Guild Wars 2

The reason why noone gives a kitten about the ladder.

Change your title to skill ceiling, skill floor is the false word here.

Big up for the support of the community by freelancers as jebro, cause A-Net is clearly not spending any penny into PvP anymore.

Read It Backwards [BooN] looking for a warrior for the upcoming “Champion of the Mists” Tournament.

Please contact me directly ingame or send me a message.
(Only experienced players will be considered)

Current Roster:

- Sensotix (Thief / Mesmer)
- Ventari (Necro)
- Empa (Guard)
- Aragni (Engi)

Till they would release such an amazing feature, there won’t be any teams left by then.

DPS-Guard is one of the only speccs that is well telegraphed. Should stay like that.

Josh Davis.6015:

We haven’t really gone into depth on how luck will be used – I’m just saying that it will. I’m hoping we’ll be able to preview some of the new reward system soon.

Sounds like rewards in PvP will be influenced by luck.
Horrible idea

Jumper.9482:

Woah man that’s too massive a change.
I’d be able to see a Necromancer Doom a mile away!
Or an elementalist switching to Air burst or using Arcanes!

At least you could see which mark he has been used already, if you’ve dodge/block some of them. However, we all know that instant-casts are a bad design (atleast in the form of damage).

Anastasis.7258:

Warrior:

Healing Signet Passive: Heal yourself when swapping weapons. 2,000 healing amount with low healing power scale. (Same as the healing amount of the current Healing Signet overtime.)
Healing Signet Active: Increase burst healing amount to 4,500. Medium healing power scale.

In this case, if a warrior want to play with healing signet effectively, they will be forced to take Fasthand (Discipline 15), this will stop those braindead spec that breaking the game.

This would force every warrior to spec 15 into the Discipline-Traitline when using Healing-Signet. Your change would make this trait a must-have, otherwise healing-signet will be useless, which is generally never a good solution and just leads to pigeon-holded builds.

Back in the old days the Elementalist had the same issue. He was forced to spec atleast 20 into the Arcana-Traitline, because of the reduced attunement-recharge. Not really a smooth design to be honest.

Pyriall.5027:

Jumper.9482:

Belgarion.1975:

snip

When consulting with Caed, I was told those damage numbers probably wouldn’t even be enough to make traps/wire worth consider losing a precious stunbreak. But, point taken; changed the numbers to resemble an auto attack.

I feel D/D should be the ‘pure dps’ go-to while sacrificing utility. Yes, reverting the nerf to CnD and introducing a decent 20 DA trait would result in tons of damage,
- CnD : 5066
- Steal : 1097
- BS : 6092
11k with no aegis or protection. That’s a fair amount considering an elementalist can do the same thing, if not more, with less telegraphs and still offer more support to their team, right?
And what can D/P Trickery do? 25% less damage but with a game-changing steal every 21 seconds that interrupts stability/aegis stomps and resses and a plethora of blinds and other interrupts? I for one would still choose trickery. But those who prefer pure damage wouldn’t be at such a huge disadvantage anymore now would they?

We shouldn’t further promote the limitation of other burst builds in the game. Thief is already the head of that class and that amount of damage only exacerbates the situation.

You use elementalist as justification for those numbers. Elementalists do not have nearly the mobility or amount of disengage a thief has currently. What is this talk of support? What type of support does a fresh air elementalist provide?

He probably won’t respond to your answer, due to the fact it’s true.

If the development would just work with players like you to adjust the balance, the game could be enjoyable again. Sadly they don’t.

Qaelyn.7612:

Sensotix.4106:

troch cooldown increased? just remove pu from the game its useless in tpvp and really really strong in hotjoin which helps nobody

Because tPvP is the only game made in GW2, right? So since you don’t like/use it, it should be removed?

Because a game should never be balanced around a non-organized play-mode. If the balance-changes of the OP would be made, this would have fatal consequences.

Josh Davis.6015:

I toyed around with an idea very similar to this before I joined ArenaNet. I think there’s something here, and I look forward to seeing what you can do with it. It seems like you have some decent support right out of the gate.

Drafting a clear and concise set of rules is going to be key!

Good luck!

This answer clearly shows the desinterest in A-Net to actively participate and support the PvP-Community.

The question is, how new game-modes would be affected by the balance. Because I doubt this game will get more depth if the balance keeps the same.

Romek.4201:

i like foefire

but i hate how easy bunkerclasses have it on this big middle node and run in big circles like chickens

big nodes with NO bunkerclasses allowed would be nice^^

In the power-meta, you had at Maximum 2 bunker-classes. It worked perfectly. Today you have 2 full-bunker plus 2 to 3 semi-bunkers aka warriors and engineers and that’s where the problem starts.

/clap and salute to one of the last good players, who left the game.

The advantage of CS-GO? It’s just a copy-paste from its predecessor. That’s the point where GW2 already failed.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

The problem isn’t stealth or clones or dodges..
Problem is retargeting when coming out of stealth.

-Promote target & player marking should work with the stealth mechanic so it doesn’t mean a get out of combat and dissapear for free.
It would mean, get out of stealth and position yourself for your next attack/defense.

noone ever lost to a stealth user, they only lost to the targeting mechanic.

/thread and now commence spamming dev’s about promote target after stealth.

And than again, what is the advantage of stealth in PvP when you loose the captured node? A warrior will just stay there and full-cap the node, while you are worth zero for the team.

Not sure where the false hype about PU-Mesmer comes from, but definitely not from competitive players.

It seems like they are designed for WvW, not PvP.

Oidmetala.8426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Oidmetala.8426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Oidmetala.8426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mesmer indeed is a very powerfull class. However, others like the necro, ranger or warrior just overshadow it.

sry, but thats right before the patch.
now you are just wrong :P

well for warrior you are still right, but that profession is a bad joke with this longbow dmg
in soldier amulet

If we speak about a duel on point the mesmer is without any chance. And as this game is about capture the mesmer, at least in this mode, isn’t that strong.

nope we speak about tournament

our team
warrior
warrior
guardian
thief
ranger

vs noobs lamers
mesmer
mesmer
thief
guardian
warrior

so mesmer not tourny viable?
its new op lame profession you will see in future

If you lost, you just got outplayed. That simple.
And calling dual-mesmer the “noob-lamer” team regarding your setup with dual-war/thief/ranger is ridicolous to say . . .

you need to be always right empa? :P
well you will see it ealry enough, mesmer profession is rly strong again.
its for sure verry tournament viable.
sure we got outplayed because this profession is strong, we are not a team full of bad players btw.

I don’t want to offend you or anything, but as we played dual mesmer long enough, (your team obviously never did) we clearly know its strenghts and weaknesses. It’s definitely strong, but easily counterable if you split on three points as the mesmer will loose duells on point against the thief, the warrior and the ranger.

Oidmetala.8426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Oidmetala.8426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mesmer indeed is a very powerfull class. However, others like the necro, ranger or warrior just overshadow it.

sry, but thats right before the patch.
now you are just wrong :P

well for warrior you are still right, but that profession is a bad joke with this longbow dmg
in soldier amulet

If we speak about a duel on point the mesmer is without any chance. And as this game is about capture the mesmer, at least in this mode, isn’t that strong.

nope we speak about tournament

our team
warrior
warrior
guardian
thief
ranger

vs noobs lamers
mesmer
mesmer
thief
guardian
warrior

so mesmer not tourny viable?
its new op lame profession you will see in future

If you lost, you just got outplayed. That simple.
And calling dual-mesmer the “noob-lamer” team regarding your setup with dual-war/thief/ranger is ridicolous to say . . .

Archaon.6245:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mesmer indeed is a very powerfull class. However, others like the necro, ranger or warrior just overshadow it.

They’re obviously talkin’ about pu mesmers in “rambo mode” 1v1 arenas or hj i guess, probably not even knowing it’s a totally useless spec in tournaments…don’t even try to explain the difference from worthless duels for feeding someone’s ego and tpvp balance, just a waste of time…we definately all see teams with 2+ pu mesmers everywhere, who needs wars when you have permastealth troll mesmers not even able to kill something or cap a point?

Pointless indeed :/. We tried dual Mesmer in tournament and experienced how easily the enemy can overrun you with warriors, necros and rangers, because these classes can actually stay on a point without diying.

Oidmetala.8426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Mesmer indeed is a very powerfull class. However, others like the necro, ranger or warrior just overshadow it.

sry, but thats right before the patch.
now you are just wrong :P

well for warrior you are still right, but that profession is a bad joke with this longbow dmg
in soldier amulet

If we speak about a duel on point the mesmer is without any chance. And as this game is about capture the mesmer, at least in this mode, isn’t that strong.

butch.8136:

Passive gameplay ruins the competitiveness. Fixing it requires an entire overhaul (not just some balancing and tweaking of numbers).

We still need lots of features that have been requested…like… pre-launch?

Mesmer indeed is a very powerfull class. However, others like the necro, ranger or warrior just overshadow it.

Another passive ability? You literally can spam dodges if you play with energy sigils and have some source of vigor in your build. Another laughable thread . . .

They completely ruined the image and the name of its predecessor.

There is a difference between OP builds that are hard to learn and OP builds that requires zero skill. In this game, obviously there is no class-skill required.

The lack of proper balance-knowlege on the side of A-Net and the flawed infrastrucutre will slowing down the process of reaching an acceptable level of PvP. Still hope the game will get on a good level though . . .

Great Suggestion. Definitely time to remove the “no risk – full reward” of this set.

Bambi Is Strong.6083:

Addishuns.5249:

What you proposed is that Anet leaves this system in. This rank system is stale, provides almost 0 incentive to play. Anyone can reach rank 80, from a pro to a noob. The rank system does nothing to show skill, it only shows that you’ve played enough to get there.

I do agree that reaching rank 80 is too easy, I personally think ranking up should be more harsher like in GW1 where it takes 3 years to get tiger and in it’s existence they’re only 3 dragons.

However being a good player is more than just “oh look at my pro awesome MLG 360 no scope skills”. To be a good player a person does not only need to understand every class, it’s viable builds and the current meta. A good player needs to be able to work with a team, communicate and understand their own teammates. A good player should also have the disciple to properly hold the rank. Disciple is gained by hard work and training. People nowadays are too focused on instant gratification and forget to look at the bigger longer term picture.

You say that the current rank system does not show skill and I say that the current system creates skill. A noob who spends 6 months 24 hours a day grinding rank 80 is surely going to become a good player. I am confident that with the current rank system a higher rank player will consistently beat a lower rank player.

Since Skyhammer was born, it is rarely the case. I see r30 players often performing better than 60+. I would say from 30 to 80 there is no difference at all, but that is just my experience.

haha…doesn’t matter. Balance get worse and worse with every patch.

Qaelyn.7612:

I understand the argument. I guess I just see an equally viable one, that what happens on the very high end affects only a tiny percentage of players and so it makes more sense from a business standpoint not to orient the game around them.

Especially a game like this one that is intended to be easy to pick up.

What you call “scrubs” Arenanet calls “paying customers”. The top 100 PvPers aren’t any more important to the bottom line than any other 100 players. I’m not saying their needs should be ignored, just not prioritized.

Specifically, making game balance decisions in a casual game that tick off 10,000+ players because of game balance issues that affect 100 players is bad management. Many of the proposed changes in this thread fall into that category.

The game can be easy to pick up, that’s not the problem when you balance around high-tier. But the skill-ceiling should be high enough to reward dedicated players. That’s what happens in LoL or Smite for example. Any Player can start and have fun, the basics are easy to understand. Play it for a week and you are able to perform well. But at the very high-end players can reach a high level of play, which casuals can’t reach.

This is not possible in GW2. Either you play an easy meta-build like the spirit-ranger or the hambow-warrior and reach the maximal potential of the class after 2-3 days, or you stay on your favorite class, which isn’t in the meta.
I see mesmers with experience of over a year of permanently playing PvP, loosing on-point to a warrior, which has played the class 1 week and is able to perform better than the mesmer. That’s the main problem of the not existing skill-ceiling. These easy-to-play-builds are more effective and worthier than any experience of a player. That’s what happening when you balance around casuals. They don’t have enough experience, but still wanna compete. They have not the knowledge of the skill-ceiling of the classes, which high-tier-players bring.

And that has nothing to do with elitism. This scheme is existing in every Sport. The rules are adapted to the best. In Soccer for example, the casuals (the majority) could say the goal is too small, because they are too bad to shoot precise enough. But the Sport wouldn’t be attractive and competitive anymore with a Goal, that is twice as big. I hope you get what I want to say.

Qaelyn.7612:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Dispute my claim is your right, however not really reliable, as you never played GW1.

GW1 is irrelevant. Someone said GW2 should be balanced around the top levels of competition, and I’m still waiting for some rationale why.

Mrbig gave you already an input. Also the example that A-Net is balancing the game around casuals is the proof it doesn’t work out, not in such a complex game.

I’ve never seen such easy-to-play-builds in any other game, which can be learnt in 1 day and can be played successfull on a high-level. I really don’t understand what’s so hard to understand.

Qaelyn.7612:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

As an example, GW1 was balanced around top-tier (development worked together with [rawr]) and it was a lot more successfull than its follower.
Top-tier players can achieve a level of experience, which a casual will never have. A top-tier player is able to push a class/the game to a maximum and can show the full potential of it.

I don’t really care about GW1. Never played it, and it’s history. I also dispute your claim that it was “a lot more successful”.

Why should gameplay be oriented around the top 0.1% in this game?

Balance NOT gameplay. Two totally different words. Dispute my claim is your right, however not really reliable, as you never played GW1.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Qaelyn.7612:

Rarnark.5623:

Qaelyn.7612:

Oh, and while we’re at it – balancing a game around the needs of the top 0.1% of the playerbase is an incredibly stupid way to run a business.

I disagree. A pvp game should be balanced around the highest levels of competitive play.

Why?

As an example, GW1 was balanced around top-tier (development worked together with [rawr]) and it was a lot more successfull than its follower.
Top-tier players can achieve a level of experience, which a casual will never have. A top-tier player is able to push a class/the game to a maximum and can show the full potential of it.

times are different now.
guild wars 2 is a casual game. remember that.

the needs and wants of casual players must be taken care of first, above others.
the 10 december 2013 patch should have told you that, no?
25 skill points for a new heal skill.
gold rewards.
glory removed.
etc.

Rewards and balance are not the same. My post answeres in reference to balance, therefore read carefully next time. You talk about rewards in your answer, and totally missed my point.
Again: Balance should be made around top-tier, where rewards and all other things like game-modes etc. should be made for the bright masses.

Qaelyn.7612:

Rarnark.5623:

Qaelyn.7612:

Oh, and while we’re at it – balancing a game around the needs of the top 0.1% of the playerbase is an incredibly stupid way to run a business.

I disagree. A pvp game should be balanced around the highest levels of competitive play.

Why?

As an example, GW1 was balanced around top-tier (development worked together with [rawr]) and it was a lot more successfull than its follower.
Top-tier players can achieve a level of experience, which a casual will never have. A top-tier player is able to push a class/the game to a maximum and can show the full potential of it.

More or less I agree with everything. I like the consideration of fixing “hardcounters” like zerk-stance or diamond-skin and decrease damage. Also your notes would be a good start to finally eliminating all the passiveness in this game, which was the main reason for the failure of PvP.

Simplicity.7208:

• The burst doesn’t work on anyone with a brain (easy to dodge & split amongst your various clones instead of one hit like backstab)
• The burst is exponentially harder to play than any OP warrior or necro build you could run and achieves similar DPS
• Mesmers are very condition weak + there’s a condition meta, so mesmer counters are everywhere
• Shatter mesmers are too glassy; PvP = bunker wars, if you can’t hold a point until reinforcements arrive, you don’t have much place in PvP (note the bunker meta)
• Mesmers have lower mobility than a thief and thus are less adept at roaming, the primary goal of a glass spec in PvP
• Shatter mesmers are not typically as useful as other classes in team fights due to clones dying before you can shatter them and phantasms not having cleave
  Any questions?

Unrelated: Never run torch on a PvP shatter mesmer. Not only is torch a condition weapon with a terrible phantasm but stealth decaps points which hurts your team more than it helps. Mantras are also a poor choice for various reasons I choose not to go into.

Perfectly explained for considering you play competitive (excluding SoloQ and hotjoin as there you can play whatever you want and still be able to win).

EU is pretty dead on prime time

Michael.7382:

leungctm.1362:

Is it a possible thing to consider in the future ?

E.g Having golem in HOTM that heals at random times and practice interrupting.
Interrupting healing skills was very popular in GW1.

This is what separated gr8 mesmers from the rest – interrupting 0.5 or less cast time spells. WoH with it’s 0.75s cast was so looong. U had to menage ur cooldowns well, here, with d/p thief, if u make mistake, u can just recast it 1sec later… GW2 is generally way to spamy to show skills in interrupting, + R.I.P skillful GW1 Interrupt Mesmers n Rangers +

Yep

As long as the balance won’t get on an acceptable level, more game-modes won’t change anything.

jimmyimo.2089:

sendmark.4731:

You still get the occasional tool trying to use Glory rank. I had someone yesterday try to do that when I’m rank 36 and he was in mid 40s. No doubt one of those who farmed Skyhammer and want something to show for that wasted time /smh

Skyhammer farming does not give you rank points; it gives you glory.

Are you serious?

They messed up everything and now can’t implement all the stuff, which was in GW1. A 8 year old game totally knocked out its follower.

Lopez.7369:

Immobilize, like blind, is severely underestimated by the developers. I genuinely do not understand how they looked at the old immobilize — back when it only stacked once — and concluded that it needed a buff.

Nearly nothing is comprehensible what A-Net is doing. I think they don’t even understand their own changes.

It’s not the same development as in GW1. They tried to reinvent the wheel and failed miserable.

I really hope you don’t have Kids . . .

Completely agree here. What is denying the “teamplay” you mentioned, is that the classes get more and more Independent. They get more damage and more sustain. The warrior and the ranger are perfect examples. They don’t rely on other teammates anymore, as for example the shatter-mesmer or the d/p-thief did.

Skyhammer is just the tip of all the things that are wrong in this game.

Good: Rewards based on challenge. (Team-Arena gets finally better rewards than hotjoin)

Bad: Nearly all classes are overpowered. Too much damage compensated with too much sustain. Start lowering classes and get them back to a normal level we had around November 2012.

Missing: Balance discussion with top-players. At the Moment it seems like the balance-team doesn’t exactly know what’s wrong with balance and how to solve the issues.