Guild Wars 2

Jski.6180:

Crinn.7864:

I don’t understand why people are saying Legendary armor is a “raid only” thing.

If you look at the actual requirements you need to do Fractals, 500 level crafting, and HoT meta events. The legendary insights are honestly the easiest things to acquire.

Its not just that the point is that they are adding a lot of things and changeling gw2 because of raids. The legendary armor is just added to it.

Look at it this way GW2 is know for its light play non gear treadmill and if you wanted something more hardcore it was for skins only. To ask for a major shift from this light play to what is seen in raids is a big jump and one that gw2 was not made for. That and its showing that the devs are putting a lot of there time into raids to the point of foolishness. As in raids are a very small part of gw2 and a very small population over all. Yet the game is being made to be a raid game.

This is doom to fail the devs are putting all there eggs into one thing raids and if raids do not keep the population going till the next expansion your not going to see gw2 saved by it. You cant do this and is gross negligence on the side of the game detector for the game and its share holders.

If you want to raid that ok if you want legendary skins from raids too that ok but to only make the game into a raid game is not ok and that is the current tread. Gw2 is more then just raids and its silly to try to shove this game into a stander mmorpg raiding system.

Prove that the devs are putting all of their eggs into one basket. Something besides anecdotal evidence (something I know you can’t provide).

If the devs were trying to make this a raid game, raids would certainly be a lot more accessible than they currently are, and you wouldn’t see the posts about making them more accessible. To me that means that they are not making this a raid game and only providing it as niche content.

Also, prove that raids bringing changes to other parts of the game is a bad thing. I can provide plenty of proof that raids have caused changes to other areas of the game, and those areas are now objectively better. (example, Nightmare fractal creation got a lot of inspiration from the raid team and being able to make it’s own mechanics).

Something else that you are mistaken in, there is still no gear treadmill in gw2, not since the addition of ascended (legendary is no better stats-wise), and that difficult content was always supposed to be in the game (looking at you explorable mode dungeons), Anet just failed to deliver on it.

Yes, the raid team has put a lot of effort into it, and it shows wonderfully. It’s a credit that a team so small is able to produce such high quality content. I would also go so far as to argue that LS3 has been a huge improvement over previous seasons, and there has been more from LS, fractals, and sPvP than there ever was for raids.

Astralporing.1957:

Fatalyz.7168:

Ardid.7203:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Making heavy ASAP simply due to the fact that what I personally find valuable is exclusivity. Only other legendary I own is the pvp backpiece.

Exclusivity is the only reasonable explanation for Raids. It’s also the saddest.

I’m curious, what reasonable explanation are you referring to and how is exclusivity a sad thing?

Getting enjoyment from the misfortune of others is a sad thing.

Getting enjoyment from the misfortune of others is a sad thing, but has nothing to do with exclusivity. Especially when this exclusivity is entirely optional and gated only by willingness.

Scipio.3204:

Harper.4173:

If you have someone that can’t raid ( because of low skill) – if they’re hardcore enough about the game they can get the armor – they can buy the runs with gold.

Just a question. If it weren’t possible to buy raid runs, your argument would be that one could hire someone to play on his/her account and earn the Legendary Armor that way, therefore they would be accessible?

Harper.4173:

The difference between casual and hardcore is the time investment and how much the game means to them.

The casual is the one that can’t get the armor because:
1. He doesn’t play the game enough to earn the gold to buy his runs.
2. He doesn’t play the game enough to be good and gear up and find people to actually do raids.
3. The game doesn’t matter to him enough that he would spend that much money getting gems to buy gold and buy his way to legendary armor.

Probably this is the mentality that made me think twice in the recent months whether raids are a good addition to GW2 after all. Downgrading everyone who doesn’t want to participate in a game mode that wasn’t part of the game for 3 years , doesn’t have 17.000g by now and can’t afford to spend thousand bucks on a armor set?

Superiority complex is becoming too much of a thing here

Who is being downgraded? Could you be more specific? If you are referring to stats, Legendary is no stronger than Ascended. This will have the utility of being able to change stats, runes, and infusions, without needing multiple sets of gear.

Rednik.3809:

That “social” raid model died like what, 10 years ago in other games?

Funny enough, it seems to work extremely well here. Maybe not for everyone, but then it wasn’t supposed to.

Rednik.3809:

Like new fractals were supposed to be in xpack too. And yet – 4 wings vs 2 fractals. They are all part of the same addon.

Where did they advertise new fractals shipping with HoT vs HoT shipping with a raid, that would be delayed for reasons?

Rednik.3809:

Learn something =/= learn boss encounter, just like watching a kung-fu movie wont make you a skilled fighter. You can learn some things, maybe more if video have your spec PoV and explanations, but that’s all. Without practice it’s not working.

And that knowledge gained from watching videos of raids, directly helps with training runs, and helping you get into a run to get the practice you need to get the kill. It all ties in together quite nicely.

Rednik.3809:

Training runs are still poor substitute for tiered difficulty.
1. They are “charity”, and because of that not systematical. You can found 10 W1 runs and zero W3 ones. Or 2 W3 and no W1. Or maybe VG for a whole week. It all depends only on good will of people who are making them and your blind luck to log in and catch one you need.

Make friends, invite said friends to do Raid, profit. Or post your own LFG, you’ll get people. It’s entirely dependent on the person who wants to get into raiding and how much effort they want to put in. They don’t want to put in the effort of making friends, posting their own groups, or joining groups, that’s on them, not Anet.

It’s also silly to think of training runs as “charity”, because they help grow the raiding community. Yes, there is good will in it, which makes the community worth being part of.

Rednik.3809:

2. They are still prone to wipes. Someone important died? You all will wipe. Few of less important people died? You will wipe most likely. And you just lost all opportunities to learn your role in encounter further and have to start over with everyone else, even if you executed your part perfectly.

I don’t see anything wrong here with this, seems to be working as intended. If you are joining a training pug, expecting to get a kill in a couple of attempts, you are setting yourself up for failure. Simply because you will have no idea of the skill level of the other parties involved This is why guild and static groups are the best places to look for those who want to get into raiding (it was never intended to be easy to pug so expecting it to be is silly).

Rednik.3809:

3. They are not helping with LI wall. Due to limited nature of training runs they are not producing a lot of experienced people, so initiative of keeping LI wall for experienced raiders remains. Actually, very existence of training runs means that system is not working as intended and new players cannot learn by themselves.

Actually training runs were created by the community to help with easing newer players into raids, and giving them a starting point, not an example of a system not working. New players can absolutely learn by themselves. 10 brand new players just hit 80 and decide to group up and start doing raids. They are learning by themselves, and created their own “training run” just by deciding that they wanted to attempt to raid. Whether they do this or not, is not the point, the fact remains that they can do this, and I’m sure that there are some that do. But really, why spend the time figuring out the mechanics, when they have already been figured out?

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

It should be hard to get but not though exclusive content so every one can get it over time.

I disagree. Exclusive content is exactly where it belongs. More exclusivity in skins that are obtained is better overall.

Jski.6180:

There have been lose of builds in wvw divisibility to do nerf and buffs of skill becuse of them working one way or another in raids. Ghost thf (all though i hate this build but it still should be a chose) was nerf because ppl could solo a raid boss not because it was annoying. Staff ele was nerf because its metor was doing too much dmg vs big mobs (all though there still WH with wild fire and lighting orb so i am not sure what going on there). These where updates that destroy builds because these effect push the classes over the top in raids and raids only.

Meteor Shower should have been nerfed long ago, not just because of raids. Yes, raids brought it’s issues more into the light, but it was already OP.

Do you have any proof that ghost thief was nerfed because of raids, or is that just your assumption?

Also, if Ghost thief was nerfed because it could solo bosses, why hasn’t Druid been nerfed yet, as it is able to solo Cairn. Mesmers can solo VG (I’m pretty sure can be done, just not how long it would take).

Jski.6180:

There is a gear wall as in you need the best gear to hit the max / min of dps armor and healing checks of a boss fight in raids. You could even say there build and class walls in raids due to having to over specialized in a roll to even beat bosses. That not what GW2 was made to be and its not good to try to make ppl play that way for things like legendary armor. Even legendary weapons where a mostly play the way you wanted to all be it took a long time to do it.

Two things here:
1) You do not need the best gear in order to clear raids, they have been done in blues and greens. They are also low-manned pretty regularly (I can verify this as I have regularly low-manned bosses, 5-man VG etc), as well as possible to go past the enrage timer without a wipe (my guild once went about 3-5 minutes past the timer on Matt, but still killed him with only one other death). This indicates that the min/maxing is way more lax than you make it out to be, and that the true barrier to being able to clear raids, is simply mastering the mechanics of the fight.

2) You can still play the game the way that you want and earn Legendary armor, you might not be able to earn it the way you want to, but to say you can’t earn it from doing what you want is false. You can farm AB, Frac 40, etc til your heart is content, and take the money that you made, and buy it.

Jski.6180:

The thing about Legendary back pieces is that they added in blood stone fine where you can effetely have one with out too much work all be it weaker then a real legendary. I do think they need to add in more Legendary back pieces to the game out side of spvp but a back pieces is nothing compared to a wepon or a full armor set.

Backpieces are also, apparently, one of the easiest cosmetic items for them to add to the game. I’m not saying that other places don’t deserve to be able to have a Legendary armor reward with it, just not this one. Unfortunately it remains to be seen if Anet will do another set, and if so, will it remain Raid exclusive.

i’m pretty sure anet has said that buying runs is not officially supported, and in fact deterred, though they havent gone out their way to stop it. So claiming that as the mechanic designed to spread legendary to non raiders is not likely.

While buying runs isn’t officially supported, they don’t discourage it. It is worth noting that since they don’t support it, you are on your own if you get scammed. Yes you can report, but you probably won’t get anything back from it, so it is very much a at your own risk kind of thing.

In that context, yes someone who does not want to raid, can still acquire armor by buying runs, they just have to accept any risks that come with that.

Jski.6180:

That simply not what gw2 is you need to stop trying to changes things to fit your own likes to make other ppl suffer.

This is simply a false statement, I am not trying to change anything nor am I trying to make anyone suffer (I’m not malicious, I may not be caring, but I’m not malicious). I am accepting of what GW2 currently is. You are trying to change Legendary armor from being a Raid exclusive item to a non-raid exclusive item.

Jski.6180:

Why though what about metor was to powerful out side of raids where you need to have an icd per npc targets hit?

Because of the fact that it could hit a single target multiple times in less than a second, that is extremely powerful, especially with how hard MS can hit.

Jski.6180:

A build a build even ghost thf is a build and it was the video of the ghost thf soloing a raid boss that nerf it not what it was doing in wvw for a good 5 years.

Ghost thief being in WvW for 5 years doesn’t mean that it was exempt from being nerfed. This is also not proof that it was nerfed because of raids, this is your assumption that it was. A video showing a ghost thief soloing a raid boss is not indication that it was nerfed because of that.

Jski.6180:

You still are pushed into very aimed builds and the a lot of blues / greens are not must have for some class types but if your going for the full dps you need the best if your going for that full tank you need the best.
You can play every thing with out legendary armor but because of how horizontal progression works in gw2 its something you should want in all game types and not just raids.

The point that I was making, that you missed, is that you do NOT need the best, in order to complete raids. If raids can be cleared in blues/greens or less than 10 people, you do not need the best of anything, other than awareness, which the game can’t give to you. Does having the best help, you bet it does, but it is not required to clear the content. Managing the mechanics of the fight is required to being able to beat it.

I also even said that other game modes should have their own Legendary armor, just not this one.

Ardid.7203:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Making heavy ASAP simply due to the fact that what I personally find valuable is exclusivity. Only other legendary I own is the pvp backpiece.

Exclusivity is the only reasonable explanation for Raids. It’s also the saddest.

I’m curious, what reasonable explanation are you referring to and how is exclusivity a sad thing?

Jski.6180:

It should be hard to get but not though exclusive content so every one can get it over time.

I disagree. Exclusive content is exactly where it belongs. More exclusivity in skins that are obtained is better overall.

Jski.6180:

There have been lose of builds in wvw divisibility to do nerf and buffs of skill becuse of them working one way or another in raids. Ghost thf (all though i hate this build but it still should be a chose) was nerf because ppl could solo a raid boss not because it was annoying. Staff ele was nerf because its metor was doing too much dmg vs big mobs (all though there still WH with wild fire and lighting orb so i am not sure what going on there). These where updates that destroy builds because these effect push the classes over the top in raids and raids only.

Meteor Shower should have been nerfed long ago, not just because of raids. Yes, raids brought it’s issues more into the light, but it was already OP.

Do you have any proof that ghost thief was nerfed because of raids, or is that just your assumption?

Also, if Ghost thief was nerfed because it could solo bosses, why hasn’t Druid been nerfed yet, as it is able to solo Cairn. Mesmers can solo VG (I’m pretty sure can be done, just not how long it would take).

Jski.6180:

There is a gear wall as in you need the best gear to hit the max / min of dps armor and healing checks of a boss fight in raids. You could even say there build and class walls in raids due to having to over specialized in a roll to even beat bosses. That not what GW2 was made to be and its not good to try to make ppl play that way for things like legendary armor. Even legendary weapons where a mostly play the way you wanted to all be it took a long time to do it.

Two things here:
1) You do not need the best gear in order to clear raids, they have been done in blues and greens. They are also low-manned pretty regularly (I can verify this as I have regularly low-manned bosses, 5-man VG etc), as well as possible to go past the enrage timer without a wipe (my guild once went about 3-5 minutes past the timer on Matt, but still killed him with only one other death). This indicates that the min/maxing is way more lax than you make it out to be, and that the true barrier to being able to clear raids, is simply mastering the mechanics of the fight.

2) You can still play the game the way that you want and earn Legendary armor, you might not be able to earn it the way you want to, but to say you can’t earn it from doing what you want is false. You can farm AB, Frac 40, etc til your heart is content, and take the money that you made, and buy it.

Jski.6180:

The thing about Legendary back pieces is that they added in blood stone fine where you can effetely have one with out too much work all be it weaker then a real legendary. I do think they need to add in more Legendary back pieces to the game out side of spvp but a back pieces is nothing compared to a wepon or a full armor set.

Backpieces are also, apparently, one of the easiest cosmetic items for them to add to the game. I’m not saying that other places don’t deserve to be able to have a Legendary armor reward with it, just not this one. Unfortunately it remains to be seen if Anet will do another set, and if so, will it remain Raid exclusive.

Astralporing.1957:

abaddon.3290:

so your complaining anet hasnt commited suicide from caffeine working so hard to get 2 sets of Armour out at once and put them in different game modes at the same time? jesus dude give them some time! patience is a virtue.

Considering it took them 2 years, they could have done 2 sets. Or an alternate acquisition methos (as it seems this time it was the graphics, not acquisition mechanics, that slowed them down).

Fatalyz.7168:

And you can produce armor sets with their engine faster?

If it’s the engine that causes them so much problems, they should have done something about it already. If not, every next armor set is going to take them longer and longer.

I didn’t say that the engine was the problem. The person I quoted was being sarcastic about the amount of time they were taking. I merely asked that person if they could produce armor faster in their engine (it’s the only thing that matters when complaining about the amount of time it takes), as it doesn’t matter if it can be done faster in another engine, Anet isn’t working with another engine.

Now, if the engine is the problem, yes something should have been done.

Something should have been done long ago as they have admitted that it takes them a long time to design full armor sets (iirc 9 months was what they said it takes them to make full armor sets). Whether this is an engine limitation or a personnel limitation, they did not clarify.

Jski.6180:

phys.7689:

Jski.6180:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Sometimes when we merge, the thread gets a little wonky and it does not appear on the main index page. I’m posting here to “right that wrong” and get this back on the index.

Please note: We do not support polls or petitions on the forums, and ask that you not create threads about them. I have merged those threads into this main feedback thread, but it would be more productive for players to share their individual thoughts outside the parameters of any attempted poll or petition.

Thanks.

Ok i will start my feedback here then.

How they look is not important but how you get them is. If raids are the main way i think its putting to much reward on one game type. Its also taking away from ppl even getting it due to how excessive raids can be. GW2 is the different mmorpg that is for playing the way you want what the point of playing a game type if you do not enjoy it? Please stop making raids the most important thing in gw2 please make legendary armor obtainable in wvw spvp and open world pve.

If raids must have a “hay look at what i can do” make it skins only not a set of gear that you can get a lot of horizontal progression out of.

so what you are really saying is the stat switching functionality of legendary armor is more important than how it looks. and that every one should be able to work towards that without raids.

YES! Being able to switch combos on the fly for a full armor set and wepon at the same time is unbelievably strong in wvw and pve. I would take legendary armor as a long cloth or some of the worst looking skin if only i could get the ability to swap combos (because it add in horizontal progression of combo as they add in more content).

So it seems that you should be asking for another Legendary armor to be obtained elsewhere. Not asking for this one to become more readily available.

Fatalyz.7168:

Two things:
1) Raids are not the most important thing in the game to Anet, they aren’t even acting like it.
2) Legendary armor was the ultimate goal for Raiders. It is possible that they will release another Legendary armor type elsewhere, but for now, this one is strictly for Raiders or those that want to buy their way to it.

When you lose builds in wvw because of raid “balancing” and when they put a lot of story content into raids behind gear walls it becomes the more important thing in gw2.
Legendary should be the ultimate goal for every one who plays gw2 like the weapons where and still are that have nothing to do with raids over the last 5 years.
[/quote]

So what happens when builds in open world pve, raids, and spvp are killed for wvw “balancing” ? It goes all ways.

What gear walls do raids in gw2 have? None that I am aware of, care to explain that theory?

People asked for exclusive rewards per game mode, Legendary armor is the culmination of that. Legendary backpieces were the beginning. The best that can be hoped for, if you don’t want to raid, is that different Legendary armor sets are introduced into other parts of the game.

Fay.2357:

abaddon.3290:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Feanor.2358:

Like The Ascension isn’t tied to PvP and Ad Infinitum isn’t tied to Fractals of the Mists? Both require you to play a LOT in their respective modes.

The point is, I have an option if I want a back item between two very different game modes. Not so for armour.

so your complaining anet hasnt commited suicide from caffeine working so hard to get 2 sets of Armour out at once and put them in different game modes at the same time? jesus dude give them some time! patience is a virtue.

Yeah, they’re really working at a strict pace here! We can’t expect them to pump out a single set of armor in less than 2 years, can we? That’s just absurd. We all know that normal teams would take at least 4 years to make it! They’re practically working at lightning speed here!

And you can produce armor sets with their engine faster?

apharma.3741:

Astralporing.1957:

apharma.3741:

In fact if you actually stopped and thought about it why would any company make a raid you run once for the best stuff in the game?

Maybe because the best stuff in the game should not be so strongly tied to something that is a side content.

apharma.3741:

The concept of doing that is really poor and that’s even if you’ve never done a raid before, those that have done raids before know they’re designed to be rerun multiple times to get gear.

That’s the concept of raids from other games, that GW2 was supposed to distance itself from. The raids in GW2 were not supposed to be a content you farm for gear. They were supposed to be a challenge for a small number of people that thought the rest of the game was too easy for them.

You have it backward, they said raids, as in the content, wasn’t going to be like other games. They said nothing about the rewards being in a do it once get the best thing in the game ever.

Having seen the HoT legendaries which were out long before raids and the armour recipes, how anyone can think it wasn’t going to require doing raids multiple times is beyond me.

Raids isn’t side content, it is end game content, the final challenge for players so they can get a great reward. Don’t like it? Don’t do it! There’s almost no advantage to having legendary armour in 99% of the game and certainly not in PvE.

To clarify something for you, Raids are side content, story-wise and gameplay wise. Strictly intended for people that were looking for challenging group content. Yes, they are the main form of Challenging Group Content for end game, but it is still side content. The main form of end game content for this game is the Open world and LS.

Jski.6180:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Sometimes when we merge, the thread gets a little wonky and it does not appear on the main index page. I’m posting here to “right that wrong” and get this back on the index.

Please note: We do not support polls or petitions on the forums, and ask that you not create threads about them. I have merged those threads into this main feedback thread, but it would be more productive for players to share their individual thoughts outside the parameters of any attempted poll or petition.

Thanks.

Ok i will start my feedback here then.

How they look is not important but how you get them is. If raids are the main way i think its putting to much reward on one game type. Its also taking away from ppl even getting it due to how excessive raids can be. GW2 is the different mmorpg that is for playing the way you want what the point of playing a game type if you do not enjoy it? Please stop making raids the most important thing in gw2 please make legendary armor obtainable in wvw spvp and open world pve.

If raids must have a “hay look at what i can do” make it skins only not a set of gear that you can get a lot of horizontal progression out of.

Two things:
1) Raids are not the most important thing in the game to Anet, they aren’t even acting like it.
2) Legendary armor was the ultimate goal for Raiders. It is possible that they will release another Legendary armor type elsewhere, but for now, this one is strictly for Raiders or those that want to buy their way to it.

Blaeys.3102:

venus.4509:

Blaeys.3102:

Realistically, you will have an EXTREMELY hard time getting into any raid groups as a pure dps mesmer – especially in pugs.

The nature of the content and how they have chosen to do raids has pretty much invalidated many builds (even some very popular ones) – and some professions pretty much outright – in that content, a direction strengthened and made worse by many in the community..

I feel like that is mostly what it has come down to and unless I play the way I’m told to build wise verse I guess the original idea of freedom of choice in build I’m not gonna get very far.

What’s worse is the developers think that this kind of arbitrary rigid design deserves the title “challenging content” when in reality the challenge is the ability to carbon copy everything your neighbor is wearing and exactly how they play their toon.

To a degree, the push to conform to the current raid model removes unique-ness and a player’s sense of identity from the game.

I know from experience that I will get attacked over those comments (can probably even guess who will do the attacking), but it is something more people need to be paying attention to.

The challenge is supposed to be in adapting your character/build to complete the content, and figuring out how best to clear it.

The community has had plenty of people make that part of it easier for the community, by telling them what works best. They are by no means stuck or incapable of clearing the content if you don’t follow that, but they will have to go through the work of figuring it out for the comp that they want to run.

So, if a player’s biggest concern is over the identity of their character, they should invest time in finding other players to complete that content with. There is nothing but their own unwillingness that prevents them.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Do you have any proof that the team that did the armor was a shared resources?

I’m also fairly positive that Anet has a very clear idea of the “big picture”, what they are working on, and what they are working towards. You may not see the big picture the same way that they do, it obviously doesn’t jive with what you want it to be, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t know what the “big picture” is.

I think we all know they likely were shared resources, but even if they weren’t, they definitely should be. New armor skins, clipping and quality of life changes like swappable runes are not things uniquely desired by raiders.

There are finite resources within a company. Delegation of those resources is a reflection of what the company sees as important, and just as much, what they see as unimportant. Im simply commenting on how I perceive that delegation of resources and how I believe it doesn’t mesh with earlier communication regarding where raids fall in the game.

That’s fine if you are just commenting on it. However your comments come off as knowing or having information that others do not.

Yes it very well could have been a shared resource, however we won’t know unless they tell us. Whether it could have been or not, is not relevant to whether it is or not. It also seems likely that if it isn’t a shared resource, that the other teams would be able to take advantage of those advancements that were made and apply them to existing armor, as you said, if they feel it is important enough.

I get that you don’t believe that their statements, however your believe is only founded in your own experiences. We do not know the size of the team that they had working on this. It could have very well just been 3 people for the past 2 years.

The other thing that you can not know, is that if those people hadn’t been used on legendary armor, that they would have been used for other parts of the game. To expand on this, had Anet not made legendary armor, there is no guarantee that the people that made it, would have worked on any of the other things that they could have done that the community wants. Had they not have made Legendary armor, those people that made it, could have just continued making other skins for raiders, and still remain true to their model of Raids not having an impact on other areas of development.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Ashen.2907:

Fatalyz.7168:

Ashen.2907:

A statement that is not true is only a lie if the person making it knows at the time that it is false.

If you honestly believe what you are saying then you are not lying even if you are wrong. If I ask someone about their health and they say that it is good, when unknown to them they have an undiagnosed tumor, they are not lying, just unfortunately mistaken.

And do you think Anet made a false statement intentionally or otherwise? Regarding resources used in Raids? Personally, I don’t. I feel that they made a statement, and have kept to it.

I do not think that they made a false statement in this matter. If they perceive the amount of resources, total number of devs, assigned to raid development to be small then they did not lie. Of course someone else could say that they believe that 5 devs (or however many) is a large resource allocation.

I believe that, if the total number of raid devs is 20 or less, the percentage of the GW2 total number of devs is not more than 10% (if I remember the total correctly). Ten percent is significant, but not what I would consider inappropriately large for content that may very well be enjoyed by a similar percentage of players. Particularly if raid dev innovations make their way into other aspects of the game.

I agree. My statement about lying was more directed to one individual who seems to be presenting arguments in a manner that makes it look like Anet is intentionally misleading their community (without any hard evidence), when I do not believe that they are.

You’re making a semantics argument about the definition of “lying” when I never even said I believed they were lying about anything.

In fact, I have always found Anet to be fairly ethical and up front in their communication.

Im saying that when Anet tried to reassure everyone that resource allocation related to raids wouldn’t have an impact on the rest of the game, they didn’t really think the statement through – thinking in terms of content development and the small raid team but not acknowledging things like this (or story team resources).

So, yes – from an instance and fight development perspective, there has probably been little impact on development outside of the raid team. But when you start looking at the obviously shared resources (such as design and story, most likely), the statement no longer holds water.

I don’t think they were lying, but I also don’t think that the people making the statements were looking at the big picture (a mistake that Anet seems to have made a lot in the past 1.5 years, imo).

Do you have any proof that the team that did the armor was a shared resources?

I’m also fairly positive that Anet has a very clear idea of the “big picture”, what they are working on, and what they are working towards. You may not see the big picture the same way that they do, it obviously doesn’t jive with what you want it to be, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t know what the “big picture” is.

Ashen.2907:

Fatalyz.7168:

Ashen.2907:

A statement that is not true is only a lie if the person making it knows at the time that it is false.

If you honestly believe what you are saying then you are not lying even if you are wrong. If I ask someone about their health and they say that it is good, when unknown to them they have an undiagnosed tumor, they are not lying, just unfortunately mistaken.

And do you think Anet made a false statement intentionally or otherwise? Regarding resources used in Raids? Personally, I don’t. I feel that they made a statement, and have kept to it.

I do not think that they made a false statement in this matter. If they perceive the amount of resources, total number of devs, assigned to raid development to be small then they did not lie. Of course someone else could say that they believe that 5 devs (or however many) is a large resource allocation.

I believe that, if the total number of raid devs is 20 or less, the percentage of the GW2 total number of devs is not more than 10% (if I remember the total correctly). Ten percent is significant, but not what I would consider inappropriately large for content that may very well be enjoyed by a similar percentage of players. Particularly if raid dev innovations make their way into other aspects of the game.

I agree. My statement about lying was more directed to one individual who seems to be presenting arguments in a manner that makes it look like Anet is intentionally misleading their community (without any hard evidence), when I do not believe that they are.

Blaeys.3102:

A single raid mode doesnt work for everyone. It isnt about excuses. It is about legitimately believing multiple modes would improve the game for those people (while having no real impact on how people like you enjoy the game).

Of course a single raid mode isn’t going to work for everyone, it wasn’t even intended for everyone to take part in it. They have the option to take part, but are not required. It was to set a clear standard for challenging group content, not provide an experience that everyone would take part in. This game isn’t about it’s raiding experience, as it isn’t even the main focus of this game, nor should it become that. In order to maintain it’s place, it needs to remain niche content. Which is content for people that are looking for challenging group content.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Harper.4173:

He said challenging group content. Challenging.
If dungeons and fractals are challenging to you…well that’s just you. The hardcore players need something MORE challenging. Heck for the top tier raiders even the raids themselves aren’t that much of a challenge.

I’m not saying that dungeons and fractals are challenging. I’m saying that they could have been the most challenging content in this game. Hell, fractals have the perfect mechanics for that with its tiered structure.

Yes, they could have been, but no point in crying over spilled milk. I’m not sure about you, but I don’t see Anet abandoning another PvE game mode. I think they are going to ride this one out, however the chips land for them.

Ashen.2907:

A statement that is not true is only a lie if the person making it knows at the time that it is false.

If you honestly believe what you are saying then you are not lying even if you are wrong. If I ask someone about their health and they say that it is good, when unknown to them they have an undiagnosed tumor, they are not lying, just unfortunately mistaken.

And do you think Anet made a false statement intentionally or otherwise? Regarding resources used in Raids? Personally, I don’t. I feel that they made a statement, and have kept to it.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

And, to add insult to injury, they have the gall to say that raids do not take resources from other parts of the game.

One other thing I wanted to pick apart from your statement. Do you have a source or any kind of evidence that Raids have taken resources from development in other areas of the game, or are you just making an assumption here?

If you were lied to (ie you have proof that they have done other than what they claimed), or you feel like they are misleading you, why do you support their game?

During the first AMA related to raids, they bragged about how small the team was and that the process was so efficient that it had little impact on resources that could have been used elsewhere in the game. Im just pointing out the anecdotal evidence to the contrary. They can’t downplay the effort in one breath and turn around and talk about how much work they put into it with another.

Also – I have never once said Anet lied about anything – and obviously I still love this game. It is why I fight so hard on topics like this. If I didn’t care or didn’t plan to keep playing, I wouldn’t care enough to continue in these conversations.

Not even anecdotal, as we don’t know what else those resources could have been doing instead, we can theorize, but that’s about it.

Yes, it is easy to say that if they had not made Legendary armor, that those resources could have added a lot more to the game. While that statement would be true, if we knew what else that they could have been working on. For all we know, had there been no legendary armor, those resources would have still been used for raids (while still remaining true to their statement that raids aren’t impacting other areas of the game), and just created a bunch of other content for it instead.

Also, if you don’t believe their statement about raids not taking resources from the rest of the game, to be true, what else would you consider it to be? I don’t know about you, but if I don’t feel a statement is true, it is false, which is a lie.

Harper.4173:

sorudo.9054:

Harper.4173:

Blaeys.3102:

According to this article, they spent “hundreds of hours” to solve the clipping issue on an armor set designed specifically for a small percentage of the playerbase. They redesigned the core engine behind the game for runes for an armor set designed specifically for that same small percentage (which obviously took a really long time as well). Then there was the aesthetic design, armor animations and collection chains associated with it.

This was no small project (at least 2 years of development by most accounts) – all to develop armor sets for a small subset of the GW2 population that likely cares less about the look of armors than any other – and develop features that (specifically addressing clipping) that others in the game have been BEGGING for.

And, to add insult to injury, they have the gall to say that raids do not take resources from other parts of the game.

This was a colossal waste of time and a very clear indicator that Anet has lost any concept of who their players and long term supporters really are.

You do realize that one raider is equal to many casuals in terms of hours put in the game right?

People that raid usually invest and have invested a LOT into this game. I think they deserve the extra effort put into the content.
And it’s not like the armor is even made FOR the raiding community and nobody else. YOU can raid as well and get it – everyone can.
The armor is made as a reward for a specific part of the game that anyone can access. Yes – at this moment only very heavily invested players will get it – but that’s OKAY. It’s alright that not every casual gets every reward. You want it? Go for it. Nobody is stopping you.

wrong, only the most dedicated can, a casual will never ever get it period.
it’s not “okay” that only the most dedicated ones can have it, it’s okay if anyone can regardless of dedication.

You do realize you can buy it right? I explained how in a different post.
Anet have designed legendary armor as something that costs a lot to get in this game. And you’ll have to pay.
Either with your time and sweat – getting good and playing a LOT to get it through raids.
Or with your money – bust out your credit card – get some gems – get gold and pay for runs where hardcore players will carry you to the armor.

To be fair, they don’t have to break out the CC, they can earn gold in a lot of places in the rest of the game. And gold gain is much better in other parts of the game besides raids.

Rednik.3809:

Fatalyz.7168:

If it isn’t working for them, either they aren’t trying hard enough, or there aren’t as many people like them as they think.

Again, that was brought to discussion countless times long before GW2. Raid teaching is not working that way, unless you aim at some miserable percent of participating players, while others will be left unsatisfied.

If you aren’t able to find enough like-minded people to play with, perhaps there isn’t a need to increase accessibility for less than 10 other people?

Rednik.3809:

Fatalyz.7168:

Well let’s see, we had one raid that was supposed to come with HoT, that consisted of 3 wings. It was delayed a little after the release of HoT for final polishing and because the story was supposed to take place after the events of HoT. Since that third wing was released, it was 9 months until another Raid was released. This new raid has only one wing. We do not know how long it will be until another Raid is released, but based on current pace, we could estimate approximately 9 months or a little less, we can hope. In that 9 months, 4 new open world maps and story updates were released (the 4th map and story update coming with the 2nd raid). There were also 2 new fractals released (regardless of how you feel about the assets used in them, they are still “new” repeatable instances), several reworks to existing fractals, we know that a new fractal instance is on the way, along with more reworks. I think it’s a fair assessment and assumption at this point, to realize that they are putting out way more content in other areas, at a faster pace, than they currently are with raids.

I was talking about instanced content, not maps or LS. They are not repeatable enough to keep players busy and satisfied. So far in HoT we have 0 new dungeons and 2 new fractals against 4 new raid wings, this is a fact, pure and simple. And yet people are making big eyes and trying to tell that anet is not making raids their focus for instanced pve.

You have several repeatable story instances that came with each LS update. Also again, you had 3 wings released in the middle of a content drought. 3 wings that were part of HoT , but not intentionally included with it’s release, we were told before hand that it would not ship with HoT, but be part of it. Removing those 3 wings, we have 2 new fractal instances, a new fractal on the way (should be here relatively shortly), several reworks, and 1 new raid. Where do you see that they are putting more effort in Raids? Because you can’t accept that there was a content drought and new content coming that was already supposed to have been part of the expac?

Rednik.3809:

Thing is – to pay attention you need to get at least SOME experience first. See boss arena, see boss, see his abilities, animations, timers, effects. Only after that you can start to build your fight pattern and learn when to dodge/run/burst/CC and so on. And on top of that there single difficuly PLUS hard raid wipe design, where you cannot use battleres like in WoW, so every big mistake is making fight much harder and probably impossible to complete/phase.
That makes process of getting GW2 raid experience much harder than in WoW. And no, watching youtube barely helps.

It’s a good thing no one records their boss kills and uploads them for the community to see and use as a learning tool, oh wait, that is exactly what happens. Are you saying that if you watched a video of a boss kill, you would learn nothing? That would seem to be a personal issue if so, not a game issue.

This is also what training runs are for, to help you get acclimated to the mechanics in the actual fight. It’s possible you want to get used to the mechanics (albiet having them do half damage or less) to give you a reasonable shot of killing the boss on first or second attempt without having to practice. However, if you keep practicing and failing, you will still have that reasonable shot of killing the boss, just not before you are able to get past the mechanics. You should not be able to kill a boss if mechanics are straight being ignored or missed, which is the reason for most wipes.

Blaeys.3102:

And, to add insult to injury, they have the gall to say that raids do not take resources from other parts of the game.

One other thing I wanted to pick apart from your statement. Do you have a source or any kind of evidence that Raids have taken resources from development in other areas of the game, or are you just making an assumption here?

If you were lied to (ie you have proof that they have done other than what they claimed), or you feel like they are misleading you, why do you support their game?

sorudo.9054:

Harper.4173:

Blaeys.3102:

According to this article, they spent “hundreds of hours” to solve the clipping issue on an armor set designed specifically for a small percentage of the playerbase. They redesigned the core engine behind the game for runes for an armor set designed specifically for that same small percentage (which obviously took a really long time as well). Then there was the aesthetic design, armor animations and collection chains associated with it.

This was no small project (at least 2 years of development by most accounts) – all to develop armor sets for a small subset of the GW2 population that likely cares less about the look of armors than any other – and develop features that (specifically addressing clipping) that others in the game have been BEGGING for.

And, to add insult to injury, they have the gall to say that raids do not take resources from other parts of the game.

This was a colossal waste of time and a very clear indicator that Anet has lost any concept of who their players and long term supporters really are.

You do realize that one raider is equal to many casuals in terms of hours put in the game right?

People that raid usually invest and have invested a LOT into this game. I think they deserve the extra effort put into the content.
And it’s not like the armor is even made FOR the raiding community and nobody else. YOU can raid as well and get it – everyone can.
The armor is made as a reward for a specific part of the game that anyone can access. Yes – at this moment only very heavily invested players will get it – but that’s OKAY. It’s alright that not every casual gets every reward. You want it? Go for it. Nobody is stopping you.

wrong, only the most dedicated can, a casual will never ever get it period.
it’s not “okay” that only the most dedicated ones can have it, it’s okay if anyone can regardless of dedication.

A casual can buy it. A casual will only not get it, if they don’t want it. If they want it, they’ll play for it or pay for it.

I also consider myself casual and I have a enough LI for a set now, that I earned by playing.

Also, casual and dedicated are not mutually exclusive. You can be casual and dedicated to obtaining Legendary armor, and you will have it.

Blaeys.3102:

So, at best, 2 years from now, we will have legendary armor for a different game mode.

Would be unfortunate if that happens, no argument from me on that. However, I would like to think that in the process of making this, they may have streamlined the process a bit making future armor and legendary armor sets easier to add to the game.

Blaeys.3102:

This was a bad decision on Anet’s part and one that – if you look at their facebook page, articles about this announcement, etc, that definitely isn’t going over well with players, fans and potential future players.

While true that it won’t go over well with some of the players, only time will tell if it was truly a bad decision.

Blaeys.3102:

My stance on raids is pretty clear at this point (not against them, just not a fan of how they are now). They need to right this ship before it sinks their game (I know that sounds fatalistic, and it wont kill the game, but they do have a big problem here – just hoping they have their eyes open to see it).

“Big problem” is entirely subjective. Yes, you feel that Anet has a big problem on its hands. If the decisions that they have made will kill the game, then yes, I would agree that they have a “Big problem”. However, since it doesn’t appear that they are slowing down or that the game is dying, I don’t see where “Big problem” comes in at.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Fatalyz.7168:

Pretty sure that Anet isn’t attempt to compete with hard core raiding games. Rather I’m pretty sure that they aren’t competing with anyone, rather trying to do their own thing.

Raids were added to this game with the idea to fill one role: Challenging Group Content. Which is something that the base game sorely lacked. If you are someone who loves Guild Wars 2, and wanted more of a challenge, then raids are for you. If you aren’t that person, then raids weren’t for you.

It’s also pretty safe to say that Raids have been successful, in this game. At the very least, they have been very well received, by the people that they were intended for, and that’s all they needed to do.

We have dungeons and fractals for group content. Anet decided to abandon dungeons instead of adding new and more difficult ones, but there’s still fractals.

Dungeons were never difficult, and Anet made the decision to kill them (I’m not defending it, just stating that was what was done). Fractals had multiple levels of difficulties, and is great for 5 man content, even then it’s debatable about how difficult it is, as most of them are soloable (even higher tier difficulties).

Also, Anet decided that Fractals and Dungeons were not able to fit what they wanted for challenging group content, therefore they gave us raids.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Fatalyz.7168:

It is far more likely that those players don’t fit Anet’s concept of the people that play this game or the type of player that they are trying to attract to this game.

Anet has a clear picture of the game that they are creating at this point, and sticking to it. Of course people are going to be left behind, maybe even people that considered themselves diehard fans. So the thing that ends up mattering, is the audience that Anet trying to reach satisfied? If the answer is yes or close enough (and only Anet will really have the answer to that, anything that we could provide would be anecdotal at best), then don’t expect many changes or if there are, they will be geared towards the audience that Anet wants. Even if it comes at the cost of current players.

I have a hard time believing that a game that wasn’t originally designed with raids in mind, that has scared away raiders for years, and that does not have good reward systems to support hardcore raiders, is suddenly going to find massive success through raids, to the point that hardcore raiders would rather leave MMOs entirely dedicated to that to get back to GW2, and to the point that it’s worth sacrificing the entire playerbase that has existed before raids were added.

But hey, I’m not Anet!

Pretty sure that Anet isn’t attempt to compete with hard core raiding games. Rather I’m pretty sure that they aren’t competing with anyone, rather trying to do their own thing.

Raids were added to this game with the idea to fill one role: Challenging Group Content. Which is something that the base game sorely lacked. If you are someone who loves Guild Wars 2, and wanted more of a challenge, then raids are for you. If you aren’t that person, then raids weren’t for you.

It’s also pretty safe to say that Raids have been successful, in this game. At the very least, they have been very well received, by the people that they were intended for, and that’s all they needed to do.

Blaeys.3102:

Heibi brings up a good point. One of the most useful facets of legendary armor is that it empowers players who regularly jump between content types such as WvW, raids, fractals, etc and often need to change stats accordingly.

The idea that raiders somehow benefit more from this feature is flawed. The quest for legendary armor should have spanned multiple game modes in much the same way legendary weapons were first intended to do.

I didn’t see anywhere where Anet or anyone else thought that raiders benefit more from having legendary armor than any other group.

While Legendary armor could have filled that place that weapons were supposed to (covering multiple game modes), they were chosen as the ultimate reward for raiding, so of course the collections for it are going to focus on things that are raid specific. There are also a lot of things that are not raid specific, and must be collected through other means.

One would think that they will have another armor set planned for the future, preferrably obtained from another game mode, with an emphasis on that game mode.

Heibi.4251:

Feanor.2358:

Heibi.4251:

I’m not disappoint in the looks of the armor as much as I am in the method to obtain it. It is basically a Raid only armor. This means ANeT spent years developing something that only the elites and those who pay the elites can obtain. At least with PVP skins you have a decent way to obtain them.

Oh wow, the most prestigious item in the game is only available if you put in some effort, what a shock! On a side note, I’m apparently elite now. On a different side note, I likely won’t ever get The Ascension because I dislike PvP, but I’m not complaining about it.

Typical answer instead of a way for ANeT to actually make sure everyone in the game has a actual chance of obtaining it. And the armor isn’t the most prestigious part of the game. It’s a tool that many players, most of whom do not like or join raids, would like a chance to obtain it. And with an attitude like yours – yes, that makes you an elitist. And to berate someone just because they bring up a perfectly reasonable complaint makes it all the more so.

In PVP all you need to do is play it to obtain Ascension. For Raids you actually have to beat the boss to get what you need. And the current set up of raids excludes players who are good, but just can’t get past that final hurdle.

All this can be fix if ANeT loses its fixation on content for elites and finds an amicable way to make it available to all. PVP doesn’t need to worry about it since they have amulets for stats and there is no uniqueness to players(Not to mention that you can get a Legendary Back Piece in Fractals already – very doable). Like I said WvW players are completely excluded from this new item because they spend most of their time in WvW. I split my time, but would love to have one set of armor I could adjust the stats on so I don’t need multiple sets for different content.

Anet never intended for everyone to have access to a Legendary armor set, at least for this one. This current set was developed to be the ultimate reward for Raiding (it can be argued whether the first ever legendary armor should have been behind raids, but it’s too late to change it), and it should remain the way that it is. It is possible that more could come later and be locked behind different modes, we’ll have to wait and see.

Also, Raids are not content for elites. Raids are content for people who are looking for a group based challenge, which can include everyone from a fresh account with a brand new level 80, all the way up to someone who lives and dies for raids and spends all day on the DPS golem when not in a raid.

Blaeys.3102:

… a very clear indicator that Anet has lost any concept of who their players and long term supporters really are.

It is far more likely that those players don’t fit Anet’s concept of the people that play this game or the type of player that they are trying to attract to this game.

Anet has a clear picture of the game that they are creating at this point, and sticking to it. Of course people are going to be left behind, maybe even people that considered themselves diehard fans. So the thing that ends up mattering, is the audience that Anet trying to reach satisfied? If the answer is yes or close enough (and only Anet will really have the answer to that, anything that we could provide would be anecdotal at best), then don’t expect many changes or if there are, they will be geared towards the audience that Anet wants. Even if it comes at the cost of current players.

Rednik.3809:

Fatalyz.7168:

So create your own raid training run, with your own requirements. Problem solved. Surely if there are as many people as you who dislike that requirement, you shouldn’t have any trouble finding a group.

Aka “make your own raid group”. Was tested in every raid game before GW2. Not working for majority of players.

If it isn’t working for them, either they aren’t trying hard enough, or there aren’t as many people like them as they think.

Rednik.3809:

Fatalyz.7168:

Also, Guild Wars 2 is not a serious raiding game. It is a casual game that extends it’s main story through open world patches, and provides a niche content in raids for those who want more challenging content.

So, you are going to say that anet will stop making more raids? Or at least stop making more raids than ALL other new instanced repeatable content put together?

Well let’s see, we had one raid that was supposed to come with HoT, that consisted of 3 wings. It was delayed a little after the release of HoT for final polishing and because the story was supposed to take place after the events of HoT. Since that third wing was released, it was 9 months until another Raid was released. This new raid has only one wing. We do not know how long it will be until another Raid is released, but based on current pace, we could estimate approximately 9 months or a little less, we can hope. In that 9 months, 4 new open world maps and story updates were released (the 4th map and story update coming with the 2nd raid). There were also 2 new fractals released (regardless of how you feel about the assets used in them, they are still “new” repeatable instances), several reworks to existing fractals, we know that a new fractal instance is on the way, along with more reworks. I think it’s a fair assessment and assumption at this point, to realize that they are putting out way more content in other areas, at a faster pace, than they currently are with raids.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

You sure have some fun ways of using really horrible logical fallacies there.

Let me just use your logic for you.

Show me 10 people who would regularly organize an easy mode raid and do it.

Literally anyone who want to start getting raid experience, because easier mode will be very puggable and without absurd demands like current 100+ LI for Escort or VG.
Like, you know, it happening in normal MMO raid games.

So create your own raid training run, with your own requirements. Problem solved. Surely if there are as many people as you who dislike that requirement, you shouldn’t have any trouble finding a group.

Also, Guild Wars 2 is not a serious raiding game. It is a casual game that extends it’s main story through open world patches, and provides a niche content in raids for
those who want more challenging content. Creating a tiered system removed the “challenging” part from that statement, it also will require more dev resources and make raiding a more central part of the game. I do not want that, nor do plenty of others. Raiding in this game was developed as niche content, and should remain that way.

Kyvrn.4209:

Ayrilana.1396:

Shovel Face.4512:

Ashen.2907:

Kyvrn.4209:

Ayrilana.1396:

Not all skins will appeal to everyone.

Well that’s obvious.

To be fair, so was your title. Of course legendary armor was going to disappoint some people.

Not some, majority.

The Armors look awful, I know it, you know it, Anet knows it, everyone knows it.

Medium armor is another trench coat when medium armor wardrobe is 96% trench coat. Where’s the diversity? People have stated they HATE trench coats, yet Anet keeps pumping them out.

So much for legendary, I’ll just transmute them. 2 years of awful, hideous crap.

Has there been a survey since they released the images on whether the armors disappointed players? If not, how can you say the majority? Just because you dislike something doesn’t mean that your opinion is necessarily in the majority.

I agree with that.

I would have liked Anet to have done a Poll system for this gear instead of keeping us in the dark for so long, teasing? at it… I guess.

Player feed back on this before official release would have be awesome.

Maybe even have a design competition or something.

To be fair, outside of the animations, we already had a very good idea of what the base design of the armor was going to be. For example, we’ve known for a looooong time that the medium armor was going to have a trench coat design, that is not new information. We’ve also know that the light armor was going to have it’s cape feature.

At the end of the day, the base design we’ve known for a long time, and also known that they were going to change it.

Pifil.5193:

Fatalyz.7168:

Either that, or she was able to add it in herself…. Don’t assume she had someone else do it, unless she has said that she had someone else do it. Anet has also mentioned that there is a lot of “spaghetti code”, so we have know idea how easy or difficult something is for them.

We can speculate on how easy or difficult it “SHOULD” be, but that is irrelevant to what they can do.

Yes, documentation is a wonderful thing, however it is their choice on how they want to operate as a business.

I’m not arguing against you on how they should do it, I’m just informing you of what they are doing and how they are handling material storage, straight from the developers mouth.

I’m not assuming anything, I’ll post the direct quote from Lindsey again (it was in the post that you initially replied to):

“As a very quick half measure, I have asked that we at least add the Season 3 map materials to material storage with Episode 5. "

The fact that she said “I have asked that we” would indicate that she didn’t do it personally.

Or she asked to include what she had with this update? It doesn’t indicate that she had someone else do it or didn’t do it herself. We don’t know if she has the final sign-off on what is included in each update.

All we know is that she said "As a very quick half measure, I have asked that we at least add the Season 3 map materials to material storage with Episode 5. " Anything more than that, even what you take as an indication, is still just an assumption (it may be a correct assumption, but it still an assumption).

Also not sure why this wasn’t included on my last post when I attempted an edit earlier, so here goes:

Regardless of how we feel about material storage, Anet as a company or rather the lead in charge of it, does not feel that it is important enough to assign people to work on it over anything else that they are currently working on. That unfortunately means that we can either A) wait until someone has the free time to work on it or wait until someone uses their personal time to work on it.

Pifil.5193:

Fatalyz.7168:

Pifil.5193:

All I wanted was them to add new slots to the Material Storage. I didn’t want anyone to rework UIs or automatically deposit materials or anything like that, I just wanted it so that when I click “Deposit Material” my “Bloodstone Rubies” (for example) go into Material Storage rather than sit in my inventory. So I’m very glad to read the following in her Reddit post:

“As a very quick half measure, I have asked that we at least add the Season 3 map materials to material storage with Episode 5. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5ylj2w/anet_it_has_been_months_when_will_you_finally/

If the other parts of her plan are too complex then of course she can shelve them indefinitely. It’s a pity but those materials were the “biggest offenders” for me.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

If you read what Linsey wrote, she said she has a clear list of what to do, which items will make it into material storage, how to reorganize the UI, and how to prevent stuff from ending up in inventory in the first place. Now, it’s a matter of implementing the plan.

Maybe it’s something that should be a priority from ANet, but that would likely be at the expense of the next expac (due to LM’s other responsibilities). Is it really that urgent?

Not necessarily. That’s why we form teams. Lindsey can hand this over to some other people. She’s done the design work and was about to hand it over when she got distracted onto other work. I guarantee that in a company like ArenaNet that there’s some eager beaver who would be only too happy to take over.

As for whether it’s urgent, well, I don’t know about urgent but I imagine her planned changes will only improve the game and the player experience. It should also help in the creation of processes and guidelines about how this kind of stuff should be handled in the future before we end up with another two or three map currencies and other materials that will have to be retroactively added to storage. That’s time well spent.

Actually Linsey said in one of her Reddit posts that this isn’t something that she would hand over to someone that doesn’t know what they are doing. Apparently material storage if not handled correctly, could have devastating effects.

Here are some quotes from Linsey about passing it off:

“I am unwilling to pull anyone off of their current work to do this. It’s a lower priority task and I don’t have anyone lazing around not doing much. We are all super busy”

“Like others have said, it is very common for devs to have side projects like this and more often than not, Quality of Life changes are side projects. The company’s priorities for investment of resources tends to be different, thus why I have not delegated it out. I mean, purely from a leads perspective, expanding material storage is not more important than other work that I would have to pull people off of to do it. Plus, to top it all off, material storage is a delicate system where small mistakes could result in roll-back level problems were they to hit Live. So I’m simply not comfortable passing it to someone that is not intimately knowledgeable and there are only three other people in the building that are intimately knowledgeable.”

So yes, while there might be some “eager beaver” as you put it, she is simply unwilling to trust them with it. And based off of her comment about it having potentially rollback level issues if mishandled, I will trust her judgement of what needs to be done. I’m sure none of us want another rollback.

Evidently she is willing to trust someone because next release they’re planning on adding the LS map rewards to material storage. It’s a live database, messing it up could be disastrous, of course it could, but they’ve added entries to material storage for the last three legendaries without any problems so I think it’s fair to say that it’s a repeatable process, as for their (apparent) problems with sharing knowledge, well its nothing a little documentation wouldn’t solve.

Either that, or she was able to add it in herself…. Don’t assume she had someone else do it, unless she has said that she had someone else do it. Anet has also mentioned that there is a lot of “spaghetti code”, so we have know idea how easy or difficult something is for them.

We can speculate on how easy or difficult it “SHOULD” be, but that is irrelevant to what they can do.

Yes, documentation is a wonderful thing, however it is their choice on how they want to operate as a business.

I’m not arguing against you on how they should do it, I’m just informing you of what they are doing and how they are handling material storage, straight from the developers mouth.

Pifil.5193:

All I wanted was them to add new slots to the Material Storage. I didn’t want anyone to rework UIs or automatically deposit materials or anything like that, I just wanted it so that when I click “Deposit Material” my “Bloodstone Rubies” (for example) go into Material Storage rather than sit in my inventory. So I’m very glad to read the following in her Reddit post:

“As a very quick half measure, I have asked that we at least add the Season 3 map materials to material storage with Episode 5. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5ylj2w/anet_it_has_been_months_when_will_you_finally/

If the other parts of her plan are too complex then of course she can shelve them indefinitely. It’s a pity but those materials were the “biggest offenders” for me.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

If you read what Linsey wrote, she said she has a clear list of what to do, which items will make it into material storage, how to reorganize the UI, and how to prevent stuff from ending up in inventory in the first place. Now, it’s a matter of implementing the plan.

Maybe it’s something that should be a priority from ANet, but that would likely be at the expense of the next expac (due to LM’s other responsibilities). Is it really that urgent?

Not necessarily. That’s why we form teams. Lindsey can hand this over to some other people. She’s done the design work and was about to hand it over when she got distracted onto other work. I guarantee that in a company like ArenaNet that there’s some eager beaver who would be only too happy to take over.

As for whether it’s urgent, well, I don’t know about urgent but I imagine her planned changes will only improve the game and the player experience. It should also help in the creation of processes and guidelines about how this kind of stuff should be handled in the future before we end up with another two or three map currencies and other materials that will have to be retroactively added to storage. That’s time well spent.

Actually Linsey said in one of her Reddit posts that this isn’t something that she would hand over to someone that doesn’t know what they are doing. Apparently material storage if not handled correctly, could have devastating effects.

Here are some quotes from Linsey about passing it off:

“I am unwilling to pull anyone off of their current work to do this. It’s a lower priority task and I don’t have anyone lazing around not doing much. We are all super busy”

“Like others have said, it is very common for devs to have side projects like this and more often than not, Quality of Life changes are side projects. The company’s priorities for investment of resources tends to be different, thus why I have not delegated it out. I mean, purely from a leads perspective, expanding material storage is not more important than other work that I would have to pull people off of to do it. Plus, to top it all off, material storage is a delicate system where small mistakes could result in roll-back level problems were they to hit Live. So I’m simply not comfortable passing it to someone that is not intimately knowledgeable and there are only three other people in the building that are intimately knowledgeable.”

So yes, while there might be some “eager beaver” as you put it, she is simply unwilling to trust them with it. And based off of her comment about it having potentially rollback level issues if mishandled, I will trust her judgement of what needs to be done. I’m sure none of us want another rollback.

Linken.6345:

pointaction.4639:

It would be nice to be able to change stats on Ascended Rings, Accessories and Amulet like you can on Ascended Armor and Weapons because I have so many of these that are the same stats and very useless and clogging up my bank bags.

If I vendor them it is only worth a few silver.

Then use ascended salvage kits and salvage them?

Make sure that for rings you at least attune them before salvaging, if you have the materials, infuse as well. The reason for this is, that when attuned and infused, each gives an extra roll on the salvage, giving you more chances for more Stabilizing Matrices, which sell well.

NikeEU.7690:

Sigil and rune swap are meaningless if you can’t also swap Stat infusions. I suggest you stop thinking of legendaries as the replacement for all your other gear and just look at them as cosmetics with upside when a particular Stat set is no longer meta.

Stat infusions already have a good solution available in game with the extractors.

Weapons and armor have the upgrade extractors, but those are gem store items and for the most part, not worth it.

I would be ok with the upgrade extractors being moved to the main game and have the gem cost removed.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

But again, you are assuming that someone isn’t paying attention to the larger picture, instead of someone actually making conscious decisions on the direction of the game, that incidently some people don’t like. Even if most of people don’t like the changes, doesn’t mean it lacks direction and someone isn’t paying attention to the larger picture. It just means that the direction of the game is moving on without them.

If the developers actually believe the appropriate response is “the game is moving on without them” (which I dont believe they do) then there is a deeper issue that Anet needs to be addressing.

You don’t mess with your core customers. Any good marketing pro knows that it is easier to keep existing customers than it is to bring in new ones – and that keeping those customers happy is your only real job.

And, in this case, there is, imo, definitely no reason to “move on without them.” There are some pretty basic solutions they could implement to address all issues related to this.

But you are assuming that Anet sees those people as it’s core customer’s, and are also making the assumption of who Anet’s core customers are, unless you have some data to back it up?

Yes, there are some really basic solutions in the game already to address issues related to this.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

There is room for both – they just need to finally realize this and implement a story mode into the raid model.

How would they go about accomplishing both, hire more people, take more time in between content releases, lower the quality of what is being delivered, or deprecate more content to free up resources?

They can likely do both without expending a single additional resource – a point that has been brought up before.

Simply shift the resources that went into the challenge motes from the last raid wing (that are pretty much universally disliked anyway) into a story mode or mote system. Make the harder version the proper raid experience and use the mote system/resources to implement this greater accessibility.

Of course, Im speculating that the resources spent would be roughly the same, but I think that is justified by common sense.

I think that it is safe to say that there were minimal resources put into the challenge motes, and I think it is better for those resources to be spent on making the proper challenge the best experience that they can.

It also took 9 months for them to deliver that second raid wing with the challenge moltes, I’m pretty sure that we don’t want them taking that long between future releases or even longer.

If it took minimal resources, that’s great. I still dont think it would take more to implement what were asking for here.

And, of course it would be worth doing. There is a clear desire for this kind of accessibility – and it would solve some of the other issues related to raids (access to story, the XP advancement issue, build diversification throughout the game, etc).

To your final point – as you yourself said (in the exact same post), the motes probably took minimal resources, so it’s unlikely that they added significantly to the development timeline. It’s safe to say the same would be true of a story mode or mote system.

Or I meant that minimal resources were put into it because they ran out of time and needed to get something released? Time is a resource, it doesn’t have to mean more devs. If the devs don’t have the time to add it properly for the release cycle that they want to maintain, then they don’t have enough resources, this particular resource being time. Of course I am offering my opinion, it could have been because they were adding the challenge motes that it took 9 months to release, and that with out them, it could have been 7 months.

Granted we don’t know what their timeline looks like as only 2 raids have been released, but considering the side nature of raids, I don’t see the release cycle increasing by much, especially not if they have to add differently difficulties.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

It’s just yet another indicator that Anet did not think through the impact raids – in the manner they chose to implement them – would have on the game.

It is what happens when the team approach to design (or any job, for that matter) takes place without proper management or oversight. Designing good content is well and good – but someone has to be taking the bigger picture stuff – and definitely how it impacts the rest of the game – into account.

How can you think that they did no think through the impact on Raids, instead that they thought it through and went with the path that they felt was best.

Is it just because you don’t agree with what they are doing, or do you have some facts to back up the claim that they are not considering the changes that they are doing and lack direction?

Also, not getting experience once maxed was not a feature of Raids, that was already in the game. It was only changed after the fact, once all Mastery lines for the given region were unlocked would provide spirit shards. Raids are a part of the Heart of Maguuma region (both in map and masteries)

Of course I disagree with what they are doing, but that isnt the driver here. Im saying that raids cannot exist in a vacuum, as some kind of separate entity from the rest of the game.

There has to be someone paying attention to the big picture stuff – which would include things like the thousands (maybe even hundreds of thousands) who can no longer realistically gain experience from anything in the game because of a raid-related decision.

How they have chosen to implement raids has had (imo negative) impact on the game. This is just one small example.

But again, you are assuming that someone isn’t paying attention to the larger picture, instead of someone actually making conscious decisions on the direction of the game, that incidently some people don’t like. Even if most of people don’t like the changes, doesn’t mean it lacks direction and someone isn’t paying attention to the larger picture. It just means that the direction of the game is moving on without them.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

There is room for both – they just need to finally realize this and implement a story mode into the raid model.

How would they go about accomplishing both, hire more people, take more time in between content releases, lower the quality of what is being delivered, or deprecate more content to free up resources?

They can likely do both without expending a single additional resource – a point that has been brought up before.

Simply shift the resources that went into the challenge motes from the last raid wing (that are pretty much universally disliked anyway) into a story mode or mote system. Make the harder version the proper raid experience and use the mote system/resources to implement this greater accessibility.

Of course, Im speculating that the resources spent would be roughly the same, but I think that is justified by common sense.

I think that it is safe to say that there were minimal resources put into the challenge motes, and I think it is better for those resources to be spent on making the proper challenge the best experience that they can.

It also took 9 months for them to deliver that second raid wing with the challenge moltes, I’m pretty sure that we don’t want them taking that long between future releases or even longer.

Moonyeti.3296:

Ticky.5831:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

There is room for both – they just need to finally realize this and implement a story mode into the raid model.

How would they go about accomplishing both, hire more people, take more time in between content releases, lower the quality of what is being delivered, or deprecate more content to free up resources?

I’m honestly more inclined to agree with the “raids are ok” attitude; but I honestly think it would be a trivial amount of effort to implement an easy mode.

Just nerf the easy mode into oblivion and don’t give rewards for it. If all the players want is to see the story, gameplay quality should be trivial. They are just going to be playing it once and then be done with it.

I could see doing it like a reverse challenge mote – pick the story only mode and it switches to the easy mode no loot version.

Or, you go in, and that is the “easy” version, and you active the challenge mote if you want more challenge. One argument that I have with that, is that they tried it with the newest raid wing, and I think it is arguable that the quality slipped from the first raid and it’s 3 wings.

Ticky.5831:

Fatalyz.7168:

Blaeys.3102:

There is room for both – they just need to finally realize this and implement a story mode into the raid model.

How would they go about accomplishing both, hire more people, take more time in between content releases, lower the quality of what is being delivered, or deprecate more content to free up resources?

I’m honestly more inclined to agree with the “raids are ok” attitude; but I honestly think it would be a trivial amount of effort to implement an easy mode.

Just nerf the easy mode into oblivion and don’t give rewards for it. If all the players want is to see the story, gameplay quality should be trivial. They are just going to be playing it once and then be done with it.

The problem is that while it is easy to say that adding an easy mode should be trivial. We don’t know the extent of the work that would be required. I think if it was easy, it would have been something either already done, if it was something that they wanted to do.

So with that, two possibilities left:
1) It isn’t as easy as some are suggesting to add an easier mode.
2) Anet just doesn’t want Raids to be associated with easy content. (which is fine because there are plenty of people who agree with this stance).

Blaeys.3102:

Challenging content should be a part of the game – but not when it serves to exclude people from the experience/story/etc based on how they choose to build and play their character.

1) Challenging content should exclude people.

2) Current Challenging content in this game does not exclude people based on they choose to build and play their character. Other players and their own willingness to work at getting better at the content excludes them.

Blaeys.3102:

It’s just yet another indicator that Anet did not think through the impact raids – in the manner they chose to implement them – would have on the game.

It is what happens when the team approach to design (or any job, for that matter) takes place without proper management or oversight. Designing good content is well and good – but someone has to be taking the bigger picture stuff – and definitely how it impacts the rest of the game – into account.

How can you think that they did no think through the impact on Raids, instead that they thought it through and went with the path that they felt was best.

Is it just because you don’t agree with what they are doing, or do you have some facts to back up the claim that they are not considering the changes that they are doing and lack direction?

Also, not getting experience once maxed was not a feature of Raids, that was already in the game. It was only changed after the fact, once all Mastery lines for the given region were unlocked would provide spirit shards. Raids are a part of the Heart of Maguuma region (both in map and masteries)

Blaeys.3102:

There is room for both – they just need to finally realize this and implement a story mode into the raid model.

How would they go about accomplishing both, hire more people, take more time in between content releases, lower the quality of what is being delivered, or deprecate more content to free up resources?

And for the record, they don’t NEED to do anything.

Unable to load into Stronghold of the Faithful.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I wonder how much of an issue it is if time between raids increase, to be honest. As long as they consider how much content they put out for everyone. Because for some reason I feel that the longevity of raids is much better, also due to goals like legendary armor and time gating rewards to once a week.

While playing the living story episodes, those seem to be play once and maybe some minor repetition in the zone, explored it and then pretty much done. It doesn’t have that same longevity perhaps? I feel many players come to Raids as the only other thing to come to they haven’t played through at least once, expecting just a good time and maybe some repeating it for shinies. But it obviously might not be their thing

I think dungeons and fractals and raids are all separate things, comparing them is alright, but they have very different target audiences. I wouldn’t mind seeing a bit less focus on raids, and more on slightly more accessible group content that is challenging but not so challenging that you need to practice and practice. (I mean, it is a game, alot of players just want to play leisurely not practice) Not that I don’t think current raiders deserve their challenges or anything, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of the player base is still waiting for challenging content that is suited for them. (It might be tricky to determine what is challenging for a bigger audience, I suppose)

Going on a tangent here, but in a way I guess fractals is sort of nice with different challenge tiers in that way. Though I wouldn’t mind if fractals as “small instances in the mists” started existing more as “small instances in Tyria” As for most people that might make a more interesting story. It would be setting up fractal-like instances up as 4 difficulty tiered mini raids outside of the mists, which could actually work as an extension of the fractals themselves. As a complete out of the blue concept ofcourse and It would mean it is less tied to fractals which then would receive less updates tied to the fractal hub in the mists and more tangible in Tyria rather than the Mists. So ehh I dunno.

A few thoughts:

1) I don’t know if we have a set release cycle for raids yet. By this I mean something similar to what LS is getting, 2-3 month release cycle.

2) I know it seems like a lot has come out for raids, but I think that was in large part because the wings for Raid 1 were all pretty close to being done. The content drought definitely didn’t help matters either, but that, I think, has since been rectified.

3) Since Wing 3 was released, it had been approx. 9 months until the next Raid was released. In that time, 3 LS episodes (complete with their own maps and rewards), 2 festival events (I understand that they were rehashed, but they did have new rewards to go for), a few Current Events updates, 2 new fractals (yes, the assets in both were recycled content, but that shouldn’t take away from having something new to do), and some PVP seasons. That is a LOT of stuff.

4) I would go so far as to suggest giving them a couple of raid/raid wing releases. Simply so that we can attempt to discern what kind of cadence they are trying to maintain.