Guild Wars 2

I’m on the other side of the fence.

Seeing that video has strengthened my decision to make the bifrost.

I don’t like the bulkiness of this raven staff. Only cool thing is the soft blue colour.

Edit: That axe on the other hand looks kitten AMAZING. Only problem is no mainhand axe on mesmers…

If I see there is an enemy mesmer or thief on the other team I automatically go into hyper vigilant mode for the match.

ie, finger ready to hit F4, thumb on dodge, idling with mainhand sword out and blurred frenzy at the ready, stunbreaks at the ready.

Also regularly checking the minimap to see if the enemy mesmer(s) or thief(ves) is(are) engaged in combat elsewhere in the map or not. If it’s nit obvious where they are then I prepare for incoming stealth burst.

If I see a mesmer stealth and know they plan to attack then it’s much easier to time/see and dodge/avoid the burst. It’s when they +1 you and you’re unprepared when the pain happens.

expandas.7051:

Surprised that no one has mentioned it yet but Illusionary Leap —> Swap is a nice tool for kiting on a low CD, especially if you throw The Prestige in there as well.

We did mention it.

Noss.4105:

1. Look fabulous.
2. Be fabulous.

This.

Projectseph.2670:

Curunen.8729:

If you don’t stealth to break target then once they’ve targeted you there is no deception anyway other than movement/positioning.

Wasn’t it skill-shot based? Didn’t think the game used tab-targeting.

Er, yes it does – it’s all tab targeting and you can lock target once acquired.

Truth be told, nothing works against anyone half decent.

At best you can use stealth and teleport/mobility skills (blink, phase retreat, ileap) to confuse people with positioning, but other than that players will not be fooled longer than the <1second it takes to retarget you after stealth.

If you don’t stealth to break target then once they’ve targeted you there is no deception anyway other than movement/positioning.

Mebaru.4513:

This topic supposed to discuss condi mesmer problems not how annoying they are, not?

It’s relevant in that unfortunately the (balance) problems can be indirectly caused by qq from irrational hatred/annoyance – ie knee jerk nerfing.

Levetty.1279:

The first rule of Guild Wars 2 players is ‘Does Mesmer still exist? Yes? Its OP nerf it’

Haha, post of the day.

Welcome, as said Dom/Duel/Inspiration works well.

Otherwise you could try mantra of resolve – but you’ll have to drop either portal or decoy.

When Chrono comes you could spec it with hoelbrak/melandru runes.

If running Dom/Duel/Illusions (I don’t think many people do for power anymore) then of course take the torch trait unless playing double ranged.

In any case, as a mesmer, avoidance of conditions is still top priority – unless you are a Chrono/Inspiration Melandru/Lemongrass anti condition monster in wvw…

Rashagar.8349:

Curunen.8729:

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

Out of curiosity, do you find people still react more negatively than expected to playing against you when you play as condi mesmer but without those tools? (not meant in any sort of accusatory tone).

I know this is like a tangential conversation to the OP of this thread but I am curious where this derail leads.

Well I think it’s on topic in anycase so no worry about derailing the thread.

Most comments will be hate/moaning anyway – because that is the stigma attached to condi mesmer. Some will just shout “PU cancer” for the hell of it, some will say “condi scrub” and so on – the usual nonsense.

But I believe I have received more positive comments due to build choices – things like “I didn’t expect sword with condi”, to “gg wp mesmer”, “interesting build”, and so on.

Edit: for the record
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsfWlsnhy0YRawRNwtGLvGk5KGeNLnwGiGaAyZTA-TJRHwAp3fIZZAAnCABPBAA
I know it’s not the most efficient thing but I enjoy it and who cares about efficiency if you’re having fun.

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

Curunen.8729:

Cygnus.6903:

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

To be fair, even the bog-standard Sc+T/Staff PU Condi Mes can’t “auto attack” anyone to death. Not unless they’re literally AkittenIT: “high stacks of torment by auto attacking…” lawl

Agreed – it’s not possible to take that much damage/application from auto attacks.

Cygnus.6903:

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

Some silver lining – as unbelievably shocking as it sounds, it is actually possible to get compliments as a condi mesmer. :o

One from a greatsword mesmer and one from a power warrior after some pretty good “duels”.

I can’t remember the last time receiving compliments when playing condi compared to the endless slew of whining/moaning/hate messages and whispers. I suppose running sword instead of scepter and choosing bountiful disillusionment has its benefits in terms of morale.

I was close to quitting condi come hot but it’s comforting to know it’s not all endless hate.

Tek.4083:

Precognition is best

Truth. I adore this well.

Oh, more of this again…

Yes they’re full glass.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Curunen.8729:

I only got to test briefly on Sunday but I found playing Duelling/Illusions/Chrono condi I was able to trait Desperate Decoy and take Blink/MoResolve/WoPrecognition and felt it worked well around using prestige/MI as the stealth skills. I find I only need two – loosely one as an “oh kitten” gtfo button and the other to use offensively.

There was less chance of accidently causing reveal on self when needing to use actual Decoy because of spending less time in stealth thanks to the well of precognition, and for the first time ever I found the traited Decoy to be half decent.

I was very happy because the well offered more on point presence, group fight survivability and less enemy moaning about “perma” stealth. xD

You know, at this point I’d totally written off Desperate Decoy. I’ll have to try that come HoT.

Did you take Well of Eternity for the condi cleanse, or stick with something more frequent like Ether Feast?

Condi cleanse was traited torch and mantra of resolve. The build links are in my sig (sword/torch + staff condi shatter).

I stuck with ether feast because I still need to move around to avoid damage being vulnerable to incoming conditions.

I was honestly surprised how well desperate decoy slotted in when using we of precog, blink, prestige and mass invis. Providing you try to stay out of stealth as much as possible (ie save mass invis for gtfo, or resses) then desperate decoy is surprisingly useful for survival.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Curunen.8729:

Embolism.8106:

Duel/Chaos/Illu is an easier condi build to play but I think I can safely say that X/Illu/Chrono is stronger overall.

Yeah I agree.

x/Illusions/Chrono is better for damage output/cooldowns, but lacks the survivability traits that you can get with Duelling/Chaos/Illusions or Duelling/Inspiration/Illusions (ie traited mirror/blink, protection/regen, pDefender, condi clear, stability/boons etc…).

^
A lot of the chrono’s new survivability is in that shield block, and shield does very little for condi atm. Well of Precognition is an option, but condi mesmers are even more tight on utilities than other mesmers (since in addition to Blink/Decoy/Portal/Feedback/Condiclear, we also have Signet of Midnight and Signet of Dom competing for our attention).

I only got to test briefly on Sunday but I found playing Duelling/Illusions/Chrono condi I was able to trait Desperate Decoy and take Blink/MoResolve/WoPrecognition and felt it worked well around using prestige/MI as the stealth skills. I find I only need two – loosely one as an “oh kitten” gtfo button and the other to use offensively.

There was less chance of accidently causing reveal on self when needing to use actual Decoy because of spending less time in stealth thanks to the well of precognition, and for the first time ever I found the traited Decoy to be half decent.

I was very happy because the well offered more on point presence, group fight survivability and less enemy moaning about “perma” stealth. xD

CandyHearts.6025:

Give me this now! O.O Duel wielding scepters must be a thing!

I’d rather a maihand Focus and dual wield Anomalies.

Regarding AWTEW – I’m not against the alacrity. I think it’s great to have a different role for pve.

My problem is it kind of overshadows the individual purpose of each well because you end up spamming them for alacrity on a group and also takes away from the uniqueness of well of recall.

So I agree with Embolism in that I wouldn’t mind if the alacrity was spread around in different places – eg pulsed from phantasms, aoe on heal, etc.

Edit: But if they did change Improved Alacrity to no personal increase then I’d want to see Flow of Time increased back up to 1 second per illusion including self.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Nice concept, and fleshed out really well.

But seriously? Another offhand? Why you do this!

Yeah, this.

Imaginitive ideas, but seriously the next elite spec must have a mainhand weapon, or a two hander (and no F5 if a two hander).

Embolism.8106:

Duel/Chaos/Illu is an easier condi build to play but I think I can safely say that X/Illu/Chrono is stronger overall.

Yeah I agree.

x/Illusions/Chrono is better for damage output/cooldowns, but lacks the survivability traits that you can get with Duelling/Chaos/Illusions or Duelling/Inspiration/Illusions (ie traited mirror/blink, protection/regen, pDefender, condi clear, stability/boons etc…).

FJSAMA.2867:

I would just add to fix the random (?) bug which cause to continum split rift to be there on the ground kinda permanently and never snap you back in time…
Happened to me like 3 or 4 times during the weekend… One time i can even say i did it, nothing happened and the rift stood there on the ground, i went from far to mid stood there fighting, and when was pushing far i went back to its location.. Cant recall the cooldowns, but at least to the location it ported me… from like 8k range away.

Yeah I had it once where it ported me after like 15 seconds or so – something ridiculously long after the duration had expired.

Heh, yeah.

Anyway in just over 2 weeks we’ll get them permanently.

Embolism.8106:

Remember that Well of Precog also grants Endurance on ending, allowing you to dodge and mitigate any burst attempts. Plus it doesn’t lock you or anything so you can just as easily use Blurred Frenzy or another form of mitigation just before it ends.

Decoy doesn’t even compare to Well of Precog considering a lot of burst attempts use Immobilise too which makes you continue to eat a burst after Decoying.

Shhh….

Edit: but on a serious note – if they decide to raise the cooldown then they should also make it instant cast. I would be happy if they just left it alone at forty five seconds with 1/4s cast time.
And I think the endurance gain isn’t the most useful thing given you can sit and regain endurance for 3 seconds anyway – maybe the stability on end would be nicer.

keenlam.4753:

When u want to run the following archetype spec instead?
1. PU Condi (Duel/Chaos/Illu)
2. Selfish Highest Burst Dmg (Dom/Duel/Illu)

I am among the minority thinking elite specs in the long-term are actually both horizontal and vertical (diagonal???) progression for the base class.

Say in the long run, we have 3-4 elite specs to choose from. Players will end up leveling as a mesmer, knowing enough about the core class but the end-game is to specialize.

I agree with this.

Once we have 3 or more elite specs I believe it will become the norm to pick one elite and two core traitlines. Perhaps Anet will again revamp the build system at that point to account for it – but who knows, it’s probably 5 years away or more…

Ok some feedback on a few things (not everything):

Well of Precognition – I believe this has serious potential to be a good alternative to Decoy in many builds as a stunbreak/damage avoidance. I think it is perfectly fine in terms of strength – when you compare it to things like blurred frenzy on a very low cooldown, other classes’ blocks/evades or even simple dodging… Yes I realise it’s AoE, but I still don’t consider it to be that powerful. The opponent can see you the entire time if you’re standing in the well and prepare burst to hit straight after.
The problem at the moment is many players just continued to unload damage when a mesmer was standing in the well which is a waste of cooldowns. I think once players learn to wait/kite when a mesmer is in the WoP and save their damage for when it ends, there will be no problem with this skill. In fact I think it’s cooldown should be reduced to 40s base to match that of Decoy. The cast time could also be instant given its function as a stunbreak. Please do not increase the cooldown of this skill or it will lose ground once again to Decoy!

Flow of Time – perfectly fine.

Improved Alacrity – perfectly fine.

AWTEW – I think it could do with a flavour change because of a new style of monotonous/one dimensional gameplay involving being an “alacrity bot”, as well as overshadowing the individual purpose of each well. Perhaps it could be a trait like Master of Fragmentation or Bountiful Disillusionment in that it gives unique bonuses to each well depending on their purpose/function.

Shield 4 – perfectly fine but the phantasm does need a survivability rework.

Shield 5 – needs to be fixed on impact with walls.

Csplit – I’d say give it a 2s base duration for self shatter and the +1s per extra illusion shattered. That totals 5 seconds max and also allows you to do a self or one illusion shatter for more clutch play.

Seize the Moment – I personally think it’s too weak at the moment and should function on self shatter.

Well I’d never take Chrono if we lost either F3 or F4.

Continuum Split is nice but not as necessary as the other shatters.

On the subject of stealth – I’ve already replaced Decoy with Well of Precognition which I believe is superior in pvp.

At the moment I’m only using prestige and mass invis on my condition build.

I’ve also found less opponent whining with less stealth which is good for my morale.

Well it’s about time a bunker/point holder style is available for mesmers – rather than always kiting around and going in for burst.

I think it’s fantastic, nothing wrong at all. Opens up new role possibilities.

No I’m quite happy at the moment.

The only thing annoying me is the amount of player hatred there is targeted at mesmers. Sure it’s always been the case, but it’s reaching a new high (or low depending on which side you are).

It’s almost making me want to switch to a different class as main because I’m honestly fed up with qq/hatred directed at this class.

It’s sad that Focus is just not good enough in pvp at the moment, nevermind the fact of using two offhands requires both scepter and sword – when usually one plus either staff or greatsword is better.

I think moving Warden’s Feedback down to an adept major trait would be a good start and encouraging more people to use it.

It seems the “condi” hate chat has escalated this weekend.

If I play a power chrono or mesmer – minimal hate.

If I play any condi build – instant “condi noob” or whatever.

I seriously don’t get it. In any case my block list continues to increase.

Sometimes Well of Precognition goes on cooldown but doesn’t cast – I think if I accidently dodge too quickly in the 1/4 second cast time it cancels the cast and puts it on full cooldown.

I think this well should be changed to instant cast given it is also a stunbreak.

1. Sylvari – they look the best when standing still.

2. Asura – their animations are the best.

Why did you change from rabid+nightmare to rampager+rune of the ele?

Also seeing as you have DE and Chronophantasma, take Improved Alacrity instead of Illusionary Reversion. The effect is noticeable.

Edit: Don’t forget the loss of Chaotic Transference and Persistence. I prefer Undead runes to buff the condition damage further with the toughness from rabid.

Embolism.8106:

Currently playing Condi Chrono Shatter Bunker (jeez that’s a mouthful). Really tough, outputs decent condition pressure, with a smattering of team support.

From a Bunker standpoint it’s not as supporty as Guardian, but is much more capable of holding its own when alone and of course is more mobile. You can customise a lot of the build to your taste and still retain its core functionality too: if you want more offensive pressure or mobility you can have it. The format I’m playing is probably one of the tankier variants.

Overall I really like the template of Condi Shatter with Shield. There’s so many variations that are all viable.

Just a side note – nice to see you taking Sword instead of Scepter.

It’s a fun build for sure.

Yeah I’d also go Dom/Insp/Chrono with Sword/Shield + Scepter/Focus.

The biggest problem right now is the choice between Restorative Illusions and Warden’s Feedback.

If Warden’s Feedback was say swapped with Restorative Mantras in adept so we could also trait it with RI I would happily take the Focus no problem. But the untraited projectile destruction is bugged (projectiles can still hit you) and RI is simply a much better trait for survival. It’s sad but RI is so amazing that any mesmer build going into Inspiration benefits from it. I’d only take Warden’s Feedback in PvE now, if I played that, but in PvP it can’t compete with the condi removal on shatter.

Anyway I have been playing this: EDIT wrong link!
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8OnknBlph1fCUrhlTj68IiirjMAWggqOar2tF-TJxHABXXG4k9HE7iAAwTAAA

Similar build with Staff + Sword/Shield because staff is simply better in PvP.

The Slow on Interrupt and Danger Time are the best choices here I find, and allows you to do solid sustained direct damage thanks to the many crits without needing to perform high spike bursts. Chronophantasma is of course the superior grandmaster and synergises best with Mental Defence.

Confounding Suggestions is better when taking staff becase of the extra source of Daze. Empowered Illusions would be better with Focus because fewer sources of Daze unless taking Mantra of Distraction.

Well of Precognition is the dogs kittens (lol weird censor) – so so amazing to use. Third utility slot is a toss up. I like Decoy for another stunbreak but Portal or anything else is an option.

Time Warp is totally superior to Gravity Well. My biggest beef with Gravity Well is that it does not play well with interrupts, because the only possible chance to interrupt is on the initial knockdown – once floated an enemy won’t be interrupted for the final Pull. So I don’t like it unfortunately.

I sometimes trait Medic’s Feedback because it’s a useful trait in teamfights.

I agree that the encouragement to spam in continuum shift is stupid.

However I don’t believe raising the cooldown is the answer – that will just make players feel too cautious to use it often.

Instead I think limiting the number of skills that can be cast in continuum shift might be an option – for example 3 skills maximum, then you “break the continuum” and revert to your original timeline.

A few things:

I believe Alacrity is perfectly fine with 0.75s base on shatters, and any significant duration being instead gained by taking Improved Alacrity, which I also believe is fine at +50% duration.

Chrono’s defence comes from having normal defensive cooldowns recharge faster (ie blurred frenzy), so I believe nothing needs to be changed here.

apharma.3741:

<edited out to minimise viewing>

Woah woah woah – nothing to see here devs, NOTHING to see!

Yeah, shield blocks have allowed me to stop crying over the loss of old Mimic bubble shield.

And it doesn’t require any silly things like catching your own bouncing projectile to block…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWnknBlph1fCOqBEgilTj6sKiirjMAWggqOar2tF-TJxHABXXG4k9HE7UAAwTAAA

Well of Precognition is god kitten sexy.

I love it!

Yeah agreed.

The trait setup is also much more glassy than other lines (ie chaos) so it’s pretty easy to die if you kitten up.

Shala.8352:

style.6173:

Condi specs are ANETs solution to those who can’t play zerker.

THIS.
why even bothering on playing condi mesmer when you can play burst? the answer is: you cant play burst berserker.

lol nice assumptions…

More like “I don’t want to play zerker anymore” because it’s extremely one dimensional.

I spent well over a year solidly addicted to gs+sw/t zerker shatter, but in the end it just became boring. Maybe I just burnt out on it, who knows.

I used to be a die hard zerker fan, absolutely hated condis and bunker builds.

But in the last 6 months I’ve seen that condi offers a lot more interesting flexible play than zerker tbh, and can be a lot more fun.

Oh wow, play this if you haven’t played it yet.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAreWlknhy0YhawRNwtGLPH1ZBEAHW9gmoLK6ilPHAA-TJRHwAm3fAZZAAnCABPBAA

The synergy between Chronophantasma, Persistence of Memory, Mental Defence, the new pDisenchanter, Improved Alacrity, Echo of Memory and Deja Vu is amazing.

The phantasm generation rate is insane. :o

I’d rather see Cry of Frustration be given 1 stack of torment per illusion for 6 seconds base.

And leave MtD at one stack.

This provides one Condi “burst” shatter button in F2 without making every other shatter button into simple faceroll for huge condition stacks.

In addition to this, the Confusing Combatants trait can be restored instead of the Fury trait – which will not benefit people running Dire or anything ridiculously tanky with low precision in wvw as it requires crits to proc confusion. It will also benefit non native condition weapons allowing greater variety and flexibility in builds.

I believe those two changes would be a good start to making Condi shatter competitive while maintaining some constraints on gameplay.

Embolism.8106:

Also, please stop conflating PU with Condi Mes. They are NOT the same thing. If you have a problem with PU say it. If you have a problem with Condi Mes say it. Don’t say you have a problem with Condi Mes when what you really mean to say is you have a problem with PU.

And really, PU Condi Mes is one of the worst Mesmer builds for sPvP, worse than non-PU Condi Mes.

The bolded part so much.

Sure many people use the PU trait when playing a condi build.

But there are so many more condi builds that don’t use PU. When we get Chrono I bet there will be even less condi mesmers using Chaos outside of wvw roaming. Because I personally believe Illu/Chrono/Inspiration or Duelling are far more useful and have more to contribute than the extended stealth+boons.

Nevermind hybrid builds…

Nier.8741:

All a PU Mesmer has to do is pay attention to dodges, and they can cast shatters while dodging.

I’m really surprised that these two facts are overlooked by these bad mesmer mains. I don’t even play Mesmer and Mesmer is braindead easy.

I wonder what Mesmer does on a hard class like grenade engi or non-long non-GS Warrior though. No offense either but most Mesmers kinda fail on Thief too.

For the record my primary alt is a marauder melee ranger. gs + sw/axe although I play around with the offhand.

Mikkel.8427:

Condi mesmers don’t kill anyone, they just give people the opportunity to kill themselves.

lol, I’m saving that for posterity. xD

TheGuy.3568:

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

1 and 2 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

---

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

Coming from a war/thief/ele/engi player (assuming that’s what you play based on your sig), I deeply appreciate your post.