Guild Wars 2

We’re “weapon masters” – we should be able to swap weapons at will with no cooldown.

Sorry I forgot, Warriors aren’t allowed to do anything really strong that another class can’t do better. Pff.

Klinch, you can’t be serious when you say that banners are “perfect” for sPvP of all things? Really? I can’t believe you “just assign a person to pick up a certain banner” and they do so… like that, eh, Ranger is really going to run around with your Banner and oh, I’m sure that Mesmer will drag one around for you too. Jeez-oh. “Banners I think were ment to be used by any ally once the banner was summoned.” Yeah I’m sure that was the idea but come on, we Warriors know Banners, what they can do and how they work yet no one uses them, (for well-known reasons) and again, you expect team-mates to deal with them? It just doesn’t happen.

You say that the Banner re-work ideas based on making them easier to use [like a backpack] is a step in the “WRONG” direction – nonsense! What’s the point in having powerful Banners when they’re so cumbersome, disruptive and unintuitive to use? If making them slightly weaker and mounting them onto the Warrior means that more will use them then I think that’s a fair pay-off. The occasional random player/ team-mate grabbing it and running-off with it (most likely for personal Swiftness…) isn’t exactly ideal now, is it? “I tell the roamers on my team to grab my banner when they run to a small fight on another point…” Yeah, I often see Thieves running around with a Banner when they’re en-route somewhere, dropping it to fight and then going back and picking it up before carrying on with whatever they’re doing. Actually, I never see this, from any class.

Banner effects are generally fine, it’s the practicality of using them that’s in question. If ArenaNet can find a better way for us to receive the benefits they give without the hassle of the whole pick-it-up-drop-it-pick-it-up-drop-it mechanic then that’d maybe see them used to better effect. As for replacing your actual weapons skills when you’re carrying it… no, just no. My idea of a Warrior does not involve hitting enemies with a flag on the end of a wooden pole. Sorry.

@ Doopslayer – I love the idea that Banners are carried by a summon-able NPC. It’s the same mechanic that The Lord of the Rings Online used for the Captain class and his Herald: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Captain

Herald of War – A Herald of War carries your banner, increasing Might and Agility.
Herald of Hope – A Herald of Hope carries your banner, increasing Max Morale and In-Combat Morale Regeneration.
Herald of Victory – A Herald of Victory carries your banner, increasing Max Power and In-Combat Power Regeneration.
Herald Archer – A herald Archer carries a Bow to assist you with range in combat.

This is how it should be done. ArenaNet should just plagiarize this idea from them.

An Asura Thief or an Asura Mesmer.

Yeah, Warriors do have bunker builds…

… but they’re all utter bollocks.

I’ve always thought Banners would be more appropriate for Guardians and Spirit Weapons more appropriate for Warriors – Guardians stand their ground surrounded by Banners, protecting their allies while Warriors surge forward into battle, calling on Spirit Weapons to fight along side them. This would make more sense to me at least.

I genuinely believe ArenaNet has got this the wrong way round. Maybe they got confused and got the classes mixed up? As it is, Banners are quite unsuitable for the Warrior class.

Signet of Rage is the best elite Warriors have… but it still manages to be one of the worst elites in the game. Quite remarkable really.

How much would Warrior Boon-hate have to be buffed for it to be as powerful as the Thief’s Boon-hate?

A great deal I’d say.

Arganthium.5638:

@Enmity: come up with a single objective argument that doesn’t simply say “that’s BS and you know it” (especially when _you_dont know it whatsoever), and maybe then I’ll consider replying to you. Right now, all I see is the angry reply of somebody that refuses to provide evidence for his claims, an would prefer that all thieves are just generally ignored. That’s why nobody is going to believe you.

Furthermore, your biases towards me (“ohz noz, he gunna buff his claz unfarely!”) are completely nonsensical and unjustified. Assuming my class has always been overly strong, how does that imply that that would cause me to imbalance thieves in favor of us? Ridiculous, really. But the ignorance of one need not affect the ideals of the majority.

What? lol. I’ll keep it simple for you as your’re clearly having difficulty; I said your post to me read like you weren’t arguing against nerfs from an altruistic point of view, but really what you are arguing against is nerfs to your class. There is no “single objective argument” for this as it’s my own personal impression based on what you’ve written. I’ve seen many posts like yours where a case is made “for the good of all” but really, the main reason has been self-interest. It’s nothing to do with whether or not anyone believes me; people will either agree or disagree with the opinion I’ve expressed. That’s it. I thought that was quite apparent, obviously not to you though.

What claims have I made, exactly? More to the point, what have I written in my post that you disagree with? Specifically. I’ve offered my opinion as to why I think balancing requires both nerfs and buffs, as opposed to your opinion that buffing without nerfs is what should happen. To make the game fairer, the strongest classes (such as the Thief) should be subject to a few nerfs while the weaker classes (such as the Warrior) should be subject to a few buffs – the only reason you wouldn’t want to see this happen is because you like your class being stronger and you’re happy with these positions. Let me put it this way; I don’t believe you’d be arguing against nerfs if the Thief class was one of the weakest. (It’s easy to say “don’t nerf anyone” when your class is already top-tier, isn’t it?) I’m guessing you also play another trinity class like a Mesmer or a Guardian too?

Without nerfs to the strongest, the weakest would have to be over-buffed to compete. This is not something I want to see happen as it would obviously create more imbalances between the classes. Do you think build diversity within classes is more important than equal balance between classes?

However you dress it up, the Thief is one of the strongest classes and you’re asking for it not to be nerfed. By making an argument against nerfs to anyone, this is exactly what you’re asking for; No nerfs for anyone, meaning no nerfs for the strongest classes, meaning no nerfs for Thieves.

“But the ignorance of one need not affect the ideals of the majority.” That’s beautiful, did you make that up yourself? Whatever it means, I’m certain that, like me, the majority would rather see ArenaNet continue to incrementally balance the game through a series of appropriate buffs and nerfs and not, as you’d like, through simply buffing everything up to the same level.

In fact, I’ll bet right now that in this upcoming balance patch we’ll see ArenaNet do just exactly that – both nerf and buff classes where required.

Aleth.9630:

Enmity.3428:

A long-term bug was eventually fixed, causing certain Thieves cry about it, leading to the possibility of the bug being unfixed.

Is that what has happened here?

No it isn’t.
In fact, there were 3 spots where you were able to port through walls in clocktower. Two of those were “fixed”, the last one wasn’t (hint: the point>roof one); and in the meantime a most of other legit spots, where no walls were involved, got “fixed” too. Now they are either harder to pull off (more sensitive to angle/distance/positioning) or are just plain impossible.

I have no sympathy. Personally, I think teleporting through walls or any other solid structure is utter bollocks and I’m glad some of these abusive and exploitative maneuvers have been fixed. I’m also glad these other “legit spots” have become harder to hit. So, they require some skill to achieve now. Poor you. What do you want, easy-mode all the way? Heaven forbid they actually make something harder for you, eh?

“But ArenaNet knew about these exploits and didn’t do anything about them…” Well now they have, so dry your eyes.

I hope this patch changes things dramatically for Warriors…

I want to be up to my knees in Mesmer, Thief and Guardian blood after this. :P

milo.6942:

Enmity.3428:

I don’t want to see ranks either. I want the (frequently) horrendous imbalances kept hidden.

i want rating

i want fairness

I don’t want to see ranks either. I want the (frequently) horrendous imbalances kept hidden.

A long-term bug was eventually fixed, causing certain Thieves cry about it, leading to the possibility of the bug being unfixed.

Is that what has happened here?

Ah, I see the phrase “not intended.” Good.

I’ll try again, given the fact my first reply was infracted;

Arganthium, your post reads to me like you’re simply making a duplicitous and convoluted case against nerfing your precious Thief class. You’ve dressed it in a benign way whereby you plead for no nerfs, (on the basis that it’s bad for diversity,) but that’s utter rubbish, and you know it. Nerfs and buffs are required in equal measure (but not in equal distribution amongst the classes) if we want to have a fair game for all.

What did you expect? For Warriors (such as myself) to come on here and comment in support of the argument you’ve made? Seriously?

“Yeah cool, don’t nerf anyone, not even the most powerful classes like Thieves, Mesmers and Guardians who have always been top-tier and very strong because, you know, as a Warrior I’ve loved being absolute dogsh*t since launch and I definitely do not want to see these “overpowered” classes weakened at all. Keep them strong, I love being cannon-fodder for them."

You’ve a crazy idea of “balance” if you think that simply buffing will make the game fairer. All that’ll lead to is a frantic DPS maelstrom at a time when ArenaNet want to calm the pace of the game down. A few small nerfs here and there and a few small buffs here and there makes far more sense than over-buffing, does it not? Balance requires that certain skills, traits, weapons, etc., which have proven to be too strong are weakened and at the same time certain skills, traits, weapons, etc., which are proven to be underpowered are given a boost. I suspect that given the fact your class is already (and always has been) very strong that you’d like the imbalance to remain in your favour.

Broad diversity within classes without an even balance between classes is worthless. Look at the Warrior – we have some great build diversity but all of them are comparably sub-par against classes with even one strong build to speak of. By it’s very nature, nerfing something automatically buffs something else and this is the foundation of balance. You can’t have one without the other.

Arganthium

(Warr is a class, which, btw, is commonly considered one of the worst off in sPvP)

Every single one of my posts on this subject has stated this exact thing, so I’m lost as to what point you’re making here? I’ve never said, in any way, that I’m “confident that the UP warrior can easily crush thieves.”, which is why I find it amusing you go on to criticise my level of reading comprehension. Right back at you.

Oh, and I’ll “go learn” some reading comprehension when you go and learn some proper grammar. Cheers.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

are we forgetting that guild wars 2 is a team game?

warriors can easily cut down a victim provided that the warrior’s team mates have locked down the victim in place, exhausted the victim’s stun breakers, escape moves etc.

It’s a team game where half the fights do not involve a team, but are between two or three players. In PvP at least. Put another way, it’s a team game where one class above all others needs the support of team-mates to function successfully. Having one or two other players follow the Warrior around at all times (to hide the glaring flaws of the class) is not only unrealistic, but ridiculous.

Look at the way other classes can function well solo and can function even better with the support of team-mates. Mesmers, Thieves, Guardians, Elementalists, etc. do not have to rely on anything but their class mechanics and the individual skill of the player. You cannot say the same about the Warrior.

Reliance of one class upon another does not equate to balance, quite the opposite in fact – the absence of another class to support [babysit] the Warrior creates a definite imbalance.

Is this maybe more of a problem on North American servers? Having been in-game nearly every day since launch I have been subject to one comment that I’d describe as rude or abusive. None of my friends and very few in my Guild have experienced this type of behaviour either. Maybe Desolation is a friendlier server than others? I don’t know.

I do remember that “The Lord of the Rings Online” had separate forums for European and American players and that the atmosphere, attitudes and mood of the two were completely different. In fact as I recall, many American players joined the European forums as it was generally a far more civil place.

But back on topic – why does anyone care what a random stranger says to them in a game? Block them and forget about it.

Ahhh, Mesmers and Thieves… two of the best classes while on their feet, two of the best classes when downed. What a surprise.

Warriors, lol. Throwing rocks is only useful if your [single opponent’s] health is dangerously low. All other times it’s useless.

The Hammer Toss? Ineffective. It’s clearly telegraphed by holding the hammer up in the air (for what seems like ages) – it’s like holding a sign saying, “I’m going to try and knock you down – dodge now please.”

Often, even after a successful knock-down, you’ll not have enough time to pop-off Vengeance – your opponent has got back up and stomped you before you’ve channelled the skill. As for traiting for a 100% Rally if you make the kill while in Vengeance? No, just no. When Vengeance ends the Warrior should return to the Downed state – it should be your enemies task to kill you, not to wait it out for the guaranteed suicide.

Having said this, hopefully the upcoming balance patch will address the survivability and sustain of the Warrior so we aren’t downed as much in the first place. We’ll see.

When I opened this thread I expected the overwhelming majority of replies to be in recognition of just how good a place Mesmers are in, and what a strong class it is in PvP.

How silly of me. Instead, I have found a thread full of gratuitous and pathetic whiners.

Mesmers complaining about nerf after nerf… and yet still remain one of the most powerful classes in PvP. Contrast this with Warriors, who have received buff after buff… and yet are still unarguably the weakest class in PvP.

Absolutely f’king laughable.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I don’t know if the right way to go about it by nerfing SB, but maybe buffing other weapons to give them mobility and blast finishers or more ways to survive. Currently SB can do all this for the thief; be very mobile around a map, stealth you with pistol 5 and SB 2, tons of evade, and good damage in team fights. The reason it seems so good is because no other weapon set can compare. And no other weapons have as much synergy as the SB do.

The same goes for D/P. That is the perfect example of how a weapon set should be. Using every single weapon skill together at all times.

Yeah, the way to balance Thieves better is to buff their other weapons.

Are you for real?

A lot of the time it’s not really Player vs. Player, more like Player vs. Player + AI.

In fact, it’s not too dissimilar to PvE – only with another player attacking you as well. I personally feel there are too many “non-human” players in PvP and yes, it gives a massive advantage to certain classes. I realize that pets, minions, etc. are intrinsic to some classes but really, I’d just like to fight other people and not enemy mobs and other people at the same time.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Redundancy
/thread

Oh look, a single word, end thread reply.

- slow clap -

^^ I now realise that I’ve just said the exact same thing in two vastly different ways.

Caedmon.6798:

I never said there isn’t anything wrong with warrior,the class can use lots of fixes.I’m just saying,that i myself have no problem soloing most classes,except mesmers as our skill system currently is..that alot of people “struggle” to do 1vs1,is simply a matter of learning your class .Warriors are also Far from being the worst class as you say.It’s all a matter of Learning Your class and knowing wich weapons to pick vs what classes and build,despite being the underdog of pvp.That you are better with one class then playing the warrior class,doesn’t mean that everyone is facing that same problem.But whats up with these laughable responses like “Being talented and so awesome” for saying someone is able to do 1vs1 ? As in the other thread,saying you can do 1vs1 makes you apparantly a “uber elist warrior”….So be it i guess.

It’s not just a matter of learning your class – this is not solely a “l2p” issue. You acknowledge yourself that there are things wrong with the Warrior. You say it “can use lots of fixes.” Then you call the class the “underdog” of PvP. So what’s it to be? Poor players or an underdog class? From where I’m sitting the latter offers the most accurate explanation. The fact that you have no problems soloing most classes says nothing about the design of the class. All that says is that you’re a good player. (Well done.)

It’s not just me who says that Warriors are the worst PvP class, it’s nearly everyone, and we’re not all wrong and we all don’t need to just “l2p.” If you doubt what I say is true, you need to take a step back, try to see beyond your own experience and ask yourself some questions like; Why is the Warrior forum is full of players who are having problems with the class? Why do all other classes consistently rate Warriors as the bottom-tier class? Why are there are so few Warriors in tournament play? Why do most teams prefer to take another class over a Warrior? Why are there virtually no Warriors in high-end tournaments? Why have ArenaNet said the pretty much the same thing and why are they giving Warriors so much attention in the next balance patch?

The answers to all these questions lead to the unavoidable conclusion that this isn’t simply a matter of players learning their class, but that the Warrior class itself is the main problem.

P.S. There’s nothing wrong with being an Über-Elite-Warrior, the problem is the derisory attitude that so often goes with it.

Callahan.3180:

You make a great argument and I understand many of your valuable points. I will not deny the facts as you are completely right. I wouldn’t hold your breath on class balance lol. It is a very slow process and I feel like they’d rather put out garbage dungeons that last a week than focus on something that’s actually valuable. Atleast that’s how the last few patches have been.. sigh.

I cannot argue with you in spvp, but from my experience in WvW, I have encountered a lot of success in solo roaming. I wish my computer was good enough to handle streaming, or else I totally would. There are many steps you can take to put yourself in a better situation than most of the opponents you face. I just happen to know a lot of them. I’ll be making an example video next with annotations to help others. A lot of playing warrior is also how good you are with game knowledge and builds that other people use. Once you’ve played around with some of the skills a mesmer, thief, or guardian has, you’ll know how to counter some of them. Of course there is the occasional skilled player on a certain strong class such as a mesmer, and those fights I won’t win, but I can try. I’ll show some of those videos as well.

I disagree that “most of these videos are largely irrelevant,” because it highlights some of the steps I take to put myself in a better situation than some of the opponents I face. Once and whenever warrior finally gets a fix, gameplay knowledge and positioning will still play a great role in how well you do in solo WvW. Just because it’s an under powered class doesn’t mean there aren’t ways you can use to win. I exploit the hell out of terrain just to live. I take pride in that because we’re one of the few classes that can.

That’s a reasonable reply and I’ve taken on board a lot of the points you’ve made.

When all’s said and done, I guess one of my main issues with the Warrior forum comes from the attitude of the “elite” players, whereby they mock and deride other players for, essentially, not being as good at the game as they (apparently) are. It’s a strange and arrogant mentality.

No one’s saying that you cannot do well with the Warrior class but it’s almost universally acknowledged that to do so requires a lot of individual skill on the part of the player. Fine, but when you have this one class in the game that demands such dedication, practice, ability and concentration to succeed when other classes do not require such “hardcore” skills, then that is neither fair nor balanced. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Why should Warriors have to be far superior players than their opponents to do well?

Should we just accept that to play and enjoy the Warrior class as readily and as easily as playing any other class we have to possess a much higher level of skill? Of course not. I have no problem with highly-skilled players achieving good results with the Warrior – I do have a problem with these players abusing those who aren’t doing so well and I also have a problem with them holding the class up against their own level of skill and claiming that the problem lies with the players, not the class. As I’ve said, you can’t use skill to measure balance. You can only achieve balance through solid, well designed class mechanics. Right now, this is something the Warrior lacks.

Zelulose.8695:

Enmity.3428:

Invisibility doesn’t offer a massive, massive advantage in a fight. Nope, not at all.

I agree its simply annoying.

Actually, I was being sarcastic. Of course it offers a massive bloody advantage in a fight.

And yeah, it is annoying too.

ManCaptain.3154:

With thief it’s the combination of everything. Many times I’ve fought 1v1 and I couldn’t land more than 1 skill on them every few sec, even with a build full of daze and stuns. Thief can open out of stealth on me and deal a ton of damage for free. If I use stun or anything they simply use their sword #2 again. If that’s down there’s still shadow step. It’s frustrating to fight when they are always either invisible, evading, dodging, or you’re dazed. If you land anything they teleport away, stunbreaking of course. They also shed conditions while invis and they steal your boons. It’s pretty ridiculous.

The damage is not huge, but it’s enough to take down non-bunkers and bunkers have no chance to kill them anyway. I’m against nerfs to their damage, I just want to be able to use my kitten skills on them, right now it feels like there’s nothing I can do.

You’re right in everything you say.

“Thief can open out of stealth on me and deal a ton of damage for free.”

It’s not free, it’s cheap.

Usual Thief response: “l2p”

Invisibility doesn’t offer a massive, massive advantage in a fight. Nope, not at all.

Caedmon.6798:

Here it is mate https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/How-are-Warriors-in-1v1/page/3 As you see,most people say it impossible to 1vs1,warriors are bad,theyre a joke etc etc…yawn yawn.All l2p issues yet people act like they know it all and blame the class for their own lack of skill.

You’re lying, aren’t you? No one in that thread says that it’s “impossible” for Warriors to fight and win duels against other classes – what most are saying is that they struggle badly. The problems that the majority of Warriors are having are normally more to do with the relatively poor design limitations of the class against the comparatively superior design of other classes. Lack of skill on the part of the player isn’t the definitive factor simply for the reason that your opponent (in any given scenario) can be either far better or far worse than yourself, and all the areas in between. Undoubtedly, in many cases poor playing-skills are the problem, but don’t try and b*llsh*t us that’s the real issue with the class.

These videos posted-up which show Warriors killing other classes with ease – are we to believe that these opponents are all highly skilled, talented players? Or could they be absolutely terrible players? Who knows, and that’s why most of these videos are largely irrelevant. Cherry-picking a video of a Warrior beating a couple of opponents in WvWvW doesn’t prove that the Warrior class is fine as it is. I play amateur football – if you video’d me through the course of the season and edited together a highlights package of my best bits I’d almost look world-class. But I am not.

So are Warriors bad? Generally speaking, no. Warriors excel in PvE and are a capable class in WvWvW. The problem (and where most of the complaints justifiably originate from) is that Warriors are unarguably the worst class in PvP. This is not solely my opinion, but the consensus opinion of the Warrior community, of the game’s community as a whole and most importantly, the opinion of the Developers. They acknowledge that Warriors are in dire need of help in this area and hence this is why, (along with Necromancers,) we are due to further receive a number of changes in the upcoming balance patch.

But still… we’re all wrong, yeah? Well, no we’re not. Thankfully ArenaNet recognise that you cannot base class balance around the abilities of a few big-headed braggarts who may or may not be able play just that bit better than most. If they did think this we wouldn’t be the focus of these upcoming changes now, would we? So no, we all don’t need to just “l2p”, what we need (and what ArenaNet will hopefully, eventually deliver) is a class which is equal in capability in PvP to the other classes.

Now, tell us more about how talented and awesome you are… yawn, yawn.

@lowfreq -

You’ll never hear a Thief admit that their class actually has some strong abilities. The only reason they’re part of the unholy-trinity (along with Mesmers and Guardians) is that they’re all really, really skilled players or that everyone else just needs to L2P.

Keep this in mind before posting in the future, thanks.

XII.9401:

Enmity.3428:

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

You have some of the best condition removal in the game..

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

kitten ..wish I had that weak kitten ability!

Keep it coming. Your only bumping this thread up and attracting more attention with the ‘valid’ replies.

Mate, I’m a Warrior and I’m taking the mickey out of Thieves.

Read it again.

Arganthium.5638:

Enmity.3428:

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Please, teach me how to play as good as you do, o Holy One.

Haha! I don’t think Thieves need lessons from Warriors on how to kill!

Look, that post I made is just jealousy – I wish I could spam 2 attacks on my Warrior and win so easily.

Sadly, I’m forced to actually use all my skills and abilities if I want to do well.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Zodian.6597:

(no one even thought of playing lb till tsts ran it with 5 warriors and started winning lol).

I agree with much of the rest of your post but this ^ is complete pish.

XII.9401:

Um..no..those changes only looked good on paper for people who don’t play the class.

Just reading the patch notes I could easily see the flaws in those changes when they first came out. Check out the threads that popped on the day of changes.

Whomever is doing the balance job needs to be changed.

That’s sort of the point I was making, (maybe not clearly enough though) – the other classes looked at the patch notes for the Warrior and noted a lot of buffs on there and that was it for them – Warriors gettin’ buffed loads was all they saw. The theory-crafting nonsense began (and I don’t mean just from other classes, from Warriors too,) with talk of things like unblockable, boon-hatin’ Killshots, Dogged March coupled with certain Runes, etc. and on-paper some of them did look like they could be potentially better than what we had. Unfortunately, when it came to actual play, these changes were shown-up as being wholly inadequate.

To be fair, like you and no doubt many others, I too was sceptical about what (if any) changes these “buffs” would bring but I’m always open to trying things to see if they work out, and so was willing to give them a chance. The proof of the pudding, as they say… It became apparent after playing around with these changes for a few hours that yes, they were pretty much just trash.

ArenaNet said they wanted to let the meta settle to see how it worked out… and I remember thinking, “why bother?” Very quickly it became crystal clear that these changes had done nothing for the Warrior and yet here we are, weeks later and still in the same sorry state. It’s for this reason that I disagree with ArenaNet’s handling of balancing in terms of their softly-softly approach and in terms of frequency – as soon as it becomes clear that something isn’t working (or hasn’t worked as well as had been intended,) just change it. Don’t leave it to fester for a couple of months. Simple things like tweaking a few values every fortnight surely can’t be too big a task?

Forestgreen.7981:

Incoming -10s on endure. 80s instead of 90s, Warriors are now fixed you are welcome!

Don’t joke, you’re probably right.

The new condition will be called Rust and it will affect all heavy armor-wearers… (except Guardians.) It breaks armor and cannot be cleansed by any form of condition removal – you have to put on another set of armor or leave the match to repair.

Warriors will get an additional 60 bag slots in their inventory. You’re welcome!

You know beyond any doubt that the Warrior class is in a bad, bad way when the Game Designers themselves are making jokes about the class. Not just that, but making jokes about the build [5-Signet build] that they buffed in the last patch! “We buffed you guys and you’re still crap, haha!”

I mean, never mind the arrogant über-Warriors insisting that the class is fine and everyone else is just dog-s**t compared to them. “Just l2p, bro.” Never mind the trolls from other classes coming into our forum and purposefully lying and over-exaggerating about the class or creating a mythical beast of a Warrior that only exists on paper.

Never mind them. The Developers cracking jokes about the class tells you all you need to know. I wonder if in the weeks following this next balance patch if the Developers will still be laughing at us? My guess is yes, they will be, simply because I think they’re too afraid of making Warriors equal in strength and capability to their precious Thieves, Mesmers and Guardians. Time will tell.

unknowable.8470:

Warriors are a far more powerful class than is being given credit here and VERY flexible and rewarding to skilled players.
Absolute trash in the hands of the un-imaginative… But still a great and powerful class.

I think the biggest issues overall would be people REFUSING to play skilled play because it isn’t warrior enough.

Sure bunker guardians will beat you if you don’t play the kiting game, but at the same time.. A bunker guardian is ONLY useful for holding a position and not exploiting it’s weakness because “it doesn’t feel right” is stupid.

lol, wut?

What are you talking about? Warriors are only garbage because players refuse to play the class well? Is that what you’re saying? Jeez-oh. Yeah, often in fights I find myself thinking, “I could kill this Guardian/Thief/Mesmer/BM Ranger if I wanted to but I won’t… because it doesn’t feel right”, “it isn’t warrior enough.” (Whatever that means…?)

Do you not see how utterly stupid that sounds?

In case you’ve not noticed, these “un-imaginative” players you speak of make up the overwhelming majority of people who play Warrior. So no, it’s not a “great and powerful class” if only the minority of highly-skilled players can be successful with it.

Here’s something – seeing as you think imagination is the key – imagine a class that wasn’t just reserved for the elite to play, where even casual players (you know, the bulk of the people playing this game) could pick it up and play it quite successfully… like you can with practically every other class in the game. Crazy idea, eh?

I try hard not to be cynical but… more stun-breakers, better condition management and rewards for Adrenaline use all sound good and they’re things we’ve been asking for, but unless ArenaNet are bold enough to actually make these changes strong enough, then nothing will change… just like the in the aftermath of the last balance patch.

Dogged March, Destruction of the Empowered, Signet buffs, the changes to Frenzy, unblockable attacks et al all looked good on paper, but had little to no impact in actual game-play. Warriors were bottom-tier before these changes and the were still bottom-tier after these changes.

ArenaNet have said that they don’t want to do “whack-a-mole” balancing – preferring instead a more touchy-feely-softly-softly-gently-now approach, but to me that’s like trying to perform tree-surgery with a butter-knife. They need to take a chainsaw to it.

Since launch, Warriors have been thoroughly sub-par in PvP and I often ask myself, what are ArenaNet so afraid of? That their precious unholy-trinity classes will get smashed to pieces and actually have to fight for their lives and use some skill instead of face-rolling their keyboards for the win? As for the proposed strengthening of Weakness, (okay this one’s for the Necromancers and they deserve it,) but still, global buffs mean buffs for already powerful classes… like the Thief. You’ve got to laugh.

As always, Warrior players will have to wait it out and hope for the best.

Playing as an Asura in PvP is like playing as Oddjob in multiplayer Goldeneye.

Cheap.

…although I did laugh last night playing sPvP when I saw a tiny Asura Engineer called “Net Turret”.

Quite an effective ruse, haha!

The 30 to 40 gold wasn’t just from World Completion rewards – my apologies, I should have made it clear that was in total – from rewards, looted coin, Hearts, selling the crafting materials, etc. I’ve done World Completion twice now and both times earned roughly this amount. I never ran past an event, mob or node without doing it, killing it or mining it.

In general, I think World Completion should be your main focus, (your “umbrella” goal,) but there’s nothing stopping you from mixing it up with WvWvW, Fractal runs and, as Lyonell has also said, CoF runs, Dragon events, et al. There’s plenty to do, just don’t lose focus on your overall goal and get “stuck” doing the same thing as it’s easy to get worn-out with the game that way. In my opinion.

Without a doubt, go for World Completion. That should be your first step along the road to getting Twilight – You need 100% completion for the Gift of Exploration. The Karma and money you make through completion, (about 30-40 gold?) is good. As you run around, gather every node you pass. Keep the T6 materials and sell the rest. You’ll accumulate Experience, Karma and Skill Points. All are necessary. (Do your Daily and Monthly as you go for the Mystic Coins.)

Thankfully, it’s not boring like farming CoF all the time, you’ll see the whole of Tyria and completing each map gives you a sense of achievement and of progress. Mix it up by popping into WvWvW for the Badges of Honor and to get the World Completion points in there. ( It is a pain trying to get all the POI’s and Vistas in WvWvW, so do it as you progress and hopefully, come the end, you’ll only have a few left to get for 100%.)

Lastly, be methodical! Start at the low-level maps and don’t leave it until you complete it, (unless you have to detour to complete your Daily.) Complete, move to next map, complete, move to next map, etc. This is how I did it and I loved every minute!

BurrTheKing.8571:

Defektive.7283:

I’m going to be kicking my streams into high gear soon. Focusing 75% of it on tournament builds, tournament play, the Warriors place in a tournament as well as fielding questions from the chat regarding Warriors.

I don’t think a class is solely good based on how many foes they can down in an allotted time, but rather what they bring to the team overall.

What we bring to the table is kind of our problem though isn’t it? Many of the roles in TPvP can often be better filled by another class. You could have your team build around having you but I’m not sure that’s the best option. Even when I do well in PvP I feel like I had the skill advantage, not that I was on equal ground.

Yeah, I think that’s an important point that’s often ignored. The Warrior class requires a very high level of individual skill to play well and to be effective, and if you’re a average or lower-skilled player you’ll struggle quite badly. The Warrior is unforgiving in this respect.

In contrast, other classes are far more forgiving, where even relatively poor players can achieve a good degree of success by virtue of their class being better designed. It comes down to the strength of options available to each class – when you have a class with multiple, strong options, then player skill is less important.

Very briefly, I think you’ve focussed a bit too much on Adrenaline generation. With axes in particular, you’ll fill your Adrenaline bar quickly and easily. With a high crit rate, even just between the axe auto-attack, Whirling Axes with the Sharpened Axes skill you’ll have plenty. So I would swap some of those Adrenaline traits for more useful ones. Here are a few of suggestions you could try:

Take Signet Mastery instead of Thrill of the Kill – instead of gaining a little more Adrenaline when you make a kill, you have the insta-fill Signet of Fury, on demand, on a reduced cooldown. (I think Signet Mastery is essential for the Signet of Rage as well.)

Drop Embrace the Pain and take Burst Mastery – take those 10 points out of Defence and put them into Discipline. If you’re looking to spam Eviscerate then this is an obvious choice.

Lastly, I’d take 10 points out of Arms and put it into Strength for Axe Mastery – 10% more critical damage for the axes. (The axe auto-attack is excellent. Chop-chop-chop-chop-chop-chop-chop!)

But really, the more you play the class the more you’ll naturally evolve a play-style that works for you, tweaking and trying out different skills and traits as you go along.

I hope my suggestions are helpful to you. Don’t be afraid of altering your build as you go – there isn’t really a wrong way and if something’s not working for you, just change it!

McFribble.2349:

Daecollo.9578:

It gives 3 seconds of Fury/5 Might/Swiftness every 3 seconds for 30 seconds.

This way its harder to steal.

Or you could simply NOT pop it against a S/D Thief. There is always that.

There’s always that when you’re playing by gentlemen’s rules, one-on-one. In reality, more-often-than-not, the Thief comes out of nowhere when you’re fighting someone else and steals your boons. What then?

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors are an absolute joke in PvP. Anyone who says otherwise really needs to pull there head from there rears. Unfortunately many people have over-inflated egos and think that smashing Zergs with a hammer and doing a Zerker CoF run is skill.

I just don’t get why some fellow Warriors wouldn’t want to see the class strengthened?

In my opinion it’s either stupidity or narcissism.

Daecollo.9578:

I just thought it was a kitteneesy that you can spec for getting 50 seconds of Fury/Swiftness/5 Might then have it all immediately taken away. At least Warriors who only have a few precious boons on an elite spell no doubt should have a little protection from this. They almost completely rely on it, and its not really changing its power to anything but boon stealing.

It doesn’t make them any stronger in PvE.

Couldn’t agree more.

Caedmon.6798:

Sorry but..all you people saying you get wiped 1v1..Thats You,not the class.I know your ego will probably be to big to accept this fact..But i know people,and myself included that have absolutely no problems soloing most classes.It’s just Mesmers/thiefs stay at #1 being the most troublesome,because of their endless ways to escape.You need to figure out how to control your enemy,not let them controlling you,and making use of utilities and traits for Survival,not toughness/vitality…

Caedmon.6798:

Learn to read Please,before trying to make yourself look like a fool.I never said there isn’t anything wrong with warrior,but people saying they cant do a 1vs1 Are wrong or indeed need to learn 2 play.Thats why its so hard even trying to start a discussion with people like you,no actual responses,just a bunch of bull,hence im not even bothering most of the time.

You’re right, you didn’t say there isn’t anything wrong with the Warrior – you just said that “all” the people who play Warrior and can’t fight 1vs1 are wrong. How conceited of you. (Incidentally, the problem is not that Warriors can’t fight 1vs1, it’s that more-often-than-not, the Warrior will lose due to class inadequacies.)

There’s nothing wrong with asking for a class (which most of us find to be sub-par) to be brought up to standard and everything wrong with belittling players with abusive “l2p” nonsense.

As for you “not even bothering most of the time” to start a discussion with people like me, please try harder. Not even bothering at all would be good as that way we won’t have to suffer your sort bragging about how good you are and how the rest of us need to learn to play. This type of response is even more worthless than “a bunch of bull.” (Oh, and I’ll learn to read when you learn proper grammar, okay?)

It’s amusing that you mentioned egos; I think you’ll find that the players coming on here, discussing the problems they’re having with their class and asking for help are not the ones with an ego problem. No, it’s the, “I got mad skillz, learn to play nubs” players like you who cannot restrain their own ego or their contempt for more casual, less-skilled players who, (not for lack of trying,) are struggling. Who’s more likely to be correct, a few “leet” players like you insisting the class is fine, or the majority of players recognising that there is a problem with the class? The answer’s blindingly obvious I’d have though.

Thankfully, along with the Warrior community in general, ArenaNet recognises that the Warrior class is undeniably the poorest in the PvP environment and that the majority who aren’t having “absolutely no problems soloing most classes” are in need of help. As such, they have committed to fixing the class. Contrary to what you think, I believe that actually changing key aspects of how the class works is more helpful (and more appropriate) than arrogantly telling players that they’re wrong and they need to learn to play. It would seem that ArenaNet agree with me more than with you.

Caedmon.6798:

Sorry but..all you people saying you get wiped 1v1..Thats You,not the class.I know your ego will probably be to big to accept this fact..But i know people,and myself included that have absolutely no problems soloing most classes.It’s just Mesmers/thiefs stay at #1 being the most troublesome,because of their endless ways to escape.You need to figure out how to control your enemy,not let them controlling you,and making use of utilities and traits for Survival,not toughness/vitality…

Relax everyone, the ÜberEliteWarrior here says it’s just a l2p issue. We’re all wrong, the Developers are wrong too. The Warrior class is fine.