I actually think that doorbreakers are best at the start and here’s why:
There are only 2 starting guards and they’re pretty weak. If you do all doorbreakers, you can send 1 person to take them out quickly and then rejoin the main fight. If someone on the opposing team comes to defend, you can usually still take out the guards. I found I was able to pull this off with a hammer/GS zerk build that was similar to Hambow. More than 1 defender is really the only counter to this.
Risk/Reward:
If this works, you get the first door down. If no one from the enemy team defends, then the wall goes down very fast and you’re able to meet back up without much delay (especially with mobile classes). If this fails, it’s generally because the enemy spent 2 people to defend and even then you usually can get at least 1 guard down.If you send only archers with no one to attack, then one defender on the enemy team can easily intercept them and skills like Wall of Reflect are a hard counter to them.
Risk/Reward:
If this works, you get the guards down and maybe some damage on the wall before someone notices, but that’s only if the enemy team has no one defending. You may get a bit extra momentum by having more people on the field, but still have to take down that first wall. If this fails, then you still have the wall and possibly both guards left alive.It’s possible I’ll change my opinion on this after more play, but so far this has been my experience.
Your strategy assumes that the enemy NEEDS two people to beat you, though. If they are fighting at the gate you’re fighting an enemy player plus two guard NPCs while trying to prevent your doorbreakers from being wasted. The enemy has the advantage over you, and if they fail to win it’s either because you have the stronger dueling build or are a better player. The reverse is also possible. A few archers can at least neutralize the guards.
Of course I found I was able to do as you described when we ran doorbreakers at the start. I was able to easily kill the guards while fighting off enemy players without dying. But that’s because the enemy players seemed to want to defend with bunker builds, which just didn’t have the damage to pressure me. In the future I’m sure the players will be defending with competent dueling builds or burst builds that you won’t be able to easily shrug off.
As I said, each time this method was tried also resulted in the enemy securing mid, which lead to more pressure in the enemy lane during the mid game. I was always pushing the aggressive lane solo/with a partner, though, so I can’t say for certain what our defenders were doing to be losing as badly as they were. Two of those five games the door didn’t even go down as the guy running with the NPCs mysteriously vanished (Got ganked hard) and had their NPCs slaughtered before they could hurt the guards.
It was just aggravating that no one wanted to TRY a new strategy. The game mode was out for a few hours and everyone thought they had it mastered. Once I got some groups that would try different methods we ended up winning more matches than losing.
You guys are misunderstanding what I mean by the gate defender turret engi ^^ His job is not to kill bombers/heroes, that is for the peelers and treb players. The turret engi simply turtle-necks in and out of the gate door and abuses the kitten out of his ever-cycling knockdowns and knockbacks to stall any and all actions made near that gate. This is also extremely heavy support when the peelers show up to help defend while the opponents are stuck in a state of perpetual CCs. Not to mention the water fields and blast finishers launched from the turret engi “which significantly enough, heals NPCs”
The idea is that the turret engi is the one class that can do all of this from behind a gate/door and rarely needs to risk dying.
Why are you fighting enemies right by the door? The peelers will have to leave the turrets to attack you if you choose to not fight in the turret’s range, making the engineer a non-issue. At best the turret engineer allows the peelers to kill a group of NPCs before they start getting sniped by long range attacks.
Since Stronghold doesn’t revolve around tiny circles the staff elementalist is also in a far better position as they can freely kite and use terrain to make them less doomed if attacked, which makes them more viable. A single Meteor Shower can wipe out the entire batch of turrets with one go. With the environment of Stronghold favoring the staff over daggers you’re bound to see far more staff elementalists roaming around than in Conquest, which means the turret engineers will get stamped out by their natural predator.
:O Have you killed the lord by yourself and won? They aren’t faceroll targets. They are hard to kill.
I saw a mesmer do it. It is possible – but that was because no one thinks much about defending and left him/her alone to do it.
I think the Lord needs to be slightly faster. Hes so sluggish that kiting him is way too easy. I mean a Quaggan puts up a better fight.
Soloing the lord room is possible. I did it on my spirit ranger, but it was only because the enemy team was trying a five man rush while my team held them off in a 5v4 as I did it. The enemy didn’t try to stop me as they seemed to think I wasn’t capable of being a threat alone. Won the match. It was great.
I think that should remain possible, to be honest. If you actively allow someone to sit in your lord room uninhibited you should lose the game. Plus it leads to quite the satisfactory victory. A sort of “I AM A BEAST!” moment as you spike the lord all by your lonesome and win the game for your team.
Yeah these stronghold builds are turning out very different than conquest. A good comp seems to look like this so far:
- 2 offensive pushers with AoE nukes – they won’t need peeling power
- 1 main peeler who is unstoppable like a GS/Sword warrior or a S/D Thief
- 1 supply runner/doubles as 2nd peeler – Mesmer with portal is best
- 1 gate defender – Turret Engi looks to be the best
Scratch Turret engi off the list.
Turret engi is best as supply runner because they can leave turrets at mid and then continue running supplies. However, Shoutbow does a better job at that.
Defenders should be a zerker build because they can kill enemy creeps really fast before they do any damage to the door.
Indeed. Turret engineers are really poor defenders from what I’ve seen as any half decent attacker can just kite the guards away from the turrets, completely invalidating the entire build. After that the turret engineer then has to spike down the doorbreakers which is… Unlikely.
You want high damage output for defenders and high sustain for attackers.
I prefer your strategy over the “spawn only doorbreakers” strategy everyone was insisting was the optimal way to play. Out of the 20 something matches I played this strategy was forced on me five times, and each time it ended in a loss because the very person who suggested it would always NOT protect the doorbreakers and just… Run off.
It was getting ridiculous. No one would even consider listening to my strategy of starting with archers so they’d take out the guards while we as a team secure mid. When PVPers think they got it all figured out they can get depressingly stubborn about it.
What seemed to work best was spawning three archers and two doorbreakers at the start. The archers would take out the guards pretty quickly and the doorbreakers would destroy the wall reasonably fast if all was left unattended. The enemy had to give up a guy to block our initial NPCs to stop the first wall from being taken, which usually secured a win at mid and thus control of the supply.
I agree that it needs to be it’s own queue, but as a solo player I’d still like a solo queue for it as well. Just make it so that you can’t enter the solo queue with a PUG and all would be dandy. I seem to recall joining a PVP match as a group use to just guarantee you’d be in the same match, not the same team. Just do that.
I PUGed this map half the day and had a blast. It was only when we hit an actual premade that it became insufferable.
Mobility is incredibly important in any form of warfare that doesn’t involve sitting on a point you know your enemies will have to attack sooner or later.
I disagree. My zerker staff elementalist was able to obliterate enemy NPCs from high ledges and overlooks. The lack of tankiness wasn’t very hard to deal with because of the gate portals that can be used to escape enemy bursts. You can also nuke things on the other side of the wall by casting your AoEs on the wall, so you can pretty easily kill the doorknockers without even stepping into your enemy’s view.
Also the vapor form trick that we do in WvWvW with the gate portals? It works here too.
I don’t see a lot of staff eles or scorpion wire thieves and scorpion wire is bugged and just does knockdown sometimes lol
Trust me, you WILL see a LOT of staff ele’s in this mode. It’s already a great build, but in this mode, it’s just insanely strong:
- AoE Heal your NPC’s
- Nuke down doorbreakers that ball up like crazy
- Stability for channeling
- General AoE Buffs for NPC’s
- Very good at killing treb
- insanely strong against builds like Turret-Engi’sThe biggest disadvantage of the build IMHO was, that he only is really strong in teamfights, because then, a lot of his defensive and offensive AoE doesn’t go to waste. In this mode, you have NPC’s around you at so many locations, that you’ll always find a place to fully utilize the build.
I can vouch for this. I played a match against some engineers using a similar tactic described by the original poster. I dropped a Meteor Shower in their turret cluster and destroyed them all with the one spell. Being forced to fight on a point was the only thing keeping the staff elementalist from being seen more often. Here there are tons of places to perch and rain down fire from the sky. Plus gate portals which elementalists can run through with their downed state’s vapor form, meaning you can’t finish them until the door is down.
Meanwhile turret engineers didn’t seem to make very good gate guardians either. I used my ranger to pull the guards away from their turrets and killed them in front of the engineer, who could only look on helplessly from the safety of their iron cocoon. Then the engineer didn’t have the damage output to kill the doorknockers before the gate was down. At least not while they had regen from my healing spring.
I agree. I’d rather the game end in a stalemate than win by having points that I didn’t even notice were there until the timer pointed them out. Having the lords charge each other in a blaze of glory would be an epic finale to a drawn out slugfest of a match.
Support/Control builds seem to synergise better with the offensive lane htan the defensive lane. In the defensive lane you really need something that can force a player off an npc or spike down a door breaker before its guard gets to you.
I wish id known that on my first playthrough haha.
Once I accepted that and took my necro to fight in hte offensive lane I found that it practically devoured most of the people/guard combos I fought due to being able to apply constant pressure without having to peel off. Worked out pretty well for me from then on.
I’ve found this to be true as well. My zerker staff elementalist did really poorly in the offensive lane but dominated the defensively lane, but my spirit ranger was much better on the offensive lane than defensive.
I like it. It makes sense you’d take a strong, healing set up to lead troops into battle but use a powerful, tactical strike set up when defending yourself.
In all my games the best team I had was my spirit ranger and a backstab thief working together in the offensive lane. I kept the NPCs alive with my healing and gave the enemies something to hit while he ran around taking people out when needed. Though to be fair my opponents were really bad in that game. They kept focusing me and ignoring the thief ganking them.
I played mostly spirit ranger for this map using axe/warhorn and shortbow. I dominated the offensive lane more often than not as my sustain was high enough to ignore the enemies while I killed the guards around them. Ended up clearing most of the guards myself using this strategy with one run until the enemy finally called in support from their teammates.
Also, river drake is borderline OP on this map. Lightning Breath can easily dispatch a pair of guards when used in conjunction with pressure from the ranger himself.
At one point I won the game for my team by soloing the entire lord room by myself, just me, my spirits, and my drake. The enemy longbow ranger came in at the last second but failed to prevent my stomp. His point blank shot hit one of my spirits, it was great.
I’ve also found the build highly effective defensively as well. All the NPCs benefit from the spirits, but most importantly is Spirit of Nature. It can be used to instantly rally a downed lord, restoring him to half health. That is a game changing ability.
I had a blast. Played a bunch of games solo, then played some games with guildies. I did well with builds that didn’t do so hot in Conquest that I’d always wanted to succeed with and did great. And the level of strategy involved is very fun. I like having so many objectives to shift my focus constantly as I play.
One thing I noticed is having a defensive bunker build in your defense lane seems like a poor strategy. In almost every map I took my spirit ranger up the offensive line and killed all the guards WHILE dancing around the turret engineer/bunker guardian/bunker warrior. Turret engineer was the easiest because all I had to do was pull away the guards and kill them away from the engineer’s kill zone. Without the ability to heavily pressure your opponent you won’t do that well as a defender as you can’t really protect the guards, you can only kill the players/NPCs that come after you. To this end I found my zerker staff elementalist to be fantastic at this role as he could nuke entire groups of NPCs in a few seconds.
Meanwhile a defensive build in the offensive line worked best for me. I was able to kill the guards while out-sustaining other players who were trying to defend them, meaning I was both full-filling my objective while holding the attention of one or two enemies simultaneously. I was also able to provide solid healing support to my NPCs to let them last longer.
I don’t care for the timer, though. I only saw a couple matches end because of the timer, but one was especially jarring. I had finished killing all the NPCs guarding the enemy Lord and the enemy had just failed their own lord push with our lord in downed state. We rallied the lord and prepared an offense, it was anyone’s game. Then DING! Time’s up, blue team wins. Anti-climactic ending to such a close game.
Only bug I came across was the channel for the heroes not showing up for some reason. This actually cost me two games as I could’ve summoned the lord unopposed if I had the prompt to start the channel when it should have been available.
Anyone try turret engi on defense yet? It’s hilarious. Set up your turrets in a spread out formation (to avoid AOE cleave) and sit near the gate with rifle. Put thumper turret right in the path of the npcs so it tanks/KDs/snares them. If you get low on hp, pop behind the gate to get your heal off safely.
You can safely hold off 2-3 players + npcs like this.
Yah, I saw a turret engineer literally doing nothing and killing all the NPCs that came her way. She just stood there.
However I was able to work around her by pulling the guards away from her and killing those. She was helpless to stop me. With the guards dead it didn’t seem like she could kill the breakers fast enough, and when the gate opened she couldn’t stop us from walking through.
This would definitely help and maybe allow people to run with a single spirit by only using the adept tier trait instead of being forced to use the master tier spirit as well. Being able to cast them while in combat limits the need for them to follow you.
Bumping this thread because I am noticing a similar issue.
I noticed that the heals from this skill just don’t appear in the combat log for some reason. In order to actually see the healing done I had to turn off every passive heal effect and avoid using my main heal entirely.
It’s pretty annoying to not be able to see how strong this heal was without going to such an extreme. In the end it was around 2K with a Cleric’s amulet and 6 in BM.
Spirit Ranger might make a comeback if the NPCs benefit much from spirits. From what I’ve seen when you’re in the aggressive lane you usually have a posse of a few tengu archers at your back. Each tengu archer would be applying burning to the enemy while gaining protection themselves. Maybe add spirit of water so they are all producing heals too, though I imagine Healing Spring will remain the ideal group heal.
A cleric’s BM build might be good for the aggressive lane too. It’s a decent 1v1 set up and puts out a lot of strong regen and small heals to keep the NPCs alive, while also providing near perma swiftness to the group. Meanwhile the hard hitting pet plus tengu archers will keep the enemy on the defensive the whole fight.
I get what you’re saying. Foefire is the least interesting map to me. However it’s seen by many as the most “fair” so it will always get the most votes.
Only way to change that is to change people’s thoughts about the other maps. Not going to happen.
At the very least this method allows us the rare chance to play a map we find enjoyable.
This looks amazing! I can’t wait to play it myself.
My current build has two blast finishers, two leap finishers, and two projectile finisher skills.
That being said I would love it if Entangle became a blast finisher. I already run it, which means I’d be up to three blast finishers. My only regret is the lack of more fields.
Yes I’m missing out quite alot post pet damage nerf.
I used to be a celestial beastmaster ranger before they nerf the pet’s dps to the ground.
Now no matter how hard I try, the pet is so slow in doing anything.It takes quite abit of time for pet to reach enemies. By the time they hit anything, I already killed my target with rapid fire and maybe some additional AA.
Even when they does reach it, their damage is no-where compare to my regular zerk ranger with weapons other than Axe m-hand. It just doesn’t worth the time to wait until pet does anything constructive. It gets even worse when you consider the pathing issue of pets.Might? Yeah the only situation you may do more damage is when it takes more than 20 seconds to kill 3 targets, while you hit all 3 targets with your Axe’s AA while sharing might with your DRAKE. (who’s also hitting 3 targets)
However, if I’m fighting a group of enemies, it’s better off I just use Barrage + piercing arrow to kill all 5 enemies at once while my pet tank the damage.
What enemies are you fighting that all stand in a perfect line and don’t even try to avoid your Rapid Fire? Are you playing against people without hands?!
Anyway, the pet isn’t suppose to do zerker longbow damage. That would be ridiculous. What it can do is pressure enemies who are trying to line of sight your longbow or use a control skill to help you line up your shot so you don’t miss, or peel enemies off you with a fear.
In Beastmaster builds the pet again isn’t going to instantly burst someone down. It will, however, do high sustained damage while you get to wear the tankiest gear you can get your hands on to survive. With a few well placed control skills you can help your pet kill the enemy while outlasting the enemy by playing defensively.
I had a thread in the past that had my points but It got deleted, Not making excuses but I figured at this point of time, much of the ranger community would surely noticed a lot of Pet AI problems already, but okay I will list them again.
Pet Pathing
a.) When you jump off a ledge like In Spirit Watch or Skyhammer, your pet takes the longer route to follow you, This isn’t a problem when your OOC but when you are in combat, this sucks and just swapped, this sucks.
b.) Pets for some reason have a hard time sticking to their target, especially melee pets. If the target is moving and kiting, the pet like cats will barely able to catch up. You can say I can cripple them, but all I’m saying is that, why would you need to do an extra effort just to make them hit more often?
Pet Skills/Pathing
a.) Drakes f2: If the target just moves an inch away from the drake, it will cancel its f2, and put it on cd, wasting it.
b.) leaps f2: target can just move away negating this completely (this one not really an AI issue just a design issue)
Passive/Aggressive Bug
and so on,.
Again speaking as someone that runs BM builds I wanted to throw in my two cents.
a.) I agree. It’s silly that my pet can’t follow me. This is especially harmful on the Khylo map where jumping from a window position toward the point causes my pet to run all the way around the entire building, leaving me without my primary offense for a solid 10-15 seconds. This is CRIPPLING for my build and is one of the biggest obstacles to overcome. It can be fixed with a pet swap, but forcing my pet swap on a cooldown just for jumping over a ledge is almost as bad.
b.) I actually disagree here. Crippling and timing your crowd controls to land the pet burst is part of the skill necessary in playing a pet focused ranger. I certainly want them to be more responsive. The cast time on F2 skills is far too long and pets who offer buffs shouldn’t charge the enemy before casting them. Pets should have less of a cast time on their attacks so they can hit faster. But pets shouldn’t be able to stick to an enemy scoring hit after hit without player input. It’d just turn us into the next turret engineers. The reason turret engineers are so hated is because their turrets just need to be dropped and immediately do all the engineer’s work. What makes our pets a more acceptable form of PVP AI is that the pet needs constant input from the player in the form of commands and control skills to get the most out of them. That is a proper way to build a pet class. The pet can’t be a threat without the commander.
… Though it’s not uncommon for my pet to chase down an enemy and finish them off while I’m capturing a point as is. It’s hilarious when it happens. One mesmer tried to retreat with 25% health left and ended up getting downed and finished by my raven.
I’d also like a Tropical Bird miniature.
Many of you are confusing ineffective builds with hard builds, staff zerker ele is exceptionally easy, do not think otherwise simply because it dies fast. Also true of many other builds
How is it exceptionally easy?
because as a zerker staff ele your damage comes from a few set of skill (lava font, metor shower, ice spike, earth 2) and all it requires is you putting your mouse on the opponent and being as far away as possible. Not much more to it than that
Is that all you do as a zerker staff ele? Because if so you’re vastly under-utilizing your skills.
Rotation is important as you can be providing might to your team while dishing out that damage. Another huge part of the playstyle is AoE crowd control with Frozen Ground and Static Field to trap enemies in the kill zone and mess up their rotations with chill. Even Unsteady Ground can be useful for stacking cripple if you drop it in the center of the point as the enemies will have to run across it multiple times if they want to avoid leaving the point and remaining mobile. Then there’s tactical placement of your water fields to help deal with enemy condition pressure on your allies and letting your allies blast said water fields for more heals.
This is all ignoring when the enemy eventually notices you. At that point the skill requirement exponentially increases. You have to vastly out play your opponent to win a 1v1, and you have to be very good at timing your cantrips, dodges, crowd controls, and Burning Retreat to survive pressure long enough for your team to peel.
Aside from the raw mechanical requirements you also have to be really good at placement and map rotation to be effective. Where you are when you begin casting is extremely important, as well as what fights you choose to jump in on.
Yes… God forbid a Drake’s F2 and Tail Swipe hit harder with a 25/30 second cooldown if traited for.
That in itself isn’t a problem. The problem comes in when the ranger is wearing full soldiers or clerics gear and is putting out those kinds of numbers through their pet with absolutely no investment on the ranger’s part, as all the traits and stats needed are attached to said pet.
While I love the idea of traits for the pet I have to admit it’d be a bit tedious to change the builds each time I change to a different pet combo. While you could theoretically have each pet have a saved build that is extremely unlikely. Anet doesn’t even have the data storage space to save all our pet NAMES, much less entire builds.
I feel Heimskarl’s idea would work best. Allow the player to choose the stat loadout and one of the traits he listed that change the pet’s stats. That’s all the customization you really need.
A River Drake with zerker stats and Pet’s Prowess would be legitimately overpowered. With my BM build it’s F2 already hits for around 4-6K damage with a 3K Tail Swipe. All multi-target skills. With zerker stats I could see it breaking 10K with it’s F2 easily, then following up with a 7K Tail Swipe.
Whos complaining?
Also your wolf argument… Wolf and dog are the best pets in pvp.. How bout the others? LOL.
Also, yes druid will change the way we interact with pets BUT the main point here is AI scripting not interaction.
So…. Change how we interact pets without changing AI issues…problem stays the same.
Druid uses his pet to perform a new mega cool skill…but wolf cannot stick to the target…attack goes on cd without you getting to use it…
Except we don’t know if they are going to change the AI or not. Besides that, the staff could also have some solid control effects to guarantee the pet lands said new mega cool skill. I run a beastmaster build with decent success rather often, and I can say with certainty that we have enough control effects and slows to line up a pet burst as is. The only reason it isn’t meta is because you have to work a lot harder to get that burst than other options.
As for pets that are useful aside from the two main canines, the list is actually pretty long. Wolf/Drakehound are the meta pets to take because every build can benefit from strong crowd control effects, but that doesn’t mean other pets can’t fit into other builds.
Jungle/Black Widow Spiders: Obviously these. They are also meta viable pets thanks to their long ranged immobilize and long ranged attacks. They also hit far more consistently than other pets because they are ranged. No set up needed. They are especially common with condition and trapper builds because the immobilize holds the person still long enough to stack conditions, but they can also be used as an alternative to the drakehound in the Read the Wind build.
Birds – The birds do great damage, and the fact they are so small means the enemy might not notice them until they’re already getting hit. Birds also provide their own swiftness so they can hit the target more reliably to keep up pressure. Very good for high defense builds as it helps make up for the damage loss. Of the birds the owl is especially strong because it applies chill with it’s F2 burst, and is a common choice for perma chill builds. Ravens also apply Blindness which can be useful.
Felines – Again a high damage pet that can be used to keep up sustained pressure for tankier builds. The jaguar is most common because it can use stealth so the enemy won’t see the pet coming to avoid the initial burst. Snow leopard is also popular for the chills.
River/Marsh Drakes – Very tanky pet that can survive team fights pretty easily. It has cleave too, which makes it nice for group fights. It’s F2 can do a lot of damage to an enemy team because of the bouncing blasts, and since the F2 is ranged it’s a bit easier to land. Drakes also use Tail Swipe as an opener, which is a blast finisher. This means that they can be used as a free blast finisher in your water field for an extra heal if you time it right.
Then you have the moa pets that provide buffs. I’ve not used them much but I’m sure someone has.
That just leaves porcines, bears, and devourers as the “useless” pet families. Even then I know the Siamoth is used on rare occasion because it’s forage ability will give you an item that does AoE blind and gives you 3 seconds of stealth or an item that gives you ALL boons in the game at once. There’s definitely value there, but the unpredictable nature makes it undesirable.
Monks are basically a Human only thing… thats why Cleric would definetely be the better choice.
How are Monks a human only thing?
Monks in the GW universe don’t get their power from worshiping but being attuned to one of the Bloodstones.
This is true. Even the charr had monks way back in Prophecies. They weren’t even a rare thing, charr monks were as common as any other class.
Just throwing this out there. If you find the wolf’s fear and knock down to be useless you’re not playing the ranger right.
At any rate, we don’t know anything about the druid yet. We don’t even know how much specializations will change the class mechanics, or if you HAVE to have the specialization weapon equipped or not.
Aside from the fact Anet is improving the game’s AI the druid specialization could completely revamp how we interact with our pet. For all we know the staff skills will be a bunch of spells to buff and command our pets to give us substantially more control over them.
It’s silly to complain about the druid specialization before we even know what it does.
By disabled it means when the pet is hit by a crowd control. So if you have this trait and the enemy tries to use a knockback the pet will get stability.
It can be pretty useful to avoid people knocking your pet away when it’s using Lick Wounds.
From reading this thread it seems to be Anet could fix underwater combat with three steps.
First is to introduce more than three underwater weapons. Every profession needs at least two possible weapons for power and condition oriented builds. Giving a profession a condi heavy underwater set forces the player to never use a power build or risk death in the ocean.
Some ideas for new underwater weapons:
Knives: Mainhand or Offhand weapons using the same skins as daggers. Any profession that can use daggers can get knives for an underwater alternative. Knives can thematically be either condition heavy or power heavy depending on what the profession is lacking.
Hooks: Mainhand weapons used for slashing and gripping things underwater. Could be the equivalent to swords or maces for underwater use.
Conch-shells: Underwater equivalent to horns. Support weapons held in the offhand.
Nets: Fishing nets used to trap and control enemies. Heavy control weapon with some conditions on the side. Held in the offhand.
The second step would be to go through and give every skill that can’t be used underwater the Tornado treatment. Tornado is an elite that turns into Whirlpool when used underwater. I don’t know why Anet didn’t do this with all the skills that can’t be used underwater, but they should have. This would also give traits that effect things that don’t work underwater more functionality.
The third step is simply allowing people to stomp while underwater. That eliminates the Ranger’s ability to live forever and makes finishing someone underwater less frustrating. When going for the stomp I’d favor having the attacking player character strangle their victim, thus holding them in place so they can’t float away, and ending it by ramming the stomp pole through their skull.
Bottom line is your build has to still be functional underwater. No one wants to buy an entirely different set of gear just for when they jump into a pond.
This is something I run a fair bit in SPVP when I don’t feel like running a meta build. I keep in axe/warhorn more often than not and maintain around 10-15 might stacks on myself and 20-25 on my pet, which combined with 4 points in beastmastery and Pet’s Prowess means my pets tend to hit like a truck. Celestial amulet for well rounded stats. All the might makes the burning from the Sun Spirit do fairly consistent damage to keep up the pressure, plus bleeds from Splitblade. I have permanent fury uptime on myself and my pets as well, which just increases the damage. Pirate runes for the parrot who helps keep up additional pressure. Entangle is for a burst of bleeds and to keep the enemy in place long enough to set up a solid burst from my pet. Between Muddy Terrain, Intimidation Training, and Winter’s Bite my enemy is slowed down more often than not. The greatsword also gives Crippling Throw and Hilt Bash, though I mostly have it for the mobility and the block. Lining up for a sudden guaranteed Maul crit with 15 might stacks on me also isn’t too bad, usually hits for a 3K cleave.
Healing Spring provides a ton of condi removal and great healing, especially when combined with Call of the Wild and the River Drake’s Tail Swipe. If I time it all right I can usually get three AoE heals out of one skill, plus the regen and the AoE fury for myself, my pets, and my team. The Sun Spirit further provides team support by giving everyone a chance to proc burning, including my pets. Between Call of the Wild and Swoop I also have really good out of combat mobility.
Not all traits are set in stone. I’ve been playing around with Agility Training over Companion’s Might to see how much more consistently my pets can hit the enemy. So far I’m not sure it’s worth sacrificing the speed that I stack might on my pet, though. I may also try playing around with taking Nature’s Bounty over Spirits Unbound. It means I won’t be able to bounce from fight to fight with my spirit active like I usually do, but it’d give me access to much longer regen and improve my survivability.
I may also see about taking Spirit of Nature over Entangle and see how effective that is. I have my doubts though. Entangle is a pretty strong move to keep an enemy in place long enough for my pets to kill them. I also sometimes run with Rampage as One when I feel I’ll need stability, plus it’s a damage boost for my pet.
So far it’s an acceptable dueling build and I’ve been able to put out decent support in team fights. It doesn’t have the same offense as say, Read the Wind builds do, but I’m able to fight on point effectively and don’t have to give it up to the first warrior that comes along.
There are a lot of viable builds that aren’t “meta”. Meta builds are just what top tier teams happen to be using at the time. It doesn’t mean you can’t find success with anything except those builds.
play ‘ranked’ —> problem solved
This is the correct answer.
There’s virtually no difference between the two except three maps people don’t like.
No difference except ~10 minutes in queue times! You can literally queue unranked, find a Skyhammer/Spirit Watch/Courtyard game, AFK the match, leave the game, queue again, and find another game on a real map all before one ranked queue pops! I think I’ll take that option!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Yeah I guess I will continue to run around those maps without fighting just to avoid the penalty.
Don’t throw a fit just because you didn’t get your way. Actually play the map just like I do every time Foefire is selected.
No thanks.
Grats on being a whiny baby then, I guess.
I’m ranger and i dislike the pet mechanic, but i loved the necro minion master. Especially with his mass of minions. I play my necro as minion master, but with the ai and the bad minion traits
So i would like to see a minion master specialization or an improvement for the current necros minions.
Or perhaps a ranger specialization that gives us pet utilities similar to necro minions so we can have a pack of beasts at our command? I’d personally love that if the AI was efficient enough to make it effective.
play ‘ranked’ —> problem solved
This is the correct answer.
There’s virtually no difference between the two except three maps people don’t like.
No difference except ~10 minutes in queue times! You can literally queue unranked, find a Skyhammer/Spirit Watch/Courtyard game, AFK the match, leave the game, queue again, and find another game on a real map all before one ranked queue pops! I think I’ll take that option!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Yeah I guess I will continue to run around those maps without fighting just to avoid the penalty.
Don’t throw a fit just because you didn’t get your way. Actually play the map just like I do every time Foefire is selected.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_GS_Axe/Shield_Roamer
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_GS_S/x_Roamer
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Hammer/GS_Roamer
Most of the warrior roamer builds for WvWvW are pure melee. The ONLY reason why the longbow is used in conquest so heavily is because it’s F1 skill can cover the entire point and the weapon can spam generate might making the melee attacks even stronger. Pure melee on a warrior is completely viable and pretty strong, it’s just that the ability to consume the ENTIRE point in your AoE while building AoE might for your team and curing conditions off you is really powerful in that game mode.
Nerf the longbow’s damage radius or ability to reliably remove conditions and I’m sure you’d see a rise in hammer/mace warriors who can stunlock someone for eternity or hammer/greatsword burst builds with strong crowd control.
So to sum it up, GW2 is still a melee heavy game. The longbow is just too good at stacking might and curing conditions while keeping enemies off the point.
Here are some traits that would greatly improve ranger if they were a baseline attribute of the profession.
Agility Training – Pets should move 30% faster baseline. If the enemy wants to kite your pet they should actually have to use cripples and other slow effects to do it. It’d also make the pet’s F2 far easier to line up.
Trapper’s Expertise – The ability to place traps strategically is vital, and if traps had a baseline larger radius it’d make them more appealing to use in other builds. I’d love to use spike trap or frost trap in a long range power build to keep enemies away but it’s just unlikely the enemy will run into the trap unless I stand right in the middle of it and let them hit me.
Expertise Training – Not all the pets, but at least the ones that rely on condition damage should actually have a condition damage stat. As is pet damaging conditions only serve to get in the way of another player’s conditions. Maybe the devourer pets would be useful if they could apply ranged bleeds that had some bite to them. Or you could just give some of them condition damage and keep this trait, thus allowing us to double up on condi damage pets to get a strong result. While this may result in a “passive cheese” build where the pet applies all the damage, pets are pretty easy to kill so it wouldn’t be without counter.
Vigorous Spirits – Spirits die way too fast baseline and are almost pointless to take when their chance to proc their effect is only 30%. With a baseline 70% proc chance and more health spirits could be useful in any build, even if they weren’t the focus. I could see a straight condi ranger taking sun spirit for the burning, or a regen bunker ranger grabbing stone spirit for the protection. It’d also let people take other traits in place of this one when setting up a spirit build. Nature’s Bounty or Nature’s Protection come to mind.
Compassion Training – Again if a pet has a certain type of skill they should have the stats to use it. Sylvan hounds and moas should already have healing power. You could replace this trait with… Another trait of the same name and function! Allowing a player to invest in this and Invigorating Bond to turn their sylvan hound or moa into a powerful healbot. That would sure be interesting. “FOCUS THAT MOA! It’s healing the enemy team!”
To be honest powerful AoE attacks should be a hard counter to heavy AI builds, by which I mean minion mancers, turret engineers, and mesmers. The problem is only two of these three professions are able to CHOOSE whether or not they want to bring a build that revolves entirely around having minions. Mesmers should have some sort of damage option that isn’t completely reliant on phantasms.
Necro minions could stand to be a bit tougher, though. Either that or make their cooldowns when destroyed shorter so a necromancer, after losing all their minions, will only be at a massive disadvantage for 10-20 seconds instead of 30-40. Or shoot, you could do something like allowing them to spend Life Force to summon their minions despite being on cooldown. That way a necromancer can choose to take a chunk out of their life force pool to bring their minions back after the Meteor Shower ends.
Ranger pets are probably the biggest issue as far as AI goes, though. Rangers can’t choose to not have a pet and the pet is suppose to represent a chunk of their damage and utility. A lot of the problem here is that if a pet dies they’re punished severely for it even though it’s often out of their hands. Remove the downed pet penalty on pet swap and they’d be in a much more comfortable place.
Turret engineers… Are fine. Honestly turrets could stand to be a bit squishier if anything.
Really hoping they at least give a general idea of what each specialization aims for. I want to get a general idea of what sort of gear I should be trying to get to make my druid effective. Is the staff a power weapon? Conditions? A hybird maybe? Or is it a purely support tool? Any information would help a ton.
I don’t care how many new skins are added as long as ALL the new skins are crafted with care so that my tail won’t clip with the pants/coat. Charr have almost no variety because of this and that should change.
I’m tired of being forced to play Foefire three out of every five matches. Unfortunately I have to deal with it because that’s what the majority wants.
I don’t see a problem in letting the minority play a map they like on the rare occasion they actually get lucky.
Plus as the fellow above me said, play ranked and you’ll never see Skyhammer or Courtyard again. I’ve started playing unranked specifically to get access to those maps again.
I do miss this map. Underwater combat was actually a pretty fun change of pace.
Keep the water or remove it, either way it’d be nice to see that map again. Where else can we fight on a freaking pirate ship?!
I love this map. It’s a breath of fresh air from being forced to play Foefire over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
I really dislike Foefire, but the fact it seems to be a community favorite means I am forced to play it back to back almost constantly. Why is it so wrong I get to play a map I enjoy once in a while when I get lucky on the role? Especially when the map is only available in Unranked.
Frankly I’ve been considering leaving ranked PVP entirely because all the maps I find interesting aren’t “competitive”.
Criticizing a teammate will never yield positive results. Best case scenario all you’re doing is distracting them from their objective and making it more likely they’ll end up making mistakes during fights because they are busy trying to defend their choices from you. Worst case scenario well… This happens.
If you absolutely have to criticize you should begin dialogue with “Hey, can I offer you some advice?” That way you come off as someone who actually wants to help. Opening with “You’re bad” is just going to immediately put them on the defensive.
Granted it seems like he overreacted, but the whole situation could have been avoided if you hadn’t said anything. And looking at the scores you would’ve won.
The problem you’re making is you’re comparing two skills completely different from one another on wildly different weapons. You cannot balance like that. You have to look at the whole kit.
First of all, Hundred Blades can CLEAVE meaning it can do substantially more damage if you catch more people in it. This is untraited of course. A warrior using Hundred Blades can force multiple opponents off a point for it’s duration or otherwise do huge damage to enemies clumped together trying to revive/stomp someone. Just because two skills are burst skills does not mean they are directly comparable or should even be used in the same way.
Additionally while the ranger longbow enjoys a much greater range than the warrior greatsword the greatsword has a massive advantage in mobility. It’s one of, if not THE, fastest weapons in the game and can cover huge ground quickly. The longbow has absolutely no innate mobility, forcing the user to rely on a projectile based, and thus rather unreliable, stealth and a knockback. The greatsword also has way better AoE because of it’s cleaves in comparison to the ranger longbow which is almost entirely a single target weapon outside of Volley.
The final major difference is that a warrior has higher health and armor than a ranger at base and is more heavily tailored toward melee combat, which the main PVP format for this game heavily favors.
I have two level 80 rangers. My first was a sylvari ranger that is currently geared as a trapper. I made a second ranger for power builds which is a charr.
I don’t think I’ve ever used a ranger build that felt especially weak against mesmers, and I’ve used a fair few.
One of the biggest advantages you have is your pet. If you tell it to attack the mesmer it will always chase the mesmer, which makes finding out which is the real mesmer a thousand times easier. The pet also keeps up constant pressure and occasionally kills their clones on top of extra crowd control.
With the glassbow ranger you should hard counter mesmers with Rapid Fire, which will track them into stealth both doing massive damage and showing you what direction they are running. Volley more or less instantly kills all the mesmer’s clones and phantasms which immediately cuts down their damage output and postpones their burst. Then you have a snazzy stealth skill of your own for a breather. Enemy turns invisible? Just shoot one of their clones with it and turn invisible yourself, or save it for when you’re being pressured and you need a quick relocate.
I’m surprised you don’t see the benefit of the axe against a mesmer. You use the axe with either a pet build or a condition build. Either way a mesmer produces clones constantly as they fight, which guarantees you’ll get the maximum number of bounces every time. Playing a beastmaster ranger means your pet will be sitting with 25 might stacks for the entire fight, and the axe itself will be destroying the mesmer’s clones as your pet pursues and destroys the mesmer. A high damage pet can easily crit for around 7-9K with 2-3K auto attacks if you set it up right, which will rip through the mesmer’s meager defense.
My trapper ranger wins the majority of his fights. Sometimes it can be difficult if the mesmer’s clones set off my traps, but even then it’s stopping them from using a shatter on me which removes their primary damage output. Inevitably the bleeds from my shortbow will kill the mesmer. That’s assuming the mesmer plays it smart and never sets foot on point of course. Activating my traps tends to be their doom.
I imagine the druid will be a heavy support character. Ranger support has always been kind of lacking. Sure there are spirits, but that is a really boring build to play. Hopefully the druid specialization will enhance that aspect of the ranger class and make it more engaging to play.
As for the pet, I imagine a heavy support druid would be able to buff their pet as well as allies for their offense. Similar to your usual beastmaster build but hopefully more flexible.