Guild Wars 2

They should all be locked in the cellar and whipped until they sort out the specific bugs each player deems is the most important!

Yes even those that don’t have the skills and knowledge for those specific problems! How dare they work on things that they actually know and are employed to do!

Of course you have the issue of each player having a different opinion on what needs to be done first so they should do them all at the same time!

Unless Anet is really badly managed the fact that they have people working on stuff like SAB and on cosmetic “fun” items (yeah I hate the plus too but meh) doesn’t suddenly mean they aren’t working on other things.

What it does mean when the specific thing you want is not coming out when you want it is a) its low priority b) its a much more complex issue than you think or c) your expectations are outside of reality and even a team of 200+ people working on the problem wouldn’t manage to get it done and out in that time frame.

Now if your issue was that people are working on Plush quaggan backpacks rather than working on Awesome Backpack of Death skins then your slightly more valid, but then it comes down to what Anet wants to put in, the best we players can do is suggest things and state how much we’d like to see it.

PvP is all about the Ifs not about the Cans Which is something a lot of people forget.

They see something happen against a specific type of player and state this as “A thief CAN do this” when its really “A thief can do this IF”. Or they work on theoretical numbers such as the fact that backstab CAN do a 20k+ hit, conveniently forgetting that this is only IF all the factors (many of which aren’t actually possible for a thief to achieve by themselves) happen.

The other one thats mentioned lots is a thieves ability to escape/reset, yes they CAN do this however they can only do that IF they don’t get hit by a lock down, IF they don’t get burst down themselves, IF the target looses their position, IF they have room to escape in the first place and so on and so forth.

Unfortunately WvW wasn’t meant to be balanced around by anets words, and even there a thieves strength lies heavily in their targets court, if that entire zerg cannot kill the thief or lock it in place with all the different ways to CC someone between their stealth (not to mention DURING the stealth at times for those who have managed to keep track of things) then its not just the 3-4 seconds of stealth thats making them “overpowered”, this is also the reason why many people can escape zergs with stealth or without.

Then of course you have the “roamers” who go around solo or in partial teams who then get attacked and die but then again the zone is not designed for those people so while a thief is potentially powerful against them (again depends entirely on the target really, if they know the thief mechanics then its not the thief mechanics that are strong its the player playing it) it comes down to doing something that’s really not intended by either side.

Thief is very very player skill dependant on both sides, take out those factors and thief mechanics are actually very weak, low damage coefficients, low staying power, lowest defense in the entire game.

Start adding them back in and it really comes down to the players, in a 1v1 stealth technically becomes the weakest it will ever be in a fight but the thief itself will be the strongest they ever get, with no one else distracting you from the thieves actions it becomes really quite easy to keep tabs on where the thief is and where they are going which lets you land hits on them while they can’t hit you, however should the thief land its damage with no support that high burst can be the winning factor.

In small group fights stealth becomes the strongest it will ever be but the thief overall becomes much weaker, with people distracting you its hard to keep track of the thief but at the same time you have lots more CC, AoE and ability spam that can take them out accidentally while the thieves attack power isn’t sufficient in those situations, they can potentially down 1 of your glass cannons but outside of that they are below average at dishing out damage to the group and generally a liability as while they may have taken 1 target out they themselves can be taken out just as fast if not faster.

In massive zergs both stealth and thief power plummets, while theres lots to distract you from keeping track of the thief the sheer AoE and skill spam plus the massive burst potential once they pop up can (and should in good groups) mean the thieves death, while the thief again can take possibly 1 person out in a burst build if they are also glass cannons.

Of course there are non burst thief builds that have much better staying powers but those builds no longer have the stealth power of the burst build AND are still technically much weaker than others doing the same.

depends on the food/buff and the situation they are referring to, for the most part there not that powerful in the majority of situations.

Only ones I can think of that were that overpowered was something like omnom pie on a high health warrior and such that then used whirling axe and could fully heal themselves while still having fairly decent defense outside of the pie (the pie also making them do a lot more damage)

But at the same time that buff was perfect for a low defense thief utilizing multi hit condition builds and really really weak for anyone utilizing singular slow but damaging hits.

Of course it got nerfed based on the happenings of the warrior like situations which weakened or out right ruined it for others that were getting a good use from it without it being “broken”

It will be your WvW bonus.

As your server gains points in WvW certain bonuses are gained that effect all players on that server, one of these is health bonuses.

Press b to open up the WvW window and you should see the list of all the bonuses your server currently has.

Im wondering if the OP might not find it easier just to go out and buy a fishing simulator game…

I’ve never seen an MMO game of any sort incorporate fishing in a fun and entertaining manner.

Well josh stated each item slot will have 2-3 different items in it and dataminers have already found the monkey nail bat and the flaming super sword that someone mentioned are going to be future items making appearances.

devaking.2397:

Dasorine.1964:

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

yes but not the changes and improvement that the T kitten uggesting

Heck no, the moment changes with so little thought like that make it in the game even for a class I main is the moment I leave and don’t look back :P

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

Ekemeister.8905:

Aberrant.6749:

This would be far to strong…

As opposed to far too weak? Like we are now. I don’t see how this is more powerful than engi’s gadgets, guardian virtues, warrior burst, or death shroud. Care to offer thought or constructive criticism as opposed to a mere complaint.

Replace refuge with blinding powder, and this idea is genius. Refuge is buggy and constricts player to an aoe to get the full effect. This idea also frees up utility slots so the class can do more to help a group.

Its the difference between them having class skills designed to work with their own limitations to this suggestion which is just “I use x y and z utilities almost exclusively, can I please have them for free so I can use other utilities without giving up the utilities Im currently using”

Steals strength is hard to measure, at its very base level its a 45 second shadowstep to the target at its strongest its a 1.5 damage hit that applies poison, buffs the thief and its team every 30 seconds and allows the thief to utilize powerful moves such as consume plasma.

Personally I wouldn’t say no to some additions to the fX mechanics for thieves but just slapping 3 of daecollo’s favourite utilities (and I dunno, deleting the 4th but who cares they don’t seem to use it) isn’t the way to go as it will either be too powerful (it would just be 6 utility slots for thief) or it could be really weak (moving them to Fskills but massively nerfing them to keep things balanced meaning we loose 3-4 powerful utilities in return for 3 weaker but “ok” fskills in return)

If they were to add things to the thieves fskills it would ideally both work around whats currently there and not require sacrificing things we already have.

For example:

F1: Steal (how it currently is)
F2: Stolen Item (After stealing the most recent stolen item goes here instead of over F1 allowing you to see the cooldown without burning the skill)
F3: Improvisation (Draws a random weapon out of your stock of stolen items)
F4: Improvised Weapon (Uses the recently improvised weapon)
F5: Hidden Pouch (Opens a window that lists all currently owned stolen items)

This way you can steal up a stock of items as you go along, if you favour a specific item you could stock up heavily on that, you can then draw the items out randomly at a later date to use so you can open up a fight with an improvised weapon ready at the start.

Each stolen item would have its own cooldown dependent on its own power rather than relying on steals cooldown allowing adjustments to steal so you could possibly use it more often while certain skills like mug could be transfered to say additional damage on item use/next attack after steal instead and such.

tbh what makes the sigils bad is not what they are but what the game lacks, there is no reasonably tough content that has a focus on a specific enemy type that you’d want to redo enough to make a weapon set exclusively for that.

currently the best you get is the regular dungeons, but other than maybe CoF1 how many people actually redo the dungeons regularly beyond farming for an armour set they like?

that would be 4875 over 30 seconds they missed out the 30 in the last 2.

Though the omnom pie cooldown is 1 second not 2 so if you managed to trigger it every second you’d get 9750 healing + damage over that 30 seconds, though with only a 66% chance on crit your unlikely to hit it every cooldown.

its less having your cake and wanting to eat it too (as thats understandable if I have some cake I want to eat it) but more wanting your cake, and everyone elses cake to yourself for free for no reason other than you like cake.

Asura also have the advantage of being pesky little things to target manually

You could try s/tPVP

Unfortunately thats sort of how MMORPGs always work, once you hit top level your either grinding for endlessly small increases in gear, taking part in the PvP offered by the game or stick around for the social aspect of the game.

Travlane.5948:

steal life isnt extra dmg. just heals you that part :P so if every hit you do does 1000 dmg and then you pop a ghost….now you steal 200 life per hit too….you still do 1000 dmg but get healig200 hp. i COULD be wrong but long time ago this is how everyone explained it to me!

No it does the damage as well, if your doing 1000 damage a hit and you proc the life steal on crit effect of the omnom ghost/pie you will do 1000 damage + 200 damage from proc and gain 200 health.

You can still get a bit of healing and damage bonus every second or so but they are far far weaker than they used to be, you’d most likely gain more by using food to up your damage further statically instead

Was almost screaming when they didn’t hundred blades the downed mesmer during the stealth stomps :P

Dare say if they had 1 more stun or CC you’d have died during those fights, but was a well played warrior for sure considering you had all the advantages at the start.

A thief would either get 6 utilities, with 3 of the strongest and generally most used ones for free (one seems to get deleted)

Or if they toned em down due to their movement to passives thief would get 6 utilities with 3 of the most used/strongest utilities nerfed down to the point where they are no longer really wanted etc.

So either thieves get a massive boost to an actually unfair level or thieves get some of their best skills nerfed for no real reason.

Because having access to almost an entire skill set on top of utility slots wouldn’t be too strong? Imagine if elementalists had access to cantrips AND the rest of their utility slots…

Sorry but just like so many of your suggestions its just not that well thought through nor balanced in anyway.

Outatime.5183:

Hmm how many stacks of bleeds can this put on me? even if it was 10 seconds I still can’t figure how I got killed so fast :/

All I know is he hit me from behind I tuned he hit me again I hit him and then I was dead lol

Gah bleeds are a rangers worst nightmare :/ only have these 3 skills to remove conditions

Sneak attack can put upto 5 bleeds, however he only ever hit you with 4 consecutively so your looking at 7 bleeds max during that encounter (4 sneak attack bleeds + 3 autoattack bleeds) the 4 sneak attack bleeds would start dropping as they applied the next sneak attack unless they ran heavily with bleed duration.

So theres really a few options here:

A) You were not full health at start and the fight lasted longer than the 3 seconds.
B) You jumped off a cliff and died from fall damage at some point during the fight
C) There is more than just that little bit of combo log
D) The thief is hacking making his bleeds hit for over 2k each or such.

I like to wait for thieves to stealth and then kill them in it when im playing my other professions :P

technically you can get an effective power of well into the 9k+ region if you calculate in stuff like the +crit chance on the side and back trait (which the calculator adds in automatically yet executioner isn’t) and the odd fury.

But you have to remember in those cases you only hit that effective power in the few specific circumstances so keep that in mind when your using the effective power.

And yeah you’ll eat a lot of dirt with that build the moment people start locking down your evades

It basically comes down to your preferred playstyle and how you want to build it.

Solo PvE is fairly easy and straight forward as soon as you accept you will have to use your heal skills now and then, outside of that all professions can solo pve.

If you go for the high burst backstab thief build right away you’ll have a harder time at first but once you start getting traits into your stealth it soon becomes a good defense against the npcs and such.

Just keep in mind that you can’t face tank things like you can with say a guardian but you do get stuff like stealth capping skill challenges to make up for that.

technically I think the connection was meant to be that the gunk is basically the grease, oil and all the other dirt that an engineer would have from constructing, add to that the effect of the gunk which is a series random conditions over time which is basically what a pistol pistol engineer does…

The links tenuous at best but I quite like the gunk

hence why I stated condition crit hybrid :P

No thief love for the thief rune! :P though guess very few people tend to like condition crit hybrid builds

I’d kill for protection :P

they where in the south west area standing on the boat that tequatl destroys when they land.

But yeah, going AFK or such in area’s populated with monsters even if they aren’t initially agroing you is your own fault, heck some area’s you may feel initially safe to go AFK in but due to dynamic events they may not be when you get back, tequatl for instance will smash the boat and then fear you down from your invisible perch if your still AFK there, most likely killing you, the camps in harathi are always being flipped etc.

I don’t know of any MMORPG that really gives you this option of going afk in area’s where theres a good chance you’ll be killed and then making you invincible…

Its not needed, if you go afk in a dangerous area thats a risk your taking, it may not be something you have any say over (answering the door/phone etc can often get you killed at inconvenient times) but in general its up to you to park your character in safe area’s not for the game designers to let you, specially not if it opens up a world of exploits (I can see people AFKing in WvW keeps all day invincible so the other side can’t really take it)

Heck if you afk too long they actively kick you out the game anyway, maybe they should do that much sooner?

comes down to higher chance at critting, or high damage when you do crit.

well as 5 scholar + 1 divinity already does more damage than strength with 1 might stack adding a might stack to the 5 scholar would just do even more damage.

Though bear in mind the calculations being used by taril are very basic and are at best a rough estimate of the power (as its not factoring in anything like crit chances and such)

Actually keeping might up constantly for the strength rune to work is also not that easy a task for a thief without doing some really silly things

thats because warriors generally don’t build like that because they get more use out of doing other things, thieves don’t really have much option.

Throw into the fact that people seem to focus more on thieves than anything to the point where they blame a thief for a death that the thief couldn’t possibly be responsible for (such as one time an elementalist burst someone down I was running at and they blamed me for their death surrounded by explosions and lightning).

Then of course you got all the people that have no issues with thieves and don’t care if they can potentially do a reasonable burst because they are so easy to kill for them, its just they rarely come to the forums to state so because they are happy having fun in the game.

If this is so terribly unfair and overpowered I really do suggest you play a thief yourself and go do some higher level sPvP or such and see how well you can do with this potential 1 kill a minute build.

And of course if you get to decide no one should be able to do burst damage like this in game then surely I can decide no one should be able to spawn loads of clones, put down portals, haste entire groups etc etc as well? Or is it only you that gets to decide whether something you personally dislike regardless of how it actually works is wrong or not…

problem is if you not seeing the thief going into stealth/using his combo (as in walking into 900 range) then your unlikely to see that warrior at a longer range casting the spell.

Throw into that the fact that afterwards the warrior is still there with lots of stuff they can do, that warrior that has managed to get within 900 range and get the combo off you now has nothing left and is essentially a free kill for the next 45 seconds, if their combo is stopped (well timed dodge other defensive moves etc) then they’ve accomplished nothing and still don’t have anything else then can do.

Stealth lasts for 3 seconds at base, so thieves are not permanently invisible its highly unlikely that a thief can get in to burst you without being visible at some point, the moment they are visible you can take stock and come up with a counter play, if they are D/D you know full well they are going to be going for the steal into backstab as soon as they get into 900 range allowing you to start defenses and such.

A thief simply cannot one shot from stealth without a team buffing him up, at best they can three shot you from stealth but with plenty of times where it can be countered.

Technically a warrior has a better chance of 1 shotting from stealth than a thief does he would just need a team mate to set the stealth up for them.

smokebomb is the 2 second stealth downed state skill.

you cannot move while in it other than the 1 teleport you get so unless that takes you far enough out of range its not going to do anything.

Zephyric Reaper.3049:

How about this. When you stealth mobs have the “aggro range” the same as if they weren’t attacked. That way if you run away the mob will not chase you FOREVER AWAY. And if you stay close, which is the ideal when you want not to break aggro, then it doesn’t break. It’s the most logical thing I could think of.

That means smokebomb is still essentially useless :P

well the fact that you didnt see the thief turn the corner, see you and then stealth/warp means the actual period of time you are vulnerable is much greater than the 1 second (which only possible in the most optimal conditions such as you facing away from them and standing perfectly still).

Which means a warrior could have turned the corner and cast kill shot before you noticed them, a mesmer could have their clones up and heading to you before you notice them so on an so forth.

The moment the steal hits you can counter as well, you take damage: react with a roll, this could dodge the CnD it might not but you’d then be aware of them and they’d be out of position for the backstab etc.

the way your stating it went down makes it sound like you where standing still with your back to a path to your area with no defensive skills up or such. While the thief will have had sigil stacks and probably even might stacks from team mates to hit that level of damage.

Well with my way the boss would only reset if you both stayed stealth for 3 seconds or longer and such.

Though could amend it to only remove you from the list if your the bottom of the list or such, but really if your down to 2 people against a boss and you decide to hide in shadow refuge for a long time the boss SHOULD reset.

because thats just mug and backstab, no cloak and dagger and no one else fighting them!

plus a 14k backstab is extremely hard to get and will most likely have required team buffs and such to get. And yes classes should be able to do that IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO UTILIZE ANY DEFENSE.

You cannot expect to remove all your defense and not utilize and sort of defensive boon or mechanic and NOT die to other peoples burst and again the thief wont just be walking around in stealth constantly, they’ll have spotted you and gone to stealth for the 3-4 seconds to hit you that means you have time to spot him.

Considering how many other classes could hit bigger numbers without spending that time closing, heck a killshot would probably have hit you for over 20k hp from 1500 range coming out of no where and giving you no time to react.

And for the /bow stuff… well its sPvP you essentially did the /bow the moment you entered a match, put some defense on, utilize some defensive moves and start being aware of your environment like a proper pvper should.

depends how you mean reverting the aggro table and such.

Stealth not dropping aggro at all is silly but stealth instantly dropping aggro can be equally silly.

Ideally you want a bit of both, going stealth doesn’t instantly drop aggro but staying stealth does.

If the aggro table is anything like other games threat tables its a list, upon stealthing a thief could drop down 1 level on the list (so if they had the aggro they’d now be second and the person in second place would now have the aggro) and drop 1 place every second with the third second of stealth removing you from the list all together.

If your the only person on the table then you don’t move position until the third second which then clears you off it.

the 1 divinity probably isnt as good as a 6th scholar is the point they were trying to make.

Though thats debatable as it takes very little to drop a thief below 90% hp

technically deleting your own bleeds isn’t really a damage loss unless you’d be able to do some other form of attacks that wouldn’t apply bleeds that would do more damage than the bleed applying attack, instead its more refreshing your oldest bleeds so you keep 25 on constantly as long as the bleeds are up they are all doing the same damage per second regardless of how long they’ve been there, as others said though if your hitting 25 stacks lots due to long durations it does mean you can probably drop a bit of duration for something else thus increasing your damage simply due to higher stats rather than the not replacing bleeds.

In groups its first in first out as Panhaura says, if the group is capable of putting more than 25 bleeds on everyone relying on bleeds in that battle are going to do less damage as they fight for bleed spots replacing each others bleeds and so on, this is an annoying mechanic of conditions in this game which is why many people focus on the pure direct damage builds instead.

This also happens for the other conditions albeit in a slightly different way, if you have 2 people that can keep burn up impermanently and they are both attacking the boss, the durations stack and the person with the highest condition damage will tick their durations first, but because they can maintain it permanently that means the other person will never get a chance to deal damage with the burn, if neither can maintain permanently it will tick the highest damage duration first then the other persons.

the problem is your trying to work out % damage increases, unless your taking one damage amount as base and referring your % damage increase against that every time it is all diminishing in terms of % gain.

Taking Weths example, if your base damage is 1.0X with the 50% crit rate your damage is 1.5X thats a 50% increase, if you then go to 100% crit rate and not have 2.0X damage thats a 100% damage increase against your base damage of 1.0X but not a 50% increase from the 1.5X.

Yes this also works for power, if you have 2100 power, 21 more power will then give you 1% damage, however if you add another 21 to that 2121 it will give less than 1% increase to the damage you where doing but if your working with 2100 power damage being your base at all times it comes out as 2% more damage than that base.

So if your trying to work out % increases in a non diminishing way you have to choose a specific damage as base and refer to that constantly or realize that you need to work on actual damage gain rather than , if your set on working with stating % damage increases I’d recommend using the complete base stats of 916 power, 916 precision and 50 critical damage as at 80 you cannot go lower than that, if using those as base 9.16 power = 1% increase over that base damage.

I wish it was better considering, 1.5s stun is really quite low and with a 45s cooldown is a bit meh, considering other stun skills stun longer, have shorter cooldowns and aren’t elite.

Thats not to say its useless but generally I take daggerstorm over it for most situations, projectile reflection, high group damage, stability.

I dare say there is also syncing issues, if your movement is too fast in combat you end up getting to the point where your taking hits from things far away or hitting things from across the map or such.

a mug and backstab isn’t going to be enough to kill anyone in that combination realistically psybunny unless you get really lucky and the mug drops someone to 50% hp or less the HS is going to do no real damage, but for a mug to drop someone to half health you have to be perfect glass (with situational boosts) against a glass thief/ele/guardian, the second two of which have to not have their boons on at all, but again thats glass cannons killing glass cannons, anyone who actively removes all defense from their build or runs around as an uplevel really can’t complain when someone else kills them.

iNaddict.8021:

DrixTrix.7168:

iNaddict.8021:

renss.5764:

sword/dagger has mobility, sustained damage and control where d/p has high burst damage and a bit more stealth.

d/p has burst? what? you mean chain heartseeker?

i think he’s referring to Backstab more than heartseeker chaining as you can chain stealth with black powders combo field, and gain a ton of control as it’s also a blind, its a patient playstyle, not a ‘’mwaaaaahhhaaa dead’’ playstyle. unless i have got mixed up ofcourse.

however once at and below 25% then of course, heartseeker will dish out some damage.

The only burst i can think of is when you land HS (if they are low hp) after a combo field then BS.. that is rare in pvp situations… it is not reliable.. BS by itself, i wouldnt classify that as burst..

I still stand that as a thief. our only burst option needs mug (CnD to some extent too).. that kind of suck..

Backstab itself is actually really quite low damage for a big hitter, it has a coefficient of around 2.4 and is usable at best every 4 seconds, thats not a lot considering warrior axe auto-attack skill are a total coefficient of 4.9 with the last part of the chain being a higher coefficient than backstab on its own and cycles every 3.6 seconds, heck even a necromancer dagger autoattack chain is 2.8 coefficient and a much faster cycle rate, so backstab by itself far from powerful.

Technically out of the mug+CnD+BS burst chain the majority of the damage is potentially coming from the mug+CnD (totally 3.0 coefficient), the exceptions would be for low crit rate builds utilizing hidden killer and +crit damage armour which of course means overall the damage is going to be much lower.

clearly this is how you should start the bar brawl game once they finally put it in

Well there are a lot of those threads around somewhere, not sure which is the best I’ve read, a lot often seem to get bogged down in some faulty maths and/or assumptions or statements.

The most common issue I’ve seen lately in these threads is people often work on the basis that 21 power = 1% damage gain, which only works if your basing the base damage off of 2100 power at all times.

If your ok at maths and such I’d recommend grabbing the 2 formulas and trying to work it out for yourself, else I think: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Value-of-Precision/first#post1851776

was the latest discussion I saw about this.

bhagwad.4281:

swinsk.6410:

MrForz.1953:

bhagwad.4281:

Wake me up when other classes can one shot GCs without warning and at range.

Well, even an Engi’s Static Discharge Rifle build can do that, if you really want to open debates.

Mesmer with s/p + shatter and illusionary leap.

This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.

Would really love to know how to 1 shot people and how to make sure they can’t possibly see me coming, please explain.

Stealth isn’t permenant, at least not without burning all your initiative and cooldowns and thief skills have some of the lowest skill coefficients in the game (beaten only by people who have conditions or AoE attached to almost all their skills)

So to get to someone with no chance of them seeing you, you have to be using up all your resources just for walking around, to do the damage you need to chain together at LEAST 3 skills which in ideal conditions takes 1 second but conditions are rarely ideal and is more 2-3 seconds with 4 seconds being the absolute limit before its “failed” all of which is ignoring the fact that you don’t have the cooldowns or the initiative to actually pull it off because you’ve been “unseen”

So yeah… clearly ONE shotting with no way to know they are around…

Of course no one else can possibly come close while having more overall use! nope! no one they can’t do more damage over a similiar average time period or with less set up and none of them get defenses and sustainability to stay AFTER the burst to mop up anyone else, thieves truly are unique and totally OP [/sarcasm]

Ulysses.4765:

Why the kitten do people complain about thieves perma stealthing? If a thief is doing this in a battle they ain’t doing kitten in terms of damage.

Not to mention while they are doing the 1.5 coefficient hit every 4 seconds they are totally vulnerable to any damage that happens to come their way, which if you know when and how they are going to restealth is quite easy to insure there is a lot of.