Guild Wars 2

Are you referring to not getting hit by the first boss’ wind up attack (where you have to get into the green circle)?

If so, get with a group of friends/guildmates, and let them know you need the achievement. If they are good friends/guildmates, they will help. I’ve helped people in my guild get the heart. It isn’t difficult, it just requires paying attention, and usually a helping hand or 3.

Uzunari.1964:

Fatalyz.7168:

So all of those items that you received from DS, fractals, jumping puzzles, etc and then most likely either TP’d, vendored, or broken down for mats to use or sell for gold were nothing? I mean I suppose you could have just trashed all of those items, instead of one of those other options, but then that is your own fault, not the games.

Based on this post, it’s fairly obvious, to me at least, that you don’t enjoy the reward structure of this game, or that you feel that the game in general should feel more rewarding (on top of the time gate issue, but that seems more because you don’t enjoy the content and want to finish it as quickly as possible). I’m not sure how you would go about that, as, at least from my end, I feel fairly substantially rewarded in the game already. Literally everything you do makes you gold, except just standing around (I am sure there are those that make that work too, by standing at the TP).

Several times during your post you mentioned that you got “nothing”. Obviously you think you should be getting more than what you got, otherwise you wouldn’t refer to it as “nothing”. It would do you a great service, if you would share what you thought would be a fair reward structure for this game. For example, do you think you should be able to be rewarded with an ascended item just for completing a jumping puzzle?

I suppose we don’t even understand each other but let me put on kind of different statement. I love to play games – I don’t have the time to do it everytime I want so… When I want to play I want to feel rewarded for doing so earn reward. Which means if I have just sat down for 20 hours straight on the game (exaggerated example) I want to feel like I achieved something – but what do I find to be the most up the top reward? Well, usually in MMOs there are lvl caps, gear lvls, pvp and so and so… Let’s say that I want to get to the some top-ish tier of equipment in this game (ascended/legendary) If I just sit down for those 20 hours and think of getting one ascended piece of equipment. I’d do bzilions of DS runs or went to the fractals, it’s quite possible I’d have nothing for there is time gate (do you see the problem now?) there is literally no synergy witch each mode to form some final reward as well, so if I decide to work on several fronts – raid+fractal+ds run+part of the legendary weapon farm I end up with the game time wasted and in final result I still have nothing.. I am one step closer to several things but still have achieved no reward whatsoever. On the other hand If I sit down and play (even) in oldschool mmo such as Lineage and say to myself I want that piece of equipment, I will probably end up having it or drawing really close as there is no time gate but just the need to invest time.

I understand you. You don’t feel rewarded for what you do. I asked what would feel rewarding for you, for what you do. Would be an ascended piece of gear for completing DS or a Jumping puzzle? I’m curious what you think would be a reasonable reward structure. I don’t think that removing the timegate on LI is a good move. It’s perfectly reasonable at 1 per boss per week per account.

You want to feel like you accomplished or achieved something, but you want to do it now, instead of over time, specifically over weeks/months at a time. Instead of seeing the fun as the accomplishment or the achievement, you have your accomplishment/achievement tied to the item you want.
That is where you are going to keep having issues with this game, I think.

Uzunari.1964:

Fatalyz.7168:

Could you please elaborate on this statement? As it stands you are implying that nothing can be obtained from casual play or “fun play”, and that is blatantly false.

Well, It really depends what do one consider fun.
For example I like jumping puzzles in this game, map exploration and overall I consider fun trying every possible activity at least few times. Just like in real life.

Then for example I like hard content which is soloable (for example I did SAB HC for each weapons and both infusions within week) best grind ever, the only time ANet did put it some grindability – 2 infusions and 2 asce weapons within a week? Holy moly!

I got my first ascended set from fractal. I was able to fill in several armors with stat infusions + AR which was a lot of grind (again time gated). So literally only true reward in this game I ever got was that ascended equipment from fractals no other activity ever brought me anything. Those few pvp matches a do a week or hour or so I spent on WvW brounght me literally nothing.. Same as finish story mode or all living world episodes – nothing. XX runs of DS metaevent (which I love) brought me – again nothing.. Except for the fractal and raid I was never close to anything nearly rewarding and in both cases the game was either time gated or required enthusiasm I didn’t really consider fun or casual.

So all of those items that you received from DS, fractals, jumping puzzles, etc and then most likely either TP’d, vendored, or broken down for mats to use or sell for gold were nothing? I mean I suppose you could have just trashed all of those items, instead of one of those other options, but then that is your own fault, not the games.

Based on this post, it’s fairly obvious, to me at least, that you don’t enjoy the reward structure of this game, or that you feel that the game in general should feel more rewarding (on top of the time gate issue, but that seems more because you don’t enjoy the content and want to finish it as quickly as possible). I’m not sure how you would go about that, as, at least from my end, I feel fairly substantially rewarded in the game already. Literally everything you do makes you gold, except just standing around (I am sure there are those that make that work too, by standing at the TP).

Several times during your post you mentioned that you got “nothing”. Obviously you think you should be getting more than what you got, otherwise you wouldn’t refer to it as “nothing”. It would do you a great service, if you would share what you thought would be a fair reward structure for this game. For example, do you think you should be able to be rewarded with an ascended item just for completing a jumping puzzle?

An edit for your edit: That is a possibility, that the game and it’s reward structure just isn’t what you are looking for, perfectly fine, not trying to tell you to leave, just an observation. You mentioned that things change, and one of the things that GW2 has been changing, is requiring more and more time gates to acquire the higher end gear, and I don’t see this changing, mostly because the playerbase of this game, has wanted things to require more effort and time, and not just obtainable in a day (no matter how much time it took).

As for trying new builds, you can easily do that with Exotic armor, and then account for the slight difference in stats, you don’t have to have legendary armor to do that. You can also stat change through the Mystic forge, if you want to try out different stat builds. Legendary armor is not needed for any of that. It certainly makes it easier and a Quality of Life item, but is not required. Legendary armor is most definitely a reward and a huge QoL reward (although that in itself can be argued because it takes longer to switch a build with Legendary armor than multiple sets).

Uzunari.1964:

Fatalyz.7168:

TL:DR – Do you what you enjoy doing, and the rewards will come to you.

That’s not how it works, you either end up grinding something all over or you get nothing. Nothing comes in this game from casual play or “fun play” or those short time spans you could actually afford to grind. The usual grind that we can find in other games simply is nonexistent in gw2.

Could you please elaborate on this statement? As it stands you are implying that nothing can be obtained from casual play or “fun play”, and that is blatantly false.

Uzunari.1964:

zoomborg.9462:

Uzunari dude, the requirements and materials for armor were released 1+ year ago so people actually know how to NOT GET STUCK ON TIMEGATES. So u can go cry somewhere else.

Well, you only prove my point. I have GW2 for the whole time (almost 5 years now).
It doesn’t matter now if my life was way too busy to play or I didn’t have the time to play in those exact intervals (13 LI’s a week). Maybe if I were able to reasonably grind or the system was setup differently. I’d have it now..

Or instead of having to have it now, because you decided you needed it now (instead of realizing that it might be something you might want and started working on it then), you realize that it is a long term project and get to work on it. If working on a long term project in a video game is outside your wheelhouse, then perhaps that reward(s) aren’t intended for you.

Uzunari.1964:

I partially agree that it might be considered long term goal. On the other hand I don’t understand why people who have free resources at certain times and want to spend it, cannot?

There is literally nothing stopping your rather than actual time gate. You would spend the time on doing the armor anyways so why bother locking it behind something that forces you to play the game wants you instead of the way you would like to? <snip>

Whether you consider it a long term goal or not, isn’t really relevant. The fact that it has time gates, screams that Anet wants it to be a long term project.

Because they didn’t want people obtaining everything in a day or week. It really is that simple. It forces people that really want that thing, to invest in it over the long run, not just invest heavily for a short amount of time. If you want a more specific answer to the “but why does it have to be this way?”, only Anet can answer that.

If you enjoy the raids, there is nothing that is preventing you from spending all day everyday in there, you just won’t get additional LI from it. If you are only doing it for the legendary armor, and not because you enjoy it, it would stand to reason why you dislike this particular time gate.

IMO, this game isn’t about the end-reward, it’s about the journey. If you aren’t enjoying the journey, STOP! Forcing yourself to do something you dislike for a reward you don’t need, is beyond silly.

TL:DR – Do you what you enjoy doing, and the rewards will come to you.

Considering that Legendary items are intended to be long term goals, I don’t see the “issue”. You asked who would go through with crafting it from “0”, and everyone that currently has a set started at “0”. Most of those having to wait a year or more after completing everything, just to get the armor. It was made for those that raid actively/regularly, and for those that want a long term goal.

I started from “0” and would do it again. I am actually in the process of doing it again, I want a set for all of the main toons I raid with.

Also, what was needed for Legendary armor has been known for a long time, you could have easily had your LI by now and Provisioner tokens (arguably worse than the LI timegate).

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

DakotaCoty.5721:

Hey there, not sure if you’re new to GW2 but want to give a little clarity on that…

World Transfers are only used to swap your WvW worlds; you can play all and any other content with your friends (providing your worlds are on the same region.).

Furthermore, I believe transfers were tiered as a prevention to people mass-swapping wvw servers and collapsing / overflowing them.

I hope this info helps.

they should just drop WvWvW swap. Basically, you can change your game world, but it will not go into effect until the week is out. That should take care of people trying to be on the winning side! You should exit with the world you entered with, it’s only fair.

Then they can lower the price, if that is the reason.

Because right now, WvW is the only place that your world matters. For PvP and PvE, it’s only your region (NA or EU) that matters, as the world is a mega server. With this in mind, there is no reason to change the price of the server transfers, as they only affect WvW.

From the Expansion page:

“Scourges channel their life force into the desert sands to summon biddable shades that damage enemies and create shields for their allies. They use punishment skills to torment their enemies, and they wield torches to light the path to their destruction.”

Makes me think Ritualist(ic).

There was only one WvW tournament that awarded tickets, and iirc, you could only earn as much as 800, if your world placed first each week of the tournament.

Another note, it isn’t unfair. It was a tournament, if you didn’t participate, you don’t get rewards. There is no requirement that there should be another tournament. Even if there was another tournament, those veterans would still have just as much of a token lead over you.

runeblade.7514:

Draco.9480:

maybe learn how the game works?

I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.

Great news! There are tons of videos and guides out there that will teach you how the bosses work. You can then take that knowledge and start with training groups, and build from there. Just having the knowledge beforehand, of what to expect, gives you a leg up on others.

runeblade.7514:

Sly.9518:

Why? What would the point be when Raids aren’t that hard to do currently? Or this about wanting rewards of Raids without putting in the time and effort? What would easy mode provide the game that doesn’t already exist? And you have to remember Raids were and are designed for a specific target audience who asked for Anet to provide them with content tailored to their needs of challenging group content that takes coordination.

I would like to be able to join raids and put time and effort to learn without being kicked for being too inexperienced.

Then I have great news for you! You can join raids and put in time and effort to learn without being kicked for being too inexperienced! Sounds too good to be true doesn’t it? Well, I assure you that it isn’t. It’s really simple.

All you have to do is either join inexperienced groups, join a guild that offers training runs and helps players that are new to raids, or make 9 friends and learn the raids with them.

There are whole communities in the raid world that are dedicated to bringing in new players and teaching them the ropes. You just need to find one and join up with them.

Joining an experienced group as someone who is inexperienced (esp when it isn’t a training run) is poor etiquette on your part. Expecting to join an experienced group to take someone who is inexperienced and a complete random is completely unrealistic.

zealex.9410:

They don’t when its more gold per hour to simply run fractal 40. Idk i buffles me why would we go from 6+ hours of doing fractals and dungeons in the past to just under an hour or even 30’.

I think perhaps that they don’t want a majority of the playerbase spending the majority of their time in instanced content.

I think that they want to make sure that the majority stays in open world.

Amaimon.7823:

I always wonder how people get to cap,
I have been playing rather actively since beta, and salvage like .. 97.8% of all I find (random number, I only sell rares over 60s and exotics over 1.33g) and I’m below 200%

I’m not to cap yet, like 250%ish, but I have salvaged no small quantity of ectos for dust over time. Ectos give a lot of luck and dust.

I’m sure that plenty of others have been salvaging ectos for that luck (and dust).

The portal is below Zealot’s overlook Waypoint. It is next to Depths of the Maw Waypoint.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone_Fen

You definitely need the greatsword, but I don’t know that it would account for a 20k dps difference that you are seeing. I don’t know the math behind the current build, but I would be curious as to what you see as “95% matches that”. The wrong 5% would have it’s own effect on your dps. For example, if you are using Superior Rune of Thorns, you would not be benefiting from the 6th bonus in the training arena (the stacking condi damage buff), so that would lower your dps on the golem, compared to something like Superior Rune of the Berserker.

The best thing I could advise would be to work on your rotation, make sure not to cancel casts and do whirl finishers inside the model of the golem. Beyond that, the only other advice I could really give would be to record yourself. It can make it much easier to catch where you messed up, and can help others point out mistakes, if you cared to share for feedback.

For condi necro. You should be getting above 30k on a golem with realistic buffs. My last benchmark as a condi necro, I was at 32k, without infusions.

Check out http://qtfy.eu/builds/ for the build and rotation.

With that said, condi necro dps is highly reliant on being able to hit chill fields. You will do significantly less dps if you are not doing your whirl finishers inside of ice fields, no extra dps if you do a whirl finisher in a static, water, or light field. Because of this, your dps in an actual raid environment will tank (not counting for mechanics that have to be dealt with as well).

That is the Bastian of the Penitent instance. At least where it lies on the map, when you load in, it will open the map for you.

Grimwolf.7163:

Zohane.7208:

Grimwolf.7163:

Is this allowed? This seems like it could easily be a large part of why so much stuff sells at garbage rates, and why undercutting is so aggressive.
Earlier I noticed someone selling the same item I was trying to sell with a large markdown compared to the previous seller. There were only a couple of them listed, and I didn’t want to lose a bunch of money because of this idiot, so I tried to just buy them out and relist them. But the second I bought them out, they were instantly replaced with the same cost and quantity. I tested this three times.
In the amount of time it took to finish saying that the item had been purchased, it was already back up.

So I looked into this, and yeah, trading post bots are easily available to anyone.
This seems really unhealthy for the market.

I bolded part of OP. It seems to indicate that there are in fact bots available to get. I do hope that OP sent links to said bots to Anet so they can try to block them.

Whether or not it’s these bots the OP has been hit by I can’t say of course…

Actually, I don’t think that’s possible. You can’t even report a player for using a bot without selecting the player directly.
Support doesn’t offer any options for reporting things like that.

I suppose you could always follow the advice from the wiki:
“If you find an exploit, please contact exploits@arena.net or report in-game.”

In this case, I would send an email to that address with links to the bot programs you found.

Grimwolf.7163:

Ayrilana.1396:

How do you know that they’re a bot?

Because the speed at which they were being relisted exceeds human ability. The item’s being relisted so quickly, it never actually even registers on screen as not being available.

This does not explain how you know that it is a bot. It explains how you feel it is a bot. Items being relisted quickly, is a side effect of having a game spanning TP, everyone has access to it, which means that items can be added before it has time to register.

Grimwolf.7163:

As for reporting it to support, I’ve literally never had anything done about such a report in all the years I’ve played.

You can’t know that for fact. Anet isn’t going to tell you that they did something about it, nor should they. Also, Anet isn’t going to do something, if there was no wrongdoing.

Blaeys.3102:

Just because there are multiple tiers doesn’t mean the raisin (? – just joking, I know what you meant) experience isnt still the hardest content in the game. If raids didnt exist, this honor would go to T4 fractals – despite the existence of T1s.

And raids are a further evolution, in the next step up kinda way. The intent is to go from t1 through t4 and then into raids. How is it OK to expect someone to go through t1-t3 fractals just to get to t4, but not ok to expect them to go through t4 fractals to get to raids?

Blaeys.3102:

And, yes, the original published goal of raids did not take what we are discussing into account. But, as player needs adapt with the game’s identity and offerings, so must the way Anet needs to develop content.

Or the company could expect the players to adapt to their vision of the game. Shocking, I know, but it isn’t new or unexpected. They want to develop their game, which, most likely, means that unless there is a real need to, they most likely aren’t going to do it, unless they can fit it in while still achieving their goals. You can’t tell someone what they need to do, without providing something besides your opinion (ie – you wouldn’t go into your bosses office telling him what you think he should do, and have nothing to support why you think he should. And if he didn’t agree with those reasons, you wouldn’t keep telling him that he needed to, at least not without providing more reasons. At least I hope you wouldn’t.)

Blaeys.3102:

And again, I am not convinced this would take any more effort than the challenge motes from the last wing needed.

So, you are ok with 9 month release cycles for new raids/wings? That seems counter-intuitive to the argument of someone who wants raids to have a larger place in the game.

Sly.9518:

Again Target audience were hardcore players Anet exceeded their expected audience goals for the players that actually wanted the content, you just want the content hijacked for players other than the target audience which will delay Raid releases.

Tbh, I don’t believe that their target audience were hardcore players, if so they missed that mark by a mile. Rather, I believe that their target audience was those that wanted more challenging content, which would have included the hardcore group. Giving them a larger target audience.

Continuing with the honesty trend, Raids, in their current form, aren’t really challenging for the hardcore, it gives them something to do that requires paying attention to the game.

Raids are only really challenging when looked at in the context of the rest of the game. That I think is what they were going for with Raids, and they have achieved that mark. Based off of their reports, raids are doing way better than they expected.

Blaeys.3102:

I still say that multiple levels would make it easier for the developers to accomplish this – freeing them up from any concerns of accessibility, while – for many – addressing the issue of accessibility and profession diversity in raiding at the same time.

Do you have anything to support why you feel that they have concerns of accessibility? I haven’t seen anything to indicate that they are concerned about the current accessibility. I have seen one post about them exploring accessibility, but I got the feeling that was more about making sure that the story was accessible, not the gameplay portion.

Blaeys.3102:

This has never been a treatise on the removal of challenging content – or even for watering it down in any way. Raids should be the hardest content in the game – but that doesn’t mean they cannot be adapted to offer secondary experiences for those looking for such a thing.

It also doesn’t mean that they should be adapted. Just because something could be, doesn’t mean it should be.

Blaeys.3102:

There is a need (yes I said it – but it’s still opinion – PLEASE dont make me have to explain word definitions again) for greater accessibility in the game mode. I know everyone doesn’t see it (we are all directed by our own in game experiences and environments), but it is there.

But it isn’t a need. A need implies that something will happen if it is not met. For example, if you don’t eat, drink, or sleep, you will die. Greater accessibility in raids are needed or…. what exactly? If nothing is going to happen if it doesn’t happen, it is no longer a need. Desire =/= need.

Blaeys.3102:

Again, it is not about absolutes. Can every profession beat every boss? Definitely. It’s been proven.

But the experience of playing some professions is much less frustrating than others. MUCH MUCH less frustrating – yes, partly because of player biases, but biases based on the extreme mathematical differences between those builds and professions.

And that disparity is the issue. Players shouldnt be punished (in terms of accessibility, at least) for enjoying one playstyle over another.

No one is actively punishing those people. They are playing the victim because they either don’t want to adapt their comp to the encounter or don’t want to master the encounter, neither of these (combined or separate) are reason enough to provide a “story mode”. I get that you don’t think it should, but I think it shouldn’t, esp something billed as “Challenging Group Content”. Raids weren’t called Challenging Group Content, Challenging Group Content was called Raids.

Blaeys.3102:

As to developer resources, I still contend that argument was invalidated by the use of challenge motes on every boss in the last wing. Instead of using challenge motes (which were almost universally disliked by hard core raiders), use story motes instead – designed to provide the tiered experience without the need for multiple instances. It solves the accessibility issue without detracting from the hardcore experience in any way whatsoever.

The challenge motes were disliked because they didn’t have increased rewards attached to them. Attach increased rewards, and boom, they are liked (see 100 CM for how it should be done).

As to the comment about developer resources, of course it would take more resources, to think otherwise is fooling yourself. Yes, Challenge Motes were added, but you don’t know how much of the 9 month cycle it took from Stronghold of the Faithful until Bastion of the Penitent came out, that they took.

The one thing that we should be able to agree on, is that if Challenge Motes had not been done, the wing could have come out sooner. So, if you aren’t adding more dev resources, then it would stand to reason that we would see a new Raid/wing every ~9 months. And if Raids are released every ~9 months, that doesn’t seem like it’s a major feature of the game, and if not a major feature, why spend any more resources on it than what you are, especially when it is doing as well as it has been.

Developing one challenge level is much easier than multiple levels, esp since you only have to balance around that one difficulty level and call it a day. Is it lazy development? Possibly, depends on perspective. But if I can spend a few resources here and get great returns (like raids are doing), why should I feel needed to spend more resources for marginal increases on the return, esp on something that isn’t a core feature of my product?

Blaeys.3102:

Of course it was my opinion. Get it into your head that the point of the forums is for us all (you, me – all of us) to express opinions. Stop attacking the poster and trying to make it sound nefarious when someone is simply expressing an opinion – and start discussing the topic itself. This constant diversionary tactic of attacking the person rather than trying to have a civil discussion is getting old and adds absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Of course the game isnt going to die and it won’t cause people to mass exodus from the game. Trying to make it sound like I said that is another typical diversionary tactic -
trying to make it seem the discussion is between two extreme sides (making it easier to provide direct counterpoints).

Except that you said needs, which implies that without it, it can’t exist or continue to function. If it is a need, please prove it. Provide actual facts and evidence that it is needed, otherwise, you can’t claim that it is a need.

Blaeys.3102:

The reality is, this isnt a black and white topic with extreme sides, even though some people have some pretty extremist attitudes about it.

My goal is greater interest in raids – more accessibility and a deeper experience that adds to how people enjoy the game – without compromising the challenge top end raids provide.

Except, it is pretty black and white, those that want more modes added, and those that don’t.

My goal is less design interest in raids. The main design goal, of this games PVE, is LW and now expansion content, not Raids or fractals. I also do not want resources pulled from other areas of the game to provide further support for raids.

Blaeys.3102:

I see an issue with profession/build/playstyle variety as it pertains to raids. I also see what I believe to be a solution for that issue.

Just because you see it as an issue, does not in fact make it an issue. You have to first prove that it is an issue and why it needs to change. You can’t just assume that there is an issue and expect other people to agree with you on it, you have to convince them that there is. There is no point in discussing multi-tiered raiding with a community and company that doesn’t want it.

Is it an issue for some people, of course it is, that was intended. It really can’t be an issue with profession/build/playstyle variety, if it’s goal was to be exclusive. Now if you don’t think the goal should be to be exclusive, please show us why it should be changed.

Blaeys.3102:

Telling me that is just my opinion is not a valid counterargument. It’s an evasion of the argument, plain and simple. Of course it is just my opinion – just as your opinion is just your opinion. (for the umpteenth time, were here to discuss our opinions).

Except when you’re entire argument boils down to “this needs to happen” based off of your opinion, and you can’t provide any facts or evidence to support your claim, then yes, discarding your opinion is the only valid counterargument, esp when your opinions can/have been proven wrong.

Again, this road has been traveled down many times. You state your opinion and why you think it should happen, but never establish why it should, other than “needs”, which without supporting evidence, is not enough.

So are you here to just keep restating your opinion or have a discussion? Because having a discussion involves actual progress on the topic at hand, and opinions will not lead to progress. Esp when you disregard or don’t agree with other people’s supporting evidence of their opinions, without any of your own.

Blaeys.3102:

The point is, the current raid environment is not limiting because of the difficulty of the fights (they really aren’t that hard, tbh). It is limiting because of the disparity and huge differences between the different builds/professions/playstyles – and that is just BAD design.

There is difference between builds and playstyles, but having a disparity is not a reason to provide easier access to raids, especially if it was never intended. Also, “BAD design” is your opinion, and it doesn’t lend any weight to your argument.

Blaeys.3102:

The only way you are going to provide a comparable level of accessibility for (using the current game dynamic as an example) power based scrapper or revenant when compared to, say, a tempest, is to provide a tiered raid model. It may not be the perfect solution – it may not have been what the developers envisioned for raids – but it is very much needed at this point.

How is tiered modes needed at this point and why should they increase the accessibility? You haven’t given anything to support that it is needed, other than that people want it. Wants are not needs. Is the game going to die? Is mass quantities of people going to leave the game, if they can’t play raids? My guess is going to be “No” to both of those questions. And if the answer is “No”, how can you profess that there is a “need”?

Ropechef.6192:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Legendary armor should be exactly like legendary weapons: accessible to everyone with the time or the gold to make/buy them. It makes no logical sense otherwise.

but you can do exactly that .
dont have the desire or ability to do the raids? you can certainly pay someone else to do it for you.

just like you may or may not have the time or desire to do (insert legendary here) i can certainly pay someone else to do it for me via the Black lion Trading post.

You can’t exactly “pay” someone to complete the second collection for you. It requires that you be alive at the end of the fight, and have completed a specific task for that fight. I suppose you couple pay for the fights, and hope that over time you are able to complete the achievements.

Blaeys.3102:

I understand the whole “dont talk too much about what were doing” concept, but I think, after almost four years (2 weeks from today will mark 4 years since the last new guild mission was added), it isn’t irrational to expect them to at least let us know if they still see missions as a part of the game at all anymore.

I don’t believe it is irrational for players to want Anet to let them know something. Anet also doesn’t have to do anything more than they already have. People aren’t going to like it, but that wasn’t the point. At the same time, those players, have to be able to start drawing conclusions based on information to be had at that time, and based on the last thing mentioned, they either don’t have time or have a priority on it. I have faith that if that changes, they will let us know. If they didn’t, and that was a feature set I was really sold on, I would be looking for another game at this point.

Astralporing.1957:

Fatalyz.7168:

Raids were never supposed to be really challenging for the hardcore or accessible to the less than serious players. It is challenging content for casual players.

It wasn’t casual players that asked for challenging content – it was the hardcore crowd. And it’s the hardcore crowd that the raids were meant for, according to dev statements.

So, if they ended up challenging for the casuals, as you claim (which by the way i agree with, that’s what they are), then they significantly missed their design goal.

Actually, I’m pretty sure it was the crowd that they intended explorable mode dungeons for. And as far as I remember dev statements were that Raids were for those who wanted more challenging content in the game, specifically challenging group content. I would be intrigued if you had a quote specifically stating that they wanted raids for the “hardcore” crowd.

Yes, raids are challenging for casuals, imo. But I’m not sure how they significantly missed their design goal. To me, casual does not mean “bad”. Casual to me, is someone that plays casually with their time. Even then, just playing casually over time, you will, hopefully, get better at playing the game and at playing your class. Raids are supposed to be part of that horizontal progress, imo. Where the horizontal progression is your character not gaining any new abilities, but your skill as a player increasing.

Astralporing.1957:

Fatalyz.7168:

I’m not sure what you mean by “something less than it should be”.

As long as they’ll keep to the current form, they will never be able to become what they were meant to be – challenging for hardcores that asked for them. There may be some single bosses on that level, but only inbetween bosses that are killed within hours of release, and boss events like escort and Trio. They will never be really hard enough to truly satisfy the hardcore crowd, but they also will remain too hard to be liked by the casual players.

Who do you refer to as casual players? I consider myself a casual player. My online average has been ~4hrs per day, since headstart. There have been some breaks in that time, also time I’ve been unemployed (for longer and more times than I’d care to admit outloud), and then here lately, where I log in, but I’m running around making dinner, making sure my gf’s kid is doing her homework, etc. But I also don’t find Raids too difficult, probably because I never pugged. I also didn’t join a group that was already clearing without me. I joined a progression group, within the guild I’m in now, and we worked through all of the bosses. A couple of hours, twice a week. Took a few months before we were full clearing consistently. With that, I don’t really think raids were intended to be pugged, at least not efficiently or easily.

Astralporing.1957:

And most likely with time (and the more hardcore players’ count diminishing) the new encounters will keep becoming easier and easier on average (you could see the beginning of that in wing 4).

While true, the hardcore count will diminish, because I don’t think raids were truly designed with what they wanted in mind, but I honestly think it is expected. I’d like to think wing 4 seemed easier, because most of us already had experienced raiding, and experience working as a group.

Blaeys.3102:

TexZero.7910:

So how much longer are you willing to delay content in GW2 just so you can have your story when it’s readily available to you online as is ?

Once again, I think that the idea of motes invalidates the delay argument. I really do not see how developing story motes would be any more time or resource intensive than was put into the challenge motes used in BoTP.

Ok, let’s look at it like this:

BotP took 9 months from Stronghold of the Faithful, to be released. With that we got 4 normal mode bosses and 4 challenge motes. Logic dictates that had they not spent those resources on those challenge motes, they would have been able to deliver the new raid sooner. If they were to keep developing motes, you either keep your release cycle at 9+ months (I do not think that would be acceptable) or you hire more resources to keep up the cadence (not a good idea, when so many other areas of the game are in need of attention Guild Missions, WvW, etc, and could use those new resources much more.

The other thing to keep in mind, the devs want raids to be a small part of the game, and they want their game mode to be exclusionary. The only real reason to change it would be because it detracts from the final product that they want to deliver.

Will raids in their current implementation push players away? Absolutely, this was intended (not that they want people to quit the game, but that there is an acceptable amount to be expected and only Anet knows what that is).

I just don’t see changing raids to support multi-mode, attracting more players, than what it will push away. And so far there has been nothing presented that disproves that.

Blaeys.3102:

I think most agree that these treadmills do not – and NEVER SHOULD – exist in GW2. That means that gradually increasing accessibility doesn’t exist here in any real form. As a result, raids are being designed with a broader swath of players in mind from day one. That means two things – one, they will always be watered down more than they should be for hardcore players and two, they will always feel inaccessible to less serious players.

The result of that is what we have now – raids that arent really challenging at all for one group but still feel overly inaccessible to those whose playstyles dont fit a specific mold. In trying to force fit a single difficulty into them, they will end up with something less than it should be.

Raids were never supposed to be really challenging for the hardcore or accessible to the less than serious players. It is challenging content for casual players.

So would you say that by forcing to stay a single difficulty, that it will never become a primary form of story-telling and end game for this game? I’m not sure what you mean by “something less than it should be”. Because raids are challenging content, which is what they are supposed to be. Not sure how they are less than that because they only offer a single mode.

Ohoni.6057:

Again, though, there is NO benefit to ANYONE for any player to be playing a part of the game that he is not enjoying.

Those that do not enjoy a specific part of the game, are not expected to play that specific part of the game. By extension, those rewards: weapon and armor skins, titles, and mini’s, are not intended for those players, but they are there to help entice them to try it. If they continue to do something that they don’t enjoy, that is on them, and their own choice. This is the current reward structure that we have in game.

There is expected to be a portion of the player base that dislikes this reward structure, but there is nothing to suggest that it detracts from the enjoyment of the majority of the player base. Nor is there anything to suggest that a change in the reward structure, in removing weapon and armor skins (not just limited to Legendary armor), would have a net gain positive with the player base, over the current reward structure.

Ohoni.6057:

Any system should be designed to respect player preferences, and while it might offer an incentive to play one mode over another "as in the goal is easier there), it should never hard wall off anything into one mode or another, because then you’d have players either engaging in content that they are not enjoying, or missing out on rewards that they really wanted, either of which would be an avoidable negative gameplay experience.

And this system is designed to respect the player preferences of those that want unique skins for their game mode. It wasn’t expected to respect the preference of those that don’t want it that way. Neither system is right or wrong, both work and they both appeal to very different crowds.

Anet can’t support both those that want unique skins locked behind content and those who don’t, so they have chosen to support those that do want that content. Why did they choose to support this particular model? Probably because that is what they want to support and probably because they feel that is what the majority of their customer’s want. So long as the game continues to do well and sell well, and people aren’t leaving the game over being unable to obtain skins in the method of their choosing, Anet really isn’t going to feel a need to change it. Rather instead, it looks like more people enjoy having skins available as unique rewards for specific content, that are not available anywhere in the game.

Is there a reason it has to be a static choice? I think a slider would be the best over all choice, for something like this.

Is there a technical difficulty that would prevent having a slider that allows you to adjust the distance of the back piece from your character model?

I don’t suggest this just for this armor/backpiece, but as a general QoL feature for the game. This, I believe would be the best way to ensure the majority of people are satisfied.

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

But surely if your idea were so righteous and so much better for the game, even that percentage would have overwhelmingly support your idea.

Saying this betrays that you have absolutely no idea how a poll works or why a scientifically administered poll has any actual value.

Or because I want you to prove yourself. I also did not just narrow it down to a poll. I specifically said “vote/poll/etc”. So that you would have some way to show support for an idea you think is better for the game. But you know, attack me instead of taking the idea and finding a way for you to champion your idea and show actual support for it, besides arguing on a forum.

It’s convenient of you that you can claim that you see a better way for the game for everyone that plays this game, but unwillingly to gather any data that the community agrees with you.

Your stance essentially boils down to, “I’m morally right in this, it doesn’t matter what the majority of the community wants in this, but I can’t or won’t prove what the majority of the community wants, you just have to take my word for it, and if you don’t, you are an evil person that has ill will towards other, and take pleasure in their misery.”

This is no longer worthy of discussion with you.

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

If you really think that your idea is so much better for the game. Please go create a survey/poll/etc asking if skins should be locked behind specific content, post it to Reddit, and let the community show Anet what they want. If it is better for the game, I’m sure the community will come together behind you, and you can really show Anet how the community feels.

In case you’re unaware, polling for opt-in online communities are rarely representative of the views of the in-game population. LotRO, for example, once noted that the majority of their forums population seemed heavily invested in raiding, while only less than 15% of actual players spent any time in them.

But surely if your idea were so righteous and so much better for the game, even that percentage would have overwhelmingly support your idea.

Ohoni.6057:

That is your opinion of malicious. Let me provide you the definition:

Malicious: characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.
Malice: the intention or desire to do evil; ill will.

People that take pleasure in being able to accomplish something that others are not, are not evil, have an intention or desire to do evil or ill will towards those that can’t, nor are they intending to do harm to them.

That’s a rather fanciful take on it. I believe that taking pleasure in other people’s failings IS evil, IS ill will towards those people, and deliberately acting to prevent them from having an easier time of it IS evil, IS ill will towards them. You don’t, apparently.

I do not take any pleasure in other people’s failings, and striving to maintain a standard, is not any of the above either. Taking a moral stance on whether skins should a reward behind specific content, is really not even worthy of discussion, and has no bearing on any conversation of worth.

If you really think that your idea is so much better for the game. Please go create a survey/poll/etc asking if skins should be locked behind specific content, post it to Reddit, and let the community show Anet what they want. If it is better for the game, I’m sure the community will come together behind you, and you can really show Anet how the community feels.

Expac 2 will most definitely be make or break for some people.

I do not, however, feel that it will break the game.

Ohoni.6057:

It is better for everyone who wants the skin to have it than for only those who like to raid to have it.

This is your opinion that it would be better for everyone. I strongly disagree. It is better for everyone who wants skins as rewards for specific content.

Ohoni.6057:

You are assuming that he is taking pleasure from the misery of others.

That’s not an assumption, it is a statement of fact.

Really? Show me where he said, “I enjoy taking pleasure in the misery of others.”

Ohoni.6057:

There is pleasure in being able to achieve something that others are not, but that does not mean that it is malicious.

Not true. Taking pleasure in being able to do something that others cannot is inherently taking pleasure that others cannot do something, which is malicious. Now what is not malicious is in taking pleasure in your own accomplishments regardless of how many other people can do it, and without needing outside validation that they see your accomplishments.

That is your opinion of malicious. Let me provide you the definition:

Malicious: characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.
Malice: the intention or desire to do evil; ill will.

People that take pleasure in being able to accomplish something that others are not, are not evil, have an intention or desire to do evil or ill will towards those that can’t, nor are they intending to do harm to them.

What they are doing is being competitive, this is human nature and not inherently evil. You may disagree with that, but that is your opinion.

I’m curious. What are you going to do when the next expansion comes out and it has even more skins locked behind specific content? Specifically skins that you want behind content you don’t enjoy doing.

Based on the comment that you mentioned, I got the feeling that there wasn’t ongoing development for Guild missions.

It could be something that comes with the expansion, I hope, but that will be a wait and see scenario.

If it doesn’t come with expansion, my thought would be that there will not be on-going development until they say otherwise.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

No one is talking about dumbing down anything. People are proposing the creation of an alternative way to experience the content – one that not only wouldn’t affect the harder mode, but would give the developers free licence to make the actual challenging raids even more challenging.

And, again, I think that could be accomplished with little impact on developmental resources by transitioning from challenge to story motes (and then making the main experience the considerably harder one).

And they could have used those challenge mote resources, to provide better polished encounters. Better polished encounters is better for the game mode as a singular challenge level.

Except, as long as they have to be worried about balancing encounters to account for a greater range of skill levels in a single mode (which was obviously their intent in wing 4), the same issue exists as in your example.

I don’t think that they are worried about catering to a wide skill level. I think that they are trying to provide a set experience, for each boss. Yes that means that some will be easier than others, while others are more difficult, I don’t see a problem with this.

Blaeys.3102:

Using those resources on story motes (or a straight up story mode) gives them greater leeway in providing challenging content throughout a raid – meaning greater purity of purpose and a true challenging and polished raiding experience for those wanting it. Imo, they cannot provide a proper raid with the model they have now – and their answer in wing 4 (challenge motes) didn’t really work.

Why not use those resources on something people are actually asking for?

I’m not sure what you mean by “greater purity of purpose”. Raids already are the most challenging content in the game. The only reason that challenge motes didn’t work, imo, is because there is no repeatable reward for completing them (ie – Nightmare CM has increased repeatable rewards), it’s the exact same reward as for completing the normal challenge. If anything, had they done that, they would have been a success.

For the last question – because this isn’t and should not become a raid-centric game, or a game that focuses it’s primary story telling through raids.

Edit: For the last question, a more realistic answer – Because the devs do not want to support it (this is my opinion, based on their stance thus far and their response that raids should remain the most difficult content in the game). Sometimes as a developer you have to decide what you want to support, and run with it.

Astralporing.1957:

DutchRiders.2871:

I take great pleasure in the fact that most players can’t get legendary armor.

Taking pleasure from the misery of others is not a good trait in my eyes, and is definitely the behaviour this game shouldn’t promote, as it is something that can only poison game community.

You are assuming that he is taking pleasure from the misery of others.

Why can’t his pleasure be that it is because it is an exclusive reward for a game mode that is the most challenging group content in the game, and that most people are either unwilling or unable to complete the content? There is pleasure in being able to achieve something that others are not, but that does not mean that it is malicious.

Ohoni.6057:

apharma.3741:

The armour skin is nothing but a prestige item, it is no different to a title,

That may be your opinion, but I clearly do not share it. The skins have value in their appearance alone, they have that value whether only one person has it or everyone has it. That is the difference between armors and titles. If you believe that armor skins are worth nothing more than prestige, that’s fine, so long as you don’t try to use that as justification for making it harder for me to get access to the skins I want.

That’s not just his opinion, it’s one Anet shares as well (specifically that armor and weapon skins are prestige items in this game).

If you believe that armor skins and weapon skins are not prestige items, that is fine, but don’t use it as justification to make it easier to get skins that you want (that argument works both ways).

Ohoni.6057:

Except you do want to devalue peoples efforts, you essentially want to remove the hard work others put into it trying a new game mode, learning new techniques and classes to benefit a group of 10 people working together.

No, nothing can take any of that away from them. The value of their efforts is that they have improved, and are better today than they were when they started. That remains true regardless of what happens with Legendary armor. Any value they derrived from having exclusive access to Legendary armor skins, that is value they were never entitled to in the first place.

And any value that you have from having what ever skin you want in the game, is not something that you were ever entitled to.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s what I’m looking for, scenarios that are PURE upside for all involved, in which players can earn all the rewards that interest them, while spending minimal if any time dealing with aspects of the game that they know full well they will never enjoy.

Where is the upside for people who want skins as rewards for completing specific content? And how does what you want, outweigh what they want?

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

Proof that it is a better way? It’s a different way, sure, but it’s not inherently better.

You also don’t know if more people will be happy. You know that it will make you happy and some other people.

I don’t have the data to know with absolute certainty, but I believe it’s the most likely outcome, since it would mean that every player in the game would have more opportunity to get whichever rewards interest them, and have less reason to play game modes that they know they do not enjoy, and I can’t imagine that not leading to higher overall happiness. It’s like asking “do you think most people would prefer to make more money doing their favorite career?” I really doubt that anyone would argue against that.

Except that you tell the people that want skins as rewards for completing specific content, that what they want doesn’t matter, because it doesn’t make you happy.

The question is actually, “Do you prefer skins as a reward for completing specific content or something else?” Where I believe you will find more people in favor of having skins as rewards available for specific content, than those who don’t. Heck, just look through this thread, you don’t even have majority support in this thread for making skins available through other modes. Instead, even those arguing or the armor to be available elsewhere, don’t care for the skin or don’t want to take the skin away from raiders.

Blaeys.3102:

No one is talking about dumbing down anything. People are proposing the creation of an alternative way to experience the content – one that not only wouldn’t affect the harder mode, but would give the developers free licence to make the actual challenging raids even more challenging.

And, again, I think that could be accomplished with little impact on developmental resources by transitioning from challenge to story motes (and then making the main experience the considerably harder one).

And they could have used those challenge mote resources, to provide better polished encounters. Better polished encounters is better for the game mode as a singular challenge level.

apharma.3741:

Fatalyz.7168:

I think something we can both agree on…. If there was going to be a raid legendary armor set, there should have been at least one more obtainable via other content in the game (WvW being a good candidate, but there could be others).

While I do support the idea I also recognise how difficult it can be to ensure the same effort is required by the average player to obtain it, especially in WvW.

If you tie it to server wins it can take anything from a few months to years to get as well as promoting the bandwagon mentality which is already a huge issue for server linking.

Tie it to achievements like cap X amount of objectives and it promotes karma training and in no way comes close to having to learn raid mechanics.

Tie it to kills and you screw over small groups and roamers as well as promoting people to blob up and again karma train.

The nearest imo you could get is tie it to WvW rank but XP boosters now affect it and karma training is one of the most effective ways to rank up. Additionally there’s a large amount of the playerbase that would be kittened off at having to earn another arbitrary number of ranks when they’re on 3k+.

That’s without mentioning if anyone found a loophole like with the ultimate dominater farm in OS.

Like I say I like the idea and would love to see it but I can’t see a way without kittening off a ton of players or making it adversely affect the game mode by promoting either karma training, blobbing or server stacking.

I don’t know how it would work, WvW and it’s rewards are a mess. I was honestly trying to throw WvW a bone (they need something ).

In principle, my point was just that they should have another set available via other means.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Fatalyz.7168:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

There’s a difference between just skins, and a whole category of gear. Nevertheless, there have been complains about it. I assume that they’re not that big simply because most people seem to consider golden fractal skins to be exceptionally ugly.

To be fair, if you go by the forums and reddit, most seem to think that the medium and light armors are……are…..are……. Well not up to par, to be polite about it.

what he/she/it said ^

And, as i said, i guess the majority of complains will disappear as soon as Anet introduces a second, non-raid set of legendary armor.
Which, at this moment, is, unfortunately, never.

I think something we can both agree on…. If there was going to be a raid legendary armor set, there should have been at least one more obtainable via other content in the game (WvW being a good candidate, but there could be others).

Astralporing.1957:

Fatalyz.7168:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

There’s a difference between just skins, and a whole category of gear. Nevertheless, there have been complains about it. I assume that they’re not that big simply because most people seem to consider golden fractal skins to be exceptionally ugly.

To be fair, if you go by the forums and reddit, most seem to think that the medium and light armors are……are…..are……. Well not up to par, to be polite about it.

And i guess a lot of people would have been easily satisfied with a second, different set of legendary armor. Unfortunately, (as i suspected earlier) we now know that Anet’s not planning releasing any. So, this set is the only choice for legendary armor. Thus, i’ll be asking for alternate acquisition methods till i’m heard, first 4 wings of raids get nerfed (either directly, or indirectly due to power creep), or i’ll stop playing.

(and by the way, while i do agree – a lot – about the common opinion about the medium set, i do like heavy, and i think that light, or at least some parts of it, can have its uses)

I am pretty sure that people’s voices have been heard, they just may not acknowledge it. That sometimes happens when you do not wish to support a request. You keep pushing what you do want to support, and hopefully bring on people for what you want to support, before those you no longer wish to support, leave.

For what it’s worth, I do hope that they state what their intention is. At least it will give people closure, if what they want isn’t coming, but I don’t personally know of many businesses that will do that.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

There’s a difference between just skins, and a whole category of gear. Nevertheless, there have been complains about it. I assume that they’re not that big simply because most people seem to consider golden fractal skins to be exceptionally ugly.

To be fair, if you go by the forums and reddit, most seem to think that the medium and light armors are……are…..are……. Well not up to par, to be polite about it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Fatalyz.7168:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

Because it is only a skin?

And legendary is a rather more expensive skin that just has the ability to stat swap so? And i was refering to ohoni which said skins shouldnt be part of prestigious rewards yet no one complained about these ones.

My apology if this was aimed at a specific poster. I didn’t saw quotes or references to anyone, so I assume (wrongly) that it was a general comment.

For someone who has many sets of armor in his inventory, that tier of armor is a pretty big deal regarding quality of life. The rune swapping only add more to it compared to the weapons.

Something that I have come to the realization of since acquiring my first couple of pieces, if you swap stats a lot, it’s not really as convenient. It actually becomes more time consuming to swap stats, runes, and infusions (if you have them), than it is to just swap sets.

Of course, build templates would help with that…. but it’s blasphemy around here to speak of

I agree with the templates. I’m wondering why it is so hard to get since there are a lot less possible combinations in GW2 than in GW.

As for the armor, you also have to factor in that you free 6 inventory slots per set you used to have. That alone is quite interresting.

cough cough expansion selling point cough cough

I hope it will be announced as a selling point (as it already?).

Nope.