Guild Wars 2

Well it’s official. Our glorious purple swirls of confusion will be broken. Destroyed. Rendered essentially useless. The forces that be caved to the lamentations of warriors and thieves everywhere. A 50% damage reduction will render Mesmer glam builds extinct, along with the confusion engineer. Many brave forum warriors died to prevent this needless nerf. But we failed. Now nothing stands between the massive, mindless hordes of button mashing mega-zergs. Don’t come crying to us when you can’t break up that mob camping your spawn. Don’t come crying to us when your keep is wiped in seconds. Those days are over! Most condition Mesmers, myself included, will retrait power shatter builds. All that carrion / rabid gear we grinded is useless. But we still have one last weekend to give confusion the noble funeral it deserves.

I call on all confusion Mesmers! Rise up! Storm WvW this weekend in one last huzzah of glorious pink spirals!!! They’ve called us OP, they’ve QQ’d us into extinction! Let them feel our wrath one last time!!

And post your new builds below or what class you are going to re-roll as. Post how you think this will effect WvW long term. Discuss.

Awful. What a dark day for Mesmers. The QQ’s have won.

ARM.3912:

About time that ability was fixed.

Well you got your way ARM. It’s a day of victory for D /D Elementalists who will remain the top of food chain in WvW. The only upside is that maybe you’ll stop posting on our forum. Ahh who am I kidding….

Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.

Gah! Noo! I can’t watch the link. Can you be more specific about the changes? Is it a dam nerf? What are they doing to our precioussss?

Just wanna welcome DR to T7! NSP and HoD are thrilled to have you on board. And god help T6 when SF moves up. Watch out for those spawn camping skritt heads.

If anything I want a mesmer downed ability entitled “Get it Over With” that allows you to commit suicide before your foes get to cap you and denies them a loot bag. That would be far better than the current situation.

What in the name of the Pale Tree are you smoking? We have the WORST downed state in the entire game! This is how I know people come on the mes forum just to troll. First off, our downed abilities are awful in WvW. Once you go down, your only hope is to hit number 2 (Deception) fast because the cast time on phantom rogue is so long that you’ll be dead before you get it off. Second, “Deception” should be retitled “Prolong the Humiliation”. It often will teleport you closer to the enemy line, and the stealth is so brief that you appear while folks are still dunking your icorpse. So they look around and go, “Oh… there he is. Let’s do it again.” If anything it allows you to experience your humiliating death twice. Not to mention the fact that deception stealth breaks on damage and chances are you’re already taking DOT dam, so it breaks immediately leaving you flailing like a fool. Engineer’s downed state was FAR superior. That bomb saved me many times.

Raptured.9307:

Being one of my favorite classes to roll in tpvp, i would say it is overpowered in wvw and spvp, less so for pve (where they’re simply useful).

Hogwash. Pure, unfiltered hogwash. Play a mesmer as your main (not just rolling one on sPvP) and you’ll eat those words like a word pasta salad. Mesmers are more jack of all trades, masters of none. Some people think we’re O.P. because mesmers have a more versatile, alterable trait line than any other class. What I mean by that is, with other classes your trait line is mostly an augmentation to a similar play style. With mesmers, if you alter your traits, your whole play style and approach changes. The effect of this is that players are often surprised or unprepared for what type of mesmer we are. Most players don’t really know how we work or what we do, get befuddled by our odd abilities, and die because of it. Much of our power comes from our unpredictability. Players that get the mesmer and identify which trait build we are running are very hard to beat. We’re actually easy to counter once you identify what we’re throwing at you. Mesmers have a lot of weaknesses. Mesmers are like the “intelligence test” class of the game. If you’re smart, we pose no problem.

I am curious tho if you send yer clones to shatter at a target and while they are running to them, they are killed by AOE or something, does the “on kill trait” still proc?

Thanks for the info!

Play nice, skritt-heads. I know it’s called “Guild Wars” but all this little infighting is boring to read.

And girl gamers rock. Their numbers increase every year and on average they have more raw talent, skill, and intelligence then their male counterparts.

Naffy.1493:

So if SF is going up, who is coming down? Congrats on the move up, though we will miss you. Your turtly portal bombs were an excellent source of easy bags……………as were all your players

Huzzah! So glad SF is moving up. Congrats to them, but mostly congrats to T7 who can hopefully get some more pop balenced matches going on. And I hope to see HoD make a come back now that the shambling zombie masses—-cough, cough I mean SF are on their merry way.

Quick question. Trying out a new build, and I noticed that some traits say in the description that they take effect when clones are shattered, and others when the clones are “killed”. My question is, when we shatter our clones, does that count as them being killed for the purposes of the trait? Or does the trait effect only proc when they are killed by foes? As in “Clones apply a random condition to foes when they are killed”. Thanks!

I’m torn on this. On one hand, there really, really needs to be better things to spend the badges on. No self-respecting level 80 would buy gear with it when the designs pale in comparison to the crafted/karma/dungeon/named options. And no level 70 would blow all their badges on gear they’ll replace in 10 levels. It’s frustrating that there’s really nothing to spend them on (other than siege and gift of battle). I WISH there was some fantastic PvP gear you could get with enough badges. Some interesting weapons or some awesome back piece or something. Or some buffs for your team perhaps. Or some ascended gear.

On the other hand, WvW could really suffer if the badges were coveted too. I fear players would stop holding points, running supply, etc and just grind badges for shinnies. I fear things would devolve into one big badge farm with PvE players flooding the battlegrounds looking to endlessly camp spawn or something. Or guilds from different servers striking deals and holding massive “you kill me, then I kill you for badges” fight clubs. What’s nice about WvW now is most people playing it are there because they love the game and they want to win.

Bah… I love the WvW vistas and points and such. It’s designed to add relevance to capturing keeps and the like. Us WvW types that you dismiss, guess what, we’re fighting for YOU PVE’ers to get your map completion (among other things)! Plus, we could really use you in the battle. For every five players that logs into EB just to grab vistas, I guarantee one is drawn into WvW and remains involved. I was forced into PvE in order to get my dungeon set, and guess what? I had fun doing PvE. A good MMO will cross-pollinate the content so players get a taste of everything.

It holds target if the attack started before you went invisible.

Toble.2968:

So, I was going to forum troll this morning,

But apparently one of the suspected bombers goes to my college and lived in a dorm near my apartment and we were all evacuated and work was cancelled.

Scary. my phone has been blowing up all day over this.

Been following it on the news. Terrifying stuff. Stay safe Toble. NYC is with you Boston!

Sure would make jumping puzzle easier.

Congrats on starting a mesmer! I love this class and you will too. My biggest suggestion is to stick with it through the leveling. There’s a dip in viability and dps around 25-35 that causes most players stop leveling. Don’t. Mesmers rely on their traits more than any other class. Most of our power comes from our traits. Hang in there till 40, then it gets good. I’d use GS/Staff for leveling. Then, give up GS when you hit 80. The first build I had a ton of fun with in WvW was Chaos Maestro. It seems more like a support class on paper, and it is, but it has great survivability and utility.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Chaos-Maestro-Boon-Support-Tank/first#post1641809

There are a ton of viable builds tho, and you’ll have a blast playing around with all of them. Good luck!

At first I wanted SF to leave T7, but now I’m not so sure. It’s rather fun coming up with innovate ways to counter their superior numbers. Every assault is like Night of the Living Dead. NSP is getting really kitten good at tactics. I’m finally seeing commanders use the map / landscape extremely strategically to push back the hordes of SF. Plus SF loves glass canon builds and they go down super easy. Sometimes I feel like a god out there, as a noble few of us slaughter hundreds, wave after wave. Not to say SF doesn’t have skill, they do. And they never let up. If they attack a point you can bet they’ll keep coming back for hours. SF has real innovative uses of siege and they are tenacious to say the least. There’s no denying tho that NSP is getting stronger each week. We bring the ruckus.

Kazhiel.8194:

Entropy, I agree with your assessment for the most part but the original poster just wants to tag mobs during pve events, he doesn’t need to consider survivability or any of that, the gs will do what he wants xD

Chaos storm would be perfect for tagging mobs. And iWarden can hit multiple targets. But I see your point. If all he wants to do is tag mobs, then sure. But down the line he may want to take a more pivotal role on the field.

I prefer iwarden (sceptor/focus with staff). GS lacks real utility and is very single-minded. It’s a little better then it used to be due to the recent patch that allows the beam for GS to hit multiple targets, but I much prefer Staff. But I mostly play WvW, not PvE. Every ability with staff is incredibly useful and vital. Staff 2 is an incredable immobilize-breaker combined with a backwards blink combined with a clone creator. Staff phantom is very strong, and excells in PVE with multiple up (not as effective in WvW) and choas storm is so amazingly useful. Buff allies or condition foes or both plus an ethereal field. And staff 1 is great for booning up a group. Staff is generous, helping those around you. GS is selfish. Plus iWarden is amazing if traited for reduced cool down and reflection. Yes, he doesn’t move much, but if you trait into inspiration he gives regeneration to nearby allies, has retaliation, reflection, protection from projectiles and he lasts longer then iZerker. Drop iWarden in the right spot on the battlefield and it’s very effective. iZerker does his whirl and then ceases to be useful until his next attack which often doesn’t come because some ranger picks him off. Plus, temporal curtain is a cripple/speed boost, pull/push, and has moderate reflection (if traited) in the right placement. GS can certainly work, but I prefer the verisitily and generosity of staff. Plus less Mesmers run staff/scepter/focus and it’s always advantageous to attack foes that are unfamiliar with your abilities and their effects. Don’t get me wrong, some players are very good with GS and have worked into certain builds effectively. It’s just not my cup of tea.

My sylvari mesmer just yelled “I’m IN!!!” when I cast temporal curtain. Awesome.

Ping.5739:

NSP might start moving up in ladder if selfish guilds (like that stupid white wolf) can stop claiming keeps or put all their wvw buff on.

Well I can’t say I don’t enjoy fighting with keep defender who has nothing on them, so easy to kill =]

Don’t mess with the white wolf, buddy.

Thanks for the advice. How do I file a support ticket?

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Great job NSP at keeping us (SF) from your EB keep last night, even after we had knocked down three walls and killed your keep lord.

That was seriously one of the most epic gaming experiences of my life. Thank you to SF! We were all very impressed by your persistence and fortitude. Man… a 3 hour nonstop assault on our keep, walls down all over the place, and by my count our keep lord was killed 5 times. Getting that first yak through the Keep door felt like a major triumph. Shout out to all my NSP brothers and sisters who held the line! Also… good job to SF on protecting those trebs for as long as you did. I think we did 4 strike force runs up that hill. Last night we brought things to a whole new level.

So today, after the server maintenance yesterday, I had a terrifying encounter with the normally reliable Black Lion trading co. I bought an item for 4 gold. The purchase took a long time…. finally it said “Error, the item you requested is not available at this time.” To my horror, the gold it cost was taken from my account, but the item was nowhere to be seen. I waited for a few minutes in terror. Finally the item appeared in the delivery window, but only after I found it on recent transaction history and clicked on it. Then, thinking the server was just slow, I sold a 20 silver item. This time it seemed to go well, but I never got the 20 silver. The AH took the item, but never paid up. I never got that 20 silver period. Gone. Anyone else having these issues? First time for me in a year of play.

CrassBippy.4619:

Acelerion.6820:

Berzerker/Knight mesmer with 300 condi due to spec and condition damage stacks.

1744 a tick followed with some glass cannon dps.

Its not just pure condition mesmers that use confusion to their advantage.

someone being honest, lets all +1 this

people can bring up any argument they want, try to refute it with any argument they want. If you have fought alot of really good mesmers, you know just how lop sided it can be. The only people who can defend it are people running those specs that dont want it to get brought down. They just discredit the people who bring up ideas like this as “bad” or that we have no idea what we are talking about.

The problem is that ANET didnt balanced WVW around the same levels as Spvp, because honestly, why shouldnt they? wvw DOES NOT NEED 80%+ crit damage, nor does it need all these consumables for super long cond durations. Its a joke and its gotten way out of hand with all this ascended gear constantly just adding even more damage

So now you want to nerf all crit damage too for every class? Out of curiosity, oh crusader against confusion, what class do you main? I’m willing to bet thief. Thieves hate Mesmers because we are their natural predator. Thieves like to go unchecked and kill at will. Confusion messes up their light speed combos. Thus the resentment. Every class needs a counter of some kind for balance. As to the above poster, again, the 1700 number is probably a single target, unobstructed stack. What that means is that the Mesmer dumped every ability they have on the target. This is impossible to do large scale against a Zerg. Believe me, I’ve tried. I did some more tests today just to test your theories out. The data just doesn’t support your claim. You can only get 2-3 stacks against large groups. More like 300-400 a tick. Single target dump of all abilities can yield a higher number but it requires full three clone shatter. Most clones never make it past the line of AOE and death in front of a big group because they have such low health. So there goes all their confusion. Which leaves glams. Each glam delivers 1-2 stacks ( on blind) 2 more if the targets run out of the AOE and you’ve traited for that. That’s it. Good luck getting that stack up. Scepter range won’t cut into a large group. Plus, even at full dump of all abilities, yer basically helpless after the target cleanses because of all the cool downs. Sorry bud, that fish is three days old. I ain’t buyin’ it.

Now let’s say for argument sake, that you’re 1v1 and you manage to stack enough single target confusion dump with every ability you have on your foe. And let’s say it does hit 1744 (I’ve never got that high but I’ll trust the random poster above). And let’s say that foe hits… say 4 abilities during the duration. That’s 6,976 on a SINGLE target. On my Engineer I can toss grenade barrage and hit 5 targets with static discharge for a total of 9k instantly. Don’t get me started on the burst potential of Elementalists. How is this confusion number unfair and nerfable? especially if it’s impossible to get that kind of damage against a larger group? Riddle me that?

NevirSayDie.6235:

dank.3680:

Don’t know how many times people can point out that confusion was never nerfed in Spvp, but buffed in PVE – And why people keep comparing them is beyond me anyways Spvp and WvW are two totally different animals..

I’ll be right there with you pointing out that glass cannon builds have about 130% crit damage in WvW and about 60% crit damage in PvP. Honestly, there are a few things that should probably change about confusion though, like proccing off of unavoidable/useless dodge roll traits and % hp traits.

I’ll concede the dodge roll trait thing. I wouldn’t gripe if they did that. I want my targets to be punished for taking action and executing skills, and a dodge feels like it’s not really a skill even if something procs when you do it. Leave the damage alone and I can live with the dodge thing.

As was stated earlier in the thread, in sPVP there are many different skills and abilities that have their damage reduced and their effectiveness deminished, such as retaliation. It’s unfair to single out confusion. sPvP was balanced to make fights last longer in enclosed spaces with less players. It can’t, nor should it be a model for WvW. Yer clinging to the sPvP 50% thing like a drowning man hugging a wood plank. Give it up bud. As to the above poster who said “if it’s the weakest condition in the game then why spec for it?” That’s a good question, worthy of answering. To my mind it’s not the worst dam condition. Bleeding is the worst, then Confusion, then Poison, then Burning as the best. So second worst. The reason to spec for it is because it’s distracting to your targets. No one seriously does it for damage. We do it to add another bewildering aspect to our assault. We distract and befuddle and decoy and weave deception as Mesmers. In addition to our clones ( target distractions ) our invisibility, and our phantoms, confusion is good for a few seconds of “What the hell? I’m hurting myself?” This moment of distraction will often cause foes to back off and stop attacking you or your group for a few seconds. It helps with retreat, it affords you tactical maneuverability, and it interrupts the blur of endless combos your foes are just about to steam roll you with. And it’s worth keeping the damage at a fairly decent level with traits so your foes notice it and don’t ignore it. But I don’t kill with confusion. I kill with phantoms.

If they do reduce overall confusion damage (after which I’ll get very drunk and sob myself to sleep), perhaps they can off-set the damage reduction by allowing confusion damage to hurt the target and everyone AROUND the target, as if they were spinning their weapons wildly, hitting their comrades. That could work, although it would make confusion less effective for 1v1.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Bleed- Typical Duration: 10-20 seconds. Dmg per stack: ~150. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 10-15, conditions for taking damage: none, typical cooldown of skills that apply: 0. Mass application: easy

Burn- Typical Duration: 1-2 minutes. Dmg per tick: ~2000, Conditions for taking damage: None. Cool down for skills that apply: None, constant uptime possible. Mass application: easy

Confusion- Typical duration: 5-8 seconds (10 second cap). Dmg per stack: ~300. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 5-8. Conditions for taking damage: Only take dmg on activated skills. Typical Cooldown of skills that apply: 30-60 seconds. Constant uptime NOT possible. Mass application, 1 specific build of 1 class: easy. Not possible otherwise.

Confusion is one of the weakest conditions in the game. Stupidity is what makes it useful.

Dmg was nerfed in sPvP because in 1v1 situations it is possible for mesmers to get 10-15 stacks on a single target which was OP for point holding since the enemy couldn’t do anything until help arrived and by then it was too late for them. With the abundance of condition removal and the mass zergs this is a non-issue in WvW.

Thank you for this well thought out and researched post. When I get hit with confusion I don’t panic in the slightest. Sometimes I don’t even cleanse. When I get hit with burning I get scared. I know I gotta cleanse burning or it has a high probability of killing me. Especially since I can’t mitigate it by not attacking. No matter what I do, burning will hurt me badly.

Yes! Thanks to the devs for addressing this. Game mechanics that reward conscientious players, encourage supply management, and above all keep yaks alive and safe are all much appreciated. How bout a daily or weekly reward that gives you a chest and a laurel if you repair X amount of towers or protect X amount of yaks? That way it’s not about badges, because I agree it’s odd that a wall would drop a loot bag.

I came to Mesmer from Engineer primarily, but have sampled a bunch of the other classes. No, Mesmer is not OP. We’re just more unpredictable and ultimately more fun to play. People complain about mesmers because they don’t understand our abilities and are befuddled by our unique class mechanics. My Engineer can do much more burst damage and move faster, but the Eng class feels clunky and cluttered with skills you would never consider using or have a hard time finding an application for. Eng is like a bucket of bolts you’re constantly sifting through thinking, “Hmmm… I never use this skill, what if I somehow… put that… there… and uh… no, that doesn’t work. Why is this skill here? Maybe I should…” Plus, no matter how you trait as an Eng, you basically get the same general, straight-forward play style. With Mesmer, I was was amazed by how incredably useful each skill was (besides mantras). Each new skill, I was like, “Wow… that’s… really helpful there… Or that one… or… wow, that’ll come in handy.” My damage output is lower on Mesmer, and I’m slow, but I can re-trait and essentially have a completely new character and play style. Really interesting builds are possable on mesmer. And the best part of the class is that we’re truly helpful to other players. With Eng the best we can do is toss a measly elixir at someone’s feet or fire a healing circle. With Mesmer it’s like, “You want transport? You want boons? You want protection? You want regeneration? You want pink butterflies? What you needs I gots!!” I love the mesmer because it’s so versatile and fun to play. But I get ganked 1 on 2 all the time and taken out fast by thieves and warriors. That would never happen as an eng (build too tough and fast). Mesmer is not OP, just hella useful and fun.

Henrik.7560:

You twonks who think mesmers are an OP easy to play class, you are sadly mistaken. Mesmer is by FAR the hardest class to play. I have spent over 500 hours on my mesmer and STILL haven’t mastered it. Its not a thief where you can just go steal, C&D and backstab in a second for 15000 damage, then if that doesnt work spam heartseeker till they die, but it takes time. Us mesmers have to learn how to use our clones wisely, (stacking up auto attack conditions, making yourself really hard to find (Decoy, Phase Retreat, Blink) and then theres the phantasms, you have to make sure they hit at the right time, as a good way to start your enemy off before going into main burst attacks.
The only reason everyone wants us to be nerfed is because they are the thief players, and we know thief are the true OP class with their spammable burst damage and constant stealthing.

Mesmers aren’t easy to play and they aren’t OP, they are by far the hardest to play class.

Huzzah! Well said.

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Why are you even here? Youre not offering any reasonable conversation. Now youre just changing the topic and people will never win trying to discuss things with you. You are the one with the agenda here. and by the way all those shatters are AOE.

so that 12+ and 15+ stacks are on multiple targets….. but it will always be something with you. So we all know youre just trying to hide things and mis inform people so they think confusion is ok and they dont nerf your baby.

you can go now, its ok. Well still have a discussion about it

Look, you clearly have an agenda as well (look back at all your posts). I am in no way trying to hide things or misinform. Everything I’ve posted is based on my 100+ hours of gameplay. I’m here because I have played too many MMO’s that I’ve worked hard on and quite enjoyed only to watch classes that the developers have done an expert job on creating destroyed by nerf witch hunts and forum warriors.

The reality though is that we can argue until we’re blue in the face. You won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. I think confusion is fine, you think it’s OP. There’s no point in trying to change eachother’s minds.

This discussion is ultimately pointless because it’ll have no effect on what the dev’s decide to do. Anet has proven to be very measured in their balancing patches. We can point fingers all day, but in the end they’ll do what they’re gonna do. You want a nerf, I don’t. In the end they’ll probably be some slight changes, but confusion is here to stay.

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Darek.1836:

I dare any confu lovers to do a 5v5 or more of equally skilled players, but one team has a confu mesmer and the other doesn’t. It basically goes like this
1) first push
2) 6+ confu stack on all 5
3) necro and other classes stack conditions
4) guards on other team cleanse it
5) too late, you just lost 80% of your hp from the 3 seconds you couldn’t cast anything, even more dmg if you did
6) you lose lol, l2p noob confu is hard to stack

This kind of argument is often trotted out when anti-Mesmers are dis-proved by the facts. When we clearly point out that the numbers prove confusion is in no way OP, the argument made is “Well, okay, but the Mesmer is not acting alone. They have a team other classes with them doing damage too.” This makes zero sense to me. Are we expected to run solo as Mesmers? Class synergy is a part of every group. Why should be be blamed for the group’s successful or unsuccessful battle? You say the act of cleansing confusion messed up the skirmish. You imply that if you hadnt had to pay attention to and react to confusion you would have won. No matter what classes you fight, you need to react to their actions to survive. A good player can react, counter, then win. If a ranger sends his pet to me am I just going to mindlessly keep attacking the ranger and not react to the pet? Of course not! I’ll toss down focus 1 and slow or yank the pet back. During the time it takes to do that, could I have attacked the ranger? Yes. Does that mean pets are OP? No! Am I going to let an elementalist’s burning condition stay on me? No, I’ll toss null field because I play smart and look at my condition bar. I know burning is a very dangerous condition so I REACT and remove it. Welcome to the game. As I’ve said before, confusion forces you to play smart and actually be aware of the battle, not just spam your combos. People don’t like it because they don’t like thinking. Confusion, unlike burning, gives you three choices. 1. Don’t attack. 2. Cleanse 3. Keep attacking and take the damage. Honestly, between this plethora of choices I always go with 1 or 2 because it’s so easy. But sometimes I’ll just take the damage. And guess what? Confusion does such little damage compared to firestorm or grenades or 100B AND has no crit % that it hardly phases me. Plus I got 22k HP. Even at 3000k condition damage after 5 ticks (which would be a really good stack) I’m fine. This is why all this complaining about confusion bugs me, it’s not even that great!!

Nordic Natedog.4360:

Entropy.4732:

Iruwen.3164:

Max.8563:

confusion is the only counter to dodge

Confusion doesn’t trigger on dodge, only when dodge is traited to trigger an action itself.

LordByron.8369:

Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…

How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies

This is so true. Mostly I manage to tag players with 2-3 stacks of confusion using glamours. This results in about 250 points of damage a tick (about 3-4 ticks) for fully geared players and about 350 for ungeared lowbies. Sometimes you get lucky and someone will run in and out of the fields a bunch of times and the numbers will be a little higher. Regardless, that ain’t killing anyone. This myth of “15 stacks of instant confusion from glamours” is just that, a myth.

You seriously need to work on your setup and play if you are only getting them with 2-3 stacks of confusion and them doing only 250 damage per stack. I use only 2 glamour fields yet get 6-8 on a regular basis. 2 from their original cast, another 2 from them leaving the fields, plus another 2-4 when I pull them back into or even through those fields. All the while, the lowest my confusion does is 370 dmg per stack (when my consumables run out on me and I have the wrong weapon set on).

Thanks for the tips. I’m still getting my trinkets, but I do need to work on pulling back into the fields. I can get higher numbers, but I was referring to what the poster was commenting on in terms of hitting people with a few glamours (not every glam all at once in a perfect set-up). I’m still skeptical though about your ability to get 8 stacks on players from range in a zerg. That seems impossible right now.

Iruwen.3164:

Max.8563:

confusion is the only counter to dodge

Confusion doesn’t trigger on dodge, only when dodge is traited to trigger an action itself.

LordByron.8369:

Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…

How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies

This is so true. Mostly I manage to tag players with 2-3 stacks of confusion using glamours. This results in about 250 points of damage a tick (about 3-4 ticks) for fully geared players and about 350 for ungeared lowbies. Sometimes you get lucky and someone will run in and out of the fields a bunch of times and the numbers will be a little higher. Regardless, that ain’t killing anyone. This myth of “15 stacks of instant confusion from glamours” is just that, a myth.

LordByron.8369:

Ross Biddle.2367:

In Tier 1, glamour confusion is hardly used, and certainly not relied on when zergs collide.

Changing something like confusion, or glamour builds is not a straight up WvW aspect. It’s in the hands of the class balance guy.

Maybe in USA

In EU t1 glamour build is everywhere…..and is uberannoying.
And its not a recent thing…..i noticed it in T1 since a good month….way before it became a fotm….

Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…

Not much different from Killing him.

With current damage could also be a direct stun for 10 seconds….there is not much difference…

I can’t speak for EU, but what I don’t get about the people who complain about confusion is that it’s one of the most avoidable conditions in the game, mainly because if you don’t attack IT DOES NO DAMAGE. People don’t like confusion because they don’t want to have to back off a sec and stop spamming abilities. You say stepping out of the fight is the same as death. Wha? No it’s not. I’m back in the game in two seconds. And this is also assuming I don’t have a cleanse or am not running with other players who are cleansing. Which I do. Anyone who won’t stop spamming abilities, won’t look at their condition bar, won’t run in WvW with a condition removal ability, won’t move out of AOE fields, and is so squishy that confusion can actually do damage which hurts deserves to get affected by confusion.

Max.8563:

confusion is the only counter to dodge

Confusion is the only counter to mindless, thoughtless, button-mashing too. It causes the players to stop and think, and play smart. It’s very, very necessary and should not be nerfed.

Riiiiiiight. Casual… I… I wanna post here but Golanda ‘s yaks need escorts. Seriously tho… the entire nature of WvW is anything but casual. A ranked game that never ends which requires massive teamwork, coordination, planning multiple time shifts, communications between hundreds of people, gold, high skill, dedication, etc…. WvW by it’s very nature encourages hardcore play. sPvP… now that’s casual. A separate part of the game where your PvE gear doesn’t matter and there are no rewards that translate into the main game. When I win in sPVP I’m like… okay… great. That was fun, but I gotta get back to the main attraction.

We should get better rewards in WvW for all the time we put in. There should be something worth spending badges on and Karma on (better armor designs, interesting weapons, odd, unique loot. I want to see a character with an item and think, “Ahh… that’s a WvW player.”) There should be better drops in general. But I do think they made the right choice to have Dungeon Gear be the best looking gear in the game because it encourages us WvW heads to play the PvE content. I personally want way more emphasis on statistics (how many kills you got, how much supply you ran, who healed the most, who built the most siege, who ran solo the most, who flipped the most NPC content, who defended the most towers.) at the start and end of each week. Data encourages better play. I want a “Trophy Reward” for coming in 1st place, a lesser one for second place, and no prize for 3rd. I want to see banners or a giant statue placed in major cities if you rank 1 in your tier. I want the end of the week before server reset to proclaim a clear winner. I want a WvW only skill for each class. Engineers should be able to repair siege. I want to be able to SEE the WvW rank of each player. It’s not that we don’t love WvW, we do. And us wanting these things is an expression of how much we love it.

jportell.2197:

Entropy.4732:

A lot of this “inc confusion nerf” are rumors generated by folks that want to nerf our class into oblivion simply because they don’t like Mesmers. No Anet dev has mentioned anything about confusion being nerfed. They have mentioned a possible separation of WvW and PvE in terms of stats and dam, but nothing focused at Confusion. Hopefully the nerf won’t happen.

This was why I started the thread because I knew it was a possibility especially since they stated they are going to do some WvW/PvE splits… I was just thinking of things that were split between sPvP and PvE and confusion came to mind… If it is brought to the level of sPvP I was just wondering if people think that it will destroy the glamour zerg buster builds.

I think it will. A 50% damage cut to confusion will kill it for me hands down. I run full carrion armor and I’ve worked very hard and sacrificed a lot to get my condition dam up to an acceptable level. In no way does it seem OP to me. It’s just right. If they drop the dam by half, it just won’t be worth it any more to have condition dam boosts on your gear. Primarily because Confusion is really the only condition we can do (other than a few random chaos storms one). I expect me and many other glam mesmers will drop glamours entirely and repec to either Shatter Cat or Chaos Maestro. I’ll also have to get all new gear that will up my perception, power, and toughness. It’ll be a sad affair since I love the glam play style. But yes, at 50% dam reduction I’m out. And most will be too I expect.

I feel your pain. It does seem like other classes want all our core mechanics gone from the game. They hate portals, they hate shatters, they hate phantoms, they hate confusion, they hate everything we do. The reason for this is that Mesmers are hard to predict. We’re not OP, just bewildering to other players. More then any other class, how we trait completely alters our gameplay. A Shatter Cat verses Chaos Maestro verses Confusion build are all so different. You really don’t know what you’re getting with a Mesmer until mid-fight. Are we burst dam? Are we condition? Are we tanking? What was that weird thing we just did where we disappeared, then turned you into a moa? Other classes hate to be startled. They hate learning other classes skills and would just prefer to make us so weak, we’re ineffectual. I for one love this class and hope that Anet supports and protects the integrity of our odd, beautiful pink butterflies.

A lot of this “inc confusion nerf” are rumors generated by folks that want to nerf our class into oblivion simply because they don’t like Mesmers. No Anet dev has mentioned anything about confusion being nerfed. They have mentioned a possible separation of WvW and PvE in terms of stats and dam, but nothing focused at Confusion. Hopefully the nerf won’t happen.

I think it looks cool.

Thanks all! I’ve been running the scepter with your guidance in mind and honestly I love it. I actually prefer it to sword. Yes, it’s awkward at times, but the extra clones, the blind ability, and skill 3 are great for my build. Often with sword, I’m just not close enough to use 1 or 2. iLeap is cool if you pull it off, but I find I’m mostly hitting sword 2 as a panic button or to kill downed players. Scepter feels more useful in WvW for now.

Thanks for the guidance, all! Much appreciated.