I really don’t see dropping burn will work. Would actually run sword/torch instead of SB. In normal trapper SB is if you have to go more defensive and just shot from range a bit. Staff does that already.
On second look I really don’t think that glyph is better than flame trap in any way. And wtf? Get quickdraw. This trait is sooooo much better. Just for mobility or evasion it does so much.
(edited by Dojo.1867)
So this means that if your pet has 25 stacks of might, even if all of the stacks have say 1s duration, then they become 10s of 25 stacks of might on the Ranger? Ok, I guess so.
You need the might when you can actually do something with it so I doubt you will actually wait with your heal until your pet has 1 sec left just to run around with 25 stacks.
You do it when you can actually make use out of them and don’t think using the heal like that will kill you. Do you really play ranger in pvp? I alwas read your comments and they imply that you have no clue how actual matches work.
Ok please make the astral wisp that circles around the target one of those raven projectiles. Please make the #3 skill (astral grace) one of those ravens aswell.
This would make up for the auto being a beam. I really don’t think the 2 elite specs that have staff should both not be able to see the coolest part of it. Fix that!
It is acceptable because you really have to build around it to make it work. You could actually even see this as a nerf if you cannot stack might onto your pet since before you would even get 3 might stacks if your pet only has 1. It just didn’t make sense.
This is exactly what needed to happen. Personally I have to admit that I was really upset about the nerf you guys performed but honestly … it was a bad nerf and made the whole thing very unintuitive while only really damaging builds which have to go all out for the might stacking so something that was a fair trade off to begin with.
Great change. This will bring back my Migthy Power Ranger build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1UtsY0uZVk
(edited by Dojo.1867)
Am stuck on forest of niflhel ranked game.
To be honest I don’t think the tweaks to AF generation are good enough. Still doesn’t change the fact how certain skills give 10times the amount of other skills which is just stupid.
Please base this around the % of healing/dmg done instead of the number of idividual instances. There is no reason to make a skill like TU 10x better for druid than other heals, it reduces build variety. There is no reason that you can fill AF 10x better with a skill like Barrage than anything on for example Greatsword.
A good number for heals would be 0.0025% per healing. 400hp healed would generate 1% AF. Most of the healing skills heal you and your pet for about 7k to 10k each so it would generate between 40 and 50%.
Make this % based. The current implementation is incredibly flawed.
Your constructive feedback has been really awesome so far and I trust will continue to be. I understand your concerns with not enough being communicated and I’m looking into getting more information out on some of the more solid changes we have.
I just hope you consider that one BWE does not equal three BWEs and that you continue to tune druid accordingly post HOT launch. I don’t want the same fiasco like with original ranger were core issues pretty much stayed for months, some of them for years.
Wait. No change to the way astral force is generated and consumed? Will I still have to run Troll Unguent on pretty much every druid build because the generation is not % based but how often the healing ticks? Will I still have no real bemefit from celestial glyph versions because the whole thing is time gated and I rather get in as much 1-5 as possible?
How about 2 separate elixirs for both the different forms?
Then it would just be exact copies of the other classes elites in the form of elixirs?
It is okay if you guys don’t like my suggestion. I just HATE what it does right now (beside the toolbelt). Then just create a new thing for the elixir, his own thing.
Is it THAT hard to come up with 5 new skills? You do this all the time for some custom brawl potion.
This is a suggestion that I made all the way back in 2012, lol.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46766-elixir-x-remake-idea/
Tbh I find this really just as much NOT OP as smokescale where you use all your utility slots on high cooldown for the burst.
Both requires enemy targets with sloth reactions.
…Just you wait, some random “top player” will say it is OP and Anet will nerf MoC or LI. I am calling it out now.
Well, seriously, anyone can see that. Nobody should be able to permanently Daze 5 people. Anyone that thinks Ranger should be able to, because it is bottom tier, is not actually interested in balance.
Essentially, two Druids could hold mid indefinitely by chaining CC to lock everyone out of their skills and healing each other.
We want Ranger and Druid to be good and balanced, not good because it is unbalanced.
This is a completely unrealistic scenario. This daze is not instant and requires specific circumstances like being in celestial form. You should look at it more like rampage as one or tornardo which both actually also deal damage while CCing.
Again, this daze still allows you to move/dodge. It is pretty much the softest CC form and you can dodge it VERY easy to begin with.
They have to balance around what is possible, not what is probable.
Plus, MoC and LI pretty well nullifies any PvE content they make that has mobs without break bars.
I just think they will nerf it because it has the possibility of being crazy strong when combined with tons of healing.
I don’t think you understand the concept. They are ALREADY balancing it. This has nothing to do with propability. The CC already IS:
- very soft in the form of daze
- very well telegraphed
- very conditional setup with having to fill enough astral force/going celestial
- requires specific build, there are propably better lines for druid than MM
I really have to question your PvP experience if you think this is remotely at the level of CC/lockdown already in the game on warrior, mesmer, thief, necro, engineer. Basically all existing classes have easy access to almost permanent lockdown just integrated into normal builds. I really advise you give this one some time in action before you cry for nerfs.
(edited by Dojo.1867)
…Just you wait, some random “top player” will say it is OP and Anet will nerf MoC or LI. I am calling it out now.
Well, seriously, anyone can see that. Nobody should be able to permanently Daze 5 people. Anyone that thinks Ranger should be able to, because it is bottom tier, is not actually interested in balance.
Essentially, two Druids could hold mid indefinitely by chaining CC to lock everyone out of their skills and healing each other.
We want Ranger and Druid to be good and balanced, not good because it is unbalanced.
This is a completely unrealistic scenario. This daze is not instant and requires specific circumstances like being in celestial form. You should look at it more like rampage as one or tornardo which both actually also deal damage while CCing.
Again, this daze still allows you to move/dodge. It is pretty much the softest CC form and you can dodge it VERY easy to begin with.
I think a 15 second cd on arguably the best heal on Druid might be too much of a nerf.
What do you think about the daze build? Think it can make power ranger have a higher impact on higher level play?
Hard to say. I think if they universalize Astral Force generation across druid without being forced to use Troll Unguent it will open up a lot more build diversity. If they do this, I don’t think marksmanship would be the strongest trait line for druid. + I don’t think dazes are very strong. You can still move, and dodge. Just have to see how it plays out.
The glyph daze is instant though and can punish classes like ele, thief, mesmer quite a bit.
I don’t think you can proc Remorseless often enough to deal decent dmg but guess the healer version already kind of works. Sure travels points rather fast. Not sure though if Sword/Dagger isn’t better survivanility though compared to GS but ye, the MoC is better with GS.
I wonder if the tiger pet helps the remorseless crusader build potentially proccing it every 10 sec. Or just having a herald in your team.
I think a 15 second cd on arguably the best heal on Druid might be too much of a nerf.
What do you think about the daze build? Think it can make power ranger have a higher impact on higher level play?
Uhm. If you are in celestial form you basically cannot deal damage so CC is all that is left. Furthermore the daze is really telegraphed and basically the first thing a druid will do when he goes celestial so if you cannot dodge that it is really your problem.
This suggestion is ridiculous. If someone goes all the way to invest into these traits then the CC should be strong. That is what it is about. And you even want to nerf the dmg by adding ICD? What? Out of all things that are potentiall OP you complain about this??
What about we remove the therma interrupting of thief then?
So instead of as kill we might instantly leave 50% of the time we should have a skill that essentially kills us and loses the fight?
Should rename this post title to [Massive Unwarranted Nerf] Elixir X
Moa doesn’t kill you and this is why I gave 2 possible suggestions. The second version can be made a rather safe cast if you include stealth or stability into your build or time it correctly in 1vs1s.
Would like to discuss 2 suggestions:
A) 66% chance Rampage, 33% chance Moa self.
B) Increased cast time of 3 seconds. Always Rampage. If you are interrupted when casting this Moa self.
It would keep the somewhat random theme but be actually more consistent with the toolbelt and have a real downside. I know that in rare occasions you want to stay in Tornardo a bit but I just find it extremely stupid to have a skill you just instantly quit 50% of the time.
Also Moa can actually still be usefull with the leap/distance you can travel to disnengage.
Can we stop putting Irenio in thread titles? Nobody on the engi forum does this. It is ridiculous.
Ye I don’t actually see why a ranger giving up his whole bar would not be allowed to do that dmg on a 50 second cooldown.
Enjoy the merge.
Don’t know why some people think he’s special enough to give feedback with a separate topic, while everyone else are giving length feedback in the Mega Thread.
If you legitimately want to discuss a suggestion with other forum members instead of just giving feedback (like a one directional form of communication) then I think a separate topic is the better way to do so.
Celestial Form
- Astral Force is now generated as percentage of healing done or damage dealt (200 hp healed = 1%, 600 damage dealt = 1%) This will still give TU the ability to fill most of the bar but also other ranger heals can do this now giving druids more build variety.
- Celestial form now consumes 1% Astral Force per second and Celestial Form skills cost Astral Force (1: 1%, 2: 5%, 3: 10%, 4: 20%, 5: 30%) Right now celestial form puts you in a rush to cast (spam) as many skills as possible and because all the skills are strong you can hardly justify using the skills on the right side of your skill bar. This gives you more time to use what you want and you don’t get punished for wanting to use glyphs for example.
I get what you mean but you really need the push for decapping in basic form.
People here are biased on a kindergarten level. I made a similiar thread a while ago. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/How-good-is-Healing-Turret-suposed-to-become
Any professional engi player (specifically asked chaith and some others) states that in a vacuum healing turret is absolutely broken OP. Engi needs love. HT needs nerf. You cannot buff all other heals to that level. They need buffs but not to that level. HT is too good. Think outside of your favorite class for just a second and stop with that “don’t take away my candy” attitude.
People here don’t seek balance. They just want their class to be good.
(edited by Dojo.1867)
So, Druid has 8% faster movement speed while nothing is happening and the others have 25% faster when it counts.
Guardian jumping in here …
Crying over the iscussion of first tyrianworld problemTo OP:
I think everyone can acknowledge that it is a kitten good movement trait with a downside. That does not mean its OP and should be nerfed merely because other classes have less. The 33% however do seem odd. It really should be 25% looking at the whole game. The 33% are not really logic.on a side note: Its pretty rich that rangers have two options to get passiv speed where guardians still have none and in general practical weak acces to swiftness.
however this is the ranger forum and I am happy for druids to have such a cool trait. Resorting to make your own class better is a much nicer way to improve things then to cry for nerfs on something on ohter classes that is not game breaking at all.
If it was 25% it would be a straight downgrade from Mecha Legs. 33% is actually exactly right.
Really like this suggestion.
That druid daze is incredible. Get completely locked down.
It actually is really predictable though. Oh that ranger just went cele form, guess what will come down from above … So please, give yourself some time to learn to predict/dodge it.
For the lockdown to become real he also has to take MoC and last but not least he has efficiently zero damage while doing this. It is a very fair trade and the daze has to be that duration to be viable.
Yep sick em beside being a terribly designed skill to begin with kind of was used to make up for the kittenty damage pets do because they miss 50% of their stuff. So when FINALLY a pet actualy can connect some of its damage it gets nerfed? Seems the wrong target then.
A skill with 2s evasion, constantly porting to the enemy so you can’t run away and able to hit for 27k? This is the essence of overpowered and needs to be nerfed.
Screenshot or it never happened.
Watch the vid of the OP.
I know ranger needs help and all, but seriously you already got a video in here and no one wants to admit this skill seems to be a bit too powerful?
People kind of agree but we didn’t even have the chance to test the pet in sPvP and last time something appeared a bit too strong (and really wasn’t btw) it got kneejerk nerfed to the ground 3 days later.
I know marksmanship is in there somewhere for the Moment of Clearity trait. Besides that, I’m unsure myself.
Yep this one is good. Basically LB/GS power ranger but with the daze glyph and MoC. Druid provides a good buff for the interrupt/lockdown gameplay that power ranger already had as a minor theme. Losing pet taunt doesn’t hurt if you get an instant 4sec aoe daze on a rather low cooldown and a 6s aoe daze in celestial form. Also permanent entangling and overall more sustain/condi removal due to druid.
Great build. Interactive and adds a new role to ranger with the lockdown. The celestial daze is insane but hard to hit and takes away the possibility to deal damage. Overall seems very balanced, well rounded and useful.
Does anyone else think you should be able to have both Natural Stride and Verdant Etchings traits in your build?
So I propose to swap Verdant Etchings with Cultivated Synergy. I think this way it would least impact trait synergies.
Let me know if you agree or disagree and why it would be a good or a bad thing and if you have a better alternative.
Edit:
Other suggestions:
Swap Natural Stride with Natural Mender
I think noone would ever take natural mender if it wouldn’t be minor.
In this thread: non ranger main OP is upset about a trait he doesn’t even fully understand.
Also I like this attitude of “if ranger gets it other classes should also have it” but it is okay if other classes can keep unique mechanics like teleporting etc.
id like to say the OP is wrong, but mecha legs is exactly the same trait except slower.
natural stride is just stronger for some reason.
passive buffs shouldn’t be good as swiftness since then they obviate swiftness.
Please just read the traits properly.
- +25% movement Speed, -33% duration to movement impeding conditions. Master trait. You have to choose it.
- +25% movement Speed, -25% duration to movement impeding conditions. GM Minor trait. You get it anyway.
- -33% duration to movement impeding conditions. +33% movement speed, if you have none of these conditions. Master trait. You have to choose it.
Not the same, equally balanced based on effects, conditional effects.
Good post. Trait is perfectly in line with the others. Note that both alternative traits in the druid line really hurt to sacrifice.
(edited by Dojo.1867)
Roy Cronacher is already working intensively on a well thought out nerf. Propably will only be able to hit enemies up to 3 times in the future!
I mean you don’t have to play the ranger class to nerf stuff. This is totally legit.
No I like the push on GoTT base form. Its needed for self defense when out of form.
It simply need a AoE regen and maybe even a blast finisher or water field.
Vine Surge need its cast time reduced to 1/2 seconds. far too hard to hit.
On second thought ai think you are right about this. Thematically a pull would be more aggressive and a push more defensive but I think the push in basic form is needed for decapping and stuff like that. Will edit original post.
Celestial Form
- Astral Force is now generated as percentage of healing done or damage dealt (200 hp healed = 1%, 600 damage dealt = 1%) This will still give TU the ability to fill most of the bar but also other ranger heals can do this now giving druids more build variety.
- Celestial form now consumes 1% Astral Force per second and Celestial Form skills cost Astral Force (1: 1%, 2: 5%, 3: 10%, 4: 20%, 5: 30%) Right now celestial form puts you in a rush to cast (spam) as many skills as possible and because all the skills are strong you can hardly justify using the skills on the right side of your skill bar. This gives you more time to play what to use and you don’t get punished for wanting to use glyphs for example.
Staff
- Solar Beam now connects to the nearest ally next to target enemy, heal per tick increased by 100%
- Astral Wisp now confuses the target enemy for 3 seconds whenever it heals
- Vine Surge now removes 2 conditions from the Druid and every ally it hits (any kind of condition)
- Sublime Conversion now also converts 2 random boons into conditions when enemies pass through
- fixed a bug where Staff would not be affected by Quick Draw
Glyphes
- Glyph of Alignment (basic form) now adds cripple and 5 stacks of bleeding for 5 seconds to enemies in range
- Glyph of Equality now also stunbreaks the Druid in basic form
Glyph of Tides push and pull swapped between basic and celestial form- Glyph of Empowerment damage buff increased to 15%
- Glyph of Alignment, Empowerement and Unity radius increased from 300 to 450
To be continued …
(edited by Dojo.1867)
Want to post my feedback from the main thread here again and like to hear some opinions on that:
Problem: Astral Force generation feels inconsistent. Some weapons (staff due to healing) or skills (troll unguent) fill it extremly fast while others do almost nothing forcing people to take those skills and thus greatly limiting build variety.
Solution: Astral Force is now generated as a percentage of damage dealt and healing done, no longer based on the pure number of dmg/heal instances. This makes other healing skills as good as troll unguent and also allows a weapon like greatsword (which hits only few targets) to compete with f.e. longbow which hits many targets. Overall astral force per damage should be greatly increased (right now 1/10 of heals, should be about 1/2) allowing builds without staff to not depend 90% on their healing skill to generate force.
Problem: Why would I even use glyphs in astral form. It is time limited and the healing skills are extremly powerful making you spam those as much as possible.
Solution: Make only a part of it time limited (like 1% loss per second) and attach an astral force cost to the celestial form skills (1: 1%, 2: 5%, 3: 5%, 4: 10%, 5: 20%). This allows you to use them more intelligently and also fit in your heal, utilities (like glyphs) and elite without feeling like you waste time on them.
Yep. Would be nice to be able to test those atleast once before release …
Cannot wait for the kneejerk nerfs.
I guess it is intended but actually really bad design. Without TU druid (celestial form) would be almost unusable without staff.
With TU you basically need nothing else and no other heal skill is viable unless you already run staff wich fills the bar.
To make it not cripple build variety (and force a single heal skill on almost evry druid spec) the system would need to be redesigned to work as % of the healing/damage done. This way other heal skills would also add a decent chunk to the bar. Also I dont see a reason to make the difference between healing/damage THAT high. Right now it is 1:10. Should propably be 1:2 or 1:3.
Problem: Astral Force generation feels inconsistent. Some weapons (staff due to healing) or skills (troll unguent) fill it extremly fast while others do almost nothing forcing people to take those skills and thus greatly limiting build variety.
Solution: Astral Force is now generated as a percentage of damage dealt and healing done, no longer based on the pure number of dmg/heal instances. This makes other healing skills as good as troll unguent and also allows a weapon like greatsword (which hits only few targets) to compete with f.e. longbow which hits many targets. Overall astral force per damage should be greatly increased (right now 1/10 of heals, should be about 1/2) allowing builds without staff to not depend 90% on their healing skill to generate force.
Problem: Why would I even use glyphs in astral form. It is time limited and the healing skills are extremly powerful making you spam those as much as possible.
Solution: Make only a part of it time limited (like 1% loss per second) and attach an astral force cost to the celestial form skills (1: 1%, 2: 5%, 3: 5%, 4: 10%, 5: 20%). This allows you to use them more intelligently and also fit in your heal, utilities (like glyphs) and elite without feeling like you waste time on them.
(edited by Dojo.1867)
It’s bad design, not balance.
The change with the 3 migt cap is the most unintuitive, inconsistent design I ever saw though. It is just so incredibly bad that I question the competence of the responsible dev concerning skill/class design.
The change was exactly what we needed. What is everyone complaining about?
I have honestly no clue about PvE but for PvP the quickness uptime is not problematic at all. The might is the strong thing but like I said a billion times already you have to sacrifice a lot of stuff to get the 25 stacks.
How do people even think popping QZ and your heal and constantly swapping pets would be worth it at all.
(edited by Dojo.1867)
Hey all,
We’re aware of these issues and have a pair of fixes in progress!
Good job on the whao change btw. Definitely put ranger more in line with other classes. Pls don’t listen to people crying for nerfs already. None of the new builds seem too good and are mainly a result of people fighting golems and thinking high quickness uptime would be godmode. It isn’t.
I needs to be changed to have the same table as Fortifying Bond
Thats the most likely thing i see happening.
As much as I want Ranger to be a bit OP for a while at least, I think this is a good idea. I, however, think that the durations should be removed from FB. So the pet gets the full durations from you from “WHaO!” and FB and you gain the shorter duration boons (like FB is now) from the pet with “WHaO!”. That would be better balance imo.
What exactly do you think is OP about that build? Did you even play it? It really isn’t.
The biggest issue is:
This ability holds mechanic that Rangers needed baseline (pet boon share).
Plus they added a nice trick to make it working both ways.It’s not OP in terms of balance. It’s OP in terms of competition with other heals available.
Other ranger heals are still better on most specs. We still have mediocre condi clear out of SOTF which makes Troll Unguent a strong pick and same goes for Healing Spring.
Only builds that can really run WHAO are power builds that can keep up range to avoid most condi pressure. The most viable ranger spec right now (trapper) can not run WHAO at all at the moment.
only on ranger forums you find people actually saying their class is op and needs a nerf… XD
Maybe by many non rangers. OP seems to be a ranger..appearently but I’m okay with the way WHaO is currently. It’s finally useful at all.
Ranger is my only class. Things like this should get nipped in the bud quickly so that it doesn’t result in nerfs later down the line. I am perfectly fine with WHaO sharing boons, but I don’t think it should share 100% duration.
No wonder you don’t know how Ele and Warrior can always do this before the patch, with access to more cleanse and passive heal!
Oh really? They can get 15s quickness by pressing two buttons? Teach me how to do that plox.
You click that Quickness and you’re toasted later since you burn your stun break, heal, condition removal just for that.
Wow the thought never occurred to me to not pop them before a fight, but rather wait until I need to use my stun break and heal, so smart. Or just to swap pets right before I use my heal during a fight to get 8s quickness. Wow so much strat.
Except that is not how it works. When you are pressured and usually will stunbreak you follow with a soft disengage using hunters shot and dont turn on your opponent full pewpew mode. It does NOT work like that versus any decent opponent.
The quickness uptime is high vs golems in the mist but ingame those builds are just too gimicky to efficiently use them and the damage increase just doesn’t translate well. MoC, Remorseless, Sigils and the Might Stacking do a much better job for damage increase.
It doesn’t work to kite when you have super speed and .5s cast WHaO? What doesn’t work? What is gimmicky about waiting to use your stun break/condi cleanse and heal until you need them?
Are you actively trying to not understand my post? Obv you wanna stunbreak/condi clear but very rarely you can then just blow your heal to get 15 seconds of quickness that you then even can efficiently utilize for damage. That is a completely unrealistic dream scenario. That 15s quickness will happen sometimes if your stars align but even then getting enough profit out of it to even justify the build is unlikely.
Builds that utilize the might and don’t run QZ at all can make much more profit out of this WHAO buff.
Ye forgot about that one. When your pet is finally hitting the target the last thing you wanna do is swap it away so there is another downside to this “op strategy”.
only on ranger forums you find people actually saying their class is op and needs a nerf… XD
Maybe by many non rangers. OP seems to be a ranger..appearently but I’m okay with the way WHaO is currently. It’s finally useful at all.
Ranger is my only class. Things like this should get nipped in the bud quickly so that it doesn’t result in nerfs later down the line. I am perfectly fine with WHaO sharing boons, but I don’t think it should share 100% duration.
No wonder you don’t know how Ele and Warrior can always do this before the patch, with access to more cleanse and passive heal!
Oh really? They can get 15s quickness by pressing two buttons? Teach me how to do that plox.
You click that Quickness and you’re toasted later since you burn your stun break, heal, condition removal just for that.
Wow the thought never occurred to me to not pop them before a fight, but rather wait until I need to use my stun break and heal, so smart. Or just to swap pets right before I use my heal during a fight to get 8s quickness. Wow so much strat.
Except that is not how it works. When you are pressured and usually will stunbreak you follow with a soft disengage using hunters shot and dont turn on your opponent full pewpew mode. It does NOT work like that versus any decent opponent.
The quickness uptime is high vs golems in the mist but ingame those builds are just too gimicky to efficiently use them and the damage increase just doesn’t translate well. MoC, Remorseless, Sigils and the Might Stacking do a much better job for damage increase. 15s of quickness are good when hitting some 1000000000hp PvE boss but not when people actively engage each other with a large variety of skills.
only on ranger forums you find people actually saying their class is op and needs a nerf… XD
Maybe by many non rangers. OP seems to be a ranger..appearently but I’m okay with the way WHaO is currently. It’s finally useful at all.
Ranger is my only class. Things like this should get nipped in the bud quickly so that it doesn’t result in nerfs later down the line. I am perfectly fine with WHaO sharing boons, but I don’t think it should share 100% duration.
No wonder you don’t know how Ele and Warrior can always do this before the patch, with access to more cleanse and passive heal!
Oh really? They can get 15s quickness by pressing two buttons? Teach me how to do that plox.
That is a terrible strategy in PvP. You cannot really use the quickness efficient enough to justify running these supbar trait(line)s and utility skills.
Power ranger got a nice buff since all the might adds up now but that is really it.
For the might stacks and quickness you basically trade:
- condi removal (cannot run survival skills that well with WHAO and SOTP, also no healing spring)
- cc (no taunt if you want quickness)
- overall QZ is just not doing enough tbh and using it for fights even takes away the use as stunbreak/condiclear
(edited by Dojo.1867)