Guild Wars 2

There is nothing difficult or challenging about time consuming content. All it requires is your patience with repeating the same content over and over until you get something. I know being patient is difficult for some of you, and that somehow makes it challenging content, but for the vast majority of us, here is a message :::

Get a life

Zombies have been secretly waiting for the right moment to rise from their graves and eat all of mankind and the apocalypse is near. That is the only way to explain why there’s a dev paying attention to us and still posting in these forums! (/sarcasm)

Castaliea.3156:

Without the stealth (but keeping Super Speed) what do trappers need to survive? I have limited experience with this playstyle and could use some help.

here’s my bad advice::

Whenever I run Trapper, I normally don’t bother with survival at all, and try to get my condition damage and critical chance as high as possible.

Also, about the other conversation….remember kids, destroyer trolls are immune to burns.

Eurantien.4632:

Ele isn’t so strong since the last update. Unfortunately this “meta” at the moment where rangers are strong (imo) will only last for 2 more weeks.

2 more whole weeks on top of the month? This is like, the longest time Rangers have ever been important!

Rutee.1058:

That cute little truth bomb you fumbled….

…what?

This is honestly adorable…..

Wait!….Are…

You are almost adorable.

Are you hitting on me? ((And there’s my random post for the year folks!))

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

- I said videos, OR DATA, but I guess that because I didn’t say Parser, It was ignored so you can keep ranting about something Anet has stated thousands of times they do not want in this game?

Blank stare
I’ve found combat log parsers for GW2. Nearly every MMO in the history of ever has said ’don’t use them’. How much they choose to enforce it varies wildly, but this single statement is nigh-eternal.

This is kind of funny. I never said they don’t exist, so this statement is pointless…

Rutee.1058:

I know what you are saying by Parser, you are talking about the Advanced Combat Tracker (why you are abbreviating it to parser which means something entirely different (similar in programming and even language terms, but still different)

…do you know what words mean? The abbreviation for that particular parser is ACT (Which is itself also an acronym). ‘Parser’ is using the generic term instead of the specific, not an ‘abbreviation’, because there are more parsers than there are MMOs and I wouldn’t dream of asking for a specific one I’m reasonably confident doesn’t have a plug in for the game I’m on. Comparing it to using SCH for Scholar is pretty hilarious – it’s the inverse! SCH is ensuring I use the specific term, not the generic, because the generic could easily be read as something entirely different. Here, I use the generic, because there is little room for confusion amongst people with any knowledge of MMOs at all (Unlike with Scholar, which even has perfectly valid GW2 intepretations, putting aside the rest of MMOs in perpetuity).

Parser – Noun – A Program for parsing
Parsing – Verb – 1) Analyze a sentence and examine their syntactic roles. 2) Examine or analyze minutely.

Parser isn’t the generic term my dear. It is the term! It is the word used to describe parsing. It has nothing to do with American College Testing (ACT), nor does it have to do with the Automated Confirmation of Transactions (ACT). What you should have said was “the program name for that particular parser…..” Its not an abbreviation for anything, but it is a program. What I don’t get is why you keep abbreviating the Advanced Combat Tracker (which doesn’t only analyze, but also tracks, translates, and organizes that data) to Parser instead of just saying it. You’re shortening everything it can do into one thing that doesn’t really describe it that well.

Yeah, yeah, pretty much every company has said ‘no’ since the creation of the MMO. Most of them don’t work too hard at it, but only (to my knowledge) WoW has opened its arms and welcomed community tools – a good decision I was hoping to see replicated elsewhere, because WoW did it with the caveat that the game can’t be automated, and they’d stomp automating tools and their users flat (nfc how well they succeeded there).

This notwithstanding that from what I can tell, ANet’s policy is against reading game data – combat log parsers don’t do that – they read the combat log already available to players, and document it with accuracy humans don’t really have.

1) To see this data from another player, you require two of the things on my list from the last post. Video and Screenshots of your chat log.

2) This alleged parser can document it with speed that humans don’t have, not accuracy. How hard is it to go into paint and calculate all the numbers for yourself from a direct screenshot (or just look at the damage stuff while still in Guild Wars 2), using the time stamps as reference? Your damage per second and healing per second calculations will be exactly as accurate as a program taking screenshots of your chat log.

3) “Parser” for lazy people maybe.

Rutee.1058:

…the only one ‘laughing’, was you. The other responses pointedly asked for maths to support his statement, which means they took it seriously (and prompted my question as to why maths were acceptable). Also, calling a discussion ‘over’ when you’re actively participating in it is pretty laughable!

Your ignorance is almost adorable, cute even. No honey, they weren’t serious about it at all. I don’t think anyone here is being serious right now. Those guys you are talking about are half-serious…maybe (and so am I, I guess…), because there is the slightest chance that someone, somewhere, went against all odds and found a way to make a Condition Longbow ( a weapon with no inherent damaging conditions) more powerful than just plain damage. However, our experience combined with theoretical math, combined with evidence in several places (dirty example : Youtube ‘Ranger Veteran Giant Kill’. Fastest Ranger condi kill is 15 seconds. Fastest Physical kill is around 10 seconds. Fastest hybrid kill is slower than both and probably wont register on the search results if anyone even made a video of that….) It just makes us want to laugh and die a little on the inside whenever someone makes a post on this issue claiming that things are different.

So yeah, conversation was still over. It was over long before you or I posted about it. So, lets point at each other and laugh. At least we’ll feel better, right?

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

People on here have more than enough experience with the Ranger to know that whatever video or data is shown as proof (…proof that longbow condi, axe/dagger, or axe/torch is Ranger’s highest dps weapon…) will be under such a specific set of perfect circumstances, that it might as well be theory crafted math. In which case, it will be exactly what the Rangers say (the Rangers who actually played the profession for the last three years and aren’t suddenly jumping on in the last year), and that is that its not possible under normal circumstances.

…That’s why you don’t use videos, which ultimately are of specific moments. It really sounds like there just aren’t parsers for this game, but parsers can’t lie like that (They can be used to lie in different ways, ofc). They can be written to include crit rates (Which should be normalized across an entire dungeon run or raid, even if you pulled a lucky break on a boss – also unlikely, but at least possible). Parses capture the exact (Or as close to it as can possibly be done) amount of damage dealt by each member, and from that derive your dps. Further, you differentiate between dummy parses, and parses of actual encounters. Dummy parses can be useful to see if you’ve worked out basic mastery of your rotation, but parses of actual encounters are, ultimately, what matters most.

Also, ‘experience can tell you’ precisely nothing. That’s basically relying on your preconceived notions to form your opinion – that’s EXACTLY why you use hard data if you can. The whole POINT of getting actual data from real encounters is to avoid that nonsense – after all, plenty of ‘experienced players’ will tell you that you can’t get good dps from a ranger to start with. People in this forum allege this is inaccurate – hard data would do a lot more for your case (if it were available, which it appears not to be) than pure math or ‘experience’ (Which is subjective to start with – plenty of old timer rangers in this very thread have disagreed on numerous points, much less elsewhere in the forum)

I swear to christ, for people who allegedly care about science, nerds are extraordinarily bad at applying its principles in day to day life. Also, the last thing YOU want to try is to pull this ‘experience’ card. I don’t exactly have cause to value your opinion. My experience with you tells me to disregard your opinion – if you had data, I would have a much harder time gainsaying you. But you don’t (granted, because it doesn’t appear to exist). I mean, I don’t even know you’ve been here – the hell makes you think I ought to trust you? I could just as easily as you say I’ve been paying attention the whole time.

- I said videos, OR DATA, but I guess that because I didn’t say Parser, It was ignored so you can keep ranting about something Anet has stated thousands of times they do not want in this game?

I know what you are saying by Parser, you are talking about the Advanced Combat Tracker (why you are abbreviating it to parser which means something entirely different (similar in programming and even language terms, but still different) instead of just outright saying Combat Tracker, I have no idea, especially since its not common to these forums. It might be related to the subchorionic hematoma (SCH) you main in that other game or something. I don’t know.)

For those few of you who don’t know, this program is also called MMORPG Log Parser and has been around since before World of Warcraft, and it tracks pretty much anything you could ever want from damage and pretty much everything else combat related. It was originally used for Everquest 2, but there are hundreds of plug-ins that allow its use with many other games.

Anet has said no to these types of things thousands of times, and actively works to disable them whenever a new one pops up. so, here are your options for data, from most useful to least useful…

1) Videos
2) Screenshots of chat logs
3) Math for theoretically perfect scenarios
4) People who actually play the game

You’re not going to get data any other way. If you don’t trust what is said on these forums, go test it for yourself, go experience it for yourself, and even though you don’t like playing that card, come back and join us in laughing at that guy’s statement. Either way. This discussion was over before you even started posting.

Rutee.1058:

Tragic Positive.9356:

No it’s just that you mentioned a weapon for highest DPS … a dagger.
If you had any idea what an error that is, you’d see why Heim asked you to demonstrate.

The Longbow might just as well be what you are trying to make it sound, but under veeeeery specific conditions. Or better said, it’s a roulette. So no, your calculations are sheer speculation. No facts whatsoever.

But since I’m long aware you can’t prove it with math, I asked when do we hop in for the demonstration. If you surprise me, I’m nothing but all in for better DPS than the one hundreds of people kept improving for several months.

You are, in a very real sense, confusing me for someone else. I’ve very carefully (Probably not always successfully) tried to avoid making pronouncements on dps – where I come from, if you haven’t seen or produced parses, you try to shut up about that. How you misread “Rutee” for “lxghostxl” I don’t know, but let’s chalk it up to tiredness (Also, I’m on EU servers – I doubt I could ‘demonstrate’ anything even if I were of a mind to)

What I said, is that it’s weird to use math instead of data. Because it is. Using math to ‘demonstrate’ the dps of a build is the definition of theorycrafting – the whole point of why that term was created, is that the actual play of the game can render the math pointless. This should be immediately obvious to GW2 players – against humans, you have iFrames that can be used against your cornerstone attacks (As well as condi-cleanse, blocks, reflects, etc), and against both players and AI, you still have defensive concerns – using D4 as an evade rather than for deepz, for instance. Math is theorycrafting – what you actually want, to establish dps, is data – for instance, parses that delineate how much damage you ACTUALLY DO per second, based on real play data. Hence my question – if there are no parsers, then theory is indeed all you have to work with, which sort of sucks, but hey.

People on here have more than enough experience with the Ranger to know that whatever video or data is shown as proof (…proof that longbow condi, axe/dagger, or axe/torch is Ranger’s highest dps weapon…) will be under such a specific set of perfect circumstances, that it might as well be theory crafted math. In which case, it will be exactly what the Rangers say (the Rangers who actually played the profession for the last three years and aren’t suddenly jumping on in the last year), and that is that its not possible under normal circumstances.

Gav.1425:

I can read. I’m saying it’s not balanced.

….

Treetoptrickster.4205:

seeing as how other professions seem to have a 4 second recharge half-way-across-the-world leap, I think it’s ok.

You can’t just look at traits Gav, you have to look at the whole package.

What I keep getting out of this thread is that everyone keeps saying that Optimal and Meta doesn’t matter, and its okay for the Ranger to be viable but still less than par at everything compared to other professions, because as long as you sing the happy song and play with friends, everything will be okay in the end!

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

Listen son, you could just say healer since that’s what we’re talking about, but its pretty obvious your either too lazy to type 4 letters or just trying to complicate things by using an acronym from (let me guess here) FFXIV that not many of really care about.

Yeah… that’s kinda the idea, skippy. It isn’t immediately obvious I’m referring to a healer when I say ‘I main a Scholar’. It’d be perfectly valid to assume I was trying to be coy about maining Mesmer/Ele/Necro. Wrong, but valid.

So I’ll ask again, What is wrong with people like you who can’t be bothered to type out a full word because the acronym isn’t common on these forums?

That cute little truth bomb you fumbled with about how ‘Scholars are often not healers’ is exactly why I used an abbreviation – It would be more comprehensible, because there is no room for misintepreting it as a generic concept – it’s not like you care super much about understanding a game you don’t play and presumably had little interest in.

So it really is hard for you to type “I’m a healer main in another game”, like to the point that you are so physically unable to you spent half the thread trying to defend not just saying that to start.. Got it, As long as you admit that, everything is right in the world again.

Bri.8354:

As someone who has almost exclusively played ranger since launch, runs a lot of dungeons, enjoys difficult content, and is very focused on efficient play, here are my predictions:

• Druid will not see effective use in any of the current PvE content, nor any of the new open world content.

• They might have a place in raids and specific fractal levels if instabilities favor them.
Efficient Druid builds will likely focus on offensive stats and traits, either physical or condition depending on what is needed, and switch into celestial form when burst healing is needed. The staff is unlikely to be used.

• Players unconcerned about efficiency will likely to be drawn to a healing druid and run a build significantly weaker than the notorious “bearbow”. It will likely consist of a staff/longbow, clerics gear, and a wyvern because they are cool (but incredibly weak). They will view their healing as useful, will try to let their pet tank while healing it, but in reality will just be dragging everyone down in a group setting.

Well, since you’re talking about efficiency and speed, yeah, a Druid with Cleric stats will be dragging everyone down with him.

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

I could gather that from the context. I just take issue with people who can’t spend the extra .5 second it would have taken to type out exactly 4 more letters so people would understand an acronym they don’t normally see.

You also wouldn’t have liked it when I said this about Scholars:

Just as much about damage as they are healing in most games. One subclass from one game doesn’t mean they are all healing.

Hah. This is honestly adorable – you think you’re giving me an unpleasant truth to say “sometimes, classes styled after academics are dps”. No, really? I wonder how I might distinguish the rather more generic term ‘scholar’ to specify this particular iteration was a healer… perhaps I’ll use their abbreviation from the game where they’re healers…

Listen son, you could just say healer since that’s what we’re talking about, but its pretty obvious your either too lazy to type 4 letters or just trying to complicate things by using an acronym from (let me guess here) FFXIV that not many of really care about. So I’ll ask again, What is wrong with people like you who can’t be bothered to type out a full word because the acronym isn’t common on these forums?

Rutee.1058:

Tragic Positive.9356:

That’s sad… Because Rangers have been meta ever since pre-HoT update.
I’ve explained it countless of times so I don’t feel like going through with it again.

If you feel like reading in through (instead of using your own head), feel free to do so. But I’d say chances for that are too slim. You skeptical attitude will prevent you from doing it because why on earth would someone else be right when you weren’t able to prove anything at all.

Er, aren’t you confusing ‘meta’ with ‘strong’? Maybe the NA servers are different, maybe I’m not looking often enough, but the meta seems unchanged from Guards, Eles, and Wars. I’ve not seen people ask for Rangers. I believe you when you say they’re good (I reserve such judgements for parses and similar, personally), but that doesn’t make them the meta, because the meta is determined by the community.

So….Rangers have been meta for about 9 days then? I wouldn’t call that meta, or even good.

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

He’s not saying its going to be unique to healers, he’s saying all the current problems with the game, what you just described, is going to get worse with healers in content they are required for.

If it happens, it’ll be because the community was already genuinely horrible. I get far less abuse as a healer in a game where they’re more required, and healers have far less sacrosanctity than they did a decade ago.

I mean, I’ve seen newbie Guards treated like complete crap for not slotting a particular wall skill in advance, and blamed for wipes because of it. You think that’s qualitatively different from what’s in the OP? I’m not convinced it’ll be worse for this game’s healers, because it’s already pretty bad.

Also SCH? What the kitten is an SCH? What is wrong with people who can’t be bothered to type out acronyms that aren’t common to these forums?

I expected you to know what that was about as much as I expected you to know an Empath Defender – not at all. I also figured, from context, you could gather that they were a healer class in an MMO. It’s not like ‘Scholar’ connotes ‘healer’ outside of its own game.

I could gather that from the context. I just take issue with people who can’t spend the extra .5 second it would have taken to type out exactly 4 more letters so people would understand an acronym they don’t normally see. You also wouldn’t have liked it when I said this about Scholars:

Just as much about damage as they are healing in most games. One subclass from one game doesn’t mean they are all healing.

Chrispy.5641:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Chrispy.5641:

Except that you are supposed to be healing to build up your astral force. Why should dealing damage give you anything at all?

Because there is no point in having a class that needs to heal things solely in order to unlock a resource gated transform that then allows you to heal things more.

It just pigeon-holes the Druid into Staff or TU for reliable AF generation. If damage was a major way of generating it, you wouldn’t need either and could play Ranger in a more traditional way while still being able to use CAF to support your team mates or sustain yourself.

I’d love to use dual melee Druid with shouts, or Druid Trapper, or SB/GS CC Druid, but its pretty much impossible without TU. The builds have merit and would work well if they actually generated AF, but having to deal damage 400 times to enter the form is pretty rubbish.

As is, it takes over 3.5 minutes of AA from a SB to generate enough AF to enter CAF, every single time, compared to 5s with TU or Staff. At 2% per damage, it would be reduced to 27 seconds, which is still a long time.

It takes 1.5 uses of TU to fully charge astral force fully, so way more than 5s. Stop being dramatic.

Also, wow, Shortbow reduces to 27 seconds. Want to know how to do it faster?
Have piercing arrows on Shortbow and that total becomes 9 seconds. If you use Shortbow #2 on a group of enemies, then that total becomes about 5 seconds. Only 5 whole seconds between virtual perma dazes and very strong healing? I’m pretty sure that Longbow can do it faster, even faster when you consider the range of quickness options we have.

I don’t like calling things on Ranger overpowered because there’s too many fake “Rangers” doing that already, but….that’s too powerful since it gives you access to a daze about every 5 seconds. You don’t even have to care about the healing. Pop into Celestial Avatar Form, throw down a daze (with the high healing too), then pop out to keep doing damage for a total of five seconds, pop back in, etc. If you’re not healing any only concentrated on damage and have a damage build, It makes you too powerful. So….how about no.

And actually, after testing it some more, the fastest I could get astral force while attacking is about 30 seconds. you can use Staff 1 to get into Celestial avatar form in less than 5 seconds. While using Troll Unguent, I was able to get into and out of Celestial avatar form 3 times in about 9 seconds.

Anet isn’t going to let a daze every 5 seconds fly (while still having a full damage spec, Astral Force gain by attacking might be raised to a maximum of 1%), and they aren’t going to let a full condition clear every 3 seconds fly. It will be nerfed.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Chrispy.5641:

Except that you are supposed to be healing to build up your astral force. Why should dealing damage give you anything at all?

Because there is no point in having a class that needs to heal things solely in order to unlock a resource gated transform that then allows you to heal things more.

It just pigeon-holes the Druid into Staff or TU for reliable AF generation. If damage was a major way of generating it, you wouldn’t need either and could play Ranger in a more traditional way while still being able to use CAF to support your team mates or sustain yourself.

I’d love to use dual melee Druid with shouts, or Druid Trapper, or SB/GS CC Druid, but its pretty much impossible without TU. The builds have merit and would work well if they actually generated AF, but having to deal damage 400 times to enter the form is pretty rubbish.

As is, it takes over 3.5 minutes of AA from a SB to generate enough AF to enter CAF, every single time, compared to 5s with TU or Staff. At 2% per damage, it would be reduced to 27 seconds, which is still a long time.

It takes 1.5 uses of TU to fully charge astral force fully, so way more than 5s. Stop being dramatic.

Also, wow, Shortbow reduces to 27 seconds. Want to know how to do it faster?
Have piercing arrows on Shortbow and that total becomes 9 seconds. If you use Shortbow #2 on a group of enemies, then that total becomes about 5 seconds. Only 5 whole seconds between virtual perma dazes and very strong healing? I’m pretty sure that Longbow can do it faster, even faster when you consider the range of quickness options we have.

I don’t like calling things on Ranger overpowered because there’s too many fake “Rangers” doing that already, but….that’s too powerful since it gives you access to a daze about every 5 seconds. You don’t even have to care about the healing. Pop into Celestial Avatar Form, throw down a daze (with the high healing too), then pop out to keep doing damage for a total of five seconds, pop back in, etc. If you’re not healing any only concentrated on damage and have a damage build, It makes you too powerful. So….how about no.

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

As someone who played one of those games that required a healer in absolutely freaking everything…..

I’m a SCH main, and ran a empath Defender back in the day. He’s really, truly, not. Or at least, he’s wrong if he thinks it’s unique to druids. I mean, have you dungeoned in this game? People are already titanic jerks to each other about doing everything ‘perfectly’. There are plenty of groups you can’t join without X AP and full zerk gear, with kittening gearchecks (Which given that it requires manual linking, seems like it’d take longer than just the slower run).

I don’t genuinely expect Druids to be treated better in content where you could reasonably ask for them, no, but it’s a symptom of how the game’s community usually treats people, not some weird thing only Druids (Or only healers, if you prefer) will experience.

He’s not saying its going to be unique to healers, he’s saying all the current problems with the game, what you just described, is going to get worse with healers in content they are required for.

Also SCH? What the kitten is an SCH? What is wrong with people who can’t be bothered to type out acronyms that aren’t common to these forums?

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

This is a stupid thread.

Who cares about any of that? Go find yourself a good guild and none of that is relevant.

Sorry you think that.

I am in a number of good guilds. I know FROM experience of OTHER games that REQUIRE healers for certain objectives that what I have posted will happen in this game. I was in good guilds in those games too. I saw FIRSTHAND what was said to me and to others if they failed in their healing. Which is why I and others switched to DPS classes and then those guilds wondered why they couldn’t find healing classes.

Will you experience this? Maybe not but you have a high chance you will.

As someone who played one of those games that required a healer in absolutely freaking everything…..

Rutee.1058:

Chrispy.5641:

Yay! I’m Cancer!!!

Yep.

Ten Charrs.

Edit: Seriously, an expansion is imminent This is the normal time in an MMO’s life cycle for players to return; all the moreso when it was B2P. And you idiots are here pretending all strange faces on the forums are ~Mysterious Strangers~ whom, GASP! PLAY OTHER CLASSES.

To be fair, this isn’t what I had in mind, in comparison to the toxic way players tend to treat each other in dungeons and the standards set for LFG, but you know, it qualifies.

I’m not saying you’re a mysterious Stranger, I’m just pointing out that some of the opinions on this thread (base Ranger is okay and wanted) is exactly the opposite of people who have actually played the Ranger for the last three years. There’s a big difference there.

Rutee.1058:

Dradiin.8935:

Chrispy.5641:

Its kind of funny that there’s people posting on here saying that Ranger is in fact useful and wanted. Where the christ were these people for the last three years all the way up until Druid was announced?

Not here defending Ranger, that’s where.

EXACTLY !

None of these guys main a Ranger till POP here yah go Rangers go heal…

I got tired of the cancerous community (I frankly consider the Barrens or the Gold Saucer a step up from this game half the time, and that’s pathetic), and was stressed out trying to keep up with the Living STory’s achievements (while trying to advance in the base game’s), so I played different games. I only recently had another class besides Ranger hit 80. Not that it’s your god kitten ed business.

Yay! I’m Cancer!!!

Friggen forum bugs…..

SNIEVES.3964:

kinda like what happend with guild wars 1, with the monks, but the problem is guild wars 2 is not set up for a dedicated healer

This is one of the problems with the Druid, and any other healing build in the game. You can’t target allies and use skills on them, only things flagged as enemies.

As a result, all healing in the game could be considered “Indirect Healing”. In order to heal, you have to position yourself properly so allies fall in your cone of influence and you have to use ground targeting to specifically heal any Allies.

That makes a full on healing spec kind of a disaster in my opinion, and its amazing that the Druid can work at all with every aspect of the game play working against it.

Well, complaining that the Druid doesn’t deal enough damage fits in perfectly with the running Ranger community argument of the last three years that Ranger doesn’t do enough damage. And since people want that damage problem addressed (you know the whole Ranger 70 / Pet 30 argument that is more like Ranger 85 / Pet 15, but the argument still stands because pet dies instantly in more difficult content…), and only got a healer and little else….

I say let them continue to complain. I think they have every right to and the fact that people keep posting the argument that its just another option without addressing the main issue these guys have just shows how disingenuous you guys really are. Or are you guys really going to tell me that Ranger is 100% viable and not at all handicapped by its poor mandatory AI?…Or the fact that we don’t have specifically single target or AoE weapons and as a result, all of our weapons are kind of half effective at both?

(also, I really like the Druid specialization and I don’t want it to change in any way really, but, we need the core issues with Ranger fixed, like 3 YEARS AGO)

Its kind of funny that there’s people posting on here saying that Ranger is in fact useful and wanted. Where the christ were these people for the last three years all the way up until Druid was announced?

Not here defending Ranger, that’s where.

Except that you are supposed to be healing to build up your astral force. Why should dealing damage give you anything at all?

@Stickerhappy….
The developers already stated they want the Druid to be THE healer, which negates everything you have posted so far.

@Anduriell…
I agree with everything you said. Druid is not going to work without the appropriate boon support, and while it has the burst healing it brings little else to the table.

cozzybob.9175:

I didn’t think about combining it with a trap build or general condi ranger, but that might actually work. Especially with that trait that entangles when you daze, stun or knockback someone… could make for interesting gameplay. Did you decide at all to use apoth, maybe, for the condi and healing power, or would you rather just go full rabid (for the extra bleeds at least on crit)? I’m just wondering if Druid is still has merit without any healing power.

I still got to try out Apothecary (and Cleric, Nomad, and even Magi), but So far I’ve only used Rabid stats. I’ve been using Viper’s Nest and Flame Trap with Glyph of Equality (or Spike Trap but cool down’s longer) once the two traps trigger to proc ancient seeds.

I also experimented with Glyph of Unity and Signet of Stone, combined with Skirmishing’s Sharpened Edges, Hidden Barbs, and Most Dangerous Game. Use Signet of Stone and Glyph of Unity once your health drops low enough. Not really effective or useful in any situation, but its hilarious to see a group of enemies bleed themselves to death.

I kind of said “kitten Healing” because that’s what everyone else was going to do. The first thing I did was make a Trap build with Rabid stats, using Druid traits to fill in some of the holes trap builds have.

No real difference in PvE. Ranger condition builds are strong right now and that’s that. In WvW, I did survive for longer than I normally would.

Photinous.4628:

The new dino pets will be meta now, RIP birds.

They’re not really that great. One thing I’m testing is to see if the Bristleback’s Spike Barrage skill tracks its target. I thought I saw it a few times last night but didn’t really think about it much.

Wouldn’t that be awesome on half of our pet F2 skills, especially drakes?

Healing’s not really my thing, so I’m not sure if its pathetic or not that the first thing I did as a Druid was make a Rabid Trap build, and use a few glyphs and celestial avatar form to supplement the build’s weakness.

I also used Glyph of Unity, because you can combine that with Sharpened Edges. Every single attack transferred to your enemies can critically hit, and therefore has a chance to proc bleeding. Combine that with most dangerous game and hidden barbs for even more damage. Find yourself stuck in a group of enemies and you can let that group of those “hard to kill beta” enemies kill themselves with the use of just one skill.

Pretty sure it will fail hard in the other game mode I play (WvW) unless I use Signet of Stone.

Another observation (that got mentioned everywhere 50 times already) is that if you have trouble building up your Celestial form, Troll Unguent is easy mode.

Prophet.1584:

mistsim.2748:

Don’t post that! someone (wink wink nudge nudge) that hates rangers will see it and nerf it into obscurity. that’s almost the exact same build i’d put together

“Rangers” who hate actual Rangers will see it and demand it get nerfed into obscurity. Seriously, I’ve seen way more self proclaimed “Rangers” crying nerf in the last few days than anyone else.

One thing reading this thread has taught me is that unlike the other professions, many Ranger mains are self aware enough to admit that their stuff is overpowered when it is. Unfortunately, that right there is one of the reasons we’re weaker than everyone else is. Nowhere else will you ever see Warriors arguing against Warriors or Thieves arguing against Thieves on the finer points of one specific effect or other and how OP it is.

Puck.9612:

Chrispy.5641:

Shirk.6421:

Still not used to it?

Fixing things that give us an advantage = 1-2 days

Fixing things that give us a disadvantage = 3-7 years

Fixed it for you.

Fixed it for you.

….yep….we’ll probably see the right fixes after 3-7 Decades at this rate.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Chrispy.5641:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Chrispy.5641:

Zalani.9827:

The thing is now I’m worried about how Druid is going to be handled post release of HoT.

Is other professions going to knee jerk a nerf to it because they don’t like the healing/etc?
I’m almost expecting it to get nerfed at this point, and I don’t think I am going to be surprised by this point if it did.
It’s been about 3 years now that I’m used to not being a wanted class in most game areas and being the most bottom level. I really love the class and it’s my most favorite one.
But I want to actually be an effective member of a team and not have such a bad stigma. It’s just tiring after a bit.

They (anet) tried already to justify the virtual perma daze with Druid and Celestial form, but they’ll quickly take that statement back and issue a nerf once every other class and “Rangers” start moaning about it. Meanwhile, us Rangers will wonder why we’re so hated and ignored….

With Moment of Clarity it is an AoE 6s daze on kitten cd. it will be changed.

Oh it totally will, however…..Roy really did try to justify the up-time already (without Moment of Clarity. I didn’t even think about that….), which means either the Druid will be nerfed, or Moment of Clarity will be nerfed, which will render many of our builds less effective. It will happen, no matter who says it wont.

Ya, well Lunar Impact should never have been made with such a Daze duration, if they nerf it by 50%, it will still be good.

And Ice Bow should have never been made with the damage it did, but it did, and it lasted….for three years….with dev after dev saying it was either fine or not commenting on it at all. How much do you want to bet that nothing on the Druid lasts even half as long? …But hey! It’ll still be good!…right?!?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

Since the change to its weaker effect (and providing you combine the effect with Fortifying Bond), it allows you to stack might on the pet very quickly, and it also allows you to keep other boon durations up much longer….on the pet. On the Ranger, the effect and the short durations are kind of useless.

Heal as One was a Burst healing skill that we used only when our health was low enough. When the boon copying effect was added, it gave Rangers an opportunity to premeditate the use of the skill, sometimes not getting healed at all in exchange for a large power-up from the pet.

The Nerf turned the skill back into what it was before, giving us only the first option. None of the boons last long enough to take advantage of. Here are three possible solutions :::

1) Make effect only apply in combat. This way Rangers can’t pre-load a bunch of quickness for cheap shots and even cheaper kills. This will allow the Ranger to gain some pretty extreme power as the fight goes on, but honestly, its the fault of the enemy player if they can’t kill the Ranger before this happens.

2) Increase boon duration. Fortifying Bond’s durations aren’t long enough to take advantage of any of them. Actually, they barely last long enough (except might) for the pet to take advantage of. Combining both effects actually gives the pet some pretty powerful stuff, but not the Ranger…..On Heal as One….Doubling some boons, and Tripling others will allow us to take proper advantage of the effect and will add back the premeditation that was with the old effect. Basically this :::::

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Tweak the base durations please. Please. Near-useless for most.

Suggestions:

‘We Heal as One!’

The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. Little tweaks could give a bit of punch without breaking the game;

• Quickness – From 2 to 4s
• Protection – From 2 to 4s
• Resistance – From 2 to 4s
• Fury – From 3 to 8s
• Stability – From 3 to 6s (it’s just 1 stack after all… A change that wasn’t mentioned as it would copy all stacks of stability before the sept 30 patch)
• Swiftness – From 3 to 8s
• Vigor – From 3 to 8s
• Aegis – From 5s to 8s
• Regeneration – from 5 to 8s
• Retaliation – 5s is perfect
• Might – For this one, either keep its 3 stacks limit but make it 15s or lower its duration to 8s but remove the stack limit.

3) Give back all Might stacks instead of limiting it to 3. And Combine this with fix number 2. Almost every other profession can stack more might, faster, and for longer with fewer important skill uses and key presses than this required. And some professions can give a party of 5 players more might, faster, and for longer with fewer important skill uses and key presses than this required. Why are Rangers not allowed to maintain might even on themselves?

Oberon Vex.1389:

Chrispy.5641:

Zalani.9827:

The thing is now I’m worried about how Druid is going to be handled post release of HoT.

Is other professions going to knee jerk a nerf to it because they don’t like the healing/etc?
I’m almost expecting it to get nerfed at this point, and I don’t think I am going to be surprised by this point if it did.
It’s been about 3 years now that I’m used to not being a wanted class in most game areas and being the most bottom level. I really love the class and it’s my most favorite one.
But I want to actually be an effective member of a team and not have such a bad stigma. It’s just tiring after a bit.

They (anet) tried already to justify the virtual perma daze with Druid and Celestial form, but they’ll quickly take that statement back and issue a nerf once every other class and “Rangers” start moaning about it. Meanwhile, us Rangers will wonder why we’re so hated and ignored….

With Moment of Clarity it is an AoE 6s daze on kitten cd. it will be changed.

Oh it totally will, however…..Roy really did try to justify the up-time already (without Moment of Clarity. I didn’t even think about that….), which means either the Druid will be nerfed, or Moment of Clarity will be nerfed, which will render many of our builds less effective. It will probably happen unfortunately.

Zalani.9827:

The thing is now I’m worried about how Druid is going to be handled post release of HoT.

Is other professions going to knee jerk a nerf to it because they don’t like the healing/etc?
I’m almost expecting it to get nerfed at this point, and I don’t think I am going to be surprised by this point if it did.
It’s been about 3 years now that I’m used to not being a wanted class in most game areas and being the most bottom level. I really love the class and it’s my most favorite one.
But I want to actually be an effective member of a team and not have such a bad stigma. It’s just tiring after a bit.

They (anet) tried already to justify the virtual perma daze with Druid and Celestial form, but they’ll quickly take that statement back and issue a nerf once every other class and “Rangers” start moaning about it. Meanwhile, us Rangers will wonder why we’re so hated and ignored….

Shirk.6421:

Still not used to it?

Fixing things that give us an advantage = 1-2 days

Fixing things that give us a disadvantage = 3-7 months

Fixed it for you.

The skill was very obviously over-done on the first go around, but due to people’s constant whining after only a day, its now under-tuned. At least Anet was smart enough to not screw with the healing amount while they added this.

(edited to remove the most negative parts….)

Make the effect only work in combat so Rangers can’t pre-load a bunch of effects before a fight (like we used to do with pet switching bugs). The Ranger will gradually get stronger as a fight goes on, as cooldowns dictate, and it will be your own freaking fault for not killing them fast enough.

Don’t Know Yet,

Druid is Good?

Druid is Bad?

Overpowered Heal Bot?

Will Know Friday

anduriell.6280:

I mean after all this time playing with a class that is plagued of crippling bugs, defective AI companions, being subpar in any area of the game (5th in damage output out of 6?) or
not asking or listening the community of players when changes were applied ending up even in a worse spot than before

After seeing all this disgust about some of the druid details… What would happen if Irenio just decided to go ahead with the exclusively healing theme leaving the druid role only for raid (until ventari comes around)?
Would the ranger sub forums and any opinion website about HoT become a radioactive zone with the angry mob grabbing the pitchforks asking for blood?

Not talking about rerolling another character but about the reactions of the people when they see the druid is another bummer.

Half of the threads on the forum are raving that the Druid is the greatest thing since individually wrapped cheese, and no one has even played it yet. I am predicting at least half of those people to be joining the angry mob by Monday, but who knows? No one’s played it yet, so we don’t actually know if the Druid is good or bad.

Jeeze, everything in here sounds like a day one review to a hundred+ hour, giving judgement before anyone could have possibly played all hundred hours. I smell lots of disappointment in the near future. Because of this, I’m going to be one of the only semi-negative posts in this thread….

Irenio, I will jump on the bandwagon and give you my thanks after I play the Druid on the next beta weekend. All those pretty skill demonstration videos look great and the skill descriptions sound great on paper, but will they hold up when thousands of us are trying them out with every possible combination? We’ll see….

The only difference between this thread and that 1500 post omega thread is that there is a 1st post with “structure” (and if by “structure” you mean a giant header that says The Druid Feedback Thread). Come on, you can do better than that!

…that said, here’s my very little feedback. Overall I do like the specialization and the new pets, but I won’t have more to say really until I get to play the specialization on the next beta weekend.

Staff Skills
Solar Beam - Its an Auto Attack, so its pretty much fine as it is. I’m not sure the healing amounts really justifies the damage trade-off though but we’ll need to actually play in the next beta weekend to know. 3 targets is kind of low.
Astral Wisp - I see nothing wrong with this skill.
Ancestral Grace - Could use an invulnerability. Stream didn’t really show or say if there was one or not.
Vine Surge Needs more targets. 3 targets is kind of low.
Sublime Conversion - Converts all projectiles into heals? Yes please!
Weapon General - Many Ranger weapons have at least one skill that is animal themed and one skill that benefits the pet in some way. Staff doesn’t. Not a big deal, just different.

Glyphs - I like them the way they are. I have no suggestions yet.

Celestial skills - so many heals…..but I like them the way they are. I have no suggestions yet.

Pets
Tiger - Did you guys show us its F2 skill?!? What is it?!?
General - Looks like pets still have to stop moving in order to attack. This still makes some pets (Dogs and Cats) way better than all the others as a function of how short their attack animations are.

Pretty much anything with healing power.

You’ll still kill most things with 2 or 3 presses of the 1 key with Beserker’s though.

I am so confused right now…..How many different conversations are going on right now and how many were just stopped because of this mega thread merging crap?

Here’s the best way to address everyone’s complaints….

Wait until the beta weekend so you can play it for yourself. We won’t really know how excellently or poorly designed it is until then.

…
…
….wow….

Ojyh.9842:

By the way, nothing says that warriors can’t hit people with a toothbrush, so it would be ok to have a Dentist Warrior elite spec ?

yes

Kehlian.4380:

Chrispy.5641:

(basically a repost….)

Its not that its wierd that Guildwars 2’s Druid has a lot of skills that are Sun, Moon and Celestial themed (these Celestial bodies are part of ‘Nature’…Heavenly or Celestial nature I guess….) but its a little out of place that there are two skills that are plant based, and almost all of the traits are plant/earthly nature based, only like two or three of the traits are really named the same way as the weapon/glyph skills.

There could be more cohesion in the naming at least.

I… actually have to agree with that.

What bother me the most is the confusion with the armor set that has the same name.

so is Berserker….They’re kind of running out of names here.

I kind of want to play it first to be sure (also want to know what the base Ranger changes might be when the Expansion releases if there are any), but I pretty much agree.