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run lyssa runes on s/d. run ogre on d/p. the major dps condis that you will clear on d/p is from your heal. if you get nuked, use shadowstep to clear the rest or refuge to buy some time – try to avoid using refuge though. with d/p get used to using shadowstep (to gain distance for the 1sec cast of heal) + heal + shadowstep if you really screw up with anything (it will most likely confuse your opponent, and the combo will also clear six condis off if needed). also, steal from necros: their steal is great. get used to using shortbow as well – this is probably the best advice.
Don’t ever put points into shadow arts for spvp – bad idea.
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HS spammers.
If there are any truely HS spammers out there that anyone is fighting against, then just simply use a cripple or a chill. They won’t be able to touch anyone and they will blow through their initiative quickly.
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Uri, the usual rotation for a thief, if the target is paying absolutely no attention that a thief is around, is to blackpowder, heartseeker + steal into backstab. Then usually the thief will switch to shortbow and use a few point blank clusterbombs to overload any late blinds, stealth, clones, aegis, etc. that get thrown up.
It is a lot harder to pull off blackpowder -> heartseeker + steal if the target is actually paying attention to what is going on. So they might blackpower into heartseeker, sit in stealth (and maybe apply bassi venom while in stealth), then backstab+steal or port signet. It does less damage, but is more unpredictable. If they sit in refuge for a while, they usually follow up with a bassi’ed backstab.
Keep in mind, this is all assuming backstab plays. There are many plays that a trickery thief can use that require shortbow. Depending on the situation, a thief might weapon switch to shortbow while in stealth.
Also as a side: To those necros out there, if you’re against a good thief, don’t place all your staff skills on one spot and sit in them. A good thief will dodge + steal into it to remove them.
Thieves don’t just steal for the mug.
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I’m not excited. The game balance in this game is a mess.
You are so all over the board right now, I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. We go from WvW, to spvp, to 1v1, to game modes that don’t exist. So go ahead and have your rage session. Take it out on me if you want, that’s fine. The answers are there, you just have to take advantage of them.
Venomshare builds are bad as they require the thief to stick with the main group. They will not crop up to any significant margin. D/P trickery will get a buff, which might be good or bad. It might make it stupid easy to play, which would be a bad thing. D/P is probably the most balanced spec in the game right now and all builds should be as balanced as D/P trickery, but with their own different play-styles. S/D will probably still exist, but would require a bit more skill to pull off, which is a good thing.
[…] maintaining high defense and still critting 6k backstabs on high toughness specs.
The only person who runs Cruuk’s build in tpvp is Cruuk. Stealth builds preform poorly in prolonged fights on points in spvp because they cannot contest them. In spvp, it is virtually impossible to one-shot backstab someone unless the thief is running a terrible build and their target is also light armor glass. For all your other concerns regarding backstab in spvp, this:
“You’re asking why a glass cannon can hit you like a truck when you can turn around and do the same thing to them. […] you can directly counter a thief with proper use of Blind, Aegis, Focus Shield, Invulnerability, Retaliation, Counter Pressure (Burst), Crowd Control (Pull, Immobilize), Large amounts of burning, AoE, etc. If I had to choose the most direct counter to my class it would be a DPS Guardian.
As for other classes such as Elementalists, Mesmers, etc. They put out more damage more often, along with providing more team utility. [L2P]" – Caed
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I miss DAoC… Such a great game.
While a Warrior can roam, he doesn’t have access to shadow refuge (the most powerful ability for roamers) to slip away from zergs. With his easy access to cleave abilities, high health, and armor his role just simply serves a better purpose in a large-scale battle. Just like a Thief can run in a large-scale battle, but cannot stand toe-to-toe unless the enemy is caught offguard – backline disruptor. A thief’s role serves better as a roamer in WvW. This is called opportunity cost.
You do not need perma-stealth to roam. You just need to have some brains to figure out where you are needed most, and know where the enemy zerg is in relation to you and your roaming team.
Effective roamers are usually the reason why a zerg server can take an entire map in 15 mins. It’s just unfortunate that the rewards are not scaled as such so most people avoid roaming. Most people are just after that wixpie. For those who want to have a personal enjoyment in knowing that their efforts are the primary reason why their server holds an entire map, then for those people they choose roaming over getting as much wixpie as possible. Of course there are others out there who simply want to gank people – those would be the perma-stealth thieves who care little about how their server is doing, and more about how many people they can take on outnumbered. Good Riddance.
A system designed to actually support having teams of roamers in WvW instead of solo-gankers concerned only for themselves and their personal kill record… hmm, what a thought.
Looking forward to seeing 4-man roamer teams: 2 wars, 2 thieves. Wars bring killshot and speed boosts, thieves bring the stealth and immobs. Sniper team 10 gogo.
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Doesn’t matter. In an open field without the worry of contesting points […]
Skill balance should not be dictated via WvW where everyone gets insane stat bonuses. L2P.
Well done Haltair, well done. Clearly you’ve shown a lot about the general forum-goer here today and, as an aside, I would welcome more links. k thx bai.
This thread. Much grace. Such philosophy.
D/P will still perform fine. In the hands of a decent thief S/D can outperform D/P, but in the hands of a great thief, D/P outperforms in every aspect.
There is nothing that these changes have done, that have significantly neutered D/P, or even GOOD (emphasis on good/great) S/D thieves.
^ This. D/P (non-perma-stealth) is quite possibly the most balanced spec in the game right now.
In fact, this potential change might break the weapon set into stupid mode – which would be tragic, but in line with what Anet does. 1 initiative per second is a pretty big deal.
Checkmate atheists.
Heee XD
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The blinds and much higher damage on d/p easily makes up for having less evades.
Of course this is true – so is the effectiveness of using the shortbow, dazes, stealth, and dodging efficiently. We are talking about spamming skills and not the effectiveness of blinds. Sure if a person is dumb (like a REALLY dumb warrior who sits in blackpowder), placing a blackpowder field every four seconds is usually good enough to deal with him. However if you spam anything in d/p against a good player you are going to run out of initiative fast. You simply do not sit on point and press 6 every four seconds with a d/p trickery thief fighting someone who is not brainless. You also do not just 6 + 2 every 4 seconds ether.
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I’m having the same problems. I feel the communal pain.
I don’t know about any other players, but I’ve been experiencing a crap ton of skill lag and really just lag in general. I rubberband like the rest – now even more frequently than ususal.
It’s annoying in spvp because it usually means you go through initiative rather quickly, or you don’t use a skill at a critical time. GG anet. Wonderful coding team you got there.
spam.
If a person mindlessly spams anything in d/p trickery, they’re bad and they will die or be forced to peel against another good player. There is no direct initiative management beyond trickery 5, infiltrator signet, and crit strikes 15.
S/D needs a higher skill ceiling and this isn’t helping it.
Yes it is. Limiting the amount of evades capable is not a new concept. Even people like gutz and supcutie suggest it.
^ This. In a world where you can potentially get 14k backstabs with a health pool of 20k just through the gear and consumables you bring, there is no reason why anyone should be complaining. These changes just mean they might have to learn some cross-weapon combos and learn some type of group dynamic.
How is that possible if s/d is so faceroll OP/easy? They both reward good play and punish bad.
This really is not hard to understand. One has perma-evade, the other does not. In one you have to be as unpredictable as possible, you have to land your interrupts on important skills and land your steals, you have to use cross-weapon combinations to pull things off effectively, you have to count dodges, you have to know when to go on the offensive and when to go on the defensive. In the other, you have to press 3 for dayz with a few 1+dodge thrown in with a 2 setup if something goes wrong. It is not hard to play s/d for similar reasons why it’s not hard to play a Warrior who doesn’t have to worry about activating his heal skill. Only Warrior is even worse of a cheese offender because he has a higher health pool, more armor, and a potential 3 condition condi clear on burst.
There is NO differentiation between a bad S/D player and a good one. Hopefully these changes WILL introduce some type of differentiation between a good S/D player and a bad one. Hopefully the bad ones will have to peel more often, reducing dps pressure. There are reasons why upper-level players left the game, and S/D theefs are part of that reason.
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They will become useless like the improvisation trait.
This is completely offtopic, but improv is actually a really good trait.
You’ve got to understand environment modeling to be truly safe.
The best ports are completely out of the norm of what you would expect. The clocktower shadowshot tp or roof tp; or forest of niffelhelm midpoint back ledge port from bottom of stairs as examples. It’s far more important to know the “hotspots” than it is to follow a modelling rule.
Reasons don’t matter
Yes they do matter.
[The] results indicate D/P + shortbow is now subpar and barely viable for tournament play.
This is SO not true.
Most of it is because other meta professions are just plain stronger though. Hambow, spirit ranger, condi necro.
Which is being addressed in the patch.
Bottom Line: S/D is boringly easy to play. It’s getting nerfed – hopefully to a state where the good players will be able to sustain pressure and the bad players will have to peel more frequently. On the other hand, d/p shortbow actually takes some skill. It’s not getting touched (other than opportunist). In fact, some say it’s getting a buff.
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If all 3 are in check, you’re good to go.
Lol this really isn’t true though. Just like it isn’t true of the typical saying, “If you can walk there, then you can port there.” The way porting works in this game is still very haphazard. I like it and hate it at the same time. I fall in love with classes/games that have nitch tricks to them and that is one reason why I main thief. Yet it’s still pretty haphazard as to figuring out what you can port to.
Is that why all the s/d thieves in tpvp play warrior?
People, not just people who played thief, play warrior right now because it’s the highest level of stupid good.
However, to put it lightly, as much as people on this whole gw2 forum think 5-man warrior teams are the new meta right now, they’re not.
For example, as much as supcutie would love to run his mesmer in a tourny, he knows he can’t so he runs S/D thief. It provides the least amount of work/risk to reward right now. Even if D/P takes more skill to run. This is the primary reason why so many upper-level people are complaining about the game right now – it takes no skill => it’s not competitive => it’s boring.
I play d/p trickery based most the time but s/d won’t have the dps to compensate for the nerfs it has received lately.
By bringing down the amount of initiative regen they can attain, the idea is that the good players will not have trouble sustaining dps pressure while the bad players will and have to peel more frequently.
It’s on dec 10th. We all have no idea how these changes, not just thief changes, will play with one another. Or even if some of them are actually going to arrive on the due date. To me, this is a promising change to the class, as well as other classes, but I’m skeptical as always.
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Caed had a tough time at PAX for a whole host of reasons. None of which involved him bringing d/p shortbow, or how he used them.
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I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: If this forces S/D thieves to actually think about what they’re dodging, then I’m all for it. If things go as planned, bad ones will have to peel more frequently and the good ones will maintain dps pressure. I’m still skeptical about the potential patch though since we haven’t seen the initiative “flow” yet.
I, among others, raised an eye at opportunist.
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If you are not using SB as i explained (teleport/evade/combo finisher/sometimes aoe cleave) and you just sit your kitten using it during all the fight you are doing it wrong.
No. This is just wrong. Like blatantly wrong. Like not even listening wrong.
But maybe all the top ranked thieves or 1 year + experienced thieves out there that use SB as secondary weapon are just wrong whileyou are right using it as main weapon, thats totally helpful for your team #sarcasm
Get better reading comprehension before you reply.
I agree that d/p permastealth needed to go (should have been done a LONG time ago) and that something needed to be done to the dual s/d 3-spamming build. It kind of sounds like you’re suggesting then that s/d thieves go back to a variant of the stealth stun build from a year ago. There are reasons that’s no longer used- it also got nerfed to no longer be effective in pvp.
On the contrary. I don’t know what S/D will do since I don’t play it in its current state – its too mind numbingly boring and easy. Secondly, I don’t think S/D will be permanently dead (again I’m not on the sky-is-falling bandwagon). They just won’t be able to maintain the mindless unrelenting amount of pressure they once had. I look at that as a good thing. The main role of S/D is to have sustainable dps pressure, but in its current form it’s too over-the-top without any need to think about what you’re dodging. Or even if you’re dodging things. Also, this is more of an aside, for some reason most people seem to have it in their heads that Shortbow is trash for anything else other than a defensive set – this is SO incorrect. So ultimately if this forces people to try and find cross-weapon combos for these brainless thief builds, then I’m all for these changes.
In terms of S/P, I have no clue. I’ve only found a few people who can make it work for them – using it more as a side weapon for shortbow, but that thing is just “wonky” from the get-go.
So I’d really like to hear from you, what builds are left […]
D/P trickery doesn’t rely at all on just sitting in blackpowder. It also doesn’t rely at all on perma stealthing. Hell, it doesn’t rely on running D/P all the time and never weapon switching (or rather never needing to weapon switch). If played correctly, it uses both weapons equally as efficiently. It doesn’t have perma vigor or evades ether. It still does great. The only reason why many people don’t run the manly build D/P trickery over S/D is because S/D is so stupid good right now. S/D in its current state has almost single-handedly shut out certain classes from the metagame. If this change ether forces S/D thieves to watch what they’re dodging, or forces them to peel if they’re not, then I’m all for it.
As for the other issues in the meta right now, it’s too early to tell what the new patch will bring. I’m not getting my hopes up, I’m a skeptic, but we’ll see.
——
In terms of WvW, this is great news. Roamers might actually have to think about some type of teamwork instead of durping through blackpowder fields all day.
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Than you main melee weapon set you are totally doing it wrong.
No, you are wrong. L2P shortbow. There is no “main”. Especially with the trickery build.
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There will always be the “Meta” build, STOP HATING we just lost some of our only meta builds while other classes gets to keep there builds.
Seriously, lol learn how to use a shortbow other than skill 5 – you might even actually have to use cross-weapon combos. HUH? No wai! 2 hard. perma-stealth and perma-evade is straight up cheese builds. They’re sponsored by Kraft it’s so cheesy.
Maybe we might actually get people who are good at the game crop up for once.
For you WvW roamers, you might actually have to get some type of a group dynamic going for once :o the thought of actually working as a team!? NUUUU!!!
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First, Caed never used perma stealth thief – they’re dumb and indicative of bad players. Secondly, Caed quit because the game is boring to him and because there isn’t any competitive play anymore due to crappy game balance – not because his build sucks. Hopefully this change will encourage some more team co-ordination, because the game needs more of it.
Everyone needs to quit crying and l2p shortbow.
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Bad
-Inf return cast time
-Init traits remain where they are – the point of better base init regen is to give us more trait options that help define the spec, not leaving them in place just kittentier.
-Evasion reduction without offering us some other survivability options. If anet feels thieves evade too often, they need to offer us some other way to survive in fights – just nerfing vigor uptime leaves an already squishy class with less options. Combined with the Inf return cast time, it seems S/D will become completely unforgiving.
-Inf return cast time
This is actually a good thing. This means S/D thieves would actually have to use stealth (dagger 5) to pull off Shadow Return flawlessly – not easy to do when you’re stunned (but you still can use shadow return w/o stealth), which is a good thing. It also demands other specs other than S/D : S/D which is pure cheese. Anything that brings more skill usage other than skill 3 and the occasional skill 2 in S/D is a good thing. Tactical Strike is still trash tho and S/P is hit with this, but not hard. Most good S/P builds I’ve seen are used more as a side-weapon for other weapons like Shortbow.
-Init traits remain where they are
They are making a broad change with general increase in init regen, while reducing the effectiveness of certain init regen skills. I think its too early to see how it will “flow”, but it looks promising to me. d/p perma-stealth (and perma-evasion s/d thieves) is for players who are bad at the thief class anyway.
-Evasion reduction
I don’t think decreasing vigor duration is going to be THAT bad. It will be a pain for S/D thieves sure, but I’m fine with that. They need to think more about what they are doing during a fight.
Overall, I’m skeptic about this patch, but I’m not on the sky-is-falling bandwagon. If this patch introduces more need for team co-ordination, then I’m all for it. The major thing I’m kittening about is the changes to Ranger. Unbound spirits as a major trait? Wtf?
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Quit crying and l2p the actual thief class. Not this stupid d/p or s/d cheese in WvW or spvp respectively.
The hypothesis is that Berserker Amulet outperforms Barbarian Amulet, and as it offers nothing but pure damage this translates into: Berserker Amulet has enough damage to justify it over a Barbarian Amulet, which grants HP as well as the same crit rate.
No that is NOT a hypothesis that you can test, as it is currently. That isn’t refined at all.
There is no variance because I use the exact same build, exact same skill, and exact same weapon for both tests. The weapon used was Steady, meaning no variation in the damage it can do.
No there IS statistical variance.
Shooting 1 Arcing Arrow will net the same results as shooting 1,000 in this case.
No no no no no. This is all wrong. Just all wrong. Again, you do not test the statistical accuracy of a coin flip by flipping it 2 times.
The only possible variables or deviation would be in testing with other builds or amulets, however I’m comparing the effects of both amulets on this one build.
No this is wrong.
I’m not shoving personal bias down anyone’s throat. I’ve stated many times, very clearly, that I want an actual discussion.
No you don’t. You clearly have no interest in figuring this out because you constantly constantly provide absolutely terrible testing methods. It is quite obvious you know little to nothing about statistical testing.
If I was bias I’d say “Yeah man, Warriors aren’t OP and you just suck. I don’t care what your reason is just get out. Warriors 4 lief homiezzz”
You apparently haven’t heard of politicians or lobby groups before. You think they win arguments with their lies by saying, “U suck”?
I don’t need to test crap. The burden of proof is on you, not me.
For christ sake, here is a template of what I’m looking for:
This was from 3 months ago and my questions have been resolved regarding this issue.
You typically have at least 35 trials since its the “magic number” in statistics, but because I succinctly defined my hypothesis, I can test the accuracy rather easily if I had less number of trials. Also note: I’ve set this all up so YOU can run the tests yourself so you can get the exact same numbers that I do. I’ve posted my data set IN the post as well.
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I showed the results of damage tests using both amulets, unless you can point out where that went wrong you should probably stop behaving like a child.
Lol. The insults. Wow.
Determining the sample size
- A sampling size of 1 regular and one critical hit will be used per amulet, as the results can’t change due to a lack of variables.
THIS is wrong. You don’t preform any statistical observation on the statistical accuracy of flipping a coin by flipping it 2 times.
Beyond that, your data collection is sloppy. Not well-defined. Haphazard. And overall just bad. No expected hypothesis. No Expected Damage calculation. No variance calculation. No standard deviation calculation. No confidence interval. No CHECKING your hypothesis. It’s just a straight up bad “testing” methodology. The same can be said for your “videos”.
All of this shows you have absolutely NO interest in actually finding out what is going on, and instead just trying to shove your personal bias down everyone’s throats. Now people are throwing up on you and you’re yelling at them for doing so!
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Original Poster, just don’t play 8v8 hotjoin. The maps are not designed to support this playstyle and it’s pretty stupid that Anet allows this to happen – since for most people it’s the start of playing spvp. Ether play soloq (you will run into 4v5’s though) or 5v5 hotjoin. At most, if you decide to defend a point, you might get a 1v3 but that’s only if the team you’re against is bad. Any higher, and the team is REALLY bad.
So yeah shouldnt ANET have statistics and data on almost every kitten warrior fight out there?
You don’t need to. That’s why statistical sampling exists, and why alpha testers exist.
Berserkers stance granting immunity to poison + HS+AH+CI+UF+7s Burst skill CD+Independent Burst skills between weapons + guaranteed condition cleansing Via LB Burst (I’ve made arguments on HS+AH+CI and BS before, but the more I think about it, the more the other points show themselves to be part of the issue, IMO).
This is why I’m always hesitant to say how to adjust any given class. Usually, what seems obvious to most isn’t really so obvious. Really what matters is the dynamic synergy. I’ve said this about S/D thief before as well. The trick is to find a way to make skill-full play exist without nerfing something to the ground. Anet unfortunately hasn’t shown this yet – which is my major gripe against them. Moreover, they sweep it under the rug with poor communication skills – which gets people even more frustrated.
Again, I’m hesitant to offer any actual “fixes” though because I just don’t know. I leave that to the more experienced. However even in the top tier players, there isn’t an exact consensus on certain things, just a general unhappiness on the lack of skill needed in this game stemming from many general issues.
“1. Attack a target with a skill of choice using the amulet of choice.
2. Record both base and critical damage. (Chance isn’t factored as the chance is the same with either amulet)
3. Attack the same target with the same skill using the other amulet.
4. Record both base and critical damage.
5. Calculate the difference between base and critical damages respectively.
6. Get whined at on the forums.”
Oh god, just please read the article on statistical sampling. You’re making me facepalm here.
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If you can achieve 100% crit chance with executioner’s, then that’s fine xbyte. The general idea is to just breach a certain threshold to merit bringing executioner’s.
However, just so we’re both aware xbyte, the primary way to increase your raw damage is to increase your power. This is why you see most people run zerker gear. From Guild Wars 2 Wiki :
“In almost all cases, raising power is the most efficient way to increase direct damage”
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Your “testing” methodology is horrendous and this thread is largely a waste of space. Zanryu, reading this might help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_%28statistics%29
Seriously, this thread is so full of stupid.
I think you are using the wrong metaphors again. How does letting others speak their ideas to someone related to asking someone inexperienced to operate on you?
There is actually a huge body of work in statistics which talks about this very issue and forms a fundamental cornerstone in the field. Essentially, a guy named Frank Ramsey mathematically proved that it’s true people have beliefs, but most people don’t really believe in those beliefs unless they take them truly seriously. You might yell at your monitor when your computer is acting up, but do you really believe that the computer will respond to you? Of course not, so why do you yell at your computer? In fact, most of your beliefs (and mine) are ill-considered, but it’s because you’re not a fool. Your time and energy are limited and it would make more sense to just pick ideas from a few well-chosen areas. Thus we go to a guy who knows a lot about computers, not your grandma who knows very little, to get advice for your new laptop. Fortunately though, most of our beliefs really don’t matter. You can believe in the most outlandish ideas in the PvP game of guild wars 2, but that still doesn’t make you a bad player at PvE. You can still be a great person to talk to.
So you may not believe in what an upper level players have to say (or be wishy-washy about it), but at the very least don’t believe if you press your accelerator in your car, your car will stop – it’s important to at least get that right.
Quite frankly, most people (especially on video games) really don’t take themselves very seriously or treat what they advocate as important. They may think they do, they may say they do, but they really don’t. So in a world like gaming, experience holds a lot of weight to help reveal the true beliefs of a person and how seriously they treat their posts. Thus it is a “safe bet” to assume that most people who truly take the time and energy to deeply think hard about some topic, will end up with a quality conclusion.
Thus this is the reason why you get metaphors about how at the very least please don’t accept plastic surgery from a “doctor” from Mexico, from other players.
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You do know immobilize is a condition and can be cleansed yes ?
If you’re going to be snarky, at least understand fully the in’s-and-out’s of what you’re talking about.
Condi cleanse takes certain conditions as priority – similar to boon stripping (stab then prot are the first boons, always, to be removed). For some weird reason, that anet has yet to explain, immob is actually pretty far down that list for priority cleansing. This makes absolutely no sense at all, since immob is such a powerful condition. In fact, priority cleanse (and priority boon stripping) makes absolutely no sense at all period.
In any case, rarely is it a situation where you can just simply cleanse immob with any cleanse.
Also, as an aside, the longest immob I’ve seen was from Five Gauge with a 1 min 24 second immob on his engi.
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Actually, 0-30-30-10-0 is a good, solid build for any backstab thief, be it D/P (permastealth) or D/D (higher bursts, less versatility).
I know.
Well if you don’t go 30 in crit, you at least need 15 for initiative management. I wouldn’t advise going 20 pts deep into shadow arts unless you wish to run a perma-stealth build. If that is the case, then go full 30 in shadow arts.
Honestly, I love the concept of stealth on steal, but there are better traits to take in the line. Especially since shadow arts is really only viable for perma stealth thieves (30 pts).
As a fellow thief, I can also tell you that if you can land an interrupt on their heartseeker immediately after their blackpowder goes down, then you will be in a very good position. Point blank shot is perfect for this.
Zeke, if the target had above 50% health before you dropped him down to 1/4 health, then the next attack will apply the added damage.
Lol so much whining about WvW. A world where every class can achieve ridiculous stats and where it’s common to have 25 on 25 man fights – yeah let’s balance any class around that.
A world so broke, that all you need to do is to bring a perplexity spammer and spam interrupts on the perma thief so he cant use his heartseeker.
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Who other than warriors or guardians has 3000 armor without dumping 30 points into their Toughness traitline? I’m running Dire exotics with ascended accessories with toughness on them and I don’t have 3,000 armor.
I play a full berserker thief as my main – 12.5k health on a good day and zero armor benefits. I don’t need 3,000 armor to survive a thief backstab. I use my stunbreak/teleport (shadowstep) to gain some distance, heal up, then port back to recover.
Infact I would argue to anyone that you shouldn’t rely on armor against any type of burst class – it’s there to help sustain the fight, but not to say, “I have a rock and you have scissors! I win!”
Instead, get familiar with the skills and utilities that your class has to defend itself from these types of attacks. Every class has them – get familiar with them.
One stunbreak/fear/stealth/invulnerability skill/whatever into a self heal, maybe a dodge in between, would solve all your problems, original poster. If a thief is hitting you this hard, and you are not an uplevel, he is specifically designing his entire build around this much damage. You should have been able to easily get away even after the backstab via some type of stunbreaker/fear/teleport/whatever – assuming you were completely offguard. Secondly, the fact that you wern’t hit by a heartseeker (since most bad thieves build their “ultra mega” burst around it), I can only assume you were standing completely still. Secondly, he literally has no effective means of escape if he is building his build completely around attaining this much damage against a fully armored target – which there is no proof that this is even the case, since you don’t provide that. Even if he is running with a shortbow offhand, he will ether have enough initiative to shortbow 5 away or go into stealth. He will not have enough initiative to do both. He cannot have shadow refuge, and he cannot have shadowstep to help get away because this would cut into his “ultra mega” damage. Also, in order to switch weapons, you need to be out of combat – which is not such an effortlessly easy task to do so there is absolutely no reason to mention d/p perma-stealth thieves at all in your post, reflecting your current complaint.
Finally, this is obviously a WvW case and if this damage is seriously possible on a tanky class, which I highly doubt and you provide no proof to counter this, then all I have to say is that it’s WvW. WvW is beyond any type of balance which is inherent in its over-the-top stats.
(edited by Chicago Jack.5647)
Which is better depends a lot more on your attacks patterns, and how much of your damage comes from your “From Stealth” attacks than your crit chance.
Well, I’m sorry but I won’t have a discussion with random numbers as examples – that will serve nether of us any good.
You are right on certain aspects though, there is absolutely no reason to believe that someone who runs with full Valkyrie with Hidden Killer will deal more damage overall than someone who runs with Executioner’s. This is implied in the assumptions and I should have mentioned that more explicitly, I guess. There is a reason why this number should be considered a general rule, back of the napkin, calculation – which is why I mentioned that. The extremes will never work out correctly and this is obvious. On the other extreme, we shouldn’t be creating builds to ONLY search for targets below 50% health. The benefit from this number is it’s easy to calculate and gives a general baseline on what someone should be aiming for, if they want to deal more damage with Executioner’s in a reasonable build that demands a look into whether a person should bring Executioner’s or Hidden Killer. There IS a breakline in crit chance that we should be looking for though, and a simple Expected Damage calculation and comparison gives proof of this.