Guild Wars 2

Just gonna drop this here, but this is probably one of the best, most comprehensive dungeon thief guides around. It covers a wide range of builds as well as how to use them in dungeons:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/87167-a-guide-to-the-thief-meta/

Cynz.9437:

i think the main problem with engis is that the only vailable game mode is capture point so one way or other you are kind of forced to fight on point or close to it and engis are really good at locational fights

not to mention they have quite build diversitiy, including condi tank, add huge range on grades that allow engi to kill treb from far or pour death from above on point while standing on edge….. yeah~

i might be wrong but it feels like engis are kind of like necros to me, except with knockbacks, dazes, way more tankiness, way more aoe spam and obviously more moblity than necro… maybe that is why most classes find it difficult to deal with them

you kind of have to bring necro if you face team with engis otherwise it’s GG

the real horror starts when engi and necro are on the same team and use confusion stacks + spread conditions…

^ This exactly. If we had game types that didn’t force everyone into a tight ball to fight over a node all the time, we’d have viable ranged specs that would be hard counters to engis.

I really, really wish this would happen. Kiting and fighting with ranged players has an awesome element to it that you almost never get a taste of in sPvP since sPvP is really all about packing in a tight space and blowing up AoEs.

Give us CTF, Give us a mode where we have to defend enemies from blowing up an object (think WoE from Ragnarok Online or defending lords from GW1), give us something like Oddball, or hell, get creative and use the environmental weapon system. Why not have a game type where you have a player on each team turned into a slow moving juggernaut that needs to be escorted to that team’s base?

All we’ve heard on this so far is that ANet “tested” other things and deemed them not fun. I don’t buy that. Look at how long it’s taken for meta builds to evolve into popularity. I mean, remember how long it was until people realized that trap rangers were viable even though nothing changed to buff them? (this is referring to early in the game. Yes, I know trap rangers have fallen out of the meta since then.)

/end side-track rant

But yes, if ranged builds were viable, bomb kit engis would have a hell of a lot more counters.

I vote No. Downed state is awesome and I love the extra element it adds to gameplay. I mean, I love that a fight against a good ranger using the elite spirit can be made or broken on how good the timing of the ranger is on activating the rez as well as how good the attacker is at stunning/dazing the spirit at the right time to prevent the rez.

Venoms arent as much bad as they are ill-suited to the game content.

In PvP, you either stack up venoms to take advantage of your trait, which leaves you without condi removal or a stun breaker, or you bring something to cover that and are left with a lot of traits for a few venoms.

In PvE, venoms can be a good way to stack your group with a lot of might…but you’ll seriously hurt your personal DPS and will stack might about as good as an ele who can do the same task without losing tons of DPS.

Also, while you’re leveling, if you get bored or want to try out a different weapon set, give P/D a try. Outside of leveling, it’s a rather niche weaponset, but while leveling or while solo, it’s pretty strong since you can attack from range, then Cloak and Dagger as soon as a mob gets to you, get some distance, then use the stealth attack. This can be a good tactic for soloing champions or high health veterans.

Lamuness.3570:

Dahkeus.8243:

Actually, as D/D, I use all 5 skills. 5 and 1 are still the bread and butter, but HS is for when targets are 1/3rd hp or less or when you just need to travel around. 3 is an extra evade for clutch moments and a handy clone buster vs mesmers. 4 is an occaisional snare and often a good way to apply basilisk before you opponent expects it. I use 4 with basilisk a lot to stun an enemy before they can contest a point.

However, having your timing right is really what makes the difference between people who pick up D/D for the first time in PvP and shortly write it off and the people who pull it off successfully. Being able to chain CnDs without triggering revealed is often key to winning a lot of fights, particularly since coming from stealth, then landing CnD -> backstab with basilisk is such good burst that is very hard to counter.

Thank you, something I was looking for. Also, D/D in sPvP? I thought that was bad as well because you can’t cap points.

All other posts up to this point were helpful in helping me understand this set better. I realize I was playing it wrong.

It depends on what you’re playing and how you play. D/D is a high mobility build with strong 1 v 1 capabilities. If you’re in an organized tPvP group, it won’t give as much to team fights, but in solo Q, it can be really good for quickly taking points guarded by non-bunkers. If a point is guarded by a bunker, you’re better off going somewhere else since you’ll just end up in a long drawn out fight where they hold capture due to your reliance on stealth.

If you play smart with it though, it’s a solid build with distinct advantages for the right playstyle in the right setting.

Also….do we really need this much deliberation on whether we want to call PW a burst skill or not? lol.

Luto.1938:

Here is a cool trick I found when trying to deal damage to warriors (especially ones with a ton of HP/Regen). Aside from opening with BS like those mentioned before me. Steal from the warrior but do not use the Whrilwind ability right away. Wait for about 25-30 seconds and then Blackpowder > HS >BS. Then do another Blackpowder and use whirlwind in it. This will send blinds in an aoe around you and deal good damage to the warrior. Once that WW is over steal > Blackpowder > WW again! If the warrior is a noob then he will stand in BP, and if not he has to run. If he runs chase his kitten down with WW. Then finish with a couple HS and be accused of HS spamming lol.

OP is D/D. However, you could potentially swap a utility out for Smoke Screen if you are about to engage a war maybe?

Qaelyn.7612:

My first time playing 3 matches in over a week as I decided to take a break.

First match: We lose by a lot, in large part because my team decides to run the orb in spirit watch despite us not having control of more than 1 point for more than a few seconds at any given time.

Second match: Utterly obliterated. I’ve repressed the details but it started out 75-0 and didn’t get any better.

Third match: I zone in to find 2 thieves on my team and 3 warriors on theirs. Went as expected (even though the warriors were absolutely skillless, they just spammed CC and won anyway).

And I said to myself.. why am I doing this? It’s annoying, I can’t find a team to play with, the rewards are better doing pretty much anything else.

So…you lost some games and gave up? I’m not sure what you think will fix this issue. Should we force all games for new players to be wins? Should new players be paired with pros on their team and paired against inexperienced players?

…or maybe the players should just have an ounce of patience for teammates that are still learning the game.

It should be avoided.

Case in point: GW1

Dakarius.3284:

I’m currently running 10/30/30 d/d&SB and earlier today I encountered a warrior I just could not beat in wvw. If I managed to get a successful burst I would only deal a little more than 1/2 of her hp in damage (she was taking 8k+ BS). Afterwards she would just swap to sword, kite away while her health regened to an acceptable amount.

Afterwards she would reengage me but what always would get me is a bolas or a stun. As soon as one of those hit me (after I used SS) she would 100blades me followed by some other move for something along the lines of 22k damage. I’ve only got 16k hp.

how do I fight this kind of warrior as d/d?

notes:
~16k hp
1370ish toughness
blind on stealth
108% crit dmg with food.

Warriors with the right build are amazing at disengaging from a fight. Your best bet is to wait until the war is low hp before using basilisk and using in in a stealth -> basilisk -> CnD the split second stealth drops -> backstab. Also, if you anticipate that the war might run to heal, use dancing dagger early to have the cripple up.

For dealing with stuns, you really have to be good at reading the animations of them and dodging them. If the war is using bolas, then it’s definitely going to be a tough fight unless you’re using Withdraw.

When you get caught in a stun, use Black Powder to blind unless they go into hundred blades, in which case you’ll want to pop your stunbreak.

The fight is tough, but the more stuns you can dodge or blind, the higher your chance at winning is. However, I’d recommend just disengaging instead of fighting if it’s not really crucial to kill them since dealing with them running off to heal is such a pain, lol.

edit Oh yea, I forgot to mention, but Yishis has a very good vid of a fight against a war in WvW with a D/D. You may want to check out the vid as he gives good commentary to explain his actions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEYhovtwBo

With optimal traits, S/P is about 5% lower dps than D/D. This is why the general advice for PvE is to use S/P on trash in dungeons and D/D for single target.

For roaming around in open world, D/D is a solid choice since you have a lot of 1 v 1 fights. The toughest aspect is just handling mobs that turn to face you immediately, which makes getting to their back for a backstab a pain. =P

Wait…why are people saying AA does more damage than PW? Unless you’re against a very mobile enemy that’s running out of the PW damage, PW should be doing much more dps than AA alone (especially with the right traits). You can go to a training dummy in the mists and do one time trial with AA alone, then do another where you spam PW to see the difference.

PW used to be about on par with AAs, but with the last two buffs that decreased the aftercast, it is a lot better.

Xyonon.3987:

Hi thiefs! I just managed to reach lv80 yesterday and now I need some answers from more expirienced thief players.

• the build
  What is a good fotm / dungeon build? At the moment I run 25/30/15/0/0. Traited vulnerability on crit, damag with daggers, vita based on precision, pistol dmg, +20% damage against <50% HP mobs aswell cleanse on stealth.
  Is this good enough? Any must have traits??

Yea, that works, but unless you’re using P/P on a ranged fight, I wouldn’t recommend that talent. If that’s how you’re using it, then you’re good, but just be aware that it doesn’t work on all dual skills, such as Pistol Whip.

Also, if you can get by without the condi removal, then consider putting 15 in Trickery for Thrill of the Crime instead of putting them in Shadow Arts. This will give you significantly more initiative to work with and will increase your dps while also giving your group solid boons.

Personally, I just use Signet of Agility and Hide in Shadows for condition heavy fights, so I’ve never found that investing in Shadow Arts was worthwhile.

Xyonon.3987:

• the weapons
  It seems like DD/SP is the best in general, DD/PP for single target bosses but I rarely use DP/PD or SD and the shortbow seems to be bad too :s Any combinations I missed?

Yea, you pretty much got it. However, the short bow can be good for AoE trash, particularly if it’s very spread out. P/D is really for condition builds and they’re generally less effective than power builds in PvE. D/P is really a great PvP weaponset that is probably one of the worst sets for PvE. S/D is also pretty weak in PvE, although it can be marginally useful against some mobs with boons.

Xyonon.3987:

• the skills
  Can’t decide between stealth heal and signet to heal. Also wtf is wrong with this new healing skill? It heals less than the stealth heal on a longer cd without stealth nor regeneration… wtf??
  Utility Skills seem bad at thief. I mostly run signets and sometimes this sexy cloak skill, projectile absob wall and the blinkblink stunbreaker with a huge cd if required. But all the other skills seem to be very bad. Am I right? :o

Sadly, the new heal is pretty bad. Unless you’re running a full venom share build, it’s straight up worse than any other heal we have and if you’re running a venom share build, then you’re holding yourself back by running a venom share build. =P

However, I generally use either Hide in Shadows or Withdraw. Withdraw is worth considering since it has such a short cooldown for a good amount of healing while also being the only instant heal in the game. However, the condi removal and extra stealth from HiS is great too.

Xyonon.3987:

• Sword + Pistol 3 very op or bugged??
  It says I stun the enemy and then go frenzy with many hits on cleave. Sounds great but why the hell do I allways get invulnerability when I use it!? It’s like Blurred Frenzy of the Mesmer! Is that a bug? Cuz i just can spam it 4 times and kill most mobs without caring to dodge.

There’s an evade with the skill that’s not mentioned in the tooltip. And yes, it is a very awesome weaponset. Overall, the D/D set is the highest dps set for single target, but if you’re cleaving even 1 extra enemy, S/P blows it away. I believe S/P is only about 5% lower dps than D/D with the appropriate traits (Combo Critical Chance, and Combined Training included).

Xyonon.3987:

Thanks alot thief friends! I hope I get some answers ^^ greez

I hope these answers help. =)

Swimfan.8014:

Omg, thanks for all the comments and suggestions so far, I’ll read through them one by one later today
Started my thief anew (didn’t like his appearance and he was just level 22 anyways).

I met a professional thief yesterday who assured me that d/d is possible even in dungeons (that’s what I was most afraid of: That I would be way to bad to do d/d there) and that he/she runs full berserk – nice. He uses shortbow more or less just to retreat really fast which is bascically the way I wanted to play all along.
Wonder how thief will work out. I get why many people didn’t like their thief-run (ini is so diffrent from normal cd) but imo he suits me perfectly fine. He needs combos and skill like ele but unlike ele he’s not a 100-buttons-class (not needing to change my attunment every 2 seconds really helps).

Really excited to try thief now – see you ingame!

Awesome! The class is a ton of fun. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have, but it sounds like you will. =)

Lamuness.3570:

Viking Jorun.5413:

You’d be completely wrong, and your assumption that sword is for spiking shows your inferior knowledge about the class. Sword is designed as a sustained damage weapon, while dagger is a burst damage weapon, meaning that sword builds are made to stay in the fight and keep pressure, while dagger is a get-in-get-out spike weapon meant to quickly take down already pressured opponents.

Secondly, D/P has far to much reward for its very little risk, while S/P, S/D, and D/D are balanced to the point where a skilled player will shine when using these, and many top-tier PvPers stray from D/P due to its low skill ceiling and inability to hold a point.

D/P in WvW, however, is extremely good due to its high access to stealth on demand without the necessity of an enemy to gain it from, ala CnD. In this facet you would be correct, but this is a PvP discussion. I’m sure you’re trolling by telling experienced players that D/P requires far more skill than S/P, S/D, D/D, and even P/P. It’s laughable, really.

EDIT: Also, anyone running S/P who mindlessly spams 3 is going to die very, very quickly. Maybe you should try something other than your canned D/P build to expand your horizons.

So which is it? I hear that D/P is good because you use every skill on your bar. Whereas D/D you use 5 and 1 occasionally 2 and S/D + S/P are both LOLMASH3. I’ve been running D/P in PvP / WvW / PvE, and am currently experimenting with S/P, but I can’t get the survivability / damage as I can w/ D/P. 3 takes too long to come out, and 5 doesn’t seem like it helps w/ sword very much. I don’t get any useful combo fields unless I’m forgetting something.

I will be trying S/D next in PvP / WvW, but for now it seems like S/P isn’t my playstyle.

Actually, as D/D, I use all 5 skills. 5 and 1 are still the bread and butter, but HS is for when targets are 1/3rd hp or less or when you just need to travel around. 3 is an extra evade for clutch moments and a handy clone buster vs mesmers. 4 is an occaisional snare and often a good way to apply basilisk before you opponent expects it. I use 4 with basilisk a lot to stun an enemy before they can contest a point.

However, having your timing right is really what makes the difference between people who pick up D/D for the first time in PvP and shortly write it off and the people who pull it off successfully. Being able to chain CnDs without triggering revealed is often key to winning a lot of fights, particularly since coming from stealth, then landing CnD → backstab with basilisk is such good burst that is very hard to counter.

ChapDev.7650:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What I’m wondering is that the thief didn’t switch to shortbow while in stealth and bombard the area with with Chocking Gas. The poison would have reduced the healing efficiency of the Engi plus the poison damage.

I would bet, that Thief is one of those who spec condition duration over condition damage.

It is possible he is using his weapons similar to how I do on my thief.

I do not take a Shortbow at all I just use a Pistol in slot one and a Dagger in slot two and use the Pistol with a Sigil of doom for maximum poison uptime (Poison on steal) without having to waste initiative to help battle Warriors and Guardians.

I wouldn’t be surprised since the short bow doesn’t shine nearly as well in a 1 v 1 scenario as it does in a team fight.

LuRkEr.9462:

Elxdark.9702:

Class : teef

1) one shot eles
2) condi engi
3) necros

Eles shouldn’t be on your list as thief… dodge burst they unload and you win lol

Yea, I’m surprised to see that up there too. Bunker eles can be tough for a lot of thief builds, but generally the glassy eles are some of my favorite targets.

Also, I have a feeling that if trap ranger ever made a strong comeback into the meta, they’d be at the top of a lot of thief’s lists.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Dahkeus.8243:

To give you an idea of how long this build has been around, check the date on this thread:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83957-tessa-averys-swordpistol-shortbow-daze-burst-build/

And even then, it wasn’t radically new. This was just one of the first good guides outlining the build.

(Props to Tessa Avery for their awesome contributions on Guru)

If you look at the post i made, you’ll see the guide is from july 28th, which is shortly after into the mists added the guide section. when i made my 2 guides there were almost no thief guides on the site, so i made a wvw and a tpvp guide to get things started. I have dueled Tessa often in the past and I definitely think He/She is a great player, and has a very similar build to the one i use.

I’m not sure I understand what point you’re making….

I’m not saying Tessa was the first to post this build. I know I had seen this build around before Tessa’s post, but this was the best example I could remember of the build being posted a long time ago.

Thieves Guild is a cheesy passive I WIN button. Sure, it’s not massively OP, but it’s very strong in 1 v 1 scenarios and requires no thought to use.

Daggerstorm is strong for reflecting projectiles. Yishis has some videos showing this using intelligently in duals vs some classes (like engineers).

Basilisk Venom as the single worst stun in the game? Not sure where you get that. The short cooldown makes this awesome for anyone using Lyssa runes, but even without, it’s a solid stun that can get a kill when you use it at the right time. There’s a reason this is pretty much the only elite used by high end tPvPers.

Thieves Guild is such a cheap elite for duels. =/

To give you an idea of how long this build has been around, check the date on this thread:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83957-tessa-averys-swordpistol-shortbow-daze-burst-build/

And even then, it wasn’t radically new. This was just one of the first good guides outlining the build.

(Props to Tessa Avery for their awesome contributions on Guru)

Discordia.7293:

The build is wrong. We not use signet of agility, side strike and combo critical chance for tPVP

We not use energy, air and paralyzation.

But nice try for kill puggies.

Side Strike and Combo Critical are fine. There’s several traits that you could swap in for them without really making much of a difference, such as Furious Retal and Practiced Tolerance.

Energy’s not a bad choice for any PvP build and is fine since the short bow is often something you swap to when you decide to dodge out of a team fight to AoE from range. Of course, Fire or Bloodlust are also solid options.

Sigil of Air, I agree, isn’t great since Sigil of Fire does almost the same damage while also hitting in AoE.

Also, I agree that sigil of para is pretty weak. There are worse options, but since the last nerf, the stun duration is pretty negligible.

Swagger.1459:

you heard it here first folks! I think it would be a great idea to have a death match mode so we can analyze professions better and come up with stronger suggestions by highlighting how inadequate professions and combat currently are. win-win!

amazing suggestion huh?

Inadequate in death match isn’t necessarily inadequate.

ens.9854:

That tiny reduction is huge, lets the evade start sooner(increased evade uptime also), increases overall DPS and actually lets you get hits in on a non CC’d player even with a “shorter” stun. It turned a situational skill with worse DPS than aa into one that I have no hesitation to spam even when being attacked.

It is pretty obviously massively better than it was, and even top players talk about/are running it now.

It’s a good skill, for sure, but it’s not massively better than it was. It’s a .25 second change and a .25 change was made before without being considered “massive”. The biggest difference is just that S/D is in a bad state and so players that had held so tightly to the meta builds they were running before are just realizing that there are other good builds too. I ran S/P plenty before this buff and it’d didn’t become miraculously better over Dec 10th. It was good then and it’s good, but a little better now. However, the meta mentality is what makes people think that this is suddenly some amazing discovery, lol.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Class: Thief

1. Tanky condition engineer
2. S/S Longbow Condi tank warrior
3. Another Thief

^ Agreed with this, but I’d put either PU mesmer or DPS Guard in spot 3.

ens.9854:

Dahkeus.8243:

The meta is so funny…almost nothing changes to make S/P better, but suddenly, everyone thinks it’s awesome now.

But pwhip just got massively buffed and is spammable now?

I’ve gotten some hilarious 1shot pwhip kills with 25/30/0/0/15 and passive assassin signet, so that’s a thing other builds can’t really do.

It’s too bad haste sucks now

There was a tiny reduction to the aftercast (the same amount of reduction was introduced in the past and it made almost no difference to the meta) and there was a very small buff to initiative, which helps other weapon sets just as much.

At the same time, the stun is much smaller than it used to be (paralyzation sigil nerf) and before that change, it hadn’t been popular since the really early days when it hit like a massive truck.

W/e dude, I’m not going to forum argue with you on this, especially since I see you getting so worked up about it. If you believe this heavily on perfect absolutes in PvP, go for it.

I think what you mean to say is:

In an ideal situation where you have the right team makeup and reliable teammates and know that they can pop stability, then just blind and let your teammates stomp.

But not everyone is tPvPing all the time with a reliable group.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Dahkeus.8243:

If the downed ally is in the middle of AoE, then a stomp isn’t viable, but to never stomp in a team fight? I can’t say I agree.

Don’t EVER stomp in a teamfight, EVER. That job is relegated to teammates who have some form of stability/invulnerability. Your job as a thief when a person is downed is to make sure no one resses that person. You can do that in multiple ways. you can shortbow 4 the area and cleave with shortbow 2, if there is an engie spamming nades then you harass him, if you see a warrior using banner animation then you interrupt via headshot, if you see someone ressing with stability and your steal is available then you can strip the stab and interrupt. There are SO MANY better options a thief can do when someone is downed other than stomping. Thief’s roll is to deal damage not to take damage. Do what a thief does best.

Dahkeus.8243:

Regardless, another method to consider when you need to get a key enemy down in the middle of a ton of AoE is to Shadowstep stomp.

Then you blow a critical cooldown skill on something that another class can easily do better. There are far better options other than a thief stomping in a teamfight.

It depends on your team setup and how coordinated your communication is. If you’re with your guard/war and you’re on TS together in tPvP, then yea, this is fine, but if you’re in Solo Q or you’re not in a teamfight with people that can tank like this, then no, you shouldn’t always pass up on stomping.

For cleave damage, almost anyone else on your team will do better than you will with a short bow. As long as you have your poison field down, let someone else cleave. If someone goes to rez, then yea, you can focus on kicking them, but the beauty of thieves with a trickery build is that you can interrupt while you stomp (steal).

With maps this tiny, is it any surprise that the game ends up like this?

The meta is so funny…almost nothing changes to make S/P better, but suddenly, everyone thinks it’s awesome now.

Melchior.2135:

lilrambo.1386:

Can someone just link the newest meta build, I’ve been looking but can only find that its 10/30/0/0/30, what about trait slots, skills, weaps, and sigils?

Doesn’t look like anyone’s interested in sharing.

It’s been posted frequently and you can probably find it in at least 3 threads on the 1st
page. =P

Chicago Jack.5647:

Don’t ever, and I do mean ever, stomp in a teamfight as a thief in spvp – this is a BIG nono. Thieves rely on their mobilty to survive. The three second “stun” when stomping is a thief killer in a team fight. Instead its more important, pop down a blackpowder and move on to pressure people trying to cleave the body or interrupt those trying to res him via banner or ranger spirit. Also, always try to apply “cleave” poison via shortbow 4 around the downed body. It will significantly increase the res time.

Also, one of the best plays you can make as a thief is when a teammate is down and an enemy is in downed state at the same time. Plant your shadow refuge to invis your ally and invis the teammate stomping the dead body. Most players will ether try and cleave your ally or their friend. Ether way, you’re in a really good position and most likely will be able to res your teammate (via stomp) and down the enemy.

If the downed ally is in the middle of AoE, then a stomp isn’t viable, but to never stomp in a team fight? I can’t say I agree.

Regardless, another method to consider when you need to get a key enemy down in the middle of a ton of AoE is to Shadowstep stomp. Start the stomp animation, then shadow step far away to a safe place while you continue the stomp animation, then return right as the animation completes. This is particularly effective against Guardians as well since it will put you out of range of their bubble knockback.

Mosharn.8357:

Its time this got what it deserves. No atk skill that has evade should be this spamable. It costs 4 init dodges and cripples. It is stupid how spamable.

No i did not lose to it. Its just a stupid thing to have. Every thief that fails hard with his/her back stab whips this out and goes 3333333. Its dumb and can be easily spammed. If you spec for a high init build this thing is stupid.

Remove the dodge and just leave it for the cripple.

This would be a dead skill if it only cripples. I mean, it’s not exactly a highly used skill as it is, but I can’t think of a single reason to spend the initiative if all it did was cripple.

Hey Shakya,

If you choose to go with D/D, consider 30 in Shadow Arts. The biggest reason for this is to get the talent that blinds on stealth. Blind are very effective at saving yourself as well as your allies and they are also important for pulling off stomps against enemies since they can’t interrupt your stomp if they are blinded. However, if you prefer D/P, stick with the build you have.

As for overall tips on playing thief, I would recommend checking out Coloxus’ Tips and Tricks video. I would also recommend checking out the videos that Killchained put together which explain tactics for stomping each class. One of the things that thieves do best is pulling off stomps against enemies. Because of our blinds, stealths, and teleports, we can often land a stomp when other classes would be knocked down, interrupted, or would simply miss when the enemy ports away. Here is a link to Killchained’s videos.

ens.9854:

Jakkson.4076:

30 in CS is a waste IMO in TPVP…you get more out of putting pts in the acrobatics line…compensate with gear and runes and you wont miss the crit chance and dmg loss much…and you will be much better at tsaying alive and slippery…you want to max out your boon efficiency you get from the trickery line and initiative management is key…

Better overall for you and your team…

Don’t listen to this guy, Dee Jay hit on the the two main builds, those should be your starting point. I disagree that s/d is easier though, it is very easy and effective to burst people from out of sight/range using d/p before they can do anything. In general the burstier builds are easier because fights should end quicker and you don’t have to worry about accruing value slowly for a long time.

Both builds have quirks/techniques that are probably better to be shown than explained… Just drop in a 1v1 server I’m sure some1 will help you.

Edit: sword pistol is fine, even excellent in some situations, but it just feels awful when somebody has a build that countered it (stability, blind, block, daze or stun when hit, protection when disabled…. Etc etc)

^ I’ll second this. 30 in CS is the cornerstone of the best tPvP builds.

And yea, S/D tends to get a reputation for being easy since many people don’t understand the build and just see tons of evasions, but to play the build well, you really need a good understanding of evade frames and initiative/endurance management.

Also, yes, S/P is fine, but beware Retaliation! That boon is brutal against pistol whip.

It’s the same stuff that people have been running for a long time, lol. The most popular builds currently are D/P 10/30/0/0/30 and S/P with the same trait setup. Some people have been picking up S/P again, which wasn’t too popular before, but the only difference is that the after cast after the pistol stun on pistol whip was reduced a tiny bit.

I’ve seen some people that still run S/D, which still seems to work ok, but it was nerfed pretty hard Dec 10th, by no longer allowing you to retreat while stunned with sword #2.

1: What mode do you prefer

(pvp wvw or Pve)

sPvP followed closely by PvE with WvW last. However, I often use my guardian for dungeons in PvE.

2: How long have you been a thieve?
(beta, presale, launch , last year, this year. [hours if you want])

I’ve played since beta, but switched to thief about a year ago I think.

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
(shorter periods , longer periods, about the same)

Not sure I understand…I play the vast majority of the time on my thief and play about as much as my life allows (I work a full time job, am married, etc. so I can’t always be online).

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

(yes / no ) why?

Hmm…I’d probably enjoy the class more now. At launch, stealth would drop aggro, which was annoying. Balance in PvP was also a lot worse and while it would have been fun for a bit at first to be able to just heartseeker spam to victory, it would get lame fast.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
try to be as direct about why if possible

yes / no

Overall? Yes.

That being said, there’s plenty I disagree with. Also, just because I agree with the direction doesn’t mean I agree with the implementation. However, when considering their overall perspective of balance and the goals they want to meet, they’re on the right track. I mean it could be worse. Look at what Jumper proposed for balance and he’s one of the top tPvPers, lol.

Other relevant information: anything you think is relevant to your answers
(my answers are bold, to save space)

Well, I think balance is much better in PvP than PvE. There are classes that are clearly better to have in a group than others (compare a Guardian to a Necro). Thieves aren’t in a great position for groups since they tend to be squishier than other classes and bring little more than solid dps, whereas a Guard can bring dps that’s pretty much equal while also bringing tons of reflects, stability, condi removal, fire fields, etc.

There’s no easy way to fix this without breaking PvP, but I personally think that PvE dungeons should be changed so that there’s more steady damage instead of just big hits that are avoidable to make non-dps focused builds and support viable. I also think that blind should be a damage reduction instead of a chance to make a hit miss on bosses. This would make it so that there are more viable builds for PvE and so that the other utilities that classes bring are helpful as well.

Yup, #1 mistake a lot of new warriors make when fighting thieves is to just stand in the black powder circle and keep swinging. When a thief does this to you, stand just outside of the circle. Your melee attacks will still land if you’re close enough.

Just be aware that when a thief casts Black Powder, you will get hit with a shot that blinds you as well. They also have a teleport skill when using D/P that blinds you as it ports to you.

In most cases, you’re better off just spamming fire on the ground with the longbow when fighting a thief anyways, lol.

Personally, I almost never use SR to stomp. If I’m X/P, then almost every stomp is done with Black Powder.

If you use SR, you can still get knocked back by Guard’s #2 or Engi #3. You can also get hit by a chained Thunderclap if you have an ally nearby that isn’t stealthed. The only time a stealth is really better than a blind field is when you’re 1v1 against a mesmer and no one else is around for them to target for their port.

That being said…I think venoms are still very weak compared to other options and SR does still work very well for stealthing allies to rez or for sneaking past enemies to back cap. It’s also one of the best escape tools for getting away from losing fights and can often save you from dying if you drop it right before you get downed and teleport away with #2 downed skill after the ring fades.

Personally, I use this a lot at the start of Forest of Nifhel to hang out waiting for enemies to get their beast at low health at the start of a game so that I can jump in and steal the killing blow.

I haven’t run into a 4 v 5 in a long time…

weird.

Changes don’t make a lick of difference to me. =P

Whoah, take a deep breath buddy. You’re getting a bit riled over some pretty trivial stuff. If you really don’t think this guy can handle melee, then whatever. Feel free to think that way. It worked for me and many of my friends who leveled thieves.

Other classes hit just as hard as thieves and have just as much if not more burst. Hundred blades, whirling wrath, etc. If the rest of the group is hitting like a wet noodle, yes a backstab may pull aggro. Never had any issues with aggro myself though.

And just because I suggested 0/30/0/15/25 as a defensive option doesn’t mean there aren’t other defensive builds too. Personally, I think a SA build is a waste in PvE since there’s a big loss of DPS compared to other alternatives trickery, but it’s a valid option as well.

Either way, no one’s trolling you. If you disagree with me, then cool. Make your point and move on, lol. You don’t need to start making accusations that I’m somehow inexperienced or that somehow my experiences are invalid just because they’re different from yours.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

^ do some reading. Burst really matter that much.

Yes, I play a thief. I’ve played sword specs, dagger specs, etc. in fractals and every dungeon in the game. A backstab doesn’t make that much of a difference in aggro.

You can step into melee if you’ve gotten any decent understanding of the game. Thieves are squishy and yes, you will die at times while learning, but that’s how you learn.

0/30/0/15/25 is defensive because of:
– defensive stats from Acro investment
– Feline’s Grace giving the extra dodge
– Bountiful theft giving vigor

This gives defensive tools without being a huge sacrifice to dps. If you need more defense than this, wear some valkyrie gear. While under level 80, pick up pieces with vit and/or toughness in addition to gear with precision/crit damage/power, but just avoid condition damage and healing.

The OP isn’t new to the game, he’s new to the class. Playing at ranged will teach no more about how to play the class than running on his guardian will.

If you want to optimize for damage, here is what you should go for:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY8alUmCOXcS5E95Ex2jdqTe6f4r6MwZLB-jgCBYfDimgAmoAgsAkKAKzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIq2erIa1SBExyI-e

Swap Dagger Training for Combined Training and swap Critical Haste for Combo Critical Chance to maximize damage when using S/P.

D/D is your weapon for single target, S/P is your weapon for multiple targets.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

D/D is really bursty and will give you troubles in dungeons or world group event because as soon as you deal that back stab, you gotta run because you just took aggro and will die in one swipe.

My suggestion, for a less painful leveling, is to reserve Sword main hand for boss fights since your damage is regulated by the slow attack speed and will not pull aggro as long as you manage your damage output. Having high DPS typically means that you will die a lot since you’ll be pulling aggro left and right. So save your D/D set for mobs that you can kill quickly and use sword for a longer fights or when in a group.

Umm…what? No, that’s not how it works. Aggro is something that’s factored by a large number of factors, including toughness, current health, etc. Damage is a factor, but you’re not more likely to get aggro simply because of one ability doing a bit more burst than your auto attack.

The only reason a sword will prevent you from getting aggro is simply because it does less damage. If you’re in a bad group where your dps is so much higher than the rest of your group that you’re primarily holding aggro, you can simply start dealing less damage and you’ll accomplishing the same thing as running into the fight with a sword.

Also, you don’t need to stick as ranged while you learn the class. If anything, you’ll learn the class faster by jumping in as melee because sitting at range won’t tell you what moves are deadly to melee and which aren’t. If you’re too squishy, just wear some more defensive gear (Valkyrie or Knight stats) or change your spec to have more defensive traits. 0/30/0/15/25 is a good defensive spec to use if you’re worried about being too squishy.

Yea, this is one of many options on the gem store that has been particularly disappointing. I mean, it’s ANet’s loss since this is just another missed opportunity to get some of my extra $$$, but there’s no way I would drop gems on something like this.

The idea of buying tattoos for gems is fine with me but 1) this design is terribly bland and 2) charging 500 gems for something like this that couldn’t have taken more than 10 minutes to create for every race really puts a dent in ANet’s credibility.

So, yea, ANet is free to put whatever they want on the gemstore and if it’s a bad item it won’t get sold, but when there are blatantly overpriced, low quality items like this, it makes a serious blow to the game’s reputation.

…but…it is fun to PvP in GW2. The PvP system is not perfect, sure, but the core mechanics are really fun.

Yea, agreed that SA isn’t really a stellar trait line for sPvP, although you could do much worse. For a good D/P build, consider the trickery build that is generally considered one of our best options:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVE8nTIbP6pKkn8eQWjlZpVgmA-TUAg0CnMsYBx0CA

For heal, use either Withdraw with Lyssa runes (lyssa runes will cleanse condi) or use Withdraw with something like Ogre runes.

For utility skills, you have a lot of flexibility. Shadow’s Refuge, Shadowstep, Blinding Powder, Infiltrator’s Signet, Signet of Agility, Shadow Trap, etc. are all good options. Just make sure to have at least 1 stunbreak.

As far as using the build goes, don’t focus too much on backstabs. Lead attacks keeps your auto attack strong while your ini is full and the blinds from #3 and #5 are both the core of what keeps you alive. Steal is also a clutch ability in the build since it’s a source of damage, healing, boon stealing, daze, and of course, getting the stolen bundle. You can do some really solid lockdown on something like a necro by using basilisk, then stealing once the stun wears off, then fearing with the stolen ability.

Very little has really changed for thieves in PvE for a long time. Most of the changes affected PvP more and in particular primarily affected the S/D acrobatics build that was popular.

With traits, the CS tree is primarily the dps backbone for any direct damage build. Having 30 in CS to get Executioner is what you’ll find in pretty much any good PvE dps build.

The current meta for thieves in PvE dungeons is generally to take on the role of a glass cannon DPS. You get the maximum DPS by using D/D for single targets or S/P for multiple targets using a 25/30/0/0/15 spec, but since thieves are so squishy, you may want something with a bit more defense.

Investing 15 points into acrobatics is an easy way to get a lot of extra survival since you can pretty much dodge 3 times in a row with Feline’s Grace. You can also put at least 25 points into Trickery and get the trait Bountiful Theft. Bountiful Theft will provide vigor and the 25 point investment will get you Lead Attacks, which is a big boost to DPS while you keep your initiative pool as full as possible.

Also, get a good set of dual pistols for when you run into single target encounters that aren’t melee friendly as you do more dps with P/P than with short bow on single targets.

Hope that helps.

jingkangtan.6752:

is it me or is the picture really tiny

Click to zoom.