Guild Wars 2

Poor Frost Spirit. That skill’s group viability just got destroyed.

Something to note now is that axe auto now deals a bit higher damage than staff auto. This is after accounting for weapon strength.

You…do realize the whole discussion is regarding the hypothetical scenario that Necros got full healing in shroud, right? We all know what happens now.

Killyox.3950:

It was already +100% in the last bwe. Meaning fury went from 20% to 40%

Okay, so wiki is old.

Daniel Handler.4816:

1. That failure is something common in pvp then. For .5 of a second is 1/5 of rapid fire. A true shot is done in .75 of a second. Killshot in 1.25 of a second. And with quickness it becomes even harder.

2. Aoe stealth is not a niche scenario. It is one of the basis of wvw zerg combat. It is the reason why we don’t allow people to use minipets in wvw.

3. In wvw and pvp, the radius of explusion is enough that I can summon the tablet in area they cannot see, and still use the skill. Telling the tablet to move through their line of sight is essentially telling all enemies “hey I’m going to use that skill”. As there is no reason to move a tablet to the enemy otherwise. Don’t deny people the benefit of swapping legends during normal zerg play, all to save 2 seconds of time.

4. You describe the delay of moving the tablet 900 range kitten of second. I debate that number, but we can still work that number into this example. For instance when you have moved 1350 feet away from the tablet it now takes .75 of a second to move to my location. This is more than double the summon time of .25 second. Your version doesn’t only penalize ranged casters, it also penalizes people who want to move.

1. If your ally is out of defenses of their own and is under projectile assault, that is something you should have noticed if you’re playing a support build. A couple hits of Rapid Fire won’t kill anyone and Kill Shot, even with quickness, still gives enough time to swap and move the tablet in the way.

2. AoE stealth mid-combat is a niche scenario. AoE stealth to engage is not. However, if you’re engaging, you wouldn’t be in Ventari at that moment, so there’s no tablet to worry about hiding. If you are in combat, your enemies know where you were anyway, tablet or no. The presence of the tablet won’t give you away unless you’re an idiot.

3. They can see you are in Ventari stance. They can see you are using some long cast. There is only one thing you could possibly be doing. The tablet being “hidden” means virtually nothing.

4. 1/2 second cast to summon the tablet. So you’re losing… no time at all, as to move from 1350 to 1500 range to despawn the tablet takes more time than the 1/4 second difference between summon time and move time. In this case, you’re also describing having legend swapped too early, as it takes ~5 seconds to walk that far from your tablet in combat. So no, it doesn’t punish people for moving. It punishes them for making obvious mistakes. You swapped to Ventari for a reason. Why didn’t you keep the tablet near you? Aiding someone else? Fine, but then you don’t get to complain about it not being near you when you need a skill.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Sabre.8627:

From the stream:
“So we skipped over some stuff but there’s a lot of changes here for Scepter specifically”

I’m so excited for tomorrow, i’m gonna sit in PvP all night and play a Condi build for the first time in months.

Ha, I went ahead and did that tonight in preparation.

Turns out, at least at my MMR, no one plays Terrormancer anymore so everyone forgot how to deal with it.

That’s basically at any MMR, really. Nobody does play Terrormancer anymore.

1. The warrior isn’t getting healing from nowhere just like the Necro wouldn’t be getting it from nowhere. The sources are the same, and in-combat healing in general tends to be more of an over-time thing outside of your own heal skill. So yes, time spent protecting your health matters a lot.

2. Again, it’s because people aren’t waiting for a defensive skill to go off to throw out heals that uptime matters. The heals are coming in all the time, but usually incoming damage is mitigating their effectiveness. Those defensive abilities are when that is not the case, so higher uptime means more effectively healed.

3. If the fight isn’t lasting for several minutes, it’s because one side is dead quickly. It’s the rare fight in PvP that doesn’t last at least 30 seconds. If one side is dead quickly, clearly healing (even incidental) really wasn’t much of a thing. Of course, in such a short fight, it is possible the Necro spends 80%+ in shroud himself, especially once Reaper hits. Even without Reaper, popping Locust Swarm and jumping into shroud is a common tactic.

4. In a teamfight? Yes. Yes that would happen. It’s easy in a teamfight to receive massive amounts of healing with D/D eles, shoutbows, and/or bunker guardians on the team. Even just a 3v3, which happens decently often, throws out a lot more healing than you would expect. Again, I will point to Blighter’s Boon, because we have experienced that. Heals of less than 150 and yet it completely screwed the “focus the Necro first” strategy. Those same classes that are spitting out boons to us? They’re simultaneously farting out much larger amounts of healing. This is largely incidental in nature and part of standard rotations! So focusing them when they’re healing the necro is no easier than doing it now.

5. I have never described anything of the sort regarding death shroud, but it is a powerful defensive tool. Managing shroud in teamfights is easier than you make it out to be via Locust Swarm and spectrals. Spending 10-15 seconds is easy, and you’re not “retreating.” You’re still keeping up offensive pressure. Regenerating life force in 15 seconds is likewise fairly easy.

6. This is more relating to your response to Bhawb’s comment, but if there aren’t allies around, not a ton changes from how we are now. Other than Transfusion getting overpowered as hell, anyway.

Congrats, you can list sources of healing. It should be noted, however, that Blood Bond should heal through death shroud, but is bugged to not do so.

However, that list is helpful. It brings up new steps that can be taken in the interest of improving Necro healing and reception of teamplay. For example, the next step I would do (and would actually do it in tomorrow’s patch, but I’m not a dev) would be simply letting the Regeneration boon, Parasitic Contagion, and Spiteful Renewal heal through shroud.

Notice I said “step.” Gear (including food) procs would be the next step. Skills would start to be expanded on next.

The way I see it is that Thieves should fight dirty. They should always be at a disdvantage in a straight up brawl, but using “unfair” tactics well should result in them winning more often than not.

Unfair could be blind or interrupt spam, teleporting all over the place, or, yes, stealth.

But trying to circle around trading blows? Thief should lose. Like, all the time.

Lily.1935:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lily.1935:

I’m going to go in the reverse direction. You see, giving allies buffs in any form like this would be uncharacteristic of us. how ever. How about this.

Give necromancer a debuff that makes foes incapable of blocking. Like on well of darkness.

Already been suggested in the thread

fair enough. Still some well of darkness use would be nice.

Well of Darkness does need something else, for sure. This could thematically work out, actually, as it’s too dark for them to see attacks coming to properly block them.

Could pulse a 1 second debuff that prevents blocking from working.

Okay, please, try punctuation. It really makes things a lot easier to read and does a better job of getting your point across. If you’re posting from your phone…you can still use punctuation.

Aside from that, I was referring more along the lines of Unholy Sanctuary (Shrouded Removal is a great trait too, it’s just Master tier where things are iffy), but Blood Magic does a decent job as well. It’s rather good even if you don’t wield dagger (Blood Bond is a good trait, albeit bugged to not heal as it should through shroud). Life From Death is a very strong heal with some healing power, though without, you may go with Vampiric Presence instead for some in-shroud sustain. Or Banshee’s Wail for more sustain of shroud itself.

Brokensunday.4098:

not op the necro alone can’t heal while in ds even if they allow it because ds interupts skills. yes if they allow it it will be good but def not op and what is the point to get heals if your life is 100% your comment only shows how good are the ranger and rev heals nothing more

The Necro can heal himself in death shroud with trait choices already, and can actually recover a very respectable amount of health that way. It’s easy to get a healing skill’s worth of recovery while in death shroud as a base Necro. Reaper will be able to do moreso (though, being at greater risk, deserves it).

Again, I agree we need more than we currently get, and allied heals need to not be totally wasted on us while we’re in shroud, but 100% healing is not it. A reduced amount would be fine.

Lily.1935:

I’m going to go in the reverse direction. You see, giving allies buffs in any form like this would be uncharacteristic of us. how ever. How about this.

Give necromancer a debuff that makes foes incapable of blocking. Like on well of darkness.

Already been suggested in the thread

IIRC, that’s getting changed in the next beta. It increased the effect of Fury by 50% in the last beta, making Fury grant 30% crit chance instead of 20%. Now the trait will double Fury’s effectiveness to provide 40% crit chance instead.

Windsagio.1340:

problem I think is people going the wrong direction;

Realistically the only viable healers are Druid, Revenant, and Guardian/DH.

Nobody else remotely has the healing sustain to keep people going. Almost every variant has been tried.

In content where healing isn’t necessary at all, sure. Eles can output pretty strong healing as well.

Of course, healing is a duty that can be split over the party fairly well. I imagine a dedicated healer won’t be necessary, but without one the party will have to dedicate a few more skill slots/traits to make up for it.

flow.6043:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Real mature, there, flow. You don’t have evidence to back up your claim whereas looking at how durable what we already get makes us backs me up rather well.

Chill dude. Also, the statement “look how durable..” doesn’t back you up any better than me saying “look how fast I die, and look how I wouldn’t have died if I actually got the healing my ally tried to use on me.”

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And again, that healing is from only one player. More meta team comps would include a Shoutbow Warrior and D/D Celementalist, meaning equivalent or better heals rolling in which, on the Necro, cannot be counteracted with DPS

And again, how would a necro benefit from such a composition more than a different class? Are you suggesting that dps is a counter to invuln, blocks or evades? Are you suggesting that another ele in that group couldn’t rotate through fire and air attunement while your rev, shoutbow and second ele are healing that player for the full amount until that ele can heal himself when back in water?
And no, Shroud having a higher uptime doesn’t make it better or more sustainable than those other mechanics.
All you do is come up with outlier scenarios that only prove my point rather than yours.

Yes, higher uptime does make it more sustainable. When you are protecting your health for longer periods, that automatically makes it more sustainable. That’s pretty much the definition of “sustain” is protecting your health for as long as possible, and yes, Necros can protect theirs for far longer than anyone else. Where we currently fall short is in the ability to replenish health, even though we can protect it for longer.

I am not bringing up outlier or unlikely scenarios; anyone with team-wide healing would make a significant impact on the Necro staying alive. DPS is a counter to healing, not blocks or invulnerabilities.

Think: how much healing can you recieve during a 3 second block followed by 4 second direct damage immunity? A lot, right? After all, Warriors enjoy this and don’t become overpowered.

How much healing can you receive during a 15 second period where your health can’t be touched? Even in teamfights, it’s not terribly difficult for a Necro to spend that long in Shroud. The correct answer should be “over twice as much”.

Now, how often can a Warrior benefit from Shield Stance into Endure Pain? On average, about once every 30 seconds.

How often can a Necro benefit from Shroud? On average, about a 15 second period in between.

So the expected healing to a Necro while their health is protected? Roughly four times greater than that which a Warrior can enjoy. And the Necro doesn’t lose out on protection against condition damage or unblockable attacks.

And you keep saying to ignore the betas because “everyone was bad then.” Yes, everyone was bad. Including the Necros that nobody could kill.

Real mature, there, flow. You don’t have evidence to back up your claim whereas looking at how durable what we already get makes us backs me up rather well.

Yes, we need more than we currently have, especially if ANet wants dedicated healer specs to be a thing in this game. This I will back up entirely.

But full healing? No we do not.

My Revenant example is not a one-way street. The Revenant, for example, does have the ability to run rather defensively even while sticking with just Ventari out. They will be a tough nut to crack even without the Necro pressuring and running interference. It’s not difficult to get high Protection and Blind uptime (actually easier with running Ventari than other legends) and they can get on-demand Stability (2 stacks if running Herald, one of which lasts for ~6 seconds) without using a skill. Factor in evasion/block skills from weapons… yeah. And none of this is reducing their healing output, since it’s largely instant cast.

And again, that healing is from only one player. More meta team comps would include a Shoutbow Warrior and D/D Celementalist, meaning equivalent or better heals rolling in which, on the Necro, cannot be counteracted with DPS

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Here are some scenarios.

Your ally at range wants the projectile destruction.

You swap to Ventari while mass invisibility just went off. Oops. They aoe the spot where the tablet is.

You want to use energy expulsion but you don’t want your enemies to see you moving the tablet.

You are running and swap to ventari. At around 1400 feet you need a skill. You have no idea where the tablet is , you have to choose between continuing to run and hoping it despawns, or telling it to come to your location and waiting for it.

1. In the event that your ally cannot handle the short amount of time it takes for you to move the tablet over to him, this is a failure on your part as the Revenant for not having the situational awareness to anticipate the attack.

2. Niche scenario at best, as Mass Invisibility is usually communicated if used beforehand and, if you’re already in combat, they’re AoE’ing the spot you were just in anyway. If you’re trying to surprise someone with Mass Invisibility, you wouldn’t be in Ventari. You would be in the legend that has superior (read: any at all) offense.

3. Energy Expulsion goes off wherever you last put the tablet. As you pointed out above, the opponent knows where the tablet is; you can’t hide it. I’m not sure why not wanting them to see you move the tablet is of any importance since it has to stay still for 1 second anyhow.

4. You know exactly where the tablet is: where you were when you swapped. This is not a difficult thing to figure out. So you move the tablet to a place in front of you if you need it ASAP or let it expire from range and place it anew.

flow.6043:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Also, Flow, now that we have a bit more healing in death shroud and with Reaper incoming, I can say with absolute certainty that unrestricted healing in death shroud would be horrendously OP. Even just with adding siphons to what can heal us, Necro survivability jumped pretty significantly when running blood magic. Blighter’s Boon has already been catching complaints about how tanky it makes us.

If heals of less than 150 are doing that, what do you think heals of 3k+ would do?

3k+ in what time frame? Once every 10 sec maybe, that would change nothing except QoL for team skill rotations.

A single Ventari Revenant pumps that out every 2 seconds with ease, and that’s without investing in healing power or outgoing healing. With, you’re easily seeing heals of 3k per second if they’re being conservative with their energy. If they’re not, you’re looking at easy 6k h/s

And that is just one player.

100% healing in Death Shroud would make us the most broken thing the game has seen. This much I can garuntee. Healing while your health can’t be touched is much, much stronger than healing normally. I cannot stress this enough.

“But other classes can get healed through blocks/invulnerabilitie/etc.” Stop. Just stop.

Do you know why those don’t unbalance the game, but doing the same with shroud would? Because Shroud’s uptime is vastly higher than that of blocks or invulnerabilities. It’s not uncommon for Necros to spend 40% of a fight in Shroud. It is uncommon for anyone else to spend that much time blocking or going invulnerable.

Plus, most blocks and invulnerabilities don’t let you keep up offense during them. Shroud does.

Necros can make a strong showing as secondary healer, but theirs is burst only for groups. It’s easy for a Necro to hit 12k group heals, but that has ~30 second cooldown.

Shiki.7148:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Main difference is that the Necro doesn’t actually want the conditions on him, he just has things he can do with the conditions themselves.

Mallyx revenants wanted conditions on them to empower their skills, but (other than elite) had nothing he could do with those conditions.

Everything a Necro can do with conditions on them is some way of getting rid of them while a Mallyx Revenant wanted them to stay on him.

Thats fine, however they did not remove the “inrease stuff x by amount y per condition” , but the selfapplied conditions themselves; I have to admit though, I’d rather keep current Necro corruptions than face a complete annihilation of the corruption skills as shown in the Mallyx skill chnages. they basically removed that from the game.

They did remove the benefits from reaching a threshold of conditions on Mallyx skills. The only one that cares about how many conditions you have on you is the heal.

Note I didn’t say that letting us stunbreak in Shroud would be OP, just that it would be the most impactful change.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

Rampage.7145:

I really don´t see how could this possibly afftect balance too badly like, u cannot heal while on DS so using heal would be stupid, u cannot use lich or plague any different than u would do it anyways. Power well necro does not benefit from it DPS wise, it is the same to drop wells and go into DS than being already onn DS while droping your wells, condi necro does not benefit a whole lot from staying on DS for long periods since you loose DPS if you do so, only thing that can probably benefit from it is having your signets pasive bonuses (which you should anyway) while on DS.

Actually, the big thing would be now having stunbreaks available in shroud.

Charblaze.6958:

I disagree on point a. Death shroud’s skills are terrible, they do good damage (if you are not interrupted and your LB are not sidestepped)

Clearly, you don’t use death shroud very often or you would know that life blast is impossible to sidestep.

Heck, you can’t even juke it with shadowsteps. Life Blast and Dark Path will both turn 90 degrees or more to hit their target. They’re more accurate than the best guided missiles in the world.

Also, Flow, now that we have a bit more healing in death shroud and with Reaper incoming, I can say with absolute certainty that unrestricted healing in death shroud would be horrendously OP. Even just with adding siphons to what can heal us, Necro survivability jumped pretty significantly when running blood magic. Blighter’s Boon has already been catching complaints about how tanky it makes us.

If heals of less than 150 are doing that, what do you think heals of 3k+ would do?

Main difference is that the Necro doesn’t actually want the conditions on him, he just has things he can do with the conditions themselves.

Mallyx revenants wanted conditions on them to empower their skills, but (other than elite) had nothing he could do with those conditions.

Everything a Necro can do with conditions on them is some way of getting rid of them while a Mallyx Revenant wanted them to stay on him.

nekretaal.6485:

It’s too bad our necromancer wells aren’t unblock able.

A warrior with Riposte (which blocks only one attack) can run around in a necromancer well forever and never get hit.

Ummm, all wells are unblockable. Always have been.

Exedore.6320:

You get 4 tomes per completed track and I think one each time you rank up.

I have 1300, I wish I could sell them.

You kind of can. Each one gives a spirit shard if used by a level 80.

Ash Onix.1356:

Sorry I forgot, only positive feedback. You are all right, I must have not been in my right mind. Troll sickness or something. Thank you all for showing me the errors of my way. I’ll go shut up in the corner now like a good little consumer.

There are three kinds of feedback: Positive feedback, negative feedback, and pointless feedback.

Positive feedback is describing what went well and why. Negative feedback is describing what didn’t go well and why. Both of these are incredibly important to developers.

Unfortunately, complaining that the beta weekends happened to line up with your wife’s work schedule is the last kind of feedback: pointless. Like it or not, a single person’s work schedule has virtually no impact whatsoever on the development of a product created for literally millions. Unless that person happens to be one of the developers, of course.

Does it suck she couldn’t/can’t play the beta weekends? Sure it does! I was annoyed that the first beta weekend happened to fall on the same weekend that my entire family was in town for a big celebration for my grandparents. Did I expect ANet to change anything because I couldn’t test? No, because I knew that I ultimately didn’t matter. Anything I caught would probably be brought up by someone else. It’s just how development works.

Similarly, I missed the first Southsun Cove weekend with the massive Karka invasion simply because I happened to be at a convention that weekend. Would there have been a point in complaining to ANet or the convention staff that I couldn’t do both? That was even more impactful than missing a beta weekend because I knew I would never have a chance to play that content.

Lightsbane.9012:

the dulfy notes say 900 radius. I’m assuming this is a typo, but clarification would be marvelous.

That is what the devs actually stated on stream. I’m sure they misspoke.

If they didn’t…that’s some serious AoE.

I can pretty well guarantee that dedicated healers will not be necessary for raids. Group healing may be, but dedicated healers will not.

Group healing is something that can be spread over the entire party. For example, a Guardian could run Healing Breeze instead of Shelter or Litany of Wrath in order to help the party survive. Necros could trait into Blood Magic for Transfusion instead of Curses or Soul Reaping. Thieves might even break out venom share with skelk venom!

There is also the possibility of using sets with Healing Power as a secondary stat like Zealot’s. Two Zealot’s geared party members could probably replace a Cleric’s geared and a Zerker’s geared in raid content.

Or you could centralize the healing duties onto one or two people, letting the others trait/build for more DPS and control.

Since all professions are capable of contributing to the healing effort, the need of an actual dedicated healer is really nonexistant. It’s a viable option, but not a hard requirement.

Something I just noticed in the trailer.

Where are Rox and Frostbite? Neither one shows up!

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

The change in lingering curse only decrease condi necro’s bleed by 30-15% tbh, since the same traitline already increase bleed duration by 20% and condi necro generally run nightmare for 15% condi duration and fear damage. Even more negligible in WvW/PvE situations due to food but power dominated there anyway.

Lingering Curse affects the base duration of the Scepter conditions, meaning condition duration works off of the new value.

For example, on live, the 5 second base Bleeds we currently have on Scepter become 10 second base Bleeds . But now is when bleed duration gets applied, so with Lingering Curse, you currently get 14 second bleeds on the auto.

This will get nerfed kinda kitten duration, but maybe the extra bleed stack will make up for it.

CodeHavoc.7926:

I still don’t want minions to evaporate when you go to down state but that’s just me.

They don’t…

Once the balance patch hits, I would say trait Master of Corruption and pack Corrosive Poison Cloud. 8 seconds of projectile destruction every 20 seconds is actually pretty good. Plus the Weakness.

In my view, Master of Corruption just got a massive buff because CPC is now going to actually be a good skill.

Nova Stiker.8396:

It’s like trying to snare a necromancer, last time I checked they don’t give a kitten.

That’s mostly because Necros never move fast anyway, so snares don’t change anything on that front.

Reaper and Chronomancer are the only ones likely to become meta for their respective classes in PvE. Maybe Herald for that delicious +50% boon duration sharing.

On a related note, the stream never mentioned what the Tiger’s F2 skill was. Could we get that info, pretty please?

Plague doesn’t need it. Reveal wouldn’t affect how you use it anyway.

Your target is visible? You’re pulsing blind and poison.

Your target is stealthed? You’re pulsing blind and poison.

Your target is revealed? You’re pulsing blind and poison.

Lily.1935:

SlyDevil.3952:

Ehm, you need to check your meta build. MS cd is 20secs, you could call it a 21 sec rotation if you wanted to add that you lava font before the meteor shower. Sustained damage doesn’t have this mysterious 30second threshold, it just means it’s a repeatable rotation for all skills included. A burst ele rotation can include lightning storm, dragon’s tooth, lava font, pheonix/burning speed, meteor shower, ice storm, frost fan, deep freeze for tempest defense, eruption, ice spike, fiery whirl, fire storm, fireballs. The sustained rotation is just lava font, fireballs, MS.

Burst is dps, they aren’t 2 separate entities, you just have a shorter interval over which you’re calculating the damage.

Edit: Forgot to include attunement swapping in the burst possibilities, extra 20% multiplier during ice spike, ice storm and parts of lightning storm/MS/lava font depending on which element you start your rotation in.

Wow, the wiki is very wrong.. Oh well no biggy. Also meta battle doesn’t account for everything. It doesn’t even seem to have appropriate builds for people in PvE outside of prebuffing teams. Which is designed around burst.

And let me clarify. When I’m talking about DPS I’m talking about Sustaind DPS, not Burst DPS. Just to clear up the confusion. I know its my fault, I should have been more clear.

I think you might be forgetting that the Ele build traits for shorter fire attunement cooldowns which, being a 33% reduction, means that Meteor Shower is on a 20 second cooldown.

Reaper’s Shroud can flow very easily into damage rotations and in fact is a necessary part of maximizing them. That’s where the Might and Vuln stacking come from.

I’ve found you don’t camp Reaper’s Shroud. You weave it in.

Relshdan.6854:

maybe in raids, only if chill has a major advantage in the events that happen inside the raid instances….

so not likely. boons dominate debuffs….this will not change in the new content. defiance bar destroys reaper usefulness….everyone has soft cc, so why bring a reaper if chill only damages the defiance bar like a random cripple from another class that brings boons?

Yeah, the DoT on a bar that’s only there briefly and invites hard CC to spike it down is going to be sooooo helpful….

Defiance bars effectively render soft CC useless, unfortunately. There may be other mobs that we need soft CC for, but it will be worthless on bosses.

Necros are very close to being in a perfect spot. What needs to be addressed are mostly weapon skills and some utility skills (Corrosive Poison Cloud, Blood is Power, Well of Darkness, Signet of Undeath). Perhaps some QoL improvements (making Spectral Grasp more reliable and Vital Persistence baseline) and changing the Soul Comprehension trait to not be totally worthless. Possibly a buff to Vampiric Aura.

All in all, though, there really isn’t much to really complain about regarding Necro at the moment. And that’s both playing as and playing against.

Perhaps it was just the people I was fighting, but I was having very little issue in landing Gravediggers in PvP. Will you land them all? No, but you don’t need to either. It has a short cooldown, even if you miss, and there are ways to set it up. Running Greatsword and Chilled to the Bone means there are 4 must-avoid skills, any of which can be unblockable via NCSY. How many dodges do people have again?

Zenith.7301:

Robert Gee.9246:

Zenith.7301:

Stop=/= degen.

If the rate at which the degen happens does not overcome the rate at which the bar recovers, it is not stopping.

And the degen is pathetic to be honest. Did you even play the last beta weekend event? This solution was already in it, and my chills hardly contributed to a broken bar.

I want to correct a few misconceptions here:

1. Not all defiant bars have regen, in these cases soft CC will degen the bar as long as they are up until broken.
2. This new system was not present in BWE2, it is new as of BWE3.

Hm, strange, doing the personal story on my necromancer I did not use Infusing Terror against the champion, so I mostly camped greatsword auto and grave digger.

Maybe the ranged NPC’s applied some CC of their own I did not notice.

Question, did blind work on defiance bars in BWE2? Because I did use Nightfall and I recall you guys doing the announcement on blinds way before the other soft CC’s.

Blinds always worked against break bars, even going back to the first Stronghold beta. Remember, that was the first time break bars were publicly testable.

nekretaal.6485:

Still slowest.

Can’t really use the leap for land speed because you lose 4% shroud per second & have a 10 second RS cooldown. & in-combat your RS uptime is less than half of DS uptime because the shroud melts so fast.

Plus, since you are theorycrafting and not game experience crafting, I do remind you that DS #2 has a much longer range.

Dark Path is practically useless for chasing, since anyone with Swiftness outruns it. Plus, in chasing scenarios, it’s actual effective range is probably actually the same as Death’s Charge, but Death’s Charge doesn’t require landing a hit and also has half the cooldown (at the very least, is available whenever you enter reaper’s shroud).

Skoigoth.9238:

@Drarnor Kunoram: Yeah, kinda sad, but true =/ Although, I think MH Dagger is still way better off than any of the weapons I mentioned (expect Staff maybe, idk, that´s debatable).

It is, yeah, but the tweaks it needs are overall minor. Life Siphon needs a shorter cast time and Dark Pact needs something else, considering Pin Down is the same cooldown and immobilize duration, but also double the range, a combo finisher, and applies 6 bleeds on a shorter cast time. Oh, and it pierces.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

So its only people who play some kind of tanky/cele/bunker builds that don’t like this map?

No, its pve players who dont like pvp to begin with who cant get their dailies or reward track done that dont like this map. This is why foefire (the pve map) is the most popular map for both trashpugs and pug stomping pre-mades.

Pretty sure Foefire is the most popular map period primarily because of the massive size of the Graveyard point drastically weakening decap builds and basically forcing teamfighting to secure the point.