Guild Wars 2

GW is darker than it appears.

Humans are comparable to Ed Geins the serial killer who wore his victims skins.

Charr are blood thirsty savage beast people.

Sylvari are movie classic pod-people.

Asura are gremlins. Any of which is a coin toss when it comes to whether they have any compunctions about experimenting on you.

Norn morality is based soley on being the best at something. Even if that something focuses on crimes against humanity (and all other sentient beings). It is completely acceptable to them.

Obsidian.1328:

They’ve wanted to make an Engi class since Factions, the lore decision to link its birth to the Charr is a no-brainer considering there are probably more rusty sprockets in the Citadel than there are Charr in Tyria.

I would counter that design decisions means a lot if you want anyone to take your narrative even moderately seriously. Specifically creating the lore so that it bends to every single game design mechanic is backwards thinking. That would be like Lucas(in the modern era) working on the movie Return of the Jedi, and trying to make sure an ISD and a Mon Cal Cruiser have fairly equal firepower so that when the video game comes out both sides are “balanced” in the capital ship department. That would be insanely silly.

GW1 ANet once stated that one Charr is the rough combat equivalent to 2-4 humans? The exact number may be off a bit, but that obviously isn’t true now. Did the Charr somehow get a lot weaker after 250 years? Of course not. But it would be just as insanely silly of them to have that true while having the Charr as a playable race. So they bend the lore(in this case, letting it die out) to have a balanced game.

The lore in GW2 will always and forever be the slave to game mechanics.

You misunderstand me. I don’t contend that design descision means a lot. I actually endorsed it by stating that design descision permeates all aspects of game design. Even lore. What I’m saying is that pointing out the fact that there is design descision doesn’t mean anything because there is design decision in everything that is done. But it doesn’t negate lore from happening. So there is simply no correlation to pointing out design decision in an effort to demonstrate that lore isn’t happening.

In lore, the average charr are more physically capable than the average human. Just as norn are. That hasn’t changed. What you’re doing is confusing game mechanics with lore. Specifically creating the lore so that it bends to every single game design mechanic would be backwards thinking. But a-net doesn’t do that.

Like most members of char society, they would tend to be geared for war. In GW1 they were called charr “Chaots”. And when a-net described charr elementalists, they described how the rest of the warband would appreciate a timely meteor shower.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr_Chaot

http://www.onlinewelten.com/games/guild-wars-2/interviews/jeff-grubb-im-interview-zu-charr-7759/seite-3/

MrForz.1953:

I can hardly keep track of what’s going on anymore.

If you’re not in it for the lulz, you’ll only bring misery into your personal existence.

Everytime Veewee smiles, a flower blooms and a baby sneezes. …….Due to direct correlation. Not happenstance.

Darius.4710:

Dustfinger.9510:

Darius.4710:

Dustfinger.9510:

Fascinating!

Tell me more of these mysterious missing posts. What did they entail? Where did they go? Is it too painful to talk about? Did the posts pack up and move out because of something you said in anger but later came to realize you never meant and if they would just answer your phone calls they’d see how much they need you just as you need them?

I tried respecting you, but you’re so emotionally involved that you can’t do the same. You let it get in your way. I guess that’s your way of making your exit when you’re wrong. Oh well.

As for the missing posts, let me tip you about moderation, since you don’t seem to know much about it. If you reply to a post they deleted, they delete your post as well.

Relax, being emotionally involved isn’t a good thing.

The mystery posts that would tie it all together. Shame they ….. can’t ..be…found. And of course you weren’t emotionally tied to posts that were so bad that the mods stepped in. Even though you apparently continued to respond to them. Not to mention the fact that they weren’t mentioned until just recently, only after we had to go through all of this. Just to find out that most of what was discussed and responded to…….. and defended by you had nothing to do with your entire point. But, I’m happy to let the greater forum community decide what actually happened here, if you are. I can’t tell if this experience has brought us closer together of farther apart.

OT:

Veewee talk tai. Veewee talk tai, real good!!!

You know some of your posts could get the moderators attention, and you know exactly why. Now, if they’re deleted, so will my replies to you. According to you my posts were problematic in one way or another, right?

I only recently mentioned the fact I replied to a part of Vee Wee’s post, instead of the entire post. Since it was only mentioned recently I must had something to hide, according to you, right?

We get it, you were wrong. Now you’re trying to do your best efforts to make sure I’m in the wrong somehow. You know it’s also one of the signs telling how emotionally involved you are. Just like the ways you finish some of your posts. By all means, go on, but don’t say I wasn’t trying to spare you the shame…

If mine get deleted yours will be for the same reason. But as I said, I’m happy to let the forum community decide. This is why I post links

Darius.4710:

Dustfinger.9510:

Fascinating!

Tell me more of these mysterious missing posts. What did they entail? Where did they go? Is it too painful to talk about? Did the posts pack up and move out because of something you said in anger but later came to realize you never meant and if they would just answer your phone calls they’d see how much they need you just as you need them?

I tried respecting you, but you’re so emotionally involved that you can’t do the same. You let it get in your way. I guess that’s your way of making your exit when you’re wrong. Oh well.

As for the missing posts, let me tip you about moderation, since you don’t seem to know much about it. If you reply to a post they deleted, they delete your post as well.

Relax, being emotionally involved isn’t a good thing.

The mystery posts that would tie it all together. Shame they ….. can’t ..be…found. And of course you weren’t emotionally tied to posts that were so bad that the mods stepped in. Even though you apparently continued to respond to them. Not to mention the fact that they weren’t mentioned until just recently, only after we had to go through all of this. Just to find out that most of what was discussed and responded to…….. and defended by you had nothing to do with your entire point. But, I’m happy to let the greater forum community decide what actually happened here, if you are. I can’t tell if this experience has brought us closer together of farther apart.

OT:

Veewee talk tai. Veewee talk tai, real good!!!

Fascinating!

Tell me more of these mysterious missing posts. What did they entail? Where did they go? Is it too painful to talk about? Did the posts pack up and move out because of something you said in anger but later came to realize you never meant and if they would just answer your phone calls they’d see how much they need you just as you need them?

Darius.4710:

Dustfinger.9510:

Darius.4710:

No, your facts are anything but straight, but I honestly admire your efforts.

Let’s start by saying it matters not if someone said, somewhere in a thread, that the player is the bad one, or if a build is useless. It matters not if the discussion evolved and Vee Wee wasn’t responding to that directly, which was the case in link #3. You also missed (on purpose, or not), the following part from that link:

Darius.4710:

“ellesee.8297:
Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
Vee Wee doesn’t understand! Didn’t Vee Wee say Vee Wee advocates playing what you enjoy playing! How is that being intolerant! We have some PvE elitists saying a certain build is bad just because you’ll take 2 minutes longer to clear a dungeon if you run that build! And then they back it up with talk of spreadsheets and dps calculators and etc! If that’s not a min max nerdo then Vee Wee doesn’t know what is! That is also where the true intolerance is! Anyway again Vee Wee thinks people should play PvE how they want to play it! Whether it’s a thuper fun build like Flamethrower or some finely crafted build with the highest damage possible, play what you enjoy my frands!
Wahoo! Bye frands!"

You can easily see the terms “elitists” and “nerdo”, which is exactly what name calling is. All that was just because someone didn’t share the same values you do.

---

The first two links have to do with something that’s entirely different. I haven’t seen a lot of support for the quote from link #1. I have also seen no one accusing Vee Wee of anything regarding link #2. In short, it’s a strawman argument. Way to go?

---

See? Here’s your problem. You’re trying to defend Vee Wee at all cost. I also defended Vee Wee myself with my first post in this thread. As opposed to you, I don’t try to cover for one’s wrong-doings.

By the way, the last part of your post shamed you, not me, because you only proved how wrong you are. If you weren’t in such a hurry to declare yourself as the victor, you’d look allright. Now? Well, shame indeed. Shame…

Umm…… The second link from veewee immediately follows the first link from Rozbuska and specifically addresses the wording of Rozuska’s post. (Like what I’m doing here responding to your post). The third link from you specifically quotes the second link from veewee and uses the fourth link as “proof”. Anyone can confirm this. that’s why I post links.

You see, all that bolded actually does matter. It applies to the context of what was typed. Curious how earlier you were an advocate for context and now none of it matters. So me sticking to the context that you championed earlier suddenly becomes my strawman. Clearly you have no compunctions trying to cover for yourself. The secret to my success here is that I don’t need to cover for Veewee. History has been recorded here in black and white. it’s easily verifiable.

But now that I provide the link to that history, suddenly you don’t want context to matter for much. Even in a discussion about how disingenuous and intentionally misleading someone can be. ………Amazing.

This is funny. Just because I quoted the entire post never implied I was refering to each and every part of it. Have you seriously seen no case in which a post is quoted but the reply refers just to parts of it? Seriously?

Vee Wee said that someone called her names, and that was the part I replied to. Vee Wee was talking about me specifically, whether you were aware of it or not. It had everything to do with the “burn baby burn” thread. Some of the discussion isn’t there anymore. You weren’t aware of it and this is anything but my fault.

You have yet to refute the proof I provided which proved Vee Wee called names due to value differences. That said, my facts are the ones remaining straight. Yours, on the other hand…

Another funny part is that you’re saying I haven’t discussed the context in my last post which is wrong. Plain and simple. II said you’re trying to imply that a part of the thread was the one Vee Wee replied to, when it was actually far back (nor was it quoted by Vee Wee)…

---

You’re way too emotionally involved and keep declaring yourself as the victor, or as someone who proved I avoid context (etc.). Please don’t shame yourself. This is the second time you’re trying to make fun of someone else only to be found the one in shame.

Oooooohhhhhh!!! LOL!! I see where the misunderstanding was. The majority of this entire page that you have been making points and counter points to…. wasn’t actually part of your conversation, even though it was a huge part of your actual conversation. I get it now.

Darius.4710:

No, your facts are anything but straight, but I honestly admire your efforts.

Let’s start by saying it matters not if someone said, somewhere in a thread, that the player is the bad one, or if a build is useless. It matters not if the discussion evolved and Vee Wee wasn’t responding to that directly, which was the case in link #3. You also missed (on purpose, or not), the following part from that link:

Darius.4710:

“ellesee.8297:
Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
Vee Wee doesn’t understand! Didn’t Vee Wee say Vee Wee advocates playing what you enjoy playing! How is that being intolerant! We have some PvE elitists saying a certain build is bad just because you’ll take 2 minutes longer to clear a dungeon if you run that build! And then they back it up with talk of spreadsheets and dps calculators and etc! If that’s not a min max nerdo then Vee Wee doesn’t know what is! That is also where the true intolerance is! Anyway again Vee Wee thinks people should play PvE how they want to play it! Whether it’s a thuper fun build like Flamethrower or some finely crafted build with the highest damage possible, play what you enjoy my frands!
Wahoo! Bye frands!"

You can easily see the terms “elitists” and “nerdo”, which is exactly what name calling is. All that was just because someone didn’t share the same values you do.

---

The first two links have to do with something that’s entirely different. I haven’t seen a lot of support for the quote from link #1. I have also seen no one accusing Vee Wee of anything regarding link #2. In short, it’s a strawman argument. Way to go?

---

See? Here’s your problem. You’re trying to defend Vee Wee at all cost. I also defended Vee Wee myself with my first post in this thread. As opposed to you, I don’t try to cover for one’s wrong-doings.

By the way, the last part of your post shamed you, not me, because you only proved how wrong you are. If you weren’t in such a hurry to declare yourself as the victor, you’d look allright. Now? Well, shame indeed. Shame…

Umm…… The second link from veewee immediately follows the first link from Rozbuska and specifically addresses the wording of Rozuska’s post. (Like what I’m doing here responding to your post). The third link from you specifically quotes the second link from veewee and uses the fourth link as “proof”. Anyone can confirm this. that’s why I post links.

You see, all that bolded actually does matter. It applies to the context of what was typed. Curious how earlier you were an advocate for context and now none of it matters. So me sticking to the context that you championed earlier suddenly becomes my strawman. Clearly you have no compunctions trying to cover for yourself. The secret to my success here is that I don’t need to cover for Veewee. History has been recorded here in black and white. it’s easily verifiable.

But now that I provide the link to that history, suddenly you don’t want context to matter for much. Even in a discussion about how disingenuous and intentionally misleading someone can be. ………Amazing.

Naughty naughty. I took your advice and read it again. Seems you are pulling from two different threads. So here’s what I found.

Rozbuska.5263:

if you use FT as main source of dps you are bad engi:-)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Camping-flamethrower-feels-wrong/first#post4438863

ellesee.8297:

It’s a thilly thing to call someone a bad Engi for running what they enjoy playing in a game mode where you can literally run the worst build and still succeed!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Camping-flamethrower-feels-wrong/first#post4438863

Darius.4710:

If you like your reputation you might want to actually tell the truth. The truth is that you tagged min-maxers as nerds, and more. Here’s the proof (can we see yours?):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Camping-flamethrower-feels-wrong/first#post4438863

Then your “proof” goes on to quote veewee in the page where the very first response is that FT is useless in pve.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Burn-baby-burn-flamethrower/first#post4428482

So, now my facts are straight and your are still extremely disingenuous. Same shame shame.

Darius.4710:

Dustfinger.9510:

Darius.4710:

Actually it’s your sensitivity that blinds you, and not the other way around. I specifically said I wasn’t supporting such claims. Now, follow 2 steps to help yourself: Read carefully, and stop defending Vee Wee at all cost.

I’ve read and dissected it for you. So……… yeah. No one said you were supporting such claims. That’s the strawman I mentioned earlier. I guess your still stuck on step #1?

Until you get your facts straight you’re still the one stuck at step #1. Check this out:

Dustfinger.9510:

edit: According to what you quoted, Veewee never says that saying a said build is bad for a said purpose is elitism. Veewee says saying a said build is bad…… is elitism. And there are elitists who simply disreguard any build that isn’t min/max as bad. Notice, veewee said "" We have some PvE elitists saying…" That doesn’t equate to all min/maxers.

Gotta love gut feelings. Something told me to check again.

Saying a build is bad has nothing to do with the player playing them. Elitism is about someone who thinks he’s better than someone else, many times due to value differences. You can be the best player but you’ll be playing a bad build in the open world soloing, or in a team that allows all kinds of builds. So, no, saying a build is bad doesn’t imply the player is bad too. This isn’t elitism. That said, calling them elitists is both out of line and false. This is intolerant and rude.

Nice attempt at sleight of hand. You are still trying to equate saying a build is bad at a specific purpose with saying a build is bad.

It’s not about saying a build is useless. It’s not about saying a player is bad for using a bad build. Get your facts straight. You seem so intent on not doing it…

The words that you quoted Veewee saying are " We have some PvE elitists saying a certain build is bad"

Nothing there has anything to do with a player saying a build is bad at a specific purpose. The only thing that even comes close is a player other than Veewee saying the build is useless for pve.

Darius.4710:

Actually it’s your sensitivity that blinds you, and not the other way around. I specifically said I wasn’t supporting such claims. Now, follow 2 steps to help yourself: Read carefully, and stop defending Vee Wee at all cost.

I’ve read and dissected it for you. So……… yeah. No one said you were supporting such claims. That’s the strawman I mentioned earlier. I guess your still stuck on step #1?

edit: I notice you ignore the possibility that Veewee was specifically addressing that attitude that it is just plain useless in pve..

Darius.4710:

If you want to have any success, you need to follow two steps: Read carefully, and stop trying to defend Vee Wee at all cost.

The term elitist was directly related to builds, not the player playing them. Get your facts straight. Here it is again, just for you:

Darius.4710:

" We have some PvE elitists saying a certain build is bad"

Saying a build is bad could be true and it doesn’t make one an elitist. Elitism has to do with being better than someone else. Saying a build is bad for a said purpose isn’t elitism.

“And then they back it up with talk of spreadsheets and dps calculators and etc! If that’s not a min max nerdo then Vee Wee doesn’t know what is! That is also where the true intolerance is!”

Proving which build is better is min-max nerdo? really? Especially when people often ask for proof? Please note how the tag (nerdo) is linked to the min-maxing attitude. Yes, again. Then Vee Wee claims this is what’s intolerant… good lord…

Your sensitivity blinds you to the fact that there was a conversation going on before you got there. Here’s a snippet of the very first response:

Rozbuska.5263:

Still useless in PvE

Saying a build is useless simply because it’s not min/max is ridiculous.

edit: According to what you quoted, Veewee never says that saying a said build is bad for a said purpose is elitism. Veewee says saying a said build is bad…… is elitism. And there are elitists who simply disreguard any build that isn’t min/max as bad. Notice, veewee said "" We have some PvE elitists saying…" That doesn’t equate to all min/maxers.

Darius.4710:

The nerd mode, when connected directly to the min-maxing attitude, and as part of the above context, has everything to do with intolerance and rudeness.

The above context was connected directly to the idea that they are “bad engi’s” for not being min/maxers. And the terms “elitists” and “nerds” was directly related to that attitude behind that “bad engi’s” comment. If we’re going to take things in context let’s take it all in context.

None of that abolishes the fact that you equated “nerd mode” to “nerd”.

edit: And it all comes back to the shot of calling someone who isn’t a min/maxer a bad engi simply for using FT.

Darius.4710:

Tagging a behavior isn’t nearly the same as tagging the person. Tagging the person implies this person is doing it on a regular basis. If you can’t tell the difference, well, then it’s your comprehension that’s at fault. Your comprehension has no bearing on facts. The facts will stay just as they are, regardless of what Dustfinger makes of them.

You said the term ‘nerd mode’ was equal to tagging people as nerds. Nerd mode is a behavior. But…….. you equate it to tagging the person. I guess the facts change with darius’ point.

edit: Tagging a murderer who only murdered one person as a murderer doesn’t imply they regularly murder people. If you can’t grasp that concept, well, then it’s your comprehension that’s at fault. Your comprehension has no bearing on facts.

Darius.4710:

If English isn’t your first language I can see where your misinterpretation came from. Saying a certain behavior is elitist isn’t nearly the same as saying someone’s an elitist.

Darius.4710:

Tagging people as “nerds” (“nerd mode”)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Burn-baby-burn-flamethrower/first#post4428482

Hmmm…

When your little girl was naughty and you told her what she did is bad it isn’t nearly the same as telling her she’s a bad girl. It’s that simple, whether you like it or not.. That said, I’m not guilty of name calling, even if you’d like me to be.

“Tagging people as “nerds” (“nerd mode”)"

Have I been supporting the one saying an Engineer is automatically bad because of his spec, no matter what? Actually, in my last post I said I didn’t. I proved Vee Wee was calling min-maxers names for value differences. This is intolerant, rude and elitist (do you want more proof?). This is a fact until you prove otherwise.

The next time you say someone is being disingenuous, you might want to get your facts straight…

You don’t need to be the one to say it. That’s a strawman. What you did is call a teacher a bully for saying that people who bully others are bullies. And then go on to say that because they don’t stand idle while bullying happens that they are intolerant and rude. Those are the facts. It’s disingenuous and pretty ridiculous.

Ehh, if “elitist” is name calling then you’re guilty of it too by saying it is elitist behavior. But it seems to me that Veewee wasn’t simply calling somebody names just because they disagreed. Calling people ‘bad engi’ simply for not being a min/maxer in pve is an attack. it’s the type of an attack an elitist might use. Coming to someone’s defense in a situation like that is more noble than what you describe. Describing it as ‘calling somebody names simply because they don’t share the same values’ is as disingenuous as describing death row as murder simply because the violent offenders don’t share the same values as the rest of society. It’s intentionally misleading.

Veewee is the reason I volunteer at the homeless shelter. Veewee helps me be a better person.

Obsidian.1328:

It’s fun to come up with possible reasons for all of that, it really is. But that’s not why ANet presented the races that way.

Each race nominally follows popular fantasy parallels in order to appeal to the differing preferences of the player base. Norn=viking drunkard, Asuran=gnome mad scientist, Charr=steampunk cat, Sylvari= wood elf, Human=generic medieval human.

ANet didn’t write the stories of the Tyrian races with a logical extrapolation of GW1 Tyria in mind. They wrote the stories of the Tyrian races with a simple marketing ploy in mind, then crammed them into the Tyrian narrative.

While we can absolutely identify arch-types from an out of game perspective (And we can point to multiple arch-types for the races. e.g.: norn aren’t just drunk Vikings, they are fantasy giants), it doesn’t mean that there isn’t lore behind those design decisions. Case in point, A-net has confirmed that the engineer class comes from the charr and has spread to all the other playable races due to their witnessing the effectiveness of it in combat. Pointing out the design decisions doesn’t mean much because all decisions are ultimately design decisions. So it’s applicable to every aspect of the game.

All that stealth abuse. Imagine if all classes were just out using the abilities available to them, willy-nilly. It would be chaos!

Veewee, walker of the path and knower of the secret ways. Gatekeeper of the outside journey to the inner sanctum of frandliness. ……Waaaahooooooo! Yea again…….. waaahoooo.

I’d guess the amount of help the tree can offer by lowering it’s branches is highly dependent on how high up the “fruit” is growing from. There need not be any contradiction for both to be true. Especially when we start to think about the practical mechanics of what is described.

Of course, if we need the sylvari’s description to be figurative, we have to answer what possibilities it could be describing. How is all pods gently being lowered to the ground like falling from a great distance all the way down to a hard ground?

Rata Sums foremost:
philoseeker
ontologist
metaphysical eruditionist

loneknight.8425:

For me, the pirate sylvari are not neccessary evil. Depending on their motivation – some may join to satisfy their wanderlust, some may join just because they find high seas adventuring ‘romantic’ (I blame One Piece); some may be inspired by the pirates at Lion’s Arch, etc, they could have adopted the concept of ‘the ends justify the means’ for killing folks out of neceessity. I think the motivations are very similar to those of ‘good’ sylvari, therefore there shouldn’t be much conflict when their experiences are added to the dream.

This. Sylvari pirates need not be any more evil than the heroes of Cobiah Mariner’s merry band of scally wags and rapscallions who founded Lion’s arch. They killed. They plundered. And they stole. All without necessarily being ‘evil’ because there wasn’t a lot of clear ‘good guys’ to do it to. A lot of times there is just ‘us and them’.

edit: “Don’t underestimate them. They learn strength from ivy. And viciousness from blackberry bushes” Norn NPC in the Grove

Canach seems to be a perfect example of how a sylvari can still be a Dreamer and have a destructive side.

Merendel.7128:

Personaly I think we need a new mascot. While I frequently agree with many of the points she makes when I manage to fully read through one of her posts and filter out the inane prattle, acomplishing said feat is another mater. I find the “Personality” she injects into every post painful enough that I can not have sharp objects near my computer out of fear I may gouge out my eyes to escape it. The intro is at best self centered and the “Accent” is obnoxious. It was cute the first time but at this point I kinda wish there was a way add to a forum ignore list.

So while you may think she’s the most intresting read on the forums I think she’s the most painful read on the forums.

Good advice for anybody is to “Be the change you want to see.”

Caithe, Edge of destiny

I’d say the pirates are regular ol’ sylvari like most others. They just interpret to the tablet in a way that isn’t goodie two shoes. Keep in mind the sylvari are inspired by the Seelie Court. While they were the “good” fairies, they could also be tempestuous, destructive and unpredictable. So the sylvari pirates may have simply become pirates because they thought it was interesting. The same way Caithe chose to randomly help a human and a charr over the ogres she chose to kill. Because she found them interesting.

Veewee, Goddess of Life Eternal, Daughter of the Lesser Moon, Mother of the Nearer Moon, and the Goddess of Death. Wahoo!

gartz.7013:

Dustfinger.9510:

Veewee speaks fluent French, in Russian.

does she stay thirst, my frand?

Veewee stay thirst my frand, because, “Thirst is everything. Wahoo!”

Veewee speaks fluent French, in Russian.

Any Khan needs to be able to exercise the strength to maintain their dominance despite continual challenges of authority. otherwise they just get added to the long list of would-be Khan-Urs.

Now Smodur may be able to do that, or he may not be able to. It would all depend on the specific details surrounding the circumstances and none of that has been written.

Veewee is left-handed ……………and right-handed.

Veewee takes veewee’s salad dressing right on the salad, ………..so there is no going back.

VeeWee once parallel parked a train.

Vee Wee is the rainbow in my skittles.

oxtred.7658:

Vee Wee is everyone’s frand, that’s all.

This. Vee Wee has love to share.

bethekey.8314:

ITT: Engineers who require elite to win 1v1s.

Others being those who require the engineer to handicap themselves in order to win 1v1s.

Lostwingman.5034:

I would say it is less that it “falls to the priory” and more that the priory is just the most pervasive and well known organization that does so.

Agreed, from a lore perspective.

I was just talking from an out of game perspective where the creators would make decisions that determine the lore and in their decisions, it fell to the priory to be the face of that niche rather than any class.

arthurobenzi.2619:

I’m sorry if my sentence wasn’t very clear, by fight I don’t mean the situation, but how it is done.

She manipulated the situation to be able to play to her strength by using the bench as a shield against their weapons. remember, their intent was to kill, not to get into a pushing match.

“Occasionally, a warband (or a Norn hunter) might cross the line into the other’s land, only to be cut down without prejudice”
This don’t mean than a Norn Hunter=a warband , but than the norn travels alone and the charr in warband. But in the example of MotW, it’s about charr who attack the norn ( and by extension the norns villages).

The warbands that get cut down were after the charr invaded. it was when either wandered into the territory. So it had nothing to do with the charr attacking villages. It has only to do with crossing into the others territory.

Further, you can’t erase the teeth and claws from the charr capacities :
-“the mouth filled with prominent sharp teeth suited for their carnivorous diet”
- “The charr have a set of sharp claws which can be used as knives for general tasks but it appears the charr tend to favour weapons when fighting.”
This is an advantage, in any case. The kind of advantage who can be use to end a fight.

I’m not erasing the teeth and claws, I’m saying that norn also have access to them. It’s like two people having a knife. No one has the advantage because both have access to one.

As stated, everyone is born with magic ability so in tyria, wizards don’t have the monopoly on secret knowledge. Everyone has something to bring to the table. And the secrets of each class are generally guarded.

The job of discovering ancient arcane knowledge doesn’t fall to any one class like in other fantasy universes, it falls to the priory.

nihasa.5067:

I don’t want you to get me wrong. Engineers are quite potent in everything they do, but other classes can do it better. But you don’t play 1000+ hours a class because it is the best. You play it because it is fun and engineers are fun! Extremely fun. So fun that I could not play seriously any other class after I started my engineer in early access.

This. I tend toward the class with options. (Feral Drood/Engineer/Squig herder). Everything else ends up feeling like an incomplete class.

Miffinator.3046:

We should define good as what is required to be top-end in this game. Unfortunately Engineers aren’t on that list. This is a systemic problem the class has had since launch. Look even go back a year ago to a thread about worst class and Engis clock in near or at the bottom of the list.

Versatility doesn’t mean you have the upper-hand. I’d rather be really good at something and be really good than be mediocre at many things. That’s why this class is a fail. It doesn’t have a direction. It feels slapped together and just doesn’t flow.

personally, I prefer it. I don’t want to be locked into any one purpose. I prefer my options.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Engi can solo roam tho, You just have to change it up and run a really defensive type of build, But it can work, you can reset for days just like thieves too, so its pretty easy to get away if it isnt going your way.

This. Engi is so versatile it can be built for many different purposes. Every build has it’s individual strengths and weaknesses.

Kurrilino.2706:

So you guys tell me it’s cool……..

Zaithan…. turns people into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

2nd Dragon…. living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

3rd Dragon…. turns living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

4th Dragon…. turns living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

5th Dragon…. turns living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

jeeezzz…. and i was wondering how A-Net can pull stuff like this without people going on riot.
You guys are so easy to entertain.

Coming from the guy that wants the lore that any preschooler could come up with, that’s pretty ironic.

However, you’re mistaken about the lore. The dragons each have their own flavor of creating minions. The devs have confirmed a bit of overlap but the specialty isn’t all the same.

fire dragon: creates minions without needing living beings.

plant dragon: Sylvari are still up in the air since we don’t know their origin but the majority of confirmed minions of Mordy don’t seem to be living being that get turned into plant monsters. created like fire dragons. And the vines are part of the actual dragon. So his reach is unlike anything we’ve seen before.

death dragon: creates minions out of corpses.

ice dragon: creates fewer strong minions while the sons of svanir simply leach off his corruption and are beneath jormags notice.

desert dragon: creatures infected by corrupted splinters become minions.

bubbles: no one knows

Unless you have access to more lore than has been released, and the devs are planning a big retcon, your summary is flawed.

If we define ‘good’ as ‘easiest learning curve’ then engineer isn’t good. if we define it as versatile and effective then it is definitely good even with the moderately higher learning curve. people tend to choose the easiest classes but I wouldn’t call them the best classes because I just can’t get into them.

adormtil.1605:

Do the Centaurs win or lose the war against the humans?

The devs have stated that the war goes back and forth with kryta. In the living story, the last element is dealing a big blow against the centaurs. Some have interpreted this to say the centaurs are losing while others say it is merely one point in the back and forth. Also, there are centaur diplomats visiting with krytans so the war may end without needing a clear loser.

arthurobenzi.2619:

" three charr pushing" , she actually prove she was stronger but it wasn’t really a fight, just a “who can push the harder”.

they were trying to kill her and she subdued all three with nothing but a bench and raw strength. It wasn’t just a pushing contest because they were trying to kill her. The same way they were trying to kill the rest of the council. If anyone else from any other race had done it, it would have been considered evidence of their fighting prowess.

For MotW ,
“warbands and smaller raiding parties could not overcome the individual strength of the Norn”
it’s sound more like if the organisation of the warband is not sufficient to overcome the strenght of the norn whith their disorganized army/society. The sentence is too ambiguous to make only one transcription. With this, we go back to my previous conclusion, because this thread is not about who is stronger ( the norn) but “Who would win in a fight a Charr or Norn”. This would be a tough battle,for example :

In the Ghosts of Ascalon there is Gullik Oddsson, who is getting beaten up by a female Charr Ember Doomforge quite badly.

The problem with this topic is that there is no lore-stated about. All is about theorycrafting and puzzle.

Lone norn are against compared against warbands later on. “Occasionally, a warband (or a Norn hunter) might cross the line into the other’s land, only to be cut down without prejudice”

Norn aren’t organized. So any warband that would get cut down would be by whatever wandering norn happens upon them.

We have quite a bit of lore confirmed. Norn are known for solo fighting. They train since childhood for heroics and they have super strength. they are a race of super heroes. Charr train since childhood to work in groups. They don’t have the strength of the norn and we know of no inherent advantage that they have over the norn. Not even teeth and claws.

We have the same type of lore concerning solo humans against solo charr but for obvious reasons, there is no question about which would tend to win. Even though we have incidents of humans winning.

Kurrilino.2706:

Dustfinger.9510:

Kurrilino.2706:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

sad that gw2 have such an awesome lore couldnt find away to tell it better ingame.

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Maybe because the lore isn’t that great ???
Having a Dragon that turns living beings into minions isn’t the greatest
invention ever. This followed by the the next threat being a Dragon that turns living beings into minions is just aweful.
Of course having the heros always not working together and find a way to make them working together like the last dragon isn’t helping either.

Sometimes i wonder they have just 1 story writer and he is just changing the names of the dragons and hopes none of the 12 year old fanboys will notice.

We…… already knew that there were multiple dragons. They were all categorized as “elder dragons” and we knew we would have had to deal with all of them at some point in time since they are cataclysmic forces.

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every pre-school child would have given the Dragons different skills or mindsets.
having 5489 Dragons and all of them are absolutely same, except the color, is really not appealing to me. Or anyone i know.
There is no problem with dealing with them but for god sakes make a different story for each of them.

How comes we had dragons in GW1 and still had great storys without dragons going on ???

Elder Dragons are forces of nature with unfathomable mindsets. It’s more in depth than just a bunch of dragons with different personalities like any preschooler would dream up. Just a bunch of regular dragons with different powers is a little too Saturday morning cartoon for me. I’d rather not have the type of lore that any preschooler would dream up.

Every class isn’t for everybody. I know I’ve tried certain classes multiple times that I just can’t get into.