Guild Wars 2

It does seem to be giving us the view of how the charr saw things. e.g.:" the humans were like a plague that spread across the land."

but i like that because GW1 gave us the view of the humans. It painted a picture of mad beastmen bent on burning the world but that’s probably how the humans saw the charr 250 years ago.

Now we get to see how the charr saw those same things. (Including the “mad beastmen bent on burning the world” phase). it’s interesting that the charr saw the gods as their ancient enemies.

“Magic’ is exactlly the answer. Witches float. they have magic and you know thme becasue they float. Ergo, floating islands are witches and full of magic.

The origin of words is less important than their current cultural use.

e.g.: Witch comes from a latin word meaning wise woman. When we talk about a witch we refer to an evil, kitten of the devil who eats children and lives in gingerbread houses while dancing naked in the night of a new moon casting spells from a bubbling cauldron full of chickens teeth and eye of newt.

Obsidian.1328:

Dustfinger

“In the days before the Gods of Tyria brought the humans to Tyria, the Charr battled with the Forgotten in the Blazeridge Mountains. Long after the Forgotten stopped threatening the Charr, the humans appeared and, with the help of their Gods, pushed the Charr from their southern borders, conquering the land that became known as Ascalon in 100 BE.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr

True, it’s unclear who was in Ascalon first, but it seems to not point to the Charr as their very first reference points to the Blazeridge Mountains. At any rate, the game of “Who was first?” is a self-perpetuating cycle with no end. Additionally, you would be groundless to say the humans invented the “might makes right” idea….the Charr basically live by that rule. And everything about them suggests they always have.

This is why i’m not trying to play a game of who was first. Only that it’s a fact that the charr were invvaded and as the invadees, it is no surprise that they would respond in kind. (especially given their history). Also, never did i claim that humans invented the might makes right idea. what i did say is that they set that specific standard when they came to the land. so, because of the fact that they were in full support of that standard, I don’t feel sorry for them. (Though, as per my first post I do feel sorry that they endure a curse.) As per my analogy, it doesn’t matter how many other people the charr may have punched, if you punch them you should expect a similar retaliation.

edit: Anakita’s link was very informative though.

Driven back in the first war against the humans, the Charr were forced to surrender the lands that would become Ascalon

So, we do know that the humans set a standard and we do know what that standard was. it’s the same standard the charr had set against others.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

I can see why we may be talking at cross purposes, then. From the official source material:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

Awesome link. I’ll have to read up more.

Assuming the humans committed atrocities like the Searing rather than engaging in a peaceful Sylvari-like expansion (I don’t think we have the details on that,) then yes, what the humans did was wrong too. My guess is the humans did commit atrocities, and those should be a source of regret and the species should increase in enlightenment after those bad times.

Harming Charr civilians would be equally wrong. That just didn’t seem to be the subject of current discussion, so I figured it would just be assumed from what I said about an equal standard. I guess I should have been more specific.

My point has never been that humanity as a race has never engaged in wrongdoing in Tyria. That’s not true at all. Humans have done some wretched things. I just think the collective guilt thing often gets taken too far – especially when it involves blaming present humans for things that happened a thousand years ago.

Ah, i gottcha. My point was never to blame the individual humans for their ancestors crimes. I never prescribed fault to those individuals that paid the price. My first post summed up only that the charr can’t really be blamed for responding the way they did.

So that was my whole point about living by the sword. That war is hell. both for the charr and for the humans. My intention was kind of to equate them but i do see that focusing on one over the other did skew that message. Anyways, thanks for that link.

Zyrusticae.7245:

As far as I’m concerned, //intimidating manner…

Just want to say how awesome he looks. GG

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

The human nation set a standard of might makes right.

Wait – your response to my pointing out that the Charr were the conquerors of Ascalon first, was that humans set the standard that might makes right? That doesn’t even follow. Did you mean to say the Charr did and just made a typo? Because if we’re talking about who took Ascalon by force first and established (if it exists) a “law of the land,” that would be the Charr.

Either way, I don’t think that standard ever reaches a workable conclusion. By that standard every nation has set the principle that might makes right by some action someone did somewhere back in history, and it is thus right to destroy the civilians of any nation for any reason at any time. Moral issues aside, that’s impractical.

Also, if all that matters is the spread of a population and the means are irrelevant, the biggest current offender nation is… um… the Sylvari. They’re moving into territory at a very rapid clip, taking in a generation what other nations took in centuries. Morally, though, the Sylvari just existing doesn’t compare to a deliberate attack like the Searing (or the Foefire.)

I will be honest that what this discussion often seems to boil down to is people suggesting that the Charr should be held to a different standard than anyone else, and that whether something is right or wrong depends more on whether the Charr are on the giving or receiving end rather than the action itself.

First of all, I don’t think it’s been confirmed that the charr conquered that specific land first. If they had it wasn’t from humans so yes, that is my response because thta’s exactly what the humans did.

Secondly, that standard was acceptable by the humans. Acceptable by the charr. ANY sympathy you would give to the “innocent civilian humans” you will have to give to the charr when the humans got there. So, now wether it’s right or wrong is dependant upon whether it happens to the humans. hmmm.

Back to MY point. What the humans did was fine. What the charr did was fine. if You punch someone in the face, no matter how many other they had punched in their own lifetime, you can probably expect that they are going to punch you in the face as well, given the oportunity. especially if they are known for punching others. (Which they weren’t, as far as the humans knew).

So, do I feel sorry for a human nation that brought catasrophy upon itself? No. Do I feel sorry for a charr nation that brought catastophy upon itself with the flame legion? No. Do i commend the charr for solving their problem of the catastrophy they brought on themselves? Yea.

Obsidian.1328:

The humans hardly set that standard. They weren’t in the business of conquest, they merely wanted to keep their lands. I mean, the gods themselves specifically brought the humans to Ascalon to settle. The humans were just defending territory they thought was rightly bestowed upon them by Dwayna and the others. The Charr on the other hand, were in Ascalon because that’s where their warmongering had carried them. After the Forgotten had been driven off, the Charr were still around the area…probably itching for someone else to beat on.

The real culprit in all this mess is the gods themselves. They wedged the humans into a volatile area, then left them to figure it out on their own. Tyrian gods, like Greek gods, are not perfect. They make mistakes(see Abbadon). Unfortunately, this mistake has to be paid for eternity by the Ghosts of Ascalon.

The humans did set that standard. that’s how they got that land. I’m not sure that we know the charr took that land from anyone first or if it was open land when they got there but yes, the humans definatly set that standard when they got there.

It’s not what the asura use. From the researcher at Loch Jezt:

Researcher: Interesting . Inverse parabolic flux dampening.

Tommi Gnocker (That’s me): What are you doing?

Researcher: We’re studying this bridge. It’s been floating for ages with no apparent means of support. No outside influence. scientific curiosity demands we find the mysterious mechanism that makes it float.

Tommi Gnocker: Good luck.

Might as well as CriSPeh said. it takes nothing from us. i wouldn’t use a hammer myself but it may come with a weopon toggle so that’s a plus.

Charr are beasts like beauty and the beast.

In Nordic lore the giants and ogres (and trolls?) were all lumped together against the gods. So the Norn and Jotun may both fullfill that role. Even the jotun in the Norn city refers to the time of the giants when both the Norn and the Jotun ruled unopposed.

I take the skill ‘blundebuss" like a clue. Blunderbuss’ were a precursor to the shotgun amd were shot from the hip on the larger models becasue holding them like a rifle would cause the powder flare to burn your face. The smaller models were held at arms length for the same reason.

edit: Karast beat me to it.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

The humans of Ascalon were judged by their own rules of conquest.

Many of the humans caught in the Foefire were just civilians who had no part in any conquests. In the book, we see ghosts who were shepherds and farmers in life, and in the game there are plenty of ghosts marked “peasant.” Not all of them were even soldiers.

And are you talking about when humans originally conquered Ascalon? None of the humans alive at the time of the Foefire (or even the Searing) had even been born then. It would have been their distant ancestors.

As I keep pointing out on this forum, Charr also were not the original inhabitants of Ascalon – they just took it in a somewhat earlier conquest, during the time of the first Khan-Ur.

It’s not a fair standard to hold people responsible for the deeds of their ancestors which they had no control over. Nor does it make practical or moral sense to say any group has the right to take back any land their nation ever controlled, by whatever means are expedient. If we are arguing original habitation as the primary claim, the Charr have no claim on Ascalon either.

Most of the Foefire victims did nothing to deserve their fate.

it’s all moot. The human nation set a standard of might makes right. Maybe the charr did it to someone else, maybe not. either way the standardis might makes right. No ones holding civilians responsible for their ancestos. They are simply abiding by the rules of the land. That rule is war and war is hell.

In fact, i said it fine if the standard is might makes right. My issue is that you can’t blame the charr, as I said in my post.

Empty Lord.8675:

Most, if not all intellectuals will directly or abstractly view others that are less intelligent as inferior. This doesn’t make one a ‘racist’.

it does if it’s based on race :P

Ramethzero.3785:

I was the last dragon, and I wanted the power of the glow.
When soemone ask, who yo daddy.. you say Shooooo Nuff!

Yo, Leroy! Bruce, Leroy!

yes they are racist. But it’s not a bad thing since it isn’t expressed in hatred but smugness.

Xojja/Xoajja :P

It’s not often you get to play a race of giants. the fact that they aren’t a boring and generic giant is also bonus.

nofo.8469:

Interesting, hadn’t thought about that. Very good point.

Ya, I found that out about a month ago from one of those pawn shop shows. Someone brought in a blunderbuss that he thought was a shotgun for a child so the owner called in a gun guru to appraise it.

nofo.8469:

Hip firing a shotgun or rifle irl is extremely rare and would hardly call it a tactic. It is extremely rare because it is innacurate and will likely hurt you, especially if you do it repeatedly.

Whether or not you think it looks stupid is up to the individual but please for the love of god don’t try to argue realism in favor of hip firing.

I think the shotgun for the engineer is more of an actual blunderbuss. When they were used they were shot from the hip on the larger modles or with an extended arm for the smaller models but they weren’t shot like a rifle because the powder flash would burn your face.

I made an asura warrior but relegated myself to a rifle in RP situations before deleting him.

Though, we see the peace keepers carrying hammers and swords. I doubt they would compare with warriors of the bigger races. So I see no problem justifying putting them in the same league. personally though, i wouldn’t try so hard to make yours the equal of a Norn warrior. I’d tone it down maybe to a tonic or something that increased my physical characteristics making me utilize my game given acrobatics to stay on par. Also, keep in mind that Asura weopons are alot smaller than Norn so that needs no justification. In the case of feats like the hammer, I might go with an augmented weopon over Norn-strength but that’s just my flavor. My two cents.

Made mine a hyena too. Named Grindahl.

I like em. They’re new and refreshing. it was my understanding that their creator wanted to move away from common fanatasy “boxes”. She created something pretty new and i think expecting anything would have been the mistake. I actually expected them to be taller than human and was disappointed when i found out that tree people are smaller than people. But that was my mistake.

I jump on Charr’s cause they’re soft.

I thinks it’s being done. I got an invite to the Peacemaker Network

“Those who live by the sword die by the sword”

I don’t feel sorry for them for being conquered but for being cursed. The humans of Ascalon were judged by their own rules of conquest. if invaders decide that might makes right, great, but you can’t blame the invaded people for retaliating in the same way.

I like the way they did it. Any racial strengths can be RPed but this way it keeps each class from needing to be a certain race to be competitive.

here’s a great link providewd by Titaniumboy in another thread:

And here’s what’s on GW2 wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Colleges

here’s a great link providewd by Titaniumboy in another thread:

And here’s what’s on GW2 wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Colleges

@ Lady grey: Venthus is right. I just took the basic ideoligies of each college and ran with it :P

The College of Statics uses base 10. Then build on that base 10 to a base 100 in order to make sure that base ten is still constant. then proceed to work from the second base 10.

The College of Dynamics uses an inverse base 10. They start with 10 as we would a zero. they break it down and subtract as we would use groups of ten to add. This spontaniously provides arithmetic problems to answers that no one else persieves.

The College of Synergetics uses a metiphysical cybernetic ideology to create an abstract base. Their numerical system focuses less on a mathematical equation always having the same outcome and more on the pattern of the myriad of answers each individual equation can have.

The Theory of EveryCollege or Eternal Alchemy links all college bases together into one unifying workable equation that no one quite has a grasp on.

most display plantlike features such as hard wood for bone structure, have foliage and petals for hair

while sylvari can and do have sex, it is not for reproduction as sylvari can only be born from the Pale Tree.

from GW2 wiki on the sylvari page

My asura is engineer. i just made him college of statics with the repetion mentor. ………using what works.

I’m on Tarnished Coast and love racial themed guilds. would love an asuran guild.

Check out the ‘cutest asura contest’ thread. some good creations.

Cinder.4865:

Venthus.6137:

…but I’m still holding out for some kind of lore that makes sense.

Asura clearly feed their progeny like birds feed their young!

This. or at least that’s how it was origionally. now it’s feeding tubes, matrix style!

A single Norn ripped out Jormags tooth. They sent less than a handful to deal with the “Dragon problem”. Human form against animal in this case is more like Grown man against house cat. easy win.

Well, they definatlly feel pain because they are tortured in game by the NC. I would guess that the thickness of their skin varies with the skin type.

From GW2 wiki “When a sylvari is harmed, instead of scarring tissue they heal via tendrils and expanding bark, but heal at the same general rate as humans”

So the thicker skin types like bark may well be more resistant to damage but if the nerve endings are closer to the surface they can be just as sensitive. or, the skin may be alot thinner on the areas that require a greater sense of touch like finger tips.

OOooooooohhhh! i gotcha.

This actually isn’t too far from where i’m at. The only question would be, if they did come across an “ultimate being” would they adopt it as their God if that God was willing?

I don’t think there’d be a cut and dry answer. IMO, some would, some wouldn’t. The majority would be averse to the idea at first but there is still something that allows the Fire legion the ability to keep recruiting. if that following proved to be beneficial without glaring drawbacks, i imagine the Charr could get a new God. But… we’d need an ultimate being for that to even be a possibility and I don’t think we know that such a being exists in the lore.

Not sure. i didn’t play GW after Nightfall. But it would make sense. There’s got to be a whole other world under ground if the dwarves, skritt and asuran were thriving.

Piranah have similar teeth and use them primarily to break nuts and seed shells. Asuran may use them for bug carapaces as well.

My engineer is just below mid level and my necro is tiny, thin and sickly.

……. with a giant head.

Playing Charr is like Norn strength. The more awesome it is, the less members you need to get the job done.

Ah, I gotcha. I can definatly see that. I guess it just comes down to interpretation. I’ll hit one bit here though.

To say that X gods are false, and false gods are unworthy of worship, could just reflect the feeling that there is nothing worthy of being categorized as a god and worshipped; that the idea itself is false.

That seems very philisophical and to me the Charr seem more bitter than philisophical. But that would just go right back to interpretation I guess.

Every example I can think of says procreation doesn’t really need to be learned. Who taught the Pale tree how to make sylvari?

Also, “possibilities” can be argued to a supremem illogical extreme. It’s "possible’ that humans don’t birth like on earth or maybe they secretly also have a way of giving birth by digging up babies from a cabbage patch :P But since there is absolutly no indication of it and since we know how humans absolutly do procreate, probably no cabbage babies outside of the sylvari. Probability says we know the one way sylvari procreate. By the Pale Tree.

I think that’s pretty indicative of what’s possible. Kids happen by accident quite a bit. if the sylvari have been around for 25 years in adult bodies and not one single child was concieved then it probably can’t happen.

25 years is quite a bit of time. Not reproducing in a quarter of a century when we clearly see romantic relationships are not uncommon in sylvari society seems to equate not doing it with not being able to do it. especially when we know how sylvari definatly do ‘proceate’.

As I said, it makes sense that way if taken alone. but it’s not alone.

And they haven’t seen anything that’s met their criteria so living up to it would be pretty easy :P

LameFox.6349:

I don’t think I follow. Why does wanting to identify something when they come across it necessarily mean they are subconsciously looking for one specific thing it might have been? Perhaps they’re simply ruling out the things it isn’t.

Even their battle cry (among other things it says) claims that ‘charr need no gods’. Supposing they did come across a ‘real’ one, and it wasn’t making any valid existence-ending threats against them, for all we know they might simply accept that it’s there and move on without paying it much attention.

Because their way of identifying involves circular reasoning. They also don’t seem too eager to catogorize anything beyond “Not a god because it’s not a God”. So we see that their goal isn’t simply wanting to identify things.

“Char need no gods”: The attitude that the human gods are unworthy of worship because they are killable indicates that that finding a ‘real’ one would make it worthy of worship. Factoring that in, the constant self affirmment of not needing a god seems to be more out of bitterness and eventually a bitter-sweet pride than a self realization of pure atheism.

So the rejection of known ‘gods’ by itself can indicate a true spirit of atheism. But couple that with the indication that a true God is worthy of worship and it points to a diffrent conclusion.

LameFox.6349:

I don’t think this is necessarily true (that they’re ‘looking’ for one). Absolute power could just be a handy yardstick: a way to draw the line between god and generic powerful being without having to come up with some abstract level of awesome a being has to be before it achieves god status.

The “Looking” is a subconsious effort. the diffrence between denying a possibility completely and weighing the known examples against that ideal. otherwise, they wouldn’t need a yardstick at all. but the fact that they have one and they use it indicates that they are looking. Like a branch of science. the scientific method is utilized in a search. That search is “looking”. The hypothesis may not always be true but the “quest to find” or “looking” is still there.

Engineer isn’t so strange. Humans use technology rather than bone clubs and claw knives. And sylvari get a broad world view in the dream.