Guild Wars 2

Not to forget… in gw1 you could actually switch between regions… that’s something that have always kittened me off with gw2, I’m originally from Europe and living in the US now and Id like to play with all my friends… welp can’t.
Still trying to understand what’s technically that hard to host instanciated stuff like fractals for two regions at the same time.

If you’re that much better… why don’t you make you own raid team?
I mean, clearly Im pretty sure that every commander here wouldnt want someone who simply doesnt follow orders just because they think they know better (your own argument can be used against you).
If your ego becomes a waste of time and a source of tension, people won’t want you. And there’s really no point showing off for escort… it’s literally the level of a dungeon with less boring mechanisms.

And it’s tuesday and… still no patch…

From what Ive seen, toxicity tends to happen before people get on TS/Discord whatever, once we can all talk to each other, it’s usually a lot more civil.
I’ve joined two different raid teams with very different experience (one is more experienced than the other) and both of them accept pugs, and both of them do training runs and both of them don’t require a perfect meta armor/weapon/trinkets.

Just get in a nice guild, maybe you’ll spend a bit more time on raids each time, but at least the experience with people will be pleasant.
(that and drinking raid parties :x)

Azukas.1426:

Deihnyx.6318:

Azukas.1426:

yes I try to talk strat before every game depending on our comp

I switch classes and ask ppl to switch as well. I try to discuss opening split. I talk about a plan if we get rekt and how to counter what they are doing.

I’ve had multiple “PUGS” discuss strats and come up with a game plan. It’s ranked and expected.

Teams that actually discuss strategy : one out of 6, maybe 5 > almost always win
Teams that don’t discuss strat but just say home 5 out of 6 > 50/50 win
Teams that have a whiner: almost always lose.

Now obviously I don’t have the exact numbers at the top of my head but that’s what Ive experienced, and I went as far as Diamond. I’m certain that people in legendary are better at communicating, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Just like I don’t like people trash talking other players in low level fractals, I don’t like people trash talking in low level pvp divisions, this is the same problem, people need to learn.
And leading a group almost always pays off.

Also @Alin: Would you say that trash talking is okay for any competitive sport irl? How does that make it more of a “right” because it’s online?

You have no numbers or facts to back up your statements. You literally just made that kitten up.

I also got the ascension out of nowhere then? While it’s not a proof of being a good player, it’s definitely a proof that I had to spend quite a few weeks doing pvp. But you know what, whatever.
It’s personal experience, it’s not meant to be backed with numbers, even if I’d come with the exact statistics and ratio of win/lose related to toxic players of my next 20 matches you could deny them, so there’s really no point.

And it doesn’t matter at all, if you choose not to believe that, there’s no ground for discussion.

Azukas.1426:

yes I try to talk strat before every game depending on our comp

I switch classes and ask ppl to switch as well. I try to discuss opening split. I talk about a plan if we get rekt and how to counter what they are doing.

I’ve had multiple “PUGS” discuss strats and come up with a game plan. It’s ranked and expected.

Teams that actually discuss strategy : one out of 6, maybe 5 > almost always win
Teams that don’t discuss strat but just say home 5 out of 6 > 50/50 win
Teams that have a whiner: almost always lose.

Now obviously I don’t have the exact numbers at the top of my head but that’s what Ive experienced, and I went as far as Diamond. I’m certain that people in legendary are better at communicating, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Just like I don’t like people trash talking other players in low level fractals, I don’t like people trash talking in low level pvp divisions, this is the same problem, people need to learn.
And leading a group almost always pays off.

Also @Alin: Would you say that trash talking is okay for any competitive sport irl? How does that make it more of a “right” because it’s online?

Daddicus.6128:

Perhaps a better idea, Gaile: Introduce a 6/9, and require something like 3-5 15s or 1-2 16s to trade for it (or even more if +6 unbalances things too much).

The reason I think this is better is because your +16 move only covers 16s. What about the poor saps who built even higher ones?

You can break them into +16s and sell them, their price is back to normal again.

There was a new build today, but I don’t see where I’m supposed to exchange my +16 AR …
@Anet?

Azukas.1426:

Deihnyx.6318:

Ruru.1302:

Bad players hurt the game FAR more than toxic players. It’s the sad reality. Although, they aren’t mutually exclusive.

The problem is not whether there are good and bad players. There’s always been good and bad, in every competitive game, be it video game or irl.
But playing in PVP in videogames didn’t feel like playing with children before and it was still fun to play (thanks LoL, thanks rewards!).

- Yelling and insulting never helps winning a game, this is useless no matter what.

- Yes, there are some behaviors that shouldn’t happen in higher divisions, but this is rarely where the worst toxicity happens. When you’re in low division, by definition you will find players that are good and bad, deal with it, if you’re really that good, teach your team what to do and tell them where to go.

- Everyone has to start as a rookie, everyone has to learn. And most importantly: Everyone has the right to play. As stated before, this toxic behavior doesn’t only happen in ranked. “Go back to pve” is pure elitism and just a terrible way to welcome a new player. Rookies can’t leave unranked with the full experience needed for ranked, they need more practice.

- A large portion of the whiners complain whenever they start losing, and not because someone in particular is bad. It’s just how things are, there’s gotta be a loser. But when you lose a fight by a few points, you could just admit this was a good fight and congrats the other team. Fair-play can be nice too.

Insulting is a cheesy way to hide your own lack of leadership (and skill, sometimes). Again, a good player is able to give instructions from the start so that the “not so good players” know where they’re expected. This is infinitely better than flat out insulting them because you think you’re a pvp god.

If you come to an agreement on a game plan and certain players do the opposite……There’s no coaching that stupidity.

Besides I didn’t buy Guild Wars Virtual Coach Edition. I bought regular old GW2.

Oh come on, how often do pug groups actually talk about what to do beforehand, besides who go home?
You guys take the worst examples while ignoring the fact that they are not the most common, lots of trash talking is actually thrown as soon as a team is losing, just because some people are pro at blaming everyone.

It always surprises me how people think trash talking is okay because someone is supposely bad. It’s not, Internet makes it easier but it certainly doesn’t make it more right.

You also don’t need to be a coach to give advices to help your team win, that just makes you a more adult player and proves with actual facts that you’re good. And if anything, it’s less work than just spamming insults.
Thanks at least some players are actually good at that.

Ruru.1302:

Bad players hurt the game FAR more than toxic players. It’s the sad reality. Although, they aren’t mutually exclusive.

The problem is not whether there are good and bad players. There’s always been good and bad, in every competitive game, be it video game or irl.
But playing in PVP in videogames didn’t feel like playing with children before and it was still fun to play (thanks LoL, thanks rewards!).

- Yelling and insulting never helps winning a game, this is useless no matter what.

- Yes, there are some behaviors that shouldn’t happen in higher divisions, but this is rarely where the worst toxicity happens. When you’re in low division, by definition you will find players that are good and bad, deal with it, if you’re really that good, teach your team what to do and tell them where to go.

- Everyone has to start as a rookie, everyone has to learn. And most importantly: Everyone has the right to play. As stated before, this toxic behavior doesn’t only happen in ranked. “Go back to pve” is pure elitism and just a terrible way to welcome a new player. Rookies can’t leave unranked with the full experience needed for ranked, they need more practice.

- A large portion of the whiners complain whenever they start losing, and not because someone in particular is bad. It’s just how things are, there’s gotta be a loser. But when you lose a fight by a few points, you could just admit this was a good fight and congrats the other team. Fair-play can be nice too.

Insulting is a cheesy way to hide your own lack of leadership (and skill, sometimes). Again, a good player is able to give instructions from the start so that the “not so good players” know where they’re expected. This is infinitely better than flat out insulting them because you think you’re a pvp god.

I’m an average player, in the sense that I got enough wins last season for diamond, but I don’t enjoy pvp enough to try going further, and for only one reason: people’s behaviors.

Sometimes it’s good, whether we lose or not, we have people discuss strategies, hold this and that, or telling someone to do that, okay, that’s actually what it’s supposed to be.
And there is… the other kind of talkative player, the “noobz omg fail team go kill yourself go back to pve etc…” crybaby.
And ultimately today, I had a “go play unranked” after having told someone (who was one of the lowest scores, with that) that whining never help you win a match.

Really? So ranked means people have to show the worst of themselves whenever they lose? This is pathetic and not even remotely true. There’s also a LOT of toxic people in unranked, who believe the world of PVP has to be played by them and only them.

Indeed, if you’re going to waste time talking to players instead of playing, why not giving advices, or telling people what to cap, hold, and stuff? Show that you’re ACTUALLY good and know how to think strategically, rather than brainlessly insulting anyone who doesnt follow your strat (yeah, there are some people who WILL yell at you if you take any opportunity to decap far… only cause you’re not a thief, there’s absolutely no context-thinking with some people and you end up losing because the other team is just smarter and take every opportunity to decap…)

To whiners: You are at least as responsible as everyone else for losing, if not more. Most of the time you don’t even have your own actions to back you up. If you are that good you’re already in legendary division, and probably in a team or in a guild. When you chose to pug, you accept that you’re going to play with random players, good and less good, no matter how good you think you are (or how much you brag about it), it’s never an excuse to ruin something’s else fun.

To Anet: Please enforce your rules, these people are ruining the pvp for a lot of players. It’s a game, and a great one, but having to deal with these people on a daily basis if you choose to pvp is just annoying.
And no, ignoring the chat is not satisfying, it’s an MMO, ignoring toxicity shouldn’t be the rule. Punishing it should be.

OnizukaBR.8537:

They are making fractals engaging and fun content, and each time they are getting better at it ( Congrats A-Net) . How dare they make a video game fun instead of boring?

Because some people care more about what they get out of something (= rewards) than the experience itself. I never understood it but they seem to be legion in modern RPGs.

To OP:
You still have your non challenging fractals, just don’t do T4, it’s really that simple.

littlemunster.1059:

Deihnyx.6318:

So to you it makes more sense to play a video game for its virtual rewards than to … have fun?
Okay, well, I don’t agree lol.

you have fun getting junk when others git gud stuff? lol. ok, i want you in my team to be the one picking all the trash while i git gud stuff. i’m sure all those people farming/grinding are having too much fun. lol.

Strawman…

I never said I don’t like rewards, just that I don’t play for them.
Again, if that becomes a job there’s no point.

skarpak.8594:

my group needs between 20 to 30 mins, never longer and the rotation of fractals doesnt matter. i think the rewards are just right for that.

if you think the rewards aren’t good enough for 1 to 2 hours, then git gud.
(an no, we dont run any fancy tactics, we just play through normally with a group comp and not randomly)

and dont come and say: but pugs!
its not the mistake of the fractals nor the lfg that you can’t get through fast enough.

Hey it’s not pvp, no need to bragg about it lol xD

I haven’t heard anyone in game pretend they do fractals that fast since the last few patches. Maybe there are, but it doesn’t even matter. There’s no timer on fractals so everyone can do them as they please.
With this logic, I could also say : “Ugh please reduce VG timer down to 5 minutes since my group can beat it ! Git guud guys !” No that’s just being elitist.

I personally don’t mind spending an hour on it, as long as the people are fun to play with. I’m not bad, I’m not the best, and I certainly don’t feel like it’s a mistake to play with pugs.

Now, from what I know, there are 2 kind of complains about fractal rewards
- It used to be much faster (whatever you say, new Swamp isn’t as fast as old Swamp, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing, it’s just a fact) so why not rewarding more for more challenging content.
- RNG is mean, meaner than it used to be before Cliffside revamp (here again, a much needed revamp).

This can be addressed by giving a better guaranteed loot for T4 players. Now Anet will decide of course, but in this ocean of complains about the revamped fractals, some of them aren’t completely wrong.

Gambino.2109:

If they want to keep this fractal the way it is.. they need to up the rewards… cause I simply don’t want to work triple overtime just for the same junk I was already making when he was a push over.

You can get good stuff but I agree that doing all 3 T4 to get 3 ectoplasms (it happens!!) is frustrating xD

Maybe a guaranteed ascended mat for finishing all 3 T4 would be good. It involves spending a good hour on it (or more) but it wouldn’t be all RNG.

Whenever I read stuff like “no NOOBz” I tend to ignore them and create my own group.
I don’t care if fractals or dungeons take 5 more minutes of my time to finish because someone isn’t perfect at his job, or because they don’t try to run everything (which btw, with a pug team, is a very good way of actually losing time…) I’d rather play with a friendly pug team than with arrogant people. As long as people getting in won’t lie about what they know or their AR, I’m fine with it.

When you’re actually good, you don’t need to brag about it, your actions speak for yourself. This is even more true in PVP, toxic people are the first responsible for making a team fail, nobody wants to play good with toxic kids.

I swear some people forget they’re actually playing a game sometimes.

Astralporing.1957:

Deihnyx.6318:

Astralporing.1957:

Jerus.4350:

But, anyways, the dev who made the encounter said he specifically wanted to introduce some raid mechanics as a stepping stone to raids.

I’d rather they introduced old swamp mechanics to raids than the other way around. I really hate how that raid content is having impact on the whole game way out of proportion compared to the small group of players it was meant for.

So basically have all raids boss be doable by standing on a tree and spamming skill 1?

… i don’t think anyone has been doing it that way since a veeeeery long time. And even then it was a gimmick making the whole fight actually longer and more annoying.

But, to answer your question, if the alternative would be making fractals more and more annoying just to support a different content made for a minority of players, then yes, i’d rather see raids made into a joke. Less people would be negatively impacted by that.

And maybe they’d stop causing damage to the rest of the game then.

They didn’t damage anything. They improved it, what is annoying for you is more challenging (and so: fun) for me. You can disagree on the notion of what is fun or not, but that’s why we have different fractal tiers, if you want easy content that has just been released, there are lower tiers of fractals, and the whole LS3. Now if tomorrow they add that level of challenging content into Living Story, there’ll be ground to complain.

Tiers are here for a reason, higher tier means harder. If you try swamp at lower tier you won’t have problem.
It’s perfectly normal that not everyone is good at a fight after only a few hours/days after release, it would be depressing if it was.

The game already offers a LOT of casual content, having raids and highest tier fractals as challenging is not too much asked imho.

Astralporing.1957:

Jerus.4350:

But, anyways, the dev who made the encounter said he specifically wanted to introduce some raid mechanics as a stepping stone to raids.

I’d rather they introduced old swamp mechanics to raids than the other way around. I really hate how that raid content is having impact on the whole game way out of proportion compared to the small group of players it was meant for.

So basically have all raids boss be doable by standing on a tree and spamming skill 1?

littlemunster.1059:

Deihnyx.6318:

I do think that those out of their mind are players who play everything only for rewards, not even for fun anymore.

you can’t be serious? you don’t play it for rewards? i do and anyone who says otherwise is straight out lying.

So to you it makes more sense to play a video game for its virtual rewards than to … have fun?
Okay, well, I don’t agree lol.
Rewards are a stimulation that makes you stay longer on a game but if they ever become the only reason I play… I’d be worried.

If I want to play for rewards exclusively, I have something called a job.

T4 is not for casuals anymore, I don’t see what’s wrong with it.

(btw I’m still convinced that even a casual who wants to learn will do it fine)

Stajan.4581:

Anyone who says they love the new fractals is straight up out of their minds. Chaos is a ok fractal but is a little to long take out the frozen area and we are good. Swampland is out of control and needs to be revamped again get rid of the adds or the spirit form you can not hurt him but he can hurt you plus at the end he has that stupid huge attack the kills everyone if your not standing with a whisp, look we get it you did not like swampland it was to easy but that is no need to make something this crazy kitten stupid hard on T4 ppl are going to stop doing this fractal if it is not changed and I mean soon. If I’m not the first or if iam I will nto be doing swampland again till it is fixed.

I do think that those out of their mind are players who play everything only for rewards, not even for fun anymore. Old swamp was one of the fractals that weren’t fun to the slightless and was only played for rewards.

They fixed it.

What was the point of a boss where you could pretty much spam 1 for 5 minutes and get the kill?
No really… out of our minds?

Of course people are gonna have more issues the first few weeks, just like they had with raids, and even fractals the first few days. It takes time to learn a fight (not even a lot with swamp…), that’s what makes it interesting. It’s not impossible, it’s not that hard, but yes, you play T4 fractals, you can’t just play brainlessly anymore, otherwise there would be no point of having different tiers of fractals in the first place.

First time I played VG, it took me 3 days to get my first kill. Now we get a kill with at least 2 minutes remaining in the timer. Well if that would have happened day first I would have been kittened, this is not the point of a challenging game. Tier 4 is for players who want challenge.

Ramoth.9064:

Hmm i dont remember defending droknar for some reason, i remember thunderhead keep fondly though!

Riiight, that’s the one I was talking about, I know it was somewhat around Droknar xD

maxwelgm.4315:

It has been asked for (to make use of GW1 lore be it things our heroes actually did or not) since the very release of Fractals with the Lost Shores, and yet what we got for new fractals were all from Living World 1 and 2, if even. GW1 lore is a gold mine for fractals but for some reason it was possible for 5 people to dish out three raid wings with 3 bosses each and unique mechanics that were so good they got copy-pasted everywhere else, in the span of few months, while we have the same fractals since ever and got a Lego one to boot. /rant

It’s a shame really, but maybe it’s going to the right direction now? I mean they brought back some enemies from GW1, there’s hope…

leeloo dallas multipass.

I like the idea of just showing the level of AR instead of the mastery level.
If you’re not 80, you most likely won’t have enough AR anyway.

Same, I think the revamped fractals are good. Swamp was way too easy.
The highest scale should imply some challenge, otherwise what’s the point of even having scales in the first place…

I have about half of the collection, and I agree, while I’d appreciate a non RNG way to at least get gold relics, It would push me more to do fractals if there’s was something to get out of the collection. I love the idea of a gold ad infinitum, as there aren’t many gold backpacks.

Hello,

With the release of LS3 there is one thing we know now, GW2 is surfing on a wave of nostalgia, and it’s great

A couple years ago, we were told we might be getting an Abbadon fractal. While the Chaos fractal is great and offer some challenge, I think that there’s a lot of content in the original Guild Wars that would make fun fractals (and would let us listen again to the fabulous musics of the extensions that arent in gw2):

Prophecies:
- Defend Droknar against White Mantle/Mursaat: Every early GW player remembers it, this mission used to be hell. Having a fractal where the only point is defending a fort could be fun and would scale with difficulty quite well. Plus it’s kinda in the theme with the current events.
- Thirsty River: A mission in the Crystal Desert: Defeat 6 teams of enemies, with increasing difficulty, if you don’t kill their priest in time, the enemy team respawn. This mission was quite original.
- Dhumm: Dhumm was amazing, Dhumm need to come back as a fractal/raid boss with some of its mechanics.

Factions:
- Battle against Shiro and his Shiruken: Repeating some of its mechanics (you get tp to another location and must hurry to get back) could be fun for a fractal boss.
- Kuunavang: Maybe as an alternative boss for the jade ocean fractal?
- Maybe something related to the tensions between the Luxon/Kurzicks?

Nightwall:
- Mallyx and his margonites. I mean come on, Mallyx is now know by everyone as a skill for revenant, how about fighting him again? If not in a fractal, at least in a raid?
- Palawa Joko: Battle of Jahai
- Reproduction of Consulate Docks, with Varesh Ossa as a boss.

Phoebe Ascension.8437
How do you explain then that some of us got him in our first few tries?
Personally I didnt even know there was a new boss until yesterday, we wiped once. That was all to understand the mechanics. Actually no… One dude told us what would happen at 25%.
It was a 100% full pug group, no prep time, and it was not at reset time where you usually find the best fractal players.

So either some of my group were very good, or some of your group were very bad.
We had lots of people down, including one that would go down a lot more than the others, but that was it. We’d get someone down, we would pull the boss as far away as possible and rez, once thing you can’t do with raids.
Once you understand its moves, he’s not that complicated to dodge.
Bring survival, more dodge/invincibility. If you did that as you said, maybe have the others do it as well. I don’t know, I really don’t get what’s so hard about this boss.
Maybe it’s a little bit too long, but compared to the extremely boring old swamp boss, this one is refreshing. Guild Wars shouldnt be just about rewarding a player for doing nothing. That’s what the old Swamp was about.

About Snowblind it makes even less sense… previous fight with the elemental was confusing as frak, and the final boss was ridiculously easy AND slow to defeat. They fixed both of these issues, what is wrong about it now?

T4 is getting closer to the raid difficulty, this is what GW2 needs.

Just checked and I can still build infusions up to 16AR, wasn’t removed for me.

maxwelgm.4315:

Also, it’s not really that hard if everyone goes a bit more survivalist for that particular fight – I insisted my team brought more heals/aoe boons after our first wipe and we did get it second try.

This is the problem right here. Lot’s of people are now used to a casual/brainless guild wars and aren’t even trying to come up with different builds. This is a result of everyone going “ZERK ONLY” in LFR for a long, long time.

I am glad T4 actually means a bit of challenge now. Not too easy, not too hard either, this fractal is perfect.

You are using the current prices that are also artificial, assuming everyone want to play the TP game and try to sell as high as possible, I don’t have time for this, but let’s assume this is the way of doing it.
A current AR+1 is 2s, Im pretty sure I remember it to be closer to 75c before the patch.
Meaning depending on how long it takes them to add the possibility for all AR levels to deconstruct, the current value of AR+9/AR+10 will have dropped as well, by a lot. The offer will be much larger than the demand, as it was before the patch

You admitted yourself that you know it’s gonna drop, so I really don’t know why you gave me these numbers, also not counting the 15% fee, you know it’s not going to end up anywhere close to this value.

We’ll see how it goes, I guess.

onevstheworld.2419:

Look at the 1st page of the thread. The devs already said they are looking into this. It’s barely been 3 days since the patch so just be patient and see what they come up with. Yes, it should be a fairly easy fix, but this wasn’t a small patch so the various bug fixes are also occupying their attention.

I know, I don’t mind waiting as long as the solution is satisfying. Just answering to the same person who pretends there’s no reason to complain. I am confident ANet will come with a solution to the issue.

@Vinceman.4572
Well first, thanks for making it personal in that last bit, that was rather annoying to read.

Now since we’re talking of cheap things: Can you at least read the beginning of the thread (or even just the title: MERGED) before jumping at my throat and tell me what I should or should not do? Can you please have a look at how many threads there was about AR complains? Thank you.

No, I’m not the only one in this situation, no, I’m not the only one who pointed out they lost the cost of reagent, and I’m not the only one who feel screwed by this.
Why do you even have a problem with it in the first place? How does that affect you?

Because everyone plays with the same rules doesn’t mean everyone got screwed the same way, and it certainly doesn’t invalidate everything. Again, there’s nothing irrational in defending your own case, which is what I’m doing, which is what the others in the thread are doing.
Heck, fortunately we live in a world when such thing is possible.

It doesn’t matter that I can get a huge amount of 9AR, don’t make it sound like I actually “got” something out of it, out of nowhere. We both know it’s not true. I ALREADY had it within the +16. Like you said: That’s cheap!
Breaking it into pieces of 9 WILL BE a significant loss because the most expensive component is the reagent. Using the math argument against me ok, but include all the variables then and be fair.

Deihnyx.6318:

Anet hasn’t lower the value, players made it because many of them going the easiest/fastest way possible and that is, tada: To get rid of the 16+s.

Current Buyers > 201g. I am not exagerating anything. It’s not even half the price needed to craft it. I don’t even know what to say to make it a point anymore. This makes no sense economically, because it was done artificially. No point denying that.
The only thing Anet hasn’t lowered is the “number” +16 but they did lower its practical value, by a lot. Again not point denying it, the TP speaks for itself.

Deihnyx.6318:

Stop blaming Anet because it’s absolutely irrational. We have such economy changes every patch, sometimes even without a patch. It is a thing you have to learn to deal with.

As a player, and as a customer, I don’t have to care about what change was necessary and how hard it is to fix things. There are things that are fair and some that are unfair.
This is falls under unfair category, and so it is perfectly normal to complain about it and try to get back as much as we can. Everyone does it when they feel they got screwed, even IRL.
I hardly see how the logic is irrational here.

I really don’t see the point of defending this kind of change that ultimately put everyone at risk to have their time/gold/money spent wasted by some arbitrary change.
Give us warning that it’ll happen eventually, make the change progressively, but don’t screw people like that. I think that’s a fair complain.

I usually stand by Anet side on a lot of things. I love the game and I understand the difficulties they’re having, but on situation likes this I will blame Anet if they don’t fix it. That will translate by a loss of gems for them. You don’t think it’s a rational request. I think it’s perfectly rational. Let’s agree to disagree and let’s move on.

A T4 boss that can be mastered within the first week of its release would be bad design imho, the fact that some players (not all) are having issues with it in T4 is completely normal. Just master your class, adapt your build, like you did with level 100 (I hope…) and it’ll all be fine.

I’m all for making T4 harder, as long as the rewards get a bit better too. Or give us a T5 specifically for raid-oriented players who enjoy hardcore stuff.

Adzekul.3104:

77 is not the place for “hardest non-raid content in the game”. Maybe the raids are over-complex.

Except it’s not that hard. Maybe a bit long for a fight, but not hard.

Like everything else, people just need to get used to it. Maybe it’s time (THANKS FINALLY) to stop using full dps build and think evade and survival.
Level 100 is easy peasy too once you understand that.

It’s like the Chaos boss. Ive had some people in my group complain cause they don’t have enough dodge. Well the game gives you some ways to get more, some skills give you a few seconds of invincibility. First time obviously is hard cause you don’t know the mechanics, but after a few tries, a good player knows that he has to adapt his build.
That’s what T4 fractals are for.

Because you have a pay attention a bit more doesn’t mean it’s harder… just less boring.

Again, this loss is caused by a change in a mechanism, this isnt the same as an item losing its value overtime.
It also couldn’t be planned like it would in a normal economy, no fair warning, no legit loss of demand either. I shouldn’t have to worry after each update if I’m going to lose a huge part of my account value, most people are at work when big updates happen.

I don’t even see the point of being greedy about it. It doesn’t cost them anything. Just let use break agony and get back the materials. No loser. What’s the point of frustrating a part of the core fractal players? I didn’t create this bad mechanism, I played by the rules, gave them money on the way, I don’t see how it is not legit to complain about it now.

If tomorrow you spend a lot of gold or gems on a skin that you can supposely only get through gambling (black lion tickets, lots of gems) and the day after they decide to make it available as a drop, and it loses its value, there will be room to complain as well.
Oh wait, they actually did that with baltha/chaos skins…

Don’t change the rules out of nowhere or be ready to compensate people for their loss. It’s really not that complicated.

I’m pretty aware now that I’m not going to spend that much money anymore (and some gems too) on equipment if tomorrow they’re going to make it drop their value artificially without compensation. That also means less money for them.

It’s not nearly as hard as a raid boss. If you get it second of third try and pretend it’s as hard as raids, then you clearly havent spent hours and hours trying to learn raid mechanics.

But this is the consequence of more than a year of brainless “fight” with barely any update. Whenever they try to introduce some challenge, people are not used to learn mechanics anymore…
Swamp used to give you rewards for free, now you must deserve it.

A T4 fractal is meant to be hard. I am GLAD the two new boss (Chaos Boss and Swamp boss) and Snowblind boss offer a bit more challenge than they used to.

Fluffy.1932:

Am I correct in my understanding that using 5 +16s was so that you can stat cap? In other words people with those infusions would have had +5 power +5 agony infusions or the like already, or were planning on making some? Because if that is the case then those infusions would get upgraded to +5 power +9 agony if I understand it right, which would offset the loss of the +16 in the amulet.

Yeah. 14 * 5 > 70
which required 5 * +16 (80) to get to 150.

This was how things were. And for a very long time we were told it was either 5AR/5Stat or 7AR/0Stat.
It all changed in this update. And while it makes things simpler yes, it’s basically saying now we’re changing the rules of AR, so we’re gonna make it easy, oh I’m sorry you already managed to max with the previous system? Well tough luck.

At the minimum, Id like a system where you can sell an agony infusion and get the value back in reagent cost. There’s still some loss but it’s at least something.

Vinceman.4572:

Sorry, but I don’t have pity on you. Also the comparisons you made are not conferrable and don’t make sense.
The value drop has to do with economy. With crafting 16+s you took a financial risk, nothing else. Anet hasn’t patched the possibility to use your stuff, you still can. Everytime a patch has been implemented people in this game are losing gold. Now it’s your turn, get over it.
You should better be thankful that they have upgraded your 5/5s.
Finally, agony progress is still there and it was meant to go from 0 AR to 150 AR. The 5/5s were a gimmick not a serious thing for progression, a pure gold sink for almost 0 impact, if you believe it or not.

…Not asking for pity, maybe a bit less arrogance, it’s not because you are not concerned that all of us who are just should swallow it.

The value drop is artificial, it has nothing to do with the economy but Anet’s decision to change the change the rules of its own system… again.
A normal value drop is an item that is new and rare, cost a lot of money, and that gets cheaper and cheaper in time. This is normal economy.

You want another example?
When the new HoT legendaries came out, they offered a system so that people who spent money on legendary gifts that were not used for these legendary to get back all the components for them – all of them. And they could still use that item too but it just wasn’t fair for these players.
Are you going to tell me this isn’t the same situation now?
Do not alienate the core players by being greedy with them. I think Anet did a pretty good job so far fixing these issues, and I’m sure they’ll come up with something here too.

Ultimately, you’re right, tomorrow they could make ascended stuff not as good by adding a new level of rarity, even after saying they wouldnt. Crafting an ascended piece of armor is also a risk, isnt it?

Well let’s agree to disagree here. I won’t be thankful for this loss until they give us a way to explode these agony and get back the cost of what we spent for them, exactly like the legendary gifts, exactly like everything that was changed and screwed some people and for which they did something.

Oh and by the way, this is clear that some of us got those items in order to max stat, whether it has a real impact or not is not the point… we’re not discussing whether you think it’s useless or not.

Jerus.4350:

You still don’t LOSE money converting to the new system. It’s just that you spent more back then than you would need to now, which happens basically every patch to someone, there’s always price changes and potential money losses.

Except we’re not talking price change to a crafting item because of a new piece of equipment of whatever. We’re talking of a system change that screws all the players who spent a lot on money to max their characters, using the system that we were told to use.

The price to CRAFT them is A LOT higher than its price at the TP now, do you think that’s normal?
It dropped from 600G to 200G in no time (it was lower than that yesterday). As a reminder, it takes 590G of static cost (the reagent) to craft one.
I’m sorry but no, If I would have been told that this change was coming, I wouldnt have spent so much on 3 new +16 AR a month ago.

Whenever this kind of stuff happened with like, the unlimited gathering tools for example, something was put in place at least.
When skins became account bound, those who spent a ton of money on a second identical legendary got a special title.

This is the same kind of issue here. A consequence of endless refactoring because they don’t know if they want to make high fractals challenging or accessible to everyone.

This is money lost, and directly targetted at the fractal veterans with that.

Agony was supposed to be something you get progressively, as you progress in the fractal scales. Now this has kind of became a stat everyone can get super fast… And that’s after already updating it by increasing its maximum value, suposely to make it a bit more challenging to get to the top…

I’m very confused as to what people who claim you don’t lose anything think.

The biggest cost of high AR infusions (+15, +16 to +20) is the reagent cost, which is huge.

In my case, for AR + 16 it costs 590g JUST for reagents.
Multiply that by 5… cause that was the required amount of +16 needed to max your stats.
Even if you break it to a lot of +9, you still lose all the reagents needed from +9 to +16. And that’s a lot too.

Again, I am not saying this new system is bad, only that logically, Anet should have a solution ready for players who spent a lot of time and gold (or real money) on this.
It makes absolutely no sense to anger the players who still play the game a lot.

The value of an item should only decrease in time, and not because of some surprise update on them. It’s very frustrating.

just imagine those who spent so much time and money on Agony infusion + 16 cause this was the only way to get 150 AR and extra stats…
the price dropped by 6 already… it costs a lot more to actually craft it now…

Well I think everyone agree that is system is better.

Yes, but for months (year?) the only option we had was either 7AR or +5/5.

So 14 (number of agony slots) * 5 > 90 to get max stats
And we needed 5 (number of infusion slots) * 16 to get to 150.

A +16 AR is about 500g JUST OF Thermocatalytic Reagent. So not counting the 32,768 Agony +1.

So you understand why some people are bitter that out of nowhere we lost more 2.5k worth of stuff…

Just looking at the market right now… Agony infusions +16 have lost almost their value…

Thank you for looking into this

In order to maximize your stats, you previously had to have 5X +16 AR.

How do you “break” that and get at least some of this money back?

It really doesn’t feel rewarding for some of us who dedicated a lot of time on these fractals… more like we got screwed.

ArchonWing.9480:

Yea, it’d be nice if single use bank expresses helped people. Right now, if you just move a bit or accidentally close the window, it’s gone.

While you’re at it, please don’t spawn an NPC for the perma merchants, it’s annoying that it gets marked on the screen and tricks players into thinking it can be interacted with.

I will not buy either for that reason that using it is that selfish.

In the meantime, I will pack my bank expresses in a little corner of my bank….

This isn’t about being selfish. It’s convenience, like many other items in this game.
The problem comes from Anet that does allow personal traders/merchant to be visible for others. They could easily convert them to an item like the Karma converter, so that nothing actually spawn in the world if it’s not meant to be used by everyone.

My issue comes from the fact that I have stacks of bank express that are completely useless. I would like to be able to either have it spawn a bank for everyone around, or at least mail it to friends…

Hello,

I’d like to be able to turn the Bank Access Express into a spawnable item so that other people can also use it for a few minutes, like it already works with the merchant and trader.
Either that, or let us swap from bank access to merchant express.

Why? Because this item becomes absolutely useless once you get the permanent bank access, unlike the two others that can still be used by the other players.

I like gambling a bit, and I like supporting the game, and so I buy a set of keys every month, but there’s nothing more frustrating to get an item that you know is absolutely useless, you can’t even trade it or give it to friends.

I like the PVP, I just have a problem with some players.

First, the ONLY reason why It took me so long to get started with PVP is a minority of players in the community itself, aka toxic players. You know… the kind that goes “OMFG you noobs you suck” not even a minute after the match starts cause your team lost the battle at mid … well yeah, a team usually loses it every match, does that mean there’s a noob team every match? No? Maybe you could just keep playing and give meaningful advices since you seem to win them all?

This doesn’t help making a team win, on the contrary, nobody wants to try harder when there’s a whiner in a team. I’ve been in teams that were doing bad and someone stood up and actually gave meaningful advices, that’s how you win, and that’s how you become better. Being toxic never made anyone win a single match, it just makes the experience (let’s remember, it’s a game) stressful for some and overall not fun.
You also gotta remember, not everyone plays at a “pro” level, nor want to. Like, I understand that some mistakes are not really acceptable in diamond/legendary divisions, but don’t blame people at lower divisions for not being perfect… It’s just stupid, and it’s even more true in unranked. If you want to get more people interested in pvp, it’s just unacceptable to insult them when they’re trying to learn, jeez.
And no, ignoring these people isnt always easy. I shouldnt have to completely turn off the chat whenever one guy in one team out of 5 decides he needs to be (or pretend to be) good at a game to shine in life.
I really, really wish there was a way to report this kind of behavior.

The second thing that is getting annoying is that with some players, whenever they’re losing (we’re talking 200 vs 300) just go afk, and pretend the team can’t win…
Well I don’t know what kind of pvp these people play, but usually you don’t just stop playing because you lose, it’s called fair play. Plus there’s a lot of situations where you can end up winning anyway. It’s actually very fulfilling to win against a team that gave you a hard time.
Again, no way to properly punish players who go AFK in the middle of a match. It shouldnt be hard to detect someone who doesnt move (or stay at the start)…

I’ll say this again, this is a game, a game is made to have fun. I know some of us (me included) only do pvp for the backpack, but that doesn’t mean it has to be an unpleasant experience. Anet has some work to do but the whole experience can be made a LOT better by the community itself.

You get hit no matter how far you are, and its not agony, just damage.
Just dodge and you’ll be fine.
If you’re an ele, mist form or burning retreat and stuff.

Play at reset time, Ive always pugged it and no issue, fractals are not raid.

I hope we’re not going to see groups asking for specific builds and team configs for T4 fractals because of threads like this.

Honestly, T4 is not hard, with random pugs and team config I’ve beaten them all everyday without much stress or effort, it has a LOT to do with people’s ability to remain calm and not start blaming each other if it wipes, but T4 is definitely not worth becoming as elitist as raids. If anything, just get some potions, and it’s back to easy.