Guild Wars 2

I commanded BG’s EB for several hours earlier.

At no time did it seem like JQ had any lag advantage. To suggest that they do is – imo – just plain silly.

KeeZee.7312:

You could take your arguments to Anet since they created the issue, naw…..lets just 2v1 and put the odds in our favor.

You are going on about Anet giving JQ an advantage but you have no issues with the 2v1 to get an advantage…..interesting.

Someone is talking out of both sides of their mouth.

At his point JQ will not take first, but since BG was the first to QQ….

Congrats on the win SoR.

Let JQ be the ones to decide.

I’m trying to work out how you think ….

“You could take your arguments to Anet since they created the issue.”

We have. This is why the thread was created. You’re the one who seems to believe that JQ should be entitled to an easy S1 win.

“You have no issues with the 2v1 to get an advantage…..interesting.”

I’ve pointed this out before. WvW is 3 sided by ANet’s design – it’s a balancing mechanism. In a 3 sided contest, 2 will tend to focus 1 for substantial periods. That relationship may change. This is both a reflection of math and strategy. Still, you’ve made clear that you want to keep a 2 win advantage simply because of the draw – balance isn’t one of your priorities is it?

“Someone is talking out of both sides of their mouth.”

Hmmm …. a potential point, if you understand what this phrase means (saying different things to different people about the same subject) and use it appropriately. Instead, my arguments have been consistent across position, subject, and audience. I apologise if they are hard to understand and will summarize again:

1. S1 should have an even playing field.
2. ANet should redo the draw.
3. JQ posters who value competition should support this.

“Congrats on the win SoR.”

And herein lies the perfect illustration of this thread’s point. SoR may win this week, especially if JQ people give up like you seem to be doing, but the point is that one of JQ’s extra matches against the low coverage servers will neutralize this. JQ would still be one win up.

And yet, somehow, this upsets you?

KeeZee.7312:

Sorry but if either BG or SoR had some perceived advantage they wouldn’t be posting that Anet needs to redo the new league.

They would be saying suck it up and deal with it.

There is a foul smell coming from your soap box.

You may be right about how two entire servers would react in a situation that hasn’t happened.

Or you may just be trying to deflect from what you’re not doing in an actual situation by accusing others of the same behavour in a hypothetical.

And, for the record, I don’t have a soapbox, I’m just the mirror to your Dorian Grey.

KeeZee.7312:

Cuddlepie.8109:

KeeZee.7312:

The only ones who think taking first would be tarnished are the sore losers….BG (ICOA).

If you think that a 30% easier draw in a competitive season is a good thing then I take it you’re WvWing for chests, finishers and AP?

The match-ups were decided by Anet. Not JQ. JQ shouldn’t feel their effort was tarnished because of something beyond their control.

Don’t expect you to understand that.

I don’t remember BG or SoR complaining when they threw matches to get a better match-up the last time Anet made changes to WvW.

But this is the forums where everyone plays the victim.

Take off the tinfoil hats, it doesn’t suit you.

Of course, you don’t expect me to “understand that”. But lets put your expectations and comprehension of my argument up against what I’ve posted in this thread:

Cuddlepie.8109:

In this season, BG and SOR play other top-half servers 6 times, JQ 4 times. That’s a 30% easier draw for the top server. JQ could split games against BG/SoR and still come out on top by dint of their assured wins against the lower half.

Of course, this isn’t JQ’s fault. It’s the hand they were dealt.

I’ve bolded the relevant bit to aid your reading.

This ties into what I’ve actually argued for and you’ve argued against. That JQ should be arguing on this forum for a redraw to make an even playing field. So, I think you’re wrong in your saying that “JQ shouldn’t feel their effort was tarnished because of something beyond their control.”

Of course they should. If you win a competition in which your competitors were starting 2 wins behind you then you should have the honesty and insight to admit that the win was not a pure one.

And I’d argue that the draw isn’t “out of their control”. If JQ posters, such as yourself, cared about competitive WvW then you’d be on here asking for a redraw, asking for the win to be put back into your control. Regardless of the result, you then can claim that you tried.

I’ve said in this thread that JQ can win S1 on its merits, I find it puzzling that JQ posters don’t appear to believe the same.

KeeZee.7312:

The only ones who think taking first would be tarnished are the sore losers….BG (ICOA).

If you think that a 30% easier draw in a competitive season is a good thing then I take it you’re WvWing for chests, finishers and AP?

NightShadow.1429:

I love how many are saying JQ should be in here kittening about the schedule, and I have to say I think we would be if we hadn’t been double fisted this entire week- If you guys had put on an actual fight instead of 2v1 the whole time, JQ probably wouldn’t be irked half as much at the current match up, and be more willing to come in and say hey, let’s change this. As it stands, I think we just want to watch you bash heads against one another for a bit.

In any 3 sided battle, 2 are going to focus 1 for a considerable portion of the contest. WvW is designed that way, drawing on the lessons of WAR and DAoC. It’s math and strategy.

Bear in mind that JQ comfortably won the last BG/SOR/JQ match and blew out their game against BG. JQ also has welfare run in S1 from the draw. It makes historical and strategic sense to focus JQ where possible. It might also help in JQ stopped paying its competition’s guilds to transfer over.

Regardless, JQ should be here in numbers asking for the season to be redone. Not necessarily because it would be a true test of everyone’s coverage, resilience and organisation. Not necessarily because it will result in the best fights. Not necessarily because it will reduce the ‘boring WvW blowouts that were complained about last week. But – if nothing else – to avoid tarnishing the S1 title they’re more than capable of winning on their own merits.

KeeZee.7312:

scootshoot.6583:

NICKEZ.3671:

There’s no question as to whether or not BG and SoR are working together against JQ, we can take it as a compliment though.

Sucks when you can’t pvdoor to victory like you been doin the last few weeks, eh?

Don’t blame us you guys didn’t play.

According to BG/SoR JQ is stacked and has better coverage buto the present situation in WvW would say otherwise.

With people pulling the overtime they are – I’m sure on all 3 servers – and the new achievements it’s largely pointless to draw conclusions about coverage changes. The evidence from the last SoR/BG/JQ matchup and the BG/JQ blowout was that there was an imbalance.

The ’didn’t come out to play’ line is specious. When you pay BG guilds to transfer to your server, simultaneously strengthening yourself and weakening your competition, you reap the ‘competition’ you paid for. You can see the ongoing results of this in the PPT during Oceanic.

Aaron.4807:

Jesus. Coverage =/= stacked. I don’t know how to explain it to someone that doesn’t get it. But, Tier 1 is all about coverage, NOT STACKING. If you stack all you get are NA guilds or whatever and you fight to see who can actually play each night. SoR has had this on occasion but generally all of our main NA guilds can wvwoo during prime time BECAUSE WE DIDN’T stack. We can’t stop bandwagoners tbh and we have our fair share but we DIDN’T actively recruit accept for coverage purposes, WHICH IS WHAT TIER 1 IS ALL ABOUT. JQ dominated forever because they exploited the holes in our coverage, BG did the same thing and we do the same thing BECAUSE THAT IS HOW YOU WIN IN TIER ONE.

Right now it is near impossible to get an organized fighting force on any map at any time. It is kittening ridiculous.

One difference in JQ’s approach is that recruit from their T1 competitors, a recent example being MERC whose leadership was paid to transfer, splitting their once cohesive guild.

This has the effect of reducing competition’s strength and increasing JQ’s numbers and PPT. The result, in BG’s case, was a blowout in last week’s score. Some JQ forum posters bemoaned the boring 500+ PPT that was their peak, while others chest thumped and continued to actively recruit in the forums.

The irony is that this was spun as a measure to increase balance and competition. What’s happened with the Qs is that this imbalance appears to have been somewhat addressed and – atm – SOR and BG have adapted to the new situation better, rallying their miltia. The zerg guild mentality that suited JQ so well in the past, may not be paying dividends in this emergent S1.

altosax.4218:

Just reading the chatter about how easy JQ has it in the tournament draw. From my experience, BG and SoR ALWAYS double team JQ. It’s happening in the first round now. But… this has gone on long before any tournament. Seems to me the two ugly step sisters still hate Cinderella. Your just covering the bases bad-mouthing the draw in case it doesn’t work.

Personally I think each server should rely on THEMSELVES to win battles. Alliances are for whiny babies who cannot do it alone. I also seem to remember BG throwing out their chest so proud when they were the 1ST to beat TEQ. Now it’s if JQ wins it’s because of the draw and it won’t mean anything. Pathetic!

If, and I mean if JQ wins it’s because of their use of strategy, it’s because of dedication and proper gameplay. So just play fair and that’s it. Trying to convince yourselves that a server will win because of the draw is childish.

Slim

Your experience of JQ ‘always’ being double teamed is nothing more than hyperbole. For approx 5-6 hours yesterday in EB, BG had SOR hitting Ogres while JQ was rampaging on our western flank. This was a double team but – guess what? – in a 3 sided conflict that’s both strategy and math.

I’m struggling to make any sense of your bizarre statement about Teq. If Anet had made Teq 30% easier for BG then you’d have a point. JQ has a demonstrably easier draw than its potential competitors – this isn’t spin, it’s a fact.

I had hoped that JQ posters would be at the forefront of posters asking for the draw to be redone, for it to be as competitive as it could be given coverage disparities.

But no, it appears that the desire for welfare wins in WvW runs strong in some.

Robot Chocken.7012:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Robot Chocken.7012:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Robot Chocken.7012:

If you have not noticed we have been busy fighting off a 2 v 1.You can message me in game if you need to be owned. Let us hope your skill level is higher quality than your name.

<shrug> 2v1? You can always pay more of BG’s guilds to come join you. Or get Anet to give you guys a rest for a few weeks in S1.

Wait ….

nvm …

Sorry I was not paying attention. Was busy looking at you have lowest PPT even with the double team

No worries, we’ve grown used to your zerg-induced, gold-funded gloating..

And we are getting used to your complaining. It reminds me of how a woman’s retirement home would probably be like.

Absolutely, everyone else ‘complains’ and u shine the light of truth into dark places.

You can see this from your above posts about OPP….

Robot Chocken.7012:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Robot Chocken.7012:

If you have not noticed we have been busy fighting off a 2 v 1.You can message me in game if you need to be owned. Let us hope your skill level is higher quality than your name.

<shrug> 2v1? You can always pay more of BG’s guilds to come join you. Or get Anet to give you guys a rest for a few weeks in S1.

Wait ….

nvm …

Sorry I was not paying attention. Was busy looking at you have lowest PPT even with the double team

No worries, we’ve grown used to your zerg-induced, gold-funded gloating..

Robot Chocken.7012:

If you have not noticed we have been busy fighting off a 2 v 1.You can message me in game if you need to be owned. Let us hope your skill level is higher quality than your name.

JaNordy.6149:

Look at how mad you tier1 nerds are. This is what happens when you care about PPT. Keep on being bad at PvP and good at PvD/PvS t1. Since JQ will clearly win you should show up to fight clubs and go roaming, oh wait nvm what am I saying, that would require you to be away from zergs and siege.

Actually, it’s about caring for even “fights” in terms of the Season 1 meta.

It’s about knowing the difference between PvP and WvW.

It’s about coordinating your scouts and your roaming groups to choke supply, hold BL and ninja where possible – while simultaneously running large groups in a strategically and tactically sound manner. PvD? Ask the SoR who were trying to take OGREs in EB last night for what? 5-6 hours?

It’s about wishing that JQ would be on here en masse asking for the draw to be redone to promote even competition in S1.

zhonnika.1784:

jblade.6470:

I’m not trying to be rude or say anyone is wrong, but I’m curious why everyone seems certain about who will win against who. If it was a for sure victory or loss, why even play? JQ could easily loose against any two other servers in the league that work together and I think they are loosing right now as well. I know the point of the post is saying they will have “easier” matchups, but how is everyone so confident in that they will be easy?

Exactly. SoR has the most numbers right now across all time zones to win. The panic over this is just getting crazy. If/When SoR wins every encounter against us, the ‘three easy wins’ won’t really mean much. If we somehow pull out a win this week, things may be different.

You call it “panic”, I call it an even playing field.

JQ are the dominant server in terms of golds won and total medals (since TA retired). They won the last match against BG and SoR.

Shonie.5297:

Won’t the best server win regardless of schedule?
BG and SoR both get 3 shots at JQ.
If JQ wins all those engagements, who cares what happens in the other weeks.

JQ has been the dominant server since TA retired, ie. for the last year, and has recently recruited guilds from its T1 rivals to weaken them and bolster itself (MERC being the prime example).

They’ve won the BG/SoR/JQ match 2 weeks ago and destroyed BG in last week’s match.

In this season, BG and SOR play other top-half servers 6 times, JQ 4 times. That’s a 30% easier draw for the top server. JQ could split games against BG/SoR and still come out on top by dint of their assured wins against the lower half.

Of course, this isn’t JQ’s fault. It’s the hand they were dealt.

Nuked.2360:

Neuromancer.2148:

Nuked.2360:

MagiKarp.8201:

Congrats to JQ on their win by default of Season 1 Leagues, well done Anet!

Enjoy the 3 weeks of pvdoor after this match JQ!

Or it’s simply the fact us being ranked one going into seasons was beneficial same as any sport. The number one ranked team always gets a slightly easier on paper schedule than anyone else.

Instant win matches = “slightly easier”

Someone was going to be upset regardless of the schedule.

So the “number one ranked team” deserves a 30% easier season?

How easy do you want your wins to be?

Robot Chocken.7012:

Cuddlepie.8109:

You have an interesting way to make an argument.

You take 11 weeks out of a year of dominance and present it as “proof” that you’re somehow a victim, an underdog?

You say “You can’t seriously say that JQ was stacked during those time periods”, when I never said anything at all about that period. Although a masterstroke, what concerns me is JQ’s recent recruiting, such as paying MERC to bandwagon over. It was a strategic masterstroke but the claims of improving competition and balance are cynical PR spin – or complete and utter clueless-ness.

You said “All you see now from JQ is the fact we can actually give our SEA something upgraded on more than just EB every night”. What we’re seeing this week is JQ 74k ahead so far and:
> 500 PPT on 8 ticks.
> 400 PPT on 86 ticks.
< 200 PPT on 15 ticks.

In essence, you seem upset that any other server has ever won, or that you should have to fight for anything.

I’ll repeat my previous question, how easy do you want your wins to be?

Titan ally were kings for like 3 weeks at a time when almost no one had even full exotic armor. Also are you going to quit ranting about this soon? Your tears are getting old at this point

TA retired unbeaten after winning 30 games in a row against fully q’ed servers. Back when burn out, tanking and and training weeks hadn’t entered the GW vocab. TA also didn’t recruit from AA – let alone pay their guilds to transfer – in order to win.

And you realise that your "point"about exotics – let alone ascended – simply reinforces that WvW back then was a much more level playing field? Fully Qed maps on the servers and minimal gear disparity.

Finally, as part of reacquainting you with logic, my posts usually do little more than point out facts from scores and quote JQ posters’ words back at your trolls. Feel free to call facts “ranting” or “tears”, that doesn’t lessen their validity or improve the strength of arguments based on nothing more than self-serving assertions.

BTW, on karma train night JQ still has enough numbers to tick 400+?

How easy DO you want your wins?

zhonnika.1784:

What I want to know is how anyone could seriously look at this week and say it’s the direct result of JQ being ‘overstacked’ and not the direct result of BG just not showing up. Certainly nobody playing inside T1 believes that crap :P

And last week?

And I’m not sure that “nobody playing inside T1 believes that crap” is accurate.

Polismassa.6740:

Waage.2047:

My condolences to JQ regulars. It sucks when it swings this heavy to one side.

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment, even if nobody else seems to…

Also, @ my fellow JQ’ers, stop giving BG crap about not trying, and going fareweather. Our server simply has more WvW players, and more coverage these days. I know that it’s a lot of new people saying that, but seriously, cut it out.

Recruiting masterfully is one thing, but believing – despite available evidence – that there isn’t an imbalance is doublethink.

Nuked.2360:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Nuked.2360:

Cuddlepie.8109:

If you’re interested in history, you might want to consider it a little more widely:
JQ: 19 Gold, 17 Silver, 19 Bronze. Total medals = 55
BG: 14 Gold, 11 Silver, 14 Bronze. Total 39
SoR: 8 Gold, 20 silver, 9 Bronze. total = 37.

And for this week’s match where it’s JQ vs BG vs lower tiered server, it’s just midweek and JQ is 48K ahead.

JQ can’t claim historical victimhood with any credibility.

You proved our point you guys have almost as much gold medals we just have a metric ton of silver/bronze medals almost the same amount as golds.

Without this weeks’ match JQ has 36% more gold medals than BG. Only in Nuked-world is this almost the same amount.

With this week’s match it goes up to 43%.

Thinking says you’re wrong.

How easy do you guys want your wins to be?

Mediocrity for months from JQ in terms of tier 1 where we had 1 gold in the many months since may and BG had 10+ in that same timezone. You can’t seriously say that JQ was stacked during those time periods. When JQ had no OCX no EU coverage whatsoever. We would hit 90 ppt during those periods. All you see now from JQ is the fact we can actually give our SEA something upgraded on more than just EB every night.

You have an interesting way to make an argument.

You take 11 weeks out of a year of dominance and present it as “proof” that you’re somehow a victim, an underdog?

You say “You can’t seriously say that JQ was stacked during those time periods”, when I never said anything at all about that period. Although a masterstroke, what concerns me is JQ’s recent recruiting, such as paying MERC to bandwagon over. It was a strategic masterstroke but the claims of improving competition and balance are cynical PR spin – or complete and utter clueless-ness.

You said “All you see now from JQ is the fact we can actually give our SEA something upgraded on more than just EB every night”. What we’re seeing this week is JQ 74k ahead so far and:
> 500 PPT on 8 ticks.
> 400 PPT on 86 ticks.
< 200 PPT on 15 ticks.

In essence, you seem upset that any other server has ever won, or that you should have to fight for anything.

I’ll repeat my previous question, how easy do you want your wins to be?

Mance.5640:

As this era of wvw in gw2 comes to an end, I would like to congratulate Jade Quarry on having the most successful wvw alliance in gw2.

The hard work that the wvw community has put in on a daily around the clock basis for a year plus has been nothing short of epic. All the battles, the fights, the politics, the drama, the hatred sometimes in and out, the Quarry and it’s honey badger pugs have endured, and will end at the top of the heap. Love the Quarry or hate the Quarry, it has earned it’s place as the Old Warhorse of Gw2.

Much respect to the “Old Warhorse” guilds that make up the heart of JQ, and to those who have came as pilgrims to the Quarry and made it their home. A home in which the mids, and hibs, and albs could finally get along. The home of a global pvp alliance with an almost a 50% win percentage in the most competitive world versus world alliance pvp that mmo’s offer.

The home of the Shadow Gypsies.

We salute you Jade Quarry.

There’s no doubt that JQ has played the meta very well. They deserve respect for such a consistent effort over a sustained period of time.

This, of course, isn’t consistent with the JQ forum posters who claim underdog status despite the clear evidence that JQ has been dominant since TA dissolved.

Speaking of which, I’d suggest that the kings of WvW remain TA, utterly dominant in a time when WvW populations were at their highest.

Asudementio.8526:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Nuked.2360:

Cuddlepie.8109:

If you’re interested in history, you might want to consider it a little more widely:
JQ: 19 Gold, 17 Silver, 19 Bronze. Total medals = 55
BG: 14 Gold, 11 Silver, 14 Bronze. Total 39
SoR: 8 Gold, 20 silver, 9 Bronze. total = 37.

And for this week’s match where it’s JQ vs BG vs lower tiered server, it’s just midweek and JQ is 48K ahead.

JQ can’t claim historical victimhood with any credibility.

You proved our point you guys have almost as much gold medals we just have a metric ton of silver/bronze medals almost the same amount as golds.

Without this weeks’ match JQ has 36% more gold medals than BG. Only in Nuked-world is this almost the same amount.

With this week’s match it goes up to 43%.

Thinking says you’re wrong.

How easy do you guys want your wins to be?

Percentages in relatively small ranges of numbers is an offensive way to show disparities; after all if JQ had 2 gold and BG 1 gold and they had only fought thrice JQ would have 100% more gold medals than BG!!!!

Offensive?

The numbers represent well over 6 months of data.

The facts show that JQ is dominant and has been so. It has won ~40% more than it’s nearest competitor – whose guilds it has been recruiting.

Nuked.2360:

Cuddlepie.8109:

If you’re interested in history, you might want to consider it a little more widely:
JQ: 19 Gold, 17 Silver, 19 Bronze. Total medals = 55
BG: 14 Gold, 11 Silver, 14 Bronze. Total 39
SoR: 8 Gold, 20 silver, 9 Bronze. total = 37.

And for this week’s match where it’s JQ vs BG vs lower tiered server, it’s just midweek and JQ is 48K ahead.

JQ can’t claim historical victimhood with any credibility.

You proved our point you guys have almost as much gold medals we just have a metric ton of silver/bronze medals almost the same amount as golds.

Without this weeks’ match JQ has 36% more gold medals than BG. Only in Nuked-world is this almost the same amount.

With this week’s match it goes up to 43%.

Thinking says you’re wrong.

How easy do you guys want your wins to be?

sil.4160:

matches where its was JQ vs BG vs lower tier server
week23, BG win by 111k
week36, BG win by 66k
week38, BG win by 33k (this was 4 weeks ago)

matches where its was SOR vs BG vs lower tier server
week29, BG win by 88k
week30, , BG win by 46k
week31, BG win by 22k
week39, SOR win by 65k (this was 3 weeks ago)

If you’re interested in history, you might want to consider it a little more widely:
JQ: 19 Gold, 17 Silver, 19 Bronze. Total medals = 55
BG: 14 Gold, 11 Silver, 14 Bronze. Total 39
SoR: 8 Gold, 20 silver, 9 Bronze. total = 37.

And for this week’s match where it’s JQ vs BG vs lower tiered server, it’s just midweek and JQ is 48K ahead.

JQ can’t claim historical victimhood with any credibility.

Nuked.2360:

Look at the ppt spread when against SoR/BG/JQ. There are immense spikes on all sides. But it was overall even look at the final outcome of the last match where it was roughly 10k difference til late thursday night at which point everyone devolved to karma training.

Let’s look at the evidence we have.

For the 5-12 Oct JQ/SoR/BQ match (http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/29/111), you’re right in that there are spikes for all three servers. But where your analysis falls short is that the dominant spikes (in terms of relative duration and magnitude, ie. their area) are (with one exception) JQ’s. To call the other server’s spikes “immense” doesn’t reflect the graph. They’re of limited duration, relatively small in magnitude and of varying ownership – reflecting, I’d argue, healthy competition in those tzs.

The pertinent point is that JQ’s spikes are forming an emergent pattern through this week’s match (http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/29/), albeit magnified by TC’s lack of coverage in those times.

In terms of the overall result (noting the slope and delta of JQ’s Score Evolution line for the 5-12 Oct match doesn’t change much with its closest competitor):

JQ > SoR by ~14.5K, and JQ > BG by ~ 24.3K

For the sake of argument, if a +200 PPT differential reflects relative dominance then at +800 points per hours that translates to: JQ had 18 hours of dominant play over SoR, and 30 hours of dominant play over BG.

JQ winning isn’t bad, but I’d argue that JQ recruiting off other Tier 1 servers is. I’d also argue that the guild leadership who’ve claimed that they transferred to JQ from BG to “improve competition” have materially contributed to what their own members have called “boring” WvW. I’d respect them some if they just came out and said: Yeah, <insert guild name’s leadership > did it for a) the gold, b) to be on the winning side, c) because I have a fascination with Waha, or d) all of the above.

Nuked.2360:

Join us today for some amazing fun and crazy moments!

You’re active in both world and guild recruitment for JQ, so I understand you don’t want to think that JQ is stacked or that you may be contributing to an imbalance. and, of course, SoR and/or BG may have recruited very well and are keeping their new recruits off until Leagues. But the evidence available suggests that JQ is stacked in SEA/OCX in a way that distorts balance and competition.

Um we have had fights in every timezone aside from SEA (I don’t play then so I can’t say what it’s like). We had good fights in early/mid OCX last night vs KH and PLX. Lots of fun fights all around.

I’t’s good that you’re experiencing “fun fights”, but this isn’t the same thing as server-wide balance, inter-server competitiveness, or relevant to a judgement about “stacking”.

Have a look at the following link and scroll down to the Income Evolution section. There are sections where PPT income is close, but the very significant periods of time where there is a massive gap between JQ and everyone else’s are where JQ has recruited from its rivals and where stacking has occurred.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/29/

To comment about TA I was around then JQ only won when they fell because we had the most consistent force at the time of their fall. We quickly succumbed to SBI who were superior coverage wise and also had some people transferring off JQ due to our 4hour queues some nights. (This is around launch over a year ago I don’t think anyone has 4 hour queue’s on weekdays anymore).

Perhaps relevant is that – apart from some boredom and burnout – TA leadership did consider the health of GW2’s WvW, believing that if TA’s dominance continued it would kill WvW.

Nuked.2360:

Waage.2047:

SFShinigami.2015:

Waage.2047:

Nuked.2360:

Seigfried.5938:

OliT.7945:

In all seriousness BG, please please recruit more oceanics. This is 500 tick is boring a hell.

Could you lend us a few thousands of gold you are sitting on so we can buy your guilds?

If we are buying so many guilds why is it we still have almost non existant EU Guild Coverage? BG has what 3-4 guilds who are EU exclusively and a few that run during this time zone? JQ has 1 small EU guild and a bunch of pugs. Huge difference yet you guys don’t show up during this timezone at all.

Yeah it is not like there is a massive dead zone where after we have to fix all the damage done so that JQ can get there kitten kicked during NA.

IF it wasen’t for paper keeps on ourside and tier 3 on yours we could do something, but that is now how it is. If we had any SEA we would tear a hole in you, but right now we have a lot of work to do.

We log in and every thing is broken and we need to rebuild it. We show up, but so those yours and while you only have SG that is of any threat it dose not change the fact that it is hard to take tier 3 keeps full of randoms with 15 RK.

Welcome to the last 5 months of being JQ, SEA and NA. Between 10pm server time and 4am server time we’d lose everything. Between 10 am server time and 2-4 pm server time we’d lose everything. We’re powered through it as best we could. Accepted what we couldn’t control and had fun fighting when we were on.

And you are even bigger then we ever was. We could not even get close to this high a tick and we are going into LOW activity part of BG.

IF you can barley get a fight out of us how do you think the S1 will go when you fight even less then us.

This reminds me of the last time we had open server transfers and JQ took number 1 spot with no fight for months on end. Only you are even bigger then that now.

You will win season 1, but what then?? IF i where you i would worry.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/33/101
I would look around Wednesday during OCX when BG has 500 ppt. But your are always right you never had dominate timezones like “Stacked Quarry”.
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/33/87
I could keep going during the time period BG was the king of the hill. Every server has a timezone they are strong in. Recruitment is the only way to solve this but we didn’t overstack a timezone.

There is, and always has been, an evolution of strength.

Post the TA-era, however, JQ remains both the gold medal leader and overall leader.
http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/medals
Some JQ posters have a short, and selective, memory.

Additionally, when other servers were winning, JQ actively sought to recruit from those servers. The BG guild leadership – particularly MERC – that was reportedly paid tens and tens of thousand of gold to move – has publicly said they did so to improve competition and balance.

This sort of recruitment had the double effect of improving JQ’s coverage markedly, while reducing BG’s in the same tz. It did more than that, in that it’s tarnished the reputation of what been a respected guild and its leadership.

Improved competition and balance between servers hasn’t happened.

It hasn’t happened to the extent that JQ’s own players are complaining that the Burj Khalifa-esque stack they’ve achieved is producing “boring” WvW while simultaneously closing their eyes and chanting to themselves that “we didn’t overstack a timezone”.

OliT.7945:

In all seriousness BG, please please recruit more oceanics. This is 500 tick is boring a hell.

According to The Kelly Gang website: “TKG has once again moved back to JQ *to help competition and keep 3 balanced top tier servers.”*

If I’m not mistaken, the desire to improve competition was one of the public reasons MERC leadership gave for moving over to JQ as well.

I’m still deciding if “irony” or “bathos” applies best to your post.

Tarkus.4109:

scootshoot.6583:

Love it or hate it this matchup becomes MERC vs Ex-MERC.

Sort of like when JQ and DB matched up for the first time back in the day after the Rawnoodles fiasco…..Good luck!

No it isn’t, and this is nothing like what happened with noodles and EMP. Please don’t comment on things you don’t know the details of in all due respect.

My impression – not a Neilsen poll – is that BG’s remaining MERC don’t seem to have anything against the MERC rank and file who followed leadership to JQ.

But to say that there’s been minimal damage done by the move is wishful thinking. Understandable in presenting PR spin, but Pluto-distance from what’s being said in TS .

There’s one individual, in particular, who there appears to be a lot of bitterness towards. And given the PPT we’re seeing in JQ MERC’s tz, I think the word “fiasco” appears reasonable.

azureazure.5381:

God you guys are super stacked! 400+ ppt lol
How did JQ manage to recruit so many guilds over the past 1-2months?

I believe some came for the love of balance and to promote competition.

Tarkus.4109:

Rigel.3092:

frifox.5283:

dragon.8071:

we the people of sor do no play for ppt.

Score Not From Tick (as of this post):

• JQ – 84,965 out of 249,533 (34.05%)
• SoR – 92,039 out of 240,757 (38.23%)
• BG – 96,388 of 229,442 (42.01%)

If you claim something then it’s BG that actually doesn’t play for PPT and focuses on fights/stomping. BG has the most points not from tick even though it has the least total out of the 3 servers.

From my perspective, all this indicates is that BG, as a whole, spikes its downed opponents better than the other two servers – this will fluctuate undoubtedly.

It doesn’t indicate that BG spikes more players than the other servers, as the final outcome is total points not kill count. One spike with superior (*) bloodlust gives you three points. Getting the buff is hard to get, but easy to keep – so all the higher points off from the tick shows that BG held more bloodlust buffs than any other server in this matchup. Requires good coordination and a focus on acquiring said buffs, but does not show they are any better at open field than anyone else.

Might just be me being pedantic as kitten but a high score not from tick doesn’t mean someone “plays for fights”, it means they have a large amount of focus on the central nodes and has enough people to hold said nodes.

i.e. Green server could stomp 500 people in PST prime time with minor bloodlust – they get 500 points; Blue stomps 350 people with major bloodlust and gets 700 points; Red stomps 700 people with no bloodlust and gets no extra points.

Killcount is involved but the strongest factor is if you have the coordination to hold the buffs

“but does not show they are any better at open field than anyone else.”

Sot sure why you felt the need to add this? It was something that wasn’t claimed.

“the strongest factor is if you have the coordination to hold the buffs”

If a tz is stacked so that its unbalanced there’s no need to play for buffs. You have the PPT you need. Additionally, if you’re running a massive numbers advantage you tend to burn people down before you can stomp.

“Might just be me being pedantic as kitten”

While I’m a WvWer, I support the GvG community.

Well done to Devon and ANet for this step.

As BG tries to rebuild SEA/OCX, some former MERC members in WvW a few nights ago.

http://youtu.be/pF9DBrU8U04

I was merely trying to keep up.

Webley.1295:

CuddleStrike.8215:

Vash.9183:

Webley.1295:

so cuddlepie knows more about merc than a merc commander – yea sure

thats these forums for you

keep theory crafting mate and bending them words – good job

Cuddlepie is an Oceanic commander of BG and used to be in [DiE] with Tarkus

All of you seriously cut it out. Gallimar put a sock in it and same as you Cuddlepie. Just beat each other up on the kitten field.

JQ Merc and BG Merc for the most part don’t hate one another. We were guildies. We were friends. And I’ll honestly be kitten ed if I watch a few of you wreck the remaining friendships that we still have with one another.

As it stands. …. I’m always excited to see friends on the battlefield! I had a lovely jumping and waving session with a BG Merc. <3

(Hi vash )

Sorry Cuddles, I just think its disgusting that people will disect Tarkus like this after the move. If they really were respecting friends of his, they would of saw the notes on the culling of half-active guild missioners instead of turning it into disrespecting hate toward our old friends who stayed on BG. Ill leave it at that. I had some time to burn at work and used it to stick up for Tarkus and to clear the air. The message prolly got through to rational people anyway.

@Vash – I know who he is, he is not merc and so his theorys on what words were used by Tarkus are just that and only that… theories. Tarkus gave him the answer he was looking for, he saw past it. I played on BG to in that timezone. You obviously dont know who I am, thats because I dont come here much, and for good reason!

“Theories” ….

I played a role in helping Mooon mentor Tarkus when he was learning to command in DiE.

If Tarkus agrees, I’m more than happy to post screenies of him and me talking extensively in DiE about what happened, discussing the current state of affairs, and what I’ve suggested could be done to fix it.

I’d also suggest that the true measure of what was posted is how former MERC members reacted. Tarkus has a perception of what he said and what he meant, but in any conversation the audience has to be considered. If you were on vent last night then you know what the reaction was . This isn’t me suggesting or interpreting anything. This is being aware that words and actions – even virtual ones – have consequences.

I’d pay more attention to your “disgust” if it were backed by something more credible than you being mad for hours at work.

Tarkus.4109:

Webley.1295:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Tarkus.4109:

Hey SoR – I hear BG has cookies and ppt lead.

It was bound to happen at some point during the week. Thanks for posting.

Speaking of which, the post where you called your former guild mates “dead weight” reminded me of the drama around FEAR’s mid July posts (not here) about farming MERC and others. BG SEA were understandably annoyed and, iirc, responded by going on a rampage.

So, I wondered what sort of response your “dead weight” faux pas – since edited out – would cause.

I randomed with a float that some of your former guildmates were running last night and the FRAPS I got was pretty interesting. I’m not sure I saw a lot of dead weight. I did, however, see a lot of dead. I could be wrong but I think you featured at least twice.

I’ll finish editing it up this evening (ADST) and link it when uploaded.

Ahh, sweet

Make sure to edit out your numerous wipes while your at it

lel

and well done for not being able to read the details on the dead weight thing. for a “sniper” you have selective reading

everyone has taken it out of context and used it as hate propaganda

cya on the battlefield

@ Gallimar, you aren’t helping.

@ Gallimar. Let’s look at what was said: “The best fights I’ve had all year have been against the BG ones, as we cut a lot of dead weight from the guild when we left”.

Question. If a member is inactive how do they negatively affect the fights that a guild has? How does removing inactive members – the “dead weight” who don’t play – improve your guild’s performance and result in the “best fights” all year?

Answer: They don’t and it doesn’t.

So, I put it to you that any reasonable person reading the “dead weight” comment would have taken it as an insult to the MERC members who helped build your reputation.

The ones on BG last night that I ran with certainly did.

Your attitude towards these former guild members in your comment, “Make sure to edit out your numerous wipes while your at it” only reinforces this impression that you disdain your former guildies.

The MERC commander and guild members that I ran as a random with last night are trying to rebuild the community you left. For the record, when I was running with them last night they were wiped once in a tower assault.

I’m not sure what happened as the JQ PPT went well north of BG’s and wouldn’t surprised if there were more wipes as your large numbers advantage kicked in. Personally, I respect these former MERC guys for the way they keep fighting when the odds are against them. I have the same respect for the TC guilds that WvWed in our last match.

I guess we value different things.

Tarkus.4109:

Hey SoR – I hear BG has cookies and ppt lead.

It was bound to happen at some point during the week. Thanks for posting.

Speaking of which, the post where you called your former guild mates “dead weight” reminded me of the drama around FEAR’s mid July posts (not here) about farming MERC and others. BG SEA were understandably annoyed and, iirc, responded by going on a rampage.

So, I wondered what sort of response your “dead weight” faux pas – since edited out – would cause.

I randomed with a float that some of your former guildmates were running last night and the FRAPS I got was pretty interesting. I’m not sure I saw a lot of dead weight. I did, however, see a lot of dead. I could be wrong but I think you featured at least twice.

I’ll finish editing it up this evening (ADST) and link it when uploaded.

Webley.1295:

You guys are Taking Tarkus’s post out of context. When he says we lost alot of “dead weight” we had 400 members before we moved to JQ, many not serious bout wvw, not sure if they knew the tactics, read the forums etc.

Theres obviously still a great deal of MERC who did know thier stuff and stay on BG which we respect to this day 100%

We are not a 400 member guild no more. The dead weight is gone, we know who knows what now, if that makes sense

so please stick that in your notes guys

To all the MERC haters out there – XOXOXO

MERC are still getting to know JQ and JQ are getting to know us. This is our first stress test as the matchup before was really boring for all parties

- Gallimar

That’s simply not true. Tarkus has previously criticised the quality of the MERC members – particularly the Commanders – that stayed. He did so in conversations with me about why he left. These conversations were due to our shared history long before he joined MERC.

I’m glad to know that JQ ticking for over 300 for hours isn’t “boring for all parties”. The fact is that Tarkus and Ralikh showed poor knowledge of the T1 meta and poor judgement in moving.

Neither Shakira’s hips nor the PPT lie – no matter how much apologists post otherwise.

Tarkus.4109:

Cod on Cod.3694:

Tarkus.4109:

Shifty.4985:

Tarkus, go to bread!

NOPE

Quick, Someone make a funny meme or snarky .gif out of this!!!

“Leaves BG because he doesn’t want to burn out doing overtime….”

The best fights I’ve had all year have been against the BG ones since we left, as we cut a lot of dead weight from the guild when we moved off. Making a 3rd underdog server that hasn’t been competitive for first place for competitive again is part of the enjoyment you get from leading and JQs community is just as welcoming as BGs was. We are still the only guilded presence that has its prime ~5-9pm AEST as opposed to the previously stacked BG OC which had 3 OC guilds that usually ended in a ROFL-stomp on BGs behalf mostly from the part of them having a large militia and guild presence 24/7. We improved competition by moving as JQ was legitamately the underdog when it came to competition, as having one-sided fights is fun for no-one and moving from the previously Rank 1 server to the previously Rank 3 shifts the meta of T1 so that we get more fights in more timezones as opposed to everyone stacking in their respective timezones.

Thanks for the fights HB, Afterlife, PLX, RK and IRON.

I don’t know what’s most surprising about the above:

1. Arguments to justify a move that’s created a SEA/OCX environment at least as unbalanced as anything previous.
2. The inability to see the irony of statements like “having one-sided fights is fun for no-one”. Ticking at over 300 PPT for hours is “improving compeition”?
3. The disrespect towards former MERC members (the same ones who are doing their best to rally BG and fight the JQ zergs advantage that Tarkus has created).

Actually, I think the most surprising thing is that Tarkus appears to believe what he posts.

zamalek.2154:

Almost as soon as I did this a golem was placed behind me (90% of the force were pugs and were not in TS, so obviously everyone used their supply on the golem instead). As soon as I asked them not to they placed another one (and I did ask nicely).

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

The addition of the bonus WXP for laurels/badges is simply intended to give WvW players an additional option they can spend their laurels/badges on, it is not intended to fix any issues with alts and WxP.

We’re aware of, and actively discussing the amount of progression we’ve added through WxP and the difficulty for playing multiple characters as a result. When we make changes to help address alts/WxP rank, we’ll make sure to specifically call out the change is to help address that issue.

The answer is philosophically the same as previous beneficial changes you’ve implemented for other game systems:

Karma: account bound WxP and toon bound WxP traits.
AP: when individual WxP is pooled for the first time, you earn bonus chests (if any) and retrieve them at the rate of +1 per additional level earned.

Elegant, balanced, in line with precedent, and treats your WvW-oriented customers on equal terms to your PvE ones.

What I don’t understand is why this suggestion (and there’s many who have made it before) has not been embraced by ANet?

morrolan.9608:

Cuddlepie.8109:

<shrug> It’s not a case of “allowing” SoR do anything. Last night in SEA/Oceanic, SoR were focused almost exclusively on BG.

No we didn’t, I was on TCBL with a significant group all oceanic evening.

You’ve totally missed the point.

In maps where there was a BG presence, SoR clearly focused BG.

The fact that you also had a “significant group” in TCBL reflects your coverage advantage but is irrelevant to the context of the post I referenced and my response.

frifox.5283:

Last night, SoR had our garri. What do BG commanders do? Take those following them and go on TC bl to cap towers, and later take their garrison. All while BG map was left without any organised force. If you want someone to blame then blame BG and their commanders for allowing enemy to WP our keeps and garri. By now it’s pretty clear the server as a whole has given up on winning the matchup.

Fair enough – furious agreement can be a good thing.

An aspect that is important when leading militia is that, regardless of TS, they tend to follow you physically. In a perfect world, a commander physically removed from the centre of the carnage, able to surveil the engagement, would be ideal. But I’ve found that an essential part of WvW commanding is actually leading in line with Nap’s dictum that the moral is to the physical as 3 is to 1.

To the extent that it matters, I have 52 "Tier 1’ wins, was one of Titan Alliance’s WvW commanders and still command T1 today (generally in EB, often running militia around a smallish guild core).

My Guard’s priorities are, in priority order, survival (incl cc breaks), cc and group utility. DPS for the type of commanding I do is not a consideration. I’m the focus of our group’s movement, DPS and cc calls, healing and rebuffing calls, as well as being the focus of most threat group’s DPS and cc. I can’t effectively do any of this if downed/defeated. Unless I’m running untagged with guildies or running a commander bait ruse, then you have to be at point to be effective. On this I fundamentally disagree with Obtena and Death, and am scratching my head to think of a well known T1 commander who is not the focus of an engagement. There’s also in my experience, a survivability benefit to being at the schwerpunkt – due to player reaction lag and game skill lag (not to mention chained veils etc) the most dangerous place to be is behind the commander.

Consequently, I run T, V and HP, Mel and lemongrass, with WxP points supporting the focus. Your build will depend on a host of playstyle factors, but this has, recently, worked against some of the best open field guilds in the game from SoR, JQ and TC, including in protracted engagements of up to 10 minutes.

The GW2 Twitter response to overflows was:

“A number of overflow worlds have defeated Tequatl, so they’re definitely not bound to fail. ~RB2”

I wonder how “not bound to fail” functions as a percentage of all overflow attempts?

I marvel at how far the GW2 team’s perceptions seem to be from that of its playerbase (well, on the forums at least).

The word that springs to my mind about their attitude is hubris.

The difficulty doesn’t concern me, but some things do:

the inability to get into my own server’s map,
the inability to game with my guild,
the dashed hopes of the queue popping, and
the indeterminate wait around Teq spawning

I find all of these add to the defining characteristic of this “fight” – tedium.

My experience, so far is that Teq is quintessentially unfun: a toxic mix of long periods of unrelenting boredom followed by a short, sharp dose of disappointment.

Port to map > Get placed in overflow > wait for a period of time > overflow fails miserably > marvel at how far ANet has drifted from its principles.

Repeat.

schuess.4362:

My favorite part of that score update is that FA owns SMC.

With the PPT score as it is, Commanders aren’t generally concerned with holding SMC. There’s dragonite in them there hills.

The alternative to swapping SMC is to PvE. I’ve done some world boss fights and WvW is elite athletics compared to those skill-less encounters. I’ve washed my hands, but I still can’t get the stain out.

As I said yesterday, a video showing EB on reset is at http://youtu.be/CFk7PAE1WKU

It includes excerpts from the 10 minute fight around the Grub at JQ’s Keep.

Strangely enough, the same thing happened again last night in EB, where we hit (only once tho) a sizable group doing Grub. Not that JQ needed them with the numbers they had on EB through 0030 AEST.

Deli.1302:

Why are people complaining about BG blobbing? Of all the T1 servers, their NA blobs the least. I agree about them blobbing during oceanic/sea though…. that CA zerg in EB….

CA will run tagless when there’s a good militia commander on. there’s often not that luxury as MERC usually runs float, and therefore CA will run EB. The militia follow Sehoon because they know he’s more than competent.

From yesterday’s reset, I’ll be putting up a video of the 10 minute fight against JQ, under the walls of their keep and its siege, as they were killing the Grub and looting its chest. You can see at the start that the militia is with CA but as the fight progresses a lot die off. Regardless, you can see the quality of BG’s militia, as Sehoon directs them around. When we disengage (as FA had brought golems to (iirc) SM), it’s mostly just CA and members of known guilds remaining ~ as you’d expect.

Note CA doesn’t just run end OCX/SEA. CA also runs EB during reset. Visual Sun, and sometimes myself, run the militia while a guild group will be our scalpel. We have superb scouts and peculiar people who live to upgrade.

Jet.4795:

Kodiak.3281:

And we again see how well JQ (or SOR) holds up in T1 without a third server to hold their hand.

They don’t.

Dude you serious? Use some common sense SoR cancels out the time zones that BG has and JQ does not. That simple, give us the coverage and we will see who wins. Your 10k lead has been gained through Oceanic/ part of SEA. Thanks but use head next time please.

<shrug> I generally agree – although this week BG was performing well through reset – the lead was there well before Oceanic.

So, from what I’ve seen, there’s more at play than just coverage. CA’s experience last night was that when we did encounter larger FA and JQ groups (from approx 2300 AEST) their AoE damage is significant but they tend to melt. The prolonged encounter where we trolled the very large group trying to do Grub was an example. That and a few of the wipes made remarkable FRAPS.

Regardless, it was good to see both JQ and FA fighting to defend their core EB territory. Shows really good spirit and I hope they continue to represent during the week.