuinely and enjoy the company of others.

He was a traitor to both.

His heart thumped heavily in his chest, his stomach felt tied in a knot and his breathing was labored. Try as he might to convince himself that it was from exertion he knew the truth: he was terrified. Only one courtier remained before him, wounded and injured and wielding his spear in a way that told Aeoldyn in no uncertain terms that this grunt was no match for him. Behind him lay his target.

“W-why did you strike us?” The courtier asked.
“You were about to eliminate her.” Aeoldyn, ever maintaining a calm and dignified appearance, responded.
“You hesitated!” The man protested.
“I have yet to decide whether to return her dead or alive.”
“That’s a load of skritt and you know it!”

Despite himself, Aeoldyn cringed. He was about to respond when Llyrann grunted and wimpered. Aeoldyn’s face seemed expressionless, refusing to show sympathy or concern, but he moved two fingers to touch her temples and closed his eyes, peering into her thoughts.

Gah. >_< WvW, right.. too much PvP in mind. What is your initial goal with the build?

That’s true, but a build that isn’t capable of holding it’s own without an ally is not a complete build. Since most classes/builds are self-sufficient in one way or another, support is the least priority in the Damage/Support/Control trinity. Too much specializing on boonsharing and defense could very well end up being a detriment to the entire team and counterproductive to your supportive purpose.

In my opinion, a Mesmer has to be able to be a threat in a 1v1 and should be able to handle atleast some 1vX situations in order to be viable.

StickerHappy.8052:

What’s Dom I for? Im just curious, you dont have a lot of power in the build.

Since Veruah had decided to go with the Mind Wrack boost, I didn’t think it was necessary to change it. I’m not 100% positive on the specifics, but I think that because the build has lower power, it’d be pretty good to have the trait there to have mind wrack shatters that weren’t laughable.

Out of curiosity, anyone know how much does Torment do with no condition dmg? Can we get a little mathing here for 0 condi – 500 condi – 100 condi – 1500 condi – 2000?

Looks interesting, and possibly pretty solid. I think it’d be really important to have atleast one sigil of doom in a build like this, poison is a really good condition to have access to. I made some slight alterations:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7alknpMtlqxVNcrRitBZqLcqWg6gUlVWyAMMA-T1SHABppDQIlBupZIIlQLq+jTKB/RJiRKN0d/BAuIAB/EAIFAETjA-w

I don’t think the extra confusion from befuddlement is worth it over refreshing your shatters every minute especially when you gain might and apply a confusion/torment though shattering. Also while chaotic dampening is definitely a fine choice, I think you may get more mileage out of shaved glamours.

Alright guys, I’m about ready to crack down on this story. I had one last question I wanted to ask that I’m a bit surprised I didn’t think of sooner.

Rotations.

Are there any popular rotations/combinations that Necros use?

To use Memser as an example, a Greatsword Mesmer often uses: Mirror blade >> MindWrack >> MindSpike and a Sword Mesmer will Illusionary Leap>> Swap>>MindWrack>>Blurred Frenzy

Wanted to give a quick heads up.. The next entry will be “vs Necro” but I’m not too sure if I’m going to use Mesmer, Elementalist, Warrior, Guardian, or Ranger.

After that, I have one final story longer story similar to Mind of the Mentalist before I move on to other non GW-related project.

As always thanks again for the overwhelming support! You guys have inspired me to really take my writing further.

You’re going to run into a lot of parrots. Unfortunately sometimes those parrots get to be team leaders, and thus the situation you ran into occurs.

When you hear people say “Mesmer is bad in PvP.” “PU Mesmer sucks” “Of course I lost Mesmers OP and need a nerf” “Of course our team lost, we had a Mesmer!” ect. Then odds are they don’t really know what they’re talking about. They’re echoing something someone else said, who probably parroted it off what they heard someone else said, who probably read it parroted on the forums. This trend comes from top players talking about their experiences and everyone else thinking that they play on the same level.

Like Pyro said, good Thieves hardcounter shatter Mesmer but there are other options. Only in the highest ends of PvP or versus specific team comps does Mesmer really fall short.

(Besides it could be worse.. You could be a Ranger and get blamed for everything all the time. =P)

keenlam.4753:

I have never used the skill Illusion of Life.
I could never resist to urge to press F on a portal regardless of where it takes me (sometimes to my death).

Same here.

Actually.. I’ve used Illusion of Life, just never successfully in a way that made any sort of difference.

Sometimes I stand around on point admiring how insanely cool my Mesmer looks.

… Then I proceed to criticize everyone else characters for not matching up to my coolness. (Except skcamow. Leaf dreadlocks allday errday!)

I think that the right setup could actually offer burst potential. Torment + Prestige + Balthazar runes + Pistol phant comes to mind. The problem, I think, lies more in AoE burst potential. =/

Frifox! Where art thou!? I need numbers!

Specifically: How much condition damage do you need for respectable damage? 1300? 1500?

@Veruah: That’s an interesting spread, but two things jump out at me. Firstly, Carrior amulet is pretty bad for Mesmer, when traiting either power or condition damage you need precision either way. Secondly, the heal mantra bothers me. I understand the reasoning: Mender’s Purity to cleanse condis, but the actual healing amount is so low that I’m not certain it’s enough sustain.

Other than that, it looks pretty interesting. I made some slight changes mostly around the runes/sigils and I’m almost positive the pistol will outdamage the offhand sword here (as the pistol does both power/condition damage).

With this, the scepter/pistol would be for single targets where the staff, shatters, and mantra heal would dish out AoE damage.

Edit: @Duck that’s a very interesting alternative there and I definitely see potential, but having two mantras could end up being a hindrance in the middle of a fight. Decoy/Mirror Images could work in MoConcentration’s place though.

Will do! Ty. And for what it’s worth, you’re more than welcome to link/take stuff from the grimoire if it helps out.

Hey dude, I don’t play Necro like … at all, but I think I could give some tips on versing a Mesmer.

The thing to remember is that not every Mesmer that uses stealth is a PU Mesmer, and nearly every Mesmer has a vulnerability to condition damage. Even if you’re not specced for conditions, poison HURTS and the rest of the conditions will often cause a bit of panic in your opponent. When fighting a Mes, one of the best things you can do is look at the weapon they’re wielding before deciding to engage.

Greatsword – They’re intending on keeping you away at range since the closer you are, the less damage the GS does. The main burst comes from a combination of Mirror Blade, Shatter, and MindSpike (essentially you’ll see them unceremoniously pitch their GS at you which does damage/summons a clone next you and then spike it into the floor + Shatter for a nutty wombo-combo burst) If you can dodge that, then all they have left is spamming autoattacks at range, summoning a phantasm and they’re vulnerable.

The other thing to keep in mind is the GS phantasm is one of the most deadly phantasms we have, when you see the Mesmer summon (raising the greatsword to the sky) try to jumpdodge (jump + V) the initial hit, and kill it before it has another chance to strike.

Scepter – They’re likely a PU Mesmer. Their main source of damage will come from Torment via scepter’s counter attack. If you have minions, let the minions do the work, unblockable wells work well too. Like most mesmer, PU Mesmer are much more vulnerable to condition damage than power damage. If you can manage to kite the clones and cleanse the torment they won’t be able to kill you.

Sword – If they’re wielding a sword, they’re going to try and shatterburst you. This means that they have to get into melee range to do damage, and that’s where you’ll excel. Don’t be afraid to drop marks on yourself or near you, rather than trying to catch the Mesmer with them. Make it nigh impossible for them to approach and when they do, if you can dodge the Illusionary Leap, you can render most of their burst useless.

Stealth – Yeah, stealth sucks but it has a couple noteable weaknesses. For one, stealth does NOT mean invulnerability: Wells, Marks, Life Siphon can still give away the Mesmer’s position or eff them up.
For another Mesmer stealth only lasts 3 seconds (4 if using PU). Counting down the time really helps predicting when the Mesmer is going to attack and when to dodge.
Oh.. and most mesmer only carry 2 forms of stealth. Only one is a stunbreak, and the other is either an Elite (5 second mass invis) or attatched the the Torch.

Pistol/Sword/GS Phantasms Kill them! Kill them asap!

• It helps to remember that Mesmer tend to usually only carry 3 stunbreaks at max.

• Decoy/Blink are staples of most Mesmers, and as a result every 15 seconds or so we have some form of escape. Try to bait these out before going for a heavy hit.

• Mesmers are extremely dodge-happy; we have to be in order to produce the clones we need for damage/defense. A good Mesmer is never gonna be easy to takedown, but a single dodge takes 10 seconds to recharge (5 with Vigor) so if you see a Mesmer dodge twice in 10 seconds then they’re vulnerable. Lifeblast our culo.

… Ah man. I am such a traitor.

I’ve considered Sword/Torch-Staff for a number of reasons:

• On demand AoE Chaos Armor.
• Obscene amounts of Protection to share.

And I definitely could see it working out as a PU variant with a bit less damage but more team utility, but the problem is that such a build would be a vaaastly different playstyle, so it’d be hard to judge.

The way the build is currently set up I can do respectable damage, peel/control enemies, share boons rapidly, consistently, facetank 2+ opponents, and still have plenty of mobility to move from point to point. A lot of that comes from having the Focus equipped, and while the torch offers a better personal defense (and potential to stack protection) I feel it’s too much of a sacrifice of my current playstyle to trade the focus for it.

However your variant does free up 10 points (from Inspiration) that I’d likely punt into Domination for Signet reduction. Combined with a Greatsword rather than Staff, you may have something realllyyy interesting on your hands.

May I add this to the stickied Mesmer handbook?

A lot of interesting ideas here, I was also thinking about maybe Scepter/Offhand – Scepter/Offhand. Was thinking about torment runes too, but I’d assume that’s actually a bit overkill on the Torment. Some thoughts I was throwing around ..

• It’s a bit hard to choose between Staff, Pistol, and Torch. Torch’s AoE burn application and stealth could be extremely useful, especially comboing Prestige + MantraHeal-BalthazarBurn. Pistol offers CC and can work really well with both Signet of Domination and Scepter for nailing Confusing Images. Pistol phantasm’s bleed application is no joke too… But.. but dat staff (thats wut she said). It probably offers the least damage of the three but a massive amount of defense/utility. Despite that, I’m leaning towards Scepter/Torch-Scepter/Pistol (or mayybe sword in there somewhere. We really need another 1h option. -_- )

• Runes of Balthazar would likely be best bet for the AoE burn and increasing burn duration from Staff/Torch.

• Of all the trait setups, I’m thinking either 4/4/0/0/6 or 0/4/4/0/6 may be best. Traiting into domination allows for a traited torch or shattered concentration as well as an additional 20% condition duration, but traiting into Chaos allows for Debilitating Dissipation and Bountiful Interruption/Chaotic Dampening.

The one question that I’m caught up on remains.. what will the build excel at? With the Scepter/Torch-Staff ; Balthazar Runes ; Doom/Hydromancy Sigils I see the potential for a lot of AoE condition damage, but would it be better than what a Necromancer/Engineer can offer? It’s more survivable than a standard shatter build, but will it do relatively comparable damage? Can it kill noticeably faster than a PU build?

And there’s the other rub…

Would traiting 30chaos for PU still be superior to any other condition variant? Will we be able to chase down opponents any better?

Of course, it doesn’t have to be better than any of our other … 3… ‘meta-ish’ builds ( 4/4/6 lockdown, 4/4/0/0/6 shatter, 4/4/6 PU) but if it can compare then we’re on to something.

So of our new traits, the only ones that really show any sort of potential are Power Block and Maim the Disillusioned. I wanted to see if we could put our heads together and come up with the most viable Torment Mesmer build possible. This would mean a couple things:

• Creating an effective Condition Mesmer that doesn’t rely on PU
• Incorporating Scepter & Maim the Disillusioned into a shatter-ish build.

I know that in theory Condition Mesmer are inferior to Shatter Mesmer due to Shatter’s damage being upfront and instant while Conditions take time and get smothered by other classes, but is anyone interested in seeing if we could carve out a niche for PU-less condi Mes?

Shock received!

I managed to squeeze some time out of my job to spend an hour making adjustments. I didn’t have time to incorporate everything I mentioned earlier, (I’m on my anet dev swag apparently) I did add the new traits and trait system.

You forgot the new schtick, the ever-condescending:

“What do you suggest would be good improvements?” /trololol

I miss Allie. At least she made it seem like she actually cared after asking a question like that with some decent feedback.

That’s an interesting build Veruah. I ran something similar before, but with 2 in Dueling rather than inspiration.

Out of curiosity… why scepter over sword? Also, with the focus you have on chill (and Mantra of Recovery), you’ll probably benefit more from Runes of Grenth than Runes of the Mesmer, but there will be a slight damage drop to gain the AoE chill-on-heal.

@Jackums Not a single person who posted defended anet or is happy with Mesmer in its current state. Some people just still enjoy playing the class despite its current state.

@Azo You’re right. I’m talking more from personal experience than objectively, but I don’t feel that because of the Mesmers current state that all the time spent on it was wasted. I’m pretty sure all of us here has had some awesome/memorable moments with the class. You know how anet works with their rollercoaster balancing though, I doubt we’ll be down forever. (says the guy who only plays like 3 hours a week x.x)

@Blackdevil you know when the ileap nerf hit, you were the first person I thought of. Lord knows how many hundreds of Mesmer also fell off due to that stupidity and I really hope that prompts some quick changes. (Its a small hope, but…) Come join us in PvP? The water here is only 67% kittened in… A vast improvement over WvW and PvE!

Edit: Nerf forum censorship plz. Urine is not a cuss. =/

What I meant is that despite the infraction-to-ban-worthy list of complaints I have about the game, I haven’t found a reason to abandon the class yet.

In PvP, I win more on Mesmer than I do on Elementalist, Thief, or Guardian because I’m better with the class. I don’t want to learn to go deeper into the other classes because their mechanics aren’t as fun as the Mesmer. Despite the nerfs I can still succeed the way I always have, I still enjoy trying out different builds, I still have a good time washing up baddies with my friends and for me that’s where my fun comes in.

I feel the problems with the game hold the class back more than the class itself. Confusion being nerfed, lameish dungeons, ect.

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

In most cases yeah. GS/Staff is a different playstyle that works for different people. It has its advantages over this build but this build also has advantages that GS/Staff doesn’t.

It really comes down to how you play and what feels best for you. The theoretical “if two people of exactly same skill were to run this build versus that build which would win?” question really doesn’t work here. Some people will naturally perform better with one build over another.

Definitely definitely go vote for our man Supcutie and our other man Helseth! Some of the best and most helpful Mesmer out there.

I still have the video of our 3 hours of Supcutie beating me up and telling me what I was doing wrong. =D

Helseth / Supcutie ftw of course.

Dat zombify though “My insanely good looks and rock hard pecks.” Pfft!

/hater

nxk! Sooo sorry! I meant to reply to your PM, got distracted by a tumbleweed, and it totally slipped my mind. =[ Your build is solid, but I’d recommend replacing Elasticity (Illusions VII) with Invigoration (VIII) so you can shatter more often, I think Invig will be a bigger boost to your damage, defense, and overall usefulness.

Jurica.1742:

It can work, the issue with it is it has sword. Sword was bad in PvP to begin with, with this nerf it’s almost 100% useless.
You have GS which is a good weapon to use for PvP, then sword and torch:
Sword
Autoattack – you never use it, it’s a good autoattack but you go in melee range in PvP and autoattack, you will take so much damage, you’re squishy, you get hit, it’s like being hit by a truck, autoattacking in melee range will get you hit a lot.
Blurred Frenzy – you can use it for defense but then again, is having an entire useless set worth this one skill? Offensively isn’t not too good. You go in, which you were able to do with ileap, but now, since the clone gets instakilled, you really can’t anymore, then either walk out of the point which takes time and you will take a lot of damage or blink out which is a big cd waste.
iLeap – It sucks now as the clone gets instakilled by cleave/aoe in PvP.
Torch
Prestige – Pretty much only good for escaping. You can use it to do a surprise stealth burst, even then, if we take that bf is actually good, you have 2 semi-ok skills on an entire weapon set vs. 4/5 on staff, + the staff skills are 100% useful, none are semi-ok, except the phantasm there.
Phantasm – plain out sucks..
Also, as a shatter mesmer, you don’t really go on point too often, you’re mostly ranging with greatsword, so sword basically is an unnecessary hassle Staff gives you more mobility, defense and utility than any other mh+oh weapon combo. The only 100% viable builds we have for PvP now are staff + gs lockdown (which is basically shatter but you take 6 out of illusions and put it in chaos then take interrupt traits to benefit from interrupting) and the shatter build. Oh, also PU condi but that one isn’t good for anthing other than sPvP and it takes a while to learn how to rotate with it ect.
I’d be more than happy to meet you in game and help you out with staff + greatsword shatter. I don’t know if you read my guide, if you didn’t do check it out, it should help you a lot with the build(It’s in my signature). I’d also recommend watching Lord Helseths stream. It will help you out a lot since he does explain what he does and why, what his role is ect. somewhat often, also, his kiting guide on foefire is a lot of help. You instantly become 5x better than you were when you start using those tips. Have a wonderful rest of the day mate!
Much love,

~Monns

I don’t really agree with a lot of this…

The sword is still a good weapon. The nerf hit it much harder for WvW than in PvP. Sword 3 isn’t useless, and people really shouldn’t be so dramatic about the change. It hurt, but it didn’t break Sword. Sword Auto is underrated and does good damage in addition to stripping a boon. While obviously you won’t be using it THAT often, being able to squeeze an extra 2k+ here and there really comes in handy and starts to add up. Each hit of Sword auto, if it crits, does over 1k and the final hit can nail around 2k if the enemy has no boons. Blurred Frenzy speaks for itself (dat retal tho) and sword 3 still works, it just has to be used more thoughtfully then just sending it out whenever you please.

The torch just rocks for PvP. Prestige alone makes it worth it -you can pull off some nasty shatter bursts with this and it makes for an excellent escape tool and our only BLAST Finisher- and the Phantasm is shatter fodder if nothing else.

Shatter Mesmer can fight on point, especially when using sword. Using Sword+Torch/GS gives you both powerful melee and ranged options and you should take advantage of both these tools depending on the situation. Jump into fights with a heavy Prestige shatter burst, bail out when you need, range with the GS before you get there or versus an opponent you don’t wanna melee (like a Warrior).

Halting Strike offers pretty good damage even in this build, definitely no arguments there, and I do agree that frequent Chaos Armor can be a big help… I’m just having a hard time seeing how this build differs from a standard shatter build beyond Veil and Null Field.

It looks to me like it’s more that your personal shatter playstyle is slightly different.

Guang I will body you in the new smash bros.

Hey Grey, I could be missing something due to the build link but… isn’t this a standard shatter build with some glamour utility support?

You have “phantasm/shatter/support” in the description and I definitely see the shatter/support aspect of it but… no real phantasm emphasis. The emphasis on Chaos Armor also seems somewhat misleading; you only have 1 way to combo Chaos Armor (Phase Retreat) and in a glassy shatter build you really don’t wanna get hit that much anyway – armor or not (same goes for retaliation).

You know, I don’t even think the devs were all on the same page when it came to whether or not this was a bug. What I think happened was that it was originally decided to be working fine and then somewhere along the line someone else decided it was a bug.

To those saying “look at the tooltip! it was clearly a bug” the tooltips are not the most reliable things to count on, and the devs don’t always realize what’s a bug and what’s not depending on the tooltip. For example…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

There was some confusion regarding the malicious sorcery + Illusionist’s celerity. I made a mistake. To clear things up, using combinations such as Wardens Feedback and Illusionist’s celerity shouldn’t double reduce phantasm skill cooldowns. I thought that was regarding that issue but I see it was for a mainhand trait.

~posting from home, apologies.

Tyler, doubling up on cooldown traits has been a feature since the beginning of the game.

Respectfully, I believe you’re badly mistaken.

The dev had assumed that the 40% cooldown reduction was a bug because of it not reflecting in the tooltip. Luckily Pyro helped prevent it from getting “fixed.” The same argument here could’ve applied there. “Look at the tooltip, it was obviously a bug!”

If the devs actually played the class, they’d know what a big nerf this is and there’s a chance the tooltip would’ve just been changed to “Swap places with the clone’s last position” or they could’ve exercised a bit of foresight and creativity by realizing how badly this hurts the class and instead changing the skill to be something more like “Feigned Surge” (Spear 2 I believe) where you leap forward rather than the clone and then teleport BACKWARDS to your last position, applying the immob in an AoE where you used to be.

And to those who don’t think the nerf really changed anything… I’m sorry to say but no matter how long you’ve been playing, you weren’t using the sword to it’s fullest potential (though technically it also depends on what gametype you play). There were a lot of creative tricks you could pull off with the teleport; one of the best techniques, especially for a Mes using CI, was sending the clone out, F3 shattering it, and swapping in behind the daze.

If there’s any bug to the skill, it’s the stunbreak. I’d rather that have gotten fixed rather than the asinine clone swap “fix.”

Veruah.5302:

@Chaos I’ve read a lot of your lockdown stuff as I’ve been leveling up. I come from a past of playing Enchanter in EQ so lockdown casters have always been a draw for me. Since I am so close to 80 I figure I may as well finish it out and see how it goes. I guess with the sword nerf I will try to make a GS/Staff lockdown build work.

@Swish I never realized how many limitations Power Block had. I figured it probably couldn’t lock out a #1 skill. Suddenly the other grandmaster trait there looks a lot more appealing (Chaotic Suggestions I think?).

To be honest, all that stuff about viability and how important a specific setup is only really starts to matter at the most competitive levels of PvP. In most cases you’ll be fine as long as your build is solid and you’re of decent skill. More often then not people like to blame the meta for their own personal faults. “Of course I lost, you’re a Hambow warrior.” or “Play a spec that takes skill” are usually the warcries of a wounded ego.

If you play lockdown Mesmer and you’re good at it, you’ll definitely be able to control opponents, you’ll have fun, and you will definitely find whatever way you need to be effective. Everything else is noise.

(Also, I’m still sticking with Sword/Focus – Staff. 1h Sword isn’t broken or bad in PvP, we just lost some of our fancy techniques with it.)

A lot of really touching responses guys, really swells the heart. Thanks so much! =) I’ll still be posting here and there. I’ve one last fiction to write up, I will get a video out once in my life >_< and will update the Grimoire at least one more time.

@Flinxe: I’ve been playing the game less and less, so it’s doubtful updates will be very frequent. However I do still have every intention of pumping out a video at some point in my life. x.x

@Zelulose: I actually hadn’t tried Knights. It feels too middle-ground for me. I like Zerk because it gives me just enough damage to be a considerable threat, and Soldiers because it makes me able to confidently bunker a point versus 2 or more. I feel like Knights is too weak in either category to make the build effective.

Whoa. o_O I know the sword 3 change was harsh but jeez, Swish.

@Veruah: Lockdown Mesmer used to be the top Mesmer build in PvP for a short time, after the recent changes it’s no longer at the very top because of, as usual, Thieves being a hard counter to Mesmer. Lockdown Mesmer are still a strong choice in the right hands, but are also still one of the hardest Mesmer builds to learn to play properly.

In WvW there’s different types of players: Solo Roamers (lone players running around making a difference), Small Group Roamers (Group of players running around making a difference), and Zerglings (Large blobs) pretty much. Lockdown Mesmer fit in best with a small group, but can solo roam decently depending on the build.

In PvP lockdown Mesmers work well when played well: singling out the right targets, interrupting heals and channeled skills, boon stipping/vuln stacking, ect. They’re very strong in 1v1 fights but work well in groups. You can and definitely should still shatter, but wherekittenter Mesmer shatter primarily for damage first/utility second, your shattering is aimed to strip boons first/damage second. Depending on the build you can aim disrupt groups or focus on locking a single target out of the fight. To answer your questions specifically:

• Are we needed in WvW/PvP Well … Not really, but the same could be said for most Mesmer builds at this point. It’s not that we’re not useful or can’t make a difference, but moreso that the roles that are “needed” (Bunker, Roamer, ect. depending on the gametype) can be filled by other classes. At the same time, no other class is as good as lockdown as Mesmer besides Engineer.

• Can we make a legit impact in a fight with our control abilities Most definitely. One of the things that’s good about Lockdown Mesmer is that a skilled control Mesmer can lockdown multiple opponents at once or lockdown one opponent while doing damage to the others. This combined with our boonstripping, the option to take portal, and good damage make us very able to swing fights in our team’s favor. Keep in mind though as a general rule, the smaller the fight the more effective the Mesmer is. (Power Block is kind of a let down though)

Swish brings up a good point: “Mesmer Interrupts are easy to chain and then all stuck on very long and inconsistent CD’s themselves.” This is one of the biggest mistakes a new lockdown Mesmer can make. It’s really fun and pretty rewarding to chain together your lockdown skills to keep an opponent stuck for an aggravatingly long time, but try not to get into such a habit. It’s better -but of course more difficult- to space out your interrupts and hold on to some (like a charge of Power Lock) to snuff key skills.

Shatter is the go-to build if you’re looking to be as meta-friendly and straightforward as possible and PU (defensive stealth-focused) builds can also work if you play intelligently. Lockdown Mesmer are uncommon, and good lockdown Mesmer are even less common, but the style is still fun and effective and can definitely be made to work when used properly… just not in Zergs or PvE. x.x

I would have had no problem if the stunbreak was fixed instead. THAT is more of a bug than the clone port.

What we have here, now, is the worst and most unreliable leap of all classes.

I feel bad for all the sylvari with branch-heads.

zaxon.6819:

“dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining”

Stealing this. All the ladies will giggle at my wit.

The reason why this is such an outrage isn’t necessarily whether or not if it was a bug, it’s with how brainlessly it was handled:

• Swag Captain has only been playing Mesmer for a week and noticed the ‘bug’ with iLeap. How did any testing dev miss this for two years? I don’t believe they did. I believe it was intended and the tooltip was misleading.

• I use this example a lot, but the original concept of “combos” in the first Street Fighter wasn’t intended. It started as a bug players exploited in the game and was such a positive improvement that it became part of the system when Street Fighter 2 dropped. Just because something is a “bug” doesn’t mean it has to be removed, it should be taken into consideration of what the bug is actually doing beforehand.

iLeap’s previous functionality made it a more creative and skill-reliant ability, and now this “fix” encourages spamming it as quickly as possible. I refuse to believe that with things like a bugged out iWarden, Illusionary Elasticity, porting through walls, ileap pathing, and the other 20+ actually crippling bugs we face, that this ileap fix became a real priority. What annoys me is that if any of the balance devs actually played the class they’d see what a silly change this is.

“Bug” or not, they could’ve just as easily fixed the tooltip rather than changing the skill.

Turns out that email address won’t work X_x gawd. I’ll have to make a new one.

Again ty for the support all! Like I said I’m not leaving though (and jenzie I definitely recognize ya. I think we’ve spoken atleast once in the past =P) I’m with Fay in hopes that one day everything will improve with time… Or an expansion.