Guild Wars 2

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Fatalyz.7168:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

Because it is only a skin?

And legendary is a rather more expensive skin that just has the ability to stat swap so? And i was refering to ohoni which said skins shouldnt be part of prestigious rewards yet no one complained about these ones.

My apology if this was aimed at a specific poster. I didn’t saw quotes or references to anyone, so I assume (wrongly) that it was a general comment.

For someone who has many sets of armor in his inventory, that tier of armor is a pretty big deal regarding quality of life. The rune swapping only add more to it compared to the weapons.

Something that I have come to the realization of since acquiring my first couple of pieces, if you swap stats a lot, it’s not really as convenient. It actually becomes more time consuming to swap stats, runes, and infusions (if you have them), than it is to just swap sets.

Of course, build templates would help with that…. but it’s blasphemy around here to speak of

I agree with the templates. I’m wondering why it is so hard to get since there are a lot less possible combinations in GW2 than in GW.

As for the armor, you also have to factor in that you free 6 inventory slots per set you used to have. That alone is quite interresting.

Personally I only had one other set, a power and condi. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the convenience of it, I just realized that it is more work to change out, esp when changing out frequently.

For the build templates, iirc, they have technical issues or limitations to be able to do it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

Because it is only a skin?

And legendary is a rather more expensive skin that just has the ability to stat swap so? And i was refering to ohoni which said skins shouldnt be part of prestigious rewards yet no one complained about these ones.

My apology if this was aimed at a specific poster. I didn’t saw quotes or references to anyone, so I assume (wrongly) that it was a general comment.

For someone who has many sets of armor in his inventory, that tier of armor is a pretty big deal regarding quality of life. The rune swapping only add more to it compared to the weapons.

Something that I have come to the realization of since acquiring my first couple of pieces, if you swap stats a lot, it’s not really as convenient. It actually becomes more time consuming to swap stats, runes, and infusions (if you have them), than it is to just swap sets.

Of course, build templates would help with that…. but it’s blasphemy around here to speak of

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

and why arent ppl complainin about the caustic nightmare skins bein locked behind 100 cm or gold fractal weapons?

Because it is only a skin?

There are people in this thread arguing to make the Skin of the legendary armor available else where, they don’t care about the Legendary status. I believe that was who this comment was mostly just directed at.

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

At the end of the day, all Anet needs to have is more people that enjoy the experience now, than those who don’t.

Which is why I keep pushing for a better way, one in which more people can be happy.

Proof that it is a better way? It’s a different way, sure, but it’s not inherently better.

You also don’t know if more people will be happy. You know that it will make you happy and some other people.

Ohoni.6057:

I just question why ANet seems to be ignoring those players that made GW2 the success that it is, in favor of players that apparently feel that the game was “a mistake.”

If it was so successful, why would they feel the need to change it?

Two reasons to make a change like that, that I see:
1) It wasn’t as successful a model as you feel it was, or
2) It didn’t fit their vision of the game, and they are making it for their vision.

At the end of the day, all Anet needs to have is more people that enjoy the experience now, than those who don’t.

If anyone had that, I’m sure that they would have given it to you. However, they didn’t have it, so what information was had, was given to you. You could have had a post that went unanswered, instead you’d rather be kittening because the information that was given to you wasn’t what you wanted it to be.

But you know, attacking people always a good way to go about getting what you want. BTW, how’s that working out for you?

aodspeedy.5430:

What would truly be amazing is if you were able to implement a slider where we could adjust the attach point ourselves in game. Since backpieces vary in size so much, I think this would be the best solution to please everyone. But I imagine it would also require significant development time.

Quoting because this is a really solid idea.

Everyone would be able to have their own preference, or as close to it as possible.

I would definitely prefer some clipping.

Even more so, I would like it if the back pieces set properly against the back, but I may be in the minority on this one.

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

You keep bringing in your opinion, so I keep bringing in mine, see how they don’t do anything for the conversation?

Only if you keep repeating positions already in evidence.

Which will only keep happening so long as you keep repeating your same positions. See how we are going to keep going in circles on this?

Ohoni.6057:

It benefits the people who want specific rewards for specific content. Again, those who want it, but don’t have it, have a way to obtain it. They don’t want to do the content, they don’t deserve the reward.

And what’s your evidence that there are more of those people than there are people who just want rewards without caring where they come from? If the reward can be gained anywhere, then players who PvP can get it, and they’re happy, players who raid can get it, and they’re happy, players that PvE can get it, and they’re happy, everyone’s happy except for people who insist that nobody else is allowed to have the rewards from “their” content.

I never claimed that there were more people, you claimed that you would make more people happy, so do you have evidence that you would make more people happy than you would upset?

No? Didn’t think so.

Ohoni.6057:

Also, as you said, the sole purpose is to make people happy, and I am positive that they are making more people happy with clear content goals, than they ever were with “just do what you want”.

Source?

Never claimed it as fact. If you took it for that, well that’s your issue.

Ohoni.6057:

Nor can it be said for Ad Infinitum or Ascension, Luminescent armor, there are other examples in game. Not advocating that those acquisition methods be changed either. Again, you don’t want to do the content for the reward, you don’t deserve the reward.

Nobody “deserves” anything, it’s a game. The devs set goals, and the players can pursue them. Those goals can and have changed numerous times. There are plenty of items that used to require collections or event progression, that now can be bought with Laurels. Do the people that acquire them that way not “deserve” them? Of course they do. If ANet sees fit to make Legendary armor (or any of the other items you mentioned) available through other methods, then the players who earn them via those methods “deserve” them just as much as anyone else.

It is your opinion about what should or should not be deserved, just as it is mine.

Everything in life has something that you want and have to work to achieve. Somethings you have to do very specific things to achieve that goal (someone who only ever plays hockey will never win a Lombari trophy, and those are games). If there is something that has to be worked for to achieve, and you don’t want to do it, then you don’t deserve it because you didn’t earn it.

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

I don’t believe that you should earn legendary armor any other way than through raiding.

Ok, that’s your opinion, but we’ve established that my opinion is different.

You keep bringing in your opinion, so I keep bringing in mine, see how they don’t do anything for the conversation?

Ohoni.6057:

Except who does that benefit? All that leads to is players who want the shiny, but don’t have it, not being happy. Nobody’s life is improved by that philosophy, so why, in an entertainment product with the SOLE purpose of making people happy, should that be the guiding philosophy?

It benefits the people who want specific rewards for specific content. Again, those who want it, but don’t have it, have a way to obtain it. They don’t want to do the content, they don’t deserve the reward.

Also, as you said, the sole purpose is to make people happy, and I am positive that they are making more people happy with clear content goals, than they ever were with “just do what you want”. Are there going to be people unhappy with the decisions that have been made? Of course, but they will either stay and keep playing or they will leave and find a game who fits what they want (which is perfectly acceptable thing to do, and I’m sure Anet is ok with people leaving, who disagree).

Ohoni.6057:

Again, it makes sense to encourage players to TRY various types of content, and rewards that can be earned shallowly only in specific content are fine, but rewards that take large amounts of time and effort to acquire should be available through as broad a means as possible, so that the largest possible combination of [people who want the thing] and [people who have the thing] can be achieved.

This is your opinion.

Ohoni.6057:

apharma.3741:

Achievement points award gems every 5k milestone, gold, various boosters and more pertinently to the arguement 2 sets of unique armour and backpiece as well as 2 sets of weapon skins. Yes I have seen people proudly display those pinnacle skins that they had to earn, you cannot earn them just by logging in daily either.

Yes, but there is always a surplus of AP, it is a constantly growing resource. Even if you somehow manage to avoid all daily log-in AP while playing the game hardcore (which seems contradictory, but whatever), you will be able to get enough AP to have “all the things” unlocked via AP. It might take you a bit longer and would certainly require more effort, but you would get there. The same cannot currently be said for earning Legendary armor outside of raiding.

Nor can it be said for Ad Infinitum or Ascension, Luminescent armor, there are other examples in game. Not advocating that those acquisition methods be changed either. Again, you don’t want to do the content for the reward, you don’t deserve the reward.

Ardid.7203:

Ah, Asuran toes don’t count, then. They are not subtle or hard to notice.

I figured that would already be known about, like the Char tail.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Fatalyz.7168:

Ohoni.6057:

Really though, you’re placing daily log-in on the same tier as raiding, so since you believe the two things are equivalent, why not just give out Legendary armor for daily rewards? Or like maybe a monthly thing?

I don’t believe that you should earn legendary armor any other way than through raiding. I would say the same thing if it was behind WvW, the daily system, PvP, etc. Just like I don’t believe that the AP armors and back pieces shouldn’t be available via anywhere else either.

OK, why?

I can understand that argument for a skin, but an equipment slot? No.

I worded that poorly. What I mean is: I don’t believe that you should earn this armor type via any other means than Raiding.

I understand the argument for the tier of gear, but since the armor is the skin…..

I agree that Legendary armor, as a type of equipment slot, should be available in multiple formats (see Ascension and Ad Infinitum). The problem is that Anet doesn’t want to make another Legendary armor set. I think we would should be pushing for them to create that type earn-able via other methods. Or rather that other methods should exist to obtain Legendary armor, as a equipment type, but not the skin that it currently has. If they were to create a Legendary armor tier that is available else where, I’m sure people would accept that with a basic skin, more than they would not being able to obtain a similar tier else where.

Has anyone else noticed any other clipping with the Legendary armors? Obviously Charr tails, but was looking for more subtle clipping that could have gone unnoticed.

Ohoni.6057:

Really though, you’re placing daily log-in on the same tier as raiding, so since you believe the two things are equivalent, why not just give out Legendary armor for daily rewards? Or like maybe a monthly thing?

I don’t believe that you should earn legendary armor any other way than through raiding. I would say the same thing if it was behind WvW, the daily system, PvP, etc. Just like I don’t believe that the AP armors and back pieces shouldn’t be available via anywhere else either.

Again, this is about having clear goals and rewards for specific content in the game. You want the shiny, but you don’t want to do the content, too bad you don’t deserve it, pretty simple. And whether you like it or not, armor is a clear reward in this game, and should (not to mention most likely continue) require completion of specific content to unlock. Just like the Ad Inifinitum and Ascension.

Ohoni.6057:

Fatalyz.7168:

The 15k limit on Daily achievement points. Yes, you can get achievement points from other areas of the game, but if you never do dailies, you’ll always be missing out on a potential 15k AP.

So? You’ll always be a bit behind the curve, but so long as they keep adding new APs ahead of whatever you need to gain AP-based rewards, you never need to have ALL the APs. That’s not a reasonable counter to a set of armor that you can’t get anything remotely equivalent anywhere else.

And you don’t have to have Legendary armor, any more than they have to have all of the AP. You want Legendary armor just as much as someone may want Achievement Points. To so readily dismiss what someone else may want, in favor of what you want, is disingenuous to your argument.

Astralporing.1957:

Joxer.6024:

A simpler comparison is this…..you don’t get the daily rewards if you don’t them, period.

Point me to a single thing i get from daily rewards that i can’t get from other sources.

The 15k limit on Daily achievement points. Yes, you can get achievement points from other areas of the game, but if you never do dailies, you’ll always be missing out on a potential 15k AP.

Ohoni.6057:

Crinn.7864:

Ohoni.6057:

You make a good argument in the first paragraph, then derail it in the second. Raids do lock out players who don’t want to raid.

“don’t want to” isn’t a lock out. It’s a purely voluntary choice. Any player who wants the legendary armor in this game has the power to attain it.

Of course “don’t want to” is a lock out, because players who don’t want to play that mode are locked out of that reward entirely. You were the one that raised the analogy of the Ferrari, and how anyone who was willing to work for it could earn it. I was merely pointing out that people can “work for it and earn it” in any of a thousand different ways, taking all sorts of different time, skill level, and luck to achieve.

That’s all anyone is asking for here, alternative methods, ways that DON’T involve raiding of earning the armor, so that if you don’t want to become a doctor, but still want to get a Ferrari, you could be a lawyer instead, or you could be a plumber, and it might take you longer, but you could still get there.

If the player voluntarily chooses to never leave their safe zone then they should accept the limitations that they self imposed on themselves.

Why? Why shouldn’t they ask for changes that would improve the game for them? Raiding wouldn’t make them happy, so who would benefit from them raiding? Why should that choice be rewarded, or punished?

Leaving comfort zones and trying out new game modes is something that should be incentivized whenever possible.

You are conflating “trying” with “playing for hundreds of hours.” The two have nothing to do with each other. I agree with you that players should be encouraged to TRY things outside their comfort zone, to spend a reasonable amount of time attempting various activities, but if they do try them, and genuinely feel that these activities are not something they enjoy doing, then they should never be punished for not wanting to continue doing them.

Sure, have rewards that require you to TRY specific activities that might be outside of people’s comfort zones, but then respect the choices they make afterwards, and allow them to do something else instead for the same eventually reward if they decide that this new content is not something they enjoy.

You seem to enjoy raiding, and want to continue doing it. Not everyone is the same as you, not everyone will ever enjoy raiding, no matter how much or how little time they spend on it. They deserve to be happy just as much as you do. You continue raiding, allow them to do something else, and don’t insist on withholding things from them just because they don’t enjoy playing the same content you do.

I just have to say I disagree. Locked rewards is the way to continue forward in this game. It was something that enough people wanted, that they started doing it (see Legendary Backpieces, and now Armor, more sure to come in the future). If you want the “best” reward for that game mode, you should have to spend the time in that game mode earning it. If you don’t like the game mode that is fine, but you don’t deserve the reward.

Despond.2174:

I personally feel legendary armor should have been something you definitely don’t want to hide or transmute over. The heavy armor looks ok, the rest are so spiky for some reason, makes like someone said you feel like a cactus. xd There’s outfits that look a lot more “legendary”. I think the visual should have superseded animations. Given all the time, the armor should pop out and make you stop in your track just like when you first saw someone running through LA with Twilight.

But, I’ll probably never be able to make it anyway, and some may like that spiky look, but overall the consensus seems pretty obvious for me. I do like the idea of having legendary armor, and the stat/rune benefit. Maybe in the future they can release more, I mean these don’t have to be the only ones.

While true that this set doesn’t have to be the only one, they flat out said that they think one is sufficient.

Relevant quote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/68vw84/flashpoint_devs_here_ask_us_anything/dh1qa6m/?context=1000

Not sure if this should go here or bugs, but I noticed that the back of the Legendary Light Armor clips into my characters back while running and it’s in combat mode.

Picture to show, it’s not bad, per se, I just didn’t expect it.

Thao.3947:

Miellyn.6847:

Thao.3947:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

I get the feeling ppl are in denial about there own views so i am more or less talking to anet dev most of the time. There will be real consequent to gear like this being added with a raid wall. Just trying to give warning and the real storm to come.

I get the feeling that you are in denial about what the community wants, and what they game devs are doing based on feedback from the community.

But you keep on believing as you believe, you’ll realize in time that there is no “real storm to come” and no “real consequen(ces)” to this gear being added. You’ll also realize that this armor isn’t going to be changed from a raid only armor nor will it be changed into a skin only.

So do you think the community, aka all players, wanted a raid only legendary armor? Really?

If the devs listened to the community and not a vocal minority GW2 could do better. Perhaps you don´t remember that they had to rework their precious hot maps and metas or the new desert borderland fiasco.

The actual point is, would we ever have seen legendary armor without raids? If the answer is ‘no’, there is no reason to cry it is raid only.

Then i would prefer no legendary armor.

Raiders are a minority in GW2. And I think not all of them will go for these armor. So all this massiv work (read blogpost) for a part of a minority of the community … well done anet.

I get that you would have preferred no Legendary armor, however it’s here now and it most likely isn’t going away at this point. I mean honestly, we’ve known that Legendary armor was going to be a raid only armor skin for over 2 years now as it was announced with Heart of Thorns as being the ultimate reward from raids.

It would be much more useful to provide feedback on adding a different sets to different game modes, or make suggestions for how the next Legendary armor set that they want to make will look. Such feedback could be as simple as, “Please no buttcapes on next Legendary armor!” or “We would like a set that is obtained via WvW.”

Thao.3947:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

I get the feeling ppl are in denial about there own views so i am more or less talking to anet dev most of the time. There will be real consequent to gear like this being added with a raid wall. Just trying to give warning and the real storm to come.

I get the feeling that you are in denial about what the community wants, and what they game devs are doing based on feedback from the community.

But you keep on believing as you believe, you’ll realize in time that there is no “real storm to come” and no “real consequen(ces)” to this gear being added. You’ll also realize that this armor isn’t going to be changed from a raid only armor nor will it be changed into a skin only.

So do you think the community, aka all players, wanted a raid only legendary armor? Really?

If the devs listened to the community and not a vocal minority GW2 could do better. Perhaps you don´t remember that they had to rework their precious hot maps and metas or the new desert borderland fiasco.

I don’t think that the community wanted a raid only Legendary armor.

I think the community wanted Legendary armor, the community wanted Raids, and the community wanted content locked behind specific game play modes to show mastery in those areas. The community received those things, just not in the way that they expected.

I have also said repeatedly through out this thread, I think that the first ever Legendary armor being placed behind raids was a mistake, but that it is most likely too late to change it at this point, due to how heavily intertwined with the Raids it is. The better option would have been to make something more generally accessible, but that assumes Anet wants Legendary armor to be easily accessible (judging by the collection requirements for the second collection, they don’t).

Personally, I don’t think Legendary gear (specifically the Gen 1 weapons) should have ever been as easily accessible as what it turned out to be. Legendary armor, backpieces, and the Gen 2 weapons are going in the right direction, content locked behind specific game modes, imo.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The only major irritant I ever had with raids is Anet choice of making the Raid reward be the only suit of legendary armor in game. It was a poor choice to put it there if they only planned to ever put one out before GW3 comes out.

This I can agree with. I think was a bad idea to put the first ever Legendary armor behind Raids. I think it would have been much better received if it had been added with a collection similar to the gen 2 weapons, for the first set. I do think tho, that at this point, it isn’t likely to change from a Raid armor.

Fortunately, at least from the post announcing the Legendary armor, they said that it would be the fist set of Legendary armor. To me that implies that they want to make another set, at least at the time of the blog post they did, don’t know if they still do after taking 2 years on the first set.

Jski.6180:

I get the feeling ppl are in denial about there own views so i am more or less talking to anet dev most of the time. There will be real consequent to gear like this being added with a raid wall. Just trying to give warning and the real storm to come.

I get the feeling that you are in denial about what the community wants, and what they game devs are doing based on feedback from the community.

But you keep on believing as you believe, you’ll realize in time that there is no “real storm to come” and no “real consequen(ces)” to this gear being added. You’ll also realize that this armor isn’t going to be changed from a raid only armor nor will it be changed into a skin only.

For what it’s worth there is an interesting post on Reddit that claims upcoming information, and the information in it concerning the future of Necro, looks pretty good, if it’s true, that is.

Swagger.1459:

So you have to complete the raid again or enter a cleared instance?

Per the description from the article, enter a cleared instance.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Rain.7543:

If people need easy mode to learn the raids, then they are not really interested in the challenge this content is meant to offer, they just want to cheese their way to what they persist as AMAZING rewards. Well let me burst your bubble on this one. Raid rewards are by far not that amazing. Sure you get some liquid gold, a chest of ascended here and there and some minis if you are lucky or if very lucky the ghostly infusion from w1. Nothing really that you cant get in t4 fractals for instance. The infusion you can even buy for pretty low gold amount from the TP. Well besides the legendary armor, which is about to realease, which is the end goal of many raiders besides the offered challenge.

Anyhow rewards aside, if ppl were really and I mean really interested in challenging themselves into what is the current most difficult content ingame they would simply stop whine, put the effort and time needed to find ppl with the same mindset and same motivation, form a group, gear up, do their homework from the pletora of videos, guides etc on raid bosses and go into the raid to practice, learn, fail and eventually succeed like all of us when we first were starting raiding. Because if you were willing to put the time and energy into learning the actual bosses like you have time to come up with those 1774174 ideas of ez raid modes and whatnot by now you’d probably have gotten your first raid boss, wing clear or even full clear.

Because it is very, very possible and very, very accessible, as long as you are willing to put the effort into it. But nah, its much more easier to do nothing, but post a few posts, crying out loud how hard it is to do raid in this game. Whatever float your boat guys, but dont expect Anet to change how raids are done in this game anytime soon, if at all. They already made a clear statement on this, not sure if it was missed or smth, or just purposefully ignored.

I always take offense at post like this one. Not because it is false that you need to want something and invest time and energy to make it happen. It is true.

The offense I take doesn’t come from what was said, but what was not. Truth is, willingness and efforts won’t cut it alone. Just like making paper balls to throw them in a garbage can won’t solely be a matter of owning your aim with time and energy. If the lid is on the trashcan, good luck ignoring the variable “TrashcanIsOpen”. If it isn’t, no amount of dedication will make the paper balls able to enter that can. In short, there are other variables in the equations that need to be included to make sense of what can be observed rather than just lazily conclude on laziness for everyone not making it just because it’s convenient and flatters your ego as an added bonus.

I’m not saying there are no players who would enjoy every reward sent to them by mail. Sadly, there are more than I expected. However, you do not have to resort to that line of excuse to explain why it works for you and it doesn’t for plenty others. Plenty others you have very little information about might I add.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, people should stop assuming that what was true and has worked for them will work for others, and that if it doesn’t it’s because they don’t want to. You have plenty of room for rational explanation before reaching laziness. You are an anecdote, and as such have no inferential power so stop behaving like you do. Just be happy you enjoy that content and that you have a positive feedback loop you are in a position to enjoy in that game spot. It’s great, just enjoy.

As per your trashcan example, is there something physically in the game that bars them from spending time and effort, as a trash can lid being down while throwing paper balls? last I checked, there wasn’t.

Lunarian.3947:

So none of these arguments mean anything…. its inconvenient the whole purpose in guild wars 2, if you watched the video when it was coming out, was to be a new fun game where players could enjoy themselves without tons of inconveniences. I understand that stuff like legendary weapons and ascended items are going to be a grind and stuff to get but just let me access the rest of the map. Not a big deal or concept. Saying well this map sucks to doesn’t solve the problem, if lame maps isnt a new concept then perhaps they should fix the issue.

I mean, inconveniences are subjective. They never specifically labeled any inconvenience, just that you would be able to log in and play, and that is as true today as it was then. They never said you could just log in and immediately complete your goals.

Blaeys.3102:

Fatalyz.7168:

As the person that we were responding to mentioned, it could have an impact on the type of mechanics that are introduced. I don’t think any of know if this would really happen or not, but it is a concern.

I think this would only be a factor if differentiation between the two modes was simple number scaling. I think it would be more likely that any story mote would involve peeling away the harder fight mechanics (just as challenge motes often add mechanics).

And to your points about the most recent wing and difficulty. If you look through many of these threads, you will find a lot of people talking about how easy the fights in that wing are compared to the first three. Some harder core raiders even claim those fights are already easy mode (a point I would argue is probably true for the top tier raiders – they aren’t hard enough for them). This, imo, is a result of Anet, rightfully so, trying to cater to a wider range of players with that wing (even though I feel they failed in that goal).

They are trying to please too many people with the single mode they are developing – and the result is they aren’t really offering anyone the experience they want. I think the only solution is tiered raiding. It lets developers focus the experience to the audience – including actual hardcore raiding for hardcore raiders.

Peeling away harder raid mechanics? I’m not under the impression that any of the mechanics were hard or difficult, it was just a matter of learning them.

I don’t think it was so much of trying to cater to a wider audience, I think it was to provide something else to do. I feel that if it was meant to try to cater to a wider audience, the rewards for repeating the challenge motes would be better or at least repeatable, not a one and done.

As general player skill increases, it’s only natural for them to stop finding the same challenge that they had before. That doesn’t mean that Anet should keep increasing the difficulty level. That is why Raids are not modular in design like fractals, nor should they be. In their current design, they do exactly as promised, provide challenging group content.

The raid developers are already focusing the experience on the audience – those that want Challenging Group Content, and the most challenging content in the game.

I also think that you are mistaken in saying that they are trying to please too many people. They specifically have said that it is niche content for a niche group of people (people who wanted Challenging Group Content, not people who wanted additional story content, albeit people that wanted Challenging Group Content received additional story content, just not GW2 main story content. Example – BoP has no bearing on the GW2 story arc, it’s just a nice side story that wraps up a loose end from the first game). That doesn’t sound like trying to please too many people, rather trying to please a specific subset of people.

Now, if they aren’t pleasing their target audience, they most definitely they should look at increasing their audience. But the thing is, neither of us has any factual data that shows whether they are reaching their target audience or not, so it’s really hard to continue the discussion past this point, because neither of us can definitively prove the success or failure of raids. Which is also the point that all of these discussions break down, because opinions get brought in, and opinions are going to change most people’s minds, facts do.

Personally, I’m of the opinion that they have been overwhelmingly successful within the target audience, and because of that I don’t see a reason to change it. Also because I don’t want more in-game resources spent in raids. Any new resources should be going to other areas of the game, WvW, sPvP, LS, artist teams for new armor and skins, etc. Raids should be the last thing to receive any new or additional resources.

Jski.6180:

It may of not been to you but its very important to ppl and the more gear grind and pve walls the harder the communally going to come down on anet. Your not going to convince me i am just being blunt what about to happen in gw2.

Here we go with the hyperbole again….

Really? How do you know what will happen? Can you predict the future? You are stating what you THINK will happen, not what you know, please indicate that in your statements.

You are completely dismissing the fact that a lot of these changes came, because the community wanted them (may not have always been how the community envisioned it, but that’s beside the point). Now you are trying to tell us that the community doesn’t want them? You should definitely be providing some proof for those kind of claims.

Jski.6180:

They talk about being able to play the game and all part of the game when you log in. Raids are the type of game play where you need to grind to get to. Raids alone are not wrong for the game but how they are doing it and by adding in real gear progression in gw2 way IS a problem with the ideal of GW2.

There is no gear progression, it is same stats as Ascended, you just get QoL advantages. You don’t grind to get to raids. Raids are a natural evolution of playing the game and developing skill. You start off leveling 1-80, then you might do some dungeons or meta events, then you might get into Fractals, T1-T4, then, if you are looking for more challenge, you get into Raids. You don’t pop and instant level 80 booster and jump straight in Raids. You wouldn’t have popped into AC at level 20, or if you did, you would have been seriously abused. Raids are that natural end game horizontal progression. As your skills in game increase, you’ll start looking for more of a challenge.

Jski.6180:

Why not just make them skins and skins only why is it so important that you can swap if this was not real progression in gw2 ways would you still want legendary?

Because then they wouldn’t be Legendary, they would be skins, and tbh I only really like one of them. I am making one for the utility of not having multiple sets of gear on my main character and being able to test out different builds and stat combinations at will. If I was only running one set of gear, ever, and had no desire to test out other builds, I’d only get it if I was interested in the skin.

Ashen.2907:

zealex.9410:

Ashen.2907:

Fatalyz.7168:

This perfectly describes a situational aspect where it is better, but better does not mean stronger. Thank you for making my point.

To be fair, in a situation such as MMO combat involving stat numbers its not unreasonable to use better and stronger interchangeably. Particularly if the person using the terms may not be a native English speaker.

Some of those stat combos are actually better at what they are meant to do than non HoT versions.

Yeah but thats not an issue with the armors its an “issue” with hot having new stats :/

OK.

I only got involved in that interaction because it as pretty clear that it was being sidetracked by semantic arguments over whether the new stats were better or stronger. Will they be more readily accessible to legendary owners than to non legendary owners? Maybe. Maybe not.

Any new stats will most likely be available to Legendary owners first (at least depending on how fast they can add it to the drop down). That isn’t to say that somewhere else they can’t obtain them that same day, just that they had to do something to get them.

And from a WvW perspective, I had suggested that new recipes be added to the notary vendor to make sure WvW players have easy access to them.

Jski.6180:

Do you realty want me to go took for a post that well over 3-4 years old?

If you know it exists, why wouldn’t you, it would make your point, and not give me anything to argue with you over.

Jski.6180:

See that the thing your asking for links over things that are know by ppl what do you link some one saying something about it do i link you think from wvw forms ppl talking about gear and 4 combo. At a point you got to look for your self or take ppl world for it. Do you think i am trying to lie? Its out right silly and trying to distracted from the point that Anet is adding in legendary armor behind a raid wall that most ppl do not play and will not get to play.

For one, no I don’t think you are trying to lie. I think you are using hyperbole, which doesn’t help you get your point across, and leads to situations like this. If you had just stated your opinion, and left it at that, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. However, you keep saying things like, “The ppl who like gear raiding went to WoW years ago and ppl who are in gw2 mostly hate that type of mmorpg.” or “Once they get a full set no one will raid agen because it become pointless. In effect putting these items in raids is going to kill raids off in it self.” or “NO that is bad very bad in-fact its game killing for something like GW2”. In those statements you are clearly trying to pass something off as fact, but not providing anything to back it up, so yes, the burden of proof is on you, no one should have to fact check for you. If you can’t be bothered to provide facts, don’t try to make factual statements.

Jski.6180:

The only proof i need to give you is this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

Raids do not fit with GW2 manifest and putting more behind a raid wall is putting more sins on GW2 and anet.

Watched it then, and watched it again. There is nothing about no raids in the manifesto, or even that content locking was against their design. Only that this was not going to be like any other MMO out there (that is called marketing speak, they were trying to sell you something, without being specific). In my opinion, it isn’t like any other MMO out there, and they have done a wonderful job of following through on that. That is also a 6 year old video, to expect that the game and the game’s vision won’t change over time, is super naive.

For 100cm, iirc, you are running the correct build for condi PS. The extra CC should be coming from the rest of your teammates, not you. If you are in a pug environment, you won’t have as much control over your teammates, so if something needs to be covered, you may have to do it at a loss to personal DPS.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lunarian.3947:

First that is boring you should be able to go to the map at anytime and enjoy it. Second I shouldn’t have to go to another website to find out how to enjoy a part of the game.

You can go at any time and enjoy the 80% of the map that doesn’t need meta progression. You don’t have to use that website as you can simply go to a map and look at the timer. This is just easier.

To add to this, check LFG for maps that are doing the meta, for the last of the points that you need. You don’t have to take part in the meta, but there really isn’t much else to do there, besides that.

phys.7689:

Katastroff.1045:

Why is it a problem that legendary armor is gated by doing raid? After all its an end game goal and it should be reachable by doing end game content.
We already have legendary weapons that are gated by buggy events that dont start or get stuck, at least raiders do know they will see the end of it at some point, while the rest are still waiting to see bug fix on older stuff to finish their collections.

The real problem is this community has never accepted raids as the endgame of guild wars2 its a bit of a hard sell, since it way more difficult to even attempt than anything else in the game, and directly opposite to what many people though the endgame of this game was before it.

people see it as one option among many in the game, and thus dont like it requiring a sizable investment into the game mode.
for comparison, a legendary weapon needed 500 tokens, thats like 6 dungeon paths
wvw needed 500 badges, which even before they gave em out like candy would probably take a week at best.

to be clear, i think the only fair complaint is based on the utility of legendary, not having a nice or special skin, which is totally fair game.

if they can get the community at large to see raiding as the logical endgame and culmination of pve, then people will have less complaints, but i think thats fairly unlikely, since it would have probably happened by now if that was the case.

It’s safer to say that a portion of the community has never accepted Raids as end game content, not the community as a whole. There was also a large portion of the community that wanted raids, why we ended up getting them.

If people expected anything less than difficult end game content, they were never paying attention to what they devs were telling them that they were trying to do. Remember, explorable dungeons were supposed to be THE challenging content in game at launch, and it was, for a short period of time.

Let’s also keep in mind, that Anet has said that this is the first set of Legendary armor. That to me implies that (at the time at least) they want to make more Legendary armor, we just have to wait and see.

I think that putting the very first set of Legendary armor ever in this game obtainable only via Raids, was not a wise decision, but that does not mean I think that it should be changed.

The only way I could see the avoiding backlash like this, would have been to create multiple sets, or just have the first set obtainable via standard open world pve, like weapons are.

phys.7689:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Its called not letting ppl get a free ride. Legendary armor seems to be more of a time gated item set where weapons where more of a gold gated set. By making them have a means of needed to work for a new combo you keep them on par with other players progression.

Two things:
1) What is free about a 2500 gold set of armor?
2) Stat combos are not end game progression, I covered this already in my previous post to you. They maybe to YOU, but your opinion is not fact. Fact: End game progression in this game is around acquiring legendaries, Mastery progression, WvW rank progression, and sPvP skill levels.

I did horizontal progression is gw2 treadmill. You just do want what to here it is all. All games have some type of progression most of them are strong version of the gear but that not the only way to add in progression to a game.

Jski.6180:

It is power creep at its purest form. If they add in more combos like traibalzers or even 5 state combso or a super 1 combo you can for free and with out doing pve content get these effect right as they are added to the game.

So i am suggestion make legendary armor and wepon need to have content to unlock there new combos any thing beyond that they are going to brake most raiders players need to keep playing AND make raider better then every one else in wvw setting.

You apparently do not know what power creep is. Power creep completely invalidates what came before it, kinda like the elite specs did for more core specs.

Why does Legendary tier gear need to have an unlock for new stat combos? So someone just spent an inordinate amount of time and money on making something, and you are now trying to tell them that they should need to spend more time and money on it. That is a terrible suggestion. You are trying to invalidate the work, time, and money that someone spent, just because you feel it isn’t fair, which is so wrong.

Btw, where are your facts, proof, or evidence?

Ppl can spend there money how they pleases but it should never give you an advantages over other ppl. Relay it should be a skin and effects only it should do nothing for combos and how strong you are.

Trailblazer and over all 4 combo is prof. You know just keep asking dose not make your argument any stronger.

The only advantages it gives you are QoL advantages.
1) Stat-swapping out of combat
2) Never have to make a higher tier weapon, the stats will always be at the best in the game.
3) New stats as they are added to the drop down (as of HoT, that wasn’t always available same day on weapons, so this may have changed)

It does NOT provide a power increase, as people in ascended are at the same power level.

You not providing proof, facts, or evidence does not make a case for your “complaints” or lend any weight to your “opinions”, so yes I am asking for those things. Otherwise, again you aren’t here for a discussion.

Trailblazer and 4 stat gear is proof of what, exactly?

while it isnt powercreep literally speaking,

I think you are being disengenous if you arent saying its not a huge advantage over not having it.
Having players who can swap gear for any situation as needed, on the fly is extremely powerful.
Im a healer in this fight, a Direct DPs for this fight, COndi in this fight, tank in another fight. That is no small ability to have. and while you could walk around with every stat set of armor, its not really too likely, and it would be way more expensive.

I’m not saying it isn’t an advantage, I’m saying it is QoL advantages.

People in ascended armor can stat swap out of combat, just by carrying multiple sets (which will cost less than a full set of Legendary armor, depending on how many sets you need).

As you said, it’s not likely that you will walk around with every stat, it’s also highly unlikely that you’ll use all of the stats provided by Legendary armor, on just one character.

Jski.6180:

Items like these should be for every one that the point of GW2 it not your stander grind game or at least it should not be made that way and raids are messing it all up making it into an off brand WoW.

Items like these are for everyone, that wants to complete the content for them. Items are being locked behind collections since HoT, Legendary armor is not new to this, and is not a fault of Raids.

Jski.6180:

GW2 was made for ppl who wanted to be able to do all content with out having walls to get in there way. Raids came after the fact and they have made wall that block off content for ppl.

There is nothing in the game that prevents you from being able to do Raids or any other content in the game that is locked behind specific content. It’s only desire. If you don’t want to do the content, you don’t get the reward. This was requested by the community, and it was delivered with HoT, not Raids. Look at the Gen 2 weapons and the 2 backpieces we have currently.

Jski.6180:

So wvw players can buy legendary armor and backpicese? I think your mixing things up becuse you craft them over time they are going to be account bound and there achievements collection you must get though to get them from raids.

You can people to complete the achievements for you, at least for the first collection. The second collection is all on you, but you can buy the runs.

Jski.6180:

NO that is bad very bad in-fact its game killing for something like GW2. The sec another game comes out that offers the old gw2 set up this game is done. The ppl who like gear raiding went to WoW years ago and ppl who are in gw2 mostly hate that type of mmorpg. The point of no raiding has past at best ppl are raiding just for the chase to get legendary armor and nothing more. Once they get a full set no one will raid agen because it become pointless. In effect putting these items in raids is going to kill raids off in it self.

This is your opinion, unless you have facts, evidence, or proof to back it up. I know for a fact that my guild will continue to do raids, long after we all have our armor, for those of us that want it.

Jski.6180:

It sounds like your playing the wrong game. This is not a raiding type of game and your only asking for more pain in the long run when your group falls off once they get there items before or after you. Pve players are some of the must cut though group get there loot and run type.

Rather it sounds like you are confused. I don’t want this to be a Raid-centric game, look at my post history, I’ve said this many times.

You are also making a baseless assumption about me and my friends. You don’t know me, you don’t know them, you can’t know what we’ll do once we have our armor. You can speculate, but that’s all it is, speculation.

It sounds to me like the game and the community, in general, has moved away from what you want this game to be. That is sad, but Anet is going to cater to the majority, it’s simple business.

I am not going to bother replying to you any longer, as you seem unable to post your opinions, without providing anything of substance to the discussion. Your arguments all boil down to “Wah! I don’t want to have to raid for this set of Legendary armor and I don’t want to wait for another set!”, and to that, there can be no discussion, as it is straight up childish.

Let us also not forget that you can transfer worlds with gold. You don’t have to spend real world cash.

Jski.6180:

They did becuse it was too hard for pve players to get full map complestion what they ended up doing is letting eotm get the tokens they need for wepons.

So you admit that it wasn’t for Legendary weapons, but for PvE map completion? The tokens thing, is a thing of the past. If you want a Legendary weapon now, you have to do the Gift of Battle reward track, no way around it.

Jski.6180:

You are even if you do not intend to. Legendary armor is from raids and only ppl who do raids will get it. This means its not going to be for everyone else in the game THAT is what the argument is even if you do not like it.

Yep you are right, it isn’t going to be for everyone. That is why I am here, to try to keep it that way. I want more things in the game that require completing specific content in order to be able to obtain. That doesn’t mean I am trying to keep anyone else from getting it, just restricting the ways in which it can be obtained. As it is now, when you see someone in Legendary armor, you are going to know that they have done raids. Just like if someone has Ascension, you know they have PvP’d. Same for Ad Infinitum, you know that that person did/does Fractals.

Jski.6180:

Wvw players have pulled full 24hr days just for there world and yet anet has given them nothing to show for it.

This just seems unhealthy.

Again, I didn’t say WvW players shouldn’t have access to Legendary armor. I said that they shouldn’t have access to THIS set of Legendary armor. I can not make this any clearer.

Jski.6180:

There are some real dedicated players to there worlds and out side of one event (toxix tower) pve has nothing to do with there worlds. Its out right shameful how neglected these players are and how under rewarded they end up being even though they may play gw2 more then raiders.

I’m not arguing that Anet has neglected WvW, but that has nothing to do with Legendary armor. You could make a case that WvW should have gotten the first set, but they didn’t, so have to wait for next set, or raid.

Jski.6180:

Wvw are the true gw2 / gw1 players of this game raiders are just off brand WoW players.

This is purely opinion, and a rather negative one at that.

Jski.6180:

The fact that wvw players and spvp players cant get these legendary is cause for outrages.

Oh goodie, you are claiming a fact!

Fact: WvW and sPvP players can obtain all Legendary weapons, armor, and backpieces, all just by doing the content that is required for it, or for Gen 1 weapons, buying from the TP. If you don’t want to do the content required for it, you don’t get it. Pretty simple concept.

Fact: No one can obtain Legendary gear (with the exception of Gen 1 weapons, and even then the only way they can obtain by doing whatever they want, is if they straight up buy the completed product) by doing whatever they want. All new Legendary gear going forward, is going to be locked behind some content in the game, and rightfully so. It should show your dedication to that game mode, and be rewarded for it.

Jski.6180:

Why did they remove map compression from wvw for legendary weapons? Its the same thing but its in the pve (raids) side now why lock content off for what you say dose not mater combo wizes. If it realty was just about the skins then all this would be an non issues but its not and they locked it off with raids.
This is not a QoL this is pure power creep for raiders and nothing more.

They didn’t remove map completion from WvW for Legendary weapons, it was removed from WvW for PvE map completion. It never made sense to require map completion in WvW, for 100% PvE map completion.

Again, you do not know what power creep is, so please stop using the term.

Jski.6180:

I can tell your unaware of wvw and that takes a lot of your argument away your trying to dictate who should and who should not get gear in a type you do not play. I am saying if your going to add legendary armor to raids you need to add it to wvw and even spvp. As well as adding in back items and weapons for all points of the game. The skins can say raids only because wvw and spvp players do not care.

I am not trying to dictate who should and should not get gear. I am trying to make sure that gear is earned dependent on game mode. I never said wvw players shouldn’t have Legendary armor. I said that if they want THIS legendary armor set, they can do raids, and the rest of the PvE stuff that is require to be able to obtain it. I have also said that other legendary sets should be made for other game modes, they just need to make them (which means that they have to create the skins for it). WvW and PvP players might not care about having animated armor, and would just rather have a way to obtain their own version of Legendary armor, but it still has to be made.

Jski.6180:

You are asking for raiders and raider alone to get legendary armor a game type where you play for you self because of mass servers and pve lack worlds over all.

Where did I ask for raiders and raiders alone to get Legendary armor?

Jski.6180:

Wvw is about playing for a full world and to take legendary away from wvw players or not give them a means to get them when playing for there world and not for them self is beyond shameful on anet part and i think if you truly believe this is the way it should be shameful on yours.

Your problem here is that you are saying that WvW players do not have a means to obtain Legendary armor, and they do. Through Raids, same as everyone else. If they do not want to do Raids, but want the armor, they can pay for runs or wait for another set to be released.

The point is that it is a reward for completing specific content. There should be similar rewards for other things in the game. Unfortunately there isn’t, yet. However I believe that it will happen, in time. Maybe you are unwilling to wait, but that is more a personal problem than anything else.[/quote]

Jski.6180:

I am playing a staff ele healing (a bit odd but i like it) my boon duration is base 50% because of boon duration gear. Befor they added in that boon duration it was at best to have 40% if you went all in and gave up a lot for it.

This perfectly describes a situational aspect where it is better, but better does not mean stronger. Thank you for making my point.

Jski.6180:

Wvw is a waist land because of HoT combos.

Not sure how this is relevant to making a point about something being stronger or not. However I will say this, WvW is affected more by the e-specs that came with HoT (the actual powercreep that was introduced into this game), than by 4-stat combos.

Yes people with 4-stat combos will be better at some things, but they are not inherently better than any other choice.

Here’s an example that I hope will make it clear:

3 stat gear: 1+1+2=4
4 stat gear: 1+1+1+1=4

They both equal the exact same.

Jski.6180:

Now ppl want legendary armor so they do not even have to do any more content to get these effect worst yet many of them could be time gated that wvw players will have to wait months to get but raid players only need to raid for the best gear in the game? I am sry but that just going too far and is a major disrespectful to the GW2 player base.

Not sure how you know that people want legendary armor so they don’t have to do any more content, but this is just not true for me. I want legendary armor, but it’s because I do a lot of content and don’t want to have to carry multiple sets of gear.

It’s obvious you don’t like the time gate in crafting ascended gear, so try to get that changed. Otherwise, wait for the next Legendary armor set. If you don’t want to wait, nothing is preventing you or any wvw or pvp player from obtaining it.

Legendary armor is subjectively better, but only in so far as personal tastes and wanting the QoL features that come with it. Legendary armor is NOT objectively better than ascended.

Jski.6180:

And who to say what the next set combo expansion will bring will it be a 5 combo or even a super 1 and or 2 its realty can be any thing and they can add in any other type of effect like counter crit counter condi etc.. but wvw players will NEED to wait where raiders will have it and be at a blunt advantages all the time because of this gear set being raids only.

The only new stat set that I am unaware of WvW players not having easy access to, is Seraph stats, which came with the release of the Head of the Snake story update. You could make a case that it should be added to the Heroics Notary vendor, as should any new stat sets. Then WvW players won’t have to worry about waiting, they just buy the recipe that they want with their proofs of heroics.

And while I can’t be certain, I’m pretty sure PvE players didn’t have immediate access to the new HoT recipes when they first came out. Even legendary weapon owners had to wait for them to add to the drop downs.

Jski.6180:

LOL they are not subjective at all they are significantly stronger then the base combos. You realty do not understand wvw do you. Its ok but these combos are a lot stronger then the base and most ppl in wvw know it all too well. The fear is them adding in more types to get the pushing the power creep even higher and legendary will be at the for frond with out having to do any content to be so.

Ok, then if I don’t understand, please explain to me how they are stronger. I was able to provide an explanation as to how they weren’t stronger. I’ll even post again below just in case you missed it:

Fatalyz.7168:

They are not stronger. They don’t have any higher of a stat budget.

If they have the exact same stat budget as core gear, they literally can not be any stronger (they have the exact same amount of stat points). Again, they can be stronger in some situations, but again that is situational, not an across the board “stronger” as you are trying to portray.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

They make you not have to deal with time gate combos they do not make you need to do pve at all. They make it so you can test every thing with out giving up strong runes forever. You can always have the best build in the game with out giving any thing up.

And this is a bad thing, how?

Jski.6180:

Its proof anet is willing to add in combos that are stronger then the old and add in new effects to armor that add a lot to the power of one play type over others.

How are they stronger? Do they have more stat budget than gear that existed before them?

Quick answer: They aren’t, and they don’t. So, point in fact, they are not stronger.

What new effects to the armor are adding “a lot” to the power of one player over another?

Jski.6180:

At what point will they add the main crit dmg comb that they talked about when they nerf crit dmg? Do you have any ideal how much stronger power dmg would be if you have a main crit dmg and off power / persion? What if they add in a power only set for level 80 or healing or condi dmg or armor or something comply new that we cant images how it would changes up the game.

All new sets added to the game are for level 80, as it doesn’t really matter what you use while leveling up and there isn’t a need for these stats at sub-80. Mostly because 1-80 is super fast and easy, and never requires BiS gear.

As for what new stats could be or how they do it, everyone (that isn’t base game) will have access to those stats, some faster than others.

Jski.6180:

Legendary are a free pass type armor and better to have a means for every one to get not just one path.

So now we come to the meat of all of your complaints, you want to obtain legendary armor another way. There most likely (I’d estimate less than a 1% chance of it being changed) won’t be for this armor, however they may make a new set that is obtainable via other methods, so there is hope for that. We’ll just have to wait and see.

You realty don’t play wvw or spvp do you lol hot combos are much stronger then the stander adding in boon duration and condi duration on gear went well over the top.

They are not stronger. They don’t have any higher of a stat budget. They may be better, but that is subjective, and depends on the player and what they are trying to do. That does not make them “stronger”, it makes them situational. Also, boon duration and condi duration we knew was most likely coming, when they removed the stats for those from the traitlines.

Blaeys.3102:

The biggest and only real impact I could see them having on other areas of raid design would be freeing up the raid team to make the difficult levels of raiding much more difficult. They wouldn’t have to worry about having to water them down at all to ease people in or encourage them to start raiding.

You do want actually hard fights in your raids, right?

The only other real argument I could see would be that it would consume resources, but I think (please dont make me explain that “I think” means opinion again) that point is negated by the inclusion of challenge motes in the last wing. Again, simply transition those resources to the development of story motes or raid versions.

As the person that we were responding to mentioned, it could have an impact on the type of mechanics that are introduced. I don’t think any of know if this would really happen or not, but it is a concern.

I’m not really looking for harder fights. Honestly if I wanted “hard” raid fights, I would go to a game that caters to raiding. The fights that currently exist in game are challenging enough for a casual game. They aren’t hard, but they are challenging so that you can’t just snooze through them.

While yes, they could transition those resources over to creating the story mode, I don’t think it would be a good idea. I don’t think it would be a good idea, because it is entirely possible that making those challenge motes was the reason we had to wait 9 months between the release of Stronghold of the Faithful and Bastion of the Penitent. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to have to wait 9 months between raid releases, and think that the resources would be better spent refining the fights for each new release.

I think it is important to keep in mind that raids in this game are meant to provide a challenge, not primary story content. I would also rather not start seeing GW2 primary story content in raids.

Edit: I also don’t think that they were trying to water down bosses to help ease people into Raids, nor do I think they are too concerned about easing more people in, that is what they have said Fractals is for. I think that the skill level of GW2 players had increased significantly by the time BoP came out.

Jski.6180:

They make you not have to deal with time gate combos they do not make you need to do pve at all. They make it so you can test every thing with out giving up strong runes forever. You can always have the best build in the game with out giving any thing up.

And this is a bad thing, how?

Jski.6180:

Its proof anet is willing to add in combos that are stronger then the old and add in new effects to armor that add a lot to the power of one play type over others.

How are they stronger? Do they have more stat budget than gear that existed before them?

Quick answer: They aren’t, and they don’t. So, point in fact, they are not stronger.

What new effects to the armor are adding “a lot” to the power of one player over another?

Jski.6180:

At what point will they add the main crit dmg comb that they talked about when they nerf crit dmg? Do you have any ideal how much stronger power dmg would be if you have a main crit dmg and off power / persion? What if they add in a power only set for level 80 or healing or condi dmg or armor or something comply new that we cant images how it would changes up the game.

All new sets added to the game are for level 80, as it doesn’t really matter what you use while leveling up and there isn’t a need for these stats at sub-80. Mostly because 1-80 is super fast and easy, and never requires BiS gear.

As for what new stats could be or how they do it, everyone (that isn’t base game) will have access to those stats, some faster than others.

Jski.6180:

Legendary are a free pass type armor and better to have a means for every one to get not just one path.

So now we come to the meat of all of your complaints, you want to obtain legendary armor another way. There most likely (I’d estimate less than a 1% chance of it being changed) won’t be for this armor, however they may make a new set that is obtainable via other methods, so there is hope for that. We’ll just have to wait and see.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

Its called not letting ppl get a free ride. Legendary armor seems to be more of a time gated item set where weapons where more of a gold gated set. By making them have a means of needed to work for a new combo you keep them on par with other players progression.

Two things:
1) What is free about a 2500 gold set of armor?
2) Stat combos are not end game progression, I covered this already in my previous post to you. They maybe to YOU, but your opinion is not fact. Fact: End game progression in this game is around acquiring legendaries, Mastery progression, WvW rank progression, and sPvP skill levels.

I did horizontal progression is gw2 treadmill. You just do want what to here it is all. All games have some type of progression most of them are strong version of the gear but that not the only way to add in progression to a game.

Jski.6180:

It is power creep at its purest form. If they add in more combos like traibalzers or even 5 state combso or a super 1 combo you can for free and with out doing pve content get these effect right as they are added to the game.

So i am suggestion make legendary armor and wepon need to have content to unlock there new combos any thing beyond that they are going to brake most raiders players need to keep playing AND make raider better then every one else in wvw setting.

You apparently do not know what power creep is. Power creep completely invalidates what came before it, kinda like the elite specs did for more core specs.

Why does Legendary tier gear need to have an unlock for new stat combos? So someone just spent an inordinate amount of time and money on making something, and you are now trying to tell them that they should need to spend more time and money on it. That is a terrible suggestion. You are trying to invalidate the work, time, and money that someone spent, just because you feel it isn’t fair, which is so wrong.

Btw, where are your facts, proof, or evidence?

Ppl can spend there money how they pleases but it should never give you an advantages over other ppl. Relay it should be a skin and effects only it should do nothing for combos and how strong you are.

Trailblazer and over all 4 combo is prof. You know just keep asking dose not make your argument any stronger.

The only advantages it gives you are QoL advantages.
1) Stat-swapping out of combat
2) Never have to make a higher tier weapon, the stats will always be at the best in the game.
3) New stats as they are added to the drop down (as of HoT, that wasn’t always available same day on weapons, so this may have changed)

It does NOT provide a power increase, as people in ascended are at the same power level.

You not providing proof, facts, or evidence does not make a case for your “complaints” or lend any weight to your “opinions”, so yes I am asking for those things. Otherwise, again you aren’t here for a discussion.

Trailblazer and 4 stat gear is proof of what, exactly?

Jski.6180:

Ashen.2907:

Jski.6180:

That is still silly and very classes you could have ppl move from a cook to a person working in a hospital its just an issue of training. Its not like they are a lesser human because they work as a cook (mind you most hospital have cooks and work for that hospital what you feed your charge is very important to the healing process and thinking like that will keep a lot of advantages in medical science from happening.)

Raids are the anty gw2 and are over all the smallest population of gw2. So this is a real take over a ku as it where that Anet is doing that is going to effect every one in gw2 from here on out and make GW2 into that stander treadmill mmorpg. If that what you want there WoW and you will get a lot more out of it.

I am not sure where you got the idea of classes (or classism?) in a hospital staff education/licensing comparison. I certainly made no reference to a cook being a lesser person than a nurse. That is a point fomented entirely in your mind, not mine.

What I did say is that its not just a matter of cross-training. A nurse, at least where I live, must attend an accredited nursing school and then become licensed by the state before being allowed to legally perform the duties of a nurse.

Some cross-training is not going to turn a concept artist, or terrain artist, or whatever the title is for the guy who designs the look of a sword in a fantasy RPG into a programmer or game design expert. It takes years of education, in general, to be a competent programmer. Thats not something that you learn watching over Joe the coder’s shoulder in between your own projects.

Lets turn this around, do you think that the average computer programmer could become a skilled professional artist with a little bit of cross training? I have tried to teach others to draw and paint. Its not just a matter of a little cross-training.

Classism was what i was going for and it is. Ppl are very able to train to work as needed in each department less so when it comes to programing (i images ppl who do designee for armor needs to know a bit about programing so they understand what they can and cant do.)

If you are hiring a programmer, you hire them to program. If you are hiring an artist, you hire them to draw or do artsy stuff. Cross-training starts watering down talent. Yes you could hire programmers that are also artists (and vice versa), but you might spend more time and money looking for those people, than just hiring two people to do two separate jobs (which makes the most sense from a business standpoint).

Also, just because someone can start learning to do something else in another department, doesn’t mean that they will be very good at it. It’s a chance you take, that’s why people hire for specific roles.

Jski.6180:

Its called not letting ppl get a free ride. Legendary armor seems to be more of a time gated item set where weapons where more of a gold gated set. By making them have a means of needed to work for a new combo you keep them on par with other players progression.

Two things:
1) What is free about a 2500 gold set of armor?
2) Stat combos are not end game progression, I covered this already in my previous post to you. They maybe to YOU, but your opinion is not fact. Fact: End game progression in this game is around acquiring legendaries, Mastery progression, WvW rank progression, and sPvP skill levels.

I did horizontal progression is gw2 treadmill. You just do want what to here it is all. All games have some type of progression most of them are strong version of the gear but that not the only way to add in progression to a game.

Jski.6180:

It is power creep at its purest form. If they add in more combos like traibalzers or even 5 state combso or a super 1 combo you can for free and with out doing pve content get these effect right as they are added to the game.

So i am suggestion make legendary armor and wepon need to have content to unlock there new combos any thing beyond that they are going to brake most raiders players need to keep playing AND make raider better then every one else in wvw setting.

You apparently do not know what power creep is. Power creep completely invalidates what came before it, kinda like the elite specs did for more core specs.

Why does Legendary tier gear need to have an unlock for new stat combos? So someone just spent an inordinate amount of time and money on making something, and you are now trying to tell them that they should need to spend more time and money on it. That is a terrible suggestion. You are trying to invalidate the work, time, and money that someone spent, just because you feel it isn’t fair, which is so wrong.

Btw, where are your facts, proof, or evidence?

Jski.6180:

Yes unless they unlock it though buying the expatiation and or getting the inscription and letting the item “eat” it.

Not sure what you are trying to get at here, not gonna touch it.

Jski.6180:

But there no reason for them to raid any more once they have every thing. Right now the drive is to get legendary armor it has been from the start of raids realty the start of 4 years ago when they first talked about it. Most ppl who play raid game quit with in thoughts 4 years because gw2 did not have something to keep them going.

That is your opinion that there won’t be any reason for them to raid any longer.

I can provide some evidence that this statement is incorrect. Did people stop playing dungeons once they had all of the skins unlocked from it, or did they keep playing? A lot of people kept playing them, and playing them, and playing them.

So in short, no, people will not stop playing raids just because they have Legendary armor. Some will, it’s to be expected, simply because they did raids only to obtain the armor. People that enjoy raids, will keep on playing them whether they have the armor or not.

BTW, are you not able to provide any kind of proof, evidence, or even facts to back up any of your claims? I ask this because you STILL haven’t provided any. You keep going from one claim to another, and I’ve asked for proof, evidence, or even facts about your claims, and you have yet to deliver. I’m beginning to think you aren’t here for a discussion at all, but rather to just complain.

Jski.6180:

Fatalyz.7168:

Jski.6180:

So this is a real take over a ku as it where that Anet is doing that is going to effect every one in gw2 from here on out and make GW2 into that stander treadmill mmorpg.

Do you have any proof that this game is going to have a gear treadmill or are you just stating your (incorrect) opinion again?

It appears that you have a lot of opinions, but no facts or proof to back them up. Please get some proof or evidence, and then a discussion can be had. With what you post, there really isn’t room for a discussion.

Yes because gw2 is a horizontal progression game the treadmill is the ability to get new combos. So as they add in more combos to gw2 you get them first as a legendary owner. Its what you would call a power creep to the max. Unless they lock these legendary to a set combo chose because its going to be a pain once they add in expatiation and ppl with these sets do not buy the expansion because they already have the combo.

The best way to find out, would be to have someone who doesn’t own HoT, but owns a Legendary Weapon. Does that weapon have HoT stats or not?

Having first access to new stats (not higher stats, just different combos) is not Power creep.

Also, the treadmill in this game is not about the new stats, it’s the mastery system for pve, the WvW Rank and Abilities, and for sPvP it’s about getting better at your profession. Yes, new stats can be stronger (looking at Viper’s, Minstel’s, and Commander’s), but this is balanced by the fact that when new stats are introduced, you don’t have to go create a whole new set of ascended armor (exotic, you do, but that is so MUCH cheaper as to not even be a valid comparison, plus they aren’t on the same level stat-wise as ascended and legendary), you only have to create the insignia or inscription to throw into the forge with the item you want to change stats on and a couple of other items.

Most people will most likely buy the new expansion pack for the new elite specs. PvE players will buy it because it continues the story and should add a significant amount of new content.

Btw, you still didn’t bring any facts, proof, or evidence to your post, just more of your opinion.