Guild Wars 2

FxyO.8243:

Eduardo.4675:

My post is about liars, not philosophers; if you want to make a thread and present a case, be serious and truthful, dont lie about the facts. I dont care if its OP or not. Some stuff is OP in my opinion, btw. I dislike HS and perma stealth, its cheese. And BS should be toned down, too. But that doesnt make me post threads with made up facts, that may distort reality beyond the real measure of the problem. This kinda threads pop up every day, mostly put up by newcomers who dont fully grasp the game yet, see the ongoing thread about rallying, for example. And Davinci thread on that and other balance issues.

ill respond to this with a “?” I’ve been playing this game for around 3 months now, and this is the first time i have been globaled. clearly the stars aligned here to do this but the sheer possibility of it happening is unnaceptable… an do not compare me to people who say thieves are op and what nonsence… because theyre not.

i posted this thread to shed light on what is possible inside the game right now and how % values need to be toned down. or else this game will go completely downhill.

Interesting that you quote me in this. Did you know that Bruce Lee was a Major in Philosophy? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. He Majored Philosophy in the Washington University. He focused on the philosophical principles of martial arts. Not only coould he mop the floor with 12 ppl holding knives, he would then proceed to enlighten them in the misteries of the thinking processes behind Kant’s Pure Reason Critique. Or tell them why Nietzche loved Superman.
On topic: i know pretty well all the percentiles this game can produce. Ive been doing this kind of theo since closed beta. Hence why i dont see those numbers compute in a 2959 armor toon. And for you info, i also believe some stuff to be out of the line. My major gripe is heartseeker, its a almost free port skill to target that does almost BS dmg at 25% hp. And contrary to popular belief, it allways does more than auto dmg. I also dislike the ease of D/P stealth, because of its popularity, stealth is going down next patch. And along with it, Mug.

FxyO.8243:

Eduardo.4675:

Anyway, whats important these days is that Bruce Lee, when he was alive, could take on 12 people each holding knives, and mop the floor with them. Suck it up Chuck Norris. And lets not forget Tom Cruise and The Last Samurai. This is of dire importance.

please theorycraft more about nothing. this happened on my guardian, what is so hard to believe honestly? i dont spec deep down the toughness tree. and manipulating numbers? why would i intentionally manipulate numbers when i dont even think thieves are imba (which i already stated) and how cant you imagine aegis being procd off an auto attack? you are thinking seriously way too deep for nothing. post reported for actually attemping to call me a fraud when i came here for the good of the game.

So you actually had the nerve to quote me…and, hilariously, report me!! Ok, lets start with this post first:
→ Do never, and i mean NEVER, understimate the power of Bruce Lee. Some facts about him: did you know that he could take on 12 ppl each holding knives and mop the floor with them?? Did you know that he was a very good dancer? At 18 years of age, he won the 1958 Hong Kong Cha Cha Championship! I just burst into tears of laughter imagining Bruce Lee dancing the cha cha cha!!! With Shakira!! Ahahahah!! Oh God. So much fun.
→ " post reported for actually attemping to call me a fraud when i came here for the good of the game." That was not an attempt at calling you a fraud. It was just me debunking your post and your screenshot. After all, you are a guardian, a bunker, so what better to do to you than debunk you?? (im so good at making intended puns i scare myself. I can clearly see me hosting next year Golden Globes. Watch your back Ricky Gervais, you silly fat kitten !).
→ “why would i intentionally manipulate numbers”… I dont know, you tell me. All i know is that 19k hp and 2959 armor doesnt give way to 6630 heartseekers. And 8047 backstabs when health is above 50% (as it was when you were hit by backstab). And that number was plugged into that death report shot, they dont came with personal stats included. And plz tell me the build and equipment in tpvp where you get 2959 armor with a shield. Alongside 19k hp.
→ You said that Aegis (interesting that only after my post this was brought up, that goes to show how ppl dont even think when they post/critisize) obviously procced after the thief autoattacked you. In Graveyard, of all the available nodes in this game. Out of stealth. And all this without you even noticing the guy. So, he came to UR FACE, autoattacked you TWICE (because daggers first strike is actually a double hit) OUT of stealth (so he was visible, otherwise it would have been a backstab), then he cloaked and daggered you whilst stealing, got invisible again, backstabbed you, and finished you off with heartseeker… while you were basilisked and all this done on quickness… In graveyard, the node with a thousand mile radius where you can land a 747 boeing? And you did not see him coming? In all that gigantic airplane landing zone?
→ “please theorycraft more about nothing”… My theorycrafts are not done in a vacuum. The Cern in switzerland actually stopped all ongoing investigations on Mrs. Higgs Bosom just to read that post. Lots of quantic backstabbing is happening there. I do this in the interest of science. And the good of the game, of course. We are similar in that. That theorycrafting its actually based on facts, formulas known and that you can consult on the oficial wiki (there is a link to it at the top of this page).The figures i presented are taking in account the worst possible scenario for the victim, just so it can encompass any possibilities. However, when you said that the thief removed ur aegis with auto attacks, you have just made it so that assassins signet, if used before the thief came out of stealth, wasted all five attacks with the last one on backstab, leaving heartseeker without that 15% dmg boost… something that i did not include in my first post, where i exposed the numbers in the screenhsot. Quicksand.

Calae.1738:

Eduardo.4675:

^ i could swear i have a sniper gun in BF3… that requires me to hold breath and shoot the target in the head to kill him instantaneously. And in COD i also remember having guns that could kill instantaneously. Even a knife. I could kill people with one knive strike. Unless it was Bruce Lee, obviously. That dude could take on 12 of us holding our knives in COD and mop the floor with us.

You’re too young. I go farther back than that. Quakeworld, Quake 2, Quake 3 Arena.

I couldn’t come close to this level of skill and I was considered really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liobVa82TgI

I see oneshots EVERYWHERE in that vid… are you trying to prove my point? ure doing a great job… Im confuzzled… what is your goal And im far from young, trust me. That game is the direct opposite of an mmorpg. Which is where we are now.

Daecollo.9578:

Eduardo.4675:

OMG!! Another one of daecollo!! Its exactly the same domages HS does nowadays, but now we dont need to get target to <25%!! It only needs the target to be far far away!! LOLOL!! OMG!! All the domages are turned upside down from what we have now. Ahahahah!! If it was already easy to HS spam them to death, now its gonna be brilliant. And btw, your dancing dagger was given a 2.0 skill modifier below 50%, when HS now its the same but below 25%. Do you even consider what your doing , mathematically, when you think this through?? Enjoy this: target is far away, i HS to him dealing massive dmg, than i switch to DD and kill him with 2 more hits at the most. And lets not even consider spaming heartseeker to move across the map, now with double the reach… and initiative based. Me wants that in return for stealth nerf!! Seems only fair!!

We are suppost to get more mobility for the nerf to stealth inc soon.

It does less damage then autoattack if you “spam it.” you have to be far away for it to do damage, its more of a gap-closer now.

HS spam them to death, now its gonna be brilliant.
I’d Lol if they did, it wouldn’t do much damage at all if you spam it without running out of range.

Look: i se them far away, i leap, i get the equivalent to a regular HS below 25% hp; then, i move AWAY (1 dodge roll is 300 units, for example) and if the target runs AWAY from me, he will also help us; another max dmg HS; now target is panicking, he wants to run away as far as posssible, just stand there IMMOBILE doing nothing until distance is enough to another hearseker… Tooooo easy, much easier than what we have now. And dancing dagger, hiting like heartseeker at only 50% hp? and with a REBOUND? Its genocide, this skill alone… think rangers and their pets…

My post is about liars, not philosophers; if you want to make a thread and present a case, be serious and truthful, dont lie about the facts. I dont care if its OP or not. Some stuff is OP in my opinion, btw. I dislike HS and perma stealth, its cheese. And BS should be toned down, too. But that doesnt make me post threads with made up facts, that may distort reality beyond the real measure of the problem. This kinda threads pop up every day, mostly put up by newcomers who dont fully grasp the game yet, see the ongoing thread about rallying, for example. And Davinci thread on that and other balance issues.

OMG!! Another one of daecollo!! Its exactly the same domages HS does nowadays, but now we dont need to get target to <25%!! It only needs the target to be far far away!! LOLOL!! OMG!! All the domages are turned upside down from what we have now. Ahahahah!! If it was already easy to HS spam them to death, now its gonna be brilliant. And btw, your dancing dagger was given a 2.0 skill modifier below 50%, when HS now its the same but below 25%. Do you even consider what your doing , mathematically, when you think this through?? Enjoy this: target is far away, i HS to him dealing massive dmg, than i switch to DD and kill him with 2 more hits at the most. And lets not even consider spaming heartseeker to move across the map, now with double the reach… and initiative based. Me wants that in return for stealth nerf!! Seems only fair!!

^ i could swear i have a sniper gun in BF3… that requires me to hold breath and shoot the target in the head to kill him instantaneously. And in COD i also remember having guns that could kill instantaneously. Even a knife. I could kill people with one knive strike. Unless it was Bruce Lee, obviously. That dude could take on 12 of us holding our knives in COD and mop the floor with us.

Ok. Ive read this Thread. And i find this hard to believe. And its not the 3 tenths of a second reaction time the resident Clark Kents here claim to have. Its more the figures shown in that screenshot.
So, acording to the OP and other posts from the author in this thread, this guardian has 3k Armor (2959 as shown in the screenie), and 19k health points. Only possible if he is using Soldier amulet, btw. No other equipment combination can achieve this is spvp (im assuming its spvp, if not, the OP is invalid, as there is no “at the start of the match” in www). Also, according to the picture and the OP statement, this took place as the match started, and this thief, without any might and bloodlust stacks, hit ALL OF HIS COMBO ATTACKS without triggering AEGIS. Odd. Possible, but odd. Moving forward to the maths.
The OP states that the domages shown in the screenie are only possible due to the high scaling of % dmg increase given by stats/traits/runes/amulets/crit dmg. And that tufness does jack sheet. Well, i’ll show its not true. Ill adress the backstab and heartseeker numbers, as they are odd. They do not compute.
If we take a thief with all zerk equipment, scholar runes (those are the most dmging, due to 8% + crit dmg and 10% flat dmg increase), and give him a stat spread of 30/30/0/0/10, chose mug, venomous strength, dagger training, signets of power, executioner and flanking strikes, use basilisk and assassins signet as some of the utilities, we will get the following stats and % increases:
- 2549 power, after activating venom and assassin signet;
-58% + crit dmg;
-2.4 skill modifier for backstab;
-2.0 skill modifier for heartseeker after reaching the 25% hp treshold;
-1030 dmg for dagger strikes, assuming that it allways hits for max dagger dmg (981) and after dagger training is applied (for triggering max dagger dmg its required planetary alignment, pluto included);
-70% dmg increase from all traits/rune/assassins signet dmg modifiers: 5% from flanking strikes, 10% from scholar runes, exposed weakness and first strikes, 20% from executioner and 15 % from assassins signet.
The guardian has 19k hp and 2959 armor, as stated by the OP himself. So, to reach the 25% hp treshold (for heartseeker max dmg hits), we need to do over 14250 dmg first. C&D + steal + backstab = 2851 + 4320 + 8047 = 15218. We ONLY reach the 25% treshold for max heartseeker after backstab. So, this heartseer did meet the requirements to hit both the 25% treshold imposed by the skill itself, and the 50% treshold imposed by executioner to get the extra 20% dmg increase. But… what about BS? and C&D? and steal? we do know that C&D and steal never reaches the 50% treshold to trigger executioner, at least not in someone with 19k hp, but BS?
-> 2851 + 4320 = 7171… BS NEVER benefited from executioner, as it hit the target when he was above 50% hp. So, in light of this, BS did not reap the + 20% increase from executioner. That leaves us with only 50% dmg increase after crit and dagger training. Lets plug this figures in the dmg formula:
Dmg = 2549 × 1030 × 2.4 / 2959 <=> 2129 dmg for a normal hit; if we add the 108% increase from crit dmg we get 4429 dmg; now adding 50% dmg increase from traits/runes/signet, we finally get a BS for… 6644 dmg. That is far from 8047 dmg. And very similar to the heartseeker hit. Something does not compute. What is wrong here? Is it the armor value? the screenshot has zero value in that dept, as the number in there was plugged in by picture manipulation, the 19k hp value seems to be right coz its consistent with the death report shown on screen. These figures are similar with a toon having 2.5k armor, not 3k. In the mists, testing against the heavy golem im sure it will give our heartseekeers values within the reach of those 6630 shown in there. But BS for 8k when above 50% hp is very difficult. This is all very odd. Armor deflection (or, the effect of tufness in reducing dmg) is given by the formula (CA – BA)/CA, where CA is current armor and BA is base armor. With 2959 armor, and a guardian having 2127 base armor, the Armor deflection is 28.12%. That’s almost Protection. I dont understand this domages. The fact that steal hit for half of the BS, and BS hit for quite more than heartseeker benefiting from the executioner trait, makes me think that the OP is lying about his stats. This is another one of those threads. A useless one. QQ thread.

Anyway, whats important these days is that Bruce Lee, when he was alive, could take on 12 people each holding knives, and mop the floor with them. Suck it up Chuck Norris. And lets not forget Tom Cruise and The Last Samurai. This is of dire importance.

Calae.1738:

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away. Or a ranger with its wound licking pet.

What is next. All need the same base hp, armor, skills and weapons available?

A bit of flavour is good. If someone who has the ability to move (mesmer, warrior, thief and ele) is making it hard on you, then lure them to a spot you know they can’t easily escape from.

The downed state is an awesome idea and serves to further strategic play, which is good and creates deeper gameplay and teamwork. If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Preach it brother.

You can’t convince me that the downed state makes sense because I know that it doesn’t. I come from team FPS shooters that require a ridiculous amount of team play and hand an eye coordination. If those games had a downed state it would be hilarious.

Although those days are far away behind me; the memories are fresh like as if I had them yesterday. The adrenaline rush of being outnumbered 3 vs 1 and owning them all maybe a distant memory but; I could replay that part in my head in slow motion like Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Now days developers are arguably less passionate about what they do and don’t even play the game themselves. It’s more about money than anything else. In an effort to attract as many customers as possible; the game is dumbed down too far and/or unbalance due to too many unique abilities. The end result is skilled players getting bored or frustrated by the unbalance.

Once the Athletes leave; you can forget about spectators. If there are no spectators then you can forget about your esport.

Ahahahaha!! OMG!! Bruce Lee!!! Tom Cruise!! The Last Samurai!! This thread is getting more and more hilarious!
Okay, ive had my lulz, but now onto serious stuff: Are you really comparing a game with headshots and a RPG??? How does headshots and downed state could coexist in a fps? It doesnt make any sense at all, you are completely detached from reality, wake up. This is a game in a fantasy setting, with wizards, necromancers, assassins with stealth, big bulky ogres with greatswords, etc., in a genre where dying from one single hit form full health is considered not acceptable. We, in this genre, usually had healers, which could bump you from near death to full health in a split second (see infuse from gw1). Now, we dont have healers, but instead we have seen that replaced by the 6th skill and downed state. Makes all sense, and adds another layer of tacticality and strategy to the game. It also adds some great clutch moves, that require skill, reflexive behavior and high awareness, completely the opposite of a simpleton death matchmode game.
Of course, all this goes to smithereens when you have bruce Lee and Tom Cruise teaming up in Enter the Last Samurai Dragon. All arguments are invalid.

I want GPS. And street view.

I dont get all this fuss. Bruce Lee can mop the floor with 12 people holding knives. Hello?? Enter the Dragon anyone??

This is of dire importance: Bruce Lee can take on 12 people holding knives.

Davinci.8027:

Please do not make comments on what is viable/not viable, what is OP/UP, and whether rally should be in the game or not.

But, but, bruce lee can take on 12 ppl holding knives!!

Calae.1738:

ensoriki.5789

To be frank no one is supposed to beat two people in reality. 2v1 is inherently a disadvantage, winning it is primarily about the other two making significant mistakes, build wars or being vastly inferior.

Explain that to Bruce Lee if he was alive. This guy would mop the floor with 12 people each holding knives.

Ahahahahahahahah!!! I loled so hard!! Hilarious! I bet they hold their knives with their feet!! Plz go out and see the lights. There is a big ball of fire up there in the sky. Its beautiful. More real life, less Enter the Dragon!! OMG!! Ahahahah! Im gonna get another infraction, oh well… its my millionth already, who cares?

Shinobi.3240:

I use stealth … love the daze. :-)
But i don´t rely on it to stay alive.
Who is Columba?^^

Columba is an annoying ranger that cant play the game properly so he blames the thieves. And stealth.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Eduardo.4675:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Those rare yet beautiful times your CnD sets off a strike/blast and then the follow up bs sets off a strike/blast

Those must be very rare indeed, as they have 5 secs cooldown, and cooldown sigils once they proc, the cooldown is applied to any other sigils… unless, of course, you mean, C&D, wait 5 secs, BS…

I’m a patient backstabber. It may be rare since ive only seen it once, and it was used in conjunction with a HiS :p

Yep. You’re patient, no doubt. But i wouldnt call that BS a follow up.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Those rare yet beautiful times your CnD sets off a strike/blast and then the follow up bs sets off a strike/blast

Those must be very rare indeed, as they have 5 secs cooldown, and cooldown sigils once they proc, the cooldown is applied to any other sigils… unless, of course, you mean, C&D, wait 5 secs, BS…

oZii.2864:

Eduardo.4675:

In a build with 50% crit chance, sigil of air is better than sigil of force. Much better. 50% guarantees that it triggers twice every ten secs. In a build with lots of power/crit dmg, as usually are the builds with 50% crit chance, sigil of air gives you easily 1.5k dmg per hit, or 3k every ten secs. For sigil of force to be that powerful, you will need to do 60K dmg every 10 secs, so that a 5% increase will result in added 3k dmg. I dont really think you can do 60K dmg every ten seconds. Even if the target you are hiting as sindrome of down+cerebral palsy. That would mean 6k DPS. A sword autoattack chain (which is the most dmging part of the set, if you discount flanking strike, as most do) takes 2.4 secs to complete, and is nowhere near doing around 14.4K total dmg on a regular basis. So, in light of this very magical evidence, i use paralize sigil + air.

Thanks for the post. Love posts like these much appreciated gives good food for thought. Another question for you is if you had sigil of fire on a 1h weapon what would you put on the other force seems to be the most common choice I see people go with that or accuracy.

The best choice is almost allways force. Since this is mostly a pve/www thread (sigil of paralize doesnt work in tpvp), you can say it with a huge degree of certainty. The best choice to get more dmg is bloodlust/perception, but in these environments you can load the 25 stacks with one weapon and than go to the weapon of choice, so these 2 sigils automatically are out of the equation. Specially true for pve, where getting those 25 stacks is trivial.
The only way to have sigil of accuracy being better than sigil of force is to make those 5% more crit chance worth more than 5% dmg. However, in a build that wants to emcompass sigil of air, its impossible. Sigil of air only makes sense if you have high power, a crit chance of no less than 50% (to ensure a lot of procs, reducing the inate ramdomness of RNG mechanics) and also high crit dmg. The way this game handles crit dmg makes it so that a percentual increase in crits has dimishing returns, and those come very early.
For starters, any crit equal or below 100% more dmg will allways make force sigil do more dmg, as the crit rate is capped at 100%. With 100% crit dmg, if you have 95% crit chance, and then have to choose between adding 5% more direct dmg or 5% more crit rate, the result will allways be better for force sigil, by a margin of 1.0238%. Allways. It doesnt matter if you have 1 power or 3000 power. This margin gets higher the more you decrease crit dmg. Also, decreasing crit rate will actually make this margin smaller. Thats how numbers work, in misterious ways.
However, in this game it is possible to have crits that do more than double dmg, or higher than 100% more dmg. It is possible to conjure situations where a sigil of accuracy will do more dmg than a sigil of force. For this we need very high crit dmg and low crit rate. Seems contradictory, but it isnt. To calculate the average power of any given build, i use this formula: ((Pow x (100-Pre)) + ((Pow x Pro) x Pre))/100, where Pow is power, Pre is crit rate and Pro is crit dmg. Lets consider this example:
2000 Pow
4% Pre
250% Pro -> ((2000 x (100-4)) + ((2000 × 2,5) x 4))/100 = 2120, with sigil of force its -> 2120 × 1.05 = 2226 Average Power.
If instead we use a sigil of accuracy, we have this numbers:
2000 Pow
9% Pre
250% Pro -> ((2000 x (100-9)) + ((2000 × 2,5) x 9))/100 = 2270 Average Power. In this case, sigil of accuracy is more beneficial. Low crit rate, very high crit dmg. Lets get more crit rate in the next examples.
Using a scenario with 33.33% Pre, we have:
-> ((2000x (100-33.33)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 33.33))/100 = 2999.90; with sigil of force -> 2999.90 × 1.05 = 3149.90 average power.
If instead we use sigil of accuracy:
-> ((2000 x (100-38.33)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 38.33))/100 = 3149.90 average power.
With a crit dmg of 150% more dmg (250% Pro), the break point occurs at exactly 33.33%.
Finally,lets use a scenario with 50% crit rate:
-> ((2000 x (100-50)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 50))/100 = 3500; 3500 × 1.05 = 3675 average power.
With sigil of accuracy:
-> ((2000 x (100-55)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 55))/100 = 3650 average power. As we can see, at this point sigil of force has started to pay off.

Conclusion: sigil of force its allways better than accuracy in terms of raw numbers, accuracy is only worthwhile if you have a higher crit dmg than 100% and if you have very low crit rate. In a build with very high crit dmg, you need to look at your crit rate and perform some calculations to compute average power. I presented some numbers to serve as guidance, to better assess whats best for you, use the above formulas to determine average power on your build.

Start killing a few from the outside and go in. Kill a few around the node, then enter with caltrops and daggerstorm. Imediatelly after this go stealth to recuperate, you will need it. Never go stealth near the quaggans, the krait imediatelly change target when you go invis, and you take a lot of colateral dmg. Kill the vet quickly, he plays ping pong with you. Look at quaggans and try to fight there, but avoid stealthing near them, as i said. You can use caltrops even when on a power/crit build, its there just for control. If you are a full beserker, then it may be very hard, you will be poisoned all time, for example, and cripled for a big part of it, also. Watch out your revealed, ull need a lot of stealthing.
Edit: the supervisor allways had that buff, Righteous Indignation, it starts as soon as someone takes the camp, and starts at 4.59 secs. What they did was remove the condition dmg that was still going through, and some other small dmg. Wait for it to go away, then solo the guy, nothing changed in the camp npc’s, just the stealth aggro and this fix to the supervisor.

If i recall correctly, there was a difference around 20% in stats Performance beetwen ascended and exotic equipment. This is somewhat similar to Rares vs Exotics, although i dont have details on rares. However, we have base stats, which diminish this ratio greatly. I Will try to break it down.
Comparing exotics with ascended, beserker prefix, in a build with 25/30/0/0/15 (the classic glass idio… cannon), scholar runes, this will have, after equiping all trinkets, and only considering as dmg modifiers the amount of power, the crit chance and the crit dmg (this excludes stuff like exposed weakness, first strikes, executioner, etc) the following stats:
Beserker→ Exotic→ 2334 pow→ 51.52 % crit chance → 250% crit dmg, for an effective power (EP) of 4137.72;
Beserker→ Ascended → 2426 pow→ 52.95 % crit chance → 258% crit dmg, for an EP of 4455.62.
Performance → Ascended/Exotic <=> 4455.62/4137.72 = 7.68% increase in damage.

Since both share the same weapons, base stats, traits and armor, lets eliminate this and compare raw stats:
Exotic → 508 pow → 16.48% crit chance → 136% crit dmg → EP → 538.14;
Ascended → 600 pow → 17.9% crit chance → 144% crit dmg → EP → 647.26
Performance > Ascended/Exotic <=> 647.26/538.14 <= > 20.28% (wow!)

Since we all come with base stats, lets now add those:
Exotic → 1424 pow → 20.48 % crit chance → 186% crit dmg → EP → 1674.81;
Ascended → 1516 pow → 21.9 % crit chance → 194% crit dmg → EP → 1828.08.
Performance > Ascended/Exotic <=> 1828.08/1674.81 <=> 9.15%.

This basically tells us that at base stats the difference in performance is around 10%, give it or take. As we add equipment and traits, this difference tends to fade away, but its stil noticeable, even at higher levels of min/max.

Zenith S. Petersburg. Football fans. Zenith S.Petersburg supporters. There is a line to follow here. I wont go into more details. Im already crossing a line here.

^This. Only when fighting a champ mob in Orr did i get the ocasional reset, coz those reset faster, or in a prolonged stealth where the monster just got bored of waiting. Our downed state now is equal to defeated state, coz mobs are now bloodthirsty. Its like they know about the update: “ah, youre screwed now you lame stealther!”.

JakobGW.5730:

Rage and Fire.

I am a huge advocate for Sigil of Rage as a S/D thief. This sigil alone has gotten me numereous kills. The damage potential from the combo of this sigil’s proc and certain traits will down just about anyone or certainly send them into defensive mode which means less damage to me.

For my playstyle, Paralyzation is secondary to an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so. I average around 2 TS’s per fight (more for guardians or bunker ele’s) and I feel like an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so is a little more beneficial.

Just my 2 cents.

Sigils with internal cooldowns do not stack with each other. If you proc sigil of rage, it will enter a 45s CD, disabling sigil of fire from triggering for the same time. This means only one sigil active at any given time, if you have both sigils with internal cooldowns. This is true even for sigils with different types of procs, like sigils that proc on swap (battle, geomancy, etc) and sigils that proc on crit (air, rage, fire,etc). Its allways more productive to combine sigils of different nature, like a permanent sigil (force,accuracy, paralize) and a proc sigil. Also, on kill sigils follow this rules, you can combine them with both on proc sigils and permanent sigils. If damage is your main worry, combine sigil of fire with force, or force with rage.

Trick shot is a bouncer. I dont mean that he is usually seen at the entrance of Clubs, but rather that the shot bounces off targets. You cannot disable it. However, you can turn off auto attack by right clicking+shift (or control, cant remember now).

Scootabuser.4915:

Molch.2078:

Critical Damage: 109% You have by default 50% Critical Damage. 100 Dmg +109% CritDMG = 259 Dmg on Crit.

I need to stop making these at 4 in the morning, yeah it’s supposed to be 209%

And you need to extend that period. Its 259% more. As in, two and a half men…erm, dmg.

In a build with 50% crit chance, sigil of air is better than sigil of force. Much better. 50% guarantees that it triggers twice every ten secs. In a build with lots of power/crit dmg, as usually are the builds with 50% crit chance, sigil of air gives you easily 1.5k dmg per hit, or 3k every ten secs. For sigil of force to be that powerful, you will need to do 60K dmg every 10 secs, so that a 5% increase will result in added 3k dmg. I dont really think you can do 60K dmg every ten seconds. Even if the target you are hiting as sindrome of down+cerebral palsy. That would mean 6k DPS. A sword autoattack chain (which is the most dmging part of the set, if you discount flanking strike, as most do) takes 2.4 secs to complete, and is nowhere near doing around 14.4K total dmg on a regular basis. So, in light of this very magical evidence, i use paralize sigil + air.

Use a heavy condition build. And shortbow or D/D, P/D is slow. Jump on firts scout with C&D+steal, when invisible drop caltrops, backstab him and than, by this time the other mobs will be next to you, activate daggerstorm. This should kill 1st scout at least. Take out the other scout, then guard, then supervisor. If supervisor has Indignation buff, better wait. In this state he deals massve dmg and takes none. His large reach KD in this state can be devastating. Watch for the new stealth aggro, it makes clatrops drop easier coz they wont move after you go invis, making placement better, but if your downed, you are dead. Before you could hit stealth down skill and they would return to their places.
If you are unsure, and want to be more careful, make a pull. Pull in the opposite side of where the supervisor stands and try to call scouts one by one, this will usually bring some of the others anyway, but without the supervisor to assist. Some camps have the supervisor placed opposite from the quartermaster and the doliaks, if you pull carefully, ull get the quartermaster and the doliaks only to follow you, without atracting the scouts and guards, making for an easy soloing. bare in mind that tis careful pulling way is slower and is more effective using a direct dmg build instead of a condition build.

Oh!! now i see! its deleted post, not thread! The joke is on me, lol! My bad, i apologize, Mr moderator!

I just got this message in my message center: Moderator.3964 Deleted Message in "Post: “Why I Stopped Having Fun in GW2 PvP”"

“Due to your post referring to an already deleted post, your post is deleted aswell for clean up purposes. Be assured that this message only serves the purpose of informing you of what happenend to your post and in no way has a negative impact on your forum privileges.”

I received this message 3 times. And now im posted in this “suposedly” deleted thread. Im pretty sure this thread is neither deleted or closed. What happened Mr Moderator? Tired already? Ok, i give you permission to go home and take a break. This job can be tiresome. I get it. And for the record, i agree with deleting this thread, its useless anyway. However, me agreeing is not gonna make it happen. Do something!!!
What a fail.

Larynx.2453:

Eduardo.4675:

Reinhart.2703:

Eduardo.4675:

“But regardless – who cares about feedback right? I am just a troll that wants this game to fail…. Quick question before you flame the crap out of me – what have you done for the game personally? Thats what I thought.”

What ive done for the game? well, mostly, i tried to not post stupid stuff like “i can C&D+BS 3 times in a row before the target can react”, or, “Null Void (Field) should be elite in a 3 min CD”, or, "there should be a NPC healer in a 4 walled Arena (LOL, as in laughing out loud)… I think i had a not so bad sucess at that. And whoru???
Also, i tried to play and understand the game and its mechanics rather than dismiss it after playing it for 30 minutes, i posted several theorycrafts regarding game mechs and maths in gw2guru before the game and this forum were out, i learned how to play a game where skills can be used whilst moving, unlike its predecessor or WOW, which is something that im sure annoys you particularly, given your WOW background and the obvious lack of skill that exhales from your thief/mesmer complaints.
And, to finalize, i tried, and suceeded, not to dismiss peeps argumentation with ad hominem. Just now, in this post, you asked a question and quickly answered it, completely dismissing what people might have or not to say. Great job.
Quick question: what have you done to this game?

Promoted the crap out of it before it released, provided decent same message feedback starting from Beta. Got over thousands of people buying and trying out the game.

I guess you playing thief and learning how to hearts**k i mean learning how to play this game tops w.e I did. Good job!

You got over thousands of people to buy it?? ANET!!!!!! This man needs a reward!!! Thousands of people!! ahahahaha!! Unbelievable!!
Whoru?

https://www.youtube.com/user/reinhartdarussian

Wellisntthisawkward

OMG!!! Thank you for that!! I now know who this noobaton is!! He is the “afroseeker”!!!
In the beggining of the game, back before heartseeker was changed, he made a video where he calls heartseeker “afroseeker” (quite racial if you ask me, that goes to show how much of a braindead moron he is)!! That vid consisted of him showing off how hearseeker was over the top, and whenever he was spamming it, he would shout “afroseeker, afroseeker”!! This guy is a laughing stock. And a liar. If at that time he was already complaining about the game, how come he claims now that he helped sell “thousands of copies”? He is just some Blizzard “secret agent” trying to bad mouth this game. He is back in business. I guess the last developments in the pvp department, coupled with ppl already started to exodus the Pandarian Kingdom prompted this rush of complaints. He is not someone to take seriously. And he is basically an uneducated person, with some “racial quirks” that i consider unaceptable.

Reinhart.2703:

Eduardo.4675:

“But regardless – who cares about feedback right? I am just a troll that wants this game to fail…. Quick question before you flame the crap out of me – what have you done for the game personally? Thats what I thought.”

What ive done for the game? well, mostly, i tried to not post stupid stuff like “i can C&D+BS 3 times in a row before the target can react”, or, “Null Void (Field) should be elite in a 3 min CD”, or, "there should be a NPC healer in a 4 walled Arena (LOL, as in laughing out loud)… I think i had a not so bad sucess at that. And whoru???
Also, i tried to play and understand the game and its mechanics rather than dismiss it after playing it for 30 minutes, i posted several theorycrafts regarding game mechs and maths in gw2guru before the game and this forum were out, i learned how to play a game where skills can be used whilst moving, unlike its predecessor or WOW, which is something that im sure annoys you particularly, given your WOW background and the obvious lack of skill that exhales from your thief/mesmer complaints.
And, to finalize, i tried, and suceeded, not to dismiss peeps argumentation with ad hominem. Just now, in this post, you asked a question and quickly answered it, completely dismissing what people might have or not to say. Great job.
Quick question: what have you done to this game?

Promoted the crap out of it before it released, provided decent same message feedback starting from Beta. Got over thousands of people buying and trying out the game.

I guess you playing thief and learning how to hearts**k i mean learning how to play this game tops w.e I did. Good job!

You got over thousands of people to buy it?? ANET!!!!!! This man needs a reward!!! Thousands of people!! ahahahaha!! Unbelievable!!
Whoru?

Raif.9507:

Eduardo.4675:

randomfightfan.4091:

lol you don’t need to be super fast when you’re planning ahead, you know when you’ll need it. Also remember, the heal dodges/evades… I use it for the evades too and so should you.
Newais ed try doing the content before you have your mini freak outs.

Thats not a freak out, your genuinely bad. And planning ahead doesnt stop you from using kbinds, or, for the lack of better gameplay, better clicking… I dont do pve, just SPVP and WWW, the pve i did was Orr, coz i needed the temples to spend my karma in gear. Also, i use withdraw as well, only i do it a lot better than you, thats beyond belief, the most meritable thing in that skill for me is its insta cast perk, along with immo removal. You completely destroy it with that gameplay. Dont even try to tell me how to play, plz. Your not the example to follow.
@the rocker: Dude, if he tried to solo ME with that amount of clicking, he would die in a flash. Soloing a static monster that doenst know what is a smoke field is quite different from soloing a player, something i do almost everyday. On my thief. And my ele. This is just bad. Ive seen pve players in vids that are a loooooot better than this. This is just bad. Woooooo, he soloed Lupicus. Lulzy.

I’d say before you judge, go solo lupicus, come back and show a video of it before you point fingers, you might find it harder than you think.

sPvP and PvE are different play styles and require different skills to play, you don’t play the same way in PvE and sPvP.

I dont need to solo Lupicus to see that the video displayed a very bad player. I dont do videos, thats for kids, mostly. And im pretty sure im a lot better than dis guy. He wouldnt hold a candle to me in a 1vs1. And youre wrong, pve and pvp dont have to necessarily have different skillset required, thats a myth. Its just different gameplay, its a scripted battle that you will memorize after enough repetitions, unlike pvp. Here, as you can see, the fast reactions that are the bread and butter of pvp, the twitch reflexes, are not required, you also are not required much of awareness, since you know whats gonna happen in advance, you are not required much attention either, you know whats next. Its just easier. And clicking the heal skill, specially one that has insta cast as one of its advantadges, is just awful. Im pretty sure that in the future i will do lupicus, when i bore from www and spvp, but im also sure ill do it just a couple times, as i will with most of the rest of the content. It just bores me like that, i cant see the point in repeting the same content over and over again a million times, like pve guys do it. I finish the content of a game, like i did with skyrim, and the game is over to me.

randomfightfan.4091:

lol you don’t need to be super fast when you’re planning ahead, you know when you’ll need it. Also remember, the heal dodges/evades… I use it for the evades too and so should you.
Newais ed try doing the content before you have your mini freak outs.

Thats not a freak out, your genuinely bad. And planning ahead doesnt stop you from using kbinds, or, for the lack of better gameplay, better clicking… I dont do pve, just SPVP and WWW, the pve i did was Orr, coz i needed the temples to spend my karma in gear. Also, i use withdraw as well, only i do it a lot better than you, thats beyond belief, the most meritable thing in that skill for me is its insta cast perk, along with immo removal. You completely destroy it with that gameplay. Dont even try to tell me how to play, plz. Your not the example to follow.
@the rocker: Dude, if he tried to solo ME with that amount of clicking, he would die in a flash. Soloing a static monster that doenst know what is a smoke field is quite different from soloing a player, something i do almost everyday. On my thief. And my ele. This is just bad. Ive seen pve players in vids that are a loooooot better than this. This is just bad. Woooooo, he soloed Lupicus. Lulzy.

My God!! If i have 2254 power (as in 25/30/0/0/15), i can heal for 1208 every 2 secs!! And i will hit by 521 added dmg, as well!! Thats 604 HPS and 260 DPS in 1 skill!! And it still works as the normal SoM we know, hit and heal.

Luca Soda.3987:

I started a match in Spirit Watch (Solo queue) and when I entered in the match… a Guardian and an Elementalist were attacking me.
A censured version of the screenshot is attched.
I have also a video of 25s in which I tried to attack the Elementalist without any problem. Ideas?
Sorry if I’m not update about the last bugabusing or something like that.

Nah. Your wrong. Those are not your enemies. That charr is the Healer NPC anet made for the long awaited gw2 Arenas deathmatch. Your inside four walls, now. Theyre coming for you.

Darnisu.3042:

I have been pvping for quite a while and one of the things that I absolutely HATE is when someone has a build that counters mine, which mine is based around conditions and the other person say a mesmer is using the utility that converts all conditions into boons and the cooldowns seem to go so fast that i just cant damage the person now i have my condition damage maxed out and do about 200 damage for my bleed and 300 damage for my poison this is a lot of damage and when these guys have so many condition cures and extremely quick cool downs that its just flat out ridiculous and pointless to try and fight that so you end up quitting probably getting kitten off because its used as a utility then you end up falling in line with these heart seeker spam types this ability is stupid, its ridiculously overpowered and its probably better off being removed from the pvp side of the game or stuck on the one major heal that someone has

I totally agree with the OP in that its ridiculous to not have comas and dots in ur kboard like other peeps have and that would be quite handy when typing down inchoerent rants about professions that are extremely annoying even more annoying than this wall of letters im sure some dots and comas would help a lot like this: ,…;
There you have it. Dots. Plenty of dots.
Speaking of the issue at hand, dot dmg (hahahaha), i also agree that its hateful when someone has a build that counters mine. It should not happen, ever. I should be uncounterable. Specially when i have a condition build with 3140 malice. When someone makes a build with 3140 condition dmg, that will produce bleeds ticking for 200 dmg per sec, i should not be countered. Even if that same build does not produce the correponding 398 poison dmg that it should, producing 300 dmg ticks instead. Somehow im confused, something doesnt compute. Oh well. All that could have been avoided if Anet listened to that guy, a famous WOW Gladiator DK called Reinhardt (or something like that) that made a remarkable work of sorts explaining why GW2 needs a healer NPC that heals ppl when inside a 4 wall arena (?). As he so eloquently explained, Mesmers have something called Null Void (pretty much like the void in his head) that erradicate all 200 dmg bleeds from them. It should have a 3 min CD. It should be Elite skill. Pretty much like Heartseeker. Those types are annoying. After all, 200 dmg bleeds and 300 dmg poison is a lot of dmg.
I feel your pain.

Im sorry, but wat was dat?? I allways used withdraw as my healing skill, but seeing this dude using it is painful… what a horrible gameplay, an insta cast heal that is clicked?? where are the kbinds?? and worse, its bad EVEN for clickers standards, youre terribly slow! Play some CoD, BF or Counter Strike to improve on your clicking, at least! And no, this update wasnt kind on stealth/pve thieves, mobs are more predictable, its easier to gun down champions, but when u make a mistake and are downed, your invis skill no longer saves you, that used to be the life saver when downed…
Is that how pve ppl play this game?? My God! Ive never done this Lupicus thingie, but that is beyond words…

The OP started with 1s of prot and revealed per crit hit. It then moved on to 5s, with the non reaplly clause. My 1st answer was to 1st OP. Now, its 3s of revealed. A lot has changed.
And my tactical strike, which is the reason for a S/D spec, was being hindered by the no stealth clause. And having to wait to use HIS too. I want to use tactical strike after the 3rd sword auto as much as possible, and the initial build was denying that intirely. Even this version with 6s max revealed is poor. The 10% crit chance increase wouldnt make up for it, far from that. It only serves a PW spec, a spec that is initiative intense, making usage of return to wipe conditions very difficult coz youre conditioned on your usage of HIS. And in a spec that is protection based, conditions are the counter.

Daecollo.9578:

Eduardo.4675:

It doesnt make much sense. It only benefits pistol whip build, which already has a evade built into the pistol whip skill already. Plus, it eliminates the proper use of HIS, which is the only reliable cond remover on a build without shadow embrace. And would make SR tricky to use. A PW with high crit chance will generate a lot of revealed debuff, denying use of both HIS and SR, and to the ones that use it, Blinding Power utility. I wouldnt use it.

Actually, it states that its 5s and 5s of revealed, and it won’t proc again if you already have protection, meaning it won’t matter if you use Flanking Strike or PW, it won’t generate anymore or less protection. Flanking Strike has an evade as well.

CnD is a dagger attack, so it won’t proc this trait, so if you wait 5 seconds, use CnD when ya need condition removal and stealth it would still work.

Really? And how am i gonna use proper tactical strike control build if i generate revealed debuff constantly with sword attacks, which are the dps of a S/D spec? This doesnt serve a S/D spec. Only a PW spec, which has no cond removal outside of HIS and Shadowstep, with the latter being very poor at it. That was my point. Deny stealth and you are conditioned in your usage of HIS or Shadow Embrace.

It doesnt make much sense. It only benefits pistol whip build, which already has a evade built into the pistol whip skill already. Plus, it eliminates the proper use of HIS, which is the only reliable cond remover on a build without shadow embrace. And would make SR tricky to use. A PW with high crit chance will generate a lot of revealed debuff, denying use of both HIS and SR, and to the ones that use it, Blinding Power utility. I wouldnt use it.

OP: its still working.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7|8.1g.h14.a.1g.h1|5.1g.h4|1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|0.f6.u45b.p39.0|2e.7|e
Here. Without ascended items and divinity runes. Slightly less survivable, but more damaging.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7|8.1g.h14.a.1g.h1|5.1g.h4|1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j|2s.e13.2s.e13.3s.e16.2s.e13.3s.e16.2s.e13|0.f6.u45b.p39.0|2e.7|e

Here is your resillient build. With dmg, too.
Copy link into another tab if it doesnt direct you straight away.

Archer.1658:

Oh my, I didn’t realize A kittenING FOOD BUFF BROKE OR MADE BUILDS. Noob.

Im chosing your post, but this can be applied to any other post that doesnt understand whats at stake here. Nothing personal, i reiterate.

Omnonberry ghost was a type of food that, due to its power, was capable of making a buid around itself. No other food has this much power.The closest i can think of is rare pizza for condition builds, with its ability to make low duration bleeds stack immensely. in example, a pistol/dagger thief.
This building around itself stems from the fact that this food gives a ~350 life steal (which is dmg to target) every time it procs from a crit. And it has a 66% chance to do so, coupled with 3.4% extra crit chance. How does this works?
Lets say that you have 60% crit chance, and ure using a multi hit skill as your bread and butter. Pistol Whip serves nicely. With this much crit chance, ghost food can EASILY trigger 3 times per Pistol Whip. Its the bare minimum you can expect from it. If its a hasted Pistol Whip, (as they usually are, this is how you stunlock ppl with it), you can perform 2 PW’s in ~2.5 secs, and proc 6 ghost hits. In that timeframe, you deal ~2Kmore dmg, and heal yourself for the same amount. Its a powerhouse in dmg+evading+healing. This will offset the lack os stealth inherent to PW builds, and in www almost every thief out there is going 30 in Shadow Arts for the sheer power of shadow rejuv+shadow embrace+infusion of shadow/cloaked in shadow. Im one of them.
What did the update do? The mechanic of PW is this: first, hits with pistol for the stun, this hit is the longest part of PW animation,it takes almost one sec to complete (half sec on haste), then, it resumes the sword hits, 8 of them in rapid sucession. Since the update/nerf, made the ghost food have an internal cooldown of 2 secs, if you now want to replicate the given example of 2 PW’s on haste and 6 procs, you wiil have this:
-Pistol stun takes 0.5 s to complete, it actually does crit and procs food, now you wait 2 secs, for the nex proc.. at this time youre already in the end of your second PW, so the next proc needs to be on the third PW… This made it so that PW+Omnon Ghost original build was erradicated, which i think was what the OP was trying to convey.
Just to finalize, before this patch, the Omnon foods were by far the most powerfull buffs to power builds out there,all you needed was upwards of 50% crit chance and ideally a multi hit build (100 Blades, 100 nades, warrior axe, Cluster bombing, GS mesmer autoattack, you name it). For comparison, sigil of air procs twice every 10 secs for 4k dmg total, no healing attached, can see its dmg deflected by armor/protection,etc. An Unload spammer with ghost can easily trigger it 3 times per Unload, 5 Unloads in 10 secs…

Thats wrong.
I have only one pve only daily: group events, need 2 of them. I need to go Orr or something to get this one faster/easier. Thats all.

Verisuvalise.3615:

I like how everyone who disagrees with you must not be ‘smart’.

Regardless. We, as thieves, have the same base dodges as any other class — any direction, specified distance, etc.

Apart from that, SB 5 slot is a spammable shadowstep to any location in range that costs a flexible resource.
We also have raw shadowstep.
Our melee specs also have psuedo-shadowsteps that teleport us to our targets (Shadow Shot, Infiltrators Strike, and I guess Heartseeker, kind of)

All of these abilities let us travel in any direction we want (or are able to).

There are lots of them.

Apart from that, we have 2 ‘disengage’ style spells — Withdraw, which also restores Health, and ‘Roll for Initiative’ which restores initiative.

The shadowsteps are given to us as straight utilities. You don’t have to tie a heal or resource regen to a shadowstep to make it useful — it’s already incredibly useful.

Similarly, the ‘disengage’ type abilities DO need these tie-ins because they are, essentially, pidgeon-holed into being used as escapes and thus, as evasive, hyper-mobile high damage dealers, are less directly useful to us than an ability that can teleport us anywhere we want within x00 yards.

However, since these ‘diengage’ type abilities ARE capable of being used to move us around a battlefield similar to how a shadowstep might, but are still tied to more beneficial spells that the easier-to-use shadowsteps dont provide, a theoretical ‘skill-threshold’ is set before these abilities are maximized.

You haven’t reached that threshold, and thus find the abilities less useful.

^ In others words, OP: Learn to Play.

It doesnt take skill? what is your problem then? you need to be spoonfed all the way? you want it the easy way, thats all. “hey, anet, let the game play itself for me plz, while i eat these tacos”. And saying “everyone uses withdraw as a dodge” its ridiculous. I use it as a heal and a immo remover. I ocasionally also use it when fighting eles to remove the aura chills. Never use it as a simple dodge. And you kittening look like Alf.

If that was for me, know that i havent claimed that you claimed to be good either… let alone the best thief. Just read my post again. I only said that its of good note to edit stuff where you hold clear advantadge over your opponents.
Example?? the first fight. At some point, you said “respect for not attacking me while im being trained by NPC’s”, while you, on the other hand, had all castle buffs, a food buff and a sharpening stone buff.

In almost all fights you had either castle buffs, food buffs or both. The first fight you had them all. In the fight you lost, you had castle buffs while ur opponent had a stone/oil buff, still he owned you. In the fight where there was a guardian, we can see him using turn table movement, way to go, pro guardian!! Try to edit those away, it makes you look bad. As it did.

Darxio.5672:

Eduardo.4675:

Why build a car that turns left when you steer right? to have funny driving.

Motorcycles turn their handlebars left to go right.

I once took my nephew (?) to a science show, and amongst other funny stuff, there was this bycicle that used those handlebars, only they were working “normal”. It was hilarious watching the 6 year old trying to veer right and going left all the time, with the following tumbles. However, even this six year old kid got the hang of it. The OP is less capable than this kid. Pathetic. And, guys, its a skill. Not a dodge. If it worked like a dodge, it would be less visible to opponents he was infact healing, not dodging. When i see someone using withdraw, i notice coz of this and the long distance traveled. I dont use head shot to interrupt it on these ppl, coz this heal is uninterruptible, for example. Maybe we need a moderator/dev coming here to clarify?