Guild Wars 2

I play RPGs (but not normally MMO’s) for the CGI scenes. I have since 1997. The two scenes were Impressive. I can’t really think of much more to say.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Hmmmm.

This sounds familiar.

Sounds like the last four dark/shadow/reaper/dragoon/reaver/ knight class ideas from the last two days.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that…I just still don’t support the idea because it still just sounds like a darker version of a Warrior/Guardian with one or two new skill types.

Necromancer should get a Great Axe if there’s any new weapons. Why? What do you think an Executioner’s weapons of choice is?

I know what they did last summer. They bought larger tables.

Ranger should get a Staff for their next weapon, or really, anything that’s not ranged.

No to Rifles and Pistols since Rangers already have 3 ranged weapons, and there is no reason to even think of adding one unless its different enough from Longbow, Shortbow, and Axe to justify its existence. “Rifles are Cool” isn’t enough reason to me.

While its true that there’s almost a 100% chance a Staff would be a ranged weapon, there are many more ways to make it different from already existing ranged weapons than you could with a rifle.

My issues are….

… the broken search function,

…As well as the fact that the dev tracker is flooded with Anet responses about tech support and account issues, something no one cares about 99 out of 100 times until they are the one with those issues. Often, the responses you are looking for are buried by the end of a single day, let alone two weeks.

If there is a specific response I’m looking for, for a specific issue, it can take awhile.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Here’s why I also believe that an expansion is coming; http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/192028.pdf?attachmentId=192028
If you review this data they not only call for the expansion but say it will come in the 3rd quarter of 2015 which is key piece of information in all of this, why? Well if you go back to the trailer video and stop it at the frame where Marjory is looking at the worm stuck in jade there are inscriptions on the crates in new krytan which translates to “Oct31 live content” which to me fits exactly into the predictions with the stock company.
Now I know a lot of people argue this company has called for an expansion as far back as 2013 but I think that was more along the lines of them saying that they would be building an expansion. Also don’t kid yourself, if this company is making these claims and are way out of whack their reputation takes a massive hit and they wouldn’t risk that.
Don’t for a minute think that NCSoft stock success doesn’t take precedence over Anets want of secrecy because that’s not realistic, and this article is all about boosting stock value.

Those are just stock analysts though. Its not unheard of for them to just make guesses when it comes to video games, especially when your dealing with a company that refuses to share information until the week before its release.

CMM.6712:

Wetpaw.3487:

Sure Anet has done some unique things like the art style, combat, WvW (kinda), but I wouldn’t call a lack of content or the direction Anet has taken as “different” or that “outside of the box.”

No mounts, no dueling and the other wow stuff you want to try to alter the game with, are part of the reasons I play GW2 and do not play those other games. I like GW2 because it is different and their direction is not like other games, and doesn’t want or need to rely on content in other games. What you see as lacking I see as refreshing and continuance of precedence set in GW1 not having these types of content. That historical precedence and wanting/liking the differences between GW2 and other mmo’s are the reasons you get the dead horse pictures, merged threads, and the replies that are given in the multiple threads, generally with the same posters and the same circular arguments.

I like being able to share nodes, and to casually wander around without glitter ponies, blocking my view of objects, bosses, whatever the case may be. Or duel requests/chat harassment, or superiority complex/elitist players being hostile/aggressive towards me, my friends, or guild mates. Thanks but no thanks, there are other mmos with that content, I’ll take the one that wants to be different.

So, does that also mean that GW2 shouldn’t have gear like WoW, shouldn’t have levels like WoW, and shouldn’t have classes like WoW? I suppose that we also shouldn’t have combat either, since that would also be like WoW.

Doesn’t seem that different to me. Even the whole Buy-To-Play thing is done by more than just Guildwars now.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

TexZero.7910:

Got my bingo card ready!

Yusssss

Gonna have ta play a drinking game with my friends when they livestream that speech.

I was thinking the same thing. At least it’ll be fun if it turns out I wasted an hour of my life.

Mounts already exist in the game. We have a Riding broom, a magic carpet, and a sonic tunneling tool. They are purely, 100% cosmetic, and do not increase player speed. All they change is your movement animation out of combat.

Those are the kind of “Mounts” I would like to see more of. Maybe a Charr Tank, an Asura Golem, or a Moa/Dolyak/Horse/Devourer/etc. if you really want to ride something. Change your movement animations out of combat, but no actual speed boost.

And there should be no speed boost because movement speed is/should be factored into class balance. Warriors should be slower than Thieves and Rangers, etc.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I still think the OP could benefit from not giving mere words on a screen so much power.

Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me….though, words get people in trouble more than the sticks and stones.

Wetpaw.3487:

a good related read,
http://massively.joystiq.com/2015/01/06/flameseeker-chronicles-is-2015-the-guild-wars-2-expansion-year/

Yes, it was a good read.

Also, I don’t want a “Traditional Expansion”. I just want the game to be expanded, not just endlessly polished features that are released with the living world/feature packs as if this was the expansion style content we were expecting all along.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I can’t care too much either way. Anet has a track record of getting backlash whenever it does anything it all, whether it be sticking to its principles or acquiescing for a large group of like-minded gamers/focus groups.

All game companies get backlash for that. Take Ubisoft for example. In the same week last year, they got backlash for both innovating and trying new things on a franchise (AC : Unity), and keeping a franchise glued to its roots by releasing more of the same (AC : Rogue). The same people expressed anger at both, and on one article/forum, were outraged at the game for trying new things, and on another, were outraged at the game for releasing what worked.

While its way less extreme in Anet’s case, its still there. If they break away from what they are currently doing and release an expansion, there’s going to be people angry. If they stick to living world/polish packs (I mean feature packs), people are going to be angry (like me). Its literally one of those kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t kind of situations.

Symmetry is overrated. There is absolutely no reason to have a 3rd heavy armor class except for the sake of having a 3rd heavy armor class. Unless there’s an actual reason beyond that, making an ‘evil’ warrior seems pointless. I don’t even care if it was already said that the next profession will be a heavy to round everything out, its still a bad idea unless this third class can stand on their own, instead of just being a warrior with an ‘evil’ tag, or a heavy armor version of another profession.

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Djinn — do you sense Guhracie is “labeling?” He mentions his position was to not participate when certain words are used as a slur. If you feel he’s making his personal choice too hurriedly, it’s a harmless choice, as he is choosing not to participate. He’s not saying he’ll get into the thread and flame the forum member, or that he’ll report and hope they get smited by all the powers of The Six Gods. He’s just saying “If someone uses slurs, I’m out.”

Or do you see it differently?

I completely agree with Guhracie and said so shortly after the OP. In my post above yours here, I’m speaking about the various people kittenponded to the OP defending their right to negatively label (slur) – especially those thinking it is fine to call someone a “complainer” if they had a post(s) in which they were complaining.

Complainer is not necessarily a slur, unless you consider voicing a complaint to be a bad thing I suppose. It means one who is complaining. It is an accurate description of behavior. Were it to be carried beyond current activity, or used dismissively, then
It might very well be intended as a slur.

Is refering to someone participating on these forums as a forum goer or poster a slur ? How about player in the context of a GW2 player ? Customer ? All labels.

And there’s an important thing that we haven’t really gone over (and is mostly being ignored). Its not just the label, its the context for how the label is used. Calling someone a complainer because they are annoyed at something isn’t inherently bad, But this (just an example)…..

Just another Complainer. Ignore her and carry on people!

is definitely a slur of sorts.

People need to look for how the word is used. Just looking for the keyword or key phrase, then immediately dismissing an entire post because of it isn’t really the right way to go about things.

Context is important, and should be taken into consideration.

People are going to do that. We’re people. We’re not always civil and not even the most perfectly written code of conduct in existence and a moderation staff of a billion people is going to ever change that fact. Everything you just described is a problem, but, so are the Stop Complaining, This game is great, NPE isn’t Bad, inflation is okay, Precursors should be rare, To all those concerned about X, etc. threads that try to say that everything is perfect, stop complaining and carry on. I doubt that all those NPE threads were made just to rage about how bad they thought it was.

The problem I have is when positive people jump into threads that are making the more minor complaints, criticisms, observations, and suggestion threads, and end up ruining what could have been a good discussion. And I also have a problem when negative people jump into the positive threads and doing the same thing.

Djinn.9245:

Chrispy.5641:

You should add Folks to the list. That slur refers to people in general. I am not a person in general. I am a unique person and not in any general sense, and I consider it an offensive personal attack against me that you would use the word Folks, as if to group all of us together.

I’m confused about this one – “folks” means “people”.

Folks mean People in General, not People

Djinn.9245:

Chrispy.5641:

My point is that most of those words on the list aren’t anymore offensive than the word folks. The word Complainers especially. You’re trying to imply that we shouldn’t make a post replying to everyone complaining about something, and must use some English gymnastics to say what I want to say in a different way? Yeah, I’m not that good with gymnastics, in any form, so, I’ll keep using Complainers.

There is a huge difference between calling something written “a complaint” and calling a person “a complainer”. Applying this type of label to a person is an attack. Talk about what people say, not about the person.

So, instead of saying “To those Complainers out there”, I should instead say “To those that are Complaining out there”? They mean pretty much the same thing outside of formal/legal English, since the -er suffix on the word means at a most basic level that the word Complainers means that a person is doing an action indicated by the root word (in this case complain : to express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event.)

This means that a Complainer is a person that is expressing dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or event.

There is nothing sexist, racist, derogatory, discriminatory, or offensive in any way by calling someone a complainer, if complaining is something that person happened to be doing at the time.

To say that calling someone a complainer an attack would also mean that making any reference to someone complaining about anything, is also an attack, and this would mean that other harmless descriptors, such as Players or Folks, is also offensive.

This is different from an actual offensive word such as Whiner, which is bascally someone complaining in a petty/trivial/childish way. What you think is trivial/childish is not what he/she thinks is trivial/childish, therefore the term is somewhat accusatory, and therefore offensive. You’re also implying that the person is childish, which, last I checked, all of us are definitely older than the age of kid, so, its offensive in that way too.

TL;DR…..Its obvious that we’re not going to agree, and anything I type is probably going to do nothing to convince you otherwise, so I’ll say the same thing I said to the OP. Your entitled to your opinion, and I’m entitled to mine. That is all.

IndigoSundown.5419:

.
@ Chrispy
Folks is, as you put it, a general term. I would not refer to you as “folks,” though I might refer to players who share a common idea or desire as “the folks who prefer X.” There is nothing derogatory about the term.

I disagree with the inclusion of “complainer” or “complainers” as absolute terms to avoid. A complainer is simply someone who is complaining. It can be used as an assault, (i.e., "X is just a complainer) or simply as a referent (i.e., “The complainers are upset because they feel that the new trait system is alt unfriendly.”).

Then you missed my point, in that many of the words on the list (like complainers) aren’t really anymore offensive than that word is.

Behellagh.1468:

Chrispy.5641:

yolo swaggins.2570:

…snip….

Its never as simple as “Don’t like it? GTFO!”,

but it is as simple as “Want me to leave because you don’t like my opinion?….so?”

But often those expressing negative opinions also state they’ve stopped playing the game months ago. So why continue to hang about on the forum? Injecting themselves in newbie question threads telling them to leave because the game is horrible?

If your favorite novel series goes off the rails (what happen to you Anita Blake) you stop buying the series. If you think the quality of food at your favorite restaurant is now terrible, you stop going. The problem with this game not having a subscription is that non-players don’t get their forum access revoked. They would have to pay monthly to spew their negative opinions with impunity. They have decided that instead of leaving the game to argue over fundamental design decisions the devs made when developing the game that will never change.

I just wish that the higher ups would have the cojones to say X will never happen rather than the boiler plate “everything is on the table”. As long as you give them a sliver of hope we will always have incipid mount and duel threads till the end of time.

If you aren’t supporting the game by either playing or paying, then your opinion is only slightly more important than someone who never played.

The problem is that some of those expressing ‘Positive’ opinions are actually being quite negative when they do nothing all day but claim how positive something is, and often ignore the OP to the point of disrespecting whatever the original forum topic was. You can see examples of that all over any internet forum (and in this very thread), and its no better than people who have complaints about the game. It goes nowhere, and it drowns out the original point of the topic, which is something the negative guys do a lot as well. Either way, its wrong.

Also, I last logged in last month, I still support the game, and I still have complaints about it because I do play occasionally (will be playing when the next living story releases), and I still have hope that the next big thing will suck me back into a 300 hour black hole so I can enjoy the world of Tyria again.

Many people complain about very certain aspects of the game because they actually do like the game and want to get back into it, not because they are scrooge all year round and hate the game with such a passion that they log in here to purposely troll everyone (and I highly doubt that anyone does that). And it doesn’t help when the same dozen people always reply to these negative feedback threads saying that there is nothing wrong with the game at all, then turn around and claim that the game isn’t perfect and that they have their own complaints about the game, just not whatever the topic is at the time.

edited for some clarity.

You should add Folks to the list. That slur refers to people in general. I am not a person in general. I am a unique person and not in any general sense, and I consider it an offensive personal attack against me that you would use the word Folks, as if to group all of us together.

My point is that most of those words on the list aren’t anymore offensive than the word folks. The word Complainers especially. You’re trying to imply that we shouldn’t make a post replying to everyone complaining about something, and must use some English gymnastics to say what I want to say in a different way? Yeah, I’m not that good with gymnastics, in any form, so, I’ll keep using Complainers.

Shill and Whiners, yeah, those are always offensive, no matter how they are used. I’m not even sure why White Knight is even a thing here in these forums. Its as random as using Sea Lion to describe people who purposely press/support an issue for no other purpose than to Troll, but claim that its okay because they are being polite about it. Offensive and should be used a lot less…..but so random.

But, hey? You are Entitled to your opinion, and I’m Entitled to mine, thus, I will not make this pledge with you. Good luck though. It’d be interesting to see if this changes anything at all, because, yeah, words are powerful, and it makes this place more Toxic when certain words are used, that shouldn’t be used in what is supposedly polite society.

yolo swaggins.2570:

…snip….

Its never as simple as “Don’t like it? GTFO!”,

but it is as simple as “Want me to leave because you don’t like my opinion?….so?”

Beldin.5498:

Mikali.9651:

but it IS easier to use them!

But not to learn them .. buying 3 books for 10s 1g and 2g was much easier than
either do stuff fot 30+ hours to get them all or pay masses of gold ans SPs to buy them.

Of course thats how i understand the word “learn” in this sentence .. just to get them
so that you can use them. But of course its maybe just because i’m a stupid german
who don’t really understands the english language when people with all its finesse
when people start to nitpick.

My opinion on the trait stuff….

The entire system was one step forward and ten steps back. Everyone paid attention only to the step forward and how good an idea it was, while ignoring the bad stuff.

While you can change traits for free, everything else about the system was screwed up, because instead of paying to unlock an entire tier of traits at once, you now have to learn each trait individually, and either pay gold and Skill points for each one, or go search for all of them. Because of the new ways the traits worked, low level characters were weaker all around, so enemies had to be adjusted to compensate, which actually made level 80’s even more overpowered in low level zones than they were. It was an unnecessary amount of bloat and work added to a system that worked just fine the way it was except for having to find a trainer to reset traits.

I’m kind of glad I’m a one character kind of player who already had a level 80, because there was no way in hell I was going to spend several dozen hours doing all that all over again.

nexxe.7081:

http://south.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/guild-wars-2-beyond-the-point-of-no-return

Guild Wars 2: Beyond the Point of No Return
Join ArenaNet president and co-founder Mike O’Brien and Guild Wars 2 game director Colin Johanson for an exclusive sneak peek at what’s next in Guild Wars 2 and be among the first to hear how we’re setting up a new framework for how an MMO can grow its universe. The Living World was just the beginning.

PANELISTS:
Mike O’Brien [President and Co-Founder, ArenaNet], Colin Johanson [Guild Wars 2 Director, ArenaNet]

Just the beginning? Generally that means that BIG things are coming, not jus Big things.

And its interesting wording there… “setting up a new framework for how an MMO can grow its universe.”

There is not much more I can say without getting yellow carded, so I’ll only say that I hope there’s some truth to that sentence, and I really hope its not just pompous padding that can be ignored (something I’ve seen far too much lately among press releases by video game companies).

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Think Tank Predictions For 2015

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2014/12/18/the-think-tank-mmo-industry-predictions-for-2015/

Apparently the media thinks your going to at least announce a major expansion; the challenge as been set!

That entire article was this:::

Sarcasm noun
- The use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Chrispy.5641:

And you haven’t artificially bloated your cons with self-evident statements (since that’s what you’re calling it)? Your Iphone statement is not only artificially bloated, but flat wrong (and also not self-evident). Apple regularly updates the Iphone’s operating system with new features, regularly adding more variety to what you can do. If you’re referring to the look of the phone. Almost all people have a case for their phone. The case shows their personality instead of the phone itself. If Variety was so confusing and overwhelming then all phone cases would be the same color and design.

If you’re so afraid that I’m unable to provide anything valuable, then you might want to take a closer look at yourself and your unsurprisingly biased opinions disguised as bipartisan forum arguments.

You totally missed the main strong argument of the iPhone analogy and went for strawman arguments. I think at this point it would be safe to assume that I touched a sensitive subject of yours and you’re now simply bashing the whole thread.

If I missed the main strong argument, then why don’t you tell me what it is? Or, maybe you don’t want to tell me what it is because such an argument doesn’t exist, or I already disproved that argument. Or, you don’t have an argument, and by refusing to post the main ‘strong’ argument of the iphone, you are admitting that you in fact do no have an argument, and therefore, are artificially inflating the cons with useless facts and opinions instead of an actual argument against whatever point it is.

Instead of acting like a mediator of sorts (which seemed like the whole point of this thread), you are trying everything in your power to leave the cons as giant, bloated walls of text that don’t actually argue against anything….why?

Go on, post the “Your bashing this thread” statement again. And do it tomorrow or next week the next time I reply to this thread. I’ll be patient, and I’ll wait for your answer if you can come up with one. Until then, this thread is nothing more than a giant opinion piece poorly disguised as middle ground.

Bandit.8279:

Chrispy.5641:

Everyone against OP is basically demanding that you do a mindless farm in the same two areas instead of actually playing the game the way you want to play.

….yeah….how about no.

Dungeons, node gathering, meta-events, champ farming, Dry Top, SW and Orr event farming and playing the TP are just some of the things you can do off the top of my head.

There is no rush to get ascended or legendary items. Take your time and have fun. The end game gear is not needed to play and enjoy the game.

Happy hunting!

Edit: I forgot Southsun and Fractals. Even Guild Missions and WvW can award ascended accessories.

I love how the internet thinks that a list makes them right somehow.

Its been established on this thread (and thousands of other places) that some places are more effective for getting gold than others. Most of the most effective places are mindless, and what isn’t ‘mindless’ can be done using mindless tactics, or has a daily cap to just how much reward you can get from something. I can never get anywhere near as much gold doing WvW as I can running events in Orr, and that is the point you missed.

Besides that. Min/Maxing stats matters in at least one place (WvW). a Few hundred stat point do make all the difference in a fight, even in a game that is allegedly all about “Skill”

Everyone against OP is basically demanding that you do a mindless farm in the same two areas instead of actually playing the game the way you want to play.

….yeah….how about no.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Chrispy.5641:

For example (expanding one of the pros):::

• More Variety is always good. Different people like different things. New classes can bring back people who tried everything but didn’t find anything they really liked. It can also attract new people to the game that didn’t have a reason to play before. More players equals more revenue. More revenue means more support. More support means a smoother game experience in the future, even with the balancing nightmare more content would inevitably create.

…That wasn’t that hard, and its obvious that you are putting way more effort in the cons than the pros.

• People need water to live. Water is vital for all known forms of life. People are a life form. Without water, people die. Robots do not need water. Robots are made of metal. People are not robots. People are made of 60% water, so they need water to stay alive…

You’re moving from a catch-all argument to artificially bloating up information with self-evident statements – which is what politicians in their speeches and students in their papers do. The NPE has done a great job in treating players like 5-year-olds, but I’m not going to do it; if a person can’t make an obvious connection that “more variety” = “more interested players” = “more money to make new stuff”, then I’m afraid s/he won’t be able to provide anything valuable anyway.

And you haven’t artificially bloated your cons with self-evident statements (since that’s what you’re calling it)? Your Iphone statement is not only artificially bloated, but flat wrong (and also not self-evident). Apple regularly updates the Iphone’s operating system with new features, regularly adding more variety to what you can do. If you’re referring to the look of the phone. Almost all people have a case for their phone. The case shows their personality instead of the phone itself. If Variety was so confusing and overwhelming then all phone cases would be the same color and design.

If you’re so afraid that I’m unable to provide anything valuable, then you might want to take a closer look at yourself and your unsurprisingly biased opinions disguised as bipartisan forum arguments.

Lishtenbird.2814:

….snip….

Even if some people know all the reasons for getting a cat beyond “Cats are Cool!”, not everyone does (especially Dog lovers, that’s why they own dogs). There are many people who have no idea what the pros are for getting a cat, so, if you’re going to convince someone to get a cat, you need to list at least as many, if not more, reasons for why getting a cat is better than not getting a cat.

To add some more, simply listing that “More variety is always good” under new classes/skills/etc., then using the lame excuse that its the catch all reason (your cat example) shows just how one sided your opinion is, and shows why this thread is not actually helpful to anyone but yourself. Therefore, listing catchall reasons is purposeful deceit in listing less pros than cons, and shows that you are not mediating, or holding middle ground. You’re only telling us your own opinion and trying to disguise it as something its not.

The more I think about, the more I’m convinced that you made this thread solely as a vehicle to post your own opinion at the end of every post. You should remove the conclusion paragraph at the end of every post, and only have the pros and cons, so your opinion stays the hell out of it.

You should also go more in depth with the Pros (instead of using the other lame excuse that cons take longer to explain), so, again, your own opinion stays the hell out of this thread…if that’s what you’re trying to do, if you’re just trying to post your opinion and disguise it as a pros/cons list, keep going for it.

For example (expanding one of the pros):::

• More Variety is always good. Different people like different things. New classes can bring back people who tried everything but didn’t find anything they really liked. It can also attract new people to the game that didn’t have a reason to play before. More players equals more revenue. More revenue means more support. More support means a smoother game experience in the future, even with the balancing nightmare more content would inevitably create.

…That wasn’t that hard, and its obvious that you are putting way more effort in the cons than the pros.

Yunielesca.2850:

It is, as it is an option in inventory options.

But its still not an option in options. Its an option in options in the inventory menu, not an option in inventory options.

Azhure.1857:

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne, be more specific please. Where in options would be helpful.

Its the Options tab in the top right corner of your Inventory window.

That would mean its not an option in options.

NetHack(original) and Dwarf Fortress have entirely text based graphics. Dwarf Fortress has almost entirely text based graphics because giving the game more graphical representations at all beyond text, would require way too much work for the small number of developers to do. Graphics were sacrificed and the gameplay was all the better for it (and its actually a pretty darn good game but graphics are still beyond an eyesore). (And….I said this three times now about graphics or story or sound being sacrificed for the other when resources are expensive. are you paying attention?)

On everything else…..eh…..what?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I was meaning more the NES/Famicom Metroid. Where the story was only in the eyecatch on the title screen after leaving it idle, or in the end screen. Super Metroid had a story built in, sure, but it was the third in the series and reinventing the game over again into something more expansive.

It is also the only Metroid game I can stand to play for longer than an hour.

Oh, original Metroid. You should probably read the Instruction booklet if you still have it. The thing about old games, they had a choice between graphics, sound, and in-game text/tutorial/story. Metroid had decent graphics and sound design for the time, but memory is expensive, so, instead of compromising the graphics and sound, the story was printed in the instruction manual. It was done out of necessity, not because the game was better off without it.

Yeah, you know what else is a thing about old games? The manuals quite often being one of the first things lost and thus second-hand games (most of mine were) are missing it. I think for the NES I got roughly 20% of the games new and only when I got them for Christmas or a birthday. So, I also got to miss the infamous manual story for Metal Gear (NES) :) (I later got to read it off scanned copies.)

The weird thing is Metroid would have had space for a battery save game, but instead had passwords. So it could have actually been built a little better but . . . at least it hasn’t been given a complete remake treatment yet.

And much like a lot of people . . . I’m sorry, I have to judge what you put in the game/book/movie to be fair rather than all the stuff which never made it into the product because the writers either ran out of time, ran out of money, or ran out of space. (It may cause me to give credit for having good ideas but . . . if you can’t execute them for whatever reason, you still get a lesser grade and a “see me after class”.)

That’s why I mostly poke at older games for having a lack of story going through them – the story was either in the manuals or just badly conveyed on the screen. And I’d cut them some slack but NetHack manages better in most cases.

NetHack manages better….., except for the horrendous graphics and sound, which had to be sacrificed out of necessity for all that text. I’m also pretty sure I just went over that in my last post. So based on that, NetHack is twice as bad and you need a better example (…I suggest Ninja Gaiden, which had good graphics, sound design, cutscenes, and even a coherent story for the time)

Aside from all of that, a game is just a set of rules, and your following those rules whenever you play a video game. You can do that without any story or context, but, its pretty freaking boring unless A) its a competitive game (GW2’s PvP and WvW), or B) you’re making up a story as you go along, which everyone does at some point anyways, in game story or not. I’d still rather the developers tell me why I need to go kill the dragon instead of being told to do it just because, and I’m left making up a reason myself.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I was meaning more the NES/Famicom Metroid. Where the story was only in the eyecatch on the title screen after leaving it idle, or in the end screen. Super Metroid had a story built in, sure, but it was the third in the series and reinventing the game over again into something more expansive.

It is also the only Metroid game I can stand to play for longer than an hour.

Oh, original Metroid. You should probably read the Instruction booklet if you still have it. The thing about old games, they had a choice between graphics, sound, and in-game text/tutorial/story. Metroid had decent graphics and sound design for the time, but memory is expensive, so, instead of compromising the graphics and sound, the story was printed in the instruction manual. It was done out of necessity, not because the game was better off without it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

She could have worded it better… is she opposed to giant walls of text instead of lore-dumps? because ‘lore-dumps’ are very necessary for any invented world to function. The opening scene of pretty much any Disney movie ever is essentially a lore-dump, just with song and moving pictures instead of giant walls of text.

It’s possible to have an invented world function without lore-dumps. Minecraft does

Though without being snarky, there are other games I’ve played where lore-dumps or “exposition bombs” aren’t necessary and don’t matter. What do I mean? Well think back for a moment and answer this:

How much did you really need to know about the Mushroom Kingdom? Or Hyrule? Zebes?

Good games and worlds can exist without pulling doorstopper books of lore out to validate themselves. Especially ones which can rely well on “Show Don’t Tell”, which can be few and far between . . . since that can be another tricky thing to pull off inside the frame of a video game properly.

I’ve never played the games, but I understand Silent Hill used to be good at this sort of thing.

…on older videogames, I had no interest in Super Metroid at first. Then I watched my brother play a new game. I watched the opening cutscene and was like “Wow, there’s actually a reason to be shooting everything in sight!” Instead of controlling Samus, having her venture down into the hellhole that is planet Zebes just to shoot and kill the bosses, there was a certain baby metroid we were trying to get back. Not only were we going to get the metroid back, but it was even revealed why we need to get it back before the game was even 5 minutes in. There was context and reason, and we knew about it before we ever controlled the main character, and the past history that Samus had (that was revealed in the opening scene) made the game experience all the richer. You can’t deny that (though you just tried to.)

Your context for playing Terraria is to build, and that game (and minecraft) both dump quite a bit of information if your playing the game for the first time, the rest is made by you (still has a big info dump that is required for new players to enjoy. So does Edge of Space.)

also, Silent Hill has lore-dumps. Pretty much everything does. Even Phineas and Ferb has entire scenes dedicated to telling story and backstory instead of showing cartoony cartoon stuff for all 22 minutes its on air.

I mean, unless you like mindlessly shooting and killing everything in sight with no context and no reason, some people just want entertainment for entertainment and don’t want to think while killing everything in sight. That’s not me, and I’m pretty sure there are plenty of people that think the same way.

Like I said, Lore-dumps are necessary. Walls of Text are not.

Fernling.1729:

@chrispy
I only one person say they are voting gw2 in the eve thread. There is a handful of people saying they are going to vote on WoW, but just about everybody besides 2-3 are unhappy about eve online.

There might be more than one thread. The one I saw has 4 pages.

Addendum : GW2 (and other MMOs). I only one person say GW2 as well, but since I forgot to type the word saw just now, it somehow divided itself by zero and opened a portal in time, making me also forget to type other MMOs.

Also, I had another EVE thread linked, but it leads to a 404 page now.

Besides that, Its an interesting pattern that “everyone” who posts on EVE forums just so happen to be unhappy with their game. ‘Everyone’ who posts on Bungie forums hate Destiny, and ‘everyone’ who posts in Turbine’s forums hate LOTRO. And every game has their white knights who rush in to do damage control.

few things to note….

1) Lots of EVE players on their official forums are voting for GW2 (and other MMOs) because they are disenfranchised with the devs over there. Sounds kind of familiar actually…..

2) The reason why WoW isn’t placed so high is that their moderators are very good about removing threads like that within minutes of creation. EVE’s forums have had several threads removed already (once every few hours). This thread will be gone by Monday morning when our devs get back to work. Because of that, any votes you see is a byproduct of one thread simply existing longer than another.

3) No matter how a game expands and adds new content, reworks old systems, or fixed two year old bugs, the one deciding factor in what game is best is which one I played the most, which is also the one I enjoyed the most (otherwise, why play at all?)
….
Based on that criteria, GW2 is not the best MMO of 2014 for me.

She could have worded it better… is she opposed to giant walls of text instead of lore-dumps? because ‘lore-dumps’ are very necessary for any invented world to function. The opening scene of pretty much any Disney movie ever is essentially a lore-dump, just with song and moving pictures instead of giant walls of text.

((….though, even walls of text are necessary. I doubt a library would make much sense in a game world unless you could read books that were there.))

And while history/mythos/backstory isn’t the main story of any invented world, its very necessary for that world to function and for the main story to be enjoyable. Middle Earth wouldn’t be as interesting if it didn’t have 6000+ years of its fictional history backing up the main story. What would Sauron be without that history….just a big shapeless eye in the sky with no reason or purpose other than “Conquer middle earth because I said so”????…BORING!!!!

Same thing, I bet that everything to do with Scarlet last year would have been more interesting to more people if there was more context for what she was doing, instead of trying to force a mysterious character down our throats that turned out to not be mysterious, just unnecessary until it was necessary only to the main story to tell us why she was necessary; and this sentence makes just as much sense as Scarlet did until Anet buckled and released more of her backstory, which would have made more sense if it existed in the game from the start instead of being retconned in after the fact.

Also, I disagree with is this:::

But one thing we’ve always wanted to make really clear is backstory and mythos isn’t story. What you’re actually doing when you’re in the game is very much about the time you’re in the game. It is such a here-and-now, in-the-present media. You know that if you don’t shoot that guy fast enough, he’s going to shoot you and you’re going to die. In the same way, your story should be about the present

Not all videogames exist in the here-and-now all the time. Maybe Call of Duty which is nothing more than 10 hours of moving from one set piece to the next, but in an MMO where you’re going to be spending a lot of time not playing the main story, you have time to stop, take a breath, and learn about the world you’re in. Whether that’s through a lore-dumping wall of text, or exploring old ruins doesn’t really matter to me, so long as it has context and reason for existing.

I thought Anet learned from their past mistake where they tried to tell a story without backstory or mythos (Scarlet, which did finally get backstory revealed after the fact), but, now I’m not so sure…

Ascended weapons can give you a 5% damage increase over Exotic weapons, even more if power is a primary stat. Its more than worth the cost. 5% is 5%, and it matters in WvW.

Ascended Armor’s increase in defense is less than negligible though because you need both Toughness and Armor added together (this makes the defense increase only 2.5%, maybe less). That’s completely worthless to even bother.

Ascended accessories are pretty easy to come by, and are worth it, even if the benefit is rather small.

Asgaeroth.6427:

Higher stats, more upgrade slots. Even if you don’t do fractals you can load the extra upgrade slots up with more power or more vitality. 5 per slot doesn’t seem like much but added up across all 14-16 slots it comes out to +70 to a stat. It’s very expensive to get this +70 but this is how Anet designed long term character progression for people who weren’t happy with the easy gearing.

That’s called a plateau, not progression. Progression is where you can get meaningfully stronger over time and is usually equal to the investment in time you put into the progression. Plateaus exist for players who don’t know better, and have no idea they’re being duped.

Read/post at home, and read at work/school.

I wish I could say I play, but I wouldn’t consider logging in every two weeks to play an hour or two of story because nothing else interests me anymore…..to really be playing the game.

I blame death animations. Instead of skritt dying, when their hp reaches zero, they could instead retreat and dive underground or something. Not everything needs to die when its hp reaches zero.

Izaya.2906:

Yes toughness increases armor additively but that’s not where it stops with regards to how toughness scales with damage reduction.

You can refer to this ancient thread during the early days with regards to toughness:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/60838-math-damage-reduction-toughness-and-vitality/

I will reiterate that facetanking mobs with 99% damage reduction isn’t intended, that’s why you get diminishing returns when it comes to damage reduction from toughness. It is working as intended.

I see no conflict here. Let me show you why :::

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (Toughness + Defense)

I’ll be using that damage formula. To make it easier for you to understand, weapon power and Defense are both equal to 1000 and the skill coefficient is 1.

If Power and Toughness were 1000 :::

1000 × 1000 × 1 / (1000 + 1000)
1,000,000 / 2000 = 500

If Power and Toughness were 2000 :::
2000 × 1000 × 1 / (2000 + 1000)
2,000,000 / 3000 = 667

If Power and Toughness were 3000 :::
3000 × 1000 × 1 / (3000 + 1000)
3,000,000 / 4000 = 750

In all three calculations, all values remained the same, except for Power and Toughness. Both of which were the same value in each calculation. Notice how damage went up. Its because Power multiplies with weapon strength (and skill coefficient) before the division takes place, while toughness only adds with armor defense. And this is before you throw in critical damage and vulnerability, both of which also multiply with the total damage to make the number even higher.

So, yeah, I’m still right. I never said that was a bad thing either, nor do I really want it to change to where all stats are equal, but my point still stands, and not one of you have been able to disprove it yet. Power is more valuable as a stat than any other stat in the game, and its foolish to invest in other stats if you want to be as effective as possible.

I though you had somewhere to go. Besides that, Damage takes Power and Toughness into account (as well as weapon power and armor defense), and nowhere was I talking about the total damage formula, just the individual parts.

Power multiplies with Weapon Strength (and skill coefficient modifier). Toughness adds with Armor defense to get an armor value.

Toughness and Power are still not equal when it comes to comparing the two. 1 point of power is ALWAYS more effective than 1 point of Toughness.

Genuine Question : What part of that do you not understand?

Izaya.2906:

Chrispy.5641:

Jana.6831

Edit: And I think when looking into whether or not healing power is underpowered one also should have a look at which rate the healing can be/is triggered.
Edit²: The same goes for toughness actually, if people would be able to double their toughness they would vastly prolonge the time someone would need to kill them, meaning that their skills would come off cooldown before their opponent has got any chance to do real damage – so basically you could go into PvP/Wvw and sit there all day while being afk.

1: Doubling your healing power does not double your effectiveness at healing. Doubling your Power does double your damage.

2: Doubling your Toughness does not double the amount of time it takes for someone to kill you (it increases that time by maybe 30%). Doubling your Power does decrease the time that it takes you to kill someone by half. Doubling your precision increases your crit chance by a larger percentage than Toughness does increasing your damage reduction. Doubling your Ferocity increases your critical damage by a larger percentage that Toughness does increasing your damage reduction.

My point still stands while yours is disproven. Power is BY FAR the most effective stat in the game (Followed by Precision and Ferocity), and it makes no sense to invest in other stat combinations.

This means that if I want to be at maximum effectiveness, I have to take Zerker gear.

I can go fight a war with just a pistol…doesn’t mean I’m going to go do it if there’s a better option available.

I don’t think it’s right to compare how offensive stats scale vs defensive stats.

The game was built with the purpose of getting rid of the trinity. There should be no need to wait for tanks and healers to complete content which is exactly how the game is right now.

As for the stats, Vitality scales almost the same way as power, except for the fact that every class starts out with a difference base HP/Vitality before anything is added.

Toughness cannot scale linearly because it isn’t intended to achieve too high of a damage reduction, if you make it scale to the point that you can face tank easily it’d be a very boring game don’t you think so?

As for healing, it’s the same thing, I certainly don’t want to play another game where I can just DPS and not mitigate damage because a “healer” can keep me at full hp except for one hit shots.

You can look at how good Selfless Daring is at healing(1.0 coefficient with healing) with a build for lots of vigor. How easy will the game be if you put 1.0 coefficient on healing symbols, regen, VoR, etc. too?

As for tying in defensive tools to vitality, toughness or healing, it’s just forcing people to run a minimum number of those stats to get to the point where they can survive again.

All that achieves is having people to swap out gear to perform exactly the same as they were in full berserkers previously except you’re just extending the play time to clear content needlessly. The encounters are the same, the mechanics are the same, you’re just forcing people to stay inside that dungeon for however longer the required toughness/healing/vitality affects their damage.

Sorry, but your wrong.

Toughness scales additively because Armor equals Toughness + Armor defense. 1 point of Toughness will always raise your armor by 1.

Vitality scales additively because one point of vitality always equals 10 hp.

Precision and Ferocity also scale additively because a certain number of points from either always increases critical chance/damage the same way.

Power scales multiplicatively, because your total attack power is Power x Weapon strength.

There’s the differences. The difference is that all the stats are additive for different values and only power actually multiplies with another stat (which is why doubling your power can double your damage, but doubling any other stat does not double what they do)

While I do have my fun running around PvE(sometimes WvW) in ‘useless’ Magi gear because I have it, I’m fooling myself if I don’t say that I’m more effective running around in Zerker gear with 3000+ power. Power builds, and specifically Berserker gear, is the most effective in the game. The math proves it. (and I never said that was a bad thing)

leman.7682:

Chrispy.5641:

Honestly the overall quality of story telling has been the exact same. Doesn’t mean its great or terrible story telling. I would say its average, which is actually not to bad for an MMO.

Edited for clarity. I meant story and writing quality.

I don’t know who in their right mind could compare the Season 1 story quality to anything in GW. It was that horrible.

(I will say the Bazaar of the Four winds update was terrible, and some of that writing had holes in it with some pretty arbitrary explanations) not all was terrible. Tower of Nightmares was S1, and it wasn’t too bad, and I think that was better than a lot of the quests in GW1 (especially every quest ever that was named after a pop culture reference. Those got old real fast)

Jana.6831:

Chrispy.5641:

Jana.6831:

Yes power is the most effective stat, 5 gear types have that as their base. But power has to fight against healing, skill cooldown, toughness – just read what I wrote again or try it in wvw/pvp to understand that 1:1 would be a desaster. I have to leave though.

Edit: Oh my, you people on the forums.

I WvW with full Zerker and 3100 power. I don’t care about your puny healing power or Toughness, or your dodging or invulnerabilities. You’re going to die against me, and having 3500 armor is only delaying your death by 30% longer than it would have been. That’s okay, You’ll die in 13 seconds instead of 10 seconds. Fine by me!

Yeah that was the point – if you would double the toughness, would you as a zerker still be able to kill the tough guy?
(still have to leave)

You should probably leave and debate me later then. Sounds kind of important.

The thing is, there’s no point in doubling your toughness to delay your death by 3 more seconds, if you can just double your power and kill me twice as fast.

Jana.6831:

Yes power is the most effective stat, 5 gear types have that as their base. But power has to fight against healing, skill cooldown, toughness – just read what I wrote again or try it in wvw/pvp to understand that 1:1 would be a desaster. I have to leave though.

Edit: Oh my, you people on the forums.

I WvW with full Zerker and 3100 power. I don’t care about your puny healing power or Toughness, or your dodging or invulnerabilities. You’re going to die against me, and having 3500 armor is only delaying your death by 30% longer than it would have been. That’s okay, You’ll die in 13 seconds instead of 10 seconds. Fine by me!

Jana.6831:

Chrispy.5641:

The game actually does force me to wear Zerker gear if you want to be as effective as possible. Like I said its in the math, and the math says that Power is the most effective stat in the game, followed closely behind by precision and ferocity. I know you didn’t read that far, but maybe you should.

Yeah, it’s the most effective way to play but you’re still not forced to do so. And as others have stated there’s always the most effective way in any game – don’t know why this is a huge problem for a lot of you who want the game to be changed. The last time that happened meant for me that my pvt gear in wvw wasn’t viable anymore so I had to go zerkers and I will never be able to play like I used to before the crit nerf. I’m pretty mad because of that actually. BUT on the plus side I learned a lot more about skills, cooldown, hits and survival.

I did read it but answered afterwards.

You’re still not listening, or paying attention, and you are still refusing to concede the fact that power is much more effective to invest in that any other stat.

leman.7682:

lordkrall.7241:

People always seems to remember the “good old Guild Wars 1 days” completely different than people actually talked about them back during those times.

Which doesn’t change the fact that the overall quality of storytelling has deteriorated significantly.

Honestly the overall quality of story telling has been the exact same. Doesn’t mean its great or terrible story telling. I would say its average, which is actually not to bad for an MMO.

Jana.6831

Edit: And I think when looking into whether or not healing power is underpowered one also should have a look at which rate the healing can be/is triggered.
Edit²: The same goes for toughness actually, if people would be able to double their toughness they would vastly prolonge the time someone would need to kill them, meaning that their skills would come off cooldown before their opponent has got any chance to do real damage – so basically you could go into PvP/Wvw and sit there all day while being afk.

1: Doubling your healing power does not double your effectiveness at healing. Doubling your Power does double your damage.

2: Doubling your Toughness does not double the amount of time it takes for someone to kill you (it increases that time by maybe 30%). Doubling your Power does decrease the time that it takes you to kill someone by half. Doubling your precision increases your crit chance by a larger percentage than Toughness does increasing your damage reduction. Doubling your Ferocity increases your critical damage by a larger percentage that Toughness does increasing your damage reduction.

My point still stands while yours is disproven. Power is BY FAR the most effective stat in the game (Followed by Precision and Ferocity), and it makes no sense to invest in other stat combinations.

This means that if I want to be at maximum effectiveness, I have to take Zerker gear.

I can go fight a war with just a pistol…doesn’t mean I’m going to go do it if there’s a better option available.