New, or free, accounts are limited.
Without SMS, accounts are limited.Coming up next, without a GW2 tattoo on right hand accounts will be limited.
Dumbledore looked at Snape’s arm.
“Your mark.” said Dumbledore looking down at the now glowing tattoo.
“I’m sorry, I have to go.” said Snape.
“I understand” said Dumbledore, “You have a raid.”
I also discovered Angry Joe via GW2. His review I think oversold the virtues of GW2 (the personal story’s branching quests he really bought the hype on), but he was entertaining, which is half the job of a reviewer anyway. In the end I 80% agreed with him on GW2 and 80% on ESO, which is a reasonable rate for a reviewer, and I’ll watch his videos if they come up as suggested on youtube.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
It is above market value from what I can see. Personally speaking, however, I will get my money’s worth out of it (given I have ploughed thousands of hours into this game so far). This should be the case for most long term players, and comparing our situation to those poor souls on sub. model games is probably enough for us to accept paying over market value.
Where ANet loses out is enticing back those people who jumped on at launch and then left because there was “no endgame”. This expansion should be a decent lure for them, but the headline figures of 4 new maps (and the number of maps is one of those things people always consider) and $50 is going to turn them off.
Okay, I paid $120 for my GW2 with HoT and they will pay $75 for their HoT if they want the LS. I still paid way more for the same product.
No. Not the same product. As I pointed out before there were a number of temporary additions that they will never get to play in its original form. Remember, Living story season 1 contained things like the tower of nightmares, Marionette fight, Scarlet attacks etc. on top of this are www seasons and some of the old seasonal events that didn’t get repeated.
So, again I point out, they get less.
First off it wasn’t $50. Secondly, yes there is the living story, which can be bought for chump change.
Firstly, season 1.
Secondly, if the cost of Season 2 is so small, why not add that to the cost and be up front about it?
I don’t care that they get a cut down version for free. I care that rather than being treated as a valued customer for supporting the game at the start, I pay another $50 on top of my original purchase to get the same thing that someone now gets for $50. In other words, as a valued customer that has supported this game for 3 years, and used the cash shop, I get to pay about $120 for what they get for about $50. And when the next expansion comes out I will have to pay $50 for that, and the HoT purchasers will have to pay another 50, and the new expansion people will get it all for $50. So I will end up paying about $170, HoT buyers will pay about $100, and the next expansion purchasers will pay $50.
In other words, I am valued because instead of getting what I bought for a fair price, I get to pay more to keep getting what new players will get for less.
A product is more valuable when it is new, so you got that value.
There are also 2 seasons of Living Story.
You also got to see the evolution of Lion’s Arch.
You also got an extra 3 years of playing this game.
I am sorry if this is not worth $50 to you, but it was to me.
guild wars just lost a long time customer for making this game free to play and placing restrictions on accounts, i have played this for 3 years your vets are getting the shaft in this free to play game
Not really getting shafted since there are a lot of restrictions. Just hope the 2 communities don’t collide in a superiority complex.
There’s already an Elysium (movie) like attitude voiced by some over the last few days that B2P kept the “trash” out and now that anyone is allowed the QoL will plummet. There is no reasoning with that group.
Bright side is if they all quit it can only raise our standing as nicest MMO community.
Considering f2p games are known for toxic communities, bots, and hackers; people voicing their concern over this game going f2p is warranted. Ignoring these peoples concern and writing them off because they have different views than you on these new changes only shows your ignorance. You need to remember that an opinion is neither right nor wrong.
Except that f2p users don’t get to use map chat and can’t move stuff to other accounts. These are legitimate concerns to be sure, but nobody has shown that the restrictions place by ANet on free accounts won’t deal with them.
Also, the complaints tend to centre around the argument that “I paid for this game, and the fact that people can get a cut down version of this game for free makes me feel angry!”
I have trouble reaching 64 characters on a forum post!
Brace yourself for the army of white knights that will storm in here not knowing what they’re talking about and sling the “E” word at you.
Edit:- Too late. =(
You know, if you are going to take offence at the word entitled you probably shouldn’t use “white knight” as an insult. It kind of makes you look hypocritical.
Convert them to greatswords and throw them in the Mystic Forge to try and get a precursor. It will be an exercise in disappointment, but at least you won’t have a problem with bank space.
I would be surprised if this were anywhere near the top of their to-do list, but I’d also like to see the changes you mentioned. I have some Norwegian folk that would be cool to have on in Hoelbrak (my musical tastes are eclectic, not cool). I also wonder about using services such as Spotify, which would allow for sharing playlists.
I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.
How long ago did you buy the game? And the gems don’t go poof. I’m pretty sure they can just refund you now without closing the account.
I’ve played since early October 2012. About the time they reinstituted digital sales. Oh no. If a refund were an option, no way in h**l am I giving up two-and-a-half years of in-game effort. It’s moot, anyhow. I’m wayyyyyy outside the 30 day window. I have no gems that haven’t been spent, and besides which, my last gem purchase was easily a couple of months ago.
Shrugs, yeah that’s too long a time to get a refund, but having played the game for 2.5 years I wouldn’t even think you’re entitled to one. The only people I think would be entitled are people who bought GW 2 after they FAQ for HoT went up.
Then you’re completely missing the point. I don’t give a greasy brown crap about a refund. I want economic parity. That’s all. I want to feel like I’m getting value for my hard-earned $50, which at this point I do not. Until I’m satisfied that I’m not being sacrificed as a veteran in favor of new players, I’m just not buying HoT. And I reserve the right to re-evaluate other aspects of my customer relationship with Anet in the future.
You don’t get to have economic parity with a game EVER. Period. Most games that are two years old sell for a fraction of what they sell for and some don’t sell at all, and are included in later versions of the game. There is no economic parity.
In my opinion, what you want is simply not reasonable, at least within the MMO genre.
You’re absolutely right. Anet is under no obligation to provide me with a sense of economic parity. And I am under no obligation to spend $50 to purchase their expansion. Especially not with the large amount of patching which will be taking place on the 23rd. I’m glad you and I see eye-to-eye on this. I just hope that the grumbling over at Reddit doesn’t portend bad things for Anet. I really do like GW2 and I really would like to keep on playing. I’m not going to if it stops being fun.
Well if your fun depends on economic parity it’s your own lookout. Don’t buy the game. I’ll be playing it and probably having a ball. Can’t wait to glide.
Say hi to all the new players who got the core game for nothing for me.
He will probably enjoy telling them about living world season 1. Not everyone has an acutely developed sense of envy though, so it won’t necessarily annoy them.
I would suggest something like working towards luminescent armour but unfortunately that requires a return to the Silverwastes. the level of challenge is not what I would call hardcore (my metric is that anything I can do is not hardcore) but it is not as simple as a lot of PvE. If you have the gold to convert to enough gems to but Ep. 5 of living story, assuming you don’t have it, then it might be worth trying out the first set of challenges.
Do Season 2 on a Sylvari character as the devs have stated that Sylvari characters will get a different experience in some ways.
Save up dungeon tokens as a compact way of storing level 80 exotic armour ready for your Revenant.
And then of course
If you’ve maxed out on slots, buy another one since one won’t be included for the Rev.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.
So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?
So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.
When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.
Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.
You are not paying for it again. They decided to give it away for free as part of a bundle that doesn’t apply to you if you wish to link it to your existing account. That is something to complain about, but don’t misrepresent it.
One of the big things that ANet will have to deal with is player perception of value. The one they should have foreseen is that they are taking a new approach to maps. 15 ordinary maps is about what people expect, but another Snowden Drifts would do nothing for. Nor, to be honest would another Southson Cove. Maps like Silverwaste on the other hand have long term potential. They should have really been aware that this would be a perception problem and not charged at a premium rate.
Then the whole thing got compounded with the core game not included for veteran players situation, but having been brought up with the idea that whining “he got more than me” is a mark of selfishness I can’t really get too much into that one.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.
So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?
So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.
The intention with Immobulus seems to have been to make something that only a small number of characters can possibly have, making it a true vanity item, albeit less flash than a legendary. I kind of like the idea that this sort of thing exists in the game, but I can understand the perspective of those who think that all weapons should be reasonably obtainable.
I am in 95% agreement with this one.
Really? Oh for crying out loud, what a stupid response. This is in the context of consumer law, not moral rights.
Did I mention moral rights? You keep putting words in my mouth. For someone that calls others stupid, you don’t seem capable of comprehending simple text.
You said consumer rights don’t apply to a product one hasn’t bought. Besides the fact that this is false, what I said was that since another product that I did buy is affected by the launch of HoT, my rights are still affected either way. My legal rights, as a consumer.
I said your response was stupid, not you. I don’t have enough information to tell if this is a consistent pattern of behaviour.
We all do stupid things now and then. I may be being stupid when I think that the right to respond is not codified in consumer law. It may be specifically protected (in consumer law that is, not something overarching like constitutional law), if so show me a citation and I will concede. Either way, it should have been clear that this was the assumption I was working from. As far as I know nobody’s right to respond has been infringed, so that is a bit of a red herring I think.
I already conceded the right to be disappointed, I took it as read that you have the right to complain, but I don’t believe that there is the legal right to anything else, except for those who bought when the FAQ stated that you would need the base game to play the expansion.
If you disagree with any of this let me know. I think maybe we fell into the trap of arguing to win rather than to get to a better understanding.
And did you see me arguing against your right to provide feedback?
Yeah
Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.
But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.
Really? Oh for crying out loud, what a stupid response. This is in the context of consumer law, not moral rights.
(edited by Cormac.3871)
Ummm, by giving you more features? Are you arguing that every time an MMO creates an expansion that you think is too high (and bare in mind that even though it is at the higher end of the market, it still in the range of what other expansions for MMOs cost) you are entitled to some sort of refund? If you do I give up, you obviously have no grip on reality.
Did you see me ask for a refund?
The core game is affected balance-wise by the introduction of new gameplay features locked behind a paywall, and a failed expansion pre-purchase launch and PR disaster will affect the community, the company’s image and ultimately, the longevity of the game.
So, yes, I have the right to provide consumer feedback, both for a product that I already own and is affected, as well as a new product Anet is trying to sell to me.
And did you see me arguing against your right to provide feedback? I was responding to a question with regard to legal rights, not subjective moral rights. Nice bit of backtracking though.
When I think of Archeage I remember people posting on this forum saying how games like it and Wildstar were going to destroy GW2 because the devs here are awful. Yes, the sales and marketing department messed up here, but in the grand scheme of things there are worse MMOs I could have devoted my time to.
The right of redress I agree with. I have even stated elsewhere that I believe that in some jurisdictions they might be in danger of getting fined.
But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.
You might have skimmed on my post the part about “the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products” which do come into effect BEFORE you buy the product for a reason.
So your argument is that prepurchase offers break consumer law until all details of a game have been released?
But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.
I have bought GW2 and HoT will directly affect that product and my experience.
Ummm, by giving you more features? Are you arguing that every time an MMO creates an expansion that you think is too high (and bare in mind that even though it is at the higher end of the market, it still in the range of what other expansions for MMOs cost) you are entitled to some sort of refund? If you do I give up, you obviously have no grip on reality.
Entitlement is very close to something we like to call “customer rights”.
You are entitled to get what you paid for. If you haven’t paid for it you aren’t entitled to it. If someone charges too much for something you are entitled to be disappointed, or to take you business elsewhere, but you are not entitled to make them lower it.
I am disappointed with the price. I have not decided if I will go elsewhere, although I will probably stop buying gems for a while if I do get the expansion. I also think that a lot of what has been written reeks of entitlement.
Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.
ANet fails rather kitten those three points here, well until they respond to our complaints :p
And there’s another one about the right of redress which concerns the recent buyers from the core game that would never have bought it if they knew the HoT preorder was around the corner and such a good deal for people that didn’t own the core game yet. And their right is to get a good redress regarding that complaint.
The right of redress I agree with. I have even stated elsewhere that I believe that in some jurisdictions they might be in danger of getting fined.
But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.
Here’s what the expansion is so far that we know:
1 PvP map.
New WvW maps that you’ll be playing on for months if not years.
1 PvE zone that we know of.
Guild Halls.
Some crafting.
QoL updates.
Mastery system.I’ll be done with the expansion, as it stands, in two months max.
I played Dragon Age 3 for about two months after paying full box price and didn’t feel ripped off.
If they announced only 1 map I would be glad I hadn’t pre-ordered before I heard how many maps they were making. I am expecting 3-5, with 5 being the point where I put my money down without feeling bad about it.
I was in a guild that went dormant for about a year, but I stayed in there because they were my main guild and I was hoping they would revive some day. They did make a bit of a revival but because I wasn’t repping at the time I wasn’t really aware until they demoted me. Part of it was bad communication on their part, but something like this new feature could have helped the situation.
If you are really efficient you can farm a key in half an hour. For seven tickets you need 70 scraps and the drop rate is about 1 in 4. That means 280 key farm runs over 140 hours.
To get the required gold in the same amount of time you would have to farm at a rate of 6 gold an hour, which is doable.
There is one other aspect to consider. If you key farm then before you hit the 100 hour mark you may end up hating the game.
(edited by Cormac.3871)
Entitlement is very close to something we like to call “customer rights”.
You are entitled to get what you paid for. If you haven’t paid for it you aren’t entitled to it. If someone charges too much for something you are entitled to be disappointed, or to take you business elsewhere, but you are not entitled to make them lower it.
I am disappointed with the price. I have not decided if I will go elsewhere, although I will probably stop buying gems for a while if I do get the expansion. I also think that a lot of what has been written reeks of entitlement.
The gem store is bad for perception, but is quite reasonable as a model. They self support with a group of people who design weapon and armour sets and the extra money goes not just into profits, but sustaining the game. However what a lot of players see is that they are spending all these resources on gem store items, not realising that it is the gemstore itself that is sustaining these resources. The Watchwork pick was probably the one time I felt uncomfortable about it.
New player leaving because of HoT. The irony.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
Veteran player who is disappointed about the pricing here. Give them some time. Sometimes they act, sometimes they don’t, but I wouldn’t expect to see a response in the first couple of days.
I remember a post a while back which started off with a complaint about how the Devs never listened. The title was something along the lines of “Name one time the developers actually listened to us”. Anyway, people started giving examples of changes that were made based on player feedback, and the list got so long that the OP changed the title out of embarrassment.
EDIT: no longer in broken English.
(edited by Cormac.3871)
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
Just for historical interest here is a thread about what people thought the price would be just after the announcement. Some people were predicting $20 and were told it was way too low, others were predicting 50-60 and seemed to have a similar number of people telling them that was too high.
Those of you who bought when they had the FAQS up stating that you would need the base game to play HoT do have a moral case. Possibly even a legal one. The number of jurisdictions that GW2 sells in means that it could be a legal nightmare for them if they don’t act soon. I am pretty sure that in Australia the ACCC could slap them with abig fine for that sort of thing.
Those like me who have had the game for years only have jealousy as an excuse to complain.
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Read your terms and conditions when you pre-purchase the game.
Obviously not, I thought that terms and conditions did not trump false or misleading advertising, but since you are obviously an expert in Australian consumer law I will defer to your wisdom.
I am pretty sure that in Australia the ACCC could slap them with abig fine for that sort of thing.
LOL the ACCC are powerless to do anything to anybody except write them a condemnation letter.
The ACCC is surprisingly powerful when it comes to handing out fines. I remember them fining Target for voicing an ad “20% off every stitch of clothing” but having in small text on the screen “socks and underwear excluded”. Googling finds dozens of examples, here is one I found at random: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/accc-fines-iinet-204000-over-broadband-fine-print-20150303-13tdq4.html
Hold tight, they may yet do something to fix this for people who bought since the expansion was announced.
If you can’t wait and you live in Australia contact the ACCC, you may well have a case given that you can say the game was purchased based on misleading information, even given that I don’t believe ANet did this knowingly. Other jurisdictions may vary.
Adding 800 gems would be enough to push me over the line. I just want the one character slot. I was expecting to pay $40 and get a character slot, so paying $50 for essentially the same is starting to be in the right vicinity.
Also, remember that HoT will give you access to Season 3.
Those of you who bought when they had the FAQS up stating that you would need the base game to play HoT do have a moral case. Possibly even a legal one. The number of jurisdictions that GW2 sells in means that it could be a legal nightmare for them if they don’t act soon. I am pretty sure that in Australia the ACCC could slap them with abig fine for that sort of thing.
Those like me who have had the game for years only have jealousy as an excuse to complain.
Jealousy is a curse. We have had two years of playing this game. Honestly it’s not the decision I would have made but if this really upsets you then you worry too much about other people’s good fortune.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
For the record, this is probably the 3rd game I have pre-purchased or pre-ordered like this. And I have played a lot of games.
The last game I pre-purchased was ESO. That worked out well.
More seriously, for me ANet has earned a certain amount of trust, unfortunately they have just nudged that price point past that level.
The gems bonus is how they would have to do it given that they have already sold copies. I can guarantee that people who mainly bought the more expensive versions for the character slot will be miffed.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
Gaile could you please comment on the change made to the FAQ literally within hours of the pre-order going live? It’s being seen by lots of players (especially in light of the several sales on core game accounts the last few months) as an unethical cash grab that borders on a bait-and-switch.
It looks to the veteran players like either somebody screwed up and tried to cover their tracks or else Arenanet is engaged in some incredibly dishonest business practices. You can understand why the player base isn’t very likely to trust any information or statements coming from Arenanet or their representatives, right? In either case the community at large is owed an apology
It looks like someone in the company changed their mind to me, no need for a big conspiracy theory. For most of us the whole “core game included” issue is irrelevant. I have got over two years of enjoyment from this game and the fact that this has been bundled in with a later deal I am fine with.
The people who do have a right to complain are those who have bought the game since that FAQ came out. They may even have a legal right to compensation.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
When GW2 came out I think I paid 50% more for the boxed version, because we pay more in Australia for some unknown reason. The kicker is that we don’t have any servers near us, and a European playing on NA servers has less latency. So it could be worse.
What I am expecting from HoT is not worth $50. If they came out and said 7 new maps, then I’d say “Awesome, take my money!” I am expecting 3-5, so I am a little reluctant to hand over my money. The problem for me is that by preordering I don’t have a reasonable idea of what I am paying for.
I tried ESO and it made me sad. I don’t want to bash the game because it has had some really awesome work done on it. Elements of it were fantastic. I played at launch and there were some teething issues I was more than happy to overlook, and I assume they fixed some of the minor annoyances like ambient conversations on high repeat near the crafting tables. So, there were some things I liked better than GW2 and some things I didn’t like as much. I might have stuck with the game but for two things. The first is no longer relevant, which is the sub fee, the bits that were better weren’t worth the price. The other was that it did not play well as a multi player game, with the exception of WvW. I love that hearts and dynamic events can be done with other players. In ESO you are sometimes hindered by other players, and half the time they are fighting enemies that you can’t see.
Look, give it a go, you might enjoy it more than I did, but be warned that the game hassle fundamental problems. TERA and Wildstar are worth looking at too, though both have their issues as well.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Cormac.3871
I was expecting $40 and assuming it would come with a character slot. If I was wrong about just one of those things it would still be an automatic buy. As it is I am Going to have to think about it, although I probably will get it.
I think part of the problem may be that we have got so very little in game over the past five months that this has hit us at the wrong psychological moment. I’m already down to just logging in for dailies, this latest buzz kill might stop even that. I’m more sad than angry.
not 3 weeks ago I farmed over 250 champ bags and got no exotics at all and just around 13 rares..
absolutely pathetic and only reinforces my opinion that Champ loot is a total waste of time and almost completely unrewarding
Those drops aren’t surprising. Exotics are about 1 in 300 champ bags. That means if you get 10 champ bags a day (which I got as a minimum back when I ran SE 1 & 3 daily) you will get an exotic every month. Of course if you increase the drop rate of exotics they become less desirable, and people complain that there are even fewer desirable items.