Guild Wars 2

Oh, the clones have some sort of multiplier on power that takes them close to 0 damage. Probably (power+weapon) * 0.001 (1 attack per thousand of yours).

Don’t know what the Vit scaling is for phantasms, but it’s different than clones. I think it’s less since the clone change (clone used to be 0.2, IIRC). Also, iDefender may have a different scale.

The ? means I don’t know.

Edit:

Also, phantasms carry the Mesmer’s power. This doesn’t mean they necessarily do as much damage as the Mesmer. Remember that power scales different attacks differently. Duh, your autoattacks do less than your other attacks. Phantasm attacks have their own scaling. Also, there’s evidence that phantasms actually use their own, separate, weapon damage (not your weapon damage).

So, they will do more damage the more power you have. That doesn’t mean they do the same damage lulz. But, most of them do pretty good damage, so.

The Signet (+50%) is horrible. Not only does it take about 5 seconds to apply to the phantasm after the phantasm spawns, it uses a utility slot for that purpose alone.

The other (+20%) is a trait. Tbh, +20% is not much, rofl.

If the Mesmer in question gets both of those, then they are balls-deep phantasm army, and they have jack kitten for utility or survivability past that (compared to other Mesmer builds).

Precision = precision.
Power = power.
Condition damage = condition damage.
Toughness = toughness?

Vit = vit*x.

IIRC, x was 0.3 for clones, not sure.

Sure, I can dodge the bullets from the phantasm, but it isn’t stopping the conditions from ripping me to shreds or the confusion on me making my casting

A Mesmer with strong phantasms does not have significantly strong confusion. At best, they can get a decent stack on you once in awhile. Wtb condition removal.

Also, you’re still not farting in the general direction of the phantasms (you are an Elementalist with AOEs HUR HUR) and erasing them. Instead, you’re trying to make excuses by tanking the phantasm damage of a phantasm spec.

There is a learning curve. For Hundred Blades, the learning curve is Bull’s Rush and how to deal with it.

For Mesmers, the learning curve is phantasms. They are ridiculously easy to kill with any attention. If you cannot kill them with low alternative costs (e.g. automatic/semi-passive/easily spammable AOEs while moving), you should re-think your playstyle or accept the fact that your build is weak to a Mesmer phantasm build.

When a Mesmer summons an iDuelist on me, I dodge the volley and throw a 5 second cooldown multi-target bouncing attack at the iDuelist. The phantasm dies. My attack bounces for additional damage, usually wiping most clones or doing damage to the Mesmer.

Easy.

Unlike Ranger or Necro pets, Mesmer phantasms are not durable. Therefore, you treat them differently. Get used to it.

I just wish the iWarden were more consistent in its behavior, whether it moves between attacks or not.

Mesmers have a lot of options >.>.

Figure out 2 mechanics about the class that you like, and then build around those.

E.g. “Greatsword and Shatters”. Or “GS and phantasms”. Or something “Glamours and Phantasms”.

You’re over-rating the Mesmer’s damage output capabilities, and assuming your team is incompetent at adapting to the Mesmer’s capabilities.

You also overrate Moa, which is kind of funny.

You mention Hundred Blades. HB is a good case study.

1. Legions of noobs get rolled by HB.
2. The average player eventually learns to counter HB.
3. HB is no longer “overpowered”.

Mesmer phantasm army isn’t as counterable as HB. It’s also not as potent as HB.

One of these days, players will figure out how to AOE and dodge phantasms (your Pistol reference is particularly hilarious, since the iDuelist attack is streaming, and with the blatant sound effect the game basically screams at you: “DODGE NOW”).

Mesmers have a potent combination of offense and defense, and may or may not be overpowered, but your case here is severely flawed and mostly whine.

Umm … use iBerserker. Now let this thread die to reduce the chance of that getting nerfed. .

Also … Feedback.

With the low crit rate and condition damage, OH Sword is at least “as good” if not superior (iS will do more DPS regardless; the difference being the block/daze versus stun).

Stealth also gives you a free time to cast a heal uninhibited. You can also begin casting any offensive ability while stealthed. So typically heal+cast while stealthed.

Well, from a raw effect / cooldown perspective, Mantras are better than many abilities. For example you could compare the cooldown of Signet of Domination to Mantra of Distraction, or the cooldown of Ether Feast to Mantra of Recovery.

In all cases, the Mantra power per cooldown is superior to similar abilities. The catch is, of course, the charge time.

That is a very squatty + tanky “soak damage while they get hit by phantasms” build.

From what I can tell you’ll do jack kitten for damage when they kill the phantasms though.

I think the part where the charges can be expended while CC’d or doing other things, instantly and with no projectile / delay, is the ‘counter’ part =P.

My Mesmer is a human because of roleplay / character concept reasons. As a bonus, the Order of Whispers armor is pretty kitten, and Reaper of Grenth is pretty fun, too. PBAOE chill + poison pulses for 15s = kitten.

They’re based on the player’s stats. IIRC HP is a scaled as a percentage, they get power/precision/cdmg directly. Not sure about toughness.

Although I facepalm when I consider Naruto and Deceptive Evasion.

Then again, I sit there and refer to the build as “Infinite Clone Works”, so who am I to criticize? Sigh.

Do they have much range?

Yes. 1200 max. About half of Mesmer weapons function at this range.

What is there main role when attacking/def keeps?

Killing siege, harassing wall people, throwing up Feedback bubbles (note: Guardians throw up the reflect wall too).

Do mesmer do much damage from range?

Yeah for the most part. Mesmer burst sequences are generally short-range, but general full-range DPS is pretty good. Mesmers do not have many general range AOEs though.

I started a mesmer but only around lvl 6 so far and I really dont want to make another class where in wpvp I cant participate much from range (other than buffing the team which gives 0 rewards).

Hmm … guardians do a lot more than that, but if you’re not happy with yours then /shrug.

Rofl.

This thread.

So good I laugh long time.

Btw, I think my iSwordsman should use Omnislash, and iMage should use Ultima. This would improve Mesmer balance. Also, Clones should copy my stealth, so when I stealth, my Clones stealth. I should then be able to re-absorb the Clones, replenishing my health and absorbing their knowledge and experience, extending my stealth further. Also, change Mass Invis to a new Elite which summons 50 clones. Call it “Kage Bunshin no Juutsu”. That way Shatters will be balanced, too.

The faction armor full set is in the neighborhood of 9g IIRC. Small pieces were like 1.5g, big pieces were 2.5 or something?

At least that was the price for Order of Whispers light armor.

Well, to be completely honest, whenever I think of “anime” in the same paragraph as “Mesmer”, I inevitably get flashbacks of Papillon from Busou Renkin:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/leobaloy/papillon.png
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs34/f/2008/309/e/4/Busou_Renkin___Papillon_by_adoroloble.png
http://otakuness.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/cosplay-costumes-yf323-koushaku-chouno-papillon-from-busou-renkin.jpg

Hmm …

Mhm. Which is why I said it would simply be a lot less effort to equip a soldier (whatever is high power / no precision) amulet and just throw a few phantasms against the golem, then swap to 0 power and repeat. The bleed formula can be included with simple math for SI.

Then you wouldn’t need to worry about stuff like what weapons the phantasms are using.

Mesmer does not seem as good at burning down single mobs as some other professions I’ve played. (Using my build – sword/focus and staff, using precision/cond damage and sharper image.) For a lot of people coming from other professions, they will seem weak.

You’re using a damage over time / not a burst damage build.

True, although Elasticity makes the Staff1 > Sword1 for damage, and you still have [limited] boon removal with GS3.

GS at 900 range (because scepters range is 900): 100 for the first hit, 200 for the second and 300 for the third totaling 600 damage for one auto attack (GS hits 3 times as fast as scepter hits one time).

You mean 100 for the first hit, 100 for the second (accumulating to 200 and displaying 200), and 100 for the third (accumulating to 300 and displaying 300), for a total of 300 for one autoattack.

Comments on Mantras as-is:

1. They are currently very viable as isolated utilities. E.g. “my build needs some condition removal, I will use MoResolve”. Or, “I want more spike damage, I will use MoPain”, etc. These are actually good choices — just have to remember to charge them between fights, and stop yourself from pressing the button again during fights after you’ve burned them (unless you intend to charge them, ofc). Or, even better: “I want to lock this sumkitten down with Distraction Diversion Distraction SignetofStun Sword4 LOL CHAIN CC GG”.

2. Stability one is rather weak, in general. Sodamnshort. I think it needs another second or two duration.

3. The only build where you want to pack “lots of Mantras” is the 30 Dueling max DPS build. Due to the raw # of Mantras you pack (presumably 3-4), 30 Dom becomes very potent, although 20 Illusion for Elasticity on GS is also effective, but has less utility.

4. Mantras are viable with synergies in other areas. Specifically Restorative Mantras with the heal Mantra or Mantra of Pain.

The key here is to not try to take “all the Mantra traits” or “all the Mantras” unless you really really intend to.

Edit: And 4s is definitely too long, heh.

Edit2: I guess the real problem is that other utilities like Blink, Decoy, or Feedback are SO GOOD, that it becomes hard to justify 3+ Mantras in many cases. And without that many Mantras backing them, the “biggest” traits like HM and EM become “meh”.

GS/Staff is a great combo for PvE leveling, due to its AOE and anti-melee capabilities (and the majority of your PvE opponents will be melee). Against range you pack Feedback and maybe Mimic or Mirror, and you’re good to go.

For an endgame PvP build (or PvE build), you will want to get specific if you plan on keeping with GS+Staff: mainly you will probably want to build Rampagers + Sharper Images, with a small dose of Carrion gear to provide a little raw pow/cdmg and Vit.

Edit: This basically means 0/15/0/0/5 for a skeleton build, and due to the weapon sets, Elasticity is pretty potent, so 0/15/0/0/20. Beyond that, you have lots of build options.

Just because this is a different game doesn’t mean that Mesmer has to be the only class that was without a doubt completely gutted into something that doesn’t resemble the previous iteration in the slightest minus skill names.

I look at it as the Mesmer being re-envisioned with new and entertaining gameplay mechanics. Do you really want to play the exact same class you’ve already played?

Well Mesmers were kitten (<- BAMF version of ‘kitten’), so that’s valid. But I don’t hold it against GW2’s Mesmer class. I think it’s just as entertaining.

The Mesmer has issues that need to be dealt with, yes. However when you basically claim the entire thing is broken and everything needs to be nerfed, it doesn’t get anyone anywhere.

Checks thread title. Checks the first post I added.

Oh yeah, humor’s a lost art.

To be completely honest, I’m more concerned about Mesmers getting nerfed by ANet than any buffs or absurd redesigns people are suggesting on this forum.

Getting the full formula is a longer effort.

In the meantime you can essentially answer the question by testing the raw damage of the phatasms using a Rabid Amulet or Knight Amulet and using math from there. It’s just algebra.

We can go on forever.

I know: ignorance and arrogance have no limits.

You compared oranges to apples.

I compared fruits to fruits.

Like I said: stop posting until you can understand the model in question. When you do so, then you can criticize it.

They are no longer A master of illusion, misdirection, and control, the Mesmer subverts the damage-dealing capabilities of others, manipulating their perceptions to achieve personal goals. (Guild Wars 1 Wiki)

This is Guild Wars 2.

I enjoyed the Mesmer class in GW1 as much as anyone, but it’s a different game.

Given that it displaces you vertically in the game world, it’s pretty misleading to claim it has no z-axis, when you really mean it won’t let you fly over terrain where there is no valid x-y path.

I’m on Jade Quarry and mostly solo. Guilded with some ex-DAOC folks casually.

I think some of DDOW is on JQ (seen Bus and Atzu and a few others, but not recently — wonder if they xferred due to queues). scratches chin

Sup circuit! What server you on?

As far as gear, no. Some does some doesn’t, stats are all mixed. Gear with vit AND tough are pretty tanky sets. Gear does not cover all combinations of stats though (malice/vit/precision is notorious), and some combos are not easily acquirable in PvE exotics (rabid: malice/precision/toughness).

This is a useful gear guide that has some of the stat combo info: http://www.guildwars2junkies.com/2012/08/23/guide-weapon-and-armor-stats-explained/

2/3s of the way down is an explanation of the different stat combos.

And its more complicated than only this.

Not really. I compared a full double cycle of both methods.

If you don’t comprehend the reason why the second is 15 seconds, just stop posting. You’re just making yourself look [edit]less able to comprehend basic modeling and making me look like more of an kitten by responding to you.

Yeah, Badlands. Wassup.

Also: unless you have a specific strategy for Toughness, Vit is generally more useful.

Toughness is good when:

- You want to counter direct damage, and
- You have some form of heal synergy / advanced healing, and
- You already counter condition damage “ok”

Edit:

That is to say you may wish to swap 1-2 item slots at a time from “Berserker” (POW/prec/critdmg) to “Valkyrie” (POW/critdmg/vit) until you find the balance you want.

Edit2: I think the PvE version of “Knight” was POW/prec/vit if I recall correctly. Also an option.

The last time I died farming stuff was when I was fighting a veteran frenzy abomination that was cripple immune, immob immune, daze/knockback/knockdown/stun immune, and then I ran into respawning risen necro veterans along with a spark, ember, and 2 more patrolling risen.

And I was using a full Mantra build with 4 Mantras and no Blink/Decoy so I couldn’t book it.

A good gaurdian, heavy boon, defense specced will outlast a mesmer.

This is not true. My 1v1 condition shatter build can take out a bunker guardian. Too much boon stripping, too many clones, too much stealth. And it’s not a spec “built” to kill guardians — it’s just a 1v1 spec. And hell, I can’t even play the spec properly yet.

A haste spamming thief who knows what he’s doing will burst down a mesmer

Never. Blink almost completely negates Thief haste openers, nevermind Distortion. It’s still a high risk of course, but haste Thieves always are.

Ctrl+T and you can keep a mesmer in sight for the entire fight

Basically, this is 100% incorrect.

A dodge rolling mesmer is a clear give-away.

Mesmer should time dodges and non-dodge events. E.g. no need to dodge until the opponent can already identify the real Mesmer. This is an l2p issue.

high vit, heavy boon characters like guardians, or condition immune necro’s, or heavy boon, condition immune engineers will be a stalemate for condition heavy mesmers.

Only for Sharper Image stackers. Confusion is highly spammable and relatively short duration. Also, Mesmers are not exclusive condition -OR- power.

I do agree with mesmers being hard to lock down, but for a class that has no burst combo’s outside of phantasm’s I see this as a none issue.

Mesmers have sufficient burst if you spec for it — and phantasm specs are NOT it.

Sidenote: Into the Void only pulls 5 IIRC. It is the pull that has the longest reach, although it does not pull the furthest distance.

You compare the damage of
- 2 minor units of time to cast = 2 actions (2x phantasm)
vs
- 5 actions (cast phantasm 2x, recast, swap, recast – i dont count the shatter).
Sorry, this puts your logic against yourself.

Swap takes 0 time, and the recast delay for the next attack is incorporated into the model. As I said you could factor in the opportunity cost for a generic AA for that ~2 seconds, but it would barely make a difference.

=> No, you cant.
6s phantasm damage
2500| 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
= 416 dps
7s phantasm damage
2500| 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2500
= 714 dps
Now I used your 7th grade logic and it does not work. It is not that simple.

Lololol.

Kid, sit down and apply your brain to understand the reason why I included 5 seconds of trailing zeroes on the second model, which I have already explained thrice. I mean, it’s not like I actually sat there and included that extra time that you complained about to address that exact factor. Rolleyes.

Sidenote: I got to use “thrice”. Thanks!

3) I dont say you are wrong, because I dont know.

Fortunately, I’m a little smart, so I actually do know. Cool huh?

1. I just, this past weekend, spent 24 hours farming kitten wool, cotton, and linen on my level 80 in level 25-65 zones. The direct loot drops are about half and half low level / my level. The bag drops are 100% low level.

If you think you’re getting all “your level” drops in low level zones, you’re on crack.

2. If you’re actually going to spend any significant amount of time gathering low level mats from nodes, BUY A LOWER TIER GATHERING TOOL. JFC.

It’s mainly the greets where you can hear the same greets for 76 other players.

Maybe in internal cooldown client-side for the same greet more than once per minute, or simply cutting “non-me” greets.

If you’re running solo, you need to have personal durability. Particularly in WvW where you have a high chance of additional aggro (other enemy players or NPCs). Glass cannoning is for when you can exploit other tactical factors like:

- Having a keep at your back to hide in.
- Dodging around your group/team/zerg.

If you’re soloing and your target is not terrible, it is inevitable that you will take some damage, and you just have a high risk of random bad things happening to you. An extra chunk of Vitality helps tremendously for these events.

Moa’s OP 1v1. Time Warp’s OP for group fights. Portal’s OP for Treb repairs in sPvP. Portal’s OP for WvW everything. Curtain’s OP for WvW. iBerserker’s OP for WvW. Clone x Stealth is OP for everything. Troll downed state OP. Phantasm damage is OP for PvP. Bleed damage OP. Infinite Clone Works OP. Bonus invulns with BF and Distortion are OP. Blink is OP. Infinite regen + prot + Phantasm damage is OP. Feedback is OP.

Mesmer OP. Represent.

Dancing Mad.

You would think that “Crazy Insane” would be a red flag.

^

Thanks for your detailed testing.

Totally agree Shatters need a faster cooldown. Wish I could Mind Wrack every 6-8 seconds instead of 10.

That would be pretty kitten!

My take on Scepter —

Bad things about Scepter

- The stutter/teleport effect on the block is bad. It’s jarring to the player, doesn’t provide much value, and is actually dangerous in PvP when moving.

- Cooldown trait reportedly does not work with Scepter2. Probably because it’s a multi-part ability and that seems to be a common theme.

Things I don’t like

- The confuse beam takes a bit too long to wind up. Makes the weapon feel annoying.

- Sound effect on the 1 attack is annoying. Literally “plink plink”.

- Scepter 1 clone messes up my illusion timing. I like to maximize my shatters and clone replacements. Scepter1 basically throws a wrench into my timing. It’s not imbalanced per se, but it is annoying for me and my playstyle.

For these reasons, I don’t use Scepter.

Really! That’s interesting.. I’ve never heard of that. Is that true with players too? They don’t always land confusion if they shoot through an ethereal field?

The tooltips actually state: COMBO FINISHER: PROJECTILE (20% chance)

The important part is the “20% chance”.

Generally, multi-part, flurry, and autoattack spam projectiles get the 20% chance adjustment.

Other projectile abilities that have cooldowns and are single projectiles get a full 100% chance.

The Pistol trait should be fixed.

I don’t think people realize that shatter-commanded illusions will stop in place and shatter when their target dies, or goes to the ‘last known position’ when the target stealths, etc.

Not surprised.

Conditions
Confusion
It is very hard to use the Confusion condition viably compared to other conditions (such as Bleed), mostly because of the low duration of most of the Confusion Skills – but the backlash from Confusion isn’t really that impressive either (for the effort it takes to build and apply Confusion).
Solution: Make Confusion either more impactful (higher backlash) or longer duration (easier to stack).

Might want to tweak this to note that:
- This is primarily a PvE concern at core
- It would also be helpful to do a QA check that the 33% confusion duration trait and other condition duration sources (Dom and runes) are affecting all sources of confusion appropriately (Cry of Frustration, trait for Confuse on Shatter, trait for Confuse on illusion death, etc)

So I’d like to know if I’m the only one who gets the following impressions when playing Mesmer solo in PvE, compared to my play experience with other professions.
- downing groups of normal mobs takes significantly longer
- instant, direct damage-dealing at the beginning of combat is significantly lower

I don’t get this feeling because I actually use a burst / direct damage build using GS, Elasticity, and IP. When I was hardcore farming centaurs, I even brought along Mirror Image. Could burn through 3-packs in abour 4 seconds.

Soft normal mobs (Skelks) I can murder in a single 3-hit combo using half condition damage gear (that’s right, condition damage gear in a power spec, because Order of Whispers gear is kitten and I don’t have the resources for a Berserker set yet :P). Good god when I get real power gear I will faceroll those in 2 attacks.

Most people can’t get it through their heads that their phantasm army builds are sustained afk damage. And then they wonder why it takes them time to ramp up their DPS.

- in general, it takes a lot of specializing / picking certain weapons (sword, pistol, staff for me) and specific rotations / skill combinations in order to down mobs at a speed somewhat comparable to other professions who can pick any weapon and just faceroll

Incorrect: other professions have to specialize for fast direct damage as well. Do Warriors do a lot of fast direct damage with Sword/Warhorn? With Longbow? With a Shout tank build? Mace/Shield?

No, they use Axe/GS and drop 50 points into their direct damage traits.

Is Sharper Images a burst damage trait? No. Then why do people keep using it if they want fast damage?

- the one good thing I can think of: singular tough opponents can be survived almost indefinitely (until someone with way higher DPS comes along to finish the job for us, which would otherwise take ages)

Clearly, if you’re surviving indefinitely against a singular tough opponent, you don’t have a max DPS build (or you’re not using the build in a max DPS manner).