99% sure Foot in the Grave procs on Desert Shroud (F5) since we know Furious Demise does.
Lolno, its a cute anti bunker thats only good in birst. It’ll be about as scary as current power shiro; not scary at all. I mean war with infinite resistance isn’t scary at all, just walk away from them. I can imagine this war getting deleted by any condi build in the games second rotation.
in terms of upcoming CANCER levels…
guard > mesmer > engineer > necro > ranger > ele > thief > war
Rev is a question mark for now, but I have zero concern about war. I don’t know if they can even fully boonstrip rev + ele/druid.
Given their Elite will strip 20 boons per target? While preventing reapplication? Yeah, it will be completely capable of shutting down Rev+Ele+Druid+Guardian.
10 seconds of no boons at all is outright deadly to those classes.
scourge will be useless for solo roaming. hope they give us some way to stay at reaper for roaming. PLZ anet, pllllllllzzzzzz. dont kill reaper for roaming.
I have to agree with this one. Scourge cannot solo. No stab, no gap closers.
New specs like Deadeye is going to eat Scourge alive.We don’t know the range on the portal but thats a 20s cd utility that is a gap closer.
It is simply too soon to be hype or be disappointed guys/gals. It might be great it might not, but right now its all guesses and conjecture. Let’s all just wait a bit and we’ll see once the xpac comes out if what we’re guessing at is true or not.
We do now, actually. It’s 900 range.
Barrier:
1. Has a max value of 50% of your maximum health. Absolutely zero chance of seeing a 30k barrier on anyone.
2. Scales with the supplier’s Healing Power. Exact amount unknown, but it varies with each skill/trait.
3. Starts to decay rapidly after 2 seconds. Applying more Barrier will reset this timer.
Also, Scourge’s Sand Shades can’t be killed. They are immobile, though, and do not have an attack of their own.
Yeah, for this cooldown i would expect it to be max barrier. (50% of maxlife) Anyway, no condi love.
50% would be pretty absurd, imagine that on a vit build. Like 16k barrier every 75s passively.
Maaaaan my 23k Shroud gets almost instantly deleted allot of the times in PvP
16k Barrier is 100% acceptable on a 75s cd
It’s not like only Necros can use the rune, imagine a Sentinel Warrior? Getting another 16-20k health bar at 50% health IS pretty crazy.
Keep in mind that “16k” health bar has two major limitations:
1. Actual max health of 32k.
2. Lasts for a maximum of 8 seconds, shrinking rapidly after the first 2.
Both base necro and reaper will retain shroud. Scourge still uses the life force mechanic.
You will have 3 methods by which you can use your life force: Death Shroud, Reaper Shroud, or Sand Shroud. So really you’re gaining a new way to play.
oh so Shroud actualy stays but its more like a resource in the Exp ???
Life Force stays, but Shroud does not. The new F2-F5 skills cost Life Force to use.
From the perspective of an ele main I support this. Ele requires healing power to survive but the only amulets with healing power in the game don’t allow for an offensive ele build. The closest thing we have now is sages, but it offers neither enough sustain nor enough damage to actually compete.
Menders exists.
But it doesn’t heal a single hit point. That means “Out going healing effectiveness” has no effect, because there is no healing happening.
I’d rather see something like “10% increased Barrier strength” or “Gain a Barrier on Elite” than this.
if my assumption is correct, Monk runes should already do that with the 10% out going healing. So if that is the case, it would need to be like 20%. But yeah I agree with everyone here. It’d be nice to have an actually good rune for necro for a change.
I assume that % outgoing healing doesn’t have any effect on Barriers because it’s not healing.
Toughness applies while in Shroud, yes, but the ratio gets thrown off because a Necro gets more out of Vitality than other professions do.
Unless we see something amazing from the minor traits and fourth utility skill, Scourge has zero chance of becoming meta. It manages to have worse survivability than core Necro.
Reaper will still be meta, no question.
I’d rather see something like “10% increased Barrier strength” or “Gain a Barrier on Elite” than this.
On Necro, Vitality is a bit better than Toughness when you have them that close. Optimal ratio is 1 armor/10 health, but since life force pool scales off of health, it tweaks the ratio. Also, Vitality will improve max barrier, though I doubt that will come up often.
Scourge skills and traits. They may slightly change though between now and when we get to test them during the seconds beta weekend.
Notice that list only has 3 Utility skills? All Elite Specs (save Revenant’s) have 4.
But the new changes stated that Necromancer can be healed by outsides sources even in under Death/Reaper Shroud
Links or it didn’t happen.
Basically, unless it’s described as life stealing (but not equipment) or explicitly says it heals through Shroud, it doesn’t.
And yeah, as someone who love GW1 Blood Magic and has been playing GW2 since beta, it feels bad.
An immobilize would be wonderful, albeit contrary to the high Torment output.
Ahh, I tried to catch the range skill fact with pausing, but I couldn’t read it.
You will need to own Path of Fire to play Season 4 and it will be starting ~2 months after PoF release. We won’t have the 9 month content drought post-expansion release this time.
So, I just had a crazy thought: how does Feed from Corruption interact with Aegis? Do you get an Aegis any time you attack someone with the boon (with blockable attacks)?
I literally just raced here to post this.
That 6 piece is disappointing. Even if it’s a massive Barrier (I doubt it), 75 seconds is an absurd cooldown.
Also, looks like I was half wrong on my prediciton for the rune. It’s main stat is Healing Power instead of Condition Damage.
Buuut, since nobody took me up on the bet, I owe no gold.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Shaman is probably okay for Scourge, but as soon as you can, I would look into Seraph’s gear. Has a bit more offensive power to work with.
While you wouldn’t get intentional gameplay like that, it is a cool idea. I like it.
So, we basically match the effective healing output of a Zealot’s Druid by giving up all DPS?
Soooooo scary. 10k/20 seconds is not unbalanced at all, or even hard to achieve with other specs. Yes, Barrier is a new mechanic that we still have to learn the effectiveness of, but I doubt it will be absurdly effective, considering how fast it deteriorates.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
The same could be said of the power of every elite spec we have details on.
Scourge Barrier and Shroud interaction looks busted
Seeing as how Scourges lose Shroud entirely, how do you figure this?
Lets see, one person loses a 15k health shield. Instead upto 5 other can get 6K health shields and upto ~ 9k healing on top of that.
What do you value more 15k personal health or 30k health in shielding for you and 4 others on top of upto 45k raw Healing.
Not where where you’re getting the 9k raw healing from, as the Necro sure isn’t providing it. Even Transfusion, which will certainly be weaker on Scourge than even base Necro, only hits about 6k at its highest (Reaper, FYI). Other AoE heals from Necros are weaksauce.
On top of that, you just said it’s a tradeoff. The “barrier and Shroud interaction” doesn’t even exist unless you are talking about two separate players, one a Necro/Reaper and the other a Scourge. In that case its, well, a support doing support.
So, would I prefer the teamwide barriers or Shroud? Depends on a lot of factors. PvP, definitely the personal health. You can’t provide any support when you’re dead.
Shroud traits still work on scourge hence barrier + shroud interaction. Also, if you cannot see it, i encourage you to go look at trait’s and scaling.
You realize I am one of the very few who has Necro scalings and ratios memorized? Especially for the Healing Power ratios?
We don’t know exactly how Shroud traits will work with Scourge. We know Furious Demise works with Desert Shroud, and we can assume that’s true of all enter/exit traits. Since Desert Shroud is also the only F skill that pulses, we can probably assume that that is the skill Transfusion works off of. But it only pulses 7 times (Life Transfer pulses 9 times and Soul Spiral 12), for a total Healing Power scaling of 1.4 and base of 2044, meaning to reach a 9k heal, you would need 5k Healing Power, which is about 3k worth of stats higher than what is even possible.
I run Zealots Necro when I want to go Power. I am more than aware of exactly what level of healing a Necro can put out.
The same could be said of the power of every elite spec we have details on.
Scourge Barrier and Shroud interaction looks busted
Seeing as how Scourges lose Shroud entirely, how do you figure this?
Lets see, one person loses a 15k health shield. Instead upto 5 other can get 6K health shields and upto ~ 9k healing on top of that.
What do you value more 15k personal health or 30k health in shielding for you and 4 others on top of upto 45k raw Healing.
Not where where you’re getting the 9k raw healing from, as the Necro sure isn’t providing it. Even Transfusion, which will certainly be weaker on Scourge than even base Necro, only hits about 6k at its highest (Reaper, FYI). Other AoE heals from Necros are weaksauce.
On top of that, you just said it’s a tradeoff. The “barrier and Shroud interaction” doesn’t even exist unless you are talking about two separate players, one a Necro/Reaper and the other a Scourge. In that case its, well, a support doing support.
So, would I prefer the teamwide barriers or Shroud? Depends on a lot of factors. PvP, definitely the personal health. You can’t provide any support when you’re dead.
The same could be said of the power of every elite spec we have details on.
Scourge Barrier and Shroud interaction looks busted
Seeing as how Scourges lose Shroud entirely, how do you figure this?
So, by dumpstering your DPS, you can almost get there Yes, almost, because you can’t get to 25 stacks by staggering the skills as you describe.
If you invest that much into Boon Duration, you don’t have the condition duration or condition damage to be competitive.
Meanwhile, a Warrior just has to do his DPS rotations and supplies the full party without anything more than Strength runes. Even blasting ele fire fields works out better.
Look again on the uptimes for Might. You’re not going to keep 25 Might on allies for long.
We also don’t know how the portal works, but it’s probably not going to be useful for jumping puzzles, since we do know it’s ground targeted.
Considering Druid increases party Power DPS by about 17%, they have no chance of losing their Raid spots. Scourge’s DPS would have to be truly insane to compete with that.
Honestly, since the ICD is per-target, I don’t see it as being that bad. With this trait, each Torment stack on a moving target is equivalent damage to 3 bleeds, so even without the burning, it’s not bad. The additional burning is a good bonus, although I would like to see it upped to 2 stacks.
I can see Scourge being desirable in encounters like Slothosaur and Matthias due to strong, teamwide condition removal (Scourge plus 1 basic sand shade will cover entire party) and barrier to remove a bit more pressure. Will have to see how their DPS goes, though.
Keep in mind that the only Barrier we have seen that is above 1k and not on Scourge has been a Weaver stance with a decent cool down per charge. If “overshielding” happens, it’s because of a Scourge.
WvW, you tend to have choke points anyway, so it’s not as bad as you’d think. Still should have larger radii, though.
Honestly, I would rather see Nothing Can Save You lose its cast time rather than give additional buffs.
On the demo preview, Death’s Judgement (kneeling Rifle 4) has a Power coefficient of 1.6, but it also gains 15% bonus damage for each stack of Malice on the target. Malice already gives 3% bonus damage per stack.
Even at just 5 stacks of Malice, that’s a bit over 200% of the damage, before accounting for other damage amplifiers, or the equivalent of a 3.2 Power coefficient. For reference, Kill Shot level 3 adrenaline is a 3.25 coefficient. At the traited cap of 7 malice, that’s a multiplier of 248.05% damage for an effective coefficient of 3.9688 just from the skill itself.
That will take 10.5 seconds of attacking to build up to that point, though, so it’s not without setup. Regardless, I fully expect montages of absolutely absurd numbers off this skill.
!
-Also they are changing how all Signets work in the game so this will affect all thief builds old and new.I haven’t seen anything about this anywhere. Do you have any details on what they plan to change? or a source for the speculation?
Only thing I’ve seen on it was in WoodenPotatoes post-show where he mentioned that the Spite line and signets for Necromancer were being reworked, as Reaper was having Deathly Chill changed to be come a Power trait.
I guess people took that to mean all signets everywhere.
Runes buffing Punishment skills are right out, as Scourges are the only class to get those. If Expansion Pack 3 rolls around with a new specialization getting Punishment skills, we might see a rune for them then. Until it’s possible for at least 2 classes to benefit fully from the runes, you won’t see them.
After thinking about Scourge for a while, I feel confident making some predictions.
1. Condi Necros in PvP will still be Reapers. Scourge just doesn’t have any way to deal with focus fire, and Reaper’s Shroud gives better opportunities. Even without Deathly Chill, Reaper is still the best option for PvP, regardless of if you’re Power or Condition. Precisely how it gets played will change (for example, condi builds will change to Blighter’s Boon for more sustain or Reaper’s Onslaught for a faster stun), but it will definitely still be used.
2. Scourges are going to thrive in WvW zergs. Their Sand Shades allowing up to 20 targets hit (15 with Greater Shade, albeit more consistently) for F2 and F3 are huge (technically, all of the Shade skills have that, but you’re much more likely to get 20 allies than 20 enemies).
3. Scourges will do well against foes that use 1-3 conditions constantly. F2 is an instant cast AoE 2 condi conversion every 5 seconds if you keep life force flowing. Traiting for Barriers to remove conditions can easily net you 5 conditions removed AoE every 10 seconds on instant cast. This is in addition to the resilience the Barrier itself will give. More importantly, they can easily cover 10-20 people with this same effectiveness.
3.2: As an expansion of the above point, there will be places in PvE where a Scourge is vastly tougher than normal. Because it’s a condition-to-boon conversion, it will be especially effective against Branded (current ones put out good amounts of bleed) and Forged (almost certainly causing lots of Burning). Having an Aegis every 5 seconds sounds pretty good, no? There will most likely be cooldown reductions possible from Soul Reaping line.
4. People (including Scourges) will often forget that every F skill will have all of your Sand Shades pulse out Cripple and Torment. Even when Desert Shroud and Garish Pillar are down, those sand shades are not necessarily safe to be around.
5. Rune of the Scourge will be Primary in Condition Damage and have a 6 piece bonus that either does something with Barrier or boon removal. I will bet 5 gold on this with anyone who wants to take the bet.
I do have a couple of questions about how the spec works, though.
1. Does Garish Pillar cause foes to run from the sand shade that they were hit by, or from you, the Scourge? I’m betting the latter, but the former would be extremely interesting.
2. Does the Greater Shade provide one or three pulses of the F2-5?
Well, yes, there have been mount talks before and I never bothered. Mostly because I couldnt imagine that Anet would give into the mount-crowd. Now everything is different and I just have to add my 2 cents: First, I have nothing against mounts in MMO’s in general. I can see the certain role of mounts in Elona and I understand Anets approach of including mounts into the mastery system. What really annoys me about mounts in GW2 is not the presence of mounts itself, but how people are going to use them. I have watched lots of MMO’s during the past years and in every single MMO with mounts, people are using them constantly, even in the most useless situations. If possible, they would even ride to the loo with them. :-P Mounts cluster all places in these MMO’s and they downgrade the games somehow. Turning them into a silly kindergarten, where there could be graphic beauty and depth.
Couldn’t have worded it better. I’m not against people using mounts (still dislike them), however, people will use them in such unnatural/unethical manner inside buildings, ultra thing pathways (that it would fall off) etc, that it will ‘graphically’ kill the crap out of the immersion of the game.
The immersion that isn’t there because teleporting devices?
Well, Waypoints are actually a canon thing. Had that whole bit during Season 2 about waypoints being attacked by tendrils.
That’s a self-defeating argument. These mounts are going to be explained in-story too, making them just as canon as waypoints according to your logic.
Well, yeah, they are.
My point is that both advance immersion, rather than breaking it.
Well, yes, there have been mount talks before and I never bothered. Mostly because I couldnt imagine that Anet would give into the mount-crowd. Now everything is different and I just have to add my 2 cents: First, I have nothing against mounts in MMO’s in general. I can see the certain role of mounts in Elona and I understand Anets approach of including mounts into the mastery system. What really annoys me about mounts in GW2 is not the presence of mounts itself, but how people are going to use them. I have watched lots of MMO’s during the past years and in every single MMO with mounts, people are using them constantly, even in the most useless situations. If possible, they would even ride to the loo with them. :-P Mounts cluster all places in these MMO’s and they downgrade the games somehow. Turning them into a silly kindergarten, where there could be graphic beauty and depth.
Couldn’t have worded it better. I’m not against people using mounts (still dislike them), however, people will use them in such unnatural/unethical manner inside buildings, ultra thing pathways (that it would fall off) etc, that it will ‘graphically’ kill the crap out of the immersion of the game.
The immersion that isn’t there because teleporting devices?
Well, Waypoints are actually a canon thing. Had that whole bit during Season 2 about waypoints being attacked by tendrils.
I assume it’ll work similar to how Reaper’s Shroud works
It can’t, really. We don’t get new skills from using Desert Shroud (which is itself just a skill).
None of the F skills are without cooldown either, so the three traits affecting Shroud 1, they’re either going to be pathetic or something different is happening with them.
It appears all of those Shroud traits will apply to the Desert Shroud skill. What happens with Reaper’s Might, Unyielding Blast, Dhuumfire, Path of Corruption, and Transfusion is a mystery.
Nope. Beastmode is totally different.
I don’t think it opens up many new possibilities, really. Guaranteed full crit channel on Axe 2, I guess, which wouldn’t be bad burst.
For all of the other “in shroud” traits, though, this is a massive nerf. Plus, Vital Persistence is only a 15% reduction, so it’s a 17 second cooldown if it works that way.
Speed Shroud can also give you an extra 30% reduction fir 45% total or 11 sec CD.
Also heard about some of the minor traits. The adept minor is just access to Scourge. The grandmaster is 5% danage reduction per shade out. The major is still unknown.
Maybe. We don’t know exactly how Speed of Shadows and Vital Persistence will work with Shade skills.
Personally, I won’t be seeing much of a difference. I keep forgetting to use food and utilities.
I don’t think it opens up many new possibilities, really. Guaranteed full crit channel on Axe 2, I guess, which wouldn’t be bad burst.
For all of the other “in shroud” traits, though, this is a massive nerf. Plus, Vital Persistence is only a 15% reduction, so it’s a 17 second cooldown if it works that way.
There’s a minor trait that converts a percentage of condition damage to expertise. I believe it’s 10%.
Relax.
Not a Minor, but a Major. It also reduces Torch cooldowns.
Also, 7% conversion rate.
So for those that don’t know, Deathly Chill will be nerfed upon the release of PoF but Reaper will be buffed significantly. So we will basically be getting Scourge as our condi/support spec, and Reaper as our power spec.
So, as a condi Reaper who spent a lot of time/gold getting full ascended Viper stats it’s a big FU…got it.
So glad I didn’t preorder…
Two things you can do
1) Convert your ascended viper gear to power gear
2) Power through high level fractals and/or WvW like a crazy person to get both power and condi gearTrust me when I say your first full ascended set will be your hardest, it gets easier from there.
Edit: I doubt the nerf will make deathly chill useless. The sheer fact that you can use two skills to stack tons of chill, bleed, and poison at once is what makes it so OP.
From the looks of the WP video, its going back to 1 bleed stack.
WP video showed a Deathly Chill that’s identical to what’s currently live. He was in PvP, and the PvP version is only 1 stack.