Guild Wars 2

Compared to other games like Mobas or its predecessor GW1 it’s pretty skillless, atleast from the perspective of classes (spamming, no e-management, no risk-reward etc.).

The difference between teams are most likely based on rotations and map awareness.

Mrbig.8019:

Ok i think most people here don’t really understand the reasoning behind OP.

In the past if you wanted good duelist professions able to keep the point you were forced to pick certain professions (engi, ranger, ele) that sucked on other aspects (teamfight presence for engi and ranger, weakness to focus fire for ele).

And that’s why you needed the guard and fast dps dealing proffs to support them.

Right now you don’t have to make choices, even those classes ( aside ranger) can build so defensively while dishing WAY MORE DAMAGE THAN BEFORE that not only you don’t need dps or guard anymore, but you have even another profession (warrior) NOT ONLY able to do all of this at once but EVEN WITH MORE POINT PRESENCE.

Long story short, the game is so full of gamebreaking stuff that coordination is no longer needed, you just need to rotate to everypoint and keep opponents busy in neverending 1vs1s that the squishiest will lose.

This makes no sense.

And no , mesmer/thief is not the solution since mes will get rekt as soon as any of these professions look grimly at him in any teamfight, and at the first mismovement you’ll get 2-3 capped and snowballed, reason why even misha had to drop mesmer for the tournament.

This may not be the most boring meta ever, but it’s indeed the most broken one and the fact that guard is no longer needed it’s the clear example.

Agree. The only difference between 55hp and CM is that 55hp has to actually rotate the correct classes, while CM has not to (see Temple, Bunker Guard on bottom-buff).

Also the fact that Guard is not needed anymore as a full-support shows clearly that classes/builds these days are way too independent. Means lesser coordination, lesser teamplay.

style.6173:

1. Balance – This is the biggest issue. It takes the balance team forever to make changes (seriously, what do they do all day that is takes 5-6 months to release balance updates). eSports have much more frequent changes. The issue with GW2 is that oftentimes something is broken and people get frustrated some stop playing PvP. The balance team is the weak point here.
2. Game modes – Conquest is fun to play, but boring to watch. They need a new game mode and put the focus on that.

Agree!

Narcarsis.5739:

Pifil.5193:

I think he meant that there were no news about Guild Wars 2 (as in nothing about anything new in Guild Wars 2) rather than no coverage for the tournament.

How is announcing three $50,000 tournaments not news about Guild Wars 2? It’s not the Gamescom tournament coverage, it’s a completely different tournament with cash prizing.

Prices in form of money doesn’t make the game suddenly good.

Seemed like they had no money for chairs. People watching the stream can’t take this serious.

Archaon.9524:

Considering running some RAs too…is LS Monk still viable?

Was it ever viable? we do talk about life sheath right?^^

IsilZha.3608:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

IsilZha.3608:

Your Game My Rules.5324:

GW1 is still more active in pvp (all gamemodes included) than GW2 is.

You lost me when you started lying to exaggerate your point. Cause you know, this is ludicrously easy to verify. When I logged into GW1 last week fit nostalgia’s sake, I went to go do the pvp I liked there and was disappointed. The temple of Balthazar, which back before gw2 would have a dozen or more full districts, had one, rather empty district. HoM is far more active. But, then I went to check fort aspenwood and jade quarry. Both were totally and completely empty. Not a single person on either end.

He talks about the competition I guess, which is in GW1 (mostly GvG), still bigger than in GW2 nowadays. Hotjoin and soloQ can’t be taken seriously anyways.

I would’ve thought this if he didn’t explicitly spell out “all gamemodes included.”

yeah, I’ll get your point.
GW1 just felt more populated, due to the fact that for nearly everything a premade team was required. In GW1 you found teams fast, in GW2 there are none existing. Tunnel vision incoming

IsilZha.3608:

Your Game My Rules.5324:

GW1 is still more active in pvp (all gamemodes included) than GW2 is.

You lost me when you started lying to exaggerate your point. Cause you know, this is ludicrously easy to verify. When I logged into GW1 last week fit nostalgia’s sake, I went to go do the pvp I liked there and was disappointed. The temple of Balthazar, which back before gw2 would have a dozen or more full districts, had one, rather empty district. HoM is far more active. But, then I went to check fort aspenwood and jade quarry. Both were totally and completely empty. Not a single person on either end.

He talks about the competition I guess, which is in GW1 (mostly GvG), still bigger than in GW2 nowadays. Hotjoin and soloQ can’t be taken seriously anyways.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Here comes an Anet dev to tell us things are coming without giving us any information on what is coming or when it’s coming! Anyone remember leagues! They said that was coming! Anyone remember those 3 pictures of the new maps! Castle or fortress or whatever with all the bookshelves! Yeah that was like half a year ago! Maybe more! It’s always this “Hey we’re doing things but can’t talk about it and then a year later we’re still working on it!” It’s getting very old and the things you said you were working on a year ago STILL aren’t here!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

EDIT:

@: Balance: it’s something we’re definitely keeping in mind as we experiment with different game types. Some things carry over just fine from Conquest, others become weaker, and others become stronger. It’s inherent/to be expected in having different goals in different game modes.

The solution is SO SIMPLE!!!! Split up abilities into PvP and PvE versions! You did it in GW1! Why won’t you commit to it for GW2! You already did it for some skills like old Dhuumfire and the revealed timer! Why aren’t you committing! Why! WHY!

Wahoo!

The best

Liewec.2896:

…of all the MMOs i’ve played GW1 was probably the best pvp, what happened to anet?!

Big part of people who designed, developed and built GW1 left Arena-Net (I guess due to misearble payment). The new development/management is totally different. For e.g. if we compare the cooperation between top-players and the balance team. Everything gets handled differently.

Also the new staff wanted to invent the wheel again and bring the game to another level. Copy-Paste with better graphics was too easy for those geniuses (in my opinion a big waste of a perfect PvP, R.I.P. GW1).

I think the problem is that especially the balance-team had since release no idea how to balance PvP properly. It’s still the case. They go all the way for casuals, but don’t realise that on the long run, there needs to be depth and a high skill-ceiling, to feel some sort of class-progression, not only strategic progression. The ability to spam is probably the origin of the cancer.

Anyway, hope they remake GW1 when GW3 happens.

Everyone that doesn’t like to troll and play for real hates the map. A-Net is too pride anyway to admit faults, so this map will stay in soloQ.

KarlaGrey.5903:

BLUna.7928:

I get asked by about 5-10 prior high tier players that since moved on to games a month asking what’s coming up in the scene, and very often they hear enough to want to venture back into guild wars.

Yea, those skill fact updates are srs bsns.

Had a good laugh, thanks.
* flies away while dodging infraction points *

After 2 years of unchanged PvP, no incentives, no new modes and no commitment from the side of A-Net to fix this game there’s little room for saying that this tournament is interesting to watch nor the gameplay in general.

Romek.4201:

watching gw2 pvp is like watching soccer on fast forward

game to fast for the cluttered info it provides

there will never be much viewers for gw2 and so will never be e-sport

only chance would be some castbars so all this different animation infos could be somehow compact and clear to read

or e-management + clear animations, to avoid spamming. Likely not gonna happen.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Quincy.2198:

Lopez.7369:

The leaderboard still shows skill because, as Vince mentioned, everyone has to deal with outnumbered matches. So those matches — and other problematic matches — become a statistical wash for everyone after 30 or so games. What leaderboards measure, then, is who can carry their team despite whatever problems — four-on-five matches, bad comps, bad attitudes — arise.

In your opinion, how does it show skill? I’ve seen alot new players in top 25, had them on my team, they didn’t know what they were doing at all. Just lucky because they get matched up with good players.

Keyword is 30 (or insert another arbitrary number)—you cannot have a a lucky streak for that many games. LB doesn’t reflect new players well, but it should reflect veteran players fairly well. Just wait til LB decay gets rid of the newbies and/or they play and get crushed.

TeamQ yes, SoloQ no.

Why not soloq? So a person having 60% winrate with more than 500 games played is not a “fairly well” indication of how well they play?

Most of the time if you win either is dependant on your setup and/or your teammates. You can make a difference, but for me it feels more like a lottery tbh.

To add: Everybody can play a class “well” in this game. Problem is good awareness of rotation, which even top soloq players (those, which never played in teams) bring rarely on the table.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Quincy.2198:

Lopez.7369:

The leaderboard still shows skill because, as Vince mentioned, everyone has to deal with outnumbered matches. So those matches — and other problematic matches — become a statistical wash for everyone after 30 or so games. What leaderboards measure, then, is who can carry their team despite whatever problems — four-on-five matches, bad comps, bad attitudes — arise.

In your opinion, how does it show skill? I’ve seen alot new players in top 25, had them on my team, they didn’t know what they were doing at all. Just lucky because they get matched up with good players.

Keyword is 30 (or insert another arbitrary number)—you cannot have a a lucky streak for that many games. LB doesn’t reflect new players well, but it should reflect veteran players fairly well. Just wait til LB decay gets rid of the newbies and/or they play and get crushed.

TeamQ yes, SoloQ no.

Liewec.2896:

Deified.7520:

Nothing specific, you can be as general as you’d like. However just to show people that yes, you are working on projects.

the problem there is we end up with the baseless banter that we once had before they decided to stop communicating all together.

we need specifics. no more of this…
“We’re working on a solution Not ready to talk about the details yet”
(taken from a dev post 4 months ago on the subject for 4v5s which are still happening)

“we don’t have any plans to remove skyhammer from solo arena right now, doesn’t mean we aren’t kicking around ideas.”
(5 months ago, no change)

without specifics we will just get these vague “oh yeah we’re trying some stuff” cop-out responses with no action ever taken.

We have that for 2 years now. People that still think those quick “the development is still alive- one-sentence-posts” have any meaning, probably still believe in Santa and search for unicorns in their free-time.

How about a new development?

Aomine.5012:

Romek.4201:

they should nerf your threads @op

seriously

everyday a new Lordrosicky thread with nerf this or this but buff my necro cause necro now to hard when can´t condiburst people 100-0 in seconds

man just stop – its annoying

It’s not just annoying, Anet will actually LISTEN to the minority.
They’d ignore posts with 900+ replies, mentioned hundred times before (Skyhammer) and go all the way to nerf something that ONE person mentioned ONCE before…

Sorry, but A-Net only answers to positive feedback or neutral ones. That’s part of the reason this game is still in Alpha-State and gets with every balance patch worse.

Nothing to add. Please only experienced teams.
You can contact me via ingame-mail or forums.

Thanks

This game is still not fun to watch, not to say unwatchable.
So much clutter, no details of good plays, asuras, no risk-reward, no comeback-ability besides guildlord etc.

More than 99% of all ppl who bought the game don’t enjoy PvP. Why should that change at the gamescom? It just shows the crowd how unfinished this game is.

I hope GW3 will be GW1 with better graphics. Because this game doesn’t allow any depth without a 180° turnaround.

Darnis.4056:

displacedTitan.6897:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Katran.9186:

SPESHAL.9106:

For everything they “fixed” in the last patch…the created a new and even bigger problem.

On a macro basis, the game is now empty. They got rid of pvp ranks which makes all that effort (which was the ONLY “reward” for PvP before) wasted.

You’re kidding. PvP reward tracks are superior. Ranks mean nothing either then or now.

SPESHAL.9106:

Instead of fixing underwater combat.

Even if it has an ideal balance and stuff – underwater physics and smooth of movements will kill all fun. Don’t kid yourself.

Reward Tracks only rewards the casuals like you, not the actual core of PvP (which is again a huge let down from A-Net). Second Underwater-Combat is still broken. Taking hotjoin or PvE/WvW as a POV of your experience is pretty unaccurate.

Here I thought the hardcore crowd always tells people how they don’t need rewards to play PvP…

When a hardcore player says rewards he probably means More tournaments like Mistleague, a real ladder and some sort of meaning attached to Leaderboards.
Not hardcore dressup endgame fantasies. (Although I love me some dressup)

atleast someone that understands basic incentives…

This company just can’t admit faults. Even when they’re so obvious like this one.

Katran.9186:

SPESHAL.9106:

For everything they “fixed” in the last patch…the created a new and even bigger problem.

On a macro basis, the game is now empty. They got rid of pvp ranks which makes all that effort (which was the ONLY “reward” for PvP before) wasted.

You’re kidding. PvP reward tracks are superior. Ranks mean nothing either then or now.

SPESHAL.9106:

Instead of fixing underwater combat.

Even if it has an ideal balance and stuff – underwater physics and smooth of movements will kill all fun. Don’t kid yourself.

Reward Tracks only rewards the casuals like you, not the actual core of PvP (which is again a huge let down from A-Net). Second Underwater-Combat is still broken. Taking hotjoin or PvE/WvW as a POV of your experience is pretty unaccurate.

You misspelled “2 months”.

I can feel your pain

jebro.6370:

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

jebro.6370:

Pvp isnt dead.

Last weeks ESL weekly cup gave us 8 teams, the first time in a few months now tbh.

The reason people feel its dead is maybe they see a lot of the top end players have left or arent playing as much.

And you know they’re right mate…come on more viewers for 2v2 ESL last night than for 5v5, and this means that hom is now full of pvers (The ones who care most about dueling, 2v2 and all that stuff)…good teams still are those made up from old players i actually can’t see totally new teams going somewhere near to ele, tcg and so on…we just must thanks those guys for still playing but competitive pvp is going nowhere..if not dieing for sure it’s not growing at all…and the reasons are well known since one year ago pretty much…but long story short: This pvp is boring, filled up with no skill casual friendly cheese (Favoring random spam and hardcounters instead of skilled play) and there are no rewards to push someone into competitive side. But now it’s really too late to do something…this pvp is already ruined, they killed it on 15th patch and gg…nothing left to save..

This is very opinion based I understand, but sometimes its good to step back.

I dont feel as if its boring and the same as usual. But thats just my viewpoint.

Team Exaltation is a good example of a great up and coming team and some others.

Check the last two podcasts I did with TCG and BooN. Both teams agreeing at times that the meta atm is definitely more fun and varied.

I respect your opinion, just saying Im not sure the community spvp wise is really repped well in this thread, I play with many people in the community that are actually having a lot of fun atm, but what I think most people are talking about is really the high end competitive crew of gw2.

That population really is small guys Im afraid in comparison to the numbers that casually are playing, can you blame Anet for not focusing on that top 10/5% of the GW2 community?

I think theres big change coming. All Ill say is just wait and see

Well, from my point of view I think that the high-end of PvP feels the same like the guy above.
New teams like exaltation are just filling the blank space that the older top-teams created by leaving. To have a good PvP you need to take both POV’s (casual and competitive) into consideration, while A-Net is only focusing to get PvE-Players into PvP. And PvP withouth competition is as boring as sports without competition (e.g. Formel 1 this year).

A-Nets strategy is not sustainable, but leaves the actual core of PvP, the dedicated players that only PvP, frustrated and left alone. There is no cooperation between the ppl that actually understand the game and A-Net. Why do you think changes like the Dhuumfire-patch or immobilize-stacking has found its way into the game?

Allthough I like the optimism of you, there is no change seeable in the near future, that would make this game interesting again. Only thing that gets ppl back will be the ToL 2. Again not a sustainable way of doing it.

We are in this state for 8 months now. Skill-ceilling of classes are non-existant, which makes this game unfunny, stale and boring. Powercreep paired with spammable abilities don’t create any class-depth. Classes today are too independent and prevent good teamplay and coordination from happening.

This game and its potential was completely wasted. I doubt PvP will ever recover from those 2 years, where literally nothing has changed. Still unfinished and in beta.

Your suggestion is the same as it was before-patch. And there was already no incentive to play. It wouldn’t make a difference at all.

1 Fix only: Remove it for the gods sake. Casuals should have a better choice instead of this zerg-fest where ppl don’t learn anything.

Still no tutorial in basic-mechanics for beginners, still no option to play against bots, no Guides or Build-Suggestions. This leaves people without a clue. And when they try to make the next step by joining soloQ or TeamQ, they literally get crushed or flamed by more experienced players.
This system just poorly thought out in my opinion.

Progression is the word

awge.3852:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Back in the old days good rangers were rare due to the high skill-ceiling of the class.

Nowadays it’s more or less to know where to put the RezzSpirit, interrupt/support rezzes with the pet and press 1. Besides that you can spam evades all over the place. So competitive . . .

In that sense then you can compare it to any other player from another profession who has a solid build… then it falls in the area of ‘I don’t know what I am doing but #1 for the win!"… that’s not the center point of why people hate on rangers.

It’s the source of cheesy builds, that don’t need much practice and skill to be effective. So it’s one of the central issues why people hate this class. Same reason ppl hate Warriors nowadays, because of the Healing-Signet, aka “I can make so many faults and still survive”.

Overall: Spam, passive abilities and AI

This issue exists since release. It’s good you give an answer to this topic, but I’m pretty sure this feature won’t make it this year. Same with every redpost that appears on the forum.

Back in the old days good rangers were rare due to the high skill-ceiling of the class.

Nowadays it’s more or less to know where to put the RezzSpirit, interrupt/support rezzes with the pet and press 1. Besides that you can spam evades all over the place. So competitive . . .

DaliIndica.9041:

Valentin.2073:

no, it doesnt. you are trying to tell us a history about the meta that you obviously dont have enough knowledge. im gonna tell you this ranger has never been out of the meta. we are hanging by a thread now but the class is still in the meta. ranger was represented at the recent TOL and at the pax tourney in 2013, there was even a team that chose to run double ranger.

So I am a PVE player then am I? with over 2000 hours of nothing but pvp. I have about 150 gold, pretty much all the map left unknown, but all bar the guardian pvp titles and reaper ransacker etc. Yeah, oh and champion brawler for winning 1000 arena games.

Yeah, i am such a non-pvp player. Maybe in NA you guys struggle with ranger pets a few months ago (lol, before they even fixed them up, they are still easy to avoid).

Spirits had potential but only in a team utilising them. Double ranger was cheese that was always easy to beat, you simply watch a few streams of some players and assume thats how it really is. Talking utter nonsense.

You just discredited yourself by saying Ranger needs skills in order to be effective. (not want to discredit your achievements and experience in PvP generally though)
Still, have you ever seen a Spirit Ranger or a BM Ranger in their glorious days? You should rethink your statement.

I think the rage is more about burning and the access to it. It has the highest dot-damage and the application is heavily supported through passive traits and abilities (see Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, Ranger mainly).
The easy application makes it one of the most important sources of damage. Many builds like Hambow or Kit-Engineers make it nearly impossible to cleanse burning effectively, just because it is too easy to apply at such a fast rate, while able to spam other conditions simultaneously.

Bleeding and other conditions allow counter-play and need skill to set at the right moment. Burning doesn’t (some rare active applications like Dhuumfire excluded).

The development has clearly no idea what to do with this game. Also they refuse to cooperate with the community and especially with ppl that have an idea about the game. Otherwise they wouldn’t move in a circle for 2 years . . .

problem of this development: they have no idea about their own game, but keep talking there will be huge updates and patches… remember, just the tip of the iceberg.

Even with seasons and coordinated leagues, this game has no incentive. There is no reward for investing time and effort to play as a team. There is no reward for being good at it. And there is no progression and depth regarding skill. Learning a class in 2-3 days is just laughable and should never happen in a game that only contains 8 of them.

dead game is dead

This game has no future regarding PvP. There are just too many things that have to be done. If we look at the pace of updates and the understanding this development has of its own game, then you either quit or accept that this game is only for casuals and not for dedicated pvp-players that search for depth.

Acgsev.6931:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Would this work as a pre-match filter for matchmaking, or as a map vote system?

Map vote is way better. Pre-match filter is just going to make it so queues take longer.

^

Agree with everything. But it would take too much work to actually restructure the whole game, if we look at the little work they did in 2 years. I suggest to quit the game like I and many others did and wait for GW3.

With the current development and the company behind it, this game has absolutely no future PvP-wise.

You missspelled the thread-title. It should be “PvP” instead of “Hotjoin”

The faster you realize that this development and the company behind it is just looking for more profit and not for players satisfaction, the sooner you stop posting suggestions. It’s a pure timewaste and will not find its way into the game.

What you really wanna avoid is to stay on a capped node and be left alone doing nothing. I see many players doing that, especially in soloq (sometimes even in teamq). This is one of the most common mistakes made by players.
Also note that Guardian is relatively weak in 1v1’s. Semi-bunkers like Eles, Warriors, Engineers or Rangers fullfill that role much better, as there is a potential to win these 1v1’s.

So the general rule to rotation is: after a won teamfight. You watch between your two capped nodes. After a lost teamfight you need to watch where your team wanna push and follow them.

There are many other rotations that come with experience, class-knowledge and sometimes strategic intelligence but are really situational. Conquest-rotations are pretty complicated in this game and a huge reason why so many ppl have problems to get into PvP.
I suggest to watch guardian-streams or to find Tournament matches on twitch (like ESL or ToL) and observe Guardian rotations.

+1, this has to be gone. Still see too many players multi-capping etc.

this thread is such a facepalm . . .

Welcome to power-creep!

This game will never be e-sports. Not only because the development is incapable to understand the game properly, but don’t invest enough time and resources into PvP and the whole setup with conquest is not beginner friendly.