Guild Wars 2

suicidalspectre.8106:

They’ve been haphazardly pushed into a dps role in which I believe they have no place being.

That’s your belief. I completely disagree, having viable dps builds is essential for any class in this game. While I wouldn’t mind if the next elite spec brought the stuff you wish for (so I can completely ignore it and stick to DH), I think it has serious flaws. In WvW, it may become close to god-like, in PvP I’m already highly sceptical about its usability, and in PvE it will be utterly pointless. Face it, this game’s PvE is centered solely around damage and offensive support. Creating an elite spec that does not deliver anything for the (likely) most important game mode does not seem like a good idea.

That almost sounds like the glorious threads about 100B-numbers back in the old days. Apples and oranges …

Darknicrofia.2604:

In PvE I can very well see Axe/Torch being the highest DPS set with something like Zeal/Radiance/Purifier as the traitline

Oh no, please no dumb condition build becoming meta for PvE. I don’t mind that stuff for PvP, I don’t mind a truly supportive elite for anything, but please no condis for PvE.

Feanor.2358:

maddoctor.2738:

If the problem is that there will always be an optimal composition then how exactly are other games doing it?

By reducing or eliminating the unique features every profession has to offer.

Erm, not really. Wildstar class diversity in raids was fine while all classes brought unique buffs/debuffs. I know that WoW went the other route, but reducing/eliminating unique features is not necessary. However, it’s actually quite important that the buffs hit the entire raid, and that’s where GW2 fails. If a single warrior/mesmer/druid could provide the raid with their respective buffs, we’d still see at least one of each class per raid, but that seems reasonable with 9 classes and 10 spots. With a bit of proper balancing for the non-support dps builds, that would greatly enhance raid diversity.

Giving relevant buffs to multiple classes would also do the trick, but will probably require a lot more balancing.

Ragnarox.9601:

Nope I would rather see free sigil changes on legendary weapons.

I agree. Some system for free sigil changes (there have been various interesting suggestions in the past) and, later on legendary armor, rune changes would be great. A power boost, however, is a pretty horrible idea in a game with mostly horizontal gear progression.

Healix.5819:

An easy mode raid should be what everyone wants, except for those not wanting raids period.

Do you like raids? You should want to see an easy mode as it’ll greatly increase the participation and thus justify further development. There probably would have been a lot more dungeons today if they scaled for 1+.

See WoW. Raiding was originally less than 1% back in the hardcore days prior to WotLK. With LFR, raiding is now completed by the majority, where normal raiding is around 20% and hard mode progression raiding a fraction of that. The simple truth is, most people play for fun, solo and don’t want to waste their time. LFR is just that, where you simply queue up and win. If GW2 offered that, where you could earn the same rewards and just take 10x longer to earn them, it’d certainly be far more popular. To differentiate, actual raids could simply offer different cosmetics, like how SAB TM has colored weapons.

I’m sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense. Someone already pointed out that WoW is a raid-centric game, so you’re comparing apples and oranges. Furthermore, it’s more than doubtful whether LFR or similar bullkitten benefits the more serious raiding community. Judging from the WoW experience, where it just spoiled most of the community and left hardly any ambitious players moving up the ladder, I doubt it. I won’t even get started on the 1% …

zealex.9410:

what are these limitations of the gw2 combat u speak of?

The almost non-existent aggro system (sorry, that toughness thing isn’t a real one), the rather limited healing mechanics and the too strong emphasis on dodge come to mind. There’s probably more, but I’m too lazy to think about all the details.

They said that GW2 raids are by far easier and less complex. That’s what I would have expected anyway, as GW2’s combat system still has some rather severe limitations and its raids are 10 man compared to 20 in WS.

If you try the WS raids, keep in mind that the game’s power creep* has had a massive impact. Redmoon Terror is probably still super-hard for the average guild, but in Datascape and Genetic Archives, many mechanics can now be skipped due to massive dps. You’ll have to look thoroughly to glimpse all the aspects that made those fights so great during progression.

*I’m really happy that GW2 isn’t that bad due to the lack of gear progression.

maddoctor.2738:

Hint 1: there was build exclusion long before Raids. Rangers in particular should remember this VERY WELL and any Ranger who ever comes here and says they weren’t excluded from dungeons and fractals is a liar.

Oh, I don’t need a ranger to remember that. And tbh, rangers were excluded for good reason. 99% were just bad, the infamous bearbows who would just pewpew with their longbow and kick mobs away in order to annoy anyone who was meleeing.

No, always staying at entry level is probably not the best idea. I think I should finally try to dedicate some time to actually seeing the GW2 raids, although I can imagine the “difficulty” after all the stuff I’ve heard from guild mates who played both WS and GW2 raids.

zealex.9410:

No i dont agree. What u say might have some merrit but thats only if the learning curve gets out of hand pretty uch like with hot maps and coree tyria ones. I if theres a balanced and steady learning curve and challenge with each raid then ppl will just do it naturally.

I assume that GW2 hasn’t arrived there yet, but there is a point where the learning curve actually should flatten out instead of steadily going up. It’s debatable where that point should be located (and that’s a matter of personal preference), but you cannot make encounters ever harder without losing a ton of people.

Back when I played WoW, the end phase of BC was the first time I noticed this. More recently, Wildstar was another clear example. A pretty steady learning curve from the beginning of Genetic Archives via Datascape to the end of Redmoon Terror, but RMT just overdid it. I don’t think any encounter was hated by as many people who beat it as was Navigation Core, and that’s not because it was unfair or anything like that, but because a fun freetime thing had finally become more labour than hobby.

Blaeys.3102:

With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.

Rose-tinted glasses, anyone? Just like now, the vast majority of possible builds was absolutely useless in dungeons, when rated in objective terms. Yes, you could do stuff with a group of spirit weapon burn guards (Dub’s video was glorious, what was that build called?), but likewise you can now do raid stuff like Matthias with crazy builds if you actually want to. One hour kills have been done.

Essentially, nothing has changed at all since the old times of dungeons.

Offair.2563:

Join WoW to see how toxic tools like this can be.

WoW doesn’t need dps meters to show some of the worst behaviours. That’s an inherent property of the game itself.

Artasqweroldy.7458:

What are the main problems of underwater content in your opinion and how would you fix these?

Problems:
- lack of overview underwater
- lack of usable weapons
- utility skill restrictions
- horrible balance of anything that’s underwater

Solution: Exactly what they’ve already done. Abandon underwater content and never come back. The massive workload needed to fix underwater combat is better invested in terrestrial stuff.

I don’t get all the QQ about raids being evil. Haven’t ever set a foot into them, but it does not feel like I’m missing something important with regard to the rest of the story.

As to the original question: no, it doesn’t feel as if GW2 had lost its identity.

Ocosh.5843:

As any veteran MMO raider can tell you, when trying to overcome an encounter, the answer is always, always more dps. The faster the bad guy dies, the fewer times you will encounter mechanics, the more efficiently you will handle changes, the greater the room for error, the less strain on the defensive raid members — the easier everything is.

Nope. Usually, yes, but not always. Sometimes, too much damage interferes with timer-/percentage-based mechanics and creates “new” mechanics you really, really don’t want to play :P

That new site looks great at the first glance. Thanks, qT!

Guts.5019:

plz Anet make Wing 5 a WAY harder =)

They could copy the Navigation Core encounter from Wildstar. I’d be curious to see what dimension the sea of tears would reach if they ever did something similar. Galaxy-drowning?

AR “gating” (I’ve seen more severe gates) currently is probably the best of a lot of bad options to control access to high-level fractals. It_is_ a poor system and there’s nothing truly interesting about it, but some form of access control is necessary. There’s already too many people around in T4 who have absolutely no clue and for whom T1 would be the appropriate level, but I don’t want to imagine the toxicity resulting from an opening of the floodgates.

Ascended boxes do still drop, so I suppose nothing happened there. With regard to the cost of armor boxes from Bling, I’m fine with that. Before the change, they were easily at twice the price of crafted items. If it’s more or less even now, I’m fine with that.

Probably dagger/dagger thief, but I’d be surprised if anyone had bothered to test such irrelevant stuff.

Imo, Wildstar’s path system was, like almost anything outside of raids/instances and housing, a pretty severe failure. It was just uninspired, boring and added close to nothing to the game.

Yes, I’d probably be surprised if it’s that many at Bloomy. Unless you can be in four places at the same time. No, illusions don’t count towards that goal :P

OriOri.8724:

Say what now? I’m actually in favor of taking them both on at the same time. Makes the fight shorter, less time to make mistakes and go down.

Me too. I just don’t think most of the pugs will be able of doing that.

Vinceman.4572:

OriOri.8724:

You want pugs to actually think through fights and do stuff that makes sense? What is wrong with you? /s

Hope…till it’s over. xD

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment :P

I’m with Ori. If the majority of pugs can’t even do the fight without regularly going down to Bloomy alone, how are they supposed to do him and the oakheart at the same time? In melee, the oakheart can be nasty if you don’t pay attention in the wrong moment.

Ah, didn’t think of that. My bad.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Some important tips I’ve picked up:
-you can’t infuse accessories, weapons, or armor – only rings and backpacks

Not exactly. Accessories can be infused and there’s no reason not to do so. It’s just the amulet slot that can’t take an infusion.

Armor and weapons should probably be among the last items you infuse, because transfer to twinks is more difficult if you want to take those to fractals. Weapons have the additional disadvantage that only the currently active weapon set contributes to your AR. Kepp that in mind when you finish your gear – I’ve seen a few people wondering why they got oneshot by agony, just to discover that one of their weapons lacked infusions.

I don’t mind a longer fractals, as long as the fight is fun. Bloomy is fun. Jade Maw, in its current state, is just boring.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You have to realize that the only reason having a dedicated healer works at all is because it gives so many offensive boosts even with like 1k DPS itself. Taking that away doesn’t suddenly make other healers viable; the reason other healers are horrible is because they do 1k DPS and offer no meaningful damage boosts to the team. They are literally being carried at that point.

Question, since I’ve never set foot into a GW2 raid: Are healing requirements (for an average group) so low that offensive buffs are the only reason to exist for a (druid) healer? Because otherwise, your statement doesn’t make sense.

Walhalla.5473:

Forcing diversity could also make some boss fights awkward.

That’s just a minor issue. But what if no one wants to play a certain class, which will probably happen rather often when there are 10 people and 9 classes?

Henchmen are a horrible idea.

zoomborg.9462:

That’s forcing, not encouraging you kitten.

This. Encouraging would be fine, but that requires ANet getting their balancing halfway right. Forcing any kind of class composition is about the dumbest thing that’s possible.

Rednik.3809:

You know, in more civilized and serious raid MMOs people usually telling you if you are doing something wrong, not kicking you without saying a word.

Haha, that one was almost funny. Just like there are good people, there are jerks in any MMO. If you meet some, like the OP may have done – bad luck, move on.

Have to agree with the previous posts. I played a bit with GS yesterday, but compared to sword+x it still doesn’t feel right, even in open world.

Amineo.8951:

CptAurellian.9537:

Where did guardian get stronger?

They got greatsword buffs, Whirlwing Wrath has shorter CD and does 20% more damage, and the Symbol does 22% more damage, the other abilities have shorter CD aswell.

Also, blasting light fields cleanse conditions now which makes some encounters much easier.

Wasn’t aware of GS actually being used, but you are probably right about the light fields.

Where did guardian get stronger?

I’m not surprised. If I read the patch notes correctly, most mesmer quickness (apart from timewarp) is still capped to 5 and buffs like spotter are capped, too. After this baby step in the right direction, I just hope that they judge their tech to be capable of handling more 10-man buffs.

otto.5684:

For a skill with 20 sec CD having the cast from 0.25 secs to 0.75% is close to overall 5% damage nerf, considering that is an extra 0.5 secs of no damage.

Erm, maths? It’s 0.5/20*100 = 2.5%.

From a PvE perspective, I’m not unhappy about those changes. They could have done more, but there are some nice, small things like the change to light fields. Maybe there’s even a reason to get out my Twilight again.

Yeah, those loggers are great tools, if the quality of data is sufficient. No idea what GW2 technically permits, though.

Jubilant.7280:

CptAurellian.9537:

Making some buffs more available does not remove the distinction between classes. It’s quite amusing that none of the mechanics you mentioned is relevant to what doc is talking about.

alacrity is an mesmer exclusive buff that reduces cooldowns which is revolves around mesmer lore. Druids have grace of the land and glyphs that buff allies. This is relevant to his discussion. He’s asking for unique boons to be accessible to other professions, negating the lore behind it. If you negate the lore, then it becomes a hollowed out game and furthermore, if Anet does heed to his opinion, for example, giving Revenant alacrity spamming + facet of nature pulsing would entirely phase out mesmers. This would just result in a shift of meta and does not solve the problem and only destroys the game. To bring in further analogies, in many other games, such as TF2, you don’t want to have a scout who can carry a Gatling gun or an engineer who can backstab or cloak.

Spreading out buffs and making them more available does not negate lore, it’s on a purely mechanical level. No one wants to give “Grace of the Land” to classes other than druids. However, what about (random example) giving revs “Mists Surge”, which has the same effect and is mutually exclusive with GotL? Lore-neutral and it removes a buff bottleneck. The same can be done for other problematic buffs.

With regard to balance, you are certainly right. Such changes wouldn’t be possible in the near future, but require some extensive re-balancing. However, I think it would be a price well worth paying , at least with regard to instanced PvE. That would offer more freedom to groups and might even break some classes out of the niches they’re forced into.

Making some buffs more available does not remove the distinction between classes. It’s quite amusing that none of the mechanics you mentioned is relevant to what doc is talking about.

Mounts still are a horrible idea for this game, so please not.

Malchior.5732:

The problem isn’t DPS meters, it’s pugs.

This. Tools for analysis don’t hurt a game – on the contrary, they are valuable additions.

I agree with regard to open world zergs, DS being a prime example with all the bloody snipers hidden among the other trash. The question is just whether you want to have an additional gear set just for this, but that’s something for the individual to decide.

sakura.4179:

Jubilant.7280:

[…]
This is my rant and my thoughts on the division between Casuals and Hardcore raiders.

This post is disgusting, as is your attitude. Raiding and people like you , has ruined, and is continuing to ruin, Guild Wars 2.
[…]

Oh, the sweet irony contained in this combination of posts.

I offer the guardian elite signet: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Courage
Hilariously long passive interval for a paltry heal and a suicide button when you activate it.

Mourningcry.9428:

OP is confused between what a “bad” player is, and a “casual”.

Indeed. This discussion could have avoided a lot of pointless loops without that confusion.

zealex.9410:

it helps mesmers since downed skill 2 doesnt always save you

Guess I should bring my mesmer to fractals again to savour that feeling. No longer at the mercy of #2’s RNG, hadn’t even thought of that.

Jubilant.7280:

Let me define what I mean by Casual.

Casual is someone who has done all or most of other content other than Raids. They want to get into raids because it might be fun to tackle. They have some or no experience with raiding but they are willing to learn.

Raiders is someone who has experience with raids, understands the meta (augments it here and there aka, I’m going to go all Minstrel Chrono! when the meta from qt does Zerker or Commanders) and generally wants to improve the overall experience of raids. (wing 4 for example, was well done imo because some of the bosses, it was a mechanical fight instead of the boss like Gorseval where the DPS check is ridiculously high)

Am I missing a “not” with regard to casuals willing to learn? Because with this definition, I cannot see the big problems. On the contrary, that kind of casual would appear pretty reasonable and a good addition to the entire raiding community.

Lucky.9421:

I tested full Zerk vs full Marauder on an all-ascended, raid equipped phalanx warrior recently.

+5 Power infusions on both.

I found that Zerk did 7% more damage while Marauder had 33% more health, under realistic raid buffs.

Hope this helps anyone who is trying to make a decision.

33% more health even with a warrior? That would be 50% for a guard/ele/thief, which looks pretty huge for the relatively small damage loss.