Guild Wars 2

Give stacks of bloodlust to the losing servers as a function of tick. Example: SOR ticks 695, then JQ and BG get full bloodlust. That attempts to fix imbalance between servers. Now, give stacks of magic find and wvw exp boosts (similar to outmanned) for what you get bloodlust for now.

What about 5 central points? need a strong reason to cap besides outmanned buff, right? cap and hold all five points for a certain amount of time (say 7 minutes) flips garrison, hills, and bay. Boom, fixed. Send me a tooth of frostfang or the longbow precursor as payment ANET thx.

But OP wants the big DIIIIIIIIIIIIPS !!!!!

Train v train you mean? What they do with guardians and necros…that’s NOT guild
V guild. Just trying to get the definitions agreed upon for this discussion, but, the fact is, with so much of the profession tied to the pet…you have less power due to a pet that wasn’t designed AT ALL for train v train. Which makes ranger better for point capping, small team combat, etc. we all know this.

That said, arguably, ranger spirits and spotter are some of the best team buffs in the game. The water field is very powerful. And the ranger’s ability to resurrect (when traited for healer’s celerity and trappers defense, runes of mercy, S&R with stability training/pig, spirit elite) is just as good if not better than guardians. But those things aren’t tested and/or require too much skill for people used to spamming.

Note: this is a little off topic but I find Train v train to be VERY casual PvP—just as casual as wvw, really. It’s casual/spammy gameplay a lot of people enjoy. I obviously don’t like it, given that it’s a perversion of gw2 gameplay that barely even gives ranger a chance.

• spirit cool down changes flattened spirit uptime so spirit death really isn’t too bad. It’s
  Not as good as it used to be for train v train and it did get worse but I still think they’re strong. Natures vengeance / vigorous spirits, I mean…that’s actually really strong, but what do I know? I just play ranger.

This post is really cool. Durzlla and I had a similar idea for a “ranger rolodex” of builds. For the living story I made a “flame and frost” build that used rampager and was a lot of fun. It’s on the forums somewhere.

Need more people posting on this. Cool stuff. I might come back later to contribute something to this thread. seeya

I feel like I really only need, at worst, runes of mercy and a little healing power in certain high level fractals. Just take frost spirit traited and spotter, though, please. I think not taking 20 in marks for spotter (aoe 150 precision always on) is awfully selfish.

Why not dragon’s breath bun? I dunno about squash soup man. Need more POWA!

Linguistically Inept.6583:

why sharpened edges? companions might, primal reflexes or agility training look like much better choices

(i dont know why… but those stats look really poor compared to my ranger)

Probably for the “diips”. I think sharpened edges with full zerk is like another 400 dps with zero condition damage or condition duration. It’s a sigil of earth basically, in a trait…I think it’s a base 2s bleed.

I think OP’s conjecture is basically “the sheer amount of conditions and boons that can e applied and reapplied constantly contributes to the often mentioned ‘spamminess’ of spvp?” Whether I agree with the premise, I’m not sure, but it’s an interesting discussion and something I heard alluded to by players much better than me. The idea that there is a functional relationship between tendency to spam and availability of boons/conditions is certainty worth discussing. These are design choices made that many here don’t have a full understanding of (I certainly don’t) so it would be nice to see someone

• more formally define what they mean by ‘spamminess’
• how gw2 creates the conditions for that
• why it’s good/bad for the game

:)

Lol players crack me UP! This is a classic post. Thanks for making me laugh.

I wasn’t dueling, I was capping camps testing a power ranger build. I have many sets of armor and like to test in wvw for fun. I hope that gives you perspective on where I’m coming from. Also, I like how you got in the dig “scrubs” on me. Apparently, you’re a scrub if you test and experiment. Also, you missed the point I was trying to make about the viability of builds in a general sense and the rock-paper-scissors aspects of gw2.

I was wondering what combos we could pull off, this morning I figured we could…

• sick em cast reveals thief, pop entangle, they might not be able to escape easily without access to stealth, now CC them while in binds

Would this work? What can you think of for mesmers or thieves?

Every profession has damage/support/control builds (in theory). Seems like he’s just playing a pressure role. Why take him over a mesmer or thief? I just thought that was an odd question since it’s not pro level play, but, maybe the mesmer is slow and the thief is melee. Battosai has talked about how ranger should be good at a ranged pressure role with high mobility, forcing people off point to face them up close. I hope that helps answer your question but maybe OP can do a better job.

Deli.1302:

The skill lag has gotten a lot worse. The server has to make even more calculations now due to the stupid/pointless/moronic bloodlust buff.

One thing we’ve learned: ANET DOESN’T TEST ANYTHING
oh wait, we already knew that…..

That bloodlust causes lag is conjecture. It could be

• dragonbrand has the population of seafarer’s rest and everyone was playing last night in a stacked T2 matchup

Not saying I know either, I’m just pointing out your speculation.

Just chiming in to say I believe these are good changes despite the vocal minority on the forums.

Ryan.8367:

Fortus.6175:

I can only feel pity for them, not because of the recent changes to the class mechanics, but rather the concept at which they were first created. At first I used to hate them, then I started playing the class to learn it and realized that while OP, they are a victim of their own strenghts.

A class created to be evasive, hard to pin down, but that offered some good counter mechanics and trade offs that could be fun for the opponent to beat. They are actually suffering from a subset of skills (which sadly attracts very unskilled set of players for the stupidly low skill ceiling) and make them take the easy and unfun way out by abusing two mechanics that are pulling the thief down; Stealth and Backstab.

I have seen well played thieves that dont rely on neither of these mechanics to be effective or annoying. They use teleports, poison, calculated skills, skillful use of teleports, tactical stealths. This thieves are fun to play agaisnt, they have skills which are difficult and slightly frustrating to fight agaisnt, but beating them feel rewarding because you have to outplay them, they have to make decisions, you are constantly playing whack-a-mole but you can kind of expect where it will pop, with the twist that the mole can fight back.

The problem arises when the thief has D/D and can burst you for 8-10k hp without absolutely no counter. Aegis wont block the damage nor reveal them, blocks wont work either. Basically backstab is a guaranteed 10k burst that if you are an ele (12k hp) or a guardian (12k hp too) you will most likely die to it if you arent at full health, or the HS following the BS will kill you for sure. There is absolutely no counterplay to that, not even dodges can save you because you cant dodge what you cant see.

Thats what needs to go away, no class should have a 10k nuke without any counterplay. The other issue is permastealth and how “newbs” rely too much on it to survive. Every now and then you see these “new players with low skill” threads popping up everytime their “sacred” completely balanced and full of fun counterplay mechanics is touched. We had them first when revealed was applied. Was the class uesless? no. Then when the duratio was increase? were thieves useless? No, once again. Now the rangers pet apply them. Will it be useless? I bet no, because unlike most of the population, not everyone plays ranger, in fact I dont play ranger, and if I were to play ranger I wouldnt go for beastmaster.

Point is, for most people the problem of lowly skilled thieves who rely too much on the annoying stealth mechanic and OP uncounterable backstab the QQ will never stop.

Once we rework backstab to have a maximun %hp cap and have a long internal CD, and stealth to be a skill of tactical use rather than just spam it for everything, then we will have a more balanced class. The class should be about timed dodges, timed teleports, timed blinds, timed skills, timed poisons, not spam 1222161228112, heck most people dont even get past the first set of 2s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laxyoaHOP1c

Wait…I think he’s agreeing with you lol.

On another note I fought a mesmer last night I wish I could have popped a reveal on. You guys worry too much though to be honest. Sick em will end up being a skill play so noobs won’t get to spam it. It could be devastating if timed perfectly or useless if misused. It looks like anet wants to make the relation between the pet and the player more active than call-send-utility buttons.

Also, only one subset ranger builds really has a chance in a typical fight versus a thief. That’s regen/bunker/condi’s as well all know. I was running power the other day and a cloaked thief got his dream: to sneak up on a 2300 armor ranger and just blow him up in 2 hits will full bloodlust, applied fortitude, and guard leech.

I do not think ranger spirit build is even THAT low skill floor. Really, it’s not close. Condi bunkers are insane and so is thief burst to be able to keep up. It’s rock paper scissors. You’re all not cool with that, are you?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Report all the bearbows and GS mesmers.

You forgot cleric guardians and condition warriors.

Stuff in real life

I had fun doing some trib mode though, maybe I’ll do some more before the event closes?

I share your concern about power creep in wvw. It seems weaker players will have to use more seige and better strategy? Let’s see how this pans out. I’m not looking forward to more 1 or 2 shots from thieves (bronze major), CC spam from warriors, or any of the other OP builds abused by so-called ‘veterans’.

Lol that is some funny stuff ryan. Almost choked on my cereal watching that.

Speaking of brazil and dps on bosses, I’ve done 20,000+ with fiery greatsword into a corner (DnT doesn’t play FGS as they consider it an exploit in speed clears). I love it haha. The other big one was landing multiple reflects on lupicus for 13,000 × 5. That’s harder to do now though, isn’kitten

Only take agility training for cats and birds for moving targets. It doesn’t really affect dog or spider dps, although they do run faster. Companion’s might is great for buffing pet with crits—try this with fortifying bond and a sigil of strength. Master’s bond is fine but you have to learn how to pull your pet out of danger to keep the stacks. I hope that helps.

It depends what you need to fill gaps in your group. A skilled ranger will pick up on what the team is doing rather quickly and then switch pets to compensate. Need fury? Red moa. Like you said, drakes for blasting.

If you have a well coordinated group for absolute burst, probably Jaguar with pet prowess and companions might. Probably sick em shout. Guang and brazil might have more to say on this, but would master’s bond (assuming full 25 stacks of +8 all stats for pet) be comparable to Bountiful hunter?

Edit :@ broadicea
Devourers are surprisingly forgiving and spiders are fantastic dps. Spider dps is comparable to jag’s now, at least for targets that move it’s better. Don’t forget: anet patched pets several months ago to flatten their damage. Also, buffs are incoming to bears and moas according to recent blog posts.

Incurafy.6329:

If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.

Do you ever run shadow’s refuge? Or is that not any good in high level tpvp?

I used to roam with a venomshare thief in wvw. It was fun, cool playstyle.

Would you suggest the untraited dagger evade? I’m afraid serpent’s strike would pull me out of the circle.

We always let the person with the SAB explosive finisher stomp people already so it won’t be much of a change for us. Sometimes we just call it. Someone types WOMP and we let them get their ogre finisher in. Someone types YAK we let them do their dolyak rank flag. Etc

I heard anet will release new elites someday, what a fun topic. Are you guys saying a transformation where you join up with your pet into one? That sounds so Radagast. I love it.

Yep, I don’t doubt that one bit. @ _ @ (buzz lightyear meme)

SoR: Legendaries…legendaries and bronze majors, everywhere.

Applied fortitude + guard leech + supply mastery

Incredibly scary!

Lol all I’m saying is the reason I brought it up is because someone mentioned SR. ahaha miscommunication and stuff makes me laugh. Heh

Ya, I dunno, three 1500+ bounces isn’t awful for a ranger attack. I like it for weakness/chill on a boss to be honest. I slum it man. I’m a PUGster. Lfg!

Jayne.9251:

Chopps.5047:

Jayne.9251:

Why not just have a npc that sells food/recipe you can craft and sell that removes bloodlust for the typical length of food duration? Crafters make money (it will sell), opposing teams can click on each other and see the food “unbuff” …. Bloodlust gets to remain as planned by anet. Players who wish to fight without the buff (I’m thinking GvG here) can do so.

It doesn’t matter much for me now that I’m on deso, but I’d imagine some people don’t like the queues being made even worse due to some people choosing to not even play wvw but instead, train v train. The worst I can remember was when [censored to avoid kitten] transfered to JQ in order to train v train. It was really lame trying to do our thing when they were being so selfish. Intereting idea though, I’m sure a lot of people would like that (train v train’ers)

But JQ has said very publically and by many members that they do not GvG, and the server itself discourages it as a whole? Maybe you’re thinking of a different mode of play? Or maybe I’m not understanding what you mean by train v train?

A sanctum of rall “gvg” guild vacationed to JQ for a week so they could gvg with guilds on a server they hadn’t got to face. This was back, probably, in april or june of this year. I’m sure it doesn’t happen a lot but for us, that week wasn’t very fun. We still won, they token zerged for us, probably because they wanted wxp but also because they may have felt bad for eating queues an doing nothing.

Lord Kuru.3685:

It’s fine, but only because literally zero people care about the total score. It will be even less important when the leagues start because most matches will be over way before they begin.

The whole buff should just be +100% MF when in WvW, and that’s it.

By the way, anyone feel that this new area in the ruins is suspiciously like sPvP? Is this just another ploy to push us towards sPvP?

My interpretation is I doubt anet would make and update a major selling point of their critcally acclaimed game just to push you into another game mode. Gw2 was designed around conquest so of course the solution to wvw involves capping points. Introduce that—make wvw more like spvp in a way—then less skill splitting is needed. It’s clever and by design.

As far as tpvp goes, it’s simple to get more people into it: make that mode free to play. You watch, I bet that’s what happens. Suddenly a lot of people are in heart of the mists. Problem solved, esports potential increases.

But what do I know? I’m just a ranger.

But with sick em you can prevent that shadow refuge retreat if you time it right. I think that’s the power of the utility. Not saying you need it or that it’s how you play this build of thief. I’m just trying to point of the relevance of sick em to theif SRing away. That’s all

Jayne.9251:

Why not just have a npc that sells food/recipe you can craft and sell that removes bloodlust for the typical length of food duration? Crafters make money (it will sell), opposing teams can click on each other and see the food “unbuff” …. Bloodlust gets to remain as planned by anet. Players who wish to fight without the buff (I’m thinking GvG here) can do so.

It doesn’t matter much for me now that I’m on deso, but I’d imagine some people don’t like the queues being made even worse due to some people choosing to not even play wvw but instead, train v train. The worst I can remember was when [censored to avoid kitten] transfered to JQ in order to train v train. It was really lame trying to do our thing when they were being so selfish. Intereting idea though, I’m sure a lot of people would like that (train v train’ers)

Maybe not, but shadow refuge is on a lot of thieves’ bars.

“They utilise field to the max, the composition of the train depends on the enemie their composition, the movement and timing of the skills is enourmously important. Both teams know what you got and will try to avoid it. Making it that much harder to land skills.”

That’s true of tpvp too. To more of an extent as well. Why? Well, if the point is capped/decapped and timing / position is off, it could cost you the game. Just one mistake. Whereas in your proposed game mode, people can be somewhat out of position without penalty. In fact, there is no position. Just a court to shark around in your case.

Pretty much everything else you said applies to tpvp or any aspect of the game. Of course, the deeper your knowledge of all professions and skills, the better you do. That’s true everywhere.

“Calling regroups and might buffs for more damage can make or break the game. Again 1 missed elite can turn a win into a lose.”

Now here is where we diverge. I contend that is true in tpvp but demonstrably not true in train v train.

See, another aspect where train v train falls short is individuality. Most players are copying the commanders moves so their role is little more than that of a ranger pet following shouts. In tpvp, on the other hand, the decision of the individual does make or break the game.

Overkillengine.6084:

I think it’s funny that people are allowed to pay gold to misuse an organizational tool that does affect everyone else in the zone (even if they try to ignore it) but the affected people are not allowed to pay gold to have the tool nullified.

Earlier in the game it was only affordable by guilds, maybe the cost needs to go up to make guilds more wisely choose who to give tags to? But that’s only a bandaid solution and not always right, especially for smaller guilds. It’s a tough nut to crack, you should change your outlook. Also, I think there’s a lot of blue dorito jealousy out there causing some of these complaints. Personally I could care less how many tags are on a map. It changes nothing and affects me in no way. Except wvw, but even there, I mean, you got to start somewhere.

TL:DR
Chillaxe

Ya ranger is widely considered weak in wvw. I just think that’s a result of roaming / defense being largely ineffective versus a zerg combined with the perception that ranger contributes little to open field combat. I still play it though. Wvw bloodlust and point capturing / defense might make rangers more useful. We’ll see soon

Only if the thief spams shortbow or heartseeker will that do anything. But it’s a good tool for sure. Does it stop the thief from choosing to reset the fight though? I think that’s the question at hand.

How is it more complex again? I’m stuck at the premise of your argument. It seems to me that train v train is a simplified version of open field combat which is itself just a subset of wvw. Am I mistaken? You’re saying train v trainers are good at open field combat? I’ll give you that for sure.

As far as I understand, thieves have the ability to reset a fight or easily run away. Most players have asked for something to prevent stealth. I know I’ve been seemingly trolled by thieves a lot so I think it’s fair. It’s only a 4s reveal. Also, what makes you guys think other professions will get to cast reveal? Ranger’s have pets that hunt scent, right? So it won’t be a widespread thing and won’t be on every ranger’s bar.

Lots of train v train players posting, I see. I just want to say, well, I don’t know how to put this without getting someone’s knickers in a bunch, but, a lot of us are glad to see this change in wvw. I just think it’s ironic that people who would post with esports tag on subreddit—who consider themselves hardcore pvp’ers—would push for such a casual gametype as their invention they call “GvG” (aka train v train).

Dahir.4158:

Magnetron.5823:

Hey thief roamer on deso border at bay from SFR.

I am a GS+Longbow warrior, and you are only hiding and hiding, I even tried to kill you but its impossible due to your hiding skills.

That’s why I lured you into the water, and there you was running from me!

So why do you go up land, be in your safe hiding zone and press /laugh?

I even came out to land to try to kill you again! But you were traited for 1v1s and I was GS+LB, eventually I just leave.

But too be honest mr SFR hide in shadow thief? If you are so good, why didn’t you kill me on land? Twice?

So stop laughing and get more skills instead of hide every 2 seconds and shoot from distance. SFR chicken.

Because Magnetron, he sensed your immense power emanating from you. Don’t blame him, blame yourself for being too powerful.

Muahaha I cannot WAIT for the sick em buff. Better hide your thieves!

I guarantee no one in this thread is remotely good at pet micro “but ranger so easy”.

Wukunlin.8461:

what is the current cookie cutter ranger dps build atm?

Did anyone answer? Guang and Brazil came up with 20/25/0/25/0 with spotter and frost spirit, basically. Zerk for sustained dps. Sigil of strength and companions might (already have boon sharing with fortifying bond) so thats a lot of might on pet. Sword/axe and axe/warhorn. Or just warhorn offhand if you’re into speed clears. Did I miss anything? Strength of spirit / vigorous spirits are good choices.

Rym.1469:

Ignore him. They’re squishy, but they’ll get stealth from CnD on your pet or any of spirits anytime good thief wants and keep resetting the fight.

This comment might give us insight into why Sick Em reveal is possibly interesting as opposed to bland. I mean, I’m learning right along with you guys…that was probably obvious to a lot of you.

You could use it to down players too—reveal mesmers. Etc. btw, why not think for yourself instead of having to wait for a commander to tell you to do something.

“Highest damage” is sort of nebulous. I assume you want sustained high damage over time. Use berserker armor with 20 (spotter)/25 (companions might)/0/25 (strength of spirit, vigorous spirits)/0 and slot sigil of strenth and a sigil of bloodlust. Use sword/axe and axe/warhorn. All berserker basically. The trick here is sigil of strength + fortifying bond + companions might is a lot of might on pet.

Ok so pets. Middle, general utility pets are drakes and devourers. If you want high damage take cats or birds. If you want buffs try moas. Weakness from black bear. Etc. experiment and find what you need. Maybe your group lacks fury. Use a red moa then. Think like that.

Utilies: healing spring, frost spirit, sick em/signet of renewal, etc. its sort of up to you. Maybe there’s a fast moving enemy, try frost trap. Be flexible.

torgalspu.9074:

I keep having this problem with my Elementalist. Currently in berserker gear etc usually run d/d because i like it but out decent damage and great support, but literally got kicked out of groups for not being a Warrior. I could happily record this happening at least 5x a day when i get on in the next few days lol. they must do a truck load damage more ?

I like to open dungeons to prevent PUG leader rage quit if the slightest thing goes wrong. If there is two people in the party of any class but mesmer/guardian and the warrior is the third, I can’t even tell you how many times a warrior will drop party. I don’t know what it is with the mentality of people that (generally speaking) play warrior. They’re all scared to play without a guardian in their group. “Need one more heavy” is the common refrain. Heavy? That’s not really “need” that’s “want for OP blocks and stability spam”. But, it is true that guardian trivializes content so what can you do?

I play at a decent level, not great, but I’m not a scrub. I know that when I “beat” a thief, it usually means I made the thief SR and scurry away. Some builds, though, when played well, just eat players alive and the thief and always disengage and burst run away (well, that’s easier with shortbow I suppose). So I think this is a good mechanic to force Revealed debuff during the fight to prevent exfiltration.