Guild Wars 2

First!!!
Can i have you exotics?

Well, as i said, i rarely miss it, so…
I use:
1) Pistol/dagger, obvious cond build, dd is rarely used here, only for the eventual gap closing, this build has little power to boot from;
2) sword/dagger, i have more usage here, but mostly as finisher,rarely used, IS is a reliable gap closer (the best, actually), then i dazelock and auto, i wont waste my ini in dd spam and be left out of C&D to allow dazelock, so, as i said, its a finisher (very much like heartseeker, see?)
3) BS combo, dd is not required here, if im using it, i did something very wrong there…

And as battles go, they mostly are hectic, yes, too may mesmer pets and stuff.

Im pretty sure you guys missed the Anet post where they say the culling issue is gone? in the pvp section??

evilapprentice.6379:

Eduardo.4675:

evilapprentice.6379:

I see alot of people talking about the nerfs – is anyone else as disappointed and annoyed that we didn’t receive a single fix?

My list is above (Shadow shot, flanking strike, P/P in general, ranged attacks obstructed for no reason, adding venoms still suck, traps still suck, PW still roots and does sub par damage without quickness)

We’re still basically locked into Shbow and either D/D, P/D or S/D, because our other weapon sets have GLARING problems. Every single one of those specs use Dagger offhand, which now does terrible damage for non-glass cannons.

Fixing those bugs was the only bad thing is this patch, specially the channel>follow that thief bug.

I disagree. 50% damage nerf to Dancing Dagger is over the top – the skill still costs 4 initiative, and has a slow travel time (its rather easy to dodge). Increase the travel time and reduce the init to 3, and I’m fine with it.

CnD doing 33% less damage is just a terrible idea all around. It’s intention was obviously to nerf insta-gib builds, but does almost nothing to nerf them. 1 skill out of 3 doing 33% less damage just means you’ll probably need to hit HS once. Instead, every thief who didn’t want to run insta gib now has a 6 init ability that does 33% less damage.

I’m not claiming the game is ruined. I’ll still play. But Anet has set a disturbing trend – every single thief change (besides changing HS % thresholds) has been wildly off the mark. Nerfing PW to counter Quickness->PW builds? Nerfing CnD to counter Insta-gib builds? They’re nerfing every thief spec to counter extreme burst, rather than just toning down extreme burst. It’s stupid, poorly planned, and extremely worrying.

Edit:The icing on the cake is they just keep nerfing our small pool of working weaponsets, rather than fixing the issues with the broken/poorly designed ones so we can expand as a class.

I dont think u got the devs idea. It was a preemptive nerf, just to prevent future cries from meta shift. In case u dont know, dancing daggers has a brutaly fast activation time, its 1/4 secs + travel time, it hits the target usually within half a sec, and its not that easy to dodge, i rarely miss it, and u should also know that it has some kind of bug that more often than not makes the “ripple” hits(or bouncing) do more dmg than the first hit, wich sometimes resulted in brutally increasing the final dmg output,its like that similar bug with rifle warrior where piercing killshots gain power as they perfurate subsequent targets (u should read this as, its prone to exploiting, and we all know that there is no exploiters,right?). The dmg is insane when the enemies accumulate, and if they nerfed the BS combo, wich REQUIRES some few button presses, positioning,etc, the meta would eventually shift to a new form of heartseeker: dancing daggers spam. An Assassin (thief) is suposed to preform stunts like the backstab combo,it has allways been like this in other mmo’s, and im in favor of staying this way, however,one button kills is cheese… that cheese is the reason i dont play death blossom cond build,for me spaming 3 is cheese, specially in that infamous UNICORN build. The meta, if BS was nerfed, would now be either dancing spam,or daze lock spam. In the first, the QQ’ers would come here and say"nerfnerf, 1 hit kills", in the second, the permalock would bring “OMG, Anet, what did you have in mind when u allowed a thief to perma lock me into oblivion?”…
This is my take on this patch, the also powerful P/D setup was actually improved, but that setup takes a lot more time to kill and leaves the victim with a chance to survive and beat you, if he is skilled enough, unlike the very similar S/D setup, wich dazelocks…
Also, on cluster thingie, it was somewhat powerfull, allowed a thief to do a lot of dmg in a weapon set that has the #3 skill, wich is a evade backwards ohsheet button, followed by a shadow step skill on #5, ,without the half a second delay of having to swap weapon. Think of the new map, and a thief spaming cluster safely from above, already in a map that benefits their shortbow so much…
Look, im a thief, its my main, i only opened 2 slots yet,one for thief and one for mesmer, wich i opened to understand that class, so dont think im one of the whine crowd, i looove thieving like a boss!!

evilapprentice.6379:

I see alot of people talking about the nerfs – is anyone else as disappointed and annoyed that we didn’t receive a single fix?

My list is above (Shadow shot, flanking strike, P/P in general, ranged attacks obstructed for no reason, adding venoms still suck, traps still suck, PW still roots and does sub par damage without quickness)

We’re still basically locked into Shbow and either D/D, P/D or S/D, because our other weapon sets have GLARING problems. Every single one of those specs use Dagger offhand, which now does terrible damage for non-glass cannons.

Fixing those bugs was the only bad thing is this patch, specially the channel>follow that thief bug.

This was a good patch for thieves; it will stop the whiners, the BS combo suffered another small hit, but nothing that will invalidate it, now i wanna see ppl complain that they die in 2 milisseconds to this combo…ppl are suposed to be reactive and think about theyr survivability, all the BS whine was mostly due to slow/inept ppl that did not invest in tufness/defense and did not wanna fill theyr utility bar with a stun breaker/any active defense skill. Now they cannot complain. Adapt or die.
As for the sad thieves (AKA sad pandas), u too adapt or die, if DD wasnt nerfed, the meta would shift there, to a build that maximized usage of dancing daggers, wich would be another form of heartseeker cheese way, im against BS complaints, but im not oblivious to cheesy builds where ure required to press only one button, that on top of the outrageous dmg, also excused the thief to steer his toon towards the enemy, like HS did. Dancing daggers is the same,1 button and no need to even steer, its ranged and will hit ur foe while ure safely afar, and on top it cripples them, too. It was, as i said above, a preemptive nerf, a precaucionary measure to avoid future outcries. The only real nerf was on tactical strike build, and as i was expecting, they made the duration go to 2 secs, as i said above it would be, and they removed the odd sigil of paralyze bug. This build was already too powerful, only ppl didnt realized it yet, but anet (again, a standing ovation to mr Chaplan and peers) knew what was going on. They gave us some buffs, namely pistol bleed build, and they made body shot more atractive, they reworked some utilities, blinding powder is now very good, shadow trap will be one of the funniest skills in game, they fixed scorpion wire (im betting that the skill will work much better now that it has more range). As for cluster bomb,it was too powerful when properly used in www,ure a walking ballista if u have a power/crit build and go about spamming that in zergs,i can understand why they did it,and it was the only bow nerf, btw, no IA nerf, that would be much worse (think of this new pvp map, and all the vertical advantadges that ull still retain, and think how it would be a thief spamming cluster from above…)
This patch will separate the wheat from the chaff.
Adapt or die.
I never die.

Range on shadow trap seems like before, so now we have another good stealth skill, specially for www… as if the culling issue wasnt bad enough,lol.

SpaceCowboy.1398:

Eduardo.4675:

buff to P/D!!!

I don’t know if you are trolling or being serious while trying to be funny (I really don’t, sorry). How did P/D get buffed? CnD damage reduction? Dancing Dagger reduced by 50%?

Seems P/D got hit… what am I missing?

You are completely oblivious to the mechanics of both sneack attack and tactical strike: they both required a sort of “tempo” to maximize DPS, the tempo for sneack attack was 3 autos after the sneak, then pop C&D, now u need only 2, thus, dmg increased… and body shot applies 25 stacksof vuln in a matter of 3 secs tops,its team ability now.

Shadow trap: u set the trap, the foe triggers,but u dont shadow step imediatelly,instaed ull gain a " marked" target,and then,since the icon changes in ur bar,u can choseto shadowstep AND become invisebleor not at all… no moreunwanted guests!! I havent tested the range, but if ist almost map wide like before… YUMMY!!

Psikerlord.2569:

33% damage reduction on CnD… ahhh don’t know if that will change the current burst problem much? Dancing dagger wow 50% down. Mug dmg unchanged. Interesting blinding powder got 40s cooldown, now maybe it can compete with SR. I am surprised no real buff to pistols from what i can tell? Otherwise i suppose nothing too drastic here. CnD steal precast still possible. hmm. guess this is supposed to be quick 3s down on glass cannon game. I reserve judgment until playing 2nite and see how these changes interact with other class changes in PvP (looks like guard healing nerfed, not sure about water ele)

There was a buff to pistols, body shot is now quicker,and most important, the sneack attack before required 3 autos before reapllying C&D, now its only 2 and a very slight delay on C&D… BUUUUUUFFFF!!

Cufflink.3985:

The overall damage for a S/D stealth dancing thief isn’t down too much (+10% tact, -33% on CnD, #1 combo no change), and the daze time reduction was probably needed – you’re right in saying that people hadn’t figured this out yet or the whining would have been epic. The DD nerf is more of a buff for rangers than anything else, and now is more of a gap closer skill instead of a damage one.

Question I still have on tact strike – do Sigil of Paralyzation (15% stun duration) and Runes of the Mesmer (33% daze duration) stack? I’ve had a hard time figuring this out in the mists.

No, they dont stack; before this patch, both were giving tactical strike 3 secs duration,now i believe they will make daze last for 2 secs.

OH, and body shot is now quicker on activation and no “aftercast”, it follows up imediatelly with watever u wanna follow up with!!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Backstab has suffered a minor incoviniece, (LOLOLOL), dazelock build was nerfed (sneaky anet,1 step ahead of whiners,this was most powerful build,this and pistol/dagger, props to balance team!!), blinding powder is now AWSOME, weird trap reworked, slight nerf to cluster but nothing special, another preemptive nerf on dancing daggers (sneaky developers, again props to them!!),i dont know (yet) if leeching was buffed or nerfed, nice ranged buff on wire,and speacially, buff to P/D!!
LOL,we were buffed!! i knew it!!
Allow me to laugh more:MUAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!

im watching it now,and to add some, i cant log in now, i think the patch maybe up!!!

Dorregaray.7126:

Imagine bunker guardian with +toughness + vitality +healing power.
Or necromancer +power +toughness +condition damage.

Enough said.

What ure implying here would never happen, the state of stats in the first beta was very similar to what we have now, they were just a little different, and the customization referred by the OP was just the jewels wich could be picked separately instead of in a bundle.
Here is a spreadsheet i made before first beta weekend with info from press acess to a previous closed beta:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq3EsiG75NPNdGFfc25IcDE0R3haMnpXYmNTRWJ2c3c#gid=3

John Lucier.5486:

Eduardo.4675:

I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!

I stopped reading at the Death Blossom part, if you think it is overpowered and not underpowered, you never played DB condition. 3 stacks of bleeding for 5 init? Unfortunately, check. Evade that lasts less then 1/3 the animation, unfortunately, check. Every class having multiple ways to cleanse all stacks with 1 button, check.

Look at this note: “Note: This is not for discussion or argument about how OP/not OP certain elements of the thief are. This is simply your predictions and whether you welcome them or not.”
Im gonna respect the Op and not discuss this.
Good night.

Oh yeah, forgot those, they are so useless, (except maybe ambush for venom builds) we even forget we have those “utilities”…
Maybe ground targeting, round and enlargement, and not visible.

I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!

@Doomdesire
You do relize that ramatakhan is one of the guys attacking the oakhearts,right?
Lets AnalYze this video:
The first part consists of THREE GUYS (not 2) attacking a clueless zerg, consisted of 90% of ppl with green arrows, only a guardian and a warrior i see there as lvl 80, notice as the thief tabs through the zerg and all of them are green suckers; then, as the thieves tag the oakhearts, they go shadow refuge and the mobs drop target, turning on the zerg who in turn focus the poor tree ppl, take a look at all the roots going on, its now 3 guys and oak ppl against ze mighty german zerg;in the mean time, they have the full orb bonus,visible at the right side, just in case u didint realize. Oh, and they mindlessly attack the oakhearts, but i think this has been said already,right?
Then,there is a second part, where this 3 guys, now with orb bonus AND food bonus, proceed to obliterate more green arrow german zergons, with all of them busy playing against the doors… really a display of pure power, this video…

sorrow.2364:

Eduardo.4675:

That was just a joke, too, just a parody of the stupid first post where u insult EVERY thief in the game, where as the OP made a genuine joke WITHOUT singling out any one (its up to you if u consider urself a nub or not). See what i did there?

You didn’t read my post yet, right?
Or you probably read it without getting the sense.

Yes i did. U said: “what about if thief power matched their brain capacity, so that they become UNDERPOWERED?”
Than u proceeded to inform us later that “i play both necro and thief”…
Not really smart, is it? Hence, my joke…
But keep going, this pvp is far better than gw’s ingame pvp.

“Just make thieves increase power based on thieves players’ brain”
“I attend both Necromancer and Thief forum because I play them both”

So, Mr Sorrow, u like to be stupid, i gather?

Mavec.7469:

Daecollo.9578:

@Mavec
I’m sorry your math is incorrect.
15 points in Vitality is 15% Boon Duration.
2 seconds + 15% = 2.3 seconds of swiftness.

Extra % Stealth would make our “Regeneration in Stealth” Moves 100% better, that IS our Buffs.

Feel free to test it, the boon duration increases from 1sec remaining on application to 2sec remaining on application with 15 points into acrobatics (it counts zero as a full second on the countdown timer). Its along the same lines of 15% sigil of Paralyzation increasing our 2sec sword daze into a 3sec daze. It is an anomaly with their rounding not my math, I understand how percentages work. I don’t understand why these 15% increases result in a full second added the duration of these abilities.

You are wrong.
When u test something,its better to control the environment to the fullest,so has to not have discrepancies. The 15% extension on a 2 secs duration is dificult on the naked eye to gauge perfectly, and u definetely did not use a cronograph to get those results, so im gonna tell you how to do it, so u can see for urself.
Equip withdraw, and put those 15 in acro; then chose vigorous recovery to get more dodging; now, if ur theory is correct, if u chain 3 dodges together u should be getting 9 secs of swift. When u use withdraw, this skill is an instant cast skill followed by a dodge roll that last for roughly 1 second.You can observe that after using withdraw, the timer of the skill will start on 14 secs. This will be ur meter.
Now,use withdraw. After the roll, spam dodge button 3 times to get 9 secs of swiftness. Since the timer/meter starts at 14 secs, ur swiftness should end by the 5 secs mark on the meter (cooldown of withdraw), but in fact, it will end at the 7 secs mark…
Now, add to ur equipment rune of air, speed or centaur.If using rune of air or centaur,u must only get enough runes to get the 20% increase, dont use full set of centaur coz it will give u swiftness on heal,the same goes for air runes. Do the same test and watch as ur swftness increases almost to the 5 secs mark on timer.This is how u control an exp+eriment, more repetitiions to have a more plausible gauge on effects.
As for the sigil of paralyze, ur 100% correct.
By the way, vigorous renewal vigor is not affected by ur boon extension.

rickshaw.5279:

Asomal.6453:

(you can heal 2k+ whenever you go invi)

This… this right here is the problem with these forums. OVER exaggeration; Either that or a complete failure to pass elementary school arithmetic.

345/tick * 4 ticks = 1,380

Last I checked 1,380 != “2k+”

You and your kind are the reason these forums have lost their ****ing mind. You don’t cite accuracy you cite sensationalism which in turn feeds all the sheep and then we get a stampede of stupidity rampaging through. People pulling Screenshots from months ago being used as evidence of how thieves can backstab for 24k+. Others citing equally stupid damage but, “Oh sorry I don’t have screenshots.”

This stuff right here needs to be called out EVERY time we see it or it will NEVER end.

According to this post, misinformation is the mother of all whiners…
Lets get to another lecture, shall we?

Assuming that this build is indeed a pistol/dagger build (by the OP descrition it seems as the most plausible option), this is a condition build, wich suits perfectly the scenario given by the OP, and also suits a build around shadow arts and atrition combat (this is the build i most often play with, so trust me, im savvy). For this kind of build i advocate a full carrion set with 2+2+2 rune set, for extending condition duration in 50% with the help of a sigil of agony.

Assuming that this build only has shadow rejuvenation as heal, and no more compassion than the 300 required to get this trait, what we’re looking here is a heal of 323 HP per second,no more, no less; with this much compassion, ur heal skill (slot 6) will also increase in 300 HP from base if it is HIS or SOM, and 150 HP if it is withdraw(this one is what i use). In this case, C&D → 4 secs in stealth will net me 1292 HP 4110 HP whenever i use slot 6.
Now, assuming the perpetrator (read, the thief that owned this ranger) wants to maximize his healing while maintaining the equipment i described above, he could go for shadow protector and assassins reward to complement his HPS.
The formula for regeneration at lvl 80 is→ 130(compassion/8), the game usually rounds up (not if you have only 100 compassion,in this case ull get 142 hp per sec of regen), this makes it so that his regen is capped at 168 HP per sec; assassins reward acts weird, it should be 70 HP per initiative at base, (according to some old patch notes released by anet), but i found out that each skill has its own unique “reward”, with C&D being the one that gets the worst reward, in this case it will heal you for 398 HP, body shot, for example, its half the cost but heals for 239 HP (go figure…); what we have here now is 1292+398+1008=2698, a litle bit more than the 2K proposed.
This calculations stems from: 4 secs at 323+398 from C&D+6 secs of regen at 168 per sec (its 6 seconds because assassins rewad forces you into going 20 in acrobatics,extending the boon duration in 20%, thus 5 secs + 20% is 6secs).
I dont know the exact formula for assassins reward, judging from body shot it seems like is → initiative*(~70+(compassion/30)), at zero compassion ull heal for 208, at 100 ull get 219, at 200 is 229 and at 300 is 239… this seems relatively accurate for most skills, but cloak and dagger is denied one point of initiative.

Just for fun, lets imagine that this thief is a total wuss, and uses runes of the doliak and shaman amulet, the jewel can be something else without compassion:
He will have 869 compassion and 3243 armor;
The extra 1263 tufness will reduce incoming direct dmg in 38.95%, add to that the following heals when he stealths for 4 secs: 380*4 (shadow rejuv)+ 498 (assassins reward on C&D) + 239*6 (regen) + 30*n (doliak rune bonus, allways running, stacks with any regen,lets just use 4secs) >>>> 3572 HP…
Have fun fighting the wuss!!

Keiran.1896:

Yes, thief is cheated and yes, I am raging, because I simply can nothing against it.

As a ranger, I use a shortbow and traps to make a lot of damage. The problem with thief is STEALTH.

Here’s a classic fight against a thief:

I shot ‘em 3 times, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
I put traps, they walk inside, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
I shot ’em 3 times, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
I put traps, they walk inside, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
My health is low, I use my heal skill.
I shot ’em 3 times, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
I put traps, they walk inside, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
I shot ’em 3 times, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
I put traps, they walk inside, they stealth, they heal, they attack me.
My health is low, I fall.
Hopefully, I have a skill to interrupt the achieving skill – that will let me more time to lower his health – but, where the hell is he?
I’m achieved and dead – he was invisible!

And now he’s proud because he probably think he is skilled.

Stealth, Stealth, Stealth, I HATE TO RAGE THAT WAY, so please, fix this

You have just been owned by a pistol/dagger thief; he stealths with cloak and dagger, then leaves stealth with sneak attack; whenever he takes dmg, he staelths, waits 3.5 secs, (at this point the stealth icon has been blinking for half a second) and then activates cloak and dagger again, hitting you precisely at the poit where stealth just ends (there is a 0.2 secs interval between leaving stealth and hitting, wich is enough to beat the revealed debuff); in the meanwhile, shadow rejuvenation has healed him for 330 points every second, coz he has at least 300 points into compassion, wich totals 1320 HP, roughly (im assuming he has shadow rejuv+shadow embrace+infusion); after this, he proceeds to resume the cloak and dagger+sneak attack combo until he feels the need to heal again… why he was able to pull this off so easily? well, u stayed in place, without moving away, the whole time…
“and now he is proud because he thinks he is skilled”, no siree, you are the skilled one here!!

nope
•Message Body length must at least be 15.

Brando.1374:

Oldgrimm.8521:

oh so 2 sigils of paralyzation wont work then >.<

i also read that sigil of paralization also work on daze

i just want a build that will give the opponent no opennings for counter attack

3 secs daze ftw

3 second daze is awsome!
CnD + Daze strike (dont remember the attack name right now lol) takes about 3 auto attacks for the reveal debuff to go away and repeat. perma daze ftw

Its not perma daze; the full auto chain in sword set takes 2.4 secs to go off,that leaves enough time for a skill, attack.watever, to go off. I know coz i tested and cronometered (?) all thief skills for a thread in guru (wich was posted later here), and ive used this build plenty.

Both sigil of paralyze and mesmer works, however, they dont seem to work together; if u use the mesmer runes, u should be getting 2.66 secs of daze, but the game rounds up to 3 secs (why, dont ask me, its anet’s doing);if u only use one sigil of paralyze,ull still get the same 3 secs on daze, but coupling that with mesmer runes wont get u a forth sec of daze (you wish!!),also, it seems that 2 sigils of paralize is overdoing it…
So, take a pick: want a different rune set? get sigil…
Want a specific sigil that is not the paralyze? get runeset.

Kaleygh.1524:

I honestly hope that thieves and bunkers get nerfed into the ground. You guys had your fun with the obscene burst specs, the stealth in wvw, and other unintended or unfair advantages.
Why all the tears and the hate, OP, scared that you`re going to have to l2p now?
To be honest I dont know which ones cry more, the glass cannons that get burst down in 2 seconds or the equally bad thieves trying to defend their 1 button spam fotm spec.
Eduardo.4675 – “Do you know how your name reads when i see you in game? Farm.
Deal with it.” Nice to see all the 12year olds rolled thieves)

First-> i wish i was 12, again…
Second-> im eager to the patch,all will remain the same, you can trust me on that;
Third-> your name also spells farm to me… and after nerf will still continue to spell.

You speak as though we thieves are not also… backstabed by other thieves, or suffer from other invisible thiefs in www,or any unintended unfair advantadges,as you call it… like, its my fault, the rendering issue (wich, by the way, we never know if its in effect, the other guy may not be seeing me, but how do i know that?),or like its my fault that the formula for the theory of relativity is Dmg=P*W*SC/A (wich, incidentally,is the root of all evil)… go blame anet, dude, they made it this way,not me, and stop conjecturing about my age.

Edelweiss.9815:

You’re getting nerfed. Learn how to get over it.

And after the nerf im still gonna own you left,right and center. And after the nerf you will still be the nooblet you are presently. Do you know how your name reads when i see you in game? Farm.
Deal with it.

sorrow.2364:

Grimwolf.7163:

Correction; that Warrior was actually dealing significantly more than a Thief can.
And it was at 1500 range from on top of walls.
And it hit multiple targets…
I’m pretty sure in at least one part of that video, he 1-shot three separate people with a single shot.

Nope, he was dealing the same exact amount of damage a thief can deal on a regular armor, regular level character with the backstab combo (Assassin Signet + Steal + CnD + Backstab) on up-leveled people.
In sPvP/tPvP you won’t see any killshot dealing more than 13k damage, on the other hand, you can see many thieves dealing 18k+ damage with the backstab combo which takes less time compared to killshot to be executed.
The only downside about the thief combo is that it is “only” 900 range, it doesn’t pierce and ends with you into close range with the target (which I can’t consider as a downside, because puts you in condition to stomp him).

But don’t worry guys, once thieves gets fairly nerfed, you’ll find another unbalanced profession to abuse in order to get your easy wins, probably Warrior itself.

You and ur friend merciless have been completely biased towards thieves since begining of the game,and this post its the adamant proof of that… in another thread, i read u say that “from my experience, PW is a 3/4 secs (0.75 secs) channel skill, whereas Hblades is 3 secs and 1/4 channel”, and now this, im speechless… you lie while you smile, u should be ashamed of the gamer you infact are. I have one advice for you: disable the S key on your keyboard, ull see vast improvements in ur game play.
Nuff said on this topic, the “biasement” of people is pretty clear, its cristal clear.

You hurt me AND a million others… difference is, at that time this game was played by the true fans of gw (the ones who prepurchased), and the vastly majority of them werent these whiny kids of today; and backstab combo is a combo present in ALL mmo with a rogue, its their signature, in other games they even have a dash/teleport watever skill that teleports them DIRECTLY to theyr victims backs, this combo is ten thousand years old.
Knock urself out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaNRuqxqykM

This video is from the 7th of may, note the different endurance bar, to the right of the initiative bar. Team Paradigm guy, by the way, he published this build,if memorie serves me (but i may be wrong here), before the first beta weekend.

Just as a side note, the only rogue/assassin type that not had this backstab massive dmg thingie was… gw1.

Shizzlenit.7648:

I agree. Backstab is not the problem it’s the combo that Jinzu etablished which needs a rework.

And of course the rendering issue in WvW…

Dont talk crap. “Combo that jinzu established?” For ur info, i used this crap back when there was a trait in the trickery line that gave mug 25% more dmg… in the 27th of april, 1st beta weekend, me and a million others…

mr. Katsumoto
I just looged into the forum, after not posting here for quite a while (when i post i feel im throwing pearls at pigs), to say that uve just waited ur time. As you can see by the replyes, they dont even understand… most of the times they just dont watch the field,simple as that.Explaining (or,should i put it this way, teaching noobs), is worthless with this crowd…

Man, u are a bit paranoid,lol!
Now seriously, i dont think they do that, and plus,if anyone reports you for ur posts,well, thats lame lame lame, i cant even imagine what kind of people would do that, and if they do, screw them…

Hello anet!
I read the patches of 22/10/2012, and in there, its mentioned that the runes of the pack had a fix, however, those runes still have the same old bug that was there in the betas: the rune is suposed to give 165 power, however, they still are only giving 115 power, the 50 power from the third rune its still not being applied to us when we equip that set. Can i have a fix, plz? i would love to use those runes on builds where the soldier amulet is used, since it would grant us much needed vit+tufness, whilst providing us a source of precision to make up for the loss in crit chance and crit dmg.
Thanks for your understanding!!

Grimm,you wanna know how you really calculate the optimal mix (or sweet spot)? read this carefully, its much easier than that reddit thingie…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Skill-Coefficients-for-all-the-Thief-weapons/first#post467096

“I’ll take the 50% more damage on backstab compared to making that stupid combo do 75% more damage. At least with the 50% more Dmg on backstab if they screwed up they had to wait to try it again.”

People will never learn; they are lazy, they allways blame the other guy, they refuse to being proactive, and basically they are completely daft; and mostly, they are stupid, as in, down sindrome stupid.
If i make a post detailing the intrincacies and mechanics behind damage, damage reduction, and present the very basic maths behind it, ill get replies contesting the obvious, trying to get their own twisted view of the facts by presenting non facts, etc.
Ive got that in guru, despite very infrequent, but here, its out of control; peoples only desire seem to be just look good in a forum, instead of getting good at the game, and that is what’s behind unnecessary nerfs, then consequently buffs to previous state, watever, you guys know the drill.
Merciless is once again behind another QQ post, and whats worse, he has followers… watever.
OK, now that we have my rant out of the way (i do have the right to a rant, dont i?), lets see what anet has done to please the masses:
If i recall correctly, the complaint about the BS combo was that “one dies so quick we dont even have time to react”; putting aside the fact that you people dont bring stunbreaks, blocks, etc., and are mostly not paying attention (wich leads to you guys not see the thief coming), and, above all, are BACKPEDALLERS (also known as baddies), the truth is, most of you dont even have an ounce of understanding of the game, and that leads to comments like the one i have at the start of this post…
Saying that this change to the signet is a buff, is not understanding the goal of anet here, wich was to extend the duration of the BS combo, to give you guys some more time to react; it also did one thing: they did not nerf us thieves, the signet now works in a different manner, but is still viable, so anet pleased us all, wich is politically correct, if i may say so.
Why i say this? well, because its not a buff from 50% to 75%, in fact, the backstab combo was reduced in ~ 10% dmg, wich forces your opponent to use a couple more moves to finish you off… you guys now have more time to react now, so be happy…
Using the proposed combo, C&D->steal->BS, and assuming that cloak and steal hits for 4.5k and backstab hits for 9k, before the patch we had a total of 22.5k dmg when using the signet, now we have 5175+5175+10350, wich is 20700 dmg … this is a target that never invested in tufness, was never worried that such hits could occur, and therefore, he deserves to die; if this target decides to put some tufness in his armor, this will get even more deflected, resulting in getting to a point where th BS combo will not kill him instantly, leaving him some leeway to counter attack, and most of the times, kill the assailant.
What i loved more about this change, is that anet actually did what most QQ’rs wanted, nerf signet, but they didnt really nerfed the BS that much, you guys are still gonna die like flies to it, and more important, this signet can now be used to buff multihit skills, is much more atractive now in my eyes, i never really liked it before, you all should read this change as anet telling you: “dudes, less QQ, more tufness/blocks/stunbreaks/l2p”.

Oh, i forgot to say: this is what i do, well, the majority of it, i dont follow all those rules,but still….

Seren.6850:

First post, I came here to check if there was a new exploit out after coming across a thief today. I’m a level 80 warrior with full exotics, thieves generally beat me but it’s close, I can deal with that. Today I was with two guildies on their 80 exotic’d thieves.

We came across a thief could easily 1v5, I think he even 1v7 at one point and was downing people as well. The only time he wasnt stealthed he was spinning (unsure the name of ability).

I asked my thieves what was up with that, and they both said what he was doing was not something thieves can do. That cloak and dagger is meant to have a cool down.

It just seemed like an exploit and I’d hate to see legit thieves get nerfed over people doing this.

I looked at my combat logs, and he never it me for more than 2k a hit and there was no backstabs.

When u looked at ur combat log,did u happen to notice what skill he used for those 2K hits?? u say its not backstab, and i guess he was just fooling around with C&D…
You want a build that perma stealths with no culling? and that makes u almost invulnerable? Ill give you one rigth now, and plz show it to ur thief buddies (read baddies)
Build as follows:
get a good equipment, like with 19/20K health,it can be watever with some power in it, 2k from C&D its actually a low power build, so u can run with watever as long as u have those 20K HP and some extra tufness;
proceed to invest 30 points in shadow arts (u can make do with 20, i run 30 for shadow rejuv for “invulnerability”, heals for 350 points every second ur stealthed,and ure stealthed a lot, actually. ur perma stealthed), get infusion of shadow and shadow embrace, this will make u spend only 4 initiative in C&D and get u rid of conditions, adding to that invuln; with this, u just added to ur tufness and heal power,making u quite tanky, ull get 2 initiative every time u use a stealth ability, meaning no problems with intiative regen;
Invest 20 points in acrobatics, get descent in shadows,u take half damage from falling (a must have in www) and will give u 2 ini every time u fall,alongside with healing and condition removing, this makes u impossible to catch if you use falling to ur advantadge, i know that i do it a lot; get vig recovery and use withdrawal as healing skill, this gets u 75% uptime on vigor, coupled with feline grace and swift on dodge,more tankyness,almost perma dodge and 65/70% uptime on swiftness, making you able to dodge and move fast while in the shadow, and anytime u hit someone with cloak, dodge imediatelly, rendering those aoe’s useless,coz ur already far from the hit location;
use 15 in tricks, for preparedness, ull get a 15 ini pool,and while ur at it, get trill of crime, adding to ur swiftness, this way ull have 90% uptime on swiftness, this boon is granted when u steal, u dont need to hit to get it,unlike bountiful theft;
Usage:
hit target with C&D,and only C&D, ur stealth lasts 4 secs, and if u time it right, activating C&D a fraction of a sec before stealth wears off, ull get stealthed again, ull recover 2 initiative from infusion, and 4 secs of stealth gives u back 3 initiative, dumping down the cost of C&D to ONE INITIATIVE (plz tell this to ur useless thief buddies-baddies); use utility blinding powder(not needed, but still), to have an extra source of stealth that costs no ini, recovers 2 ini, and does not require a hit;
following this procedure, ull remove 2 conditions for every C&D, ull heal for ~1500 health for each C&D, and ure able to stay in stealth 4 secs for each point of initiative (wich is ONE minute, but since steal can give u 3 initiative and blinding powder gives another 2, ull also have perma initiative);
use terrain to ur advantadge, remenber that falling recovers even more initiative, cures even more conditions, makes u heal even more; get a stunbreakeror even 2, i like roll for initiative, breaks stun, immo, cripple,essential,and also more initiative;
If u feel that this kind of trolling the zerg is not satisfactory, bet full set of runes of speed, it makes u run 40% faster,instead of 33% faster from swiftness, and makes u perma swift.
Enjoy going upto the zerg and make a foll of those badie mesmers out there!!

@daays: if u only use C&D, u can almost perma stealth, in my P/D set, when im in trouble and need cond removal and/or heal, this is what i use, chain stealth using only C&D until im clean, after dat, resume normal play, C&D, sneak attack, revealed for 3 secs, rinse repeat… this is what a lot of thieves do in Tpvp when in trouble, they chain cloak until HIS is up and then proceed to obliterate you; bs cannons can also do this,but they lack infusion,wich makes them use it only for so long, in my build, however, im perma stealthed, oclusion culling bug or not. In www,with infusion, shadow rejuv, shadow embrace, vigorous recovery and descent into shadows, u can imagine how much i troll zergs… i specially like victors lodge, i have 3 sentrys close to each other there, i can get them in check and disrupt a lot of suplly on my own, no team mates required,they only get in the way…

Auron?? Auron?? u gotta be kidding me…not only he plays 8vs8 (wich is the epitomy of badness), he also clicks half of his bar (despite the fact that he actually every now and then uses the keybinds, wich only makes it look worse), he does something that is horrible, and that is CLICKING his heal skill (look at video and watch him position the pointer over the skill when he is panicking, pretty obvious), and also, despite his initiative is most of the times full, he never stealth stomps… this dude wont hold a candle in proper tourny play, and when we see guys like lowell or tempest, well, suffice it to say its ridiculous saying he is any good.

Have you guys tried a thief? when i cloak with cloak and dagger, i get the revealed imediatelly,if i wait until the last second, i leave stealth with the stealth skill,and the debuff wears at exactly that time, i use P/D and i chain C&D into stealth repeatedlyafter leaving the sealth, if i repress C&D, in the activation time the rest of the debuff is worn out, meaning i chain almost imediately; ive been using this in triple w and its….flawless.

I also enjoyed it a lot, shows the intire world is “proness”, and mostly, how attentive and the level of awareness he possesses: none.

I dont think ure seeing things, i havent let go of my thief and C&D its a lot harder to land now, and i get a lot of hits that dont trigger invis, too… i thought i was doing somrthing wrong, but now, with more ppl complaining…

@galandil: thanks a bunch mate!!
@ravnodaus: love ur footer note! Next time im defeated by a mesmer, im gonna say: U freaking piece of… utility!

Steal: no initiative; poison: no initiative; backstab: no initiative; C&D: 6 iiniative… if ur running 30/30/0/0/10, steal retrives 3 initiative that was spent in C&D,ull have 9 left, enough for 3 heartseekers, ur definitely dead…

Also, in 4 hits (does really poison application counts here?),if im unlucky and only get the proc on last hit (backstab),and if the chain does, for example, 5k dmg for CnD and steal, then 100 for poison and 10k for backstab, ull still get almost full burst, 10100+6666, total 16766, ure almost dead anyway…

What exactly is the formula to calculate the chance of the proc occurs on the 2nd hit, and then the 3rd hit? for the first hit, its logical to assume that is 25%, but what after that? in a worst case scenario (also know as bad luck), i get 0/0/0/1, the 0/0/1, then 0/1 and finally 1,wich gives me 25/33/50/100, but how do i calculate this exactly? help!!!

This game has he slowest movement speed ive ever seen, that happens to me in triple w as well, i use that signet, and still cant break distance with it, i need the shortbow… i move faster in gw1 when cripled than in this game without it…

Bomber, u havent understood a single bit of what i put in there… and thats a pity,makes me feel i wasted my time. When it comes to dmg, all 3 things combine to up ur final dmg output, and u can definetely compare them, its obvious,just read it and do the maths urself. And in most situations precision and prowess are entangled, ur “but we all go 30 in critcal strikes anyway” is lulzy coz those thieves also use the zerker set, wich combines exactly POWER, PRECISION AND PROWESS… its the sum of all 3 parts that makes that the most dpsing amulet set in the game, for every profession. And as for runes, the scholar set, the divinity set and the rune of the shreck are also the most used runes,precisely because they combine power/precision/prowess.
All this maths exposed here have been used by me for months now, since march/april, and i dont need any test dummies or steady weapons to know whats the best for maximizing dmg, this is all i need to know, the inner mechanics that affect dmg output, the Dmg=P*W*SC/A formula combined with a formula to obtain the “pondered average” between power crit and prowess… Ive taken the time to compare the different sets of runes with the dummies, as have many other ppl, and we all got the same result, best dps is scholar, followed by shreck, then mesmer runes, pack runes, divinity runes, etc. All this runes are the ones that rate higher, and that is because they combine at least power with one other dmg modifier, be it precision, prowess, direct dmg modifier (shreck runeset),watever.