Guild Wars 2

+1
Even though it won’t Change anything. I feel sorry for the time you spent.

Rezz.8019:

All devs I played with or against are very good at pvp. I don’t think a random community team would have much chance.

Either the level of NA-PvP is horribly low or you’re defnitely not an experienced player. Besides Powerr and Grouch, noone of them can be considered “good”.

Yeah, more ppl that don’t understand the game complain. And on the level of soloq you are even able to kill a guard in a 1v1.

DPS guards can be very effective. It’s just harder to pull off, than playing a braindead-specc like any sort of Warrior, Spirit ranger or decap-engineer. At least in the EU side there is still a really good dps-guard left.

Odeezee.7362:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Those were the high level changes, meaning we didn’t get into all the details for each profession (each and every # change), each weapon, each skill, etc. We were just trying to move through a lot of info in the Ready Up, so we didn’t get down into each and every # change for every class. That would be more of a detailed list you’d expect from game release notes for a release, for example.

Some of you have asked why we haven’t focused on fixing the issues already in the game. A lot of things have been fixed, but some concerns you guys have like with PW, HS, decap engi, etc. we decided to wait and see how the new traits will affect the meta.

This does not mean that we aren’t open to adjusting them.

Ultimately, we knew we wanted to add some more traits, so we wanted to focus on trying to make those good and then we can revisit them if they are still an issue. Does that make sense?

i do not envy your position and i know you do not design or balance the game, but this is the issue i have with the way the devs have tried to shake up the meta: some core mechanics and skills NEED to be changed and adding traits just compounds the problems and not alleviates them e.g. a warrior being able to chain 16-24 seconds of CC immunity as well as 8 seconds of complete condi immunity and that’s excluding Lyssa runes for a full condi clear and gaining every boon in the game in the process. an example of a good change is the change to Dhuumfire assuming all other professions with similar on-crit traits get changed to require more skillful play, otherwise it just shows general bias and inconsistency.

i have been waiting since before PAX for meaningful changes to the meta and we are still no closer. i hope that i am wrong and that the meta changes for the better, but i am not optimistic.

It will get worse, due to more buffing rather than debuffing classes (see ele), while things like hard-counters or immobilize stacking are getting throwed in the dark corner.

DPS-Guards are not in a bad spot either. And with the upcoming changes, they’ll get some more options.

Another couple of months while the 3 hard-counters (Berserker-Stance, Automated Response, Diamond-Skin) remain untouched. Besides some PvE-Changes and some more Powercreep, we won’t see anything going into the right direction concerning the state of balance.

GJ, hope something like that finds ist way into GW2!

So A-Net strategy is to create new possible balance-issues, before even fixing the old ones? I hope we get a good explanation in tomorrows Ready-Up.

this actually would make sense if thieves hadn’t such a kittened mechanic and the overall skill-animations would be clear.

another 2 months of nothingness incoming, great. So it will take A-Net to roll out a bigger patch every 6 months? Amazing.

Allie Murdock.8152:

If you knew the amount of players that actually played PvP in our game, then you would understand why a strawpoll with 300 votes is not sufficient.

If you count a player that only plays PvP for the AP’s and the daily towards the PvP-Population, than you’re probably right. Sorry but when queue-times are around 5-8 mins in soloq and above 8 minutes in teamq, I would never say 300 are not sufficient.

But yep, we all know that the development here ignores hard-facts . . .

infantrydiv.1620:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Just get a competitive balance, without passive kitten and unfun builds aka condi-warrior, decap-engineers or spirit-rangers. The game got totally unfun, since the dhuumfire-patch. Build a high skill-ceiling, make the game challenging instead of easy.

Yup. Game has got way worse. I hope staff ele doesn’t get buffed. It is more mindless AoE

Again, this thread is not about your views on class balance. Staff ele is not mindless, please take your opinions to the profession balance forum.

I just wanna show you, that not a new-gamemode, not a new map and not a new tournament-system will make more ppl play the game, and therefore will make the MMR any better.

Just get a competitive balance, without passive kitten and unfun builds aka condi-warrior, decap-engineers or spirit-rangers. The game got totally unfun, since the dhuumfire-patch. Build a high skill-ceiling, make the game challenging instead of easy.

Archaon.6245:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

I’m not just saying to wait for the feature build for no reason. The high rank players are getting way more rewarded than anyone.

I’ll remember this…i swear..just screened and waiting for those titanic rewards for old high rank players…

which will come in another form of useless pve-crap, I guarantee it.

Why A-Net keeps ignoring Balance-suggestions from the community (especially from players that have the knowledge) even though A-Net has definitely not the qualification to balance this game correctly?

Dahkeus.8243:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

As for later on when eles get buffed:
1) It depends on what buffs they get. Not all buffs will suddenly make 30 in the earth tree viable.
2) We have no idea whether they will nerf Diamond Skin at the same time, but the point has already been argued to death that it’s a badly designed trait. If ANet doesn’t get that by now, then dragging this argument out all over again now and beating on the same tired arguments won’t change anything.

When they start talking about what ele buffs are coming and whether diamond skin will change, there will be something worth talking about here. In the meantime, this is just serving as a springboard for people to rage against tired, unconstructive arguments.

Well, at least I TRY to draw the attention of A-Net into things that need to change.
If I wrote unconstructive feedback, than what are your “Point out to ppl, that noone plays ele, so this trait is perfectly fine”- Answers? Constructive?

Dahkeus.8243:

Well…it doesn’t affect the meta and it does fail right now.

This sentence just describes your high level of intelligence and your ability to think into the future . . . oh wait!
Now please do the majority a favour and stop derail this thread. Thanks

Good players indeed.
Good luck finding a good one

Archaon.6245:

seems i’m the only one still playing 0 0 10 30 30 with double shout and consecration u.u

i have to agree that skills needed to play bunker guardian (Or anything else btw) are not even comparable with skills needed to go monk in gw1 gvg\ha, you needed years to get to a good level with monk while here an average guardian can already be effective after one week, with ah even less cause all you have to learn is how to move and support teamfights..staying alive is not a problem with that

Sadly A-Net chose to vanish active-support and replaced it with heavy class-independence and passive play.

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

Dahkeus.8243:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

So…you’re saying it’s a good idea to bump a 3+ month old thread because you think that this trait that’s 30 points into the Earth tree will be overpowered after the ele gets some as of yet unspecified buffs from a balance patch that we know almost nothing about?

These forums are filled with threads beating dead horses. We really don’t need another dragged out of the graveyard right now.

It’s actually one of the most important things that have to change in this game: hardcounters. It’s not fun to play against and it doesn’t promote skillfull play. It doesn’t matter if it is overpowered or not.
So I don’t get why you bring up a sentence like “we really don’t need another thread dragged out of the graveyard”.

Poor balance is one of the top reasons why this game died pvp-wise. Why ignore it?

Jomo kenyatta.7351:

00103030 reqs still, standing on point spaming symbos staff 4 staff 2 and dodging as much as possible, AH ruined bunker guardian, and seriously with all these warriors why doesnt anyone take indomitable courage?? cause your all idiots basically you see some brain dead idiot pull off ah and think wow if he can do it anyone can, get real your not helping the team your just playing solo and occationally resing, no pre prot no active condi removal cept when you spam for yourself thats just bad game play.

Well, if we compare other MMO’s and their “Backline”, GW2 is way behind active support. That’s why Guardian is so easy to reach an effective level. It’s a joke if you compare it to any other Prott/Heal Class in most other MMO’s.

On an average level, the class is being played exceptionally poor. Well… in general GW2 promotes poor play, because the skill-ceiling of classes / builds is nearly not existing.

Diamond Skin – one of the worst recently introduced inventions from A-Net besides the immobilize-stack. They say they listen to the community, but I never really saw anyone suggesting such things . . . no excuses, just poor development.

Leeto.1570:

style.6173:

Leeto.1570:

Soloque takes no skill, team que takes no skill, 1v1 takes no skill. Why? Because no rewarards = no competition. But it does take skill to play good this game, good cooldown management and not wasting dodges do benefit you, but as there is no competition there is no point mastering the game cause it really doesnt matter if you are 1st or 100th on leaderboards.
If they add seasons + good rewards (arena gear sets for example), then people will actually put effort into playing better than others.
Maybe it does`nt take skill to kill newbies with warrior but it definetly takes skills to actually play the class good, otherwise soloque wouldnt be filled with these garbage warrs.

Saying it takes no skill currently is incorrect. Only the best player in the game at every class can make that claim. If for necro it is you, then point taken.

Where you are definitely correct is in saying that more people will increase the competition level. That is quite true and the reason we need as many new PvP people as possible. The new rewards are going to be key. If it just ends up being that we can get more PvE gear as a result of PvP, I’d consider that even worse than the current system.

Many “top players” are on top not because they are good but because they really want to be on top. 5 average players with good setup can grind their way to top but 5 pros who occasionally do few games wont get far because most of time they will only face bad teams.
Im not saying it doesnt take skills or anything, but if the game would be more competetive then many of todays “top players” would be alot lower.
There are still players in top 100 who random dodge around, waste skills while blinded/on blocks, doesnt know all crucial skills of other classes etc.
But current ranking system just doesnt force people to master their play.
Ofcourse people who are on top currently deserve to be on top, cause they put more effort into it than others but i am pretty sure that if anet fires up the competition then its highly possible that players who are better start to put effort into it and take away their ranks.

Correct! Many players on the top still don’t know major things about PvP (especially animations), because there is no pressure and no competition, which would motivate them to actually improve.

Archaon.6245:

I just stopped giving feedback, every single time i point out something i get my posts infracted….now seriously, since i’m probably a troll and i can’t understand, can someone please explain me where the actual reason for this infraction (The last one) is?

And screening this again because who knows…maybe they’re gonna remove this too..

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship

Your Game My Rules.5324:

AlKTN.3742:

Just remind this : “GW2 PvP is made for ESPORT”.

I hope you remember (anet staff) [WM], [DF], [rawr], [KMD], [KvZ] etcetcetc so much nice guilds and their legendary’s GvG.

Wtf is [KvZ] doing in this list?

Oh snap! Pretty epic to promote own guilds as legendary.

Haha… NA players

Rickster.8752:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Lager Points were alrdy suggested since the beginning. But you know, A-Net is A-Net, so things won’t change to a better.

To be honest 15 points per kill would really promote player vs player and discourage as much player vs point.

What good is that decap engi when you can kill him eventually and pick up those 15 points.

Really this would be so amazing for the game. I can’t believe they have never done it lol

Many things would be amazing in this game, and A-Net still develop mostly the complete opposite.

Lager Points were alrdy suggested since the beginning. But you know, A-Net is A-Net, so things won’t change to a better.

The skill on it’s own is not a bad design. The Problem lies on the mechanic of initiative and the fact you can literally spam it.

Forsaker.9213:

Drafigo.4690:

Forsaker.9213:

Justin ODell explain me how we the community can take u serious?

What we got since realese?
-broken leeder?
-broken solo que?
-power creep?
-no skill killing michine wars?
-no skill condi spam necros?
-no skill mm necros?
-no skill stealth mesmers?
-no skill zoo rangers?
-maps that are not even balanced?
-ton of bugs since reales w8 for fix till now?
-and more more more more more….
-broken matchmaking?

How? Tell me how? Company like anet can act like that , ignoring us the community , u dont listen to feedback . I playied a lot of diffrent games and this is 1st game when the crew responsible for balance/designe dont listen to feedback.Tell me how often u visit class forums? We had post from dev on necro forum few months ago , so until u dont start to respect us dont think we the community gonna respect u.

EDIT:
One more thing how can u even let in this game to chain CC? ITs not funny when u are stuned,dazed,feard,knocked,stun,dazed,imob,feard,knocked,dazed,stuned………………………………………………………………………………..

Great point at the end! Most games once you are hit with a type of CC you are immune for a few seconds. Great point!

man today in 1 game i got dazed-stuned-feard-imob in the same time , was realy fun

Lets be real game where team/company who is responsible for balance will never achive anything good when dont listen to feedback , thats why there are alfa/beta tests and here anet dont listen to us to it wont get better , so many games failed becouse of that and now GW2 gonna join them , the best thing is when they say " we have no recourse" , Devs i have a lot od wood from salvaging pvp items , i can give u if u want.

People got kicked out of the Alpha for saying negative things about the game, for e.g. future aspects that can turn into problems (especially concerning conquest).

Nowadays test-servers are offline. The development refuses to accept the fact, that they have no idea about their own game. Instead of getting help, they try so hard to get the turn-around (which obviously will result in more problems → see last patches).

The ignorance of A-Net was stated druing the Alpha couple of times, when it came down criticism from the testers. I mean look at the forum. Ignoring the community and do it their own way is just one of many points (see immobilize-stacking, dhuumfire etc.). Things never ever suggested get implemented into the game, while good suggestions from experienced players were left out.

Qeve.5743:

I like this thread.

So much ppl flaming about ele … its a weak class actually.

I play ele in the great team which beaten MTC aka Ventari, empa, oidmetala
everyone is whining about the cond meta so what to do???
Yea play an ele with diamond skin.

Btw: their mesmer do easily 6k+ dmg on me

And the post from ventari is wrong because we faced them with a dps guard/war/ele/necro … vs … necro/mesmer/war/ranger

So we dont play meta (we never did)

So far.

Qouve from I Love Lunch [BoX]

It’s still is a hard-counter and not in every single PvP-Game a positive thing. Same with AR and decap engi or berzerker-stance. Abuse it is your right, every team does that. But this doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic for the game itself.

silvermember.8941:

Diamond skin is a terrible trait. But Diamond skin isn’t the reason why you probably lost to an elementalist. This screams like a learn to play issue.

Getting the ele down to 90% is easier than blinking.

Diamond-Skin is a hard-counter and game-breaking, doesn’t matter if it’s a l2p issue or not (which is here definitely NOT the case, as ventari is one of the best necros, when not the best nowadays)

The Meta shifted towards more and more unfun builds to play and to play against. Even watch it is for me personally a pain. There is no big plays to observe, some good bursts or any other quality gaming we had a year ago. It’s just pure sustain and sustained damage, with many immunities and low-risk-high-reward-builds.

infantrydiv.1620:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Some personal notes from me:

Warrior: Besides healing-signet, zerker-stance has to be fixed, letting buffed condition-durations go through the stance minus the 100%.

Necromancer: PvP doesn’t need any more of these AI-builds. Please exclude minions in PvP.

Unfortunately I see almost zero chance of Arenanet removing minions at this point. But I think nerfing minion damage and buffing their utility would raise the skill floor on this build exponentially if it was done right, and you probably would stop seeing people putting full minions on their utility bar. That means less clutter and smarter play.

I see what you think about. However I’m very sceptical about this, as spirits also have an active ability, while, besides burning, don’t really deal damage and are mostly spammed (as they are delayed and dodges/blocks make it predict-based).

lf decent Team etc.

Some personal notes from me:

Warrior: Besides healing-signet, zerker-stance has to be fixed, letting buffed condition-durations go through the stance minus the 100%.

Necromancer: PvP doesn’t need any more of these AI-builds. Please exclude minions in PvP.

Dahkeus.8243:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Dahkeus.8243:

Take a look at the posts around here…

If I were the devs, I certainly wouldn’t be in any hurry to serve up any new content for the entitled jerks that believe it’s their right to constantly berate the company giving them free updates on their $60 game.

If I were a dev, I wouldn’t have an ounce of motivation to quickly provide additional content.

If I were a dev, I wouldn’t have an ounce of motivation to try to deliver truly high quality content.

Because at the end of the day, they only thing they’ll get in return from the community is more complaints and more finger pointing.

You will have a hard time in your future life, if this is your mental attitude.

Please, don’t try to spin my point into some armchair lecture/personal attack.

It’s a proven fact that you get better efficiency and higher quality work out of people who aren’t filled with entirely negative and toxic environment, which is pretty much what these forums have turned into.

While criticism that points out shortcomings is important, what we have here has gone way beyond that.

If you want a dev community that is highly inspired to give you the best game they can provide, you have to treat them like human beings. If you want them to keep you in the loop of communication, you have to be able to communicate in a mature manner.

If you decide to act like an entitled brat, you’ll just get treated like a kid.

Well, as working in the Management I can tell you that:

- if someone is not capable of doing his Job correctly he gets fired (well A-Net has not the option to do that with their low salaries)
- if a client is not content with a product/service, he has the right to complain
- if the product/service gets worse, even when the client made tons of suggestions and tips to improve it, then he has the right to complain

. . . etc. (hope you get the point freshman)

Noone here behaves like an “entitled brat”, People are just frustrated with the progress and the promises this game came with. This should be motivation enough to better the game and not to let off, as you said.

Dahkeus.8243:

Take a look at the posts around here…

If I were the devs, I certainly wouldn’t be in any hurry to serve up any new content for the entitled jerks that believe it’s their right to constantly berate the company giving them free updates on their $60 game.

If I were a dev, I wouldn’t have an ounce of motivation to quickly provide additional content.

If I were a dev, I wouldn’t have an ounce of motivation to try to deliver truly high quality content.

Because at the end of the day, they only thing they’ll get in return from the community is more complaints and more finger pointing.

You will have a hard time in your future life, if this is your mental attitude.

Archaon.6245:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

If we stop “whine”, A-Net would probably think what they’re doing is good.

Problem is that they actually think so even if ppl keep “Whining”

Because you know…everything’s fine, ppl are complaining for no reason, can’t you see how esportzz are we? xD

Haha. Made my day

If we stop “whine”, A-Net would probably think what they’re doing is good.

Justin ODell.9517:

@Sensotix.4106

We didn’t promise anything, we shared our high level road-map plans.

This is why we don’t like sharing dates. I know you’re waiting on things, and the wait is driving me crazy too, but saying we made promises when we clearly did not does not help get the content out sooner.

If you want greater transparency, like I do, then you must accept that dates, features, and plans are not a static promise. Things can happen to shift priorities, dates, or designs, causing things to changed, be pushed back, or accelerated.

Please stop.

/personal rant

A-Net told us the revamp of the reward-system will come dec. 2013. It was clearly described on the plans for the last year. So stop telling us you didn’t promise anything. I mean I like the fact that you’re the only guy with enough balls to answer on critical feedback, but then don’t try to defend the development and the work A-Net has done in 1.5 years. Especially when you had so much suggestions from the community to work with . . . and what we get are things like immobilize-stacking?

Sorry but the majority of the PvP-Community can’t take this company seriously anymore.

bhagwad.4281:

KarsaiB.9475:

bhagwad.4281:

My rabid condi mesmer with runes of the undead has no problem dealing with thieves. My zerker phantasm build can kill them too (depending on whether they get the drop on me though).

No one cares about your dumb wvw duelling spec, you’re in the wrong forum.

wvw? I don’t do that. What are you talking about?

this is not about 1v1 servers either… who the **** plays phantasm anyway, besides hotjoiners? god…

Chaith.8256:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Chaith.8256:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Your answer is the same as the two aboves, just more precise . . . (hope you realized that)

I’m ok with that! After talking with really good Mesmers and participating/watching a lot of tournaments I feel like what the two posters above me and I are saying is pretty close to reality, currently.

I’m aware of the fact that Mesmers have a hard time to deal with the meta (our core Mesmer rerolled to Thief too). Totally agree with you here.

Oh, lol. It appeared you were sarcastically saying that every Mesmer that has a hard time getting initiated’ on in teamfights by Thieves are low quality players.

I was pointing out with my sarcasm at the guy saying he everytime rerolls zerk-shatter when he faces a thief :P. Mabye he just trolled, dunno

one of many riddicolous speccs… but definitely on the top

High: When the first organized tournaments took place.
Low: Nearly everything, especially the downfall of the quality of balance.

Chaith.8256:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Your answer is the same as the two aboves, just more precise . . . (hope you realized that)

I’m ok with that! After talking with really good Mesmers and participating/watching a lot of tournaments I feel like what the two posters above me and I are saying is pretty close to reality, currently.

I’m aware of the fact that Mesmers have a hard time to deal with the meta (our core Mesmer rerolled to Thief too). Totally agree with you here.

Chaith.8256:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

OhMyTaeyeon.5831:

Paolo.1467:

Zerker thievs are the reason why i play zerk Shatter mesmer ^_-

Let me guess…you like playing in downstate?

^^ the quality of players posting here is amazing.

Top quality Shatter Mesmers DO spend a significant amount of time in the downstate vs. teams that properly execute D/P, S/P, ganks, or persistent, difficult to peel, S/D aggression.

It’s actually a pretty much a common theme amongst leading Mesmer mains to get so frustrated with Mesmer, roll Thief, and make attempts (some attempts more/less feeble than others) to compete with it.

Your answer is the same as the two aboves, just more precise . . . (hope you realized that)

38. The development – especially the balance team – has a perfect overview of the game itself and improved the already perfect balance with every patch.

OhMyTaeyeon.5831:

Paolo.1467:

Zerker thievs are the reason why i play zerk Shatter mesmer ^_-

Let me guess…you like playing in downstate?

^^ the quality of players posting here is amazing.