Guild Wars 2

jessiestiles.9437:

Dojo.1867:

According to the thread you bring up only 3.5% of players are actually “stuck” which propably comes down to less than 1% if you take away people that do not queue at primetime. Still it feels like 50% of this forum believes they are in MMR hell and stuck below their true MMR due to bad allies. Nope you aren’t.

With the amount of people that post saying they played 50 games and lost 3 I guess you naturally assume there’s an equally great number of people on the flip side of that.

And the people who do winstreak to legend in a few days then start a new account to do it again. Where is the competition in that? Not that I care but it must be boring for them. I’m given to believe they hate PVErs and don’t go there. So it can’t be for the loot and probably get sick of opening bags and just delete them. I suggested balanced matchmaking but put the pros in ruby. Then they can actually have a challenge. So what is the point of this system in pro terms?

Actually these 50/3 stories happen during the climb exclusively. They don’t happen on late diamond or legendary anymore (unless we really talk highest level professionals). Right now there are no more top tier players steamrolling sapphire/ruby and thus keeping people on the flip side “stuck”. This is just not the case anymore.

Also do you think those 50/3s should not happen at the start of the season if people are legimately good? Why would someone that belongs into a late legend tier concerning his true MMR not roll through amber, emeral, sapphire and ruby like that? Actually it is GOOD if he leaves this area as fast as possible. Losses would just make him stick around longer and ruin match quality on this division because he does not belong there.

The start of each season is problematic, I agree. They should work on systems to reduce those lopsided phases and many suggestions have been made. Afterall winstreaks are actually an attempt to reduce this amount of matches and bring people into their proper division with fewer games.

All this does not really apply at this point anymore though. If you still get stomped then either you are in those 1% that is really, really unfortunate (true MMR hell) or you are just not that good. With that many players complaining about elo hell most of them more likely belong to the group that are really actually just not that good.

jessiestiles.9437:

And the people who do winstreak to legend in a few days then start a new account to do it again. Where is the competition in that?

You are absolutely right that this behavior is very problematic for the system and should be discouraged in the future. It is actually abusing the system but this phenomenom (smurfing) is not exclusive to gw2.

The MMR system worked but it was a failure in combination with leagues. Don’t ever bring that abomination back in combination with the league system.

I don’t need to watch a single video. I’d rather base this on my exprience of hundreds of games up to legend and beyond. Sure, if there are people that think it helps them then use it. Most of the calls can be made by common sense though if players use their own brain.

Guess it is also class dependent. I can see a mesmer running portal on foefire might want to use chat. Got to give you that.

Astralporing.1957:

Dojo.1867:

Haven’t there been enough threads by now proving that MMR hell only exists when you queue at a weird time?

No. Doing that increases the effect, but it still exists even during prime time.
In fact, worst matchups seem to happen during weekend primetime, when there’s even more players than usual.

Dojo.1867:

I am not saying this is an optimal system, Arenanet should work on it. But if you still couldn’t climb up by now then there is a 99% chance you just aren’t capable of doing it based on your lack of skill.

There’s actual math in the other thread – look at it. That simulation has shown a certain percentage of players getting stuck (with the system hugely distorting their MMR) “down” or “up” for the whole season. No, those aren’t players taken from top/bottom by real skill. Read it up, it’s enlightening.
And before you start to put that in doubt, look few posts down in that same topic, where Anet basically admits that yes, they are aware this is happening.

Not sure why it’s still even up for discussion.

I am not saying it doesn’t exist. But (and I base this on the exact thread you are quoting) I think it is irrelevant for the vast mayority of people complaining here. Yes, there is an MMR hell but still 99% of people thinking they are in MMR hell are actually not and just chose to believe that because it is easier to accept.

According to the thread you bring up only 3.5% of players are actually “stuck” which propably comes down to less than 1% if you take away people that do not queue at primetime. Still it feels like 50% of this forum believes they are in MMR hell and stuck below their true MMR due to bad allies. Nope you aren’t.

Chat coordination is overrated. 1% of all the stuff written in chat is actually productive. I have seen completely muted teams coordiante better on average than those chatters.

No because you could quite easily block bad players and thus gain an advantage by not being matched with them. This is not how a MM system works.

Just hide team chat if you want my personal advise.

Everybody suggesting this does not understand how MM systems work and that you cannot let people randomly intervene with them. Imagine someone blocking almost everyone he meets in his pip range that isn’t super good? Insane queue times, the whole system would become prone to manipulation. No, just no! Bad suggestion. Think first.

Legendary Legend Kappa

This is the thing most people don’t get. It is not about weither MMR hell exists or not. It is about how likely it is for you to be affected by MMR hell.

And at primetime it is very unlikely. Atleast there is a massive discrepancy of people crying about MMR hell here and the actual chance to be affected by it. There is actually a huge chance to also have mostly bad players in the opponent team at primetime which means you can carry your bad allies against them.

Haven’t there been enough threads by now proving that MMR hell only exists when you queue at a weird time?

So all the people crying tell me they cannot play in the evening and carry themselves up for what reason exactly?

I am not saying this is an optimal system, Arenanet should work on it. But if you still couldn’t climb up by now then there is a 99% chance you just aren’t capable of doing it based on your lack of skill. I feel sorry for the remaining 1%. The mayority of people complaining here on forums are not in the 1% though.

MMR hell exists. Most people thinking they are in MMR hell are just legitametly bad though. Very few players are ACTUALLY sitting below their true elo and have no chance to change it. Very many players pretend to be in that position though.

Also make some changes to elite specs for season 3 please. Like nerf every single one of them.

Who does still use trapper runes on DH? Not high ranked people atleast from my experience.

For some classes there are situations where an off meta spec is better depending on te enemy team. For example on druid it can make sense to go paladin instead of mending (with a couple of other trait changes aswell) if you see like 4 direct dmg classes in the enemy team. People will do this now much less likely because it can be quite the effort.

Some specs that might seem too good in the current meta would already be countered by that simple QoL improvement because it makes people adept.

I predict that WAY more people would alter their build if all they had to do is 2 or 3 clicks and picking the build from a list.

We have to be able to save/load our builds. Changing a few traits, a weapon, a rune is fine but the moment you want to change multiple stuff it becomes a pain in the kitten . What is the result? People play allround specs that are most efficient on average but not in every matchup individually.

I can not understand how such an important feature still does not exist. How is this even hard to develope? I just don’t get it.

“warrior reroll or I afk”

“ok I afk”

You must have been lucky with your team. Not even saying he is not skilled but he must still have been extremly lucky because the example above is how it very often happens.

So before you read on. I don’t think in the current meta and in the current state of balance this Amulet should be picked over stuff like Mender/Paladin/Marauder. However the difference is smaller than people might think and Ranger, with the Relentless GM trait, is propably the best class to go for a high ferocity/low precision build.

Stats:
1200 Power
900 Ferocity
900 Vitality

In terms of defense this amulet is on the same level as Mender and Paladin. More vitality but you lose either healing power or toughness. So the big question is how it performs offensively. For my calculations I used this tool:

http://jsfiddle.net/GNEFd/10/embedded/result/

For simplicity we use a clean translation of power into attack damage dealt. Don’t look at the absolute number (which will always depend on target armor, weapon scaling, etc) but rather how this number changes between Amulets. Here is the damage for Mender and Paladin stats with and without Fury using Runes of the Pack:

Mender

• Crit: 7080, No Crit: 2360 (with trait that converts healing power to power)
• Crit Chance: 36%
• Average: 4059
• Average with Fury: 5003

Paladin

• Crit: 6675, No Crit: 2225
• Crit Chance: 60%
• Average: 4895
• Average with Fury: 5785

For Valkyrie I maxed out precision via runes and sigils (Exuberance and Accuracy). This should always be done for this Amulet since it greatly increases DPS (much more than on the other Amulets).

Valkyrie

• Crit: 8442, No Crit: 2345
• Crit Chance: 16%
• Average: 3320
• Average with Fury: 4540

However in most current builds you can use Strength of the Pack every 48 seconds. This will proc Relentless for almost every greatsword attack. Assuming an 80% crit rate and 25% increased critical damage (due to refreshing Relentless) this results in following numbers for those ~ 10 seconds.

Valkyrie with Strength of the Pack

• Crit: 9661, No Crit: 2345
• Crit Chance: 80%
• Average: 8198

Conclusion:

For Valkyrie to compete in any way you should run a build with permanent Fury (which is rather easy to achieve though as Ranger). Precision must be maxed out which consumes some rune/sigil slots you might have used for other stuff.

Burst damage while using Strength of the Pack is extremely high.

Relentless works best with slow attacking weapons like Greatsword. Does not work well with Staff for example which makes it bad in the current meta. If we ever see buffs to greatsword or more greatsword build in general Valkyrie will become more viable.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Dojo.1867:

Yes, ranger has much weaker scaling due to pet. Up to 40% of our damage comes from our pet. This does not mean you shouldn’t max out the remaining 60% though because even if offensive stats aren’t as impactful as on other classes you wont kill anything with just the pets 40%.

That’s why you take Mender that goes for 50% offensive stats which include the main spike of any Ranger’s there ever has been. Sigil of Air and Fire (High Power and enough Crit).
Yep, it has never been Rapid Fire that did the trick. It was the Sigils that couldn’t be negated due to lots of attacks with high crit chance. Even if people dodged 60% of Rapid Fire, they could never escape the 2-3K spike from sigils.

It’s always about the results. And if I have to choose between boosting my offense by 25 units or my survival and utility both by 40 units while still boosting my offense by 10 units – then it’s a clear choice.
If I really wanted to go for offense – I’d pick condi that boosts offense by 50 units unlike Paladin/Berserker/Marauder. Once I pick a Power Weapon – I already forced myself a utility route, not offense.
(numbers are naturally made up. they were picked for demonstration, not as data, you probably know what I have in mind, though)

The thing with offense is that you have to reach a certain point to kill anything in 1on1 before their heal rotations etc are up again. If you fail to reach that point then you can “more efficiently” invest in defensive stats all you want, you will still end up being useless given that druid role usually indeed includes frequent 1on1 skirmishing.

Concerning Eurantiens point:

I totally observe the effect he is talking about. I ironically DO spend more time healing in Paladin. However I would say that the slightly more offensive stats make up for it. In the end offensively both amulets are on the same level. The question people should ask is: can I reliably survive direct dmg burst? Eurantien already said on stream that the build is vulnerable to Rev/Thief and Mender is definitely the culprit here. If you constantly die to those the Paladin switch can be worth it.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Average players should stay in middle divisions. Definitely. Anything else will ruin the whole system. Remove the “cannot lose tiers” for emerald and sapphire so we don’t have that huge pool of ruby people with extremly varyiing skill levels. The way it is now you sabotaged your system.

Incentive to keep playing if you have reached a relatively low tier and cannot climb anymore? Imo just gaining more experience will allow you to eventually climb afterall and for that you have to play. We also still have reward tracks.

The reason people “stuck” in Ruby are sick of ruby is because some of them could win more but get constantly matched with people that should have not progressed further than emerald/sapphire (but artificially did so due to no tier loss).

Yes, ranger has much weaker scaling due to pet. Up to 40% of our damage comes from our pet. This does not mean you shouldn’t max out the remaining 60% though because even if offensive stats aren’t as impactful as on other classes you wont kill anything with just the pets 40%.

It is a close call and versus certain enemy teams there might be better options than mending. Still think with this small edge of toughness from Signet of Stone (180) and runes (175) mending will perform better more frequently. This is almost the toughness you would get from an Amulet.

“the problem starts, when your team mates are below average you are average and facing average in that division”

When you are average you should not progress. You reached your proper division if you have the skill level of the average player in that division.

Raek.8504:

That’s not the case, this season start of with people artificially bumping lowering/increasing everyone else MMR when everyone started of within the same bracket and tier guards existing.

Doesn’t matter what their artificial MMR is. People above the average of a pip range will continuesly leave that range because they win. If you belong to those people then you will too. Only people with low “true” MMR wont get out and eventually the only people left will be those. So if your true MMR is higher you will get matches with 9 other people that do in fact have this low true MMR and you will rise.

Artificial MMRs do not exist after a certain time period because the rule of large numbers and the way the system is set up works against them. Bad people deny this fact but it is pure logic.

Raek.8504:

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

See this right there is just an unrealistic scenario. Why? Because there are no 1500 MMR players left to get matched vs 1200. If this was the case they would constantly win (because their teammates are 1500 MMR aswell) and climb out of this pip range.

What you describe is a very real problem in the first two or three weeks of the season but it gets more and more neglectable. At some point if you are REALLY stuck at a certain division then you belong there.

It is just hard to accept for people and easier to blame matchmaking. It is true. They need to work on those first few weeks to reduce lopsided matches but right now this effect pretty much doesn’t exist anymore.

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Dojo.1867:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.

1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?

2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?

3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?

1) I mean really low due to many losses in games I could have won if I/my team didn’t tilt.

2) The point is that everyone (!) in the match is trash. You are the only variable. If 9 players are bad this allows your individual impact to be relatively high. This makes carrying much easier than for example in a game of [2 good 2 bad + you] vs [3 good + 2 bad].

3) I am not but I base this on logic. Sure I assum that the enemy team has bad players too (so not only your allies) but with a high enough number of games this will be the case. At this point good players will have left low divisions already because they get matched with other good players and climb. Only people with low MMR are stuck but in their games they are the only variable so they can carry if they are actually better than their MMR.

I am pretty sure it is doable even if harder. My point was that for me it resulted in a spiral of tilting so it was better to change something. Part of the reason was also me being frustrated with balance so for my mentality to change it was best to change classes.

Maybe my warrior is not legend worthy. Don’t have a problem with that. I still made it by switching my playstyle while other people cry on forums about elo hell.

Imo it’s fun. lol

Fivedawgs.4267:

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.

Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.

Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.

At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?

Thief will always have the maximum mobility niche (yes, more than revs).

Warrior indeed has no niche at all for a long time now.

I think Menders is better due to condi meta and the fact that good burst classes (thief/rev) can kill you in Paladins anyway. Also you all just talked about self defense but Menders actually means the survivability of your whole team goes up.

I like how you couldn’t progress whenever you swapped to druid and quickly went reaper again which made you climb.

Reaper so balanced.

Hi Hugh!

Did you consider adding gliding and updrafts to get back on the map if you have fallen through the glass? This would basically be a way to make insta deaths less punishing but still reward the player pulling of the knockback through glass/from map because it takes time to get back.

The gliding would obviously be enabled just on this map and be mastery independent (so also non hot owner could glide on skyhammer).

This would be a great way to implement this mechanic into pvp. There is no other map it would make more sense on. I am sure the implementation would not be easy and there is a lot of stuff to consider (Can gliding players still be attacked? Where are the updrafts placed?) but it would be rally worth it. Atleast worth testing.

Warlord.9074:

The build is interesting however it has zero offensive pressure. I understand that is the point, but you can’t carry solo q if you cant kill anyone.

That is neither the point nor is it true. The offensive pressure is still very high with sage. Primal bursts like flame flurry hit for 7k, skull grinder for about 4k.

It is true that usually this type of condi warrior runs strength. This gives more confusion damage BUT very often I found the difference to be almost neglectable since you basically stunlock your target anyway.

Don’t get fooled thinking this skill has no offensive pressure. Like with all warrior builds it is not the easiest to set up your dmg though. It is also single target focussed and not spammable like what most classes do.

This will never happen. The quality level you set with your proposed changes does just not match what gw2 balancing team can achieve.

They would have to hire additional people, instead they actually take people away from the balancing team/assign them different tasks after they released badly tested and unfinished elite specs for the expansion.

The balancing team isn’t even to blame here. I am sure they hate it aswell that they are forced to deliver low quality content. The arenanet leadership is to blame that sets the priorities wrong like that.

Anyone got information? Not seen him around since pretty much 4 months.

Does he even still work at Arenanet? This studio is a clusterkitten.

Ye that regen is not worth it picking a completely different traitline. Actually even running a silly banner just for that seems not worth it.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Ah so the tactic line is making a comeback. 6k at every stun break is a bit op, I can’t believe people still think we don’t have sustain. Warriors have sustain, our main problem are revs. Revs are and will alays be stronger than us. I’ll check if last stand and stamina will yield me the same cd on dogde as warhorn + stamina.

Well to be honest the defense line makes the build and already heals for 3k. The rune adds another 1.5k and last but not least traited shouts another 1.5k.

Basically the reason why shouts make sense is that the build already runs a healing power amulet so better make best use out of it. The shout heal is also high aoe team heal. Also you will already run Shake it Off since it is the lowest cd stunbreak next to Outrage.

So tactics is not a must have but basically the best option for sustain out of defense right now. If they added decent heal (or regeneration) sources in a different traitline then I would go for that.

Also helps that traiting To the Limit actually makes it a very decent heal and warrior heals otherwise feel really mediocre at the moment.

Needs cast time removed.

The pitiful dmg is hardly worth it if you even have to skip something else that would deal damage just to cast it.

Currently in first Ruby Division exclusively with this metabattle build I created:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Shoutbreak_Sage

High learning curve but really fun to play imo. The team support is actually pretty significant.

I don’t even care much about the scaling. My biggest issue is the fact how hard it is to hit for example mace burst and how much more fluid the promal burst feels. Similiar stuff with swords flurry.

Doubt it would be the exact same number even with Blood reckoning. Don’t think op is so kittened and would have realized 2 seperate shots.

Some normal burst skills (especially sword, mace, greatsword) feel completely outdated imo. Flurry feels just horrible the way it is coded and the animation feels off.

Axe: Eviscerate -> fine
Greatsword: Arcing Slice -> more damge per adrenaline level
Hammer: Earthshaker -> fine, maybe slight dmg increase per adrenaline level
Longbow: Combustive Shot -> fine
Mace: Skull Crack -> slight dmg increase per adrenaline level, leap animation like the primal burst skill with increased range
Rifle : Kill Shot -> slight channeling duration reduction
Sword: Flurry -> now functions like Flame Flurry but with bleeding projectiles, bleed duration is 3, 4, 5 seconds depending on adrenaline level

When will Arenanet do something?

What makes you think I don’t understand how it works?

Who runs anything but rox quiver?

#keepitreal

The main reason why they cannot beat necro is the incredibly broken skill/trait combo that is Plague Signet.

Remove the trait. Making this battle turning mechanic almost random is incredibly bad design. Give them something new instead. In fact, not a single condition should be transfered randomly because it is completely silly if it hits the 12 burn stacks a warrior applies.

Nerf the skill. Something like a 45 second cooldown would be a good start.

Warrior needs an adept trait “Your CC removes 5 stacks of stability instead of 1”.

Plague Signet is propably the most broken skill in the game and they even merged it into an adept trait. It is really easy to see that they lost any common sense.

This is how a warrior skill looks:

• Break stun
• Remove one condition from allies in 600 AoE
• 25s cd
• Skill exists as a master trait

This is how a necro skill looks:

• Break stun
• Remove five condtions
• Apply five conditions to target ally
• 30s cd
• Skill exists as adept trait
• Unblockable

Believe me. This company lost every competent developer a long time ago. Bad salaries made only those people stay that are bad at their jobs. And even those don’t get enough room for balance work due to a leadership that is nothing but a failure.

I wont buy any Arenanet game ever again.

Letting incompetent higher ups make decisions about weither a balance split between pvp/pve is needed.

Just look at skills like the berserker heal for warrior. Even the worst game designer in the world would realise you have to split balance between modes.

Yeah lets remove every single amulet because Anet is too lazy to balance classes.

Split pve/pvp balance and finally get your kitten together.

ronpierce.2760:

Just some balance quirks with Scrapper, Herald, Reaper and Tempest (Support). I wouldn’t even say “most classes” since it’s only a few primary builds causing significant issues.

Yeah I had a bit trouble with the wording on that. I wanted to see if people would rather want to see nerfs in general to the top tier classes (necro, rev, scrapper, ele on the support field) or buffs to the low tier classes (warrior).

http://strawpoll.me/6945270

Please vote! You can vote for multiple options at once.