Guild Wars 2

Laraley.7695:

GhOst.4019:

Nice troll thread…and he asks us to be constructive…lol

Then you have this guy below. He complains about loosing 1/3 of his health to CoD when he is playing a fresh air that can 1 or 2 shot the necro…. You can’t complain that you are taking high damage if you are playing fresh air bud. You want to be glass, you get hit like glass.

Laraley.7695:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Laraley.7695:

Well, honestly I think Chill of Death could be toned down a bit. It hits me over 4K in 95% cases + the chill. It’s really annoying, takes 1/3 of my hp and there’s no way to avoid it.

Try cutting back on your boon use when you’re reaching 50% if you suspect it will be an issue. It doesn’t hit that hard if you don’t have the boons to strip.

Yeah, that’s like telling me not to play ele. There’s really not much I can do about boon gain with 30 in Arcana unless I just camp one attuenement. And yeah, I do need 30 in Arcana on fresh air.

I’m not complaining about being hit that much, I’m complaining about it being A PASSIVE PROC hitting that much. L2spotadifference.

You are running the squishiest build in the game. You probably get two-shotted regardless of what Power build fights back. And yes, Necros with Chill of Death are no exception.

You are taking what is literally the best situation for the trait (lots of boons, no armor, no damage reduction, no health) and using it as an argument for removal.

Laraley.7695:

The only passive thing is Renewing Stamina, you’re saying that ele should just camp one attunement in case he’ll get hit by a trait without any ways to avoid it. No, rest of the boons are gained by actively switching your attunements. It’s how the class works but your suggestion is not to play the class how it works but how one passive trait forces me. But hey this necro just did 4K damage without any skill or good game play and that’s fine.

Also, if someone is playing a mesmer, should they not shatter in case of getting hit by passive proc?

You can’t really compare passive damage procs and boons.

There is such a thing as letting boons fall off. You don’t need to hold back for long, just to let the proc be wasted. D/D builds don’t seem to have an issue with Chill of Death, interestingly (sure it hurts, but it’s not killing them), so this clearly isn’t a profession-wide problem.

Since you commented that you usually play Fresh Air ele, I counter with this: Why, when you are playing what is literally the squishiest build in the entire game, are you complaining about anything doing a large portion of your health in one hit?

So limit your boon use against Power necros. Not a difficult thing to do.

Unless you’re saying that you can’t do so because it’s passive. In which case, what makes one (or more) passive proc fine and Chill of Death bad?

Then Magnus needs to get his stuff together and fix it and Evon shouldn’t be selling passes to it until that happens.

Besides, where did you see that it was Magnus’s? I’ve seen it implied a lot in-game that it is Gnashblade’s, and the wiki doesn’t say regardless.

Laraley.7695:

Well, honestly I think Chill of Death could be toned down a bit. It hits me over 4K in 95% cases + the chill. It’s really annoying, takes 1/3 of my hp and there’s no way to avoid it.

Try cutting back on your boon use when you’re reaching 50% if you suspect it will be an issue. It doesn’t hit that hard if you don’t have the boons to strip.

To Captian Evon Gnashblade:

Your airship, the Havoc’s Heir, is in deplorable condition. Multiple steam leaks inside the main cabin are blatantly obvious. The increased humidity is causing difficulties in crafting arms and armor, but that detail is minor compared to the safety hazards. Non-charr can easily get steam burns from these leaks and even our own race is at risk from prolonged exposure.

After a short inspection on the rest of the airship, I noticed disturbing trends, from rusty rails to seams on the airbag starting to come apart. Given how heavily loaded your ship is, and my own experience working with that model in the Pact, you are at prime risk for your airship crashing, killing everyone aboard. I highly suggest you get the Havoc’s Heir in for repairs. Selling passes to gain access to a machine so close to failure is not a good idea. Ye, it will be expensive for you, but having hundreds of affluent Tyrians be at risk of death for using your service is a much larger fiscal problem for you.

-Drarnor Kunoram, Blood Legion Legionnaire

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Wheatty.1892:

It isn’t too bad a deal at 1360 gems, copper salvage and silver salvage sold separately are 1300 gems in total but you get 3 black lion ticket scraps and 3 upgrade extractors as a bonus + other junk worth at least more than 60 gems I think.

Yep. It sucks that I already have the copper-fed-salvage-o-matic. If I didn’t I’d totally get that salvage package for 1360 gems. But as it stands now, with me already having the copper-fed salvage-o-matic I don’t think it’s worth it for me.

Pass a second to another character.

L Step.8659:

Game will be broken beyond belief if this extended to WvW or PvP. Don’t really see the point in doing it in PvE either, I think conditions as a whole just need to be changed in some way, removing the cap still won’t make condi builds wanted in PvE for the most part.

I don’t think it would be. If you’re getting focused enough to hit, say, 30 bleeds, you should be dying regardless of what kind of build is attacking you. Condition clears are so prevalent in WvW and PvP that the chance of actually hitting the cap now is unheard of. Increasing the stack cap won’t change that.

Zenith.7301:

Copper fed salvage o matic alone is 1k gems. Even if you have one already, it means you can give it to a toon so you don’t constantly have to pass it around to alts via the bank.

800 gems for the copper, 500 for the silver.

I was prompted to change my password when I logged into Twitch yesterday, so this warning is legit. Good thing my GW2 e-mail is literally used for nothing else.

Oh, I was referring to using Charge for Charge, not to get him attacking again.

Use his Charge ability. It’s the only thing he’s really good for.

He tends to be a lot more aggressive if you are close to the point where you summoned him, though. This is true for all minions.

Condi necros will wreck Mallyx Revenants. Basically the only condi build that has a shot against them, though.

kybraga.7103:

Alright, so… Feast of corruption… Is actually pretty good, just learn to use it right… Heh. It can do as much if not more than Firegrab on ele.

Only problem is that “using it right” involves forsaking dealing decent damage except with that skill. Even in full Zerker, half the damage the Necro Scepter 1 and 2 skills deal is from the conditions, and that’s assuming 0 condition damage!

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Also, the one other trait I used that felt super strong was the fury related trait where fury is now 70%.

A reason why i cant take your post serious. Why?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roiling_Mists
l2read issue

Ye my fault, I tested it in game though and it actually buffs your fury to 50% instead of 20. So thats really strong still. I went from 30 percent crit chance to 80. If you combined that with the other crit chance trait you could easily have 100 all the time lol. It works really well if you get access from fury from your heals and stunbreaking. At that point you have 100% fury uptime.

Still wrong.

Effectiveness Increased: 50% – means its 50% better than base effect. In this case 20+50%=30% crit chance from fury

He tested it and his test shows otherwise. Sure, what you’re saying is how it should work given what’s written, but that doesn’t mean it’s how it actually works.

Rising Dusk.2408:

grave of hearts.7830:

And if you dont mind me asking,where exactly is the forum specialist for necromancers?

He’s actually been posting in the Necromancer forum for a long time, he just doesn’t have the official title under his name yet.

Yo.

Though it looks like the Devs are having second thoughts about the value of profession specialists, according to Galie’s latest post on the matter. Probably because it was taking too long for all 8 to be represented.

Zealot is pretty good on some builds on each profession. Best for WvW, though.

Sinister is pretty good for Necro and Engineer as well. Really any condition build.

I can still see plenty of use for Mallyx stance on a Zerker build. Look past the condition applications and at what the skills actually do. Boon rip, area denial, and condition protection for allies as well as a very attractive 10% stat boost (~230 Power, 180 Precision, and 104 crit damage before runes, sigils, Might, and food for Zerker).

To clarify the above post: No, we are not getting new weapons.

Will probably only be the case on larger bosses, but that is most excellent news. Condition builds might finally be wanted in dungeons.

That said, I notice Vulnerability is still just 25. That is the one stacking condition they really should just leave alone, though.

One tip I recall seeing is to go into death shroud and just don’t cast anything. The shadowy stuff hides your actions a bit, so they will frequently try to blow their interrupts on absolutely nothing.

Roe.3679:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Roe.3679:

Forsaker.9213:

Well i hope terror will do dmg even with the resistance buff up becouse its not condition doing dmg but trait :P

It will work the same as berserker stance, so no damage.

Works very differently. Berserker Stance prevents conditions from being applied. Resistance just prevents the condition from doing anything.

Details. Damage wise it will be the same.

Not necessarily. This is a coding thing, since Fear does not cause damage. The Terror trait does. It may very well bypass Resistance on the damage, since the trait checks to see if a Fear you applied is active on the target, then applies damage.

Now, I don’t think it should behave that way, but it likely can.

Roe.3679:

Forsaker.9213:

Well i hope terror will do dmg even with the resistance buff up becouse its not condition doing dmg but trait :P

It will work the same as berserker stance, so no damage.

Works very differently. Berserker Stance prevents conditions from being applied. Resistance just prevents the condition from doing anything.

dood.7526:

In GW1, life stealing wasn’t very useful either, people just liked it because it added a flat amount of damage to every hit.

Saddest part? Life stealing in GW1 was more effective. And I’m talking straight numbers here. The Vampiric trait at max steals 46 health with full traiting. Vampiric Gaze in GW1 stole 49 health with only 10 Blood Magic (full 16 stole 63).

A GW2 Necro has about 40 times the health of a GW1 Necro.

Pretty sure the Karma and Magic Find don’t get changed by scaling at all. They’re always at their max.

Ragion.2831:

There are other reasons, you might want to block projectiles while chasing a different target you might want to block projectiles while running from melee attacks.

The rest I’ll give you but this…not so much. The wall is in front of you, so if you’re running away from melee, it’s not doing jack to prevent projectiles. Or you’re failing to run from melee because you’re backpedaling.

Mightybird.6034:

You realize if you get access to stability (i.e more defense) then your offense will need serious nerfing?

Necro is easily the scariest class in the game, and it doesn’t even require serious work to put out that damage.

Often times there’s nothing I can do but run from a necro. If supported a necro can wipe out a team.

Not a big concern. If nerfs are necessary to Necro offense (I doubt it, since multiple professions have both superior offense and defense in the same build, even AoE) to get the defense and sustain we need, most of us are cool with that.

Yeah, that’s the primary reason why the Necro gets focused first: it’s a free kill when you do. Necros cannot survive focus fire, making them the best target, since once they’re brought down it’s a 5v4.

Not because they are the biggest threat, but because the effort to remove their threat is so low compared to the bigger threats.

I think simply adding a stunbreak to the trait (without ICD) is something ANet should look into, though. Even if it doesn’t make it to live, it’s something that should probably be tested internally.

Elementalists, Warriors, Engineers, Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers, and Guardians can all survive focus fire for a fair amount of time via blocks, evades, invulnerabilities, stealth, and teleports. Necros can’t. (Stealth and teleports can even let thieves, mesmers, and eles escape focus fire altogether.)

If a Ranger doesn’t want to die, for example, they can easily chain Signet of Stone, Lightning Reflexes, and Counterattack to survive for 10 seconds all but guaranteed, no matter how much firepower is being dumped into him. An Engineer can chain Gear Shield, Static Shield, and Elixir S for 7.5 seconds of guaranteed survival, regardless of incoming damage. All Mesmers, regardless of build, can pop F4 for 3-4 seconds of invulnerability with other protection skills that vary with build. Warriors pop Defy Pain and keep going. Guardians chain Shelter+Renewed Focus for 5 seconds of “can’t touch this.”

You try to focus-fire on any other profession, they have something they can do to negate the effects of your cooldowns entirely. Necros don’t have that option.

Warrior hammer CC chain is AoE. Necro fear chain is single target. Which is more disruptive to teh teamfight? Which, between the Warrior and the Necro, gets focused first? The Necro, despite being less disruptive than the Warrior.

Minions, wells, and condition pressure are all mutually exclusive. Don’t lump them together again.

pdavis.8031:

I can understand that necros have very limited mobility, and options. But have you considered why necro is almost always focused and taken down first?
Is it just for the free kill and points?
Or is it because the longer the necro is in the fight the deadlier he gets?
Yeah a coupld of stacks of bleed aren’t really much, but you let a necro get to 25 and you’re screwed. Almost infinit poison also hurts too. They have access to lots of blinds, vulnerablity, boon stripping, group condi cleanse, and chill.
Let them pop DS, and now you have a full health necro that can deal some great damage and break up fights.
Lich form for lots of pressure and if left unchecked can ruin a party fairly quickly.

Yeah necro lacks blocks, mobility, leaps, and very limited blasts, but it still is a force to be reckoned with. Thats why if I am facing a good team, they will target me. If its not a great team, they quickly learn to not ignore the necro.

What class, if left alone, isn’t a force to be reckoned with? Necros are not alone in that regard, and their condition pressure is greatly outdone by Engineers and Rangers.

Necros are focused first, not because they are the greatest threat, but because there is nothing they can do to stop it.

To be fair, Condition thieves are pretty strong attrition builds. They’re just no good in Conquest due to stealth giving up the capture point.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Yep, the meta is centered around Thieves…

That is why most optimal builds are like AoE happy machines that makes spectating for a new player seems as if they are watching Rainbow-Simulator 2…

… Or was the meta buid around, you know, conquest? Might sound silly, I know, but there might be a possibility no?

Well, AoE is the best counter to stealth…

Obviously Conquest is still the ultimate goal, but there are quite a few builds that perform well in Conquest if an enemy thief is absent. None of these builds are meta. To say the Thief hasn’t shaped the meta is not accurate. Most professions have shaped the current meta (still unsure about Ranger, though).

Ragion.2831:

^ This. I imagine thats why necros have a lot of access to weakness. Maybe we should be taking that condition more seriously.

On long cast times/short durations.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Sagat.3285:

Can we stop acting like it’s the best scenario,necro needs to be offensive to heal not swap or active a skill and boom heals. This would also comes with a reduction of DS pool wich makes necro a pve boss thus creating active gameplay.

Reducing the Life force pool & reworking how life force is gained could work somewhat.

However as long as death shroud absorbs damage at the cost of life force instead of reducing damage by a set % there will still be major problems in terms of balance.
Namely it will still cause the necro to be very strong 1v1 but weak in team fights.

Honestly, I don’t see how that really changes anything. Say it’s a 50% reduction. Isn’t that effectively the same as just doubled health? Which…is roughly what fully traited death shroud does?

There is no point in changing death shroud from “providing more effective health” to “providing more effective health.”

Ragion.2831:

spoj.9672:

The thing im concerned about is the new tech. Its fancy and everything. But not necessarily better than simplistic versions of skills. For example the revenants projectle block that follows the rev and stays in front. Thats fancy but just a full stationary dome like feedback is actually stronger. The only new thing that i think will be good is upkeep skills. The new cascade and player orientated skills are nothing more than fancy effects. And i really hope necro doesnt suffer by getting weaker versions of skills just so they look special.

Is a stationary dome better though? With the revenants wall you can close the gap between you and your ranged opponent while blocking while avoiding any melee attacks. Yes it isnt a 360 block but frankly in most situations a one sided block is enough.

Given Revenenat Hammer is a 1200 range weapon, why would they want to close the gap against projectile-wielders?

Vukorep.3081:

actually i said “without healing power GEAR”… cant count vampiric traits without using the healing power you gain by spending points in the trait line…

No, but you can count Life Siphon the skill without that. Which is what was being discussed.

Dagger auto chain lasts 2.1 seconds. That’s one of your biggest mistakes. Your number gets reduced by more than half, there.

Life Siphon, I can see where you got it from. When you said “without healing power” that should mean “without point as in Blood Magic” as well. My calculations above are all based on a single target (separate calculations for more).

Try looking over the calculations I just did. 296 health/second from siphoning traits is actually impossible.

Life Siphon healing for 3771 health per cast is a maximum of 287.86 health/second, assuming you traited for cooldowns. otherwise, it’s 243.29 health/second. Still good, but you need to know how to calculate healing/second. Also, impossible to get that without healing power in your build. My posted build just barely breaks 4k and has fairly high healing power along with Bloodthirst amping it up by 20%. Life Siphon scales quite well.

Considering DB’s score in T3 last week was well over both other servers combined, not sure how you came to that conclusion.

It may be uplevels. Downed stats isn’t unlocked now until level 7, IIRC. Kill someone who hasn’t unlocked it yet on that character, and there is no satisfaction of stomping.

LittleHorn.6728:

Newish to necro, what do you guys mean by GS?

Greatsword. The upcoming specialization will open it up as an option.

Balekai.6083:

Hmm if they could get it right, balancing around the mean without the ICD would be ideal.

Again I have a hard time thinking of a way around balancing an ICD siphon after taking away spike life steal, without making the siphon too high that it starts acting like a high damage irremovable condition-like effect, that heals the caster…

Then there’s the issue of losing that ability to spike steal in of itself. Right now being able to spike multiple life steals at one time when you need it, is sort of the saving grace of those traits at the moment.

Honestly it might be better to try increasing the life steal without an ICD first and see how it goes. If it turns out just increasing life steal amounts further without ICDs is too powerful, then I guess the nerf bat or ICD function is never too far from the tree. :P

If the damage portion becomes problematic, they can always nerf the damage while keeping the healing. The values, while they currently have identical values, are not linked. Sigil of Blood, for example, heals for 1 more than the damage it deals, and the healing scales with healing power while the damage doesn’t scale at all.

The actual in-game healing power for that build is 868. Not sure why the huge discrepency for the build editor. 263 health/second is based off of the 868, though.

Only problem with an ICD to make siphons more “dependable” is that, by their very nature, siphons are volatile. They require hitting your opponent and, in many cases, an additional requirement. Adding an ICD does not remove this volatility, just limits the upper range. It’s like taking a bell curve, then chopping off everything above one standard deviation. It doesn’t help the deviation below in the slightest.

To balance siphons properly, you need to balance around the mean, not the “if the planets align” situations. They will always be volatile by their very nature. I argue to embrace that and, while balancing them around the expected, let them have their awesome moments when they do show up.

Still, regardless of how they are buffed, the numbers are pretty clear that the payoff is freaking awful for the investment.

Here’s a question: wasn’t maguuma one of the 4 T2 servers anyway? Could have sworn it was Fort Aspenwood, Maguuma, Dragonbrand, and Yak’s Bend that were the 4 T2 servers. Could be mistaken on the last one.

So saying Maguuma is T2 and shoving DB out…really means nothing.

Dredrum.2563:

If a nec could be healed in ds he would never die. Once you get good at nec you can stay alive at 100 hp for a kitten long time if you smart on where you come in and out of death shroud.

Except this isn’t close to accurate. You survive until you are forced out of death shroud, which will happen. By natural degeneration if nothing else. Any damaging conditions on you and even if you escape your enemies (hahaha), you’re dead before you can cleanse.

When a Necromancer runs out of life force, skills they are currently casting get cancelled. As of the November 4th patch, this was not supposed to happen ( see patch notes ). This only started to occour in the last 48 hours.

spoj.9672:

Oh i was think of when you get knocked out of DS by taking damage and it continues to life transfer. Yes if it drains naturally it will cancel. That was an intended change from over a year ago.

No, they reverted that.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-November-4-2014/first#post4537308

Death Shroud: Reverted a change that caused this effect to incorrectly cancel abilities (such as stomping) when the necromancer’s death shroud runs out.

If it’s back, it’s a bug. Life Transfer should not be cancelling just because you ran out of life force. If you manually left death shroud, it should cancel.

That said, I just did it a couple times yesterday. Didn’t have an issue.

EDIT: Today, on the other hand, it is definitely cancelling. Bug report time!

Okay, time to re-calculate single-target siphoning with main-hand Axe and Axe Training. This actually hits faster than main-hand dagger, and cooldowns are different, so I will be adjusting a fair amount.

Restating the above values on hits/second casting:
Locust Swarm: 30 h/sc
Well of Suffering: 24 h/sc
Well of Corruption: 24 h/sc
Well of Darkness: 24 h/sc
Rending Claws: 2.11 h/sc
Ghastly Claws: 3.56 h/sc

Same priority is in place: Locust Swarm->#2-> wells-> auto.

Locust Swarm’s timing remains unchanged.

Ghastly Claws is cast at the .5, 9.25, 18, 26.75, 35.5, 44.25, and 53.25 second marks. This is 56 hits, with 28 crits, siphoning 4004 life/minute.

Order for wells is changed up, casting Well of Darkness at the 2.75 and 53 marks, Well of Corruption at the 3 second mark and 43.25 marks, and Well of Suffering at the 3.25 and 38.5 second mark.

Rending Claws cycle time is .95 seconds. 18.5 seconds are spent casting other skills, leaving this 41.25 seconds to cast for 43.42 cycles. This is 87 hits, ~43.5 crits for 2392.5 life siphoned per minute.

Total is 17413.5 health/minute or 290.23 health/second. This is the absolute max from a 50% crit chance build on a single target, and it does not include aftercast delays aside from axe auto. Actual healing/second is lower.

Average hits/second with max optimization? 3.583. Vampiric absolutely cannot trigger more than that/second on average against a single target. Including aftercasts, this drops to 3/second or lower. Including opponents who don’t let you just hit them as you please, this likely drops to 2-2.25 hits/second or lower.

Tissitra.4153:

I understand that while not publicly advertised, THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE. You take less damage in DS than you usually would (don’t remember the precise number). This is part of the reason why vitality (which increases the life force pool) is more useful to a necro than toughness.

Death Shroud takes 50% damage. Another reason why Spectral Armor + Death Shroud is an effective defense, since to break even with the life force gain, your attacker has to deal ~3.5k damage/second (not including death shroud degeneration).