Guild Wars 2

Mourningcry.9428:

Is that such an unreasonable request?

Is asking for more in depth detail an unreasonable request? Well no, clearly not although I would point out that throwing random numbers about (pardon the pun) is not the greatest idea in the world.

Switching model from RNG to fixed (as many as suggesting) is clearly going to involve delicate balancing and could potentially lead to a reduction in income due to the reasons stated in the example you quoted. However, the question is would said potential reduction in income make the game suddenly unviable? Are people suggesting that RNG centric cash shops are the only method of making a profit?

The company/ies involved will have sat down at the beginning of the project and looked at what they already had experience in (in terms of revenue generation models), where they thought the industry was going and which model would generate the most cash for them. As any good company would.

Now the system they have in place may generate the very best bottom line for ANET, great! That though does not mean that it is the best system for the consumer. And no, before anyone goes there, squeezing an additonal n% out of the consumer does not always equate to an additonal n% of quality or content back to the consumer.

Some people are not getting their knickers in a twist because a company is making money, they are getting their knickers in a twist because they perceive that the company is utilizing a model which is there purely to squeeze every single last drop out of them, when there are potentially alternative systems which would be far more “open” to the customer whilst at the same time still being viable for the company.

Mourningcry.9428:

Sleepless.1906:

Several alternatives have been mentioned during the duration of the thread, if you read the whole thing.

And to add one more… I don’t mind paying sub fees at all.

I’m very excited about both WildStar and ESO and both companies have said that they’re considering sticking to the sub model. And you know what? I hope they do.

I did read the whole thread. All I saw were a few off the cuff suggestions. Not a shred of analysis. This doesn’t necessarily invalidate them, however, they’re far from convincing. And I’ve actually refuted similar suggestions else where, and don’t see the need to have do so again.

However, I will say the sub-model, while viable, was likely considered, and from their analysis , was determined to be inferior to their current model. And I too, have no issues with that model, for whatever that’s worth.

You don’t have to run 8 year financial forecasts to realise that there are alternatives to funding a game other than through RNG cash shop.

If though you have refuted all of these alternatives already whilst going on about analysis, well one assumes you have run the numbers yourself. Could you perhaps provide your growth/performance forecast comparisons for us?

Excellent OP and I agree pretty much completely.

The current system is appalling from a consumer side point of view and it will no doubt only become more prevalent and all intrusive in the coming weeks/months.

EDIT -

I see someone is asking for alternatives. There are clearly alternatives and several have been mentioned. But let’s face facts here, if the team sat down at the beginning of the project and could only see screwing people via RNG as a viable way of keeping the game alive, well to be brutally honest perhaps it should be allowed to die on it’s backside.

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Kichwas.7152:

Miss Pink Floyd.9730:

They seem to do the exact opposite of what the players want.

I’ve been reaching the opposite conclusion from you. IMO they are doing what players I know want.

Whack in temporary content and break Orr. Not sure many players would have had that top of their wanted list in all honesty..

Each pillar of the game has major, major fundamental issues at the moment. ANET is doing little to nothing to address these and is instead papering over the cracks with temporary content and shinies. Which in fairness seems to be distracting a few players.

I don’t think Orr was “broken” unintetionally. I think Orr was broken as it was, because people just stayed there all the time and did nothing else. That wasn’t good for the game anyway. It certainly ruined Orr for me when I first got there. I don’t want to be in a mob of a zillion people trying to tag as many things as I can to get event credit. It’s not my scene. And it’s very likely not the scene Anet envisioned.

Anet is making changes to get less people to do these events. If that’s working, Anet has been successful in that attempt.

Orr shouldn’t be the only part of this game people do. By taking away its profitability, Anet is making a positive change in the game over all…even if some people are unhappy with it, and even if some people leave over it.

No, what they did is essentially break Orr and it amazes me that anyone would try and defend it.

If you want to promote people going around and doing other things, you make other things viable and interesting. What you don’t do is have a culling system in place and then add in instagib mobs and wraiths which can down entire groups.

If anyone is advocating “hurr 28k chicken egg plox!!” as a viable design approach for a developer trying to promote players to move on to other things, then it is astounding really.

You could have two sandpits, one is full of toys and interesting objects, the other is empty. Subsequently all the children play in the sandpit full of toys. If you want kids to go to the other sandpit, you fill it with toys and interesting objects. What does ANET do? Well they leave the other sandpit empty and instead stick a landmine in the full one. Great approach!

I would hope that it is in fact bugged/broken. Which given it has yet to be fixed is almost as bad as it being intentional, as it demonstrates quite a significant level of incompetence.

What ANET envisioned btw? Maybe they just envisioned CoF speed runs.

Kichwas.7152:

Miss Pink Floyd.9730:

They seem to do the exact opposite of what the players want.

I’ve been reaching the opposite conclusion from you. IMO they are doing what players I know want.

Whack in temporary content and break Orr. Not sure many players would have had that top of their wanted list in all honesty..

Each pillar of the game has major, major fundamental issues at the moment. ANET is doing little to nothing to address these and is instead papering over the cracks with temporary content and shinies. Which in fairness seems to be distracting a few players.

Mackdose.6504:

killcannon.2576:

Putting those clumps of however many people back into the world would be a great first step.

You’ve said this countless times.

How would you go about doing this? If it was as easy as you’re implying, it would be done already. Problem is, as much as you blame the mechanics of the game, it’s a player problem.

Players will always tunnel vision the easiest rewards for their time.

So then, instead of stating a nebulous idea, let’s discuss possible solutions.

Increasing the quality of the loot in Orr would be a start. Having vets and champs (which can invisible 1 shot entire groups due to culling and broken scaling) drop porous bones and other kitten is not a great situation to be in.

EndoChronik.3507:

In this case I was reading graphs and predicting patterns of the item just like I’d do to a stock. If done in game, I do believe you could even pick up on certain patterns you’ve never come across before simply because you’re working with a more simple instrument so signals are more obvious.
This could then change the way you treat and observe certain stocks in the real world.

I would be very, very wary of people taking “chart patterns” they have learned from a video game and applying that knowledge to any real trading (although it is probably less potentially damaging than the kitten you see on the FX snake oil sales sites prevalent all over the web).

I am sure you have a strong, fundamental, knowledge of the assets you trade and how the market participants trading said assets will react to any given event. Reading the “charts” then may give you additional “insight” into possible entry/exit points.

But for the main part, single asset financial time series are non stationary, non normally distributed and follow random/quasi random walks, albeit sometimes with a stochastic term/drift (think GBM or Ornstein-Uhlenbeck type processes as a close(ish) proxy). As such “chart patterns” are about as statistically significant as throwing darts at a graph of a stock and buying it at the price you hit.

Ran it in a random pug as full on lolzerker (never the best idea) and aside from one or two wipes at the end it went pretty smoothly.

As someone who has traditionally been “about teh pvp” I would consider myself a pretty poor dungeon runner and it seemed fairly easy if I am being honest.

Sure why not.

Mirta.5029:

Fenrir.3609:

If the value in T6 mats (or anything else) dropped due to increased supply, then the value of the items that T6 mats are used to craft would also drop. Ergo any income the “normal” player would have lost from the reduction in price of the mats, would be offset by the fact that the stuff he wants to buy has also decreased in price.

Personally I am not fussed with them keeping DR or getting rid of it. What I would like to see though is an improvement in the loot you get from champions and veterans.

when the game just opened and prices of expensive mats were down, because of no DR and first people hitting level 80, most people not farming could not afford stuff, because exotic prices were still held up.

I was here from day one (well from before then technically with pre purchase) and I had full exo within a few days of hitting 80 (and no I wasn’t an avid farmer it is a cake walk to master crafting in this game, i’m sure even your “normals” can do it).

If there was any discrepancy between crafting mat value and exotic sale value in the early days, it would have possibly been due to a combination of limited supply of ectos, people only just turning out exotic stuff (so it was rarer) and the market not being as efficient as it is now due to being in a fledging state.

It is unlikely in the extreme that a removal of DR (and subsequent drop in T6 mat costs) is going to see “normal” players unable to fund or gain exotic gear. Again i’ll reiterate I think that increasing the quality of the loot dropped from more difficult encounters is the way to go as opposed to removing DR. But the whole sky is falling scenario with regards to people not being able to buy exotics if T6 prices dropped seems to be totally incorrect.

Mirta.5029:

Phaedryn.3698:

Not really. I would bring some life back into the game. Not to mention rejivinate dead zones. Or, I guess, players can just continue to do the chest farming and ignore the rest of the open world content, as they have been for quite a while now. There is a reason the boss/event timer websites exits you know, and it isn’t to fullfil you idea of complete gameplay. But sure, ANet can go ahead down this road. It isn’t as if many haven’t already left the game…oh, wait…they have.

because you know, we totally don’t see them expanding servers and hiring more personal, oh wait, we are.
It would allow easier botting, would decrease mat prices into infinity (see mat prices for mitril/silk. Mithril and silk are easy to get. You can’t profit by selling them. What do you think would happen if tier 6 would lose its value?) and would make it harder for players that want to legitimately play the game instead of standing there repeatedly killing mobs. Plenty of old MMOs will allow you to do so. Go and do so there. Don’t ruin the one of those new rare MMOs that don’t like farming please.

If the value in T6 mats (or anything else) dropped due to increased supply, then the value of the items that T6 mats are used to craft would also drop. Ergo any income the “normal” player would have lost from the reduction in price of the mats, would be offset by the fact that the stuff he wants to buy has also decreased in price.

Personally I am not fussed with them keeping DR or getting rid of it. What I would like to see though is an improvement in the loot you get from champions and veterans.

For warriors it does make a difference actually. Warrior having the highest base stats, and wearing heavy armor. Adding toughness and defense traits, brings a warriors armor up high enough they can mitigate quite a bit of damage. With our High HP pools that means If you get hit you will not die. If there is enough party healing going on with enough toughness warrior can face tank in dungeons no problem. This isnt the case with zerkers.

Yes there are some dungeon mobs whos spike damage is very high, and even with 3k armor there is no way you can survive without dodging and kiting. But again if you get hit your not going to go down. With a zerker you are certainly going to take a dirt nap. And this helps the party how?

The difference between a Knights set with ruby and a zerk set with ruby is around 10% mitigation and 3k health. Not to be sniffed at by any means, but if you get hit with a spike you are still eating the dirt. If you are getting hammered by mobs with no party healing then you are likewise hitting the dirt.

I can fully understand the approach if you are also traiting/speccing more defense/group (although it has to be said, why would you when a guardian seems a better choice for that style). But going the zerker build route (which I assumed the OP was doing), using orbs and just chucking in Knights instead of the full zerk seems a bit pointless.

Having said that I could well be wrong :p

ColinJohanson.2394:

We looked into this specific spot and it looks like some of our bosses aren’t scaling properly. We’ve got our QA team investigating to figure out what’s going on here, it’s limited to relatively few spots.

It’s nice to see a response but by “specific spot” I take it you mean pretty much all of Orr.

People have been pointing out the issues for the best part of a week (if not more) in the Dynamic Events section of the forums (multiple threads with zero dev response).

We all understand the issues that can arise and the difficulty in getting it right, but the whole scenario here has been pretty poor to be honest.

for the rest….
I can t really discuss with someone thinking that is better UP in PvP and OP in PvE rather than balanced in both :|..

I just hope warrior will be the worst in PvE and the best in PvP one day….

Looks like you are going with a straw man there as no one has suggested that, if they have and i’ve missed it then it is certainly not the case I am advocating at all.

Warlord.9074 – When you go zerker you are trading basically a few crit power for a ton of defense.

Are you? The difference between knights and zerkers is not going to make much difference at all against high end spike damage. It will make a difference if you are getting mashed by adds but if you are getting mashed by adds then you are going down without support anyway.

I suppose it really depends on the group.

Time in PvE = winning…

In speed runs. Wowser. And yes speed run groups are a specific fraction of the game.

I DO…..

Well that’s something I guess…

Who cares?
if something is OP in PvP, PvE and WWW players don t care at all….how is that a good reason?

People who don’t have a totally myopic viewpoint “care”. It also goes to show that the whole “warriors are golden haired child” viewpoint is utter bunkum.

my motto since months is GW2=guardian and warriors 2….they are both Beyond broksn (in an OP sense) in pve.

Broken would be taking the class which pretty much only offers high pve damage and then nerfing it without bringing it into line in terms of everything else.

That is the point…..MOST players don t play PvP.

You should check last report about population….
PvP is a tiny fraction of pve-www population.

So? As long as ANET are offering multiple game play forms and as long as they are trying to balance across these forms. Well it does matter regardless as to whether three people pvp or three thousand pvp.

Seems you don play much PvE……thus you don t know the reason why anything but zerker doesn t exists in PVE.

p.S. look for any advanced dungeon guide to see how all you need is DPS and WHY

I know exactly why. Those dungeon videos are cool, the ones of thieves soloing them is awesome given, you know, how only guardians and warriors can hope to survive and all that…

The major issues in terms of “balance” in this game come from the lack of skill set split between pve/wvw and spvp. That combined with the fact that ANET also currently don’t seem to be able to balance between build types due to the way combat is handled (which is a microcosm for why zerker gear is optimal in alot of cases).

Until they fully split up the skill sets and balance out builds, well you have to look at any notion of “balance” across the full spectrum of gameplay features as it stands and in that case warrior is far from the “golden haired child” some try to make it out to be (more often than not because they seemingly get their kittens in a twist over dungeon speed run groups).

LordByron.8369:

Fenrir.3609:

Namu.5712:

uhhhhh the warrior is clearly the golden child profession in this game. No doubt there.

Yeah they are just so OP in pvp it is unfair!

1 post Worth more than 1000 words:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Team-Eu-1

3 wars 1 guard and 1 mesmer (i still don t get what mesmer has today with iZerker bugged and TW nerfed….)

I d gladly be the worst in PvP with one of preofession i like just to be as OP as war in PvE and still very strong in WWW.

One post which means absolutely diddly squat quite frankly.

They are asking for specific speed run teams, you will note that Guardians and Mesmers are also in there. How about moaning about them? Especially given that both classes are also very, very good in both forms of pvp (unlike warrior).

Guardians – Faceroll pve… check. Used in speed run/high end pve groups… check. Top tier in wvw and spvp… check. “nerf the warriors!!!!!”.

I wouldn’t be happy with it being the worst in pvp (which they are) to do more damage in pve, nor would anyone else with a modicum of interest in pvp (a crowd this game purports to be after).

A “golden child” profession would not be a one trick pony and would not suck plums in a major aspect of the game (pvp).

Deriving your notion of “balance” or whether a class is the “golden child” of the developer from it’s use in highly specific, dungeon speed run teams, whilst disregarding everything else is clearly fundamentally flawed.

Namu.5712:

uhhhhh the warrior is clearly the golden child profession in this game. No doubt there.

Yeah they are just so OP in pvp it is unfair!

Ruby orbs on zerkers imo.

Regardless as to whether you are wearing zerk or knights, massive spike damage from high end mobs is going to drop you if you fail to dodge it/trait optimally or use timed skills/other group member skills. So you may as well squeeze out the extra dps.

I’m also not at all convinced the “role” in most dungeon runs is to be the “tank” or the “off tank” at all. But I guess it depends on what groups you are running in and which playstyle you are more comfortable with/used to.

At the end of the day, might be best to try both and see which you have the most success with. If you are getting scraped off the ground every five seconds and switching to knights suddenly massively increases your survivability (I can’t see it at all but you never know), well then it is obviously worth switching.

apt.9184:

Fenrir.3609:

apt.9184:

EvilSardine.9635:

apt.9184:

Guys try stun build I am not going to tell u guys the build cause I don’t want everyone running it but its really nice spec. I can beat top eles and guards with it and if I can pull of stuns right I can beat mesmers before they even do kitten. But it takes a lot of practice. I have been playing it for 2 months or so and still have not mastered but once I do this kitten people. Necros are only pain in kitten because they can corrupt boon cause I run all lysaa. But still I make sure to run signet of stamina just for that.

lol. Every serious PvPer runs stability. Stuns would only work against bad players.

LOL dude so what happens when stability runs out? By the time I am done blocking and avoiding his attacks his stability is down (excluding rangers). You can’t just say they need buff if you legitimately have not played around with every weapon and tried different builds extensively. Although a trait that gives protection on dodge and a trait that removes conditions periodically would be nice

Can we see a video of this in action?

Yea no problem man I will record I 1v1 today of the properly executed stun combo.
(just won’t be in great quality :P)

That’s very kind, any chance you could do it from a team/tourny/match play perspective instead of a 1v1?

It’s just that a selected 1v1 where a stun/burst combo comes off wouldn’t really show much in terms of viability.

If not, I look forward to the video anyway

apt.9184:

EvilSardine.9635:

apt.9184:

Guys try stun build I am not going to tell u guys the build cause I don’t want everyone running it but its really nice spec. I can beat top eles and guards with it and if I can pull of stuns right I can beat mesmers before they even do kitten. But it takes a lot of practice. I have been playing it for 2 months or so and still have not mastered but once I do this kitten people. Necros are only pain in kitten because they can corrupt boon cause I run all lysaa. But still I make sure to run signet of stamina just for that.

lol. Every serious PvPer runs stability. Stuns would only work against bad players.

LOL dude so what happens when stability runs out? By the time I am done blocking and avoiding his attacks his stability is down (excluding rangers). You can’t just say they need buff if you legitimately have not played around with every weapon and tried different builds extensively. Although a trait that gives protection on dodge and a trait that removes conditions periodically would be nice

Can we see a video of this in action?

LordByron.8369 wrote – i’ll just stop here.

If only you had.

Elbegast.6970:

Fenrir.3609:

Elbegast.6970:

interpol.2397:

Elbegast.6970:

Lil Green Dragn.8049:

Elbegast.6970:

HotHit.6783:

Elbegast.6970:

An hour for a measly 100g? Doesn’t seem worth it….unless there’s something I’m missing.

I suppose you have a faster way to make gold? ‘Cause I’d say this is a really good way to spend your karma.

Yeah, I have a faster way….go out and kill stuff. I got more gold and karma than I know what to do with. Gold is useless. Karma is useless. Only thing worth anything is Laurels and it’s just a headache farming those.

You are trolling right? There’s no way you can get more than (or close to) 100g for an hour of killing mobs.

Do you even craft? If you aren’t making 100g+/hour, you aren’t trying. I’m baffled by people who seem to be perpetually broke in a game that hands out copper and loot with every other kill.

You’re either trolling, or misunderstanding. They’re not talking about copper or silver, they’re talking about gold. 1g=100s=10 000c
You cannot make 100g an hour in GW2 by killing mobs, even if you farmed them so hard that you had blood shooting from your tearducts.

Yes you can. You just have to be smart. You don’t make gold by spending it. If you are trying to make gold but buying things on the Trading Co., you are doing it wrong. The Black Lion Trading Company is there to make you money at the expense of the players with questionable intelligence. Mobs are there to provide you with items to place on the Trading Co. If you want to make gold, get to killing/crafting and stop your spending.

So you make 100g per hour consistently, hour after hour, farming mobs and selling the resultant items you have looted/salvaged/crafted from the drops on the TP? I don’t think so.

No, not ‘hour after hour’. I make 100g or more in ~hour (more or less), only when I feel like farming. I don’t farm for gold 24/7 or anything like that.

Another tip: Sell Guild Bounty locations during your farming runs and questing forays. Some guilds will pay 10g or more for current GB locations.

Some people just have no business sense. Opportunities abound in GW2. You just have to learn to recognize them.

You are not going to be making 100g in an hour or less (as and when you feel like it) from loot drops and what you can do with them, unless you happen to score a precursor or something daft like that, i.e. fluke out and do something that is not consistently repeatable and is as such statistically insignificant.

Selling guild bounty locations is irrelevant in response to my post. I questioned your ability to make the figures you are suggesting from farming mobs and selling the results on the TP, not from extraneous activities. You could make 500g per hour selling “adult chat” for all I know/care, but it wouldn’t be pertinent to the doubts I raised about your initial claim.

Opportunities no doubt abound, that is not what I called into question though is it. I stated that it was highly unlikely that you are making 100g per hour from farming mobs and selling the results on the TP. Unless ofc you are botting or running a sweat shop of players somewhere.

Going about decrying peoples business savvy (or perceived lack of it), when you have no idea as to what they do (ig or otherwise) will not make anyone take you seriously.

Because they want people to sPvP and a great reason many don’t (or have tried and given up on it), is because the balance and core fundamentals are kitten.

Zenith.7301:

Fenrir.3609:

Berzerker gear stats just need to be nerfed. Warrior and thief damage in pve needs to be brought in line with other classes — the problem is warriors and thieves burst and sustain too well and it makes boss fights extremely short.

Warriors are the lame duck in pvp, if you nerf their damage down in pve (which is pretty much all they have), then you are going to have to significantly buff their non burst specs first.

The damage split nerf comes for PvE. Done.

You mean warrior would then be done and by done I mean finished.

If warriors put out the same damage as every other class, why would someone take a warrior over another class which does equivalent damage and can also provide greater range, or greater utility, or greater cleansing, or greater support or greater mobility?

Again, warriors have to deal the short end of the stick in pvp. Now people are suggesting nerfing them in pve without buffing their other specs?

The correct way to go about balancing this game is to greatly split up the skills and traits between pve/wvw and spvp (not simply tweaking numbers, having different actual skill set ups). Combined with buffing the currently non viable specs for each class.

You clearly don’t nerf the only viable spec of a class and then do nothing about the fact that said class has zero other competitive/viable specs.

@LordByron – The funny thing is, there is no pvp balance whatsoever.

Berzerker gear stats just need to be nerfed. Warrior and thief damage in pve needs to be brought in line with other classes — the problem is warriors and thieves burst and sustain too well and it makes boss fights extremely short.

Warriors are the lame duck in pvp, if you nerf their damage down in pve (which is pretty much all they have), then you are going to have to significantly buff their non burst specs first.

Personal dps meters and other statistical tools would be nice.

but if you just play the game instead of focusing on getting mats, you’ll get those mats eventually. How is it grind intensive if you can get them without grinding? It would be the same as saying that you have to grind to get money, even though you can get money in different ways, however because it’s possible trough grinding this game is pro grinding, even though the developers even told you not to farm.

I’ve pointed out why the current method is flawed, why it doesn’t fall in line with a “no grind/farm” ethos and why it promotes farming. I would imagine any rational person (and no I am not at all insinuating that you are not rational) should see how the system promotes grinding by the way it is set up.

Again, “you don’t have to worry about it” really doesn’t stand up as a viable, constructive counter argument when debating mechanics. I don’t worry about it, I couldn’t care less in all honesty, but I think it is perfectly clear that the system is flawed and that the whole farm/don’t farm model of the game is all over the place at the moment.

They put out what for many are seen as highly desirable, apex/endgame skins. To get said skins doesn’t involve epic quests et al, it involves getting an inordinate amount of base level crafting materials you can loot off trash mobs, as well as a healthy dose of RNG loot. If you cannot see how that isn’t farm promoting then I am amazed.

1. Questiline with updates would make sure that nobody can get the legendaries for years. Let’s say they changed it now. Do we just take the legendaries off the people that already worked hard to get them? Or do we punish new players only?
2. Getting a precursor of a dungeon would look kind of silly as well. Someone got really lucky before, either that or payed 600 gold and then suddenly “finish a dungeon and you get a precursor! Precursors for everyone! Yaaaay!”. You would be pumping too many precursors out into the game at that point.

1. I thought you said it should take ages? I am merely pointing out that the system is inherently flawed given the whole “don’t farm/grind” point of view and that the CoF/fractal situation is out of whack given said point of view. It could have been, and for future items, should be done (much) better.

Quite where you are getting I suggest take legendaries off people I am not sure.

2. Getting a precursor, from a one off Living Story dungeon, only if you had “been there and done that” at previous, evolving Living Story dungeons would seem somewhat less stupid than the current dump kitten in the mystic toilet gogogo system in all fairness. You also seem to be using “people who spent 600g would be upset if the system changes” as a defence of the mechanics of a system? I do hope you see the flaw in that thinking. It may well be difficult to find a balance when improving the system, that doesn’t mean the system at the moment is not rubbish… which it clearly is. The whole possible scavanger hunt thing also seems to suggest that ANET themselves realise that they have dropped the ball big time (but ofc they wont actually resolve it until people have had plenty of time to flush their kitten down the toilet and hopefully buy more gems for gold to fund said enterprise).

I’ve seen people do dailies. I have not seen anyone going on a multiple fractal runs in the same day. They’re actually harder that CoF. Especially when you hit level 20 and above. Plus it takes too long for farmers to actually want to farm it.

I’m pretty sure people are/have been farming them (not to the same extent as CoF ofc), but I can only offer anecdotal evidence so I will bow to your superior knowledge on this one.

I’m not saying that the current set up is good. I’m saying that a) how to change it and what to change it to would be a complicated matter, therefore just using this one might be better for the game b) you can get the mats without farming, therefore it can go in line with the no farming policy.

A. I’m glad you are not saying the system is good, because it clearly isn’t. Changing it no doubt would be complicated I agree.
B. Again, it is the fact it is mat intensive which promotes the farm in the first place. See the opening of my response and most of my previous posts in this thread as to exactly why. The current system does not fit in with a no farming policy at all.

NDHWAR.4853:

kagemitsu.3657:

You should challenge the top Warriors, cuz I don’t think ANet employees play their game.

If they do, they don’t play warrior.

They do, he runs a 5 signet build in spvp…..

ib4 necro

Any of the higher populated servers should be able to meet someones pve needs.

Viz dominates EU T1 wvw because it is able to put out vast numbers on a consistent basis in comparison to any other server (fair play to them). “Best” is subjective, but they are certainly by far the dominant server it seems.

I would imagine that the majority of the major guilds there are going to be predominantly french speaking (but that is conjecture on my part). Perhaps guesting or rolling a test toon on that server would be an idea?

There are videos of thieves soloing dungeons. There are thieves doing just fine running about Orr. Thieves seem in a relatively good place in both forms pvp.

Warriors on the other hand have pretty much one viable spec, face melt for pve and er that’s it.

There are certainly balance issues though in general, one of the primary reasons for this is that skills and builds are shared between pve/wvw and spvp.

Mirta.5029: But it is optional. /snip.

The issue is that the method of getting these legendaries is a system which seemingly promotes material farming and RNG. It is a system specifically set up which makes you look at it and think “I can/am meant to farm that”. It is not an epic storyline that only 10% would manage to complete. It is not hard content, it is not interesting content, it is farming mats and dumping stuff into the toilet. When you combine that with the “oh you’re not supposed to farm guys” line then it is a joke quite frankly.

Play this mmo for years and get stuff? Awesome, it is questionable given the current mmo environ whether the game will still be here in several years, even more questionable if it will have an active playerbase. Potentially getting a legendary et al after years would be fine IF the path to it was not seemingly utterly grind/farm intensive. Special dungeons, new content and quests over years? Cool. Farm mats? Nope.

The flaw is not that people want a legendary in weeks or months, it is the whole process is set up in a farm like manner.

How does it promote grinding? You chose to grind, because you want the item now.

You don’t see how having the process require a morass of mats you get from potentially farmed mobs isn’t something that would promote farming?

I already asked this – how will you make a questline so long and hard that only 10% of all players would ever have a chance to finish it? How long would it even take to create a 100 hour, 200 hour quest line? Years?

You make the quest over time with new updates. Something that gives more meaning to the living story stuff. It doesn’t even have to be a quest line, there are plenty of alternatives (one off events, new dungeons, more wvw stuff). Something that get’s people actively looking forward to what’s coming up in the next bit of dynamic content.

Nope, not really.

You think people are not farming fractals at all?

There was a topic about nerfing CoF that the developers answered to. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Revamp-Cof-dungeons-and-remove-boulders-trap/first#post1799043 it will at least be revamped.

Cooming soon tm, possibly, er perhaps. Well that’s alright then.

There are 12 main meta events and maybe about 8 extra that give dailies and chests. That’s at least 20 yellows. You don’t get the guaranteed yellow if you repeat it on a different characters, but you still get a chest that will most likely feature at least one yellow. You don’t even need to loop, you can just end up on a nice chain of 6-7 events going okittenmilar time and get some fast yellows.

And running though the same 12 (timer specific) events every day specifically for rares to either ecto, sell or dump into the toilet is a farm. Again it is why the loot drop limit was applied.

And why the hell would you do that? You sell the upgrade components or the exotics themselves, save up and buy the precursor if you need it. Achieving the amount needed to get a precursor is not impossible.

Precursors are going for over 500g (some alot more) how many exotics are you getting per character for map completion to sell on again? I haven’t said at any point is was “impossible”.

Look, no one is saying that rare skins (legendary or otherwise) should be got every few weeks or months. No one is saying that everyone should end up having them at all (well if anyone is that is certainly not the stance I am advocating).

But it seem obvious that the whole process and approach involved is A – Badly done and B – Clearly at odds with any “oh you shouldn’t farm” stance. The whole random “all these places are kitten to farm in but knock yourself out in CoF and fractals” is also badly thought out (if indeed it has been thought out at all).

In all honesty I would rather they spent their time improving the pvp aspects of the game then mess about or have a complete volte face with regards to “loot” and the skin set up. But for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could imagine the current set up is a good one, or even one slightly in line whith the whole “farming is bad yo” ethos.

Sorry about the poor editing.

OGDeadHead.8326:

The flying champion boss where you farm sparks have been boosted to crazy levels as well, compared to before. Why are they doing this? You’re only making the gameplay experience worse for your players by implementing changes like these.

They don’t seem to know what they are doing at the moment.

Mirta.5029:

Fenrir.3609:

somehow it feels to me as if you weren’t actually responding to anything I wrote, because this post doesn’t actually address anything I said. And now like I said
1. Special skins is something you should be slowly achieving over time. I addressed why such objects exist in my 3rd point of the post you were quoting.
2. Now about events. What gives the most money and best drops:
number one is fractals. Never have I gotten as many greens as yellows as I’ve gotten n fractals.
CoF. CoF is broken at this point and will be made harder later.
Meta events. Very fast, guarantee at least one yellow.
High level dungeons. 15 silver or so per boss means that you will be leaving with over a gold every run, however it will take you more time than CoF to work for it.
High level map exploration. Guarantees a great reward, but it can take up to 4 hours to clear. Reward might not always equal that 8 gold that you could have made just running high level dungeons if you’re good at them, however it requires so much less skill to do.
Gathering.
Random events (not doing any important event chains, but just following simple events that give you no chest)
WvW.
I do agree with you that the current difficulty of CoF makes no sense, especially having in mind that a lower level dungeon than it is so much harder to do. However all the other methods, throwing that one out? They’re all just fine. You can get all the items that you want doing pretty much anything in the game, without farming CoF. The only catch is it will take you some time. Like it’s supposed to (see point 1).

1. Special skins were from the very conception of this game, the carrot most people would be chasing as opposed to stat gear in other mmos. That should be clear to every player and it was as clear as day to the developers themselves. “Oh it’s optional, you should chill guys” is in no way, shape, or form a response worthy of any merit with regards to the situation we currently have. The entire format of the way legendaries are constructed is a combination of an inordinate amount of grindable mats and OTT RNG, it’s just a bad, bad system.

If they want stuff to be rare and time consuming. Great, i’m all for that. But then don’t implement them in such a way as to actively promote grinding and RNG and then proceed to nerf into the ground the methods of grinding/farming.

Quest chains that unlock over time, one off events and tags you need to get (which could be repeated as high level fractals for those who joined/missed the events. More stuff like world completion and player kills. But no, “gather loads of T6 mats and bin all your rares into the toilet guys, but remember, don’t grind plox!”.

2. So people are farming fractals.

3. It’s been “broken” for a while now and as far as I am aware there is zero evidence to suggest it is going to be “fixed”. As it stands in the here and now (and as it has stood for some time now), it makes a mockery of any supposed anti farming policy.

4. Meta events, which you can run once per day per char. Looping the same meta dragons over and over is not a farm? Sure as kitten looks like one to me, which was why it was nerfed (see the once per day loot rule).

5. High level map exploration? If you happen to be doing it as part of the process of naturally leveling up alts, then cool, it is an nice byproduct of your leveling process (for alts), but you are going to need some severely extreme luck in terms of pumping them exotics in the toilet and getting a precursor.

From whichever view point you take (pro or anti farm), the current situation is a bit of a mess quite frankly.

Mirta.5029:

The Stain.4169:

snip

There is something odd going on if people can’t see just how prevalent “farming” is in this game and why that happens to be the case.

Regardless, whether you think that farming is right or wrong or whether you think ANET is pro or anti farming, it makes no sense whatsoever to have the current set up.

The disparity between one dungeon speed run and every other (non TP method that I am aware of) is just, well, strange.

If we are being brutally honest, ANET have fubared quite a lot up. The whole farming scenario is conflicting to say the least. We have a major dungeon farm speeding along and yet event farming in the endzone is being pretty much annihilated. We have legendaries which are not so much about amazing feats and quests, as about the 9000 mats you need to (supposedly not) farm. We also have an RNG system which is completely and utterly OTT.

On top of that, if you just thought “ah well kitten it, i’ll go do something else in game”, well WvW is a joke for many servers (EU T1 being a case in point) and sPvP is all over the shop.

It is frankly a bit of a mess currently and the whole “zerker CoF1 gogogogo, but farming is bad yo” and “requires 2000 T6 mats, but honestly farming is bad” messages we get are indicative of the general lack of direction.

It is more than likely that they are nerfing/trying to nerf farming because they simply want to push people into the gem store.

Regardless, I think the more interesting question is – if they are insisting on nerfing farming, why are they allowing CoF1 to remain as it is?

Evolution.1758:

I’ve been noticing this on Jade Quarry a lot lately, most often at Shelter’s gate right after the event. Champion Spiders with Veteran hatchling minions spawn along with a horrific champion wraith and pretty much wipe everyone there.

What leads me to believe this is a big and not a feature, is that they’re neutral when they spawn (but someone always attacks them anyway) and when you do manage to kill them, they give no xp and no loot. You can’t convince me that’s working as intended.

Not convinced, it would make sense if the issue was just post event mobs, but it isn’t. Damage from mobs mid event when upscaled is through the roof and when you combine that with the fact it is often coming via an AoE or unseen form (thanks culling). Then it seems a bit more than a basic bug.

Short term impact would possibly be a spike in lodestones and ectos as well as some deflation, coupled with lots of QQ. That is ofc assuming they nerfed it without taking steps to prevent any or all of the above.

Medium to long term would be people moving on to the next best farm or any new farms anet adds in. At which point we would see movement in the prices of the items centric to that particular farm.

It does seem strange they haven’t done anything about it given how out of whack it is considered to be by most. Especially since they have effectively put the kibosh on Orr event farming with the insane scaling in there (whether that is unintended or not).

John Smith.4610:

There are some really good points here, but my original intention was to talk about what the real world gets from us participating in this game economy, rather than what real world models were used in game economies.

In essence what can we learn here from the GW2 economy that we can have application outside of GW2.

An example I might think of is: Does players selling to highest buyer instead of waiting for a better offer show that people are not “Profit Maximizing” entities as basic economies assumes?

What can we learn from the GW2 economy that we can apply outside in the “real” economy? Not much at all (and that is not a slight, nor a smart alec comment).

People taking less optimal profit paths is often seen in less sophisticated investors actively engaged in real markets (retail traders and at market trades for example). It is not surprising that someone trying to have a bit of fun in a computer game would also take a less optimal profit path.

Curo.2483:

I think this is ANet’s way of saying “Stop farming the same bloody things day in, day out!”.

Maybe it’s their way of saying “Please buy more Gems from us!”.

Seriously though I am all for increasing difficulty, but not if it is done by the lazy kitten way of just shovelling in lol25k aoe champs which still drop total garbage loot.

Just looks like the usual build with a slight tweak to add Dogged. Doesn’t look mobile enough to me (on paper, if you are doing well with it then great).

Rezz.8019:

The best update ever. Finally some challenge rather than spamming 1111111 (oh wait, you don’t even have to spam, you have autoattack).
Great job devs, I hope you won’t revert this back to it was.

Now it’s time to increase the reward for completing these events.

Not sure if serious….

Challenge would be layering in complexity and driving more group synergy work.

Challenge is not “hurr let’s just thow in more veterans and champs and have (often) unavoidable AoE instagibs”.

You did get the latter part right, because the rewards and loot are just way out of line with both the current mob damage in the events and what you can return by running “lf1m zerker” CoF1 runs.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Fenrir.3609:

They should focus on working on the basics of balance and getting a more efficient match making and ranking set up. Then try and push any notion of it being an “esport”.

So the exact thing they said they were going to do, and then everyone threw their arms up and said “Custom arenas and spectator or no ESports”.

Come on community, make up your mind on priorities.

Well in fairness I’m not speaking for “the community” :p

Personally I can’t quite understand why anyone would prioritize watching spvp combat over and above actually making that spvp combat good.

They should focus on working on the basics of balance and getting a more efficient match making and ranking set up. Then try and push any notion of it being an “esport”.

Welp the camps certainly get interesting when champion wraiths spawn.. Still the porous bones are worth it.

Kichwas.7152:

The only problem is not enough people walking around with balanced gear.

Get some toughness and vitality and then its just fine. Content was broken before. When mobs hit so softly that zerker/glass canons can survive, that’s brokenj.

Went soloing in orr last night, did a couple events. Plan to go again tonight and see what else I can work through.

If you insist on being glassy, have fun standing outside of cof until they fix that too, and then stick to wvw or spvp where you can hide in a zerg or get on a themed team.

Sorry but that is just wrong. The issue has nothing to do with “ehmagawd zerkers!” at all.

Lily Miranda.5407:

It’s like they want everyone in CoF…

It does seem that way.

Dump a load of extra vets and champs in, keep the same utter garbage loot. Fantastic idea.

I’m wondering if it has anything to do with a change to the skill queue system?

This thread has been moved to the Suggestions forum? Not sure it was entirely serious…

gfox.6501:

A warrior specced in mobility and good pressure damage, but limited cleansing is not mobile at all. Cleansing protects against mobility debilitating attacks. Without decent cleansing, what good is your mobility skills? and without mobility, what good is your offense?

Oh I agree, but it depends how you define “limited”.

Dogged March/Melandru (add lemon grass food if we are talking wvw and not spvp).
Mobile Strikes – Savage Leap, Whirlwind, Rush, Bulls Charge.
Shake it Off, SoS (or Balanced Stance) and you could always go Mending but it has a pita heal.

There seems to be enough condition removal/reduction for the main part to be highly mobile and thus still be able to apply a large amount of damage and a decent sustain. There is enough cleansing for mobility, but I woudln’t define it as “good” cleansing as that seems to me more the domain of rapid/team cleansing.

I’ll temper that though with the fact that I’m still testing out a set up and it could be the case that with more testing that assumption is incorrect. Whether any of that is useful in tourny level spvp in comparison to what other professions can bring to the table, well that is another matter.