Guild Wars 2

Cogbyrn.7283:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Plus, as a bit of bragging, my IQ is 190

No offense, but let me try to offend you. Wait, is 190 good? Darn.

I’ll take a rain-check on that offense that I don’t mean to offend.

Also, definitely give as much info as possible with bugs at all times. Even if it doesn’t seem like it matters (such as if it happened in PvE vs. WvW vs. sPvP vs. sPvP lobby).

Yeah, average human IQ is 100.

That said, all that says about me is that I learn and think fast, not that I can calculate differential equations in my head. I can have a hard enough time with just y=mx+b :p

Back on thread topic, regarding bug reports, details, details, details. Weird code interactions can come from a lot of places. For example, in League of Legends, back when Hecarim was first being tested on the PBE, there was a bug where using his charge to hit a Ziggs could diffuse Zigg’s ult that had already been thrown. It made virtually no sense, given the ability functions very similarly to another skill that had been in the game since launch (Rammus’s Q). As a result, Hecarim’s actual launch got delayed by nearly a month as the developers tried to track down the bug.

Just let it be 1200 Power, 900 Precision and Healing Power. Nothing more is needed.

Jackalrat.5493:

I don’t know how many of you have played League of Legends, but it’s kind of like the OP is a Marskman running up to a farmed Nasus and trying to win that fight with a single right click. Kiiiiiiite.

Alright, I’m done.

Probably the best comparison anyone has done regarding Reaper.

Kaint.6937:

If you are talking about Rite of the Great Dwarf,
1. It has a casttine of 1 1/4 seconds
2. You are forgetting that revenant has no cooldown on utility skills. The stability on other classes is only there to prevent the skill from going on full cooldown

My bad on the cast time. No, I’m not forgetting the lack of cooldown either, since it has an energy cost instead that gets deducted at the start of the cast.

Plus, as a bit of bragging, my IQ is 190

Blaine Tog.8304:

The Stability is literally only there to help cover the cast time so that the skill can be a stunbreaker in spite of having a cast time.

What is interesting, though, is that Revenants have an elite with a 2 second cast time that stunbreaks, but doesn’t give stability at all.

scarydogie.3024:

Thank you

Onerios.4962:

Think about what your asking for a moment. If blighters boon did not heal you while you were in shroud, why would the tooltip explicitly make a case for healing you while in shroud, it would simply state “while not in reapers shroud, gain life force when you gain a boon”.

True, however I’ve been gone for almost 2 months and wasn’t entirely sure of the state healing and death shroud were in. Do any other heals work while in shroud, other than unholy martyr?

Unholy Martyr doesn’t heal at all. You’re thinking of Unholy Sanctuary.

Here is a complete list of things that will currently heal you in Shroud:

1. Unholy Sanctuary
2. Vampiric
3. Vampiric Presence
4. Vampiric Rituals
5. Signet of Vampirism active
6. Blighter’s Boon

Blood Bond’s Lesser Signet of Vampirism should, but last anyone checked, it was bugged and did not work.

Grymlocke.1067:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Optimus Prime.8015:

Another Bug I have seen is the Trait that reduces Cool down of shouts

7% per target hit so 35% but when testing it it didn’t work it didn’t reduce CD of shouts at all

You weren’t paying attention, then, because it works perfectly.

For example, hit 5 targets and the cooldown timer for Your Soul is Mine starts at 13 seconds instead of 20.

Clearly he was paying attention as I have spoke to 4 others in my Guild who noticed it bugging as well, clearly all 5 of us are NOT paying attention ?

dont jump to conclusions muppet

Apparently not or you would have noticed it working all the time. What were you doing, equipping the trait, then looking at the shout tooltips?

When you have cooldowns based on particular circumstanes, the tooltip will never account for those. Why? because until those circumstances actually occur, there is no way to know for certain that they will occur. Notice that finisher skills don’t have the effects of their finisher factored into the tooltip? Pretty much the same reason.

hackks.3687:

If you want to prove it;s not bugged then you need to find another class capable of doing the very same thing for similar Might durations at a similar resource cost.

Engineers have a bugged trait called Juggernaut. It gives them permanent, pulsing Stability while using a flamethrower kit. Find me another class capable of getting permenant, pulsing stability.

nekretaal.6485:

The shout trait and greatsword trait should be totally reworked. Nobody will take them in their current state. The shout trait ought to be as powerful as the guardian trait (converts conditions to boons) or the warrior trait (heals) and not just some meaningless cooldown effect or lifesteal. The greatsword trait will never be taken in its current form (no need for cooldown reduction on gravedigger spam & no lifesteal synergy with other traits). The greatsword trait should be scrapped entirely & replaced with something else (my suggestion is conditions).

Augury of Death is already quite strong. If I’m running more than two shouts, I actually have to try and justify taking Reaper’s Onslaught instead. Even at only two shouts, it’s a debate.

Soul Eater, on the other hand… yeah, that’s bad.

Is that supposed to be a rebuttal? Poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation aside, Ravezaar has a point. Necros really aren’t OP, and their Celestial Signet build, while their best build in a long time, loses a ton of power when people aren’t boon-spamming to no end or trying to burn burst them.

Celestial Signet Necro really isn’t that strong of a build, but it counters most of the other meta builds by turning their strengths against them.

All Necro and Reaper builds have distinct strengths that can be avoided and weaknesses that can be exploited. However, not all builds have the same strengths and weaknesses (other than being resilient to conditions).

hackks.3687:

You can’t achieve 25 stacks of Might without increased boon duration and battle sigils on all of those examples.

I haven’t played Herald. That raises an interesting notion though. Is this a trend in the coming patch? More freely stacking might for everyone? That seems like a complete 180 from the last feature patch that resulted in the total nerfing of Might itself and classes ability to stack it.

Ele can, although they do get boon duration from Arcana traitline.

The elite specs are bringing less Might than they are Vulnerability, really. Everyone and their baby sister is getting the ability to rapidly apply 15-20 stacks of vulnerability with ease (usually in a single skill use). Only Herald and Reaper are giving more Might through traits, although someone thought it would be a good idea to give Eles the ability to share all of their boons +3 Might to a party… Because that is totally going to be balanced.

I can’t agree with you on most things here. For example, “Suffer!” is the weakest shout we have. It’s a Plague Signet that trades reliability (both in conditions transferred, where it has the same max, and in range) and a stunbreak for a bit of chill. It doesn’t even natively have a shorter cooldown to make it worth slotting instead.

Likewise, Augury of Death is already very competitive at the Adept level. “Your Soul is Mine!” is already quite a good healing skill, especially when traited. Even without traiting, YSIM out-does Consume Conditions in healing/second up through two conditions, and that’s actual healing, not including the life force. Factor in that at a half-second shorter cast, it’s much less likely to be interrupted. It’s competitive as-is.

Really, the only things I agree with you on are the Soul eater trait being underwhelming and Reaper Shroud being quite good (though perhaps needing a bit more damage on the auto).

Metabattle isn’t always up to date either. Notice, for example, that all the Necro builds with Flesh Wurm note that Plague/Lich Form kill it off, while that is no longer the case.

Just because something doesn’t show up on Metabattle does not mean it’s not considered meta.

You’re right, you didn’t have to go out of your way to stack Might. Niether does the Ranger running Most Dangerous Game . Or the D/D Elementalist where the Might comes almost entirely from the DPS rotation, not from traits. Or the Guardian with Empowering Might and/or auto-attacking with Greatsword. Or the Herald sitting in Glint (Glint is strong enough, might as well).

Yes, Might stacks as part of your regular play. This is hardly unique to Necros, and even the degree is outdone by other professions.

More specifically, minor traits work in as part of your regular play. This is true across the board. You don’t say “I’d better go into stealth to make use of Meld with Shadows.” No. That’s a part of regular play. You don’t say “I’d better crit to get Vigor” as a Guardian/Thief/Mesmer/Elementalist." No, it just is part of regular play. Reaper’s Might is the same way. You don’t say “I’d better Shroud 1 for Might,” it just comes with regular play.

I would personally suggest running Close to Death over Spiteful Spirit, but you are asking for gear. Another skill suggestion is to get either Plague Signet or Consume Conditions on your build. Plague Signet can pretty painlessly replace Suffer, as that gives you both another stunbreak and the same maximum condition cleanse, but is much stronger in single-target situations.

I would swap the positions of the Sigil of Chilling and Sigil of Ice. Chilling is more impactful on Greatsword while Ice fits better on staff (more chills at long range are better to help you catch enemies).

Otherwise, gear looks all right to me.

hackks.3687:

Aktium.9506:

hackks.3687:

Perhaps you should look up the definition of “meta”. One person in one tournament does not = meta. The build is primarily for fun in solo PvP play.

I find it highly doubtful that oRNG would run a build just for fun in the de facto biggest GW2 tournament when there was money on the line. You’re quite daft if you believe so.

I also find it hard to take anything you say even remotely serious when you were unaware of the existence of one of the most defining Warrior traits next to Fast Hands and CI.

what don’t you understand about the term “meta”. seriously. look it up. you don’t even make sense.

and regardless, 5 sec of Might on crit, aoe or otherwise, does not stack up to 17.5s for swinging at nothing, or cleaving at everything and collecting 2 stacks of Might for 12 sec for every target below 50% HP.

seriously. make more sense.

Do some research. One, you’re comparing one trait to two. Two, Siphoned Power has a 1 second ICD, meaning it doesn’t matter if you hit one or five with your Shroud 1. It procs once. For a Reaper, you can at best get 15 stacks of Might from a single RS auto rotation, sure. But this requires:

5 enemies in melee range
All enemies chilled via some effect (possibly RS5)
at least one enemy under 50% that is struck by the 3-target swings
Two traitlines, involving three minors and one major overall.

It’s a large payoff, sure, but it requires very specific circumstances that are easily disrupted or are too dangerous for the Reaper to make that Might important. Chilling Victory specifically will proc on all qualifying targets hit with a single attack, unlike most ICD traits.

For a non-Reaper, you can at best get 3, which requires hitting someone below 50% health.

For both, if you fail to hit, you just get 1 stack.

Yay, I can spend 2-4% life force and .75 seconds to get one stack of Might whenever I want via picking two traitlines. This is soooo good guys…

As for Warrior Greatsword? Yeah, that pretty much is meta right now. It’s very commonly used both in organized play and not in all three areas of the game. Greatsword/hammer is an effective and popular set.

Forceful Greatsword does see use in solo play, just not with Phalanx Strength. 20% reduced Greatsword cooldown, more Might, and increased damage are always good things to have if you are running Greatsword (hint: it’s popular in WvW and PvE, some builds also use it for PvP).

In group play, those two traits are the meta for Warriors, since they allow the Warrior alone to keep everyone at 25 Might.
Consider a single Hundred Blades can crit a total of 27 times. Yup, max Might from one skill.

hackks.3687:

LOL I didn’t ask for a nerf, I asked if it was bugged or performing as intended. Only one person cited an equivalent function in another class. Which is all I asked for.

And we answered in the very first post that it was performing as intended.

And you very much did ask for a nerf.

hackks.3687:

20+ Stacks of Might from a single trait without runes or boon duration investment is out of balance. Period. Simple as that. It is keeping up with whole build dedicated to stacking Might. How much clearer do I have to be?

hackks.3687:

Giving it a 3sec ICD would not break the class or make less competitive. It would simply bring it in line with the rest of the skills in the game that function this way.

hackks.3687:

Why would you use Shroud out of combat? That’s ridiculous.

Look at the functionality in a practical context, like IN combat. Stacking Might regardless of whether you make contact or not is a big deal. Specially when the duration allows you to accumulate as many as 20 stacks through the simple action of spamming a hard-hitting self-sustaining, no CD skill. Not to mention you’re enjoying the defensive benefit of being in the shroud itself. It’s extremely strong, and out of balance with how the rest of might stacking functions.

hackks.3687:

To stack that much Might that efficiently in GW2 requires far more investment than an Adept trait.

Period.

I could go on, and even get posts from other threads. I have lots of material to draw from, but I feel I’d use the character cap quoting them all.

Charblaze.6958:

@Drarnor Kunoram: Can you reliably position minions if the guardian isn’t over the circle?

Indeed I’ve summoned a lot of minions with Raise! thanks to the AoE healing keeping them alive but they helped only by keeping me alive (which is good). I wonder if further testing can find more uses for them in a boss fight.

Only way to position them on the circle if the boss isn’t next to it (it usually meanders over anyway as your entire group stacks on it) is to not be attacking when you pop Rise!. The horrors will all spawn at those you hit, then race back to you if you don’t use any offensive skills.

It’s a weird bit of utility tailored specifically to that fight, but I’ll take it.

Linken.6345:

So Op why shouldent you be able to move?

Because if they couldn’t move, there wouldn’t be a risk that he might get hit in PvP.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It’s not that the Reaper was hard to deal with. It’s DPS is in fact easy to dodge in a 1v1 situation. It’s that even a lazy subpar Reaper Bunker requires at least two DPSers to gut out of a point in a reasonable amount of time before his teammates respawn, run back and regroup to prevent you from capping a point. Good Reaper Bunkers I’ve seen tank out three guys long enough for their team to respawn and get back to a point to keep it neutral. So the problem here is that the Reaper Bunker requires more team resource to actually kill, to be able to take a point, than any other build in the game. This is disruptive to conquest dynamic.

I know this sounds counterintuitive but try sending only one person to deal with a bunker Reaper. Reapers, unlike any other bunker, scale harder the more opponents it faces.

For example, if the Reaper is running Rise! (a good bunker skill, FYI), then each foe he’s fighting effectively gives him an additional 11k (17k with Flesh of the Master) health every 40 seconds (or less, depending on traits). Greatsword auto, 3, and 5 give more life force the more people he hits. So does Reaper Shroud auto’s 3rd hit.

So yeah, if you see a Reaper bunker, try sending fewer people to deal with him. The results might surprise you.

One thing that did come to mind today is that Reaper (and Necro in general, really) does have one odd bit of desirable functionality for the Vale Guardian fight. There are circles that appear that you need to stand in. The more bodies in that circle when it ends, the less damage you take from the follow-up attack.

These don’t have to be player bodies. Minions can be used as well. On top of that, at least in the Vale Guardian fight, the boss and NPC’s don’t seem to attack minions much at all. My Flesh Golem was up for the majority of the fight. There are also adds that spawn in the fight, and, although they are largely ignored due to slow movement and melee range, they will let Reaper shouts (including Rise!) scale up.

hackks.3687:

Finally!!! Someone provides a clear explanation with their example.

Sorry I don’t consider throwing out the name of a trait to be example enough. Providing a description and working functionality with another trait to produce a similar effect is all I asked for. You’ve given it. Thank you!

People, learn from this.

I will now accept it as balanced

You could have always, I dunno, looked it up? We do have a wiki available.

And it’s not like we haven’t been giving clear explanations. You’ve just been sticking fingers in your ears.

Atherakhia.4086:

Is this even true though?

A ranger provides perpetual cripple via auto attack on their highest DPS weapon. Thieves provide 50% uptime on weakness from auto attacking. Even chill, unless you use greatsword (which I assume is a poor option given its DPS?) is done equally well by Rangers?

So even if debuffs weren’t impacted by breakbars the utility you mention isn’t that short in supply and is provided by classes capable of more damage with no sacrifice.

It is true. We provide AoE perma-cripple via Locust swarm (traited), which out-strips a Ranger’s single target perma-cripple. We can provide perma-weakness both single and AoE. And we also can achieve perma-chill with ease. We don’t have to change spec to get Weakness and cripple/chill either.

Optimus Prime.8015:

Another Bug I have seen is the Trait that reduces Cool down of shouts

7% per target hit so 35% but when testing it it didn’t work it didn’t reduce CD of shouts at all

You weren’t paying attention, then, because it works perfectly.

For example, hit 5 targets and the cooldown timer for Your Soul is Mine starts at 13 seconds instead of 20.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

We had 3 DPSers on a point trying to kill a Reaper Bunker. A Ranger chewing his kitten up with a LB from ranged, a Warrior CCing him down 50% of the time so he couldn’t move and then a normal D/P Thief backstabbing and heartseeking the kitten out of this Reaper. It took over 60s in a focused 3v1 to drop this guy and he wasn’t even a cool dodge rolling Bunker genius. He was just face tanking enormous amounts of DPS because he was a Reaper Bunker.

My guess is something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0AN3g12AebC0biFjBLuHGELiUNhowQI6nFAGAA-TZgaAAQZAA

So for nearly half the time, the Ranger was doing nothing at all and the Weakness uptime means the Warrior and Theif had their damage neutered. The build can last a reallly long time, but it can be brought down quickly with a bit of coordination. Get him out of the CPC and spike him after he leaves (or enters) shroud. The main thing is to not spike him when he’s in shroud with Spectral Armor up.

That said, regular Necro pulls this off as well as Reaper does. They lack the Stability, but have massively improved health recovery and condition removal.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And as long as break bars absorb those debuffs and appear on every boss? Not a chance of them being useful.

I hope ANet doesn’t limit their encounter design to boss mobs. That would be a design failing, not really a Necromancer failing.

If they don’t, then Necros still don’t have much to offer. Out AoE damage is good, yes, but not top tier and we don’t handle “moving safe spot” encounters too well.

Even though Reaper is good against trash, it’s still trash mobs. They’ll go down quick to a party of ten regardless.

It needs to stay as “Soul Reaping.” For Necromancer especially, the trait lines are following the names of the attributes in GW1 (Spite is the only new one). Elementalists and Rangers are seeing the same thing with their lines (new ones being Arcana and Skirmishing respectively).

Cogbyrn.7283:

If the break bar didn’t absorb cripple, chill, weakness, and immob, would the conversation just switch to “Necros don’t apply <insert key condition for a particular fight> as well as <insert some other class>”?

Is there any merit to Necromancer being able to potentially fill multiple holes in a potentially changing encounter/raid environment?

Is it possible that debuffing capabilities will be a special consideration on certain fights, just not the one that is currently on display?

The only one of those conditions Necros don’t apply as well or better than anyone else is Immobilize. Cripple, Chill, and Weakness, we’re top tier on applying and maintaining.

Necro’s self-sufficiency may come into play in some encounters, but for what we have right now, it’s just not a thing to be valued. The profession is versatile, sure, but so is every other profession.

And as long as break bars absorb those debuffs and appear on every boss? Not a chance of them being useful.

At least poison still deals damage, so it’s not totally worthless.

Why would gear you already have be changed? Notice you can’t get Sinister gear either.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’m sorry, but how is managing to stay alive while standing in the Legendary Wyvern’s fire as a Reaper for about ten times longer than any other profession/elite spec anything but overpowered?

You said that elite specs are balanced to non-elite specs. I can’t speak for all nine, but for some this isn’t true at all.

There’s more to it than just different approaches.

First off, I don’t think you were actually in the wyvern’s fire. A bunch of Rangers are using the new fire wyvern pet, especially at that fight, so you were probably standing in friendly fire.

How do I know this? Because unless you’re getting a ton of focused healing being spammed on you, you will still drop in about 8 seconds or less of standing in that fire as a Reaper. And that’s assuming you had full life force and health.

You can melee the wyvern as a Reaper with ease, yes, but only from the sides or back.

As I said, we were really unorganized and probably had too much sustain overall and not enough damage (2 Druids , a tempest, Glint/Jallis Herald, Glint/Mallyx Herald, and myself in Zealot’s gear). We got through the first split phase, but took too long and the boss was enraged immedietly after. When he one-shotted me through full life force and health, we were done. No way of recovering against that.

That said, as a Necro, I agree that nothing we have to offer is even remotely wanted in this first raid part other than Transfusion to group downed people for easy rezzing. I place this blame squarely on the break bar mechanic absorbing cripple, chill, weakness, and immobilize. We’re debuffers, and the break bar makes debuffing worthless.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, how many boons did you need to strip every 10 seconds? With a Focus and Path of Corruption, I feel like you could do that without issue if it was just a couple. If it was more than 3, what class can strip 3+ boons every 10 seconds alone? What does that class sacrifice in order to gain that ability?

Few enough that I never even noticed the boons existing in the first place. And all the boon removal was from a single Mallyx Revenant, who probably did it passively through traits.

To be fair, Sinister Engineer is the highest DPS in the game right now, bar none. It is very much on the extreme side.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

elite spec needs to be as balanced as non-elite specs.

Good thing they are. This is learning new mechanics, not dealing with overpowered stuff. You need to get it out of your head that “Reaper”=“Necro” and “Druid”=“Ranger.” How you approach these things needs to be totally different, even if a lot of their capabilities are the same.

Different approach required =/= overpowered.

I just attempted the raid with Blood/Death/Reaper and it went okay, considering we were unorganized and a man down. We didn’t win, of course. I should have attempted it with Curses.

Transfusion proved to be quite handy. Pulling downed people into the orange circles and jumpstarting their rezzing was valuable and given we were very condition-light, Vampiric Presence helped take down red.

Having two heralds and a tempest in the party meant there were no worres about Might whatsoever. Even without me stacking any Vuln or Might myself, we were capped on both.

Jackalrat.5493:

One thing I want to throw out…

Reapers who actually choose to use the greatsword in SPvP are probably among the weakest of the new specs. Dunno if you guys have tried seriously PvPing with it, but get into a fight with a player who knows what they’re doing…prepare to be frustrated.

The only 3 that even register on my radar as nerf-worthy are: Chrono, Scrapper, and possibly Herald.

Reaper Greatsword isn’t a dueling weapon, it’s a teamfight weapon. And in teamfights it shines in a massive way.

hackks.3687:

Even if the “adept” label is no longer relevant, it still stands that every other might stacking builds involves far more investment than a single over-active trait.

Just stop already. It won’t break the trait, build, or class to give Reaper’s Might a 3sec ICD and bring it in line with the rest of the game.

Mountains out of mole hills people. Just report bugs, the game is better for it.

Before nerfing it at all, why not demonstrate how it’s OP?

Because so far, the capability hasn’t been shown to be out of line at all as-is in regular play.

hackks.3687:

The value of those resources varies greatly though from ‘out of combat’ to ‘in combat’.

Using an Auto Attack or 1 Skill regularly through the coarse of a fight is natural to playing the game. You don’t have enough CD skills to endlessly chain them all as they come off CD nor is it a strong way to play the game. Using your AA in a fight is just basic game play. Doing so with a strong Reaper 1 chain with a secondary HP pool active just makes sense. I have no idea what you think you’re arguing.

You’re doing nothing to stop:
Disables
Incoming damage (which ends your might stacking at a certain point)
Enemy heals.
Enemy setup (including Might stacking)
Enemy conditions
Enemy kiting (you literally have no CC while you’re building with Reaper’s Might).
Enemy stomps (unless you’re lucky and they’re low on health)

Basically, anything that matters? You’re not doing much to stop that if you’re might stacking.

Yes, Reaper’s Might gets woven into play all the time. It does not, however, provide high Might on its own while also letting you really contend in a fight. If you’re contending just fine while Might stacking, then I have a hint: you didn’t need the Might. You were going to win that one anyway.

hackks.3687:

To stack that much Might that efficiently in GW2 requires far more investment than an Adept trait.

Period.

Average Might stacks from reaper’s Might alone in actual combat is 8-10. High variance, but that’s the average. Compare, for example, to Empowering Might, which maintains lower Might stacks (5 average), but is also applied among multiple people. It also gives the Might pretty much regardless of what the Guardian is doing, since many of its skills can crit.

And “more investment than an adept trait” is bull now. The investment is the same regardless of if it’s a Grandmaster or Adept. You either take the line or you don’t.

hackks.3687:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hackks.3687:

Vydahr.4285:

Bhawb.7408:

Actually takes 28 seconds of auto attacking, which is impossible without Vital Persistence (which still requires you to take less than 44% of your LF in damage over that time period), for Death Shroud, and around 17s for Reaper’s Shroud. Which just doesn’t happen, you need to use other abilities for utility, you lose LF, etc.

And this is why I ended up swapping in Traveler runes instead of Strength runes. Because You still get decent uptime for might from the extra boon duration, and speed increase and slight condi duration bump is nice as well. Yeah, 5% extra damage is nice, but Traveler just gives more utility. Still plenty of might, too

And that’s why you know it’s OP. Because on it’s own it keeps up with Might stacking builds that invest far more than a single trait.

Just unbelievable that you plebs are so self serving that you’re actually arguing for some kind of entitlement to have an overpowered mechanic in play to carry your kitten.

Because we’re not idiots and recognize that Might Stacking for the sole purpose of Might stacking has a very significant cost associated with it and you will never get to 25 Might purely from Reaper’s Might in actual combat anyway? Consider that even with Vital Persistance, the Reaper is effectively sacrificing 6k health (Maurader’s Amulet) to stack that way. If you aren’t using Vital Persistance, it’s effectively spending 12k health to get that Might stack.

Oh wait, we take half damage in shroud. Right, up those numbers to 12k and 24k.

I’m getting 20+ stacks in any fight that lasts as long as a Heal CD.

Applying impractical contexts such as out of combat usage when it’s quite obviously at it’s peak potency in the middle of a fight just to suit your argument is fail. j/s

The time and life force lost are the same both in and out of combat. The cost is real, plus the action cost. Yes, you’re stacking Might. You’re also letting your opponent do whatever they feel like for 17 seconds minimum.

And it also means you are doing nothing else during that time. You aren’t using movement skills, you aren’t cleansing condis, you aren’t controlling your opponent at all.

Yes, you can stack up Might nicely. There is still a massive opportunity cost to doing it that way. 17 seconds is a long time in combat. You decide to dodge? Now you take longer. Decide to interrupt a heal? Take longer. Need to break stun? Still more time. Took good damage and get forced out of Shroud? Your might stacking is done.

Net result is that Reaper’s might alone will only net you around 8-10 Might on average in typical combat. It has the potential to max it out, sure, but its actual impact is not out of line at all compared to other might-stacking traits across all professions.

Awesome! I get to try it out!

Probably die a lot, but I get to try!

The chaos of teamfights is where Greatsword really shines as a weapon for PvP. So much going on that your own massive hits are actually fairly unlikely to be avoided.

hackks.3687:

Vydahr.4285:

Bhawb.7408:

Actually takes 28 seconds of auto attacking, which is impossible without Vital Persistence (which still requires you to take less than 44% of your LF in damage over that time period), for Death Shroud, and around 17s for Reaper’s Shroud. Which just doesn’t happen, you need to use other abilities for utility, you lose LF, etc.

And this is why I ended up swapping in Traveler runes instead of Strength runes. Because You still get decent uptime for might from the extra boon duration, and speed increase and slight condi duration bump is nice as well. Yeah, 5% extra damage is nice, but Traveler just gives more utility. Still plenty of might, too

And that’s why you know it’s OP. Because on it’s own it keeps up with Might stacking builds that invest far more than a single trait.

Just unbelievable that you plebs are so self serving that you’re actually arguing for some kind of entitlement to have an overpowered mechanic in play to carry your kitten.

Because we’re not idiots and recognize that Might Stacking for the sole purpose of Might stacking has a very significant cost associated with it and you will never get to 25 Might purely from Reaper’s Might in actual combat anyway? Consider that even with Vital Persistance, the Reaper is effectively sacrificing 6k health (Maurader’s Amulet) to stack that way. If you aren’t using Vital Persistance, it’s effectively spending 12k health to get that Might stack.

Oh wait, we take half damage in shroud. Right, up those numbers to 12k and 24k.

It’s hardly OP due to the life force expenditure. 28 seconds to stack it up with death shroud, which not only necessitates Vital Persistance, but also requires barely taking any damage at all while you stack. And if you stop Life Blasting? You lose the stacks fairly quickly.

Even on Reaper, it’s still 17 seconds of doing nothing but auto-attacking. Without Vital Persistance, that’s only 8 seconds left of Shroud assuming you started with 100% and took no damage at all. Even with Vital Persistance, that’s still 34% Life Force lost purely to degeneration.

Yes, you can stack 25 Might out of combat purely with Reaper’s Might. For what purpose? Landing a massive Gravedigger as soon as you enter? You just spent over a third of your only real defense to power up for a skill that can easily miss. And that Might isn’t going to last all that much longer either.

At this point, I really only have three things to complain about on Reaper itself. Two are traits, one is a skill.

1. Chilling Nova. I…just can’t justify taking this trait. Either I’m running Reaper’s Onaslaught or I’m running Augury of Death. The only time this is worth considering is against a lone boss who doesn’t use any soft CC’s. And due to how Defiance is changing, it loses a lot of its luster even then. I’m not sure what can be done with its current functionality, though. It may require a total rework to be an attractive choice. Perhaps apply a couple seconds of Slow when we chill, same cooldown?

2. Soul Eater. The Life Siphon on Gravedigger only isn’t making me want to use the trait. The siphon is way too weak to even consider this over Chilling Victory or Decimate Defenses. Plus, what is it trying to do for us? If I want sustain, I go with Chilling Victory. Damage? Decimate Defenses. Perhaps this trait could do something else, other than siphon health? What if it made Gravedigger grant you Protection or Retaliation per target hit? Or perhaps apply Weakness? What if it gave Gravedigger a benefit when hitting foes above 50% health (which could be any of the suggestions I already made)?

3. “Suffer!” This shout will always be compared to Plague Signet. There is just no way around it, since they are both instant-cast condition transfers with the same maximum. The question is, is the damage and Chill worth the stun break and always maximum power (plus Might and boon corruption when traited)? Not normally, no. Something needs to be done with this shout to make it not the “bad Plague Signet.” And just making it a stunbreak is not it. It needs to do something different from Plague Signet.

Gerrark.9870:

Bhawb.7408:

hackks.3687:

If you think stacking 20+ might freely with only a single adept trait (Reaper’s Might) isn’t over tuned then I can’t help you

Defense is not a problem I’ve been having with Reaper

“Freely”, yeah all you have to do is be allowed to auto attack 20 times in a row during a limited form.

You’re telling me you don’t often find yourself AAing enemies uninterrupted for 10 seconds straight in pvp?

I sure don’t.

Of course, if I did, I’d be using dagger auto instead. Or Lich Form.

The main thing with what Gee has been doing is actually not buffing what was already good. Notice, for example, that the balance changes have not touched a single Spectral skill, Dagger, or Wahorn.

What he has been buffing, though, is our underused and weak skills and traits. Buffing the weak stuff while not touching the good is what really brings build diversity.

And really? Necros probably have the most build variety of any profession now.