Guild Wars 2

KarlaGrey.5903:

OP needs a change of title to ‘It has already ended’ for accuracy.

biggest joke development i’ve ever seen . . . you have totally no idea what’s going on in PvP. Better leave the drowning ship before it’s too late.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Archaon.6245:

So…how does hambow feel compared to, let’s say, mesmer? Sincerely….let’s see if it’s the same for me used to main mesmer and forced to reroll war instead if i have to go for a dps role…

I would be interested to hear some devs’ comments on current builds/ professions too. But I wonder if they have the time available.

Time available. Nuts not available.

Lescansy.6174:

55 HP Monks can’t handle it? That’s new…

And i say Fake can beat them, not that his build is good in teamfights (is decap-engi good in any other thing than 1on1? trololol!)

I see, you avoid perfect my question: Why is Engi op (and not in all teams), but no teams can play without Guardion and Warrior?

55 HP Monks = ELE, inform yourself before you speak.
Doesn’t change the fact that decap-engineer is a broken spec. Even if it is not such a viable specc in your opinion.

sorrow.2364:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Well, let’s say ele is (besides fresh air and DS) one of the better balanced classes.

Really?
Ele is the better balanced class when pretty much any elementalist spend 30 points into arcana picking the same 3 traits?
When Fire Magic is completely unviable as traitline compared to Air Magic?
When Earth Grandmaster trait completely suck?
When there is no reliable way to remove conditions out of Ether Renewal or Cleansing Water?
When half of the weapon skills (focus in fire, Shatterstone, scepter autoattacks) and utility skills (glyphs and half of the signets) are flat out useless?
When there is no way in the hell to survive without having at least 300 extra vitality and toughness, forcing non-lolcrazy-glass elementalists to pick the same amulet choices?

Seriously, elementalist is a bloody mess.
To be honest, the only profession which is somewhat close to be balanced that I’ve played enough (so no mesmer or engineer) is Thief. Other professions are still a mess.

Subjective opinion. I got you hate the class.

Lescansy.6174:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

There are two teams that can deal with it in EU. The reason is, there are not other teams on the same level as those. Just because 2 Teams don’t play a specc in a competiton-dead game, doesn’t mean the specc is easy to handle.

No, there are 3 (ore more) Teams.

Again, there are two teams nowadays (ELE, CM).
I think I played competitive long enough to tell that. And fake is our core-warrior and we think it’s a waste to let him run that bug-abuse-build. Just because HamBow is so much stronger in general, especially in teamfights and 2v2’s.

ensoriki.5789:

Dojo.1867:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Ele should technically be in a much better spot come the feature build.

Pretty anxious not gunna lie..

Ele is the only balanced class right now. You should rather tune down everyting else.

There isn’t a single balanced class in GW2.
Individual things or a set of things within a class being balanced? Sure I’ll take that bite.
Ele? 1 hand fresh air tomfoolery is not balanced, on the other hand glyphs suck among multiple other things. You can rinse and repeat for everyone, there isn’t a balanced class, everyone has things that need tuning upwards and downwards.

Well, let’s say ele is (besides fresh air and DS) one of the better balanced classes.

Well, this message was a clear statement to the PvP-Crowd. Development shows pure incapability of balancing and lack of basic understanding of PvP. A reason why my guild stopped playing this game. It’s a complete waste of time.

Unstoppable downfall of PvP

Tyler Chapman.1832:

… but the tankier dps specs have seen substantial improvements.

… on swap sigils coming in alone. This might over scale certain specs into godliness while bringing other classes up to par at the same time.

…Every single class has such drastic improvements to sustain through this

… at the same time it allows full tank builds to bring out more damage while supporting their group.

… warrior 5 second weapon swaps, they can utilize 4 different on swap sigils as compared to what most classes can do with 2.

Just some quotes of you.
To be honest, I’m completely horriefied of the upcoming patch. Wasn’t the warrior not a lesson for you, that sustain and damage or general speaking, power-creep, will ruin the balance and the PvP with it? God have mercy with this development.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Ele should technically be in a much better spot come the feature build.

Pretty anxious not gunna lie..

Looks like you start buffing classes again. The biggest mistake your development has done / is doing and probably will never understand.

Lescansy.6174:

JinDaVikk.7291:

1: I will never die 1v1 to a warrior.

You mean, you will never die 1v1 vs a NA warrior? It can be … true.
The top Teams of EU didn’t play with decap engineer. Why? They can counter it!

There are two teams that can deal with it in EU. The reason is, there are not other teams on the same level as those. Just because 2 Teams don’t play a specc in a competiton-dead game, doesn’t mean the specc is easy to handle.

selan.8354:

Romek.4201:

arenanet plz add tournament games played to avatar and dont allow people with lower than 250 games played in this forum anymore

seriously just read this tread full with wvw and hotjoin bullkitten

dude, u got wannabe elitist issues! we are explaining things to the op that was whining about mesmer skills without knowing anything about this class. u think u are soo much better than everyone becausseeee….? let me guess u main a thief. ranks mean absolutely nothing. we all have the right to discuss, we dont need a rank for that. so might wanna resize that giant chip on your shoulder!
and instead of just insulting everyone with your false pride, u might wanna at least try to contribute to the actual discussion. i really could care less about your rank, i care about this discussion.

Nothing to do with elitism here. It’s the same with “first think, then speak”. I mean nobody is a pro from the start and understands everything. I just don’t get why ppl come here on the forums with experience around 10-30 matches and start to complain about something, they don’t even understand. It’s irrational and is missleading A-Net on balancing properly.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Levis.6137:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Fake is 69, without Skyhammer.

I know and i have great respect for this, anyway you can see it in the leaderboards, his played tpvp and yoloqueue matches.
But there are people running around with rank 69 i never heard of and this it what drives me crazy.

MMO players love to farm. Or grind. For shinies!

False! The PvP-Crowd doesn’t enjoy it at all. In GW1 you didn’t even had access to PvE-gear long time. Noone there was grinding for “shinies” . . .

Any news on how to reward the tournament-players? Because the chests are pretty worthless right now (like everything we saved up in 1.5 years)

Fake is 69, without Skyhammer.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to pop in here and mention that one of the ways for us to access a build’s strength is to get in and play it ourselves. Grouch playing decap doesn’t correlate with the balance team thinking this build is in a good place in sPvP. You’d be surprised how some of us feel about it in reality.

I thought you guys should know I’m writing an e-mail to the team as we speak about its prevalence and perception in the game. You guys have done a great job messaging out against the build, it’s gotten our attention. No promises on things changing about this build in the near future but you might see some things get better/worse with the secret changes coming in for the feature build that will potentially address this.

Thanks again for all the discussion on various topics. It may seem as if we don’t read these forums anymore but in reality we have a very loaded patch we’ve been slaving on for the past few months.

-Tyler

Finally nerf AR and the job is done. Takes you 5 minutes instead of 1 year again.

silvermember.8941:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dahkeus.8243

I can’t help but roll my eyes every time someone uses “slap in the face” in a thread that complains about something…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

It is funny though. Slap in the face is used so commonly that it has almost no meaning. AT this stage NOT using “slap in the face” will actually mean more than using it.

Such an overused word and although it is suppose to invoke emotions all it does is invoke an eye roll.

The whole PvP is such an “eye roll”.
Better now?

DuranArgith.1354:

if you have a power necro, send him to defend close. Lich form will guarantee a kill pretty much always. If lich form is on cd, a good power necro can still kill the engi relatively easy.

On the other hand a power-necro is not a safe-play for close-point. Counter such a build just cripples your own setup and strategy.

Another thread that is missleading for balancing. Please learn the game. Everybody had problems with mesmer back in the days when they just started playing and were unexperienced. Invest time into the game before you start posting such things.

Thank you!

aussieheals.6843:

Enough Said.

!http://imgur.com/u9fpcyc!

Well, Skyhammer is another Problem :P

It’s different (for some ppl even funny), but definitely not competitive, which soloq should be. It cripples the game if one ability is enough to kill someone. Especially when these abilities are spamable and so easy accessible for bunker speccs.
Goodbye risk-reward and kitten logic.

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

But you know that you just can stand close to the gate and besides pull, there is no possibility to knock you off in that Position? Seems pretty boring to me

Skyhammer literally forces you to quit soloq.

A-Net told us last year, the “big revamp of rewards” should come January 2014. Promise and promise . . . can’t take all these lies anymore they create to keep the players hopes alive.

They choose to ignore the part of the community that actually understands the game. development is clearly not understading anything bout Balance.

Evan Lesh.3295:

I play, but not with my tag on. ~1200 games (50% of them rated): ~700 warrior, ~200 necro, ~200 engy. I consider myself in the “competative casual” category.

That means a bit more than 2 games a day since release, which to me is casual and has nothing to do with competitive. Especially due to the reason soloq doesn’t proove points for balancing.

zone.1073:

Spectator mode of high MMR ranked games, to educate the PvP community and increase competition.

Featured game spotlight, advertised within the UI of the game itself. High MMR ranked matches will be displayed as a link in the PvP in-game menus, so players can easily find, access, and watch the games.

Quantifiable, viewable MMR.

Separate tiers or brackets in ranked games. Bronze players will only play versus bronze players, silver with only silver, gold with only gold, etc.

Removal of 8 v 8 stock custom arenas; replaced with only 5 v 5 stock custom arenas. Player-purchased custom arenas can still be set to 8 v 8 if chosen by the server owner.
Reasoning: 8 v 8 is toxic to the PvP community, as it poisons and tricks new players into developing bad habits, and also yields no improvement in skill, and doesn’t promote competition and learning.

^good suggestions there

Worst map in history of gaming

League will go pretty much nowhere with about 6 Teams playing.

Phantaram.4816:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Phantaram.4816:

If things remain even remotely as close to as tanky as they are, they need to increase elementalist damage outside of Freshi Air. They could do this a number of ways but the easiest is to actually make our auto attacks good outside of air, and improve all of the auto attacks on staff.

This is probably the worst scenario that could happen. This would generate even more power-creep and is overall not a good solution. As you said, the pre-dhuumfire-balance was probably the best we had. If you keep buffing classes the balance will go further away from that state.

Yeah, I agree bringing things down to the ele level is the ultimate solution like I said. However we have to look at it from the perspective of the devs. For them bringing ele up to the level of everything else is much easier and probably the path they are on. So I’ll try to influence making that path as good as possible since the other path we all want is such a longshot.

True . . .

Acandis.3250:

It’s like… why go to a chinese restaurant that chinese people don’t go to?

More like: why go to a chinese restaurant, where the cooks don’t even know how to cook chinese.

zone.1073:

Cynz.9437:

tbh i doubt that in deathmatch ppl would run thieves since they drop like flies

in any game i have played that had death match mode, you usually wanted to run bruisers or high CC dmg + support… i believe necros, engis, wars and guards would be the thing

You missed the point.

He doesn’t… If you wanna complain about balance overall you’re in the false forum part.

Disagree with forest. In tPvP it’s possibly the worst call you could do. Also the rest is just basic understanding of each map. If you have a bit of intelligence, you do such things automatically.

What really wins you the game nowadays is the setup and the rotation. It comes down to easy math. Look and count where the enemy is. It’s all about that.

Phantaram.4816:

If things remain even remotely as close to as tanky as they are, they need to increase elementalist damage outside of Freshi Air. They could do this a number of ways but the easiest is to actually make our auto attacks good outside of air, and improve all of the auto attacks on staff.

This is probably the worst scenario that could happen. This would generate even more power-creep and is overall not a good solution. As you said, the pre-dhuumfire-balance was probably the best we had. If you keep buffing classes the balance will go further away from that state.

Pyriall.5027:

MIrra.3604:

Pyriall.5027:

K U T M.4539:

Fade.9124:

spvp is dead, this is coming from a rank 61. WvW is where it’s at. Sad, but true.

There’s actually DRAMA and COMPETITION in wvw atm.

It’s amazing

Drama? Yes…Competition? WHA???

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/WvW-4-tM-vs-9-4-RIOT-5-lv80s-Vid-6/page/2#post3624922

Team RIOT (I think they Spvp) vs TM (mostly a WvW roaming guild?). Drama + a competitive fight to come.

/popcorn

Not seeing it..

If you call that competitive, you never experienced real competition.

Besides fresh-air, eles are pretty balanced nowadays. The problem are some other classes.

Coast.5162:

So it took like 1 year for gw2to have a smaller pvp than gw 1 currently has after 8+ years of neglection, such quality.

PeepMeDown.5017:

I agree that the shout caster’s aren’t very good and i normally mute any gw2 stream. They rarely say anything relevant or noteworthy and often don’t understand the meta.
Their direction and observation skills are lacking and i often find they move away from a key/fun fight to something that isn’t really relevant/exciting (such as a solo decap). They also tend to select the downed characters viewpoint rather than those trying to fight/stomp so you miss out on any good stomp plays etc.
Having said that i wouldn’t of made a video like this which was a overly rude. A polite constuctive video would made this point better.

^

Suggestions are definitely an improvement. The map on the other hand will never be a competitive map (the concept of falling-down and CC offers too much of a chance to abuse builds and abilities), therefore shouldn’t be in SoloQ.

The fact that A-Net refused to take out the Trollhammer map is defnitely a big let-down for the competitive crowd. Another step into the casual-crowd.

This game (said by many players) has turned into a dead-end. Thanks to A-Net not listening to the core-PvP-players for balance-improvements.

So sad to see such potential going nowhere . . .

Eurantien.4632:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

JinDaVikk.7291:

cymerdown.4103:

It’s bad in team arena, can be effective in solo, though. For team, just run a “decap” thief instead. 4 stab war counters the build, just test it. Jin just go duel Wakkey, you won’t full cap before death and you need to full cap for it to be worth running the build otherwise you are a negative point investment.

Keep in mind, nothing is really new about this build. It’s been around and known for over a year, and no top team has ever run it. There are good reasons for that.

Lets get some things straight Ken:
1 plastic Fantastic ran decap engi and they were a pretty good EU team (better than 90 percent of NA team and I say that to prevent the no “top” team comment. Na is far from TOP anything).
2: NO warrior will kill me 1v1.
3: Unless you rotate someone within 15-20 seconds I will still decap.
4: I can just 1v2 for ages (see next reason)(and I can just run around. Niflhel is hilarious)
5: 4 stab warrior gives up alot of damage or utility (the stab trait loses either cleansing ire or hammer damage)
6:Knockbacks aren’t the decap the Immob Is. You only have 1 condi immune. And removing the condi is same time as a “tick” for decap.
7: The stab trait doesn’t stun break ( or hasn’t since I’ve played warrior correct me if I’m wrong) So your still required to stun break (waste of a cd)
8: I’ll still decap you we tested this against Olrun using that exact idea… took 12 seconds to decap. Full cap in 40~.

Now to the “thief” thing. They are technically my counter. Some thieves (most of NA thiefs) I have severely out-played. Some have destroyed me. if I want to win using decap won’t play it against a thief.
1:Running decap thief isnt a guarunteed thing. If you have seen Cheese Mode, Sizer generally beats the other thief to his home point. Then its a 1v1. Which is fine.
2:I DO NOT want decap engi to be viable. I started playing it on NA to kitten every person in NA off. I feel like I’ve done a good job considering how many people rage quit, yell at me, and have disbanded their teams (thats just sad…)

Nerf AR and decap engi goes bye bye. Every condi build would be able to kill it with ease. I would like it to be changed to condi removal and NOT at low hp. Just low amounts of condi removal. Maybe 1 per toolbelt skill? Maybe 2?

And while they are at it fix the other immunities. Diamon skin( remove it) berzerker stance (just nerf it)

Elephantitas.

competitive and experienced engineer talks facts . . . especially immunities are a problem and create such kittened builds.

.

Regarding:
2. ROM from cheesemode would kill you. 1. Because he’s good, 2. Because the reflect projectile bug makes you rather useless.
3: You can die 1 v 1 regardless of how “OP”. “http://www.twitch.tv/livevvvgaming/b/499946230” start watching at 3:11:00.
4. Rotate a thief back.
7. The stab trait gives stab upon CC instantly stunbreaking.

The build is annoying, I do not think it is impossible to deal with. I also think that the build is relatively new to the scene and we have yet to see what it will do to the meta. That being said it fits right into the current meta in terms of being not enjoyable along with spirit rangers and warriors.

2.) Sure a axe/sword – bow Warrior will kill this type of engineer. But the fact you either give up utlities for stability (and the chance of a decap is still existing) makes the warrior not that powerfull compared to a hambow.

3.) Please, don’t refer an NA-Tournament as an argument to proove facts. That doesn’t work. A good engineer can hold extremly long in a 1v1. Also we don’t talk about top-teams only, but also lower-tiered teams, where such engineers have the biggest impact, because unexperienced teams don’t know how to handle/neutralize such builds.

4.) If you send a thief back you are outnumbered on mid. The only reason why teams can survive such situations is the reason of too much sustain (especially setups with warriors and rangers). In the burst-meta, no team was able to make such a rotation (Balance in gw2 these days is completely kittened up anyway).

7.) Again! The problem with decap-engis is that if you ever get knocked out of the point, they will immobilize instantly. Stunbreak doesn’t help on immobilize.

JinDaVikk.7291:

cymerdown.4103:

It’s bad in team arena, can be effective in solo, though. For team, just run a “decap” thief instead. 4 stab war counters the build, just test it. Jin just go duel Wakkey, you won’t full cap before death and you need to full cap for it to be worth running the build otherwise you are a negative point investment.

Keep in mind, nothing is really new about this build. It’s been around and known for over a year, and no top team has ever run it. There are good reasons for that.

Lets get some things straight Ken:
1 plastic Fantastic ran decap engi and they were a pretty good EU team (better than 90 percent of NA team and I say that to prevent the no “top” team comment. Na is far from TOP anything).
2: NO warrior will kill me 1v1.
3: Unless you rotate someone within 15-20 seconds I will still decap.
4: I can just 1v2 for ages (see next reason)(and I can just run around. Niflhel is hilarious)
5: 4 stab warrior gives up alot of damage or utility (the stab trait loses either cleansing ire or hammer damage)
6:Knockbacks aren’t the decap the Immob Is. You only have 1 condi immune. And removing the condi is same time as a “tick” for decap.
7: The stab trait doesn’t stun break ( or hasn’t since I’ve played warrior correct me if I’m wrong) So your still required to stun break (waste of a cd)
8: I’ll still decap you we tested this against Olrun using that exact idea… took 12 seconds to decap. Full cap in 40~.

Now to the “thief” thing. They are technically my counter. Some thieves (most of NA thiefs) I have severely out-played. Some have destroyed me. if I want to win using decap won’t play it against a thief.
1:Running decap thief isnt a guarunteed thing. If you have seen Cheese Mode, Sizer generally beats the other thief to his home point. Then its a 1v1. Which is fine.
2:I DO NOT want decap engi to be viable. I started playing it on NA to kitten every person in NA off. I feel like I’ve done a good job considering how many people rage quit, yell at me, and have disbanded their teams (thats just sad…)

Nerf AR and decap engi goes bye bye. Every condi build would be able to kill it with ease. I would like it to be changed to condi removal and NOT at low hp. Just low amounts of condi removal. Maybe 1 per toolbelt skill? Maybe 2?

And while they are at it fix the other immunities. Diamon skin( remove it) berzerker stance (just nerf it)

Elephantitas.

competitive and experienced engineer talks facts . . . especially immunities are a problem and create such kittened builds.

Blackjack.2083:

Conditions are broke. It is simply way too easy to apply them and too easy to go full tank with high condition damage output. On top of that you can dot someone up then concentrate on kiting or playing defensively while those conditions just eat your opponent away.

It is the ultimate low risk high reward setup that has to require the lowest skill level to play. It also forces everyone to pack as many condition removal skills as possible or you just gonna be toast. Even with them you probably gonna get overwhelmed by the sheer number and ease at which they get applied.

I play a Warrior and I’ll be the first to say that giving warriors Cleansing Ire, Dogged March, and buffing HS then giving them S/S+LB for instance was a bad idea. Bleeds on auto-attack, Crazy high damage on Torment, good mobility, AOE F1 to clear conditions, long immobilize with high bleed, blind, and burning damage…..oh and go ahead and combine tanky build with that as well. Really?

Of course it’s just not warrior its any class that can build for toughness and still rely on high consistent condition damage that is to blame. You can’t even make toughness mitigate condition damage or you will just make tanky condition appliers have even more tankiness. Condition damage in this game is just an abomination in its current state and has led to more people I played with quitting then any other single factor in GW2.

^

someone lost his virginity? great!

Proven.2854:

I guess I just find it distasteful to have any class be so hard to kill while also putting out so much support. It feels unbalancing for the game mode and is part of the reason why the meta has shifted to what it is now (more classes running tankier builds so they can approach the point holding ability Guardians have, and more classes running conditions to help deal with both Guardians and other tanky builds).

The reason why setups are more tankier than back in the days is not caused by Guardian or anything that has to do with the class. The reason is constant buffing (damage and sustain) by A-Net, which leads to the fact that a warrior can be nearly as tanky as a bunker, while putting out tons of damage.

Short: Power-creep is the reason, not Guardian . . .

Phaeton.9582:

or you could just play better and not let him decap.. certainly anyone running warrior or guard has no excuse for allowing them to decap in any scenario.

And that’s an instant counter..

Well, you can adjust your build to counter it, for e.g. double stability on warrior (a Guardian will get a decap sooner or later). But then again, is that fun to Play against? Player versus Point? Noone enjoys that.

glaphen.5230:

Alright I really don’t think either of you play anything but hot join and just don’t understand how conquest mode works so arguing is futile.

The Problem of the PvP-Forum

infantrydiv.1620:

Lachanche.6859:

What are you talking about infantrydiv, do you even know what balanced mean ?
Guardians can offer team support and take massive punishment with a bunker build OR dish out an acceptable amount of damage with a meditation build.
Both builds are killable in 1v1, both builds renounce to something to get something else.
Things like hard counters or thieves locking out every other berserker build from the game are unbalanced.

Being forced to take a certain class because that class is so good is the opposite of balance.

In GW1 ppl were forced to take Monks with them. Does this mean they are overpowered or unbalanced? What kind of logic is that, you argument with?? silly . . .

A Guardian is taken due to the massive support in teamfights and especially the AoE-stability. In little skirmishes like 2v2 and 1v1 he is a total disadvantage for the team. No class is as good as the Guardian at supporting allies. That’s why he’s taken. Doesn’t mean it’s by any point overpowered or unbalanced.

I mean is a thief unbalanced because he can roam faster than any other class?