Guild Wars 2

Cutepicshunter, that’s not precise enough for me, especially when skill floor is used as evidence to nerf rangers as hard as they just did. Do you understand english well enough to know the word “precise”? Do you understand the difference between a formal and informal defintion? Your hyperbole is too informal.

Will you play spirits after this change? Yes or no, keep it short ty.

Well no just running from mob to mob the spirit will be down forever. There won’t be any spirit rangers after this, they completely gutted it.

How so? Buffed? Wut

Is there any reason to take spirits in a dungeon now? That CD is going to be extremely painful. I guess I’ll have to rotate spirits OOC unless anet nerfed that too. Can’t have anything like that! Eat your CD silly ranger!!!

Not only that, there’s also people asking for pets to not count for aoe limit of 5. Lol I’ll tell ya what, nothing gets the community going lile a good ol ranger nerf.

All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.
Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.
Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

Seriously? Haha GG spirits? Or maybe not. It might not be so bad.

Thoughts?

I do have something constructive to post: I disagree. Short and simple. Fair?

Oh I guess I’m stupid. Nice ad hominem. If you don’t know what that means, perhaps you are the stupid one? Just a thought.

Lol I was struggling at coming up with an analogy, give me a break. You see the issue though right? That we’re all discussing an ill-defined concept and then making balance changes based on that? Just my opinion, that’s all.

evilapprentice.6379:

Chopps.5047:

Yay another nerf demand for pet classes. Don’t want the pet being useful at absorbing aoe for allies. That’s about all they’re good for now, might as well nerf that too.

When 1 Player can field enough pets to fill the AoE limit, there’s an issue.

You’ll also note I made no demands. It was a question, looking for opinions, not whiny BS.

Ok ok it’s not a demand. But seriously, stop asking for spirit nerfs. If we can’t even absorb aoe for allies might as well get rid of spirits altogether.

Yay another nerf demand for pet classes. Don’t want the pet being useful at absorbing aoe for allies. That’s about all they’re good for now, might as well nerf that too.

Fair enough. Then define the minimum effort a novice needs to put in to understand how to play a build. Where do we draw the line? (see the logical issue here?)

Hicci.8761:

What about guardians?

Gaurdians can remove 30 conditions aoe with shouts, spam blind, spam stability, spam knockback, and they get the line pull. But hey, guardians aren’t OP spirit rangers are. Get with the program.

But what is the minimum level of skill required for something to be nerfed? Your attempt at a defintion—brave of you because it’s very subjective like you said—fails because you’re referencing the skill floor itself. It’s a bit like saying “what car do I need to get to work” and answering “the car that gets you there”.

Nuka Cola.8520:

What’s the problem? You want all ranged weapons to be 900 range since SB range decreased from 1200 to 900?

Did I say that? That’s an odd interpretation of my question.

I hear a lot about how healing signet warrior is easy to play, spirit ranger is easy to play, and, personally, I feel power wellomancer is easy to play. So they have a low skill floor. I challenge the community to come up with a reasonable definition of ‘skill floor’. Spoiler: I believe it’s a nebulous term that cannot be satisfactorily defined to really mean something. Prove me wrong; I don’t have the brain cells to burn in this question anymore. Lol it’s kind of vexing and makes you think deeper about your perceptions and/or what you think.

Excalibur.9748:

it’s a really low skill cap build. pure cheese and no skill.

It’s easier to play than spirit ranger but I think all these skill floor arguments are bunk. Define easier to play, right? Define skill floor? These are nebulous concepts. Do I use them in speech? Yes. Did I just say this warrior build is easy to play? Yes. But I can’t even define ‘easy to play’ thoroughly or claim that I understand what skill floor really means. I believe skill floor arguments are bunk for this reason.

Gw2 is easy to play. It was designed that way.

Blimm.5028:

Rangers are the most broken op thing in the tPvP universe, no skill/risk, high reward.
This is PvP forums, and the only thing likely to be nerfed bout rangers is spirits, wich suck in PvE anyway so calm down.

Frost spirit is huge in dungeon play. Wellomancers are easier to play spirit rangers. Skill floor argument is bunk.

EM waves maybe. Try making waves in pitch once. By the way, you ever see the Pitch Drop Experiment? Cool stuff.

Interesting thoughts jericho, thank you for being intelligent and informative rather than combative.

Dojo.1867:

Chopps.5047:

Again, I said this before, but, seriously, Jon, “The Wire?” What is this 2008? I think the devs work so hard they can’t even watch TV. Go hire some people for the love of Dwyana.

Do you only watch shows when they air? I find watching older shows much more relaxed because you don’t have to wait like 1 week for each new episode.

I was joking :p

You guys in the spvp forums all need to
A) stop taking yourselves so seriously
B) learn to laugh a little

Dirame.8521:

Chopps.5047:

Stability needs a giant, massive nerf bat. It is by far the best boon in the game because, for a short duration, it completely negates 1/3 of the trinity: control.

Blind, immob, cripple, chill. Those are also forms of control so you’re wrong.

I disagree because of definitions. I always thought control was defined as crowd control. Your citations appear, according to my own criteria which is apparently wrong, to be conditions that provide support to the team by denying the enemy’s ability to attack. Crowd control denies control period. Stun, knockback, daze, fear: all 100% negated by stability. I’m allowed to have an opinion that stability should stack sort of like defiant, aren’t I? Maybe I’m wrong. At least I’m not mean and bullheaded like most of the people on the spvp forums. Really, this place is a bit of a cesspool recently.

No wonder the mods delete so many posts on here. You guys are presumptuous and nasty. Darnis, I wish I was as smart as you dude. You’re so cool. I bet you’re really good at tapping buttons on a keyboard. Nice.

Darnis.4056:

I’m answering *your* statements...
if you didn’t want a contradiction then, I’m sorry?

Also after 100 edits it’s hard to see what OP is asking.

Edit: No, actually it’s not hard to see;
It’s really a whine;
Why did you nerf my shortbow but the big bad mesmer gets to keep his 1200 range?

I only edit to add stuff to comments / fix typos. Darnis, relax. Breath. I’m not mad about shortbow, if you read posts on ranger forums, I was one of probably 3 people who thought it was a smart change to make shortbow 900. I’m just learning about other classes and learning about mesmer greatsword seemed contradictory. I still haven’t seen you do anything but attack me when all I asked was for logic as to why. "Whiner...big bad mesmer" you’re really mean dude. Go fly a kite.

You might want to meditate a little, RyuDragnier. The blanket nerf is coming. Raging/stressing out is bad for your health, it’s not worth it.

Stability needs a giant, massive nerf bat. It is by far the best boon in the game because, for a short duration, it completely negates 1/3 of the trinity: control.

Again, I said this before, but, seriously, Jon, “The Wire?” What is this 2008? I think the devs work so hard they can’t even watch TV. Go hire some people for the love of Dwyana.

Darnis.4056:

Mesmer gs subpar compared to staff… what’s your point?..

I don’t know about subpar compared to X, Y, or Z, sorry, I don’t play enough mesmer. My point? I don’t really have one. I just thought 1200 range is very strong for a traditional melee weapon. Heck, shortbow rangers don’t even get 1200 range. Just a thought :P

So my question boils down to “why is that necessary?”. That’s all. I’m not asking for a nerf or a buff to anything, I just saw an apparent contradiction in my mind and wondered if there was a neat reason for a cleaving weapon to be able to hit at 1200 instead of 900 which is where I assumed it always was. Again, I’m not asking for a nerf, rather, just understanding of why that’s the case.

Why can they get 1200 range?

Lol ya poison does that. Poisoning someone right before they heal just feels so fun. Haha

akallou.9704:

that would make more sence to have this buff for melee weapons..

Then it would be exactly lile the warrior trait I stole the idea from. Haha

But to address your comment, let me ask you: Have you ever played longbow/power ranger via either signet or remoresless/valkryie type builds? You want condition clear signet, a trap, and lightning reflexes—maybe signet of wild instead of signet of renewal, if you think you can handle the conditions.

But without run speed, you’re toast. Longbow ranger is dead once the gap is closed, even with the new hunter’s shot. So you begrudgingly take signet of the hunt like you do in most ranger builds.

That was my logic at least, you might disagree and that’s fine. Just wanted to explain where I was coming from.

Meglobob.8620:

JonathanSharp.7094:

So the Ranger will be seeing some changes to the spirit build. We’re being very mindful to carefully shave it so that:

1. We don’t hurt other areas of the game where the build may not be a problem, as it is in PvP, and
2. We’ve already seen counters to this build showing up (there’s a thread talking about the Warrior countering this build, and to what degree) in the meta.

So, we will be “shaving” the build a little (we don’t want to over-correct the issue) and seeing how the meta adapts.

So your NERFING a build that the meta has adapted too and has developed a excellent counter to in the form of longbow warrior…

WHY?!?!

Sounds like because they figure sun spirit is too hard to kill. I don’t know, honestly, I’m a little confused. Arguably wellomancer is easier to play; arguably the devs don’t want the skill floor to be too high because, with ranger pets, they disallow many potential pet control schemes and reduce it basically to two keys. So it’s a bit of an enigma for me as well. I don’t have all the facts though like a dev or pro player. I’m just a regular player who loves gw2 and wants to see it become something big.

By the way, I found the section on “perception of balance” informative and insightful. Thank you for clearing up how anet does work. No, everyone doesn’t get what they want. But if you love gw2, if you’re a fan, you just keep on keeping on.

Heal as one would see more use if it removed conditions on heal I bet.

m walker.7836:

No harm, no foul! I just hope they aren’t going to nerf spirits in PvE/WvW because I want to have my Ranger be useful for something in roaming groups.

It doesn’t look like they feel a split is necessary. But, I could be wrong. We’ll find out later today, right?

Ya pvp, oops

I do worry about traps in an environment where people complain of condition heavy meta and a condition nerf. Perhaps more removal is in order? We shall see in a few months if they decide to address it. Right now, the bridge ahead, is a tapering back of spirits and maybe, if it fits anets overall goals, we’ll see some kind of buff in a different area.

Leuca: You’re pointing out the original reasons spirits weren’t as tanky on launch. They got a 100% health buff and then a 60% health buff if I remember right. The community — even non rangers — begged for tankier spirits. Now people are starting to understand why spirits were where they originally were. And now we have to oscillate back to tone them down. Only benefit I see from this is frost spirit going to 100% proc rate. Next, when conditions get “fixed” what happens to the old mainstay build: traps? That one hasn’t really been touched since launch but it’s coming I’m sure. Lol

Watch the wire? Dude that TV show is old. You guys must be workin hard.

Edit: The wire ran from 2002 to 2008 so it’s officially 5 yets old _ take a break once man!

Taku.6352:

Still sucks that the forage skills have their own CDs, 120 sec on skull fear is not cool.

I think they patched that. Can someone confirm?

theodor.3480:

I’m also a ranger roaming in wvw (solo or small group and posibly the ocasional zerg run) and I’ve encoutered plety of spirit rangers. They suck, badly. I run a 20/30/20/0/0 build with axe/warhorn and longbow and those guys went down fast. Like really fast. Barrage + rapid fire + hunter’s call and auto attack and dead spirit ranger.

For pvp it may need a nerf (don’t know because i don’t pvp much) but for wvw i don’t think it’s that useful the build.

Anyways, end of my small rant, getting tired of hearing that new nerfs will be added to the ranger and no improvements, but we will survive.

Ranger power/ rampage builds are fun, huh?

Indoles.1467:

I agree to an extent. I wouldn’t give position 90%, but it is very important in any engagement. I really wish we could have more pet management, but apparently that would be too difficult for many players so we are all stuck with quite a bit of garbage pets with static stats. We are way off target with the post topic (I’m just watching the gw2pvptv twitch stream while talking on the forum, which I suggest everyone watch). I’d like to see what other people think about something like this happening, but nobody wants to apparently.

Well yeah, but I have to agree with them to a point. The build is incredibly easy for the results you can achieve and I don’t like playing like that. I don’t want to see it die either, but something should be done to make it just as rewarding, yet harder to play (in essence a nerf, but more or less a skill floor drop).

Ya 90% is a bit of an exaggeration haha. I still think it’s spirit health that’s the issue. They body block too well. Just my opinion.

Hey maybe frost spirit won’t get an ICD? Sorry, I read it that way indoles. That’s one reason I was being a bit combative. Again, I apologize. Have a good day fellas, cross your fingers on the patch for cool stuff.

I like you indoles. I got to go, nice talking. “Since this is ranger forum” haha nice, I laughed. :p

If I might add one more thought: interesting we’re discusssing skill floors when

• anet refuses to allow more access to finer pet control / more micro
• 90% of the game is purely positioning—dodge and position defines most of the existing skill floor in all game modes. And the pet fails miserably on that. And what do we get in return? A spirit nerf.

The fact that the discussion went back to skill floors makes me imagine that people are grasping at straws to find a reason to nerf the build. Because, clearly, ranger cannot be efficient at anything, right?

How high is the skill floor on wellomancer power necro? Hmmmmmm lol

I’m not deadlocked, just playing devils advocate :p chillaxe dude. Anet always does what the loudest most credible voices want. I’m neither loud nor credible! _ I just play a lot of ranger. I’m not a pro, I’m not particularly good at using tact in writing, and I’m not a spreadsheet wizard. I just know that spirits need a split and/or major changes to rangers.

And on “guardians in a good place” ya right. They’ve been OP since day one. 60% of players probably main guardian and most won’t try any new content without one. They’re always in the highest demand in every game mode. You’re dreaming if you think they’re just “in a good place”.

Ok ok, you have all the knowledge and know everything. Sheesh, didn’t know you would get you feelings hurt so easy. I think it’s because I mentioned how guardians are OP that makes you upset. All I said was I believe your knowledge of ranger is weak if you didn’t know that spirits are useful beyond condi builds. Didn’t know that made me a bad guy. I take it back, sorry.

I also have 2500 hours on ranger and many thousands of kills. Big deal, I’ll be the first to tell you I suck at gw2 lol

Lighten up, right? My knowledge of every profession but ranger is weak. :/ No need to get all upset over a little comment. :p

Clearly there’s more efficient and better builds in many situations than spirits, I guess I don’t like the magnifying glass on spirits when guardians can do so much and pets are seens kitten useless. :/

Odd you can’t admit that about other professions being more OP than ranger almost everywhere. I’m fairly certain everyone hates the ranger profession (not devs, players) or, maybe they don’t hate it, they just hate seeing it be at the same level as other professions. We had a long discussion about apathy towards ranger profession and a lot of it boils down to people just, basically, hating on the profession.

At the end of the day though I don’t really care. Anet will do what they think is best for gw2 no matter what we think. And I have a ton of priorities IRL. It will be fun watching the meltdown on the forums all over again though. I’m kind of looking foward to it.

All rangers in dungeons should have frost spirit and spotter and maybe stone spirit. Conditions are fine in pve if you have one rampager applying them, but that’s kind of besides the point. Only one spirit does condition damage, did you know that?

Based on the rest of your comment, your knowledge of ranger seems very weak because you think spirits are for condi builds only. You forgot valkryie and zerker builds or anywhere you want team support.

If anything, your post is an example of why guardians need nerfed NOT ranger. I’m so sick of ranger being a second class profession in gw2. A least SAB doesn’t care what you play. Seriously, a spirit nerf is bull.

One year later and where are we? Pretty much this: if you’re even close to guardian in production/efficiency: NERF! No wonder the ranger community is constantly outraged.

You play spvp and I play dungeon/wvw? not sure but I wager that explains the difference in the builds we see. The pve meta is much slower than the pvp meta. It probably lags behind by at least 3 months. I still don’t see many spirit rangers in dungeons. Most in pve think spirits are a joke when it’s been shown that they are not.

• I suspect the reason there is still so many regen beastmaster rangers is because besides rabid, that was the first build that really caught on. Pve gear is expensive so naturally it takes people time to adapt. However, the lack of beserker/spirit rangers in dungeons—particularly FOTM—is surprising to me.

Also, I don’t know anything about necros but I always win with a power wellomancer build. So they need nerfed right? Isn’t that the criteria? Because unless I’m mistaken, that’s the logic that’s leading to a spirit build nerf. :p

Think about it: all they have to do is drop wells on their target GG. Spirits you have to suffer a stupid long cast time, hope they don’t die, and hope your enemy doesn’t know to kill the sun spirit. :/

If what you’re saying is true, Indoles, I expect to see major nerfs to other builds on other professions, don’t you agree? Particularly necro and warrior. Yes, I said warrior nerf. And guardian nerfs. Iduelist nerf too.

*edit sry if that comes off as harsh but it’s just how I feel about it right now. Emotions can be wrong and I definately don’t have all the facts so, ya, I needed this disclaimer here

Sounds like wack a mole but whatever—nerf engineers too please. Thanks—make turrets fire slower but have a 100% chance of being a pain in the kitten. Haha

Seriously though if they do this there ought to be major buffs in other areas—beastmastery for example or pets in general. Or more active condition removal (removal on pet swap? Something. Pet death penalty reduction?)

But, yeah, expect massive community backlash from taking away what was ranger only real team support. It was fun while it lasted I guess, especially dungeons. That was cool—frost spirit. I guess I ought to get in FOTM while I can or else finally finish leveling my guardian. Hehe just kidding, I’ll be bullheaded and still play ranger even after another nerf to a succesful build.

Edit: it’s a shame they’re nerfing a build before the meta even really caught on. I’ve only now started seeing spirit rangers more regularly in the various modes of gameplay. I still see way more apothecary beastmasters than trap or spirit rangers. There’s a 1vX signet ranger video on reddit right now. I have seen many signet ranger videos but few spirit ranger videos.

How about a trait that makes ranger run at 25% speed when weilding a bow (or add that to eagle eye?) or maybe a trait that doubles bleed durations? Now I’m just copying warrior traits. What about some kind of rework to the vastly agreed shouts boringness? Or maybe tooltip fixes (hmm that spider immobilizes not stuns!). Or, dwyana forbid, a pet buff/debuff bar? Lol like that will happen

Remorseless + longbow + valkryie gear causes many huge huge crits due to precise strike re-activating since opening strikes happens after stealth. Repeating 12k or great mauls with massie longbow damage. That’s the standard remorseless build, if you’re intersted in using that trait to it’s potential.