Guild Wars 2

Jski.6180:

So this is a real take over a ku as it where that Anet is doing that is going to effect every one in gw2 from here on out and make GW2 into that stander treadmill mmorpg.

Do you have any proof that this game is going to have a gear treadmill or are you just stating your (incorrect) opinion again?

It appears that you have a lot of opinions, but no facts or proof to back them up. Please get some proof or evidence, and then a discussion can be had. With what you post, there really isn’t room for a discussion.

maxwelgm.4315:

From a design standpoint, raiding should at least match the overall design philosophy of the rest of the game. And clearly, that philosophy is one of making it as accessible as possible.

Why should it? It was billed as Challenging Group Content, with Fractals as the stepping stones, so why should the accessibility increased any more than it already is?

maxwelgm.4315:

Do not think raids will never have to be reviewed and its structure modified to fit population declines (it’s already suffering from population decline: you can log into the game any time of the day for a quick daily fractals but for raids you better be online at peak time or get ready for a long sitting), they ought to do it now for it just increases the amount of work that will have to be done if they take longer to do so.

Do you have any proof of declining raid population, or are you just stating your opinion based on anecdotal evidence?

I do not believe that raids were developed with the mindset of log in, join a pug group, kill a boss. Yes, this works for experienced players, but not the general population. Which is fine for niche content.

Also consider this, in the lead up to HoT, we were told that there would be Challenging Group Content added to the game. Raids is the Challenging Group Content in this game. Fractals are the variable challenge level content.

Once you have reached T4 fractals and clear those without issue, you are that much closer to raiding in this game. It becomes a clear progression, Fractals from level 1 all the way to level 100. Once you have mastered Fractals, and you want more challenge, you turn to raids.

Sombrero.9204:

You can play extremly well in GW2 but if you don’t have a meta build or at least near meta you will end up being drastically worth than a very very very bad player with the perfect meta build.

This just isn’t true.

When looking at it at equal skill level, a meta build can outperform non-meta builds in the role that they are built for, but even with equal skill level, if you know your build better than the other person (even if non-meta) you can beat them.

Cyninja.2954:

Rednik.3809:

Cyninja.2954:

Why? Did their raid developement stop any non raid content coming out? Did we miss a Living World Episode I was not aware of? Has the developement of expansion 2 been halted?

Dungeons are dead content and will never get more developement until this stance is changed. This has nothing to do with raids so stop shifting the blame.

Fractals have received multiple updates. It’s harder to design extra content for an already existing instance (and if you payed attention you’d know that all fractals are essentially on the same map. A poor design decision I think but one that is hard to reverse) instead of creating a new one (as is the case for raids).

Honestly, I don’t know their internal kitchen, their development priorities, how many devs really work on different content parts and so on. I just see, as I have said earlier, 2 fractals, 0 dungeons and 4 raid wings in HoT. So, if you are playing PvE and want to do something more that grind gold in zerg, you essentially will face lack of the new repeatable content everywhere, except raids. So, if raids are going to be “side content”, then why they are getting so much attention? And if they are getting so much attention, why someone trying to call them “side content”?

Let’s recheck those stats:

- 2 fractals and fractal redesigns please. Those are not magically ingame. Essentially we are looking at multiple reworks of fractals and as I had mentioned, adding fractal content will be way more time consuming than creating a raid wing with some fancy small maps and essentially 3-4 boss fights. Raid maps are empty.

- 4 new maps with 1 more likely coming on tuesday

- 0 dungeons because content that does not get worked on does not appear ingame. Moot point as mentioned since they are not developing for dungeon content any more. This has nothing to do with raids so stop bringing it up as an argument. It’s not.

- 4 Living World episodes with a 5th coming on tuesday

- rebalance of classes every quarter year

- that’s not counting spvp or wvw changes and developement (which are minor compared to total pve developement currently)

I just don’t see how raids are this big of a factor. Raids are the most visible yes, that’s the idea. They are by far not the most time consuming development wise.

Let’s not also forget, that after Colin left, MO told everyone that they had let the content pipeline get empty, my guess would be because they seemed to devote all resources to the expac, while neglecting everything else.

Since MO has taken back over, there has been consistent updates (once they were ready, they had to refill the pipeline), and it also appears that there won’t be a break in that content this time around.

Rednik.3809:

Fatalyz.7168:

Which would make sense in that game, it’s primary end game content, is raiding. Not so in GW2.

So, are you going to say that anet will drop their focus on raids and stop making new wings instead of fractals and dungeons?

Nope, they won’t. Their primary focus is on LS. Fractals get frequent updates. Raids? Since the first wing (which was to be part of HoT), has released one Raid, 9 months after the first.

Do you have to wait 9 months to get new content in other parts of the game? Would you be willing to wait that?

Also, there was nothing in my post to even suggest that they would stop developing raids.

Jski.6180:

They could just make a different looking armor set for each races over trying to use the same for all races so you do not need to make it work. Outfits already very from races to races why not make armor the same way.

You simply make that side different then the other side then there would be nothing that blocks where your looking…

While they could create different skins and lock them behind race, that doesn’t prove that it would be faster than what we have currently. It only says it could be done a different way.

Even doing it the way that you suggested would still take time. This is because of the fact that every new armor piece has to be compared to other armor skins that are already in the game, and make sure to reduce/minimize any clipping with those other pieces, simply because they can be mixed and matched. This is also why they are able to produce outfits at a much faster pace than armor skins, they don’t have to match or worry about clipping with those sets, because they can’t be mixed and matched.

Jski.6180:

The mess up is spending this time work time on skins when they could be doing it on balancing and very big problems about gw2 wvw spvp and even pve. Skins should be an after though more then the main thing.

Do you have any proof that they aren’t spending time working on balance or your “very big problems about gw2” or is it just your opinion?

Also in relation to Legendary armor, had they not have made that, there is no evidence that they would have done anything with the other areas of the game, that you think that they should have. In fact, had there been no Legendary armor, they most likely would have either just made more skins for the rest of the game, or just put more skins behind raids.

Jski.6180:

It realty takes that long to make it smaller for asura (that all looks like the same armor M vs F) and add a tail hold for the charr? There is something else going on here please stop giving anet an out they messed up and they need to be told as such.

If you think it takes too long, please come up with a way for them to do it faster. I’m all ears.

Do you have any proof that there is something else going on or just your opinion?

How did they mess up?

Jski.6180:

And at the end of the day the shoulder seem to blind a person trying to do a ranged attk with a bow if they cant fix that in a few years i am not sure what they are doing with there time.

You are assuming it is a simple fix. If you are not assuming, please enlighten the rest of us as to how simple of a fix it really is (facts mind you, not your opinion).

Jski.6180:

zealex.9410:

Jski.6180:

CrustyBot.3564:

Well if you have the right attitude, get the right build and find a good guild, you could farm LS3 maps for ascended trinkets and get into training raids in a couple of weeks. None of this play for a year stuff. You’d ideally have full ascended gear for raiding but it’s not a hard requirement unlike T4 fractals, where agony procs just 1 shot you if your AR is too low.

That the thing they cant do all of ls3 unless they pay for it. If you miss the LS as it comes out you got to pay for it after the fact to go into the new maps. This game is not made for new ppl.

im sorry but how the fact that the new maps are b2p if you didnt log in makes the game unfriendly? If he has hot then he can join do the story then move on from there. And what is the low lvl open world content?

Because they have to pay for something that others did not…. that a blunt tax on ppl who are new to the game.

And that is unfriendly, how exactly?

Sounds like a business to me.

Einlanzer.1627:

My biggest complaint is not with how the armor itself looks, it’s mostly fine – it’s just that it’s absurd to take years to develop three sets of armor. Something is massively wrong with this game’s engine and/or Anet’s management that such an insane amount of time is put into such small amounts of stuff.

I’m sure part of it is the engine, the other part of it is Charr and Asura because they have different models than the humans, Norn, and Sylvari.

If they only had to develop a for a humanoid model, I’m pretty sure we would have a faster turn around on armors.

Jski.6180:

zealex.9410:

Jski.6180:

zealex.9410:

I dissagree with that crafting asc armor now is cheaper. And the game isnt anymore grind than what it was prehot. To Op i’d say the game is good if playing casually at your own pace and you can slowly start doing pve if you want or just pvp or w/e really.

http://gw2crafts.net/

Look at the prices just to get to the point where you can craft.

Then you need to make the ascned level crafting mats if you do it with the cd it takes a long time if you buy your way though it its a lot of gold. How is crafting gear not cost a lot and or fast?

Then there the rng drops from pve best bet is high level fractals that need ascned armor to even do.

GW2 is not made for new players any more. Something got to get fixed or the community only going to age and never grow.

How is it less for new players than before ? You previously couldnt get into fractals without te asc armor so the first set was always the one you crafted. We cold argue that getting enought gold to get asc armor now is slower due to dungeons being nerfed but the fractals should be quite an ok method of making the needed gold aswell as farming the dungeon paths to get that ez 5g. Also it is highly possible that the recipes gw2 crafts has for 500 are utdated i heard from wp that there are some ecto recipes that are much cheaper and easier and you get 500 with less of a cost. Coul they make it even easier? Ofc they can buff dungeons and since dungeons are already easier than prehot newer players can start from there and start climping on fractals but even tho i want that i dought anet will do that.

Inflation and the lack of ppl running low level open world content.

Do you have any proof of this claim?

zealex.9410:

Rednik.3809:

zealex.9410:

Guys lfr was never made with getting ppl into raiding in mind. It was actually made as a storymode for ppl that didnt have the time or the ability to do the real thing. Every competend raider you will find in wow will tell you that lfr is a waste of time and it doesnt provide you woth nothing against the real thing.

Except it was. LFR was introduced as answer to astonishingly high drop in raider numbers in Cata after Firelands raid. And it worked absolutely amazing, in next addon game suffered a heavy subscribers drop due to casual player hate towards panda setting and mind-numbing grind, but raider numbers actually increased.

Someone who does lfr even if he doesnt move up from there is still considered a raider. So ofc what ever happened to the community would not effect the increase of “raiders”. And from what i understand from alot of ppl i talked to and vids i have watched it was because ppl simply couldnt do raids in their current difficulty and then they made lfr so they have content to do.

Which would make sense in that game, it’s primary end game content, is raiding. Not so in GW2.

Astralporing.1957:

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

The concept of fun doesnt strike you huh?

It does, but it’s in no way impacted by existence of different level of difficulty modes. Or rewards being available by other means.
So, my point still stands. If it’s really about that, why such a strong opposition to other mode suggestions? Are some players’ fun really going to be so much negatively impacted if other players will be able to have fun as well?

Yes, yes it will.

Multi-modual design is a nightmare for balance that leads to easy modes being so trivial as to not be fun.

For people running normal mode. And it would not be a problem for those players, because they would not be running them.

You conveniently cut-off where he was saying why it would be a problem for people running normal modes.

Here, I’ll help you out by providing it to you:

TexZero.7910:

It also leads to even less build diversity at the higher tiers of content as it has to be tunned so aggressively. Additionally it restricts combat design as you cannot have a complex easy mode raid meaning certain mechanics that could be feasible in a single mode raid would never see the light of day as it would mean completely rebuilding the raid encounter.

So to answer your question it absolutely can hurt others.

While yes, normal raid runners won’t run easy modes, just having easy modes can have an impact other areas of raid design, and he and myself, do not want that.

Are you suggesting that you don’t care if raid design is impacted and the overall quality diminished, just to add multiple levels of difficulty?

Guizao.4167:

(I’m wondering why people don’t like trench coats and buttcapes)

If I were to venture a guess, it would be because that is a majority of the armors that we have. People would like variety.

Well, more variety.

apharma.3741:

Edit: Who wants to bet they forgot about infusion slots on the legendary armour?

They specifcally said that if you apply an upgrade to Legendary armor, infusion or rune, it would place the one that was currently socketed, into your inventory.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/legendary-armor-is-coming-soon/

Here is the relevant quote from that article:
“When you apply an upgrade (rune or infusion) to a piece of legendary armor and there is already an upgrade in the slot you have selected, the existing upgrade will be moved to your inventory and the new upgrade will replace it. Simple as that.”

4th paragraph from the end.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Xillllix.3485:

If they fixed raids to be playable by anyone without having to waste 3 hours looking for a party then nobody would be complaining. Anet needs difficulty settings for their dungeons and instanced content.

If you are wasting 3 hours looking for a party, either extend your friends list, join a guild, or join a static group. People choosing to waste 3 hours of their own time looking for a group, are doing exactly that, choosing to do it.

and how many hours does it take to find these things you speak of?

is it required for most of the rest of the game?

how long does it take once you get these groups and you are the new guy?

1) It would be reasonable to assume that someone that is playing an MMO, will have made friends or found a guild to run with. If that person is intent on being solo, what part of Challenging GROUP Content, would appeal to them?

2) Nope, but then Raids weren’t designed to be like the rest of the game.

3) Not sure what you are asking. How long does it take before you start getting kills, how long are you waiting to start, can you be more specific?

Blaeys.3102:

I agree this isn’t why the content was originally developed. However,I believe that, based on player feedback and perceptions the past 2 years, it is time to extend that experience. I believe this is needed not only for accessibility – but to allow them to really let go when it comes to developing true hardcore raid content as well.

Why do you believe increased accessibility is needed?

While I can understand that you want Raid resources increased, and getting them to do tiered difficulty is one way to do it.

I disagree with you, I do not want more difficulty levels for Raids nor do I want expanded resources for them, and I do not think it is needed, regardless of perception.

The reason I can say I do not believe it is needed, is because there isn’t a need for Anet to do it. You’ve said yourself in previous posts that you do not think that it will hurt their bottom line much down the road. If it isn’t going to hurt their bottom line or kill the game, it isn’t needed. Especially when they do not want a raid-centric game, or the GW2 story in raids. They have been developing open world as their primary end game, for better or worse, and it is the right direction to continue going, imo.

Blaeys.3102:

The real question becomes the exact question you ask – how much effort it would take to do so. I agrue the existence of challenge motes in the last wing indicates it wouldnt take any more than they exhibited in making that wing.

I would argue that the inclusion of the Challenge Motes hurt the original content that they were trying to create, and should have just stuck to making the whole thing better, with just one mode.

Granted, I think that the Challenge Motes would have been more universally praised by raiders, instead of scorned, had there been increased rewards for killing the boss or whole wing, like repeating the achievement, just not as much in the way of rewards. Think like Nightmare Challenge, it is loved by many, because it is harder than normal, and there is a reason to run it. Something that the Raid Challenge Motes failed to deliver on, repeatable content. The way it was done, there wasn’t much reason to do it again once you did it.

It’s also entirely possible that the inclusion of those challenge motes, is what caused the 9-month delay until Raid 2 was shipped. Where without them, we could have had it in 6-7 months (we don’t know, just throwing out numbers).

I don’t know about you, but I’m not willing to wait more time between raids, for them to be able to include more motes for different levels of challenges, nor am I willing to sacrifice anything from any other part of the game.

Blaeys.3102:

But, at the same time, recognize that there are players who would really enjoy the raid fights, narrative, etc at a lower level of difficulty (and, again, by offering that, they would be free to put in more difficult encounters for those – including me – that want that kind of thing).

They recognize that those players exist, they specifically didn’t create this content for them.

So the question is, why should they change their stance on it? Perception? They knew the perception beforehand and embraced it. Because people want it? Pretty sure that not enough want it, for it to become a priority. Although if you have numbers indicating that a significant portion of the population wants it (>50% of the population across all regions, not just NA), I sure would like to see those.

I’m not asking how easy or little effort you think it will take to implement, I’m asking why should it be.

Xillllix.3485:

If they fixed raids to be playable by anyone without having to waste 3 hours looking for a party then nobody would be complaining. Anet needs difficulty settings for their dungeons and instanced content.

If you are wasting 3 hours looking for a party, either extend your friends list, join a guild, or join a static group. People choosing to waste 3 hours of their own time looking for a group, are doing exactly that, choosing to do it.

Rednik.3809:

NikeEU.7690:

You don’t have the data for that claim. The overwhelming majority do the story mode and are done. Only a marginally tiny section use it to break into raiding and become real raiders. How small is this number exactly? Neither of us know, but you can be sure Anet doesn’t feel its worth the resources to create additional modes to cater to this tiny group of players.

Oddly enough the entire concept of an infantile mode of each fight is nonsense. If people wanted to use easy mode as a stepping stone you’d only need one boss for that. And really with cairn and escort we have tgat so the stepping stone theory is pretty much bunk.

I’m a alot more sympathetic to people who want a story mode of each raid for the sake of experience but that is NOT the same group of players who want easy mode for training purposes. And obviously a minimal rewards story mode for each raid is significantly more work for the devs and it’s not entirely clear how how many people that group of players actually is.

For WoW conversation rate is ~1/10, data was available during previous expansion. So 10% of LFR new players are not stopping and moving to normal, 10% of normal raiders are becoming fresh blood for HC and so on.

Is this supposed to prove something? If so, you should be providing links, otherwise it’s just your word.

Brigantia.5746:

Fatalyz.7168:

Brigantia.5746:

Fatalyz.7168:

Brigantia.5746:

Aesthetically, I don’t hate the armor but like some of the others also pointed out. . . I am surprised that after 2 years a trench coat was chosen. . . The community has been vocal on wanting to see other variations for medium armor. . .

The trench coat was chosen 2 years ago. They had already decided on it before the outcry from the preview of the precursor, and told us that it wouldn’t change.

Right, but I have seen people voice displeasure with trenchcoats on forums and in game since I have played this game from the start.

That may be, but complaining about an aesthetic that was chosen years ago, and the community was told then, when they complained, that it wasn’t changing, doesn’t provide anything constructive, it’s just rehashing previous complaints.

I’m not complaining. I said I don’t hate it. I provided my feedback to it.

You may not have complained, but the community has. You provided feedback on the armor like you expected something different. Expecting something different than a trenchcoat, when we were told it was going to be a trenchcoat isn’t really useful feedback. I informed you that they are aware of the aesthetic choice that people disagree with, confirmed that they were aware of it, and still chose to go with the design.

Brigantia.5746:

Fatalyz.7168:

Brigantia.5746:

Aesthetically, I don’t hate the armor but like some of the others also pointed out. . . I am surprised that after 2 years a trench coat was chosen. . . The community has been vocal on wanting to see other variations for medium armor. . .

The trench coat was chosen 2 years ago. They had already decided on it before the outcry from the preview of the precursor, and told us that it wouldn’t change.

Right, but I have seen people voice displeasure with trenchcoats on forums and in game since I have played this game from the start.

That may be, but complaining about an aesthetic that was chosen years ago, and the community was told then, when they complained, that it wasn’t changing, doesn’t provide anything constructive, it’s just rehashing previous complaints.

Brigantia.5746:

Aesthetically, I don’t hate the armor but like some of the others also pointed out. . . I am surprised that after 2 years a trench coat was chosen. . . The community has been vocal on wanting to see other variations for medium armor. . .

The trench coat was chosen 2 years ago. They had already decided on it before the outcry from the preview of the precursor, and told us that it wouldn’t change.

Blaeys.3102:

NikeEU.7690:

So no, I don’t want people with the narrowest, most myopic, most exclusionary view of fun and good gameplay imaginable having any influence whatsoever.

This is how many people see the hardcore raiding community in GW2 – as myopic and exclusionary.

And guess what, they are wrong as well. The reality is somewhere in the middle. People have to accept that different people play the game for very different reasons. And none of those are the “wrong” way to play, even when it comes to something like raids.

The whole purpose of multiple modes is to address that idea of different types of playstyles. And it is not only important from an accessibility perspective. It is needed, imo, to ensure that the integrity of harder modes remains intact – giving developers free rein to make blistering hard content without having to water it down (because the accessibility piece is covered in a different mode).

The comments of posters on their facebook page – in online media like Massively – on Reddit -etc – it is all important (but, at the same time, has to be looked at as part of bigger whole and with a realistic outlook). Those are customers and potential customers. While some are reactionary, inflammatory and irrational (as are some on these forums), that doesn’t discredit them all. Some are just looking for a fun experience in raids – one they cannot find in the current raid model.

The whole purpose of multi-modes is to try to increase accessibility, which I do not want. I also do not want Anet spending any more resources than what they are currently spending on raids, and to continue developing the rest of the game. Luckily for me, that is so far exactly what they are doing.

Astralporing.1957:

Fatalyz.7168:

And since that perception is there, that is why there are people in those forums educating people.

Ironically, all those attempts only make that perception stronger.

And if those people can’t take that education and learn from it, we don’t want them in the game mode, and only fight to preserve it harder.

Pino.5209:

Fatalyz.7168:

Pino.5209:

Fatalyz.7168:

Heibi.4251:

Fatalyz.7168:

Heibi.4251:

xikira.3264:

I think legendary armor should be avaliable to obtain in some way in every game mode pvp, pve and wvw. Yes it should be extremely hard to get in any type of game mode. But it should not be locked behind a game mode a majority of guild wars dosnt play.

This sums it up in a nutshell. I certainly hope ANeT is actually reading this thread instead of tooting their horn. It seems like they ignore the concerns of players who dislike the raids.

Why would they listen to complaints about having to do Raids to obtain Legendary armor, when it was announced 2 years ago that the first Legendary armor was going to be locked behind raids. I don’t see them changing the current model, however I do see them developing armors for other game modes.

No, apparently they won’t with the current way they ignore the concerns of the MAJORITY of players.

As soon as it was announced that they would lock something that players were actually wanting behind a game mode most players dislike ANeT could have said they would be also developing armor for outside the raids. But they did not. Instead they did what they did with WvW when they decided to turn every borderland into a desert and ignored the feedback they instantly received. You see, with the desert BLs they had done so much work developing them that they sure as kitten were not going to shelve the project. Now it is the same with Legendary Armor. They’ve put too much work into how to get them, along with design, that there is no way that we will see anything outside of raids coming to our game mode any time soon. So I’m not holding my breath that ANeT will actually announce that they will create a non-raid way obtain Legendary Armor. Thanks for ignoring us, ANeT.

Sounds like you were ignoring what Anet was telling you they were going to do, hoping that community would be able to sway their opinion, and on somethings, they have. Been when they flat out tell you what it is and how it is to be obtained, if you objected to that, you should have not bought HoT.

Well, this is true.
Players has been saying/wanting it outside raid too. Anet already said NO to that with HoT expansion. Is it a correct path to take? Anet think that is a Yes.
Mind you this is the same ppl who thought their e-sport was going to take off and HoT expansion’s pvp contents was going to be a success.
./shrugs

I don’t think Anet has ever said “NO” to Legendary armor outside of Raids. They just said that the first Legendary armor in the game, would be earned in Raids. This leads me to believe that they intend(ed) to make more, that could be available through other game modes.

I really can’t recall when did they say the “first” legendary armor? ie. implying there are more to come.
I could be wrong.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/

Second to last paragraph: “Secondly, raids will introduce the very first ever set of legendary armor.”

Pino.5209:

Fatalyz.7168:

Heibi.4251:

Fatalyz.7168:

Heibi.4251:

xikira.3264:

I think legendary armor should be avaliable to obtain in some way in every game mode pvp, pve and wvw. Yes it should be extremely hard to get in any type of game mode. But it should not be locked behind a game mode a majority of guild wars dosnt play.

This sums it up in a nutshell. I certainly hope ANeT is actually reading this thread instead of tooting their horn. It seems like they ignore the concerns of players who dislike the raids.

Why would they listen to complaints about having to do Raids to obtain Legendary armor, when it was announced 2 years ago that the first Legendary armor was going to be locked behind raids. I don’t see them changing the current model, however I do see them developing armors for other game modes.

No, apparently they won’t with the current way they ignore the concerns of the MAJORITY of players.

As soon as it was announced that they would lock something that players were actually wanting behind a game mode most players dislike ANeT could have said they would be also developing armor for outside the raids. But they did not. Instead they did what they did with WvW when they decided to turn every borderland into a desert and ignored the feedback they instantly received. You see, with the desert BLs they had done so much work developing them that they sure as kitten were not going to shelve the project. Now it is the same with Legendary Armor. They’ve put too much work into how to get them, along with design, that there is no way that we will see anything outside of raids coming to our game mode any time soon. So I’m not holding my breath that ANeT will actually announce that they will create a non-raid way obtain Legendary Armor. Thanks for ignoring us, ANeT.

Sounds like you were ignoring what Anet was telling you they were going to do, hoping that community would be able to sway their opinion, and on somethings, they have. Been when they flat out tell you what it is and how it is to be obtained, if you objected to that, you should have not bought HoT.

Well, this is true.
Players has been saying/wanting it outside raid too. Anet already said NO to that with HoT expansion. Is it a correct path to take? Anet think that is a Yes.
Mind you this is the same ppl who thought their e-sport was going to take off and HoT expansion’s pvp contents was going to be a success.
./shrugs

I don’t think Anet has ever said “NO” to Legendary armor outside of Raids. They just said that the first Legendary armor in the game, would be earned in Raids. This leads me to believe that they intend(ed) to make more, that could be available through other game modes.

Heibi.4251:

Fatalyz.7168:

Heibi.4251:

xikira.3264:

I think legendary armor should be avaliable to obtain in some way in every game mode pvp, pve and wvw. Yes it should be extremely hard to get in any type of game mode. But it should not be locked behind a game mode a majority of guild wars dosnt play.

This sums it up in a nutshell. I certainly hope ANeT is actually reading this thread instead of tooting their horn. It seems like they ignore the concerns of players who dislike the raids.

Why would they listen to complaints about having to do Raids to obtain Legendary armor, when it was announced 2 years ago that the first Legendary armor was going to be locked behind raids. I don’t see them changing the current model, however I do see them developing armors for other game modes.

No, apparently they won’t with the current way they ignore the concerns of the MAJORITY of players.

As soon as it was announced that they would lock something that players were actually wanting behind a game mode most players dislike ANeT could have said they would be also developing armor for outside the raids. But they did not. Instead they did what they did with WvW when they decided to turn every borderland into a desert and ignored the feedback they instantly received. You see, with the desert BLs they had done so much work developing them that they sure as kitten were not going to shelve the project. Now it is the same with Legendary Armor. They’ve put too much work into how to get them, along with design, that there is no way that we will see anything outside of raids coming to our game mode any time soon. So I’m not holding my breath that ANeT will actually announce that they will create a non-raid way obtain Legendary Armor. Thanks for ignoring us, ANeT.

Sounds like you were ignoring what Anet was telling you they were going to do, hoping that community would be able to sway their opinion, and on somethings, they have. Been when they flat out tell you what it is and how it is to be obtained, if you objected to that, you should have not bought HoT.

Blaeys.3102:

For all of those complaining that this topic has somehow run its course or that it isnt worth continuing, I would recommend that they (and ArenaNet) take a close look at pretty much every mention of GW2 raids outside of the forums – GW2 Facebook, MassivelyOP, MMORPG, etc. Read the comments sections on articles, Facebook etc, pretty much every time raids are brought up.

ArenaNet has a negative perception issue when it comes to raids. A lot of people see raids as inaccessible. Whether you think that is accurate or not in game is immaterial. The perception (which I actually do agree with) is there and it is very evident.

In my opinion, raids need a multi mode access model to address these perceptions (which again, I believe are based on in game realities). And, yes, in many cases it would do exactly that (or, at minimum, show players that Anet is paying attention to them).
Regardless of what happens in game, however, the persistent negative comments every time raids are mentioned outside of this subforum show that this is a topic that not only needs to continue – it is one Anet needs to pay close attention to.

And since that perception is there, that is why there are people in those forums educating people. If those people still feel that it is inaccessible after being educated, it on themselves.

Anet does not Need to do anything to adjust the perception of raids. They sold raids as Challenging Group Content and that it would be exclusively for those that craved the biggest challenges in Guild Wars 2. They set that perception themselves.

The best place and best experience would be in a training guild. There are some listed in the LFG section in the forums.

I’ve seen people say on the forums that they have gone into Lion’s Arch Aerodome and start asking in map chap, and would get picked up for a couple of bosses.

You can check LFG to see if there are any training runs going and join. If there are not any running, you can always start one.

Before all of that, you’ll need to gear out at least one character for raiding, you can check out qtfy.enjin.com/builds for current accepted builds for raids. These aren’t the only builds that will work, but to go outside them, requires building a team that can still handle the mechanics and provide the buffs your team will need to clear the content.

Heibi.4251:

xikira.3264:

I think legendary armor should be avaliable to obtain in some way in every game mode pvp, pve and wvw. Yes it should be extremely hard to get in any type of game mode. But it should not be locked behind a game mode a majority of guild wars dosnt play.

This sums it up in a nutshell. I certainly hope ANeT is actually reading this thread instead of tooting their horn. It seems like they ignore the concerns of players who dislike the raids.

Why would they listen to complaints about having to do Raids to obtain Legendary armor, when it was announced 2 years ago that the first Legendary armor was going to be locked behind raids. I don’t see them changing the current model, however I do see them developing armors for other game modes.

Astralporing.1957:

Fatalyz.7168:

Astralporing.1957:

And the reason Raiders want it to stay that way is because most of them do not really want for the majority of players to be able to do them.

I will flat out disagree with this. I would say most raiders want to stay the way that it is, because they want the prestige that comes with completing it. Prestige comes from being able to accomplish things that other are not, nothing malicious in it.

That’s the same. They want for the prestige to be available to as small number of people as possible, to increase it’s value. At the same time they know that actual skill requirements are not that high (because, seriously, if they were high that a lot of those raiders would scream bloody murder after realizing they don’t actually qualify). The limiting factor is the learning process (and, in other games, gear, but fortunately this factor is way less important in gw2). Thus, majority of raiders would never want for any mechanics to be introduced that would make that learning process easier/less painful for others.
You managed to get through the hazing process on your own? Good, now you’re part of the club. You got in through training runs some part of community organized? Also good, because we let you in. You think that some additional mechanics might make it more fun and help with learning? Heaven forbid, that’s a heresy.

No need to introduce new mechanics or methods of learning, again this content is meant to appeal to a specific subset of people, the fact that other people are interested in it as well, speaks to it’s success.

Fatalyz.7168:

And for players that can’t learn in the current environment, it wasn’t meant for them anyway, because what about “Challenging Group Content” would attract someone who isn’t up to a challenge?

Astralporing.1957:

About “challenging Group Content”? Maybe nothing, but that’s not all that is present in raids, is it. Also, challenge is relative.
Besides, challenge may make you attempt raids, but it won’t keep you there. For everyone raiding consistently challenge is pretty much long gone. So, it’s obvious there are other, much more important factors that keep people playing them. For some, those may be the only important factors, even.

Yes challenge is subjective, however in this instance Anet told us what challenging is in their game, and even more so that it was Challenging Group Content.

It’s not about whether they find it challenging, it’s about whether they find the challenge presented fun, and so far, the target audience for Raids has.

Fatalyz.7168:

It also doesn’t matter if everyone learns differently, this content was designed with a specific subset of players in mind, not as a one size fits all, or a find your challenge level.

Astralporing.1957:

No, there are several components to that content that each have been designed with a specific subset of players in mind. Unfortunately, those are not the same subsets.

There was only one component to that content that was designed for a specific subset of players, players who wanted Challenging Group Content. Go back and listen to the reveal trailers. The fact that others want things that can be obtained from it, means that they are more likely to give it a try than they may have before. They may end up liking it, and they may not. Just because they don’t like it and can not get the reward that they want, is not reason to justify a change, unless it is a large enough base to hurt your bottom line, and I don’t think that they are there yet.

Edit: formatting.

Hitman.5829:

Fatalyz.7168:

Hitman.5829:

Why is the damage dealt not the same each time? I have tested this with a warrior rifle, no runes and sigils, no boons, and no conditions on the target.

The damage dealt seems to be random and sometimes the damage decrease is up to -12.78%

There is a damage range on each weapon, indicating the range of damage it is capable of. Since there is a range of damage each weapon does, it makes sense that not every hit will do the same damage.

Did you look at the picture? it is the same skill and I was shooting at the same distance so your explanation is wrong.

Since you seemed to have trouble understanding me, I have given you a screenshot illustrating my point, and proving me correct.

Hitman.5829:

Fatalyz.7168:

Hitman.5829:

Why is the damage dealt not the same each time? I have tested this with a warrior rifle, no runes and sigils, no boons, and no conditions on the target.

The damage dealt seems to be random and sometimes the damage decrease is up to -12.78%

There is a damage range on each weapon, indicating the range of damage it is capable of. Since there is a range of damage each weapon does, it makes sense that not every hit will do the same damage.

Did you look at the picture? it is the same skill and I was shooting at the same distance so your explanation is wrong.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle

The damage range on the rifle is 1035-1265. The explanation I gave you was correct, you just didn’t bother to look at the damage range of the weapon you are wielding, instead of just looking at the skill description.

Hitman.5829:

Why is the damage dealt not the same each time? I have tested this with a warrior rifle, no runes and sigils, no boons, and no conditions on the target.

The damage dealt seems to be random and sometimes the damage decrease is up to -12.78%

There is a damage range on each weapon, indicating the range of damage it is capable of. Since there is a range of damage each weapon does, it makes sense that not every hit will do the same damage.

Jski.6180:

Wait are you saying GW2 is only for raiders now? That one bold clam your making. I think raids are the reason why GW2 is in such a sad state hell legendary armor skins are the dam reason why they not been put out yet. They could of put out the effect of legendary armor on any gen skin and ppl would of been happy. But no they had to put work into making it look different and what sounds like years of work too. Why not put that work into making the game play better or balancing out classes better. This is a complete waist of every ones time. Every one who plays GW2 should be outrages by this.

That is not anywhere near close to what I said. I said if you bought into the expansion pack to obtain armor, and didn’t want to do raids to do it, you should be complaining that Legendary armor is behind raids, because that was what was announced with HoT and Raids.

Yes, this team could have been used elsewhere, however it is highly likely that they would have been producing other raid exclusive skins, had it not been for Legendary armor.

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

And why was the wepon different they removed map completion from the wepon from wvw and made it more of a “buy” thing why would they just do the same thing as wvw map completion as raids boss fights when you will be able to simply buy your way though it. This is the same problem with legendary weapons and keeped them from becoming legendary. Nothing was learn and they are making the same errors over.

Probably because it never made sense to have wvw tied to map completion? Having to kill bosses to prove mastery, or at least completion of the target content, makes sense. Legendary armor is raid armor, it makes sense to have to do things associated with raids.

Legendary armor IS legendary armor there is raid armor and skins that different.

You are trying to separate the two, and they are not. Legendary armor IS raid armor. You want it to be different, but that doesn’t change what it IS. Which is raid armor that happens to be of Legendary quality.

No. Raid armor is the armor / skins dropped by the boss in raid to call legendary armor raid armor is like calling legendary weapons map completion weapons.[/quote]

Raid armor and skins drop from bosses, yes. Legendary armor is also Raid armor. It doesn’t have to be dropped from bosses to be called Raid armor. It is called Raid armor because the only way to obtain it is through raids. It was also sold to us by Anet as the ultimate reward for raiding. So, again, yes, Legendary armor is RAID armor, regardless of what you believe.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

And why was the wepon different they removed map completion from the wepon from wvw and made it more of a “buy” thing why would they just do the same thing as wvw map completion as raids boss fights when you will be able to simply buy your way though it. This is the same problem with legendary weapons and keeped them from becoming legendary. Nothing was learn and they are making the same errors over.

Probably because it never made sense to have wvw tied to map completion? Having to kill bosses to prove mastery, or at least completion of the target content, makes sense. Legendary armor is raid armor, it makes sense to have to do things associated with raids.

Legendary armor IS legendary armor there is raid armor and skins that different.

You are trying to separate the two, and they are not. Legendary armor IS raid armor. You want it to be different, but that doesn’t change what it IS. Which is raid armor that happens to be of Legendary quality.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

its not illegal to come in through my own back window. And if a dude tries to sell me a house that i specifically cant get into the front door, but i can use the back window, im going to say that is a kittenty design for the house you are trying to sell me.

Point is, selling runs is not a game design choice, its a work around. its not illegal, but its not how developers expected people to access the content. Therefore people arguing that it is poor game design dont have to consider that element, because it is not part of the game design.

If you want to say raids being required for legendary armor is fine, there are some reasons, grey market selling of runs is not really one them.

While true that that may not be how developers intended for the armor to be obtained, it doesn’t nullify it as a valid way to obtain the armor. You may not agree with it, that is fine. The point being, Anet allows it, so it is a valid option to obtaining the gear, if you can’t raid to obtain it.

Its normal that if i want to get in my house, and the front door sucks, that i will use my back window. But that doesnt mean i wont demand they fix or redesign my front door.

Yes paying people is a way people can get around having to do raid, no that is not a good game design solution to the problem, and people who design the game can expect people to try get them to come up with a better game design.

They may already have plans for this, but dont expect people to be satisfied with an unsupported gamble, that involves not playing the game as intended.

You shouldn’t have bought a house expecting to get in the front door, when the front door was never meant for you, if you wanted to be able to go through the front door, that is. And if you already bought it, demanding that it be changed seems a little pointless, as they are under not obligation to fix anything.

Astralporing.1957:

And the reason Raiders want it to stay that way is because most of them do not really want for the majority of players to be able to do them.

I will flat out disagree with this. I would say most raiders want to stay the way that it is, because they want the prestige that comes with completing it. Prestige comes from being able to accomplish things that other are not, nothing malicious in it.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

every single one of your posts seems to imply that the average Gw2 isn’t all that smart since you always make statements like, “new players cannot learn by themselves.”

Astralporing.1957:

It has absolutely no relations to intelligence. It’s muscle memory and reaction time. And being smart won’t make the learning process faster even a little bit.

Not every player is the same. The effort every person needs to put in to be able to do raids is different. For some it will be really easy, for others it will be harder. Also, the best ways of learning it are also different – some woud do fine when thrown into the deep water (the model now), others would rather take it slow, step by step (or they might drown).

And for players that can’t learn in the current environment, it wasn’t meant for them anyway, because what about “Challenging Group Content” would attract someone who isn’t up to a challenge?

It also doesn’t matter if everyone learns differently, this content was designed with a specific subset of players in mind, not as a one size fits all, or a find your challenge level.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

And why was the wepon different they removed map completion from the wepon from wvw and made it more of a “buy” thing why would they just do the same thing as wvw map completion as raids boss fights when you will be able to simply buy your way though it. This is the same problem with legendary weapons and keeped them from becoming legendary. Nothing was learn and they are making the same errors over.

Probably because it never made sense to have wvw tied to map completion? Having to kill bosses to prove mastery, or at least completion of the target content, makes sense. Legendary armor is raid armor, it makes sense to have to do things associated with raids.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

its not illegal to come in through my own back window. And if a dude tries to sell me a house that i specifically cant get into the front door, but i can use the back window, im going to say that is a kittenty design for the house you are trying to sell me.

Point is, selling runs is not a game design choice, its a work around. its not illegal, but its not how developers expected people to access the content. Therefore people arguing that it is poor game design dont have to consider that element, because it is not part of the game design.

If you want to say raids being required for legendary armor is fine, there are some reasons, grey market selling of runs is not really one them.

While true that that may not be how developers intended for the armor to be obtained, it doesn’t nullify it as a valid way to obtain the armor. You may not agree with it, that is fine. The point being, Anet allows it, so it is a valid option to obtaining the gear, if you can’t raid to obtain it.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

1st off the game is very far from a capitalist design.

2nd that is a crappy game design, because the solution is to not play the content, and incentivizes the most explotive farm currently available as the way to advance.

Which is why capitalism is a crappy design for this type of game. Capitalism focuses on the most efficient money making technique, where as adventure games, generally want to focus on adventure.

I’m not saying no one should sell or buy runs, but that is not part of the game design, it isnt a feasible answer for bringing legendaries to the non Raid population. Its a work around that some people are willing to do, not a feature.

Just like coming in to my house through the back window is not a feature of the house’s design, Nor would it be an excuse for poorly designed front door that only 5% of the population wants to go through.

There are some valid argumenets for why maybe having a requirement in raids makes a type of sense, the fact that people buy runs isnt really a strong contender there.

The difference between your back window example and buying runs. One is illegal (trespassing, breaking and entering, etc) the other has been allowed by the developers.

And on the poorly designed front door, if you are trying to keep out all but 5%, then that door achieved it’s goal.

Jski.6180:

Out side of raids where dose metor need an icd for NPC not players? Its sounds like your trying to justified after the fact with nothing to realty back it up.

Where does it need it? Fractals, dungeons, world boss events, shall I keep going? It was over performing in all of those environments. They most likely didn’t care before because, well open world and dungeons. However, with the damage that eles could do, they over shadowed everything, not just in raids.

Jski.6180:

That the same argument ppl used to remove map composition from wvw and anet did how long befor they do the same with raids requirement for legendary armor why wait?

I’m pretty comfortable in saying that they won’t remove the requirements for raids from this Legendary armor set. And the reason to not do it, was because Anet sold it to us as the ultimate raid reward.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 been a game for 5 years and the same thing has happen a few times where anet gets locked in on the new thing and try to stay with it but offten they dont. It just happens raids are the new thing and they will hold with them for a time but its not going to last raids will be forgotten much like dungeons reworks. Stop enabling anet to do this cyclical over and over.

If you think raids are a new thing, you haven’t been paying attention. Raids have been in the making for at least half of this games life (iirc Raids were announced close to 2 years ago and before then they were already being worked on, we just didn’t have confirmation before then. The closest we had to confirmation that they were looking for a lead raid designer).

Do you have any proof that Raids aren’t going to last and that they will become abandoned like dungeons? Or are you making things up?

Fay.2357:

Fatalyz.7168:

Fay.2357:

abaddon.3290:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Feanor.2358:

Like The Ascension isn’t tied to PvP and Ad Infinitum isn’t tied to Fractals of the Mists? Both require you to play a LOT in their respective modes.

The point is, I have an option if I want a back item between two very different game modes. Not so for armour.

so your complaining anet hasnt commited suicide from caffeine working so hard to get 2 sets of Armour out at once and put them in different game modes at the same time? jesus dude give them some time! patience is a virtue.

Yeah, they’re really working at a strict pace here! We can’t expect them to pump out a single set of armor in less than 2 years, can we? That’s just absurd. We all know that normal teams would take at least 4 years to make it! They’re practically working at lightning speed here!

And you can produce armor sets with their engine faster?

They manage to pump out a gem store outfit every 2 weeks. Maybe if they dedicated half of the artists working on those to making legendary armor it wouldn’t have taken 2 years.

Perhaps, but they didn’t so it’s kind of a moot point.

The point is you are making sarcastic remarks about what they are doing with their time, and you don’t even know if you could do as well, let alone better.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

Seems anet dose not want that and this is far from a capitalist environment lol.

Anet does not what what? You paying for runs? They have said that they don’t mind, they won’t support it, so if you get taken advantage of, you are on your own.

What’s not capitalistic about paying for raid runs? You have a need, to be able to complete content, some one is offering to meet that need, at a price. There isn’t anything there that doesn’t seem capitalistic. Perhaps you could explain what you think capitalism is?

Jski.6180:

Well there skill changes base off of raids boss fights and the cut back on ele dmg over all vs “end game content.” “With that said, we’re also looking to reduce the elementalist’s damage in high-level content, as this profession’s damage and utility mix currently crowds out other potential high-damage dealers.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6516356
Read this please.

I’m familiar with those notes, if you would go back and read my conversation with you, I even said with the exception of Meteor Shower, but that it was arguably overpowered in other parts of the game as well. So yes, while raids played a part in it getting nerfed, it should have been nerfed long before HoT ever came out, and by extension, raids.

Jski.6180:

At the end of the you could get all the gear you needed from every event in the game and legendary weapons where a mix of event over all though gw2 with a old wvw lock that they lost when they found ppl did not want to do map completion in wvw yet you need to do more in raids to get the armor… I am not sure how many different ways i can say this Anet is trying to forces raids on ppl.

Requiring more be done in a specific content, to obtain the most prestigious item for said content is not them forcing anything on us.

Weapons were general prestige items for people who participated in multiple forms of content. Legendary armor, at least this iteration of it, is a prestige item for people who participate in raids, of course you are going to have to do a lot of raid related things to do them. That’s like complaining that you had to do a lot of pvp for Ascension or a lot of Fractals for Ad Infinitum.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Every one else will just buy them because legendary armor promotes that type of play. Nothing to do with being skilled-full just pay that gold to ppl.

And that is certainly an option for people to partake in, pay for runs. If you don’t want to do it, but want the reward, pay someone to do it for you. Seems perfectly acceptable in a capitalist environment.

Scipio.3204:

Fatalyz.7168:

Scipio.3204:

Harper.4173:

If you have someone that can’t raid ( because of low skill) – if they’re hardcore enough about the game they can get the armor – they can buy the runs with gold.

Just a question. If it weren’t possible to buy raid runs, your argument would be that one could hire someone to play on his/her account and earn the Legendary Armor that way, therefore they would be accessible?

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Probably this is the mentality that made me think twice in the recent months whether raids are a good addition to GW2 after all. Downgrading everyone who doesn’t want to participate in a game mode that wasn’t part of the game for 3 years , doesn’t have 17.000g by now and can’t afford to spend thousand bucks on a armor set?

Superiority complex is becoming too much of a thing here

Who is being downgraded? Could you be more specific? If you are referring to stats, Legendary is no stronger than Ascended. This will have the utility of being able to change stats, runes, and infusions, without needing multiple sets of gear.

Let me quote again.

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Suddenly if you can’t earn the new Armor set you will be thought as less of a player compared to those who can, and it is starting to show, because you know, you can’t be hardcore if you are incapable of raiding for any reason and you are not loaded.

I think you are reading too much into his statement. You can certainly earn the armor as a casual, the difference being how fast you obtain it. His statement is more about, if you want the armor enough, you’ll get it.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.

Have you looked at these? This is a lot to do with raids and there more to come from the new LS eps.

Yes, I have done them. They are all that is needed from Raids. Both of those collections to obtain the precursor armor, and the legendary insights.

I even said that those collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor. That means that anything that comes from another part of the game, ie LS, is not from raids.

Rednik.3809:

Thing is – these first ones were enthusiasts, and usually with skill and experience above average. Then less skilled/organized/dedicated followed their steps, and so on. But still there is an entry barrier for those who want to learn, and breaching that barrier require either dedicated group that will not fall apart after few hours of wipes, or some way to teach these players and avoid that wipe experience. First option works fine by itself, but puts sharp cutout on percentage of players who will participate in raiding – not everyone is ready to become experienced trough wipefest.

Wiping is part of the experience. You wipe and then you figure out what caused you to wipe, and make the necessary adjustments with yourself, or your group comp. You seem unwilling to accept that wiping is normal and acceptable, and in that light, raids probably aren’t for you, or for people who feel like the way that you describe.

Rednik.3809:

Second option removes that natural cutoff and raises participation percentage a lot, but not appears by itself. Usually that way is opened up by game devs themselves, because nobody likes when developed content misses large (usually majority) of game auditory. In our case devs decided to ignore it, and it’s only partially covered by bandaid training runs made by community.

The devs for GW2 actually intentionally developed content that would not be for the majority and was expected by the developers that a large portion of the game would miss out on it. And guess what else, they are OK with that, because they implemented them knowing that it would do this. There was nothing to ignore, they made a decision and went with it.

Rednik.3809:

Some can, some cannot, some can but not good enough. In the end its all about desired participation percentage from overall player population, percentage of developed content for that slice, and percentage of satisfied paying customers with various combinations of previous two parameters. When that equation is decently balanced, you will get alive game and happy customers. When it balanced poorly, you can get something less desirable, or even a disaster like Wildstar.

And since Raids are developed to be exclusionary content, it is perfectly acceptable to have some that can not, or those that can but not good enough.

You are right tho, in the end it’s about desired participation, and based on what Anet expected from Raids, I’d say they have more than reached their desired population, maybe even surpassed it.

Jski.6180:

There also this.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_II:_Refined_Armor

You need these to get legendary armor it looks like.

This is map completion in wvw for legendary weapons all over but much harder.

These collections and LI are the only thing raid related that you need for Legendary armor, everything else comes from somewhere else in the game, which is quite a lot. There is nothing wrong with this model.