Guild Wars 2

Zoid.2568:

Level 30 makes sense.
The first 30 levels you’re learning how to fight against mobs, mobs with different abillities, how to dodge, how to use your weapon skills and weapon switching, how conditions work, how boons work etc. Then there’s crafting, harvesting, collecting, events, meta events, personal story, jumping puzzles etc.

At level 30 dungeons become available.

Lol, you can learn most of that in the first 10 levels (which was why level 11 for your first trait was good). And in a dungeon, a current level 30 will have 29 traits. A new level 30 under this system would only have 1, being the equivalent, according to what I’ve read, of 5? Yeah, not feeling positive, but will wait and see.

DiogoSilva.7089:

CrossedHorse.4261:

I, personally, also dislike the idea of having to do specific things to unlock traits. I can see why this change is happening, but I don’t like it and would prefer the unlocking system to remain more similar to how the current system is.

It makes exploration more rewarding and exciting, and creates new opportunities for Anet to add new permanent content in the open world too.

What feels better for you, to get a new sword trait after fighting a swordsman in an epic fight, or to simply “unlock” it via a menu and then “explore” the world for more generic gold/ karma?

This new hunting system greatly enhances the value of exploration and world immersion, something that was lacking in this game.

Like I said, I can see what’s intended by it. But I can also see the other side where suddenly I have to go and do this specific event that I don’t want to do because I would like to try that trait (note, try, not even get because maybe I don’t know what it does properly yet).

I realise, that you can just buy the traits, and perhaps I’ll not mind so much if the traits aren’t hugely expensive to buy. Just erring on the side of caution though – I imagine they’ll be available for golds rather than silvers, which is not so fun. And, sadly, buying them, when previously I could just unlock them isn’t so appealing.

But, I shall wait and see. Mostly, I dislike the having to wait until level 30 to unlock any traits at all. And I would prefer to unlock a trait per level, rather than every 6. But, as with any change, we’ll get used to it.

I’m not too keen on the changes. And I don’t really like the sound of having to do specific things for specific traits. That doesn’t sound like being allowed to level any way I want to at all (I realise I can buy the traits, but this will mollify me once I know the cost and if it’s not like 20 gold). Also, the whole point of having access to several major traits at once is that it’s fun to experiment with my build and see which trait works in a matter of minutes. If I have to go and do some task each time I wan to change, then I don’t personally think that will do much except make me not want to bother.

But, all that said, I am willing to see what will happen and how things will pan out. Though I might make a few new characters I want to play before this is implemented, just in case, lol.

I’m happy that traits will be free and easy to reset, and I like that you no longer have to buy books to unlock each tier.

I don’t, however, like that I have to wait 6 levels between each trait point, or that I have to wait until level 30 to unlock traits at all (early levels will now, for me, be extremely boring).

I, personally, also dislike the idea of having to do specific things to unlock traits. I can see why this change is happening, but I don’t like it and would prefer the unlocking system to remain more similar to how the current system is.

Levetty.1279:

So will Abyss/Celestial go down in price since people need less, or will it go up because dyes will now stop dropping? I am always bad at predicting what will happen to tp prices.

Also a month with no content, especially with how PvP is in flux right now seems pretty stupid. Starting WvW season 2 with no balance changes is even more stupid.

I’d imagine they will go up because they won’t drop anymore and the only way to get dyes will be via the gem store or crafting, which obviously isn’t a guaranteed way of getting the dye you want. So they’ll be rarer, and people will want to be sure they get the dye they want.

I doubt we’d get to a point where every single player has an abyss dye and no longer wants/needs them.

On a similar topic to new zones … one of the new minis is a Tengu … Whitewing? As far as I know, this isn’t a named character in GW1 or GW2 … not saying we’ll get the Tengu race any time soon, but they could be taking on a larger role lorewise, which COULD then prompt theories that perhaps we might see them in the character creation pages …

Well, as to the Hitler debate going on …

Hitler actually took his look from Charlie Chaplin, another famous guy at the time, but not a villain.

So, depends on your perspective, lol.

(While this is a fact, I am not in any way suggesting one SHOULD style themselves after the fashion made particularly notorious by Hitler, even if another famous personage also sported that same fashion.)

I don’t deny anyone having it back. Bring it back. I’ve said already that I have no issue with it – it’s no skin off my teeth. I’m simply stating a reason why ANet may feel they have their hands tied on this issue. And yes, it is the slippery slope argument.

I personally don’t feel ANet did mess up. Just because X number of customers are unhappy doesn’t mean they’ve totally messed up. There are presumably just as many happy customers as unhappy ones. Saying I feel the need to deny others a chance to spend their currency is unfair, as I never once said that. I do think, however, that there has been a lot of unfair accusations laid at ANet’s door.

First, the “no warning” accusation. There was warning. Proved. Was it the best, most-all-encompassing warning in the world? No, but there was warning. And some people missed it, and that’s unfortunate. But really, they could have sent mail and you still might have missed it – some people are at capacity for their mailbox, someone else might only have logged in just before the event ended, someone else might just not really check their mail in-game as I frequently forget to do. So someone, somewhere, I guarantee you, would have missed the message.

Second, the fact that ANet removed the vendors at the end of the patch rather than leaving them in for a few days. Well, that was ANet’s decision to make. And, they gave due warning about this, so it’s the same point, really. Some people will be ok with that, and others won’t. The only people who aren’t are the people who missed the notice, so it’s the same point, really.

That’s all I’m getting at. People have a right to be annoyed that they missed out. They are directing that annoyance at ANet under incorrect and unfair accusations, however. And yes, I still maintain that even if bringing back these vendors would do nobody any harm, it has larger implications that I have spelled out time and time again, but that people refuse to see because they are not looking at the larger picture, but only at what affects them, personally, right now.

paynesgrey.8932:

A single post in a forum counts as fair warning? Really?

As for the slippery slope, “What if other demands conflict…”

Totally irrelevant to this case. Slapping a merchant or two back in for a week or two doesn’t take away anything from other players. It doesn’t diminish their playing experience, except maybe the odd fanboi who wants to see people who don’t pore over every announcement, update or post punished for “not taking their game playing seriously enough.”

If this somehow impacted the play of the folks who were able to sell their heirlooms and such before the InstaDeath Merchant Kill, you’d have a point. But it doesn’t, so there’s no reason for them to refrain from acknowledging and correcting the mistake, thus ending up with more happy customers, instead of less happy customers.

CrossedHorse.4261:

paynesgrey.8932:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Ponku.7925:

CrossedHorse.4261:

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

ANet shouldn’t bring back vendors because ppl are complaining, but because removing them as soon as event ended was a mistake on their side. And by that i dont think it qualifies for slippery slope you described.

No, it wouldn’t, if they left them there a few days after the event ended. But that isn’t actually what this thread is about. This is about bringing them back once they’ve gone because people missed the announcement. If they did this, yes, it would be the beginning of a slippery slope.

A slippery slope to correcting mistakes and providing good customer service? Might as well never patch or re-balance anything in response to players pointing out that it was screwed up.

It’s only a mistake in this case if they also made it a million other times for every other patch update. I think they seem pretty good at admitting a big mistake (like with the removal of the boxes in the Secret Lair). So we’ll see what they think – if they do nothing, clearly they don’t consider it a mistake.

And letting everyone just have access to everything the whole time isn’t necessarily good customer service. Giving in to every little demand from every single customer isn’t necessarily good customer service. What if some of those demands conflict with each other? What if giving in meant you ended up not having resources for some other aspect which meant that the game folded? That’s not good customer services. Bringing back the vendors this once won’t lead to that necessarily, but it WILL start off a landslide of people saying “hey, but I missed X item at X event and you didn’t bring it back” and they’ll have to. Then someone else will start up … so yes, it’s a slippery slope and that’s not good customer service.

Yes, it is irrelevant to the topic, but it’s relevant to the post I was replying to as an example of how “good customer service” isn’t always just giving anyone what they want the whole time just because they ask for it.

paynesgrey.8932:

As for “It’s not good policy” to satisfy customers, I call bunk. They have an opportunity to recognize and fix a mistake in a way which takes absolutely nothing from the other customers who happened to check that obscure post on an obscure page to find out the was going to be suddenly and unexpectedly ended for no good reason.

Honestly, your argument reminds me of those Sony fans back in the old EQ days who got upset whenever people complained on the forums. “Don’t give in to the complainers! People like corpse runs and level-losses!”

No one’s saying companies shouldn’t try to satisfy their customers. Of course they should. But this is a case where satisfying one lot actually only throws up yet more who decide they then feel dissatisfied and it goes on and on until you’ve unleashed a whole can of worms.

I am not at all upset that people are complaining on the forums. It is genuinely annoying to miss an announcement and then find you didn’t get to turn in stuff you worked hard for. But that happens the whole time in every day life and I don’t demand that each store treats me, personally, differently from the many others who also missed out on other events/promotions etc. Like I said before, I missed Kasmeer’s staff, twice, despite having waited and waited for the second sale (but I missed the day it came out – and there was no warning of that from ANet). But I don’t call bad customer service because I missed out on a sale.

What they can do, which would be right to do, is take note, and next time, implement things differently, perhaps sending out an in-game message or adding some dialogue to the merchants or leaving them a few days after the event or whatever. I really don’t mind. I don’t MIND if they bring these merchants back – except I know it will give rise to other people bringing up different occasions where they felt cheated out of something, and it will get out of all control.

ProtoGunner.4953:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Lol, I love it when people say things like “I work for one day and that gives me X gold”. It’s almost like nobody has anything else to spend money on. I work for one day and I don’t see any of that cash because it goes towards paying bills or the mortgage or food etc. Yes, yes, one day here or there is the equivalent of a fortune in game … not really. 1000g will buy you either a lot of stuff or not even half a legendary. It’s a little off.

True, but if I deduct all invoices etc. there’s still more than a half of it left.

That’s nice. Sigh. I wish that were the case for me. I needs a better job!

Rouven.7409:

I can imagine something as simple as this:

Good news everyone! Dyes will be account wide unlocks now. Every dye you already have on any single character will be available to all your characters now. In order to open an unidentified dye in the future you will need an identifier which you can conveniently find in the gem store.

Flash sale for 24h only – unlimited identifier! For only 3s per use this identifier will never run out of charges!

Crafted dyes – let’s imagine those would not need an identifier to open … could balance things out a little?

This would be cool, though it seemed to me like they were making dyes themselves only available via gem store, not also adding identifiers (that seemed to be how it was happening in China). I would prefer not to have to worry about identifiers.

paynesgrey.8932:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Ponku.7925:

CrossedHorse.4261:

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

ANet shouldn’t bring back vendors because ppl are complaining, but because removing them as soon as event ended was a mistake on their side. And by that i dont think it qualifies for slippery slope you described.

No, it wouldn’t, if they left them there a few days after the event ended. But that isn’t actually what this thread is about. This is about bringing them back once they’ve gone because people missed the announcement. If they did this, yes, it would be the beginning of a slippery slope.

A slippery slope to correcting mistakes and providing good customer service? Might as well never patch or re-balance anything in response to players pointing out that it was screwed up.

It’s only a mistake in this case if they also made it a million other times for every other patch update. I think they seem pretty good at admitting a big mistake (like with the removal of the boxes in the Secret Lair). So we’ll see what they think – if they do nothing, clearly they don’t consider it a mistake.

And letting everyone just have access to everything the whole time isn’t necessarily good customer service. Giving in to every little demand from every single customer isn’t necessarily good customer service. What if some of those demands conflict with each other? What if giving in meant you ended up not having resources for some other aspect which meant that the game folded? That’s not good customer services. Bringing back the vendors this once won’t lead to that necessarily, but it WILL start off a landslide of people saying “hey, but I missed X item at X event and you didn’t bring it back” and they’ll have to. Then someone else will start up … so yes, it’s a slippery slope and that’s not good customer service.

I spend a lot of time playing alone, but I am also part of two guilds who I do things with as well.

Generally, I am not bored of the game. However, whenever I do notice myself getting bored, I am always solo at that point.

Ponku.7925:

CrossedHorse.4261:

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

ANet shouldn’t bring back vendors because ppl are complaining, but because removing them as soon as event ended was a mistake on their side. And by that i dont think it qualifies for slippery slope you described.

No, it wouldn’t, if they left them there a few days after the event ended. But that isn’t actually what this thread is about. This is about bringing them back once they’ve gone because people missed the announcement. If they did this, yes, it would be the beginning of a slippery slope.

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

Oh, I see what you mean, you want to grade the amount you evade backwards by according to how long you “charge” the skill. Yeah, that could work. I have often misjudged an evade and fallen over ledges etc because of it. But generally, I just count that my fault because I didn’t play the game well enough to take account of the surroundings and use the correct positioning. By the time I feel a dodge is necessary, I don’t really have time to be thinking how long I need to hold the button for – I just need a dodge, lol.

TheDaiBish.9735:

I think the main issue with the removal of the Trinity isn’t the fact that it wasn’t replaced with anything (it was; the system we have now), but the fact that the content itself is designed in such a way that it doesn’t utilise the depth that the system implemented offers, whether that be through content design or flawed mechanics.

This isn’t saying that the system is perfect; certain parts (such as Defiant and the combo system) need working on, or even complete reworking. However, the system could work very well, as long as the encounters were designed to use parts of the system other than dodge and damage.

Another thing; you don’t need a Trinity-esque system of pre-defined, static and all encompassing roles (that is, roles that never change depending on the content) in order to have roles (which seems to be the main issue people have). Roles aren’t limited to the concepts of tanking, control, damage, healing, supporting ect. The term role in itself means your purpose within the group.

Look at the Effigy in CoF. If the fight worked as it was supposed to all of the time (needing to destroy the crystals, as opposed to brute-forcing them), then there’s an example of a role built into the fight, and unique to that fight.

As for controlling Aggro in the way of the Trinity; IMO, it’s one of the mechanics that limits AI.

^^^This, exactly this. Except way better expressed than I managed!

Yeah, dyes do also change a bit according to what material they’re on. So if you use a metallic dye on a leather-based piece of armor, then it’s going to look different (sort of like irl). That sometimes shows up as obvious in the preview, but not always, for me. And in general, I do think the lighting does have an effect.

Lol, I love it when people say things like “I work for one day and that gives me X gold”. It’s almost like nobody has anything else to spend money on. I work for one day and I don’t see any of that cash because it goes towards paying bills or the mortgage or food etc. Yes, yes, one day here or there is the equivalent of a fortune in game … not really. 1000g will buy you either a lot of stuff or not even half a legendary. It’s a little off.

But that said, no, I don’t have a general issue with things being priced the way they are in the gem store. Things I consider ridiculous, I don’t buy. Things I consider expensive but buy anyway – well, that’s on me and not being careful with my money, not ANet being greedy. (and seriously, once cash is turned to gems it feels like it’s not real money anymore, so I end up spending stupid amounts by “accident” but only have myself to blame).

I like talking to people and discussing various ideas. It’s also a place where you can learn and find out information about the game we all have in common etc.

All that these evade backwards skills really require is for the player to be aware of surroundings and their positioning, which goes hand in hand with the action-based combat of this game. I’m not sure what having it as some sort of channeled skill would bring to it, except you wasting time deciding whether or not to use it, using it, and still it won’t make a difference if you need to evade but are in the wrong position. Either you’ll evade and still have trouble, or you won’t and you’ll not dodge the hit, so there’s no perceivable benefit.

Again, confusing efficiency with utility. Other builds than highly offensive ones are perfectly viable, but less efficient. Not everyone plays for efficiency, therefore this isn’t an issue for them. For those who do play for efficiency, then yes, I can see the argument for lack of diversity, but I don’t think this is necessarily to do with the lack of trinity, more with enemy design/mechanics.

HA! Finally, if this change goes through I’ll be able to clear 2 bank expansion slots by using all my dyes and not agonising over which character should get which! Very, very happy with this idea.

IrisTheCasual.3742:

CrossedHorse.4261:

hendo.1940:

But some people should realise that some people may only have one char at 80 – maybe that char is a Necromancer. Should that stop them from being able to run dungeons because “they have no role”? No. They can have a role – the game is flexible enough that it allows them to contribute to a group. People also need to realise that changing builds isn’t always as straightforward as 1, 2, 3. Some people don’t have the gold, others don’t know how to play a particular build. Put someone who usually runs a tanky Guard in zerkers and maybe they won’t do so well so will contribute less over that run than they could in their tanky gear.

Literally the only role a necromancer can have in a dungeon is DPS, and they’re outclassed by guardians, thieves, elementalists, warriors, rangers and theoretically, mesmers since a necromancer has no unique group utility, and anything it can do, other classes can do the same plus more.

Well, that’s still a role. The argument isn’t really about whether or not particular professions are better than others, it’s about roles professions can play. Necros can play a DPS role. So there we are, Necros have a role that can be filled.

Please note, I’m not arguing that a Warrior, Guardian, Thief, Ele, etc aren’t better at DPS – just that Necros can contribute in some way. Imo, they’re not bad at some support (again, not as good as XXX class etc) in terms of DPS support – they have a good blind and they can convert conditions to boons on their allies, they have a skill to res downed players and can clear trash mobs really well (if that group is looking to do so) with their aoe damage. So they have things to do, which is the point, not whether anyone else can do it better.

Minion masters are awesome. They can play very well in dungeons. Hendo’s point is they are not suitable in the competitive speedruns, because other classes do their jobs better. But don’t let others fun ruin your fun. Minion master are awesome, after all.

Yes, MM builds are cool too. I know that they aren’t much good for competitive speedruns, but if Hendo had read any of my previous posts he/she would realise that I acknowledged that. This thread isn’t about those kind of runs in particular, it’s about the roles we can or can’t play now that we have not got the “holy trinity”.

It would be nice to see people all talking about what classes CAN do, and what players CAN do with what they’re running, than an endless list of what people CAN’T do and why if they don’t go X build with X profession they’re either stupid or bad. I feel if peopel are told what they can do and how they can be useful, they’re more inclined to listen and learn and enjoy themselves than if they’re just constantly told they’re doing something wrong. That just devolves into an “elitist/casual” argument, where people exaggerate and insult each other and nothing gets achieved.

Kozai.8269:

CrossedHorse.4261:

The good thing is, that ANet did let us know what was going on, even if not everyone got the message. It wasn’t quite the confusing message fiasco that happened with the cyphers for the boxes in Scarlett’s Secret Lair. So they’re getting better.

I thought I saw something that the cyphers would be usable in the future?

Lol, well I guess that would prove my point that people miss things! That will be nice for people who still have theirs, though I’m not sure how many people that will be post-fiasco.

I don’t recall playing most of those tapping 1 button only or watching TV. With all of those you can contribute as much or as little as you want, it seems. SOME people just stick with a zerg and spam one skill and if they find that fun then props to them. OTHER people play using all their skills etc. and props to them. Just because you CAN play it one way doesn’t mean you have to. The game is the way you make it, so calling it trash content is generalising at best.

CJH.2879:

Thnx CrossedHorse & its true, not all of us read every announcement or visit the forums everyday, so obviously sometimes things will get missed. I’m sure there will be many other players looking for the same answer that I asked, so at least in that way they’ll be informed of this (with this topic). Thnx for the replies all. =D

X

There will always be people who miss out on things. Sad, but true.

The good thing is, that ANet did let us know what was going on, even if not everyone got the message. It wasn’t quite the confusing message fiasco that happened with the cyphers for the boxes in Scarlett’s Secret Lair. So they’re getting better.

hendo.1940:

But some people should realise that some people may only have one char at 80 – maybe that char is a Necromancer. Should that stop them from being able to run dungeons because “they have no role”? No. They can have a role – the game is flexible enough that it allows them to contribute to a group. People also need to realise that changing builds isn’t always as straightforward as 1, 2, 3. Some people don’t have the gold, others don’t know how to play a particular build. Put someone who usually runs a tanky Guard in zerkers and maybe they won’t do so well so will contribute less over that run than they could in their tanky gear.

Literally the only role a necromancer can have in a dungeon is DPS, and they’re outclassed by guardians, thieves, elementalists, warriors, rangers and theoretically, mesmers since a necromancer has no unique group utility, and anything it can do, other classes can do the same plus more.

Well, that’s still a role. The argument isn’t really about whether or not particular professions are better than others, it’s about roles professions can play. Necros can play a DPS role. So there we are, Necros have a role that can be filled.

Please note, I’m not arguing that a Warrior, Guardian, Thief, Ele, etc aren’t better at DPS – just that Necros can contribute in some way. Imo, they’re not bad at some support (again, not as good as XXX class etc) in terms of DPS support – they have a good blind and they can convert conditions to boons on their allies, they have a skill to res downed players and can clear trash mobs really well (if that group is looking to do so) with their aoe damage. So they have things to do, which is the point, not whether anyone else can do it better.

Of course there are other players in the same boat, and I’m sorry that you didn’t receive the notice. People are just pointing out (some more pointedly than others) that the notice was put up for us in the best way ANet have of alerting us to various things going on in the game – their game forum. So while it is a shame that you didn’t get the notice, they did put it up.

Celtic Lady.3729:

The gem store is like anything else in this world – if you make 7-digit salaries, everything is affordable.

… except happiness, apparently. Lol, I reckon I could be plenty happy with a 7-digit salary.

ANet posted last week that they’d be removed from the game and you wouldn’t be able to exchange belongings or heirlooms after this patch. Sorry.

Because some people still want to have those hairstyles (clearly) so why not ask them to pay for them still? If they just made them free eventually, nobody would buy the makeover kits for the latest ones because they know they could get them free later. So it would defeat the point.

I’d rather the boosted the rank in WvW required to 50 and dropped the map exploration requirements in WvW. That would mean that you had to play WvW (or buy from the vendor, I suppose if you must) properly, rather than wasting time simply waiting for your server to hold the points you need. It might also help with the complaints from WvWers that PvErs have no place in their game. Sure, they’d come for the ranks, but by rank 50 you’re at least contributing, rather than simply gathering WPs, POIs and vistas. And it might encourage more people to stay and get good at WvW. I never did it and started out collecting WPs and found that really boring. But when EOTM came out and I went back in and just played, I found I really enjoyed it. To me, it would be a better way of encouraging players into WvW and producing strong WvWers in the process.

I don’t really enjoy PvP, so I’m not too keen on the idea of a rank requirement here, particularly since you can’t actually use a legendary in PvP anyway, so I feel the modes here are totally separate. But I wouldn’t object to having to get rank 10 for a legendary either. Seems fair enough.

Because it’s another way for ANet to make some money from the gemstore. That’s really the only reason.

It would be nice to have access to these hairstyles (and the new faces introduced a few months ago) at character creation, but I doubt that’s going to happen.

The thing I would most like to see more of in terms of dungeons and groups, is experienced people taking a look at what I’m running, and rather than saying “nope, you have to get different gear” or something similar, they’d say “ok, so you’re running this … so to get the best out of that set up you might want to think about using X skill and X utility … do you have a sceptre? That might come in handy …”

Not that I am refusing to change my gear or my set up on any character, because I am. I like to learn and I love to get good, helpful advice from the people who really know this game and how to play it.

But some people should realise that some people may only have one char at 80 – maybe that char is a Necromancer. Should that stop them from being able to run dungeons because “they have no role”? No. They can have a role – the game is flexible enough that it allows them to contribute to a group. People also need to realise that changing builds isn’t always as straightforward as 1, 2, 3. Some people don’t have the gold, others don’t know how to play a particular build. Put someone who usually runs a tanky Guard in zerkers and maybe they won’t do so well so will contribute less over that run than they could in their tanky gear.

So experienced players could help here, tell them what they CAN do to have a role and fulfil it effectively. As people become more confident with the game, they’ll start experimenting for sure – I know I did. But it took the kindness and patience of others to help me get there.

Now, of course, if you are looking to run a dungeon a specific way, I have no objections to you saying that and getting a group that will fix that. This post is directed and anyone who isn’t looking necessarily to do that, but still insists that nobody other than X, Y or Z profession or build can have a role in their group. It simply isn’t true. You don’t need the trinity and you don’t need just DPS.

There are other activities you have to do that take far greater time and commitment than this one. I am really not one for WvW, but I decided to have a look-se when EOTM came out, and it took less than a day to reach level 14. The first 10 go by so quickly, and the remaining 4 took maybe just under an hour (of not a lot of action) each? In the grand scheme of things, I think they made it easier, rather than harder for newer players to get one step closer to their legendary, if they want one.

Just so thrilled that the Taimi hairstyle is available for Asuras! Love the Sylvari hairstyles too, particularly the branch ones.

Just don’t know if I can bear to create more characters to level (I like the ones I have the way they are) … levelling has become a tad boring for me of late.

Norn female hairstyles are amazing, and love the side-swept short human female one. Male human hairstyles aren’t bad, but my goodness, the male norn ones are a little odd, imo!

I think these look absolutely fantastic! Might be heading into WvW after all …

Dagnaggit.5086:

Someone said earlier, and I will not quote it, that they like not having the trinity. They feel it gives their character more “options”. Please tell me you play GW2 PvE…..its “Go Zerk or go home” period. No options. And then in all but 1 game mode(the balanced one) only 3 classes have “true” viability. Sure, for WvW and PvE, the class make up is SLIGHTLY different. Mainly one leans to Ele and the other leans towards Mes. There is no true options in this game and now it is a total grind fest with Ascended. Sorry, but the crafting system in this game is the absolute worst I have seen in any game. So, your forced to grind that bore just to get Ascended…….this game is dying. Trinity could have stalled it, because then you would have really had options…a reason to use 80% of the gear that drops.

There are tons of options. it just depends how you want to play. If you want to be the most efficient, fastest and generally speedy player possible, then yes, zerker is often the way to go. Not always the best, as if you’re not good in zerker you’ll spend more time being dead. But it’s certainly not a “go zerker or go home” game. You can do all the game specced out as a healing build if you want and you will take longer, sure, but you will be just fine.

People shouting at others to “go zerker or go home” foster this mentality of there being no options, but it’s simply not true. These same people will tell you get get out of their group even if you’re running zerker but are still learning how to play as one and so get downed a few times because you’re “bad”. So they shouldn’t stop people from playing different builds.

Don’t confuse being efficient with being viable. That’s only the case in a speedclear dungeon run – but then, if you don’t want to do that quickly, you’re sort of in the wrong group anyway.

Dean Calaway.9718:

This is all kinds of wrong, you are responsible for your survivability, even as a thief, if you keep dying get off the full zerker gear.

I find this sort of thing confusing. Not the statement itself. I fully support that if you can’t play zerker, or find that you are dying more than you feel you should in zerker gear, then find something that gives you more toughness, you’ll be more help to the team.

However, the same people who tell me that there’s literally no point playing anything other than zerker and the same people who don’t allow others to learn to play on zerker. It’s quite literally “play zerker or get out. But you’re bad at zerker. So you’re bad. Get out.”

That is just terrible advice and I think promotes this feeling where people think they have no role to play. Now, in a speedrun dungeon group, efficiency is obviously key, so I understand gear/build checks etc. I have no issues with that. but in a regular dungeon run, where efficiency isn’t necessarily the goal, there are numerous roles within DPS, control, tank, support or a mixture of some of these to play – you just need to find the group to run with. In my guild, I have run a couple of dungeons as a Necromancer. Is there a defined role, not strictly, but I chucked blinds around like a pro, lol, and I also brought skills to convert conditions on my allies to boons, which is really useful. So, no, there’s no DEFINED role, but you have a part to play and it’s good to realise that.

But if on the one hand I’m being told I’m no use if I’m not in zerker, but then if I switch to zerker and get downed once I get told I’m just a casual bad …

Dalanor.5387:

Honestly often casuals came up with the excuse that they want to play the game, want to have fun whatever and have limited time. You know what? If you (casuals) actually care about yourself, since you don’t give a skritt about others it seems, think about that if, i mean IF you force yourself to actually learn the content and not afk auto attacking in WvW carebear PVT gear without any dodge, you may finish the instance in less than 2 hour. Maybe. I’m speaking in general, not against you Lilith or Warkupo.
The pug perception is bad. Really really bad. And 1 year behind the meta, but thats another story.

I never really understood this attitude. I consider myself casual, but I also like to learn and I like to improve at whatever game I’m playing. It’s absolutely no fun to stay at beginner level for months and months, and it’s certainly no fun in group content to feel I am not contributing at all. I strongly suspect that several other gamers who consider themselves casual also hold this viewpoint.

I also think it’s wrong to lay the whole “only thinking about yourselves” accusation solely at the casuals player’s door. There are just as many posts from non-casuals telling casuals to play their way or get out. So I would disagree with you on this point.

But yes, I agree that it’s a mystery why constantly wiping in a dungeon is fun for anyone.

I think they’re ok in general. There’s some stuff in there I’d never pay as much as they’re asking for, so I don’t, and there’s other stuff which is totally fine. From a non-context based scenario, the prices are a little high, but in the context of the game, the fact they are available to you via farming etc, I don’t mind them. There’s nothing in the store I feel I absolutely must have or give up playing altogether, so I don’t mind them making some profit off it.

With regards to the people saying 800gems is too much for the armor. It is a high price, but I don’t think it’s extortionate compared to other games. Also, yes, individual pieces, if bought separately when combined should cost more than buying the whole set as one. That’s how all merchants put value on their items by making you think you are getting a deal to buy the full set. That’s the point of that marketing, and it’s perfectly legitimate. Do I think 500gems for a headpiece is expensive, yes, I do. But that doesn’t mean I think each individual piece of armor should only cost the relative fraction of the price of a whole set (ie, 1/6th of the price).

Edit: Having said all that, I wouldn’t complain if they made skins unlockable across the whole account! then the price would seem almost cheap.

The way I see it is this – GW2 was designed so that people were largely self-reliant. This was in part catering to the idea that ANet wanted to get rid of the trinity, but also generally because they were aiming at creating a game where it was possible to solo (without henchmen or heroes). So this meant that they couldn’t restrict people to one role because what is a healer going to do out there on their own for the whole game, for instance?

So now we have a tension because everyone is self-sufficient and builds accordingly. This is great – I have complete freedom to build the way I want to and roam around PvE doing whatever I want to and knowing that I can probably deal with anything that’s going to come looking for a fight. The tension comes in when you are suddenly expected to play as a member of a group in dungeons, fractals etc. This is where that very nice build starts not working quite so well.

This isn’t because the various builds DON’T work with each other (in fact, as several people have pointed out already, they DO synergise very well), it’s just that people are used to playing by themselves and relying on themselves. So they don’t re-spec for parties (not that surprising since it’s not THAT easy to re-build your char in this game). So their builds don’t mesh that well and actually people take the easier route by falling into particular group compositions and particular (DPS) playstyles that work better together even when chars are not built for that specific group, than others.

There is also a problem with people confusing playing the game efficiently and playing the game well. There is indeed a difference. Playing efficiently assumes least time taken for most reward possible. In this game, that is DPS-oriented. It’s not that you CAN’T play any other way, it’s not that you CAN’T run clerics or support or cc (though cc is a little broken, I think). It’s just that people don’t want to bother and so go for DPS. And, as above, because it’s easier and faster to learn to get big numbers with survivability with a Warrior than learning how to do it on another class. So that’s how that comes about, and it scales from there.

I don’t know if this is an inherent design flaw or mechanics flaw (I am never sure which comes under what in these kind of conversations), or just a natural player reaction to various things.

Surprisingly good post. I admit I started reading this thread with some cynicism, but I would not be upset to see any or even all of these changes made to the game – and I already like it enough as it is!

I would also like to say that I really like Lalengamena’s condition suggestions. I like that only Necro has access to conditions at first and that other builds must trait/specialise for it. That could let ANet lift this odd cap they have on them and the overwriting issue, as there would be far less people using them anyway, but they’d be far more effective. I love conditions and nearly all my chars end up running condition builds no matter what class they are, but I wouldn’t mind having to trait specifically for that if they were actually going to have a noticeable effect (which they currently don’t have).

Lol, I’d take it even further back than Scarlet attacking LA, and simply asking why no one even noticed her people putting all those drills up all over the place. Like, how would you not notice that and investigate? I guess we have to put it down to “poetic license”.

Don’t need any special skills or abilities if you can time it right.

Don’t need to run really fast to get to her, make sure you avoid being hit by her smaller aoe’s (might need to dodge once for this). Run AT THE WALL right next to her, the little half-wall thing that she’s in the middle of.

Stay right at the outer edge of your stomp radius. Begin stomp, cancel immediately by dodging into the wall when her massive aoe comes up. If you dodge into the wall you automatically avoid the invisible wall knockback, and you won’t move any further from her, so no need to move back into stomp range. Hit stomp again the moment you finish dodging.

Yes, the Marionette event did spark some rage, didn’kitten

The succeed or fail as a team philosophy is a great one. I am very pleased to think that, despite the odd one or two, most of the commanders I’ve run events with in AG are followers of that way of thinking.

I also agree with your original point there there could be so much more that commanders could do. I, for instance, have never worked out what on earth joining a squad does. I click on the commander, click “join squad” and literally nothing happens. I thought it would be like joining a larger party, where you could get squad-specific instructions, even across the map, and where the commander might be able to see his group etc, etc. But there was nothing, where this could have been a fantastic tool. In WvW it would make things so much more fun and dynamic, and may well encourage more commanders to split the zerg and create smaller squads (aside from the 5-man havoc squads you see around) of maybe 15-20 people for raids, harrying the enemy, flanking etc. Of course, that can happen now, but this would make it easier.

More on topic, a lot of people fail to realise that just because they play every day does not mean others do. I quite often don’t play during the week, and might join a LS event for the first time over a week in. People will ask why I don’t know what is going on, when the event has been running for X days, and never seem to believe you when you say it’s because you haven’t played yet. Why wouldn’t they believe that? Also, newer players are joining all the time etc. There will never be a state where absolutely everyone and his mother knows what is going on at any time.

Similarly, pointing out and giving links to guides is good and useful. I learn a lot from watching videos on Youtube and looking up information. But, and it is a good but, knowing everything that happens, what to expect and what to do, is very different from actually doing it, and people fail to realise that. Just telling someone to look at a guide may be a useful starting point, but it can’t stop there. The Marionette event, for instance, before I turned up the second time I could tell you everything about how to succeed at that event, but it didn’t mean I knew how to execute it perfectly because I hadn’t experienced it. And yes, things went wrong – ppl got knock back into bombs which downed them instantly etc, etc. So just knowing doesn’t always help. you have to try and you have to fail to really learn. And for some, that takes longer than others, and that really is not something that is their fault.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think another thing that Anet could do to help teach players skills, is by expanding the range of options for commanders in PVE. It’s a bit of an underrated role for commanders, but at least on my server, the Marionette event saw many commanders rise to the task of teaching players how to do the fight.

Commanders have the opportunity to act as mentors for inexperienced players, without explicitly being mentors. By instructing players during these massive events, the less experienced players can pick up a lot about Gw2’s combat from others.

The problem however, is that commanders are often seen in a negative light. The old tag-for-prestige problem is but one reason. But there’s also the limitations inherent to commanding in the game. There’s the draconic message suppression system that makes commanding in PVE more bothersome than it needs to be. There’s also very little ways to quickly count how many players are with you, or ways to get them all in your squad. And providing instructions in the form of icons is a bit tricky, when it’s hard enough to explain to players how they can join your squad in the first place (and why they should do so).

I think the game could do a lot to smooth this out, so that inexperienced players do not have to first learn what a commander is, and what squads are. Maybe squads could be dynamic and automated.

I agree with this. I have negotiated my way through so many of these latest events due to fantastic commanders on AG. I had no idea, for instance, about the end phase of the holo fight where, if you down the three holos very close together you get the infinite light attunement and can basically have a MUCH easier time when all the mini-holos spawn than if you don’t kill the first three at the same time. It was also great to see just the one person taking control and explaining what to do and watching everyone do their best to follow the instructions. At the “leave green go blue”, I literally watched an entire zerg swing in the direction given. It was the smoothest that event has ever gone.

I also had the fortune to run a Marionette event under the direction of the good Mad Queen herself, and it was a great experience. Despite by that time my knowing each of the Wardens by heart, it was still great to see sensible, positive and useful information coming across in chat. There were no insults, no impatient outbursts, no capslocks except for the “GOOD LUCK” at the beginning. It was lovely.

These are the kind of people I actively want to listen to, that I want to take advice from and that I want to try hard for. Give me advice politely, understand that if this is my first time at this event, I may not execute your instructions perfectly all the time, and give me a chance to try and if we fail, try again. I can guarantee you that if that happens, I will try my absolute hardest to follow instructions. And I shall also pass those instructions on if I am at the event again later and other people need help.

Commanders could have a great part to play in mentoring.

There are, however, also some fairly horrible commanders who are rude, automatically assume you are an idiot and talk to you as such despite you not having said anything yet, or don’t know what they’re doing and blame anyone and anything they can when things go wrong. These people, even if they do know what they’re doing and are saying some sensible things, will always get ignored by others because you insulted them first chance you got. Treat me like an idiot and I WILL ignore you and work things out on my own. I am not so childish as to set out to deliberately fail the event, because I want to succeed as much as the next person. But don’t think I’ll respect you if you disrespect me.

To be fair, if you read the guide Hebee linked, there are pictures of each backpack under each breakdown of the mystic forge recipes. So it was there for you to associate the correct colour with the correct core type.

And, as Taygus says, the Knights are labelled according to colour as well.