Guild Wars 2

The mesmer can be a fairly survivable class, but not in a face-taking kind of way. Our damage isn’t very effective in fights where enemies die quickly and we don’t have much aoe, but in longer fights against fewer targets we can put out a respectable amount of damage (we’re still on the low end of the spectrum though). Mesmers have a somewhat high skill floor but not an especially high skill cap (if we ever get better control over, or become less reliant upon, our illusions it will probably go up significantly). We also have some very powerful group support and small scale pvp utility.

Arken.3725:

Two abilities, one on an 80 sec cd, the other on a 30. That’s Plenty!!!

Yes. It is.

vutak.3186:

In messing around trying to see the exact effect of Temporal Enchanter, it felt like Null Field was unusually short, duration-wise. Its advertised duration is 7 seconds, but I was finding it lasted closer to 4-5 seconds untraited, tops, and 5-6 traited. Any chance someone could confirm that?

Yep, confirmed on the previous page.

ConterK.3972:

Effusion.4831:

ConterK.3972:

Effusion.4831:

Scepter clones only use the first scepter attack instead of the entire chain, making them much less useful for procing sharper images and easier to identify as clones.

Like its meant to be..
The skill says the clones will only cast Ether Bolt.. not the whole chain.. neither the Ether CLONE hit.. is just ether bolt..

having clones that summon clones and clones and clones would be a little(actually a LOT) too OP..

So have them go through the animation and not summon a clone. I wouldn’t judge the ability’s intent by the tooltip considering it still says that Ether Clone applies confusion.

i think it meant to say that confuses ur enemy by making a clone of urself.. rather than actually applying confusion condition..
if it was to apply confusion condition.. it would say the time and Lv of confusion applyed.. just like all the other skills that do apply confusion state..

An older version of the scepter applied confusion instead of summoning clones, so either the tooltip was updated incorrectly or they accidentally removed the confusion.

ConterK.3972:

he has a ~450(mayb more up to 600) AOE range of attack..

lol, no. Not even close. 1200 is the range on the staff, 900 is the range on the scepter, 600 is the range on illusionary leap, 300 is the range of a dodge roll, 130 is the range of blurred frenzy. Warden is somewhere around 200.

Mob: eenie meenie miney mo…

Press 1 – port/leap forward 600m.
Press 2 – spawn an clone and port back.
Fixed.

ConterK.3972:

Effusion.4831:

Scepter clones only use the first scepter attack instead of the entire chain, making them much less useful for procing sharper images and easier to identify as clones.

Like its meant to be..
The skill says the clones will only cast Ether Bolt.. not the whole chain.. neither the Ether CLONE hit.. is just ether bolt..

having clones that summon clones and clones and clones would be a little(actually a LOT) too OP..

So have them go through the animation and not summon a clone. I wouldn’t judge the ability’s intent by the tooltip considering it still says that Ether Clone applies confusion.

MLieBennett.9031:

Bugged: Shredding Recharge Rate on the Illusion trait line, does not in fact lower the CD of the the Shatter skills. Needs to be fixed!

It does actually, the tooltip just doesn’t change.

zbaaca.6429:

i use offhand sword & have “illusionists celerity” & while adding dueling trait #4 “blade training” cd of 4 & 5 skills doesn’t decrease

They both reduce the cooldown of phantasmal swordsman but the tooltip only updates for one (this is a universal tooltip problem when abilities have their cd reduced by more than one trait).
Illusionary Repost does not have its cooldown reduced by either one (whether it spawns a clone or not), even though the tooltip will say that it has been reduced.
Blade Training does not reduce the cooldown of Illusionary Leap, but Illusionist’s celerity does.

“@whatever guy said the warden cooldown was 25

The cooldown on the warden is definately 20 not 25"
No. It’s 25s, 20s with Illusionist’s Celerity or Warden’s Feedback, and 15s with both (although the tooltip will still say 20s).

Oops, you’re right. I forgot that I was getting stacks of might while I was testing it

(numbers are made up)
If you detonate one clone it does 500 damage.
If you detonate two clones, they each do 600 damage. If they hit the same target, the target will take 1200 damage.
You’re confused because the tooltips are terrible, never rely on them. Sometimes when it says damage (3x): 500 it means three hits for a total of 500 damage, and sometimes it means three hits for 500 each.

Daze duration does not stack which is why it always appears to be 1s, but each illusion applies it (if they hit at different times you will get more than 1s, or if you have them on different targets).

Scepter clones only use the first scepter attack instead of the entire chain, making them much less useful for procing sharper images and easier to identify as clones.

The main problem with the scepter is that it’s the only ranged 1h option, although the #1 attack needs more damage (confusion makes sense) and the clones need to do the entire attack chain.

Don’t fight a mesmer 1 on 1?

Wouldn’t it make more sense to pair crit chance+crit damage, condition duration+condition damage, and power with whatever is left over (shatter recharge for mesmers)?

Since it keeps 1 non-threatening stack of confusion up on people it becomes easier to pile on more confusion later without drawing attention? That’s all I got.

If it’s not going to be ambulatory then having some actual control over its placement would be fantastic, especially if it was ground targeted.

They actually have improved mind spike since that video was made, it’s much faster now.

ConterK.3972:

Has nobody ever considered using both veil and mass invisibility to keep a RAID of people invisible for almost 10s…………………???

This is like the 5th thread i’v seen saying that MAss invis suck, etc etc.. wtf..

Seriously.. thats why 90% of the mesmers suck in this game.. people have such a short mind for creative use of skills.. and just say 1 skill is bad because you already got another that do something alike..

Nobody has said it’s bad or that it sucks, we’ve said it’s on par with a utility ability and doesn’t belong in the elite slot.

edit: between the two I actually like veil much more. It can be traited as a glamour, it gives a combo field, and it doesn’t have a target limit.

The staff skill #4 Chaos Armor grants protection immediately upon casting, which is not mentioned in the tooltip. Chaos Armor granted through combo fields only gives protection as a potential proc upon being hit.

Echo became the utility spell Mimic.
I do agree that mass invisibility isn’t elite worthy since we have veil.

The GS puts out solid non-condition damage, can keep enemies out of your face, can strip boons, grants might, and its our highest aoe damage weapon (sword/ might go higher in theory, but in practice you need to move around too much to maximize its aoe damage). It also has the fastest attacking clones of all three weapons (good for sharper image procs). Imo it pairs best with the staff.

Some helpful information.
Clones don’t move except when they’re out of range/don’t have line of sight.
Clones don’t carry an offhand weapon.
Clones attack more slowly than the mesmer.
Clones are summoned with a full health bar even when the mesmer is damaged.
Clones only use their weapon’s autoattack.
Clones deal damage in the 1-2 digit range.
Clones+phantasms are very weak and go down quickly to aoe.
Clones+phantasms will not be targeted by bouncing buffs (for mesmers, the staff autoattack and the greatsword throw).

Carighan.6758:

The problem is not whether Shatters work or not, the problem is how the three core class mechanics (Clones, Phantasms, Shatters) more often than not are at odds with one another, instead of synergizing.

Well said (and to the OP as well), it’s the disharmony between different playstyles that is forced to exist within every build that make it a sort of Frankenstein’s monster class (imo the same problem exists within a lot of the talent trees for other classes but not in their weapons/class mechanics).

I do think there is one shatter, however, which works in every build: distortion. Unlike the damage shatters it doesn’t require trait investments to be useful and it’s not competing with phantasms’ damage output. It’s still cheaper to use with clones, but it is better to lose your phantasms then have your face ground into the dirt. I don’t think it’s the solution, but it’s worth bearing in mind along with the fact that the iwarden, idefender, and idisenchanter are utility illusions rather than dps.

To make it all work together phantasms or shatters could become non-damage oriented, clones and phantasms could to be equalized in value (for example have phantasms do a strong attack when initially summoned and then do clone-level damage after that), shattering could be separated from phantasms, or shattering could be moved to the utility bar and something else put in the class mechanics bar (eg glamours, mantras, or manipulations become our class mechanic).

edit: for clarity, it’s not that I think the class doesn’t “work” as-is. It’s that I think the current mesmer lacks some of the elegance of classes whose fundamental parts work in harmony.

""Temporal Enchanter” is either bugged or the tooltips are incorrect for Glamours. With Temporal Enchanter active the field lasts as long as the tooltips say by default and without it they end faster then what the tooltips say by default."

I figured this one out. Temporal enhancer seems to be adding a flat 2s onto glamour durations, but 3 out of 4 the glamour tooltips are incorrect.
Veil lasts 6s rather than 8s, 8s with TE
Null Field lasts 4s rather than 7s, 6s with TE
Feedback lasts 6s as described, 8s with TE
Portal Exeunt lasts 12s rather than 20s, 14s with TE

It does make sense to organize the skill bars in a uniform fashion since we can’t do it ourselves.

Temariah, I agree that this is hardly a pressing issue but your response is pretty silly. If you have to think before pressing a button to control your character you’re doing it wrong, it should be a matter of muscle memory. It’s not dumbing down the game in the slightest, it’s streamlining the control scheme.

Killua.8041:

Odin.8691:

i would like to see a snare on the flame thrower, and turn the majority of damage into condition damage. a flame thrower works by dousing the target in flaming liquids, so by that logic it should dot based damge.

Flamethrower is primary a power weapon, the condition counterpart is the Elixir Gun.

Not really, the elixir gun is a support tool. It’s pretty abysmal for dealing damage.

Threlmar.7315:

I happen to LOVE explosives, and that’s where the profession really seems to shine atm, so I could see those that prefer other playstyles being disappointed in the performance of other kits/weapons.

Pretty much this. If you don’t like bombs/grenades you probably won’t enjoy the engineer as it is currently.

I find the combination of no autoattack and ground targeting to make the kit extremely tedious, which is a shame since it is far and away the strongest damage option once you get the grenadier trait. If grenade #1 was a ground targeted autoattack (press once to start throwing grenades and again to stop) it would go a long way to making the kit more fun for me.
This is, however, secondary to making the other kits and weapons competitive in dps, making turrets viable, etc.

piitb.7635:

Effusion.4831:

Scepter #1 is terrible for anything except clone spamming for shatter fodder. It creates the least useful type of clone (lowest attack speed, no conditions/boons, and doesn’t even have the same attack pattern as the mesmer) while having the lowest dps autoattack. As a niche weapon that may be acceptable, but as the only mesmer ranged 1h weapon it’s problematic.

A clone is a clone. Clones do not differentiate from each other.

If you mean a phantasm, scepter by itself has no phantasm. Only offhands and 2h weapons have phantasms.

scepter has it’s autoattack, a block/blind and a channeled confusion spell.

I mean that scepter clones only use the first attack in the scepter attack chain, making them even easier to recognize compared to the clones of other weapons. They attack more slowly than other types of clones, thus making them less useful for proccing sharper images. And they don’t apply any secondary effects (staff clones apply staff boons/conditions and sword clones apply vulnerability. I’m not sure if sword clones strip boons as well).

Scepter #1 is terrible for anything except clone spamming for shatter fodder. It creates the least useful type of clone (lowest attack speed, no conditions/boons, and doesn’t even have the same attack pattern as the mesmer) while having the lowest dps autoattack. As a niche weapon that may be acceptable, but as the only mesmer ranged 1h weapon it’s problematic.

Best:
feedback
decoy
chaos storm

feedback – A versatile power that can be used both offensively and defensively at the same time.
decoy – An all purpose defensive power.
chaos storm – One of the few mesmer aoe damage abilities, the most frequently available source of chaos armor, and it’s conditions increase iwarlock’s damage while being useful in and of themselves.

Worst:
Mantras
Scepter #1
iMage

Mantras – with such an absurdly long cast time they would need to be quite powerful indeed to be worth using, which they are not. For example, for every second an enemy spends dazed from power lock you spend 2 seconds charging Mantra of Distraction.
Scepter #1 – a particularly low damage auto attack which only has the side effects of spawning clones. In addition to clone spawning being something one generally wants to do at certain times and not at others, the clones it spawns don’t even share the same attack pattern. Worse, it’s the only 1h ranged option on the class even though it’s such a niche weapon.
iMage – It deal low damage, it attacks slowly, and it applies a single stack of a low damage condition and a fairly weak boon. Staff, sword, and greatsword clones with shaper image are more useful for damage. It’s on the longest cooldown we have for a phantasm too so it’s not even good for shatter fodder.

The more time I spend trying to come up with a build I like, the more I hate the talent tree for its plethora of weak abilities and awful arrangement. Why is precision in a separate talent line from crit damage? Why are the talents for rifle, the weapon that inflicts the fewest conditions of everything we can equip, in the condition damage line while grenades aren’t? Why on earth would I care about a 1 in 33 chance to change an incoming condition into a boon?
I really want to like the class, but I don’t think I’ll be playing it anymore until it gets examined.