Other classes are locked into low damage modes to deal damage? Pretty sure that has never been the case.
Deficiencies in Scourge? There are craptons! Pathetic mobility, no attack negation mechanics (which all other classes have in spades), no Stability, and the damage can largely be avoided by moving 5 feet to the side.
Literally the least they can do is have the condition pressure that they are intended to have.
i can’t remember the skill ever functioning this way but i heard it from several people now so i guess it’s true. I would just like to know what the reasoning behind this change was. When i don’t remember it happening it must have been before the condition limit got raised, so maybe it had tactical reasons, which might be resolved by now, and then they simply forgot about it.
Originally, Putrid Mark transferred all conditions off of you and allies to enemies struck. This was not only honestly too powerful of a skill, but it also had some really weird distribution aspects for the transfer. Just adding cleansing to allies (instead of transfer) will probably be fine.
That makes no sense … so when you are in shroud, it’s not a constant demand on your LF? It sure is!!!
If anything Scourge is broken in that sense … I can regain LF AND use those my skills that require it; not an option in shroud. That’s why the current LF gains with scourge are balanced with shroud IMO.
Besides … since when was anyone prevented from using a good LF gain weapon on Scourge if they want to spam shades? I didn’t see that mechanic when I tested it … #choices.
Condition builds don’t spend much time in Shroud, so they can refill fully anyway in between uses. I don’t see why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp.
If you use a good life force gain weapon, your damage drops by a crapton. We’re talking 25-40% drop in damage here. It’s not really a choice when you’re locked into a low damage mode just to use your abilities that you need to deal damage.
Once people learn to not stand in the Sand Shades, I think you’ll find Scourge is really not very strong. Torch is fine, but the Punishment skills and survival tools are incredibly weak. Its only real defense is killing your opponent before they can kill you (which, admittedly, it’s very good at if they stand near a shade).
If the problem is that Scourge consumes LF at a much higher rate, the solution isn’t a weapon that gives more LF .. that’s nonsense. So you make a weapon that’s sufficient to gain LF on Scourge … then is OP for life force gain on not-Scourge? I don’t think you have thought this through very well, Lad. Besides … nothing has prevented you at all from using a weapon that gives you good LF gain on Scourge.
So we are back to the relevance of making choices, which you seem to continually ignore … and of course my complete lack of comprehension that making these choices has been available through weapon swapping for 5 years now … and will continue to be in the future.
Limiting the weapon section further by this horribly lifeforce gain on skills is just deadly in terms of build variety.
Is it? It’s a fact that weapon swapping addresses these kinds of problems for the last 5 years in the game; I have no reason to believe all of the sudden, that mechanic will stop working on one espec.
It really isn’t, though. Condi Reaper doesn’t stay in Shroud for long, so the current levels of life force gain are sufficient to keep you topped off. Adding more life force gain won’t change that because you’re already full life force.
Condi Necro has the same situation: you don’t want to use Shroud for even a millisecond more than you have to to survive because it kills your pressure. Current levels of life force gain are adequate (and why wouldn’t you want core condi Necro to have a buff? It’s downright terrible.)
Scourge, however, is constantly demanding life force, and current options just aren’t enough without brutally murdering your DPS, as you’re built for condition damage and not Power.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Unyielding Blast applies Vulnerability multiple times if shades overlap in area. Dhuumfire does not apply Burning multiple times in this same situation.
One of these two is a bug.
People keep saying that the big shade is necessary, and I just don’t see it. I get much more value out of just using the smaller shades when I need them, and the increased flexibility is just amazing. Dropping a Shade on a downed body off point is hilariously fun because you can now basically ignore them as you fight. If you do that with the Greater shades, you lose so much pressure it’s not funny.
too bad desert shroud is on a 16sec cooldown vs normal shroud which is 10…
20 seconds cooldown. It’s only 16 with Vital Persistence.
I think Scourge Barriers need some numbers buffs (especially to the base value), but I don’t think the decay rate is really that impactful. I don’t actually see them decay much during gameplay.
All of those work on F5.
Uhh, most of that barrier requires life force. And unlike Shroud, it doesn’t take half damage.
All those traits apply to the F5. Still a massive nerf to them, but we do get some use.
I just can’t help but feel it would be even stronger with Death Magic traded out for, well, any other line.
Dolyak Stance not functioning right now has a lot to do with Rangers being easier kills.
Really though, all you need to beat a Scourge is equip a ranged weapon and keep moving at range, throwing out some CC.
Thank you guys for giving me this information. As it stands right now I am on vacation and couldn’t play this weekend. Keep the information coming. If someone could test unholy sanctuary for me in a build that is some data I’m still missing. I need to know how all of this works before I can make a post on this subject. Much appreciate. If you can get me a video and describe your experience even better! Thanks in advance.
Unholy Sanctuary heals you during Desert Shroud’s pulses and procs Desert Shroud when you would die. Also, with Scourge equipped, Unholy Sanctuary requires 25% Life Force to trigger instead of 10% normally.
Under no circumstances is it remotely a good idea to equip it.
Honestly, it’s just becoming increasingly obvious having two people design eight of the nine specializations ended up being a mistake on ArenaNet’s part, at least not without having more feedback from the community in the design process.
No matter how talented Gee and Huang are at designing these specializations, there are severe issues with multiple specializations that need a lot more work before they’re truly ready. Obviously Deadeye is one of the more apparent examples, but you can really look at most of these specs and say there are fundamental design issues with most of them.
Dropping these specializations into the middle of a PvP season with the expansion launch will be an unmitigated disaster. They’re giving themselves so little time to polish these specializations, and I think the expansion and the game overall will greatly suffer for it.
Yea, we ideally need 1 dev per class for next time. Or each dev only doing 2 classes (with 1 dev only doing 1).
Also I find it funny that one of the most ardent defenders of this asinine damage doesn’t even understand how to correctly build malice, considering he thinks it involves being stealthed for over 30 seconds……
Yeah, the fact it builds faster when you are actually fighting means the high damage is actually even more realistic to see in real combat situations.
Not 100k high, but 20k isn’t unreasonable.
If there is any class in gw2 that has been trash for longer than ranger, that is necro (unless we are exclusively talking about wvw zerg game play where necro is been great). Scourge right now is broken but based on the history of necro/reaper it will be nerfed to garbage (pve) or barely playable without support ele (pvp) soon enough.
I wouldn’t even say Scourge is broken right now. Once people learn to not stand on top of the shades, its impact will drop off pretty quick.
Nah, I’ve seen a lot more unicorns than ANet devs playing Necro.
Serpent siphon looks like some kind of joke to me. Can someone explain who would pick serpent siphon?
No, because as it stands, there’s nobody who would.
Said this in another thread but Shades now stack for F1 proccing. Yesterday targets were only hit by 1 Shade proc no matter how many Shades were around them.
This also applies the F5 proccing per tick and Dhuumfire.
If true, that really kills any attraction to Sand Savant in my opinion.
Dump Spite for Blood Magic if you’re trying to support. You need Transfusion for that.
use curses with power Scourge. Curses 2 2 1
Path of corruption let you reap 2 boons each time and cleanse 2 condis from allies at the same time with nefarious favor. You have weakness spam and auto condi transfer.??
Since when does PoC cleanse conditions….
ops mixed with other post, fixed it thanks. You can have 4 condi cleanse with nefarious favor when you use one shade since it is on you and shade. but it was for other psot
Mhh that sounds like a bug. if i understand the text correctly you should get the effect only one time.
You and your shade convert conditions from nearby allies into boons. the description
All of those only affect a target once, no matter how many times an area overlaps.
Exception in Unyielding Blast, for some reason.
It doesn’t work twice if you are next to the shade but not in his area of effect?
No. Only ever works once per target.
How do i get more barrier? i’m using sand shroud and i get a max of maybe 4 or 5k barrier.
2 ways:
1. Invest in Healing Power. Barriers scale in strength with this stat.
2. Apply more sources of Barrier. Barrier stacks up to a cap of 1/2 the recipient’s max health. This also resets the decay timer.
use curses with power Scourge. Curses 2 2 1
Path of corruption let you reap 2 boons each time and cleanse 2 condis from allies at the same time with nefarious favor. You have weakness spam and auto condi transfer.??
Since when does PoC cleanse conditions….
ops mixed with other post, fixed it thanks. You can have 4 condi cleanse with nefarious favor when you use one shade since it is on you and shade. but it was for other psot
Mhh that sounds like a bug. if i understand the text correctly you should get the effect only one time.
You and your shade convert conditions from nearby allies into boons. the description
All of those only affect a target once, no matter how many times an area overlaps.
Exception in Unyielding Blast, for some reason.
Have you considered that it might be that people haven’t learned how to fight against the new specs yet? When you don’t know what skills do, how do you defend against them?
By that token, you assume people have learned to play as the new elite specs to the point where they’re effective. If they’re already doing well now with less than 24hrs played as that spec, something’s probably broken about those specs.
Not necessarily. Info for the specs has been available for some time now, allowing people to theorycraft and prepare themselves for their chosen spec. If you’re good at Engineer, you’re not going to suck at Holosmith. May not be at your best yet, because theory can only take you so far, but it’s possible to prepare yourself to play a new spec before trying to do so.
To play a new spec, you don’t need to know what the animations look like. To play against one, you do.
Well while I agree with your assessment of some of the existing traits and skills, I think your prediction of scourge was completely wrong.
I’m reviewing the scourge now and I disagree that I’m completely wrong, but I am seeing some areas where I may be incorrect. So you’ll have to wait for my later post.
I’ll agree that the death magic tree is lacking synergy with scourge, but things like dhuumfire has only become an alternate approach, and much better in this case, much harder to evade, you don’t get kited or projectile blocked, instantaneous.
But with skills like F2, you don’t even need shrouded removal anymore. The problems is moreso on the death magic end rather than the scourge end.
Spiteful spirit takes a bit of a back seat now, I completely disagree that it was underpowered before though. And thanks to path of corruption, you don’t even need spiteful spirit anymore. Scourge is just so good, with the traits it does have synergy with, like path of corruption, it just bandaids over anything we might have lost on the ‘enter shroud’ department.
Lol…
Scourge, as it stands, is a burst condi build with little support that is NO FREAKING DIFFERENT than what necro has been in the past. Also, just because there’s two trait lines it synergizes with means necro will be put in a box like it always has been. Tell me… In a PvE instance, what is scourge bringing to the table different than what necro has in the past? Don’t say barrier…
A short cooldown portal, giving melee DPS a few more seconds to hit the boss before teleporting to a safe spot.
Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.
It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.
Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.
Holy kitten guys. Read up xD
Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.
My god, how many times do I have to say this. BURN DURATION IS IRRELEVANT TO WHAT I WAS OBSERVING I wasn’t looking for 7 stacks at once. I was looking for 7 applications. And I still have yet to see it happen in my own tests.
The reason it ends in the last pulse only means it pulsed just when the condi ended try with bit more condi duration.
No, the Burning stacks fell off entirely while Desert Shroud was still pulsing. That means that it went for at least 3 seconds of pulsing without applying any burning.
Have you considered that it might be that people haven’t learned how to fight against the new specs yet? When you don’t know what skills do, how do you defend against them?
I haven’t gotten the impression of any of the Elite Specs being overpowered yet because for every one that kicks my butt, another is flailing around ineffectively.
No, it’s not a matter of the stacks falling off. If that were the case, the duration on the icon would be resetting on each pulse. It isn’t, though, and the golem stops burning entirely before the last pulse.
Burning stack intensity and not duration.
And if it’s applying Burning on each pulse, then there would always be burning so long as it’s ticking, no?
The method of stacking is irrelevant. Some people are getting it stacking on every pulse, but I’m just not seeing it happen. It ranges from 1-5 pulses that it actually applies for me.
It hasn’t been resetting after the third pulse for me. I see the burning fall off entirely before the last pulse. If Dhuumfire was proccing on every pulse, that should be impossible.
No, it’s not a matter of the stacks falling off. If that were the case, the duration on the icon would be resetting on each pulse. It isn’t, though, and the golem stops burning entirely before the last pulse.
Why everyone is talking about dagger AA? Look at Dagger #3 it’s 25s CD and converts 2 boons (single target). Back then when Axe converts 1 boon, it’s understandable for its 25s CD. Now, Axe does AOE 2 boons conversion on 12s CD. Dagger #3’s CD should be lower to 15s …
Because Scourge is starved for life force in condition builds and dagger AA is the best method of getting it. The problem is, it sucks for actual condi damage.
Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.
It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.
Go into PvP and test it, I literally just got to the golem, dropped down a shade and hit F5. 7 burn stack over its duration. Is working exactly like that.
I have. I dropped a shade, hit F5 and…saw 3 stacks including 2 Demonic Lore procs.
It literally only procs on the initial strike. It does not pulse.
EDIT: After taking off Demonic Lore, it turns out Dhuumfire does pulse, BUT NOT ON EVERY PULSE. It procs on the first three, and not on the rest.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.
It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.
Also keep in mind that if traited, the Pillar is also a heal (try it out at lower HP to see how much it actually does) that also revives people. That, together with the fear AND the shade attacks does make it worth its cost.
Also worth noting that if you have Transfusion traited and pop Garish Pillar right before you go down, it starts to revive you immedietly.
Cheetah nicely avoids the issue of being unable to reach a target.
Iboga seems absolutely nuts for Condition Beastmaster, though. Those are some strong skills with long range and short cooldowns/cast times. Not much else to support it, unfortunately.
Hello.
The 2x vuln on autoatack trait , it triggers multiple times , even tho shade stacking was said to not work.
Only works with 3 small shades overlapping, the big one does normal 2x vuln per hit
Odd. Dhuumfire doesn’t work that way…
Scourge will melt trash mobs like there’s no tomorrow. The problem is that its damage output is limited by life force so if things aren’t dying, the damage drops off quick.
Scourge has high burst, but I don’t think its long-term DPS will actually be that high.
I feel the main reason people are having success in Scourge is because opponents really don’t expect the amount of burst it can put out. More specifically, they don’t understand where it’s really coming from (hint: it’s the Shades, don’t stand close to them).
Once people figure that out, the rest of the spec really is lackluster at best. I also don’t think the sustained damage is going to be that high, which can cause serious problems for having a spot in raids. Works fine for anything shy of Champion status, though.
They have to be tested before they can be balanced. There’s nothing important going on in PvP right now, so it’s the perfect time.
Scourge can make minions much more durable than normal with barrier application and condition cleanse and hit harder with might sharing. I would probably call that enough support for the archetype.
Really, didn’t know this. I guess its a bug fix rather than a balance issue then.
How is Dhuumfire working a bug? o.O
I would imagine it is only supposed to proc when you summon the shade. Not the “Whenever you use a shade ability, you and your sand shades strike nearby foes” part.
No, it applies to the damage strike which occurs whenever you use a Shade skill, summoning the shade included.
To be clear, summoning the shade does not strike anything. It triggers the strike. Fine difference, but important.
Holosmith is glass cannon
Scourge is not so glassy cannon.
Condition Scourge is incredibly glassy. Try actually attacking it. I won’t deny it bursts hard, though.
Maybe it’s just buggy as all get out. I have yet to give anyone Might with that skill except when they had condis on them. Now, I didn’t check to see if Might stacks lined up with the target or my allies…
For PvE, the scourge will be as fine as anything else for open world or story. However for anything else the scourge is still in favor of condition damage and still lacking a meanigfull mean of support.
Might stacking is definitely a meaningfull mean of support alongside barrier, epidemic, and dps.
Just one problem: Scourge mightstacking sucks. Torch 5 doesn’t count the conditions on your target when calculating how much Might to grant. It counts how many conditions are on your allies. If one ally has three conditions, they get 6 Might. If another ally on the same cast has no conditions, they get no Might.
Dessicate only gives 5 Might period. Never any more (though also never less.)
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Considering summoning Shades takes no life force, I have no idea why you think “overspamming” runs you out faster. Sand Savant doesn’t affect it either.
Renegade just doesn’t provide a reason to exist in PvP/WvW roaming. Weakest than core Rev, light years behind Herald.
Try Power Renegade. That extra 150-300 Ferocity (based on traits) is probably a strong damage boost.
Disclaimer: I haven’t played Renegade yet.
It will trigger on the F5 for Scourge and the F1 for base Necro and Reaper.
scourge is so durable, just keep using the barrier when its off cd in a fight, its so cheap to cast.
Only with a Power build, though. Condi builds lack the life force generation to keep that up.