Guild Wars 2

Dahkeus.8243:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Phantaram.1265:

Guardian bunker is a great role to have in the game. A bunker that can support and rez teammates all at once, it’s the only one that has ever been able to do it well enough solo.

The goal should be to make some other classes be able to do what the guardian does just in a different way.

Spirit Ranger has its Spirit / AoE-fear with luck, Engi has stealth and knock-backs / stuns, thief has refuge, about warrior we don’t even have to start, eles “were” in the old days with mist-form as effective as guardians were, mesmers have distortion / daze.
Necromancers are the only ones being pretty weak at it, due to the fact of having no stability in viable builds. Only Plague.

Imagine these classes would go full-bunker. They would perform nearly as well as Guardians do. The only difference is instant blocks and stability. The difference in rezzing is balanced in the higher damage-output these classes have.

Thief as a bunker is terrible. They have almost no stability/protection and rely too heavily on stealth, which doesn’t contest points. There’s a reason that a bunker thief has never been a viable spec.

Thieves can reliably stomp enemies, but only when there’s not a ton of AoE cleave damage going on since they can’t tank it like other classes can.

True, but I just made a hypothetical comparison, not pointing out, that most of these classes don’t even have any viable bunker-speccs.

Forsaker.9213:

what we got after over year??
-broken leeder
-broken soloq via bad match making
-worse and worse balance every patch

So yeah as a guy who play only pvp i have the right to be frustrated.

Indeed. Especially when they claim this game to be Triple-A. Biggest joke in history of gaming. Blizzard is definitely laughing at you for ruining your own Company-name with a product , that is, compared to its predecessor, a shame for having the same Name.

So you want us all to reroll engineer? Really interesting and skillfull for sure. Makes definitely fun. Now stop trolling the forum and go elsewhere.

Phantaram.1265:

Guardian bunker is a great role to have in the game. A bunker that can support and rez teammates all at once, it’s the only one that has ever been able to do it well enough solo.

The goal should be to make some other classes be able to do what the guardian does just in a different way.

Spirit Ranger has its Spirit / AoE-fear with luck, Engi has stealth and knock-backs / stuns, thief has refuge, about warrior we don’t even have to start, eles “were” in the old days with mist-form as effective as guardians were, mesmers have distortion / daze.
Necromancers are the only ones being pretty weak at it, due to the fact of having no stability in viable builds. Only Plague.

Imagine these classes would go full-bunker. They would perform nearly as well as Guardians do. The only difference is instant blocks and stability. The difference in rezzing is balanced in the higher damage-output these classes have.

1. Yes it is meta, but not the bad one. It is bunkerish but not making tons of damage as other builds/classes like Warriors or Spirit-Rangers do.

2. AoE spability and good AoE heal / condition-remove

3. I play guardian myself

Nick.6972:

How hard could it possibly be to recreate HA maps and HA game mode in GW2?
Underworld map was literally just a square.

Although it would probably end up being a huge cluster * of skill effects.

No source of active healing / protting, that’s why. Just blast-finishers on a water-field. Personally I don’t see that Hype from HA coming back into GW2. Especially with about 4 Teams left.

Romek.4201:

Forsaker.9213:

Lets be honest , we are completly ignored , non of sugestion made here on forum was not implemented even those realy good one that would improve the game. …

nope, thats not true

i made the suggestion the first day tome of knowledge dropped me in wvw from a chest or event or was it a livingstory world event? karka event? ( cant remember anymore) to sell this in sPvp for glory – and look they did it^^

my suggestion was bigger like:
1 lvl per tome deer
2 lvl per tome Dolyak
3 lvl per tome ….

and so on and we can sell it in TP to make money

but still, i love they just sell it^^

Gold won’t change the misserable state of PvP. The dedicated PvP-Players never aimed for gold, it’s a cool accessory but not more. I think Forsaker talks about Balance-Suggestion from players that were ignored, and in my opinion the biggest reason why this game is doomed to fail. The game is not funy anymore, because the builds are not.

We gave A-Net so many suggestions on balance, but they always made their own decisions, completely ignoring the community. And now look at how angry the community is (well…the small rest that is still playing). They made the Balance worse and worse, with every patch.
But yeah, I already saw that coming by watching the SOTG’s and the balance-patch afterwards. Zero kittens were given on the opinion of a top-player.

jebro.6370:

Bottom line is guys, why should it be taken out? is it because:

1, It has little to no use in team fights
2, Cant kill a kitten on its back waving a white flag
3, Its sole purpose is to decap

A guardian can bunker a point 1v2 for a matter of time, Isn’t that similar/the same?

Just because an engi has CC and knocks that make up for a use of utility or team support why should that get taken away? I have seen currently 1 team use it in streamed fights since its been around. Imho this is a spec which will slowly phase out but be changed here and there according to team makeup and personal fun/preference.

Whoever said this is similar to HamBow is also having a Giraffe. HamBow has sustained dps and survivability. Engi decapper has Survivability, CC and that’s it. If you die to this spec then your doing it wrong. Also if you run it in Skyhammer you’ve won, I understand that frustration all too well. Generally people don’t like a build they QQ until it goes away, personally id rather find a way to combat it and fight on, would a team bring in a decap engi over a more useful team player? i think no…

Hambow and Decap-Engineer are in the same boat skillwise. The problem of the decap-engineer doesn’t rely around high-tier-teams (because they know how to handle such a build good enough, or the opponent is too bad to take an advantage of it). It’s more about lower-tiered Teams. There a decap-engineer can cause advantage by taking out 2 players to kill it, while having a 3v4 teamfight on the mid-node.

The build doesn’t require much skill nor tactical knowledge, therefore is quite effective in the lower-tier. Also the build is not in any possible way fun to play against. Same goes for HamBow. Makes me sad that a shoutcaster doesn’t see any problem with this build.

GW1 balance had more depth, made more fun and required more skill. I can promise that every new game-mode A-Net will introduce into GW2 will fail hard. Hope they can bring the old glamour back into GW3, because this game will never be a success pvp-wise.

After Skyhammer and Spiritwatch, definitely new gamemode. Anyway, if the development keeps the same pace it will mabye arrive in gw3 I guess

When you are at it, lower the waiting time to 30 – 15 seconds.

Fasyx.9347:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

No skill required, 100% effectiveness, spammable CC, no skill ceiling at all.
Reminds me of HamBow.

I dont play an engineer but engineers(and eles) are probably the hardest classes to play with and/or to master.

Stop commenting without reading the OP. You clearly didn’t get the context of my post. We talk about bunker-decap-engineers, not other builds.

Dahkeus.8243:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

No skill required, 100% effectiveness, spammable CC, no skill ceiling at all.
Reminds me of HamBow.

Engis actually probably require more skill than most other classes to really play well. Sure, the build is powerful and, as a result, still viable even in less capable hands, but the skill cap for playing the build well is much, much, much higher than hambow.

I wasn’t specific enough here, my bad. You don’t have to play good to reach an absurd level of effectiveness.. That goes far beyond of the limit of a warrior.

And ye, if you bring skill with you, than you will be more effective, same goes for every build. The problem is, that in the actual meta with the warriors, there is no real counter to this build, besides a mesmer (which is rarely played in the meta).

So These are not really good arguments you brought up. And we don’t talk about kit-engineer in this thread, that requires definitely more skill

No skill required, 100% effectiveness, spammable CC, no skill ceiling at all.
Reminds me of HamBow.

I’d like to see temple out of the rotation, it favors independent comps (ranger, warrior) instead of teambased-comps (burst-specs). Maybe add BM-Ranger to forbidden builds, it’s pure cheese.

KarsaiB.9475:

Anet should implement a ban option for each player to individually ban 1 or 2 maps he doesn’t want to play on.

Problem solved

Kshaja.5196:

You don’t have to be top 100 to realize something’s off, apart from balance problems spvp gets boring fast, point fighting just brings too many bunker builds.

From a viewer pov, which I have had to experience in last two weeks, I can say this much: This game is boring as hell to watch, there is absolutely no moments in game where you hold your breath and experience excitment, only moments I actually found mildly interesting were on Legacy of the Foefire map where killing a lord is such moment in time that decides the game.

Indeed!

HamBow is completely fine !!!

Jon Peters already told us Spirit Ranger is hard to play . . . A-Net has no connection to the reality of the game. Otherwise the past patches would have solved balance problems instead of creating more.

You listed things that we shouldn’t pay for, but the development should have fixed ages ago.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Mrbig.8019:

Because, let’s be honest, aside wars totally ruining the meta and some brainless spamming proffs ( spirit ranger, S/D thieves, disabling shot spam and necros, which are pretty balanced overall anyway) balance is not that off.

So they want to shake up things and see what happens.

Reasonable, if i can say.

You listed 4 classes as brainless meta-ruining, yet balance is not that off? That’s 50% of the classes.

Yep, shows me clearly how off the balance is. All these specs are played by 60-80% in a team-comp. Tell me again how good the Balance is in this game . . .

ronpierce.2760:

Deimos, I’m just going to say it… Your sense of balance is terrible. You’re constantly defending broken unfun mechanics, and typically because you abuse them. Also this isn’t rock paper scissor. Its paper (conditions) can sometimes cover rock, or Rock (other) sometimes penetrates the paper. Rock can cause a gun (AR engi) to miss fire, or the gun can blow it to pieces, but pretty much always the gun destroys the paper without the paper even having a chance to blow away… That’s…. Not balance. No one likes Rock Paper Gun balance.

+1

Dirame.8521:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

BlackBeard.2873:

I don’t play necro, so excuse any ignorance, although I have watched and listened to necros quite a while. Back for dhuumfire patch, wasn’t the ONLY thing necros every asked for were:
1. An extra cover-condi for their bleeds (and got 2 that also do damage: burning AND torment)
2. More ways to survive when focused (at least a little bit)

So, now that Anet is taking away passive-procs of burning, while also making necros (which are SUPER-TANKY given the condi-pressure they put out) trade some defense if they want to condi-burst, isn’t that a good thing. I understand the risk about reducing some of the bleed procs, but were bleeds ever reduced, even slightly, when torment was added?

I understand necro is in kind of a weird place. In some ways, they are WAY too tanky given the pressure they output. In other ways, however, they have no survivability and melt when focused (although less so than a zerk staff ele, who plays the same role).

Regardless, the nerfs that are happening, including vigor nerfs, are an excellent thing for the game in my view. Normalized most specs towards a balanced spec (i.e. burst has less burst and bunker has less survivability) is a great thing that helps remove cheese and introduce more skill into the game.

The main problem doesn’t rely on burning, but rather on fear-chains. I don’t get why A-Net wants to change dhummfire instead of terror. And to even out the damage-loss give it better mobility or some survivability-options.

Because Terror is more “in the hands of the player” than Burning. Terror only procs when you’re feared, dodge at the right time and Terror does not even affect you. Condi cleanse or stun break and Terror only ticks for a tiny fraction of it’s damage. Dhuumfire was a chance based proc that required little input from the player to activate.

What I just read? Tell me how you dodge reaper’s mark and doom? You can’t dodge that. If there were obvious animations that could be dodged I wouldn’t say anything.
However, I agree on the random proc, which is a bad design. But burning is making the necro still viable . . .

BlackBeard.2873:

I don’t play necro, so excuse any ignorance, although I have watched and listened to necros quite a while. Back for dhuumfire patch, wasn’t the ONLY thing necros every asked for were:
1. An extra cover-condi for their bleeds (and got 2 that also do damage: burning AND torment)
2. More ways to survive when focused (at least a little bit)

So, now that Anet is taking away passive-procs of burning, while also making necros (which are SUPER-TANKY given the condi-pressure they put out) trade some defense if they want to condi-burst, isn’t that a good thing. I understand the risk about reducing some of the bleed procs, but were bleeds ever reduced, even slightly, when torment was added?

I understand necro is in kind of a weird place. In some ways, they are WAY too tanky given the pressure they output. In other ways, however, they have no survivability and melt when focused (although less so than a zerk staff ele, who plays the same role).

Regardless, the nerfs that are happening, including vigor nerfs, are an excellent thing for the game in my view. Normalized most specs towards a balanced spec (i.e. burst has less burst and bunker has less survivability) is a great thing that helps remove cheese and introduce more skill into the game.

The main problem doesn’t rely on burning, but rather on fear-chains. I don’t get why A-Net wants to change dhummfire instead of terror. And to even out the damage-loss give it better mobility or some survivability-options.

Emapudapus.1307:

HPLT.7132:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Take Diamond-Skin, Berserker-Stance and the rest of hard-counters with it.

I agree or at least berserker stance should work like shield block, so that the warrior cannot attack during this time. This traits are gamechangers, a total noob can win against experienced players just due to that.

Or just reduce dmg they do by x% for each stance active. I propose 10% for start. And yeah those perma condi immunity must go.

Exactly… The condition reduction should be limited to 80-90% on zerk-stance, or that it negates every condition-duration excluding the ones that are buffed (for e.g. by Lyssa-runes or traitlines).

Chicago Jack.5647:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Not to mention bursting down an engi (with automated response) without dhuumfire is really really hard. You really need that burning proc for this :/

A necro having trouble killing an engi? Lol, this guy…

Get some knowledge first, and then talk . . .

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior is the best class by some distance in pvp. Ok that is not an opinion but an opinion accepted as fact.

Warrior has a 5 second weapon swap duration. Other classes have 10 seconds +

Have anet considered that removing the shared cooldowns on swap sigils will be a huge buff to warrior compared to everything else. Imagine a warrior with energy/battle and geomancy/leeching. Or whatever. It really is frightening.

The buffs a warrior will receive in this way will be double that of any other class. So removing the sigil shared cd is in fact an epic buff to warriors as opposed to other classes. Even if the sigils are weakened to compensate then a warrior will STILL get the best of it.

This patch will ruin the balance even more. Sigils affect the balance so heavily, there is so much to consider when implementing such a new system. I think there will be a big mess. Also it will keep the balance-team busy, which doesn’t solve the actual problem of balance (sigils were never a problem of balance).

This has left me pretty confused, because I don’t get their concept of fixing the balance . . . by creating another problem?

Main problem with balance? They don’t talk well enough with the community… how else things like dhumfire nerf or Diamond-Skin find its way into this game? All these changes that noone ever mentioned find their way into the game while all the actual suggestions we made, are being ignored (atleast most of them)

Looks to me like GW1. The lack of the trinity is also the reason why deathmatch in this game will fail, due to no active healing/protting.

+1

why you hype the next balance patch? There will be another mess with sigils… nothing that could help the balance, such as nerfs to warrior or finally remove MM and Spirit-Ranger from PvP.
No, A-Net decides to ignore the problems they created and just starts creating a new one!!!! kittening awsm Concept, so gooooood.

GW1 is still miles better and still has more competition and Teams in it.

Quincy.2198:

Noc.2459:

One dev mentioned that he fixed the bug which prevented rank points from tournament wins to count towards the title.

Why was it not in this patch, huh?

Good one, they did nothing as always.

Sometimes nothing is better than something. History in GW2-Balance learned us this lesson :P

Who the kitten cares about achievement points, but the addicted ones that actually collect the points? kitten I just read.

up

A-Net: Company that needs a kittening month to do something that a 15-year old with a bit of game-understanding could do in one day. Pathetic development, no excuses on this!

so pro. much change. wow

mini.6018:

That is not proof of him being afk.I think you should get an infraction for ilegitimely report players.

haha… thanks for the laugh!

Decrypter.1785:

I played in the 6v6 GVG tourney and it was awsome , even tho we lost there is so much more build diversity and support play , ATM conquest is just bunk points so i hope they build on this gvg Success

Thanx to bloodytech/anet/esl

The problem with it: it’s passive Support. You don’t need to actually play actively to heal and prott your allies as it was in GW1 the case. That will be a serious problem for deathmatch here.

Vigor nerf is fine. However the change of “Deceptive Evasion” will be game breaking, due to the issue of uneven terrain. I can’t see why ppl think it is not. Create a mesmer and play shatter. After 10 games you will have the same opinion.

Josh Davis.6015:

@Sigil stacking – I guess we didn’t make it clear enough on stream – many of the sigils will be rebalanced to compensate for the ability to stack two of the same type.

We all know how well you balance . . .

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I play MM necro for hot join and it is cheese. I also think spirit ranger and phantasm mesmers to be cheese as well. However removing these would require a substantial amount of skill balancing which I don’t think is likely.

Well, there is no future for this PvP anyway, why waste time to balance it.

Lordrosicky.5813:

1, This stuff wont be in for ages. It is anet so probably march (lol)

2, The sigil changes are huge and just lead to power creep – imagine proccing air and fire on a single attack then getting a dodge by switching to an energy set. MASSIVE power creep.

3, They have to nerf spirit ranger if they are intent on nerfing a (not nearly as strong) minion spec. Nerfing both is a good idea, as both are skilless. But more nerfs to spirits are needed on top of the elite spirit nerf because spirits is strong and clutters up the battlefield even without the elite.

4, They finally made dhuumfire useless but in the meantime nerfed all the bleeds. This is fine, I would rather necro be over nerfed than be totally skilless. But makes you wonder about their planning.

All in all at least these changes are actually changes which could impact the game. So they should be commended. Small changes suck when the game should get large changes to keep things fresh – espicially in a pvp game without a gear grind where people can just change their build if it sucks.

Yep, another let down from A-Net. Especially the possible change to dhuumfire. Just why? Absolute nonsens, tells me again that they have clearly no idea about balance.

Rolyate.6753:

I’m sorry but this is incorrect, skill floor is the level at which the class begins at. The ceiling is how much depth is added through player experience/ability/awareness. Currently, without any of these attributes warriors are effective, even when not played to a high level.

Good warriors are easy to tell apart from the bad ones.

I do appreciate your time taken to read the thread however.

That’s what I partially said . . . kitten.
However again: Skill floor is an attribute that is given, not an indicator for difference. The skill floor is low (which is good), doesn’t matter if the class is op without any effort or not.

get out of the pvp-forum…NOW!

Rolyate.6753:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Change your title to skill ceiling, skill floor is the false word here.

Well no, I’m talking about the fact that it takes next to no player input in the beginning, as opposed to no effort to master.

Though I would agree that both are true.

Every game wants to have a low skill floor (see LoL, Dota, CS, Hearthstone etc.), there’s nothing broken about it. The “mastering” how you call it is applied to the word skill ceiling and this is the real problem.
At the moment the skill-ceiling is too low, which means that every player for eg. that plays warrior for two days will be nearly as effective as a player that is playing warrior since release.

The skill floor on the other hand is fine, as every casual can pick up a class and get pretty fast into the game. If I’ll take counter-strike for example. Every person can download it and after one day he knows the basic things. Nothing wrong with it. However he will loose to more dedicated and experienced players for sure.

And exactly this Situation is in GW2 not existing. The difference of class-level-play between casuals and dedicated players is too small. And this problem affects the SKILL-CEILING not the skill floor.

hope it is clear by now :P

If there is no incentive to team-up, all the new game-modes will be for nothing. Doesn’t matter how much gems they throw into ESL. There are constantly less than 8 Teams participating.

Why they haven’t removed Skyhammer yet? Why the Rating in the Leaderboard is still hidden? Why there is no Skill-Ceiling in this game? Why there is only one game-mode in PvP? . . .

For every question you will ask about PvP there is the one answer? PvP was unfinished at release and they couldn’t handle all the fixes and requests due to not have enough staff.