Guild Wars 2

Terrahero.9358:

3 ppl can defend against 50man zergs. Cheers.

Exaggerate much?

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Who has the advantage in a siege…

1- Defender on the wall, who can be pulled or melted by AoE, or attacker on the ground who can ignore the pitiful (old) siege weaponry of the defenders?

2- Defenders on the wall, whose arrow carts and ballistas will vanish in the first few seconds of a siege under an apocalyptic downpour of meteor storms, arrows, grenades, engineer crates, Mesmer phantasms and necro marks, or the attackers outside who can destroy EVERY PIECE OF SIEGE GEAR MEANT TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM?

3- Defenders inside the keep, who cannot repair the gate because of the insane stacked AoE damage that will instakill them if they stay there for more than 3 seconds, or the attackers who can stand there on the rams with no siege to attack them (see #2).

Seriously, the ongoing tearing out of hairs over this change…it’s a thing of beauty.

McNuggetBandit.8376:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

1- Use trebuchet to destroy inner siege.
2- Use said trebuchet to take down wall.

It’s going to be slower, more difficult, and require more effort and I bloody love it!!!

The only people who will really mind are the people who just wanted to continue the current flip-flip-flip-ARE-YOU-SERIOUS-DEFEND-?-flip-flip-flip trend. Fast xp, fast rewards, gimme gimme gimme.

And all they will do is build a counter treb, a bali or use their increased AC range. Its just going to slow things right down and cause massive stale mates. Were already starting to see it now in WvW and its only a few hours after patch

I’m not seeing a problem with fights taking longer and objectives being more defensible. It used to be possible to take a keep in under 90 seconds (or was it 60). NINETY SECONDS to storm a keep and flip it.

That is ridiculous.

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

1- Use trebuchet to destroy inner siege.
2- Use said trebuchet to take down wall.

It’s going to be slower, more difficult, and require more effort and I bloody love it!!!

The only people who will really mind are the people who just wanted to continue the current flip-flip-flip-ARE-YOU-SERIOUS-DEFEND-?-flip-flip-flip trend. Fast xp, fast rewards, gimme gimme gimme.

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

I don’t understand the QQ. You want zergs busted, defense instead of karma training promoted, they give you options for it, you whine anyway.

It’s simple; people don’t really want those things.

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

Just 2 of them are build if your going to make a straw man argument with a pic at least used a good one with what 5+ made. Any way all of the arrow carts there cant defind the wall just a bit way down so why go for a gate that well guarded when a wall you can hit with a treb or cata (mind you can hit it with cata and the door to the inner on hill).

I know its hard to understand but I put them there to show how many you can actually get and the wall that is to the left is also easy to defend with Acarts since its outside of the 1000 range. Even unbuilt arrowcarts count towards the siege limit so them not being built really doesnt matter.

Before you try and reply again, try to understand the game.

Ok for arrow carts there is an odd line of sight effect that comes into play you must be able to see where your going to shot. If you cant even if its in ranges of an arrow cart you cant hit it. Now there are programs that lets you zoom out and they brake the system so i suggested report the players who are using this in WvW because they are getting a great deal of an unfair adages in WvW.

All of those arrowcarts can hit the door, there is a small lip that you can see over on the ones on the outer wall to the most left and right, they can all hit.

So then you can use a cata to take that door with out that much problem you can also take out all the carts on the wall with nearly any class. At the same time that oil is more of a means to stop ppl from building rams right at the door. Also a lot of the back carts can only hit right on the door so there is room for rams to the very left or very right.

Cata’s are better on walls but ok, use a cata, they built a counter cata, you build a counter treb, they build a counter treb. Siege wars is not my idea of fun! Its boring as hell!

Running around re-flipping towers and camps ad nauseam is more tedious.

VOLKON.1290:

To be fair regarding arrow carts, there are times I’m standing in arrow cart fire and splash healing from allies is more than enough to counter the damage. The buff realistically was needed.

Guardians in Mercy gear can stand under 4 ACs right now and rez a fallen ally, help him up, brush off his clothes, and moonwalk away without ever getting below 50% HP.

Morthan.5439:

Increased arrow-cart damage:
Increased Fire damage by 80%.
Increased Fire Crippling Arrows damage by 17%.
Increased Fire Barbed Arrows damage by 60% and increased the Bleed duration to 15^^seconds.

What the kitten is this???? Are you kittening kidding us??? Oh I really hope this is some kind of a misspell cuz this is some serious billkitten right there….

ok ok ok… it was obvious that those guys at ANet have no idea wtf is goin on in this game, but simply imagine this: 5 superior ACs, maned by 5 guys with maxed Siege Might and AC Mastery rank traits behind a door. The question is: HTF do you get near the door without being instantly killed????

You don’t.

You’re supposed to be afraid of arrow carts.

You’re not supposed to stand in a rain of arrows for 45 seconds while you peacefully ram the door down in complete safety.

Kiijj.3594:

FractalChaos.6539:

Gawd…it’s toadying of the worst kind. Please don’t believe this person speaks for the entire server.

The forum warriors don’t speak for our entire server either.

“Ok guys, many of our guilds left and we’ve fallen out of Tier 1; it’s time to suck it up, rise above it, and show the Guild Wars 2 community what Sea of Sorrows is all about!! Tenacity, courage, dedication! We’re going to rise from the ashes, yeah, like the Phoenix of myth!! And like the Phoenix, WE SHALL BUILD-”

“- or we could transfer to a server already in T1.”

Yeah…the opinion of such a guild matters to me ginormously.

SFShinigami.2015:

I really did like beating the crap out of SoR, its too bad.

On the upside, Dragonbrand has some great guilds on it I’m itching to SF HUG.

=3

Planning to transfer there? It’s the only way you’ll be hugging them for at least another 2 months. Minimum.

Aww crap I fed a troll.

Tarkus.4109:

Running in a massive blob won’t win you the match

Seems to be working out ok for you guys.

Magical Sky Daddy.7540:

Fannwong.3059:

/nosarcasm

Dear Blackgate WvW Leaders,

Would like to congratulate you guys on an excellent push since reset. I think both SOR and JQ WvWers have underestimated the tenacity and determination of your guilds. It’s highly commendable.

The dedication of almost round the clock objective holds plus the spearhead of your Oceanic along with the shifting of some of your key Asian WvW commanders into EU time GMT+8 12am is very smart strategy.

Even without the Kaineng transfers you’ll probably hit No.1 this week, and with them I think BG certainly will be the top server in time to come if you can maintain the coverage and tenacity.

/tipshat

FW

This is great sportsmanship, I wish more people could be as respectful as fann

Gawd…it’s toadying of the worst kind. Please don’t believe this person speaks for the entire server.

scootshoot.6583:

SFShinigami.2015:

FractalChaos.6539:

All this chest beating by everyone…

We all know that success in WvW depends on sheer numbers. It’s not even debatable. The bigger zerg wins, the more heavily stacked server wins. That’s WvW. So what is everyone bragging about? I hope we at SoR, or on Blackgate, or on Jade Quarry, are not under the impression we’re more skilled than anyone else? Please…

You disagree? Please indicate to me a server with a low, medium or heavy population that has ever beaten 2 “Very Heavy” population servers, and then climb into a higher tier. Regale me with stories of how this plucky server with next to no coverage was able to claw its way to victory through sheer skill and strategy alone.

Go ahead, it’s Sunday and I did all my housework. I’ll wait.

Numbers don’t always mean everything. We just beat off the big BG zerg on BG BL when they tried to take our tower with like 2x our numbers while out manned. They couldn’t move us for half an hour.

One thing I’ve noticed the past several weeks from any of the SF posters is they always try to impress T1 with their skillz and beg for respect. But everyone in Tier 1, friend and foe knows FOO > SF by 100 fold on JQ, both in terms of coverage, skills.

Very possible, I’m no expert in JQ guild sizes. I do know that no T1 server can claim to be better than another based on the weekly matchup scores. Give a T8 server JQ’s WvW numbers and coverage tomorrow, and that server will steamroll its way into T1 in a veritable cakewalk.

Winning individual fights in WvW can involve skill…but winning matches involves nothing more than outnumbering the other guy. It’s just numbers. Skill is irrelevant. I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary since launch, else why do all the servers that “surge” do so ONLY after receiving some bandwag- I mean, valuable allies?

Le Rooster.8715:

FractalChaos.6539:

Cameron.2315:

FractalChaos.6539:

All this chest beating by everyone…

We all know that success in WvW depends on sheer numbers. It’s not even debatable. The bigger zerg wins, the more heavily stacked server wins. That’s WvW. So what is everyone bragging about? I hope we at SoR, or on Blackgate, or on Jade Quarry, are not under the impression we’re more skilled than anyone else? Please…

You disagree? Please indicate to me a server with a low, medium or heavy population that has ever beaten 2 “Very Heavy” population servers, and then climb into a higher tier. Regale me with stories of how this plucky server with next to no coverage was able to claw its way to victory through sheer skill and strategy alone.

Go ahead, it’s Sunday and I did all my housework. I’ll wait.

Seafarers rest :p

Please provide evidence. I can post random server names too.

He is actually right, though SFR had a low PvE population which gave it it’s medium status it has an incredibly high WvW population with queues on all four borderlands similar to their competitiors who were on very high status.

So a server with a medium overall population comprised almost entirely of WvW players beat other servers with higher populations which…didn’t fight in WvW.

I’m still waiting for a relevant example…although sincere kudos to SFR for being the lone server going down in the books as the exception that proves the rule!

Urrid.4593:

FractalChaos.6539:

But the fact my level 20 Mesmer was able to go to WvW and contribute more, in certain situations, than my level 80 Guardian says more about the class than about me…

My Mesmer is just DREADFUL as healing other players [in certain conditions]!

See what I did there? Guardians are still pretty OP so its funny that you use that for your example.

And yes it is sad that Glam is going away, but I saw the writing on the wall a couple months back and have been slowly switching to Shatter. Lucky me!

1 on a guardian: GreatSword #3 then Sword #2 to a distant creep/player you want to travel towards. Follow up with Save Yourselves. Your Guardian is now out of combat and hasted, and most likely WITH stability.

“Save Yourselves” is useless to escape combat if you’re in combat, as the speed boost is negated. Mesmer blinks to me; thief uses Heartseeker or Scorpion Wire. Elementalist uses that “Ride the Lightning” thing. Engineer uses #2 or #5 on his rifle, or #2 on his wrench. Necro uses Spectral Grasp. Guardians don’t escape battle. They prolong it.

The Mesmer? Mesmer uses veil (I can’t see him) or decoy (I can’t see him) and changes direction abruptly, then blinks away. Better than 50% chance that he gets away.

2 on a guardian. Seriously, learn to dodge. Rolling through a planned shatter absolutely sinks Mesmer DPS. Setting up 3 clones in a hurry takes either weapon swapping or a utility slot. This isn’t always easy to do if you’re disrupting the Mesmers attacks at all.

I can dodge just fine. I’m not worried about Mesmers, personally. My Guardian does what he’s supposed to do; he lasts so long versus a Mesmer that the Mesmer will either give up, or run away, or get friends. But if he chooses to run from me, the odds of my catching him…or stopping him…are pretty much nil.

Really. Go read the Guardian forums some. No one claims we suck. However, you won’t find anyone arguing that Guardians have zero escapability. My Engineer doesn’t worry about Guardians one bit, because I can keep them away from me with net turrets, rifle net, pushback, and I can yoink them to me from 1200 range with my Wrench…I decide if he is going anywhere or not.

Cameron.2315:

FractalChaos.6539:

All this chest beating by everyone…

We all know that success in WvW depends on sheer numbers. It’s not even debatable. The bigger zerg wins, the more heavily stacked server wins. That’s WvW. So what is everyone bragging about? I hope we at SoR, or on Blackgate, or on Jade Quarry, are not under the impression we’re more skilled than anyone else? Please…

You disagree? Please indicate to me a server with a low, medium or heavy population that has ever beaten 2 “Very Heavy” population servers, and then climb into a higher tier. Regale me with stories of how this plucky server with next to no coverage was able to claw its way to victory through sheer skill and strategy alone.

Go ahead, it’s Sunday and I did all my housework. I’ll wait.

Seafarers rest :p

Please provide evidence. I can post random server names too.

All this chest beating by everyone…

We all know that success in WvW depends on sheer numbers. It’s not even debatable. The bigger zerg wins, the more heavily stacked server wins. That’s WvW. So what is everyone bragging about? I hope we at SoR, or on Blackgate, or on Jade Quarry, are not under the impression we’re more skilled than anyone else? Please…

You disagree? Please indicate to me a server with a low, medium or heavy population that has ever beaten 2 “Very Heavy” population servers, and then climb into a higher tier. Regale me with stories of how this plucky server with next to no coverage was able to claw its way to victory through sheer skill and strategy alone.

Go ahead, it’s Sunday and I did all my housework. I’ll wait.

Lukemia.2581:

FractalChaos.6539:

Lukemia.2581:

Victoitor.2917:

Whether you want it or not, Mesmers are OP and they should be nerfed. I run confusions myself as an engineer and I’ll also be hit, but I know it’s necessary. It sucks, but it has to be done. Get over it.

Can you explain how they are OP everyone says they are but they never explain. Also you are an engineer I’d assume you know what its like being op.

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

See that last one? The one with the asterisk? Yeah, a lot of people still have a problem with the first 4, so having that fifth one on TOP of the first 4 was too much.

Mesmers are still one of- if not the -most versatile classes in the game. They still bring more to the WvW table, in terms of options and flexibility, than any other class in the game.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy)
3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
…and yet you can choose to enter or leave a fight as you wish thanks to stealth, blink, clones, decoy etc. My Guardian may take 3 times longer to die than you will in a fight, but he will die. Guardians simply don’t “escape” from a fight gone bad.

2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy).
We can theorycraft all day here. You come up with a scenario highlighting Mesmer weakness, and I will highlight an equivalent weakness for the other classes. None of that alters the fact that mesmer damage can very, very easily keep up with everyone else’s.

3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
Other classes can do it for no seconds. The fact that a skill has a drawback doesn’t mean it’s useless.

5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.
That’s not really what I meant; maybe I didn’t explain myself right. Mesmers in these forums have said “Confusion isn’t a problem, just don’t attack and wait for it to drop”. Ok…but while we’re waiting, what are you doing? Killing us. So, once you drop Confusion in the path or on top of an oncoming zerg (and please don’t be so intellectually dishonest as to say “You can avoid that easy”), that zerg is pretty much a non-factor for a few seconds. A few seconds in WvW can equal a wipe, easily. It’s something only mesmers can do. Why is this so hard to see?

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.
Their versatility isn’t in their specs, it’s in what those specs let them do. During a siege, you can pull people off walls, drop Confusion on the wall defenders…also Radiation Field, Null field to mitigate ranged damage, phantasms to take out siege equipment you can’t even see due to LoS. What does my Guardian do during a siege? Spam scepter #2 on the wall hoping its tiny radius actually hits something.

I am not saying this doesn’t hurt; any class gets hurt when a nerf comes in. I’m saying that some “nerfs”- like the fix to culling -are just that; fixes. Confusion in WvW is just one other tool mesmers have to affect WvW on a macro scale. You just have to learn to use it as part of an arsenal now, instead of depending on it.

EDIT: Null field rips all boons off a nice chunk of the zerg. I forgot about that (my Mesmer is only level 20ish). That just strengthens my position, however.

Entropy.4732:

Show some respect for the fallen.

Any build that becomes the de facto build for an entire class usually does so because it has advantages and perks the other builds don’t have. This fix was quite necessary. No build died today; it just got brought down to earth with the rest of them.

Lukemia.2581:

Im gunna make some statements.
Mesmers have the worst heals in the game.
Mesmers are the slowest class in the game.
Mesmers are forced into 3 builds in this game (bunker, shatter, glamour)
any one want to add more to the list feel free.

I’m sorry but mesmers still have exceedingly good viability as damage dealers, AND you’re ten times more useful than a Guardian would be in WvW. Guardians attacking during a siege- which requires ranged combat, as you know – are next to useless (scepter sucks). In a siege defense? Other than spamming my staff right at the door to keep people off it (before the zerg decides to melt me through the door), yeah…useless.

Agreed, guardians are excellent in open field fights. They are the absolute masters (sorry bunker eles but I laugh at you) of the “HAHAHA like you’re going to kill me” taunt. They have great denial abilities (Line of warding, Wall of Reflection, etc).

Mesmers dominate every other aspect of WvW practicality though.

Lukemia.2581:

Victoitor.2917:

Whether you want it or not, Mesmers are OP and they should be nerfed. I run confusions myself as an engineer and I’ll also be hit, but I know it’s necessary. It sucks, but it has to be done. Get over it.

Can you explain how they are OP everyone says they are but they never explain. Also you are an engineer I’d assume you know what its like being op.

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

See that last one? The one with the asterisk? Yeah, a lot of people still have a problem with the first 4, so having that fifth one on TOP of the first 4 was too much.

Mesmers are still one of- if not the -most versatile classes in the game. They still bring more to the WvW table, in terms of options and flexibility, than any other class in the game.

EDIT: For the record, Mesmers do have drawbacks. For one I find leveling them is dreadfully boring. But the fact my level 20 Mesmer was able to go to WvW and contribute more, in certain situations, than my level 80 Guardian says more about the class than about me…

Lukemia.2581:

Moa skill is useless. You turn a person into a bird and gave him 5 speed skills (congrats you gave a player an escape)

…thereby removing him from the ongoing fight (Big Picture) and helping your side. That’s one less enemy damaging, killing, and staking your guys. Stop worrying about how everything affects you and you alone.

osif.8673:

Now mesmers will respecc phantasms which do 10k damage every ~4-6 seconds or shatter builds which do more every 9ish seconds. Enjoy!

Phantasms and clones are stupendously easy to kill before they even get close to you.

As if individual player skill had anything to do with WvW. It’s just a long list of broken and imbalanced skills and mechanics pitted against other broken and imbalanced skills and mechanics.

“Ooh guild X is so skilled!” Meet Guild X in the field, crush them, ponder…
“Ooh commander X is so good!!” Listen to Commander X in TS repeating the identical litany of “SHIFT LEFT SHIFT LEFT WATER FIELD WATER FIELD BLAST BLAST BLAST!!! Do not rally that, do NOT rally that!!!!!” as every other kitten commander on TS.

People call themselves “skilled” nowadays because they can tie their own shoelaces…

Zen.8497:

FractalChaos.6539:

Thundar.3910:

SoR has several havoc squads.

If they exist, they’re really ineffective or led by incompetents.

SoR’s response time as a server is atrocious. We never manage to control a majority of supply camps on any borderland. While a huge SoR zerg is chewing away at one of the two keeps, all the northern supply camps regularly fall to the enemy…and stay that way for multiple ticks. NO one reclaims them except for PUGs. For the record, yes, I am on SoR. Yes, I have been engaged in WvW since the betas. No, I’m not mistaken about this.

If our “havoc squads” snicker aren’t reclaiming lost camps (they don’t) and they aren’t capturing enemy camps (they don’t), then what the kitten are they doing?

You know…if they exist, that is.

It is some that have so good an opinion of their own understanding as to think their own way the best…

A nice convoluted way of saying that you disagree with me without providing any counterpoint. Noted.

Thundar.3910:

SoR has several havoc squads.

If they exist, they’re really ineffective or led by incompetents.

SoR’s response time as a server is atrocious. We never manage to control a majority of supply camps on any borderland. While a huge SoR zerg is chewing away at one of the two keeps, all the northern supply camps regularly fall to the enemy…and stay that way for multiple ticks. NO one reclaims them except for PUGs. For the record, yes, I am on SoR. Yes, I have been engaged in WvW since the betas. No, I’m not mistaken about this.

If our “havoc squads” snicker aren’t reclaiming lost camps (they don’t) and they aren’t capturing enemy camps (they don’t), then what the kitten are they doing?

You know…if they exist, that is.

ARM.3912:

His $60, he can play how he wants… and you probably deserve it.

First part of your statement is more or less accurate. The second part suggests that maybe the OP’s sociopath isn’t the only sociopath lurking around this game…

sostronk.8167:

I think the issue is that the zergs can get to the size they have. In Tier 1 its not been uncommon to see zergs of 100 players. This means that often you can roll over a tower before the opposing team has a chance to react, even if they got commed early.

True. However, the larger issue remains. Given your scenario, even if you DO react in time;

1- Your defensive siege weapons will be gone in the first minute of a siege.

2- Any new siege you try to build will be destroyed before it can be finished.

3- Any effort to stand and defend on the wall will kill you, not the enemy.

I can understand the difficulty in balancing things so that defenders aren’t invulnerable in their structures and so that attackers get a fair shot at taking objectives.

The balance since launch, unfortunately, has been outrageously against the defenders.

Mein.5076:

30 man zerg has the abilities to repel even 50ish zerg as long as there are Sieges inside like cannon, Ac, ballista, trebs(shoot siege on sight or switch to the poison cow), Mortar, Cata. its not even hard.

I beg to differ. Defenders during a siege are at a tremendous *dis*advantage.

1- The game’s z-axis and “collision detection” as it were, are broken. Ninety percent of all siege weaponry in a keep can be destroyed with ease by AoE spamming the walls, arrow carts shooting through the gap between gate and wall, etc.

Siege weaponry is a minor irritant to a large zerg, not a deterrent.

2- I can stand on the very edge of the wall , look down at someone who is right there, pull my rifle’s trigger; “Obscured…obscured…obscured….”. Meanwhile, I’ve been shot, AoE’d. and pulled off the wall by the attackers outside.

Pretty much every game mechanic and every line of poor coding favors the attackers.

Really?

Mega-oobar team: “Go away, stop following us scrub.”

Me: “Eh?”

Mega-oobar team: “Go away. Go claim some other camp.”

Me: H…ha….ha…h-h-ha-AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAAAA cough choke wheeze AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

fivekiller.1432:

I guarantee he didn’t owkitten0+ zerg with 7 people even if they were all upscaled.

Exactly. You give me 5 minutes to coach even just 20 random upscaled PUGs- not 50 – on any given night, and the point man in this “too pro” 7 person group will be focused down while the rest are all boon stripped, stunned, blinded, and then gutted.

Niim.9260

Our 5-8 man has rolled a 50+ guild zerg,

Oh please…

My one, absolute biggest gripe of them all;

Range and LoS on player AoE abilities is poorly coded (AoE through floors, through doors, through walls, reaching the top of a 300 foot high cliff, and so on).

AoE abilities with consistent, working range and line of sight limitations would be swell. Why, after so many years and so many games, is this still a problem??? Why can elementalists outside the keep managing to AoE the siege inside the keep?

-There’s a wall between them and the siege.
- They can’t see the area they are casting on!!!!

Our west tower in SoR borderlands had a trebuchet built on the domed vista. How did the JQ zerg take it out, you think? Counter treb? Catas? Ballista?

Nah. Elementalists just stood at the wall and AoEd a trebuchet which is clearly out of both the range and line of sight of their ability. But hey, whatever right?

Yeah yeah I know, everyone has to deal with it. That’s not the point. Why the hell haven’t they figured out how to do this properly yet???

playandchill.3908:

Oil canon and kitten

The same burning olil and cannons which are 99% of the time destroyed by a category 5 AoE storm which is completely unavoidable?

I agree about catas being fixed like this; it’s not a nerf, it’s finally working as intended, and that’s good. My only problem is that there is still no valid way to defend a keep or tower against the stupid, poorly executed targeting in this game; siege weapons melt so quickly you can’t possibly use them in any serious way.

I have no idea what you are talking about, to be quite honest. I tried this build (I have lotsa gold so I don’t mind the expenditure of buying new weapons, armor, runes and sigils, really) but it’s awful. Zero survivability in WvW. Whereas usually I can fight 2-3 people to a standstill on my Guardian, with this build I’m dead in under 45 seconds to a single Thief or Elementalist, the moment Save Yourselves wears off.

Side note; Admittedly though, thieves are a separate problem for me. It’s illogical but thieves own me. Period. If they catch me in the open, I’m dead. I tried retaliation builds; it does not work. They stealth and return when retal has worn off. It doesn’t work. That is all on this topic, I’m ok with it and not seeking “How to counter a thief” advice, lalalalalala….

Sorry, but I am not seeing this build work. At all. Compared to a standard 0/0/30/30/10 with Altruistic Healing and a Hammer, this build is severely kitten It has greater damage output (probably double), about the same hitpoints, but about 750 less toughness and nearly 900 less armor.

That’s not survivability in my book.

Ahewm.

Yes it exists. No it isn’t especially fun, rewarding, or useful.

Running into 10-20 man groups zerging a single supply camp is common. At that point, you either need the same number of people in order to (hopefully) stalemeate them in the claim circle.

If you have less people, just wait for them to leave and PvE it.

Ruprect.7260:

Gorefiend.9675:

Ruprect.7260:

I have never seen a fully upgraded keep go down in less than 5 mins unless there was no one there to defend. l2defend/scout.

I have seen a fully upgraded keep go down in less than 5 minutes. Garrison: Outer water gate down in ~1 minute, inner gate down in 10 seconds. captured a minute later.

Undefended maybe. Why u no defend.

There’s the problem. You can’t. The game balance is tilted horribly towards the attackers during sieges. Assume you have 50 invaders in your land, with 30 defenders on the map.

Anything those 50 invaders want to take is going to fall, and there isn’t a kitten thing you can do about it.

1- Siege weaponry cap renders it highly innefectual against massive armies.

2- Line-of-sight favors the attackers. It’s easier to AoE the TOP OF THE WALL from outside than it is for me, standing on top of the wall staring right at them, to use any ranged or AoE attacks.

3- Poor collision detection allows the enemy to turn your gates into death traps. Try to repair them with all that supply you have stocked up. You’ll get knocked off the gate by catapults, or else stunned, poisoned, fried, and knocked into a fresh open grave by a perfect storm of AoE.

50% of the time, I hear a call to defend. The other 50% of the time I hear “Ah let ’em have it…”

I should preface this by saying I never met, spoke to, or even knew of Roger “Oldroar” Rall before learning about his story, and the resulting naming of the “Sanctum of Rall” server im Guild Wars 2 to honor him.

However, I had to go and dig into it once I learned about the server’s creation. From everything I gather, he was an honest, brave, friendly human being. A person of obvious integrity, some would say. GSCH, on our server, was the former home of Oldroar so they can most definitely speak to this better than I can.

In any case, I just wanted to say that I find our current obvious strategy- token resistance, no organized defenses, keep up appearances -just so we can drop down to Tier 2 just doesn’t fit with how Oldroar would have done things. Am I wrong?

SoR used to fight all the time, every day, and that’s how we won in the lower brackets. We contested everything, every single opbjective, we sent small teams out simultaneously. None of this “Let them have it, we’ll go take blah instead”. None of this megazerg crap. No constant flipping and trading objectives.

Our borderland was our borderland. We didn’t attack until home was secure.

Ah I digress…bottom line is that I don’t think Oldroar would have approved of SoR players trying to game the rankings system like this. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s not important.

CriSPeH.8512:

I have a feeling there is going to be alot of QQ when Thieves start getting murdered trying to use the same ole tricks.
It will be like after the first Rogue nerf.

I know, I know…and it is going to echo on the winds like the most melifluous choir of angelic bliss ever!! =D

Not at all aware if this has been posted here yet…but the fornt page of Gw2.com makes it official;

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-worldthe-end-of-culling/?utm_source=client

I think we all know what this means.

SUCK IT UP, THIEVES!!!! =P

No more near-perma stealth or attacking from stealth for j00. Seriously, I think that aspect of it thrills me more than anything else lol!!

Trikki.5803:

Israel.7056:

FractalChaos.6539:

This from a player on the server best known for stacking guilds to get into T1, only to fail miserably once there and then fall out of contention (and T1)? Twice so far, as I recall?

Your glass house, my friend; she’s gotta lotta cracks.

I don’t think we have failed miserably in t1 and we’re hardly out of contention this time. Last week wasn’t a bad performance and right now we’re not doing so bad either.

The time BG got to t1 before this I thought everyone on BG fought hard and tried their best. You can’t ask for more than that regardless of the outcome.

I would imagine that many on SoR would be pretty frustrated to see so many SoS guilds pass up the chance to join SoR’s “family” but you cannot begrudge an entire server of people just for being on a server where other people chose to transfer. Or maybe you can, your choice.

But you haven’t answered my question. You have instead engaged in a form of logical fallacy known as “poisoning the well.” BG’s performance history in t1 has nothing to do with SoR’s current plans for t1. You said there’s a super duper top secret SoR plan. I can’t imagine what it would be except to tank the match and play in t2.

Wouldn’t worry mate, we won’t have to deal with SoR much longer, they’re on the way dooooooooown. They’ll be replaced by a good adversary in Kaineng. Looking forward to having a T1 thread without all the jealousy.

SoR was happy in T2-3 as well. We had awesome battles against Dragonbrand, Yak’s Bend…battles where the numbers were always juuuust slightly in one side’s favor or another. Never any real numerical or timezone coverage advantage to be found.

Then people started hearing about SoR’s awesome fights and transferred to us, and we wound up getting pushed into T1 much to MANY a SoR player’s chagrin. The thing is, there’s nothing you can do about it.

You either have bandwagonners hop on your server because it has developed a rep…or like Blackgate and others did, you chase other guilds and beg and plead and promise cookies.

sostronk.8167:

Liquid.9672:

Bursts.1540:

We got more oceanics? and from JQ?

Would be news to me. I think he’s mistaken maybe?

There is a rumor floating around that BG recruited Oceanics from JQ. I think its just a rumor. Haven’t heard/seen any different. Our Oceanic seems to have more than halved, but I think its just because people are taking a break. Could be wrong though.

That’s how you “win” T1; you beg other servers’ guilds to defect to yours until nothing the other servers can do matters in the face of your numerical superiority.

You disagree?

How many servers have gotten to T1 without guild transfers or overhwelming population advantages? How many servers managed to stay in T1 and keep winning when their population dropped even, say, 10-15%?

Yeah that’s what I thought. Please, spare me the “It’s all skill, dedication and organization” drivel.

DivineBeing.2086:

And so it has begun, SoR dropped rating and Kaineng’s went up :o.

Good!!! WvW in T1 is no more fun than it is in T2 or 3 or 6. I’m not getting how people fail to see this.

It’s completely, exactly the same…except with ultramegazergs everywhere. Other than that…Dragonbrand is just as good as Jade Quarry, Sorrow’s Furnace is just as good as Blackgate.

They just have less people.

At 3:35 PM, we (SoR) have about maybe 20 people in our own BL, and far as I can tell we’re outmanned on all maps. Map chat is dead, team chat is dead, TeamSpeak has maybe 10 -15 people spread across all channels.

I know we don’t have 24h coverage on this server, but I’ve rarely seen it this bad across all maps…

JaredKincade.9761:

For the record, the “skill clicker” is a member of ICoa, not a commander.

Oh and we are the red sox. lol

I also agree the rivalry in itself is pretty fun. Honestly your play has forced us, (we’ve faced you every night in Tier 1 at least for a portion of the night) to keep sharp. It makes us better for all other fights as well. I’m sure it does the same for you.

Having said that, you and I both know 2am is not an accurate measurement of “OMG WE ROXORED YOU, OMG THE BAGS”. So as Rawthorn said, we would like to GvG. Maybe you win, maybe we win. Either way it will be fun. And either way I know I’d like to do it more than once. I think its something this game is fundamentally lacking but something we can choose to participate in.

We’ll go 30 vs 30. Enough for a good fight, shouldn’t be too much skill lag if we do it south of the camp. We can count out both sides (not that either of us would EVER accuse the other of cheating). I think it would be fun, and thats what this is all about.

Though we should do it sooner rather than later. Or we may not get the chance.

Two guilds fighting with equal numbers…in a known setting…with foreknowledge. That’s in no way representative of WvW skill, where reacting rapidly to unexpected situations against possibly superior numbers can occur at any moment.

It’s in those situations you can recognize the good fighters.

What you’re proposing is just a face-saving measure. “Unless you accept our challenge, your claims are not true!”

Who cares if you or anyone else believes it? Stop worrying about your press and fight. If you’re as good as you say you are, people won’t believe any false propaganda anyways.

Vodka.3958:

Pvp.2758:

iCoa isn’t even on the same skill level as Choo.

Lol your right, we’re better.

Having run into and fought you Icoa folks all kinds, sorry, I must say…as a SoR player…I’m not impressed. Far too easy to kill. Same goes for PRX.

Some people on my server see guilds like these as “iconic” because of their presence, and I don’t get it. They’re just really not that good.

covenn.7165

On another note, how do you feel about the JQ player inside the inner wall model at bay breaking down the wall from within it? Or the other player inside the bridge model at Garrison attacking people crossing it? Is that less of a grey area?

It’s just as much of an exploit, and the people should be banned. Simple as that. Your argument is so weak (it’s not even an argument, it’s a justification) .

Think about it.

“I know it’s bugged. It’s an exploit to hide in broken geometry. But everyone else does it, so we do too…therefore, because so many people use it, it’s not an exploit anymore.”

An exploit is an exploit no matter how you rationalize it or how common it is.

I’m done with you.

covenn.7165:

No breaking or bending of game mechanics, simple jump puzzle like activity.

…culminating in your character passing through a portion of the world geometry that the designers did not intend for a player to be able to pass through. That would be considered exploiting.

Oh and by the way, regarding the “3 servers telling you it’s ok” comment; that’s just argumentum ad populum. A majority in agreement isn’t necessarily right.

problematic.9623:

ND
MERC
OnS
ATAC
VI
Work
DR

And don’t forget Agg & FoE

About half the server? Enjoy the head bashing/spiking on all sides.
Remember to fraps/record.

There are some guilds that everyone seems to think we should “respect” for their “acccomplishments” and which I loathe to no end because of their (apparent) bandwagonning and server hopping. PRX, ATAC (I swear I’ve seen both on at least 2 different servers) and some other guild from I think Dragonbrand which fought us back in T4 and has been following us around like a bad case of crabs come to mind.