Guild Wars 2

But iDuelist does 15,000 damage man, nothing can compare!

Yeah it’s pretty tedious in many ways; best way to work around it at the moment is to drop a chaos storm on it to get it an Aegis buff, or throw down some blinds or a knockback.

Oh yes, let’s start wasting utility slots because we can’t manage our existing abilities to use what’s free on F1-F4.

I like the Order of Whispers set. Pretty ninja. More like an Arabian Knight style though.

That’s exactly what i was saying! No one would shatter with 3 Phantasms up because it doesn’t synergise!

No, no one would only resummon 1 phantasm.

Shattering with 3 is fine if you resummon 2, but this requires you to actually be mentally aware of your existing phantasms finishing their attacks, and be aware of the cooldown on your two phantasm abilities.

Helberus.4320:

-5 pts into inspiration gives your phantasms 20% more health.

That’s a 10 point trait. 5 pointer is retaliation off the top of my head.

Having 3 phantasms out, destroying them all and summon 1 phantasm will reduce your damage out put a lot.

Which is why no one does it by intention.

Duh?

If you’re fighting tougher mobs, your phantasms will die in 1-2 hits, so you will not get 3 up in any case. Lulz.

Hmm, my biggest issues with AT working have been the range (900, when I try to use it at 901 range), and enemy block (Aegis)/evade.

The first option is much easier.

The second option is better if you time your Mind Wrack appropriately.

The true answer depends on your spec. If you are spec’d with 6 phantasm traits, then maintaining high phantasm uptime is more important. If you are spec’d with 6 shatter traits, then maintaining rapid shatter cycles is more important.

However, with good timing you will never shatter immediately after summoning a phantasm in general.

You don’t have 3 phantasms up in fights that matter.

And, it would have been more efficient to shatter when you had 2 phantasms up with the re-summons off cooldown.

Also, time your weapon swaps.

If Phantasms weren’t meant to be a source of consistent damage would they deal higher damage than clones? No, they wouldn’t. Re-summoning them on a short cool down means you’re still using them as consistent damage.

Perhaps we should clarify whether we are talking about consistent (reliable) damage or consistent (sustained) damage.

Of course they are reliable damage, but they are only notable for sustained damage if you spec for Phantasmal Fury and Phantasmal Haste.

They are there to be a main damage source for mesmers, there is a reason they have a different name, look different and have different effects. Destroying them along with things that are made to be disposable (clones) makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense because phantasms are also disposable. They are simple something you have to time, whereas clones demand less precision with timing.

Ranger pet’s are permanent, Phantasms aren’t – you know that. Patronising me doesn’t support your argument.

I’m not patronizing you — you are the one treating your phantasms as if they were permanent, and you are valuing them as a permanent function.

Shattering a big source of your damage to daze a mob as it’s about to use a big ability in the middle of a long fight makes no sense because you’re basically resetting your damage output.

Except you can resummon the phantasms again immediately because the cooldown on most of them is pretty low. So you “reset” your damage output for all of ~1.5 seconds. Oh no! Given that default phantasm attack cooldowns are 6 seconds, and that fresh phantasms attack immediately, you’re not losing any phantasm damage output at all. In fact, you’re gaining output. In addition to the shatter.

Oh my.

The problem is not treating phantasms as a significant damage source.

The problem is treating phantasms as individual permanent damage bots, as if they were pets.

This should only be the case for phantasm army builds that try to maintain 3 phantasms. Which, of course, is silly for most relevant gameplay, but people seem attached to the notion.

See, for example, you get this guy:

Because really, when I have a warden denying and reflecting all damage of a champion while doing really good damage, while my 2 warlocks are spiking the enemy like crazy, why would I ever shatter all 3 of them for a daze that doesn’t stack?

Who:

1. Thinks that a champ won’t annihilate his iWarden, even though champs are almost universally coded with multiple attack types beyond range projectiles, nevermind slinging a shot at the iWarden between flurries. He extends this assumption by fabricating a scenario where his damage actually matters, yet somehow he has 3 DPS phantasms up (you can get 3 up without issue when it’s 40 people vs. champion, but in those situations, you can autoattack and get gold contribution, so who cares?).

2. Does not understand that he can re-summon the Warlock and Warden within 1.5s of the Shatter, refreshing 2 of 3 phantasms (why did he even wait to get 3 up in the first place?), and immediately triggering an additional attack. This accelerates his total phantasm damage for that segment such that it’s as if he has 3 phantasms, instead of only re-summoning 2.

3. Does not realize that the Daze will be staggered since the iWarden is presumably in melee or close to melee, whereas the iWarlocks are presumably at range (or at least one of them).

4. Optionally, he could be trying to solo a champion using a triple phantasm build. This is funny.

Are you sure phantasms are supposed to be a source of consistent damage?

You can re-summon them on short cooldowns (most of them), and they die easily, or can be destroyed for additional effects.

Perhaps you think they are pets like rangers?

I find phantasms and shatters to work just fine together if you can time your abilities.

Perhaps it’s your build and/or playstyle that doesn’t synergize.

GS is viable in PvP if you play hit-and-run.

The mobility is extreme.

Aure.7435:

Aimeryan.1247:

Link seems a fake with that dot in the middle of youtube. I’m not risking it.

youtu.be is just an url shortener for youtube.com, this domain can be safely trusted in the future.

.be is actually a top-level domain for Belgium.

I always thought it stupid because the youtube URLs are not that long in the first place and the longest part, the code for the file itself, remains the same.

You’re trying to overpower the iWarden. The iWarden’s:

1. AOE
2. Much higher total damage
3. Defensive capabilities

Are balanced by the iWarden’s lack of movement. If he moves, he will be nerfed.

So relax and figure out other ways to work around his movement limitations.

In relation to TP, it absolutely can result in pulling people towards the Warden but it’s highly inaccurate.

You are incorrect. Into the Void is very, very consistent on how it moves the enemy. You need to learn it, practice it. I can throw enemies into the iWarden very reliably assuming I don’t kitten up and pull during their dodge or they get an Aegis, etc.

The purple bubbles in the lower left show your clone count.

Not sure if trolling.

-Phantasmal Berserker AoE cripple and deals 3k dmg every 6 seconds (20% phantasm attack speed)

It’s every 6s without that trait, so faster with.

The clone exists immediately but fades in slowly. This is working as intended, even though it can be slightly annoying if you are using visual checking to see if you have a clone for shatter use.

By working as intended, I mean the fade-in is a part of the engine, not an “MMO client-server model” characteristic.

Edit: It’s actually advantageous in PvP, because instant pops of clones tends to draw attention. If the clone fades in, players notice it as “less odd” and are more willing to believe the clone is the real player when it appears, as if the Mesmer popped out of stealth.

GS/Staff has always been better than Sword+Focus for PvE.

… ?

Also, just so you know, gold contribution is extremely, extremely easy to get and requires almost zero effort.

What most people complain about is tagging all the mobs for loot. For that, you want GS and Illusory Persona.

Edit: Most people are using phantasm army builds with Staff and Sword/Pistol, which is a rather poor combination for tagging mobs. Most bad players are unwilling to hold other weapon types in their inventory slots, and swap them out as needed. So, you get these threads.

Mesmers still take more effort to tag all mobs than an Engi or Elementalist, but it’s on par with most of the classes.

iLeap is fine in design tbh. Needs the range on the first part (clone spawn+leap+cripple) to be extended to 900. The swap can still by 600 imo.

Bad players are bad, good players are good.

End of discussion.

L2p broseph.

Dungeons are meant for slightly more serious PvE players.

with 50 people you wouldn’t be able to get a shatter off due to your target already being dead, stop bullkitten and leave your dreamworld where you think mesmers are perfect since every class has its flaws

My Shatters begin instantly because I have Illusory Persona.

Good game son.

The problem is that the shatter mechanic only works if you dive wholeheartedly into it, otherwise it’s deadweight or even a self-defeating system.

This is incorrect. The general usage of the Shatters change depending on your build. In the most anti-Shatter build, e.g. a phantasm army build, you still want to use Shatters for Diversion and Distortion to stop/avoid key attacks or to get off a stomp for example. You’ll just avoid using Mind Wrack or Cry of Frustration unless the target is dying.

Like seriously, who gives a kitten if your phantasms are alive when you need to evade the knockback to finish a stomp? Priorities people.

If Mesmers got any better, we’d have constant nerfs.

Mesmers are already a top tier 1v1 class, top tier WvW class, and can basically fill almost any role in the game.

Greatsword overpowered. Expect nerfs.

Noktrin.8051:

3) Into the void: supposed to pull enemies into your temporal curtain, it just throws enemies all over the place most of the time.

Into the Void may work slightly differently than the tooltip sounds, but it does work very consistently in terms of where it places the enemy.

4) Phantasmal Haste: is this even working? I think it only affects warden.

Pretty sure it works, although it’s most blatantly obvious on the iWarden because that phantasm has the longest attack animation, which means that the “downtime” shrinkage from the trait is very noticeable.

5) Warden’s feedback: i’ve never seen my warden reflect a single attack

It definitely works.

6) Masterful reflection: does not work with blurred frenzy

Pretty sure this is working as intended, although the tooltip is misleading. I think the trait is “supposed to” refer to the Skill Called Distortion (e.g. only F4), not the Distortion Effect (e.g. also includes Blurred Frenzy and the trait for Signets).

Edit: At least, that is the rationalization of players after they discover that the trait sucks kitten because it doesn’t make Blurred Frenzy cooler than it already is.

So yeah it would be nice if they changed this …

There should be a Mesmer trainer on the map with a book icon on their head. There is one in the starting town where you exit the intro tutorial, there is one in every main city, one at every borderlands/EB spawn point, and one in Lion’s Arch I think. There may be others.

For the first few levels (e.g. your level), Scepter is probably the easiest, since it generates more clones than the other weapons.

After you get to level 7, you can swap between two sets of weapons. Most weapons are fine for PvE for all builds — and you should practice all of them. The only weapon that is somewhat specific is Torch. You probably want to avoid Torch until you get more experience.

Generally, Greatsword and Staff are the easiest weapons for PvE because they have the widest array of AOE / multi-target abilities.

For early levels, get the 5 point trait in Illusion, followed by the 10 point trait in Domination for +15% illusion damage.

After that, anything goes. Generally power builds are more effective in PvE until a minimum level ~40 when you can pick up Sharper Images.

Why is our class mechanic so unfriendly to a popular build right now!?

The real question is why a particular build is popular if it is generally (but not technically) unfriendly to the class mechanic?

Answer: The build is easy to execute, easy to grasp for casual players, and offers generally effective gameplay. The class mechanic requires timing and resource management; the average player gravitates to the phantasm build and away from using shatters.

Later on they get good and realize that both are effective, but /shrug.

I mean, the long and short of the tangent earlier in this thread is that using shatters at the correct time is almost a pure DPS add. Poor timing will cause players to lose phantasm uptime and generally be bad, but ohwell?

Traits that exist seem to encourage the play of fielding as many phantasms as for as long as possible. This flies in the face of what shatter wants to treat out clones and phantasms as; disposable minion bombs.

This is incorrect: there are only 2 traits that directly support sustained phantasms. These are the 20% phantasm health and recharge cooldown on phantasm attacks. The other phantasm traits are more or less similarly effective for sustained phantasms or normal phantasm use.

Even if you count all traits that directly affect phantasms, I’m pretty sure they do not outnumber the traits that directly affect shatters. Off the top of my head:

- Illusion damage
- Phantasm damage
- Retaliation Phantasm
- Fury Phantasm
- Regen Phantasm
- Phantasm hp
- Sharper Images is close enough to count mostly because of iD

There are an additional ~5 traits that affect all illusions (movespeed, damage, damage reduction per illusion count, proc on illusion death). These do not synergize with phantasms in particular.

For Shatters:

- Mind Wrack 20% damage
- Mind Wrack 10% crit
- Retal on F2
- Confusion on shatter
- Vuln on Shatter
- Vigor on Shatter
- Heal on Shatter
- Illusory Persona
- AOE Diversion
- Reflect on Distortion (eh probably wouldn’t count this trait, lulz)
- I consider vuln on daze as “close enough to count”
- Might on Shatter
- Boon strip on Shatter
- Recharge Shatters at 50% hp
- Condition removal on Shatter

The above lists illustrate that most players simply ignore Shatters because they are weaned on phantasm whoring.

3: We NEED a way to make shatters more reliable. Minion bombs is not always a viable delivery system.

Illusory Persona. QED.

Also, Illusions are pretty reliable for delivering Shatters from what I’ve seen. The only thing that gets tricky is Diversion timing.

First, no.

Second, wouldn’t mind, OOC only, but reject if nerfs included.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Do you go to school or do you pack your lunch? Your points have nothing do to with mine.

My points clarify the degree of relevance of your points to the Mesmer class.

1 – there is 0 cost in marking a mesmer
2 – the benefit for having marked a mesmer is very high
3 – the cost for a mesmer to remove a mark on live is substantial

1. An erroneous target mark has a severe cost.
2. The benefit of having any player marked is very high. It is only marginally higher for Mesmer targets.
3. Mesmers can actually remove a mark at all. Bonus for Mesmers.

All Mesmers should read the guide above before posting.

Particularly if the post involves crying about something.

Uh.

It does more than that. The tooltip basically only describes half of what Mimic does.

The limit of 3 at a time makes sense to prevent abuse, but the fact that they are target dependent is very frustrating. If I am in a fight with more than 2 monsters, I’ll kill one, and then all my illusions that were attacking it vanish, leaving me totally undefended.

Solution A: Use the Clone summoning capability on separate mobs.

Solution B: Finish the first mob with a Mind Wrack, using good positioning to hit the second mob with the AOEs.

Solution C: Whine on forums.

Dodge/reflect the phantasm. Throw a random attack at the paper phantasm to kill it while focusing the Mesmer.

Zzz.

Mimic does more than copy a single ranged attack.

Everyone in this thread that cites Mimic had better actually use the skill a bit before commenting and not merely look at the tooltip.

I could, while leveling, solo 4 level+7 mobs simultaneously.

I could kill an even level mob in 5 seconds.

Mesmers are insanely survivable while maintaining a DPS or even glass cannon stat spread or build.

Don’t know what else you can expect for PvE. An “IWIN” or “NUKE-ALL EMAIN” button?

Major part?

Lol. Fix your build/playstyle.

This thread is inane.

First, the general structure of the highest burst damage build pretty obvious:

- 20/30/0/0/30
- GS // Sword/Sword
- 24`53372F1F3F274

Second, Staff is a rather poor choice for maximizing burst. There’s really no discussing this.

Not a big deal, but a silly bug nonetheless.

Pretty sure I can autoattack in a DE and get gold.

Blink first, stealth later!

Before people get confused, you may want to clarify that your problem is with tagging mobs for loot, not DE rewards for DEs.

Sidenote: The only classes that are really good for DEs are engineers, since their turrets seem to autotarget and attack mobs that are not drawn on your screen.

I haven’t had any significant issues tagging mobs as long as I can see most of them, which tends to be the problem with people farming DEs. Eles seem to do well due to the persistence of their AOEs that also do not require visible targets.

Encadi.1672:

Zin.6170:

It was already nerfed, no way is it hitting 100 times.

This answer is kinda silly?

His answer is kind of awesome.

I don’t find the marking a big issue.

The clone “deceptive” capability is like the 4th-tier value of clones.