Beautiful piece but what I wouldn’t call her is a Sylvari. Maybe some sort of dryad or tree nymph.
Curse you Mecos! You just ended the thread Time travel discussions are fun. You could have waited
jp
Even if it is time travel, it is only lore breaking if we assume one specific “theory” about time travel is correct. A-Net may have a diffrent idea about how time travel works. And it would also be supported by other scifi examples.
ie.: The time stream having a degree of plasticity is supported by fry going back in time, killing his grandpa and becoming his own grandpa in Futrama.
Going back in time being predetermined is supported by stewie creating the big bang in Family Guy and the Terminator going back in time and getting John Conner ready for Judgement Day.
So, it’s really it doesn’t become a problem until A-Net confirms we are going back in time and then goes on to confirm that any time travel will mess up the time stream.
Boobytrap is especially good with all of our AoE’s. So even if I don’t kill the pack of mobs before I go down, I usually get multiple revivals just planning my targets once i’m down.
It’s not changing time if it was already predetermined that you would go back in time.
Or…….. the time stream has a degree of plasticity to allow it to right itself.
Or….. the various scifi shows are basing their plots off of flawed ideas.
Oh. Erm…is this a nerdy lore kinda thing? Because I can uderstand that lol. I thought you guys were actually trying to find honest ways to justify why it’s not real. :P
Sorry about that.
LOL! It is for me :P
I’m of the opinion that Sylvari don’t have blood as you or I would know it. I believe that being plants, they have some type of chlorophyll for photosynthesis. I think their insides would be more like a tree or a stalk.
You’re mostly right. They have golden sap instead of blood but their physical make up isn’t like ours. They aren’t people made of plant material. They are plants that have grown to look humanoid. i.e.: Their arms don’t have wood for bones and leaves for skin. Their arms are a mass of tightly woven branches, stems and leaves that create the silouette and function of an arm.
edit: also, there are sylvari that have decided to leave the community of the sylvari and don’t share their thoughts and have trained themselves to block out the sounds of the other sylvari. Deciding to leave their natural place seems to indicate a high level of self awareness. In fact, all evidence seems to indicate that they have the same self awareness as every other race. So any arguement against sylvari self awareness can probably be adapted to apply to every other playable race.
(edited by Dustfinger.9510)
I don’t see the point in trying to justify the reasoning behind it through lore or magic. It’s just a simple game mechanic to make the experience more enjoyable and convenient.
I can only speak for myself but I enjoy finding the line between what’s lore and what’s game mechanics.
The first word that came to mind when I started thinking of reasons was: Yoda. Looks kinda like an Asuran too XD
This. You don’t need to be able to out wrestle a Norn to be an effective warrior.
At lvl 15, drop healing rifle and flame turret. (Or nix the rifle so it don’t shoot mobs you dont want to engage). That’s immedite area is your own personal universe and you’re the god. Flame turret will burniate them, you’ll get heals, you have explosive shot aoe, shock aoe, poison shot, knock back, stun, explode turrets for aditional aoe, another aoe from your napalm, two aditional heals from overcharging and gas. If you do end up going down, al the mobs will be low enough health to bring you right back multiple times to finish them off. Especially with your detonate.
“Shoot him in the head! He’s not your grandpa anymore!”
Actually a very good analogy.
Agreed. That’s pretty insightful.
Turrets, condition damage, and level appropriate gear. Especially the gear. Your character profile will tell you in the top right area what level you’re operating at.
As you said, rifle is good for one or two. Anything more than that at a time and you should be hitting multiple mobs with explosive shots, stacking bleeds. And using your shield powers to stun and knock them back.
I’d echo what Mazra said. Sounds like OP is trying to play engineer like a warrior. Ignoring wht a engineer has in favor of only using and wanting what a warrior has should tell you that you aren’t an engineer. You’re a warrior. Limiting yourself to a warrior with medium armor is supposed to put you at a disadvantage.
Relax.
Don’t use ambiguous constructs if you want others to unambiguously understand what you mean.
I give the respect that I get. The entire post that you quoted was pretty un ambiguous. Stating and restating the message several diffrent ways. So, If you tries to misconstrue my message into something that was clearly not said, I’ll correct you. If you further tries to say that that the confusion was my fault when I took severl steps to ensure that there was little confusion, I’ll point out those steps I took.
I try to stay pretty analytical with some doses of humor but as I said, I give the respect that I get.
The same reason we produce. To carry on. I doubt it’s a conscious, well thought out effort. We really don’t know “why” we exist and that’s a fundamental of philosophy. We can only identify benefits to doing it. So we can’t reasonably expect a whole lot more than that when examining the pale tree. So defense is one. Growth is another. Self betterment. Etc.
Plants still benefit from being covered during sudden freezes. So though they might not be affeted like other createures they still might cover up in extreme conditions.
Somewhat your own fault. when you say someone sets a standard, you imply it’s the example for others to follow.
Unless i eliminate the possibility of that implication, which i did. I fail to see how it’s my fault that you intentionally cut out the part of the quoted post that omits that possibility and then chose to respond as if that was my message. I’m really baffled. i specifically said it was the same standard that the Charr had set against others. i specifically stated that I didn’t claim the humans started that ideal. And the analogy that i used referenced the charr doing it to others before that. But despite all of that eliminating the possibility of that implication ……….. it’s my fault.
it’s like you deliberatly took some sentances out of context, responded to the out of context message and didn’t realize that the origional post is still there to verify. Amazing.
You’re arguing against a point that (as far as I have seen) no one is actually making.
This seems to be every other post. (not you specifically) I had to bow out. there’s only so many ways one can say the same thing in every post. it’s like everyone has an agenda and they just use whatever last post there is as a platform whether it addresses it or not.
God isn’t interested in technology! He knows nothing of the potential of the microchip or the silicon revolution! Look how he spends his time! Forty-three species of parrot! Nipples for men!
If I were creating a world, I wouldn’t mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o’clock, day one!
makes a gesture and accidentally shoots an energy bolt from fingers; a shriek of pain from off-screen is heard
Sorry.
Time Banadits reference? Took me a while to place. +5 for you.
Sylvari biology is very different from any other race. They do not have internal organs, but instead are formed of growing plant matter, sap for blood, leaves and bark for skin. A jaw, for example, can be formed by leaves, vines, or even shards of bark that grow and press together to form the silhouette, but if you look closely you can still see the fibers and holes of the structure. Instead of bones, an arm is a mass of tightly-woven stems and leaves that work together to do the work of such a limb.
As an adopted custom, they cover themselves as humans do, concealing certain portions of their anatomy where it seems culturally appropriate.
http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare
Sylvari are a plants intertwined and twisted to imitate humanoid form. They don’t have real organs that provide the same function as our own. They are not people made of plant material, they are plants twisted to imitate people. They don’t have nipples because they the pale tree didn’t see it neccessary to imitate, apparently.
Same with Kisses. Starting or zoning seems to be the problem for me too.
What’s interesting is that as their make up is described, they should technicaly be able to be unwound and if you didn’t do too much damage unwinding them then they would be a flailing living moving bush. (Probably in immense pain wich is kind of disturbing).
Really, they are intelligent plants that were “put through a mold” as they matured to give them a humanoid shape. So, as Urthona said, many of their functions would have to be decentralized.
A jaw, for example, can be formed by leaves, vines, or even shards of bark that grow and press together to form the silhouette, but if you look closely you can still see the fibers and holes of the structure.
http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare
They aren’t people made of plants. they are plants imitating people.
I was wrong. they have no “skin type”. No real limbs or organs the way we do. they have only imitations, so their nervous system would be contained in each individual vine/branch/leaf/etc. Thoug hit references "skin’ it references it as the covering of each peice that makes up the imitation limb, body part, etc.
Sylvari biology is very different from any other race. They do not have internal organs, but instead are formed of growing plant matter, sap for blood, leaves and bark for skin. A jaw, for example, can be formed by leaves, vines, or even shards of bark that grow and press together to form the silhouette, but if you look closely you can still see the fibers and holes of the structure. Instead of bones, an arm is a mass of tightly-woven stems and leaves that work together to do the work of such a limb.
Don’t need justification when you’re a badmofo
He’s a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
Also, great call on the gremlins. i kept thinking a cross between gnomes and goblins but that’s exactly what a gremlin is.
Ehhh. Norn are superstrong even for their size. For a human to be even close to the strength a Norns size would indicate would make them a hero and pargon of their race. The strength that norn actually have is beyond what a human, much less an asura should be able to ever attain. Then using “Hero logic”, a Norn hero player should be well beyond the heroes of other races.
Even Conan the barbarian has been outmatched in strength at some point. That’s okay. He still has other tools at his disposal that allow him to win.
Ash Legion. Engineer. If it can be seen from space, it might have been me. You just can’t prove it.
Lol, nice.
That’s the only way to keep it straight.
In short, I think there’s more than ample evidence to show that various pantheons have reigned in Tyria.
The Aspects have been embodied by various pantheons over the years.
i agree. to put it simply, we know it’s happened and it happening is the only way all the info ties together.
Hence the reason for the “Same mantle, diffrent carriers” theory :P
Had a warrior in Ash Legion before delete. Named him Rhipclaw Nightkill. Now my Charr main is Grindahl. An engineer in Iron Legion.
Posted in the other thread but for those only following this one i’ll repost.:
The gods themselves only predate humans by a short period of time.http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Human#History
So, in order for them to be the same gods they would have to predate the humans by multiple thousands of years in order to have brought the forgottten to Tyria.
The gods themselves only predate humans by a short period of time.http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Human#History
If they were the same gods, they’d have to predate them by multiple thousand years.
You realize though, that the quote you are making is extremely flawed?
The race of serpents mentioned in this text are the Forgotten, and it is known that these creatures existed on Tyria during the time of the last awakening of the Elder Dragons. Now this isn’t to say that the gods didn’t bring them to Tyria, but if this is the case it seems that the gods tend to come to Tyria, bring races, and get the heck outta dodge before the dragons awake again. Hmm perhaps the gods are bringing the dragons meals so that they won’t attack the mists? :P
I proposed something similar higher up in the thread(Getting out of dodge) but then I found them referred to as the ‘old gods’. This plus the confirmation that the pantheons change seems to indicate that the personalities change as other attain or take the mantle of godhood from the previous god.
What we know:
The 6 gods brought the humans to Tyria. Their age is tied to the arival of humanity.
The gods brought the Forgotten to the world 3000 years ago.
The Charr consider these the same gods (Their ancient enemies), for some reason.
The ones that brought the forgotten are referred to as the “old gods” by A-Net http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Tyria
The Jotun recount a history of the same gods abandoning the Norn and Jotun in favor of humanity.
Working theory: The mantle of godhood has remained constant but the personalities of the pantheon have changed over time. For wwe know that godhood can be attained by non-gods.
edit: I’ll check back in a bit.
ANet clearly states that the Human Gods only slightly predate humanity, so I offer that the Six Aspects of Power existed on Tyria before the Six Human Gods took up the mantles of those Aspects.
Upon further exploration, A-Net seems to support this.
It was almost three thousand years ago that a race of serpents stepped out of the Rift onto the soil of Tyria. Unlike ordinary serpents, these moved upright, used language, and adhered to an elaborate culture. They had been summoned by the old gods, brought to this world to be the custodians.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Tyria
Well yeah…since the new writers took over they did. If GW2 never came out there would be no reason to think the Charr were any different from other “mobs” out there you have to kill. And not because it was because you never heard their side of the story or anything, it’s because there was never any inkling of history or in-game cues that would lean that direction. Again, I’m talking pre-EotN.
My point is that they were artifically augmented, both culturally and cognitively, for the purposes of this game…and not because that’s where they were headed anyway. They might as well have randomly picked any of the creatures that walked or crawled around Tryia at that time. It’s arbitrary really..
They had powerful magic. they were organized. Using their magic and organization they were able to take on and beat one of the most powerful nations in the land. The Charr weren’t rewriten as you suggest. they were further explored.
The reason you find so many upset about them in particular is because of how they are presently portrayed in relation to anything Ascalon. ANet could have written the story to better reflect the past. But instead they chose to demonize a king(Adelbern), marginalize(to the point of eradicate) the GW1 Tyrian player’s primary heritage(Ascalon); and at the same time unrealistically promote that which became the reason for their demise(modern Charr).
The kings choices have been portrayed as folly since the beginning.
The modern Charr hardly show any magnanimity towards Ascalon or its people, as Anakita already pointed out. Their attitude is condescending at the least, and reviling at the most. Why ANet chose to use them as a major player in GW2 I’ll never know, but transforming them into virtual engineers was way off the mark.
Working with humans is indeed a degree of magnanimity. Especially if they are presented with the same rights in their own capitol as the Charr (Which they are).
Before the modern lore came out it was assumed by many Ascalon would eventually recover from the Searing, if somewhat weakened by it. There was no indication pre-EotN(or pre-novels) that the nails were in the coffin. In fact, the signs all pointed toward a recovery after the defeat of the Titans…the source of power for the Charr. But the writer’s couldn’t reconcile that with having the Charr be a playable race in this game. So they quietly wrote Ascalon out of any future.
Limiting all “acceptable” lore as everything pre EotN/pre Novels is telling. As you said, assumptions were made and they were wrong.
Finally, there’s no reason to paint Adelbern as a mad king. He was proud yes, but human nonetheless, and felt real regret with his relations with his son. These were his last words in the game after the he defeats the Titans:
“A long time have I fought for Ascalon. First as a soldier blessed by Balthazar, now as its king. Though I have survived one more battle, and I will see another day, it will not make me any more wise… only one day older. I have lost all that a man can lose. All that I have left is this antiquated set of armor and the remains of this tattered kingdom. I thank you for your help today. Rurik would have been very proud of all you have accomplished.”
Hardly the words of vengeful madman.
What your showing here is evidence of his humanity. That’s not in dispute. His actions were folly from the beginning. How history looks at historical figures is largly based on their historical actions. Keep in mind, this is 250 years later. The people that new and loved him no longer exist.
So do I feel sorry for Ascalon’s ghosts? Yes, as much as I feel sorry every Ascalonian. Or any player that identified with them in the first game as well. ANet writers did themselves a disservice by this.
So, I stick by my origional post and for any fan that identifies themselves as the first game, I can only say they are outdated sentiments of a dead past. Out dated by 250 game years.
edit: Anakita’s link was very informative though.
Driven back in the first war against the humans, the Charr were forced to surrender the lands that would become Ascalon
So, we do know that the humans set a standard and we do know what that standard was. it’s the same standard the charr had set against others.
You might want to read the entire document and not forget about
“No longer clamoring over the same territories, the unified Charr spread throughout the northern reaches of their homeland, and down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains. The Charr subjugated or destroyed any and all who dared defy them within their territories; they were masters of all they surveyed”
Where war and conquest were concerned, the Charr really didn’t need humans to set any standards for them, they were perfectly able to set them themselves, long before humans came north of the crystal desert. But had the humans lived north of the desert in the time of Charr expansion I have no doubt the Charr would have attacked and “subjugated or destroyed” them.
Has it occurred to you that the unchecked expansion of this “primitive people, filled with rage and a primal drive to dominate and control” was the reason why the Six, aided by the humans, moved against them?
I read that. You missed my point. Your argueing against a point that was never made. Anything I can say about this post has already been said in my previous posts.
edit: in fact any response I can give was in that very same post that you quoted of mine. And as I said, it’s the same standard that the charr had set against others.
(edited by Dustfinger.9510)
As i think about it, I’m inclined to agree with you. They do seem to be pushing that 25 pretty hard.
No assumption. It’s been confirmed in the last 250 game years ;P So anyone who only ever got a chance to see that ’animal side" is probably long dead.
On Churchill: Not sure how that applies. the Charr were the winners and showed a degree of magnanimity. Which further demonstrates their intelligence.
Muninn Hrafnsson: I like it.
I know they are based off Norse archtypes but i saw the “war paint” option in the tatoo and took that like an invitation for creative liscense. Made mine a Native American theme named “Big Elk”. I don’t care if you disagree ;P
My reasoning is that in the 250 years that they have moved south, some tribes may easily have taken customs similar to Native Americans. We have the “war paint” and the darker skin tones, after all. I also when with the long hair over the mohawk.
I’d guess “25” is a convenient estimation. A nice easy number to work with but 23 is the actual number.
or, 23 years ago they first “APPEARED” along the tarnished coast. Sprouting from the pale tree. meaning there may have been a couple of years that no one knew about them.
So we have two seemingly conflicting ideals. A-Net endorses both of them. In an effort to reconcile these statements i’ll propose this:
The “gods” themselves predate the humans on Tyria by many centuries (The beginning of history by charr standards). Indead they can be traced to the arival of the Forgotten on tyria. But the incarnations of the actual power of the gods has changed over time. Most recently being the personalities we know today.
Or, they were here before leaving and came back with humanity. But they were here in some way shape ot form long before humanity was.
Sure, there was no reason to think them capable of civility until they showed that initial impressions were wrong. Especially during a war, the enemy tends to be dehumanized. But when the war is overWhen WWI was over soldiers left their trenches and shared their cigarrettes with the other side. And there’s been 250 years to show there’s more to them than savagry.
“In victory, magnanimity” – Winston Churchill
The option is that your father was a shaman and therefor not trusted. Due to the fire legion shaman/titan debachle. magic itself is fine. One of the companion options is an elementalist and described as the most loyal friend.
“Magic’ is exactlly the answer. Witches float. they have magic and you know thme becasue they float. Ergo, floating islands are witches and full of magic.
you know what else floats? A DUCK.
/montypythonreferenceoftheday
ergo, a floating island and a duck both weigh the same. :P
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr
Then, the humans came, an infestation caused by beings called gods that had been enemies to the Charr since the beginnings of history
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten
It is said that the forgotten were originally brought to Tyria from some unknown realm beyond the Mists by the Six Human Gods.
The gods were here long before they brought humanity to the land. They brought the Forgotten here too.
(edited by Dustfinger.9510)