Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

Gabriell.4856:

Cynz.9437:

it is not just missed bs, even if you hit empty air with BS you get revealed

i really wish they would at least post it on patch notes~
oh and assisted rocket triggers of anything, has 10sec CD and hits like truck, because fire/air procs weren’t enough~

definitely not buying xpac, eff this crap, back to league

Don’t want to sound like a smart kitten but don’t swing at the air????

have you ever play a thief and fight other thief or mesmer? just curious

Yes, I play one. If both of you are in stealth, you predict/guess/fire and hope for the best where the thief/mesmer is and try to BS.

Anet now took the “guessing” out of the equation and the first to leave stealth gets punish. They just need to apply this rule set to mesmer as well and all is good.

Vornollo.5182:

Gabriell.4856:

Terissimo.6852:

Why anet? WHY?!

Yummy, thief’s tears…

I hope this isn’t a bug. This is what some players want in terms of counterplay. Now they just need to add it to other stealth attacks.

You do realize that we could technically get of 3 backstabs in 4 seconds so long as we do it in our refuge? Time for some bunker tears…

Which I think is fair. Failed attempt at BS removes 1 stack of stealth. If you have 2 or 3 you get X amount of attempts. Sounds very reasonable to me and a lot less harsher than automatic reveal on any miss attack.

I’m a thief player too. I think Anet is going to do something to stealth and now is the time to give reasonable feedback instead of resisting and getting stealth nerfed to the ground. Just my 2 cents.

Good job Anet (honestly). Now apply it to all stealth attacks!

Terissimo.6852:

Why anet? WHY?!

Yummy, thief’s tears…

I hope this isn’t a bug. This is what some players want in terms of counterplay. Now they just need to add it to other stealth attacks.

Sins.4782:

Shown in today’s stream:

Barbarian: 1200 vit, 900 pow, 900 pre
Berserker: 1200 pow, 900 pre, 900 fero
Carrion: 1200 condi, 900 pow, 900 vit
Celestial: 560 pow/pre/tough/vit/fero/heal/condi
Cleric: 1200 heal, 900 tough, 900 pow
Crusader: 1050 pow, 1050 tough, 560 fero, 560 heal
Knight: 1200 tough, 900 pow, 900 pre
Marauder: 1050 pow, 1050 pre, 560 vit, 560 fero
Rabid: 1200 condi, 900 pre, 900 tough
Rampager: 1200 pre, 900 pow, 900 condi
Settler: 1200 tough, 900 heal, 900 condi
Soldier: 1200 pow, 900 tough, 900 vit
Valkyrie: 1200 pow, 900 vit, 900 fero
Assassin: 1200 pre, 900 pow, 900 fero
Cavalier’s: 1200 tough, 900 pow, 900 fero
Magi: 1200 heal, 900 pre, 900 vit
Sentinel: 1200 vit, 900 pow, 900 tough

New/changed/interesting amulets in italics.

New stat totals:
3-stat amulets: 3000
4-stat amulets: 3220 (7.33% over base)
Celestial: 3920 (30.66% over base)

Old stat totals:
3-stat: 2232
Berserker’s: 2364 (5.9% over base)
Celestial: 3066 (37.37% over base)

Looks like no multi-item stat system

Edit: imgur album here

Basically, low HP classes (guardian, thief, ele) are excluded from using zerker amulet. They can use it but you got to be stupid to run around with 10K HP with all the power creep and condi buff. We will have to use the new Marauder amulet.

Kageseigi.2150:

Gabriell.4856:

“Spam your skills around you”
-Thief looks at you and think you’re an idiot for hitting air.

I do the same thing as a thief. It’s survival, not the red carpet. Appearance is nothing.

Gabriell.4856:

“Shadow Refuge. That’s where the thief is”
Double dodge will avoid all if not most damage. You can also use SB or Sword evade if you aim it correctly.

That’s playing playing on a pretty fine line. Shadow Refuge is used defensively a lot. Dodges may have been expended already, and even if available, you’d better hope you have enough room to maneuver inside… especially with weapon evade skills. How long can you actually dodge/evade against AoE inside SR anyway? The full 4 seconds?

Gabriell.4856:

" Thief and necro are the only ones without access to invulnerability"
Vamp runes say hi! Nothing carries a player more than stealth and invul.

Now, that’s just silly. Besides, Vamp runes proc at low health and take away ALL abilities… not something a thief desires at all. The only place stealth and a COMPLETELY defensive invulnerability carries players is out of a hot zone if they’re lucky, but usually, it carries them to a different place to die. If it carried them anywhere else, thieves would reign supreme on the battlefield.

Honestly, that’s like saying defense carries players. Well, yeah, it keeps them from dying. That’s the same for everybody. Thieves just have a different type of defense than most. It has its advantages and disadvantages. Without it, there would be a LOT more dead thieves… already more than the MULTITUDE there already are.

How do you know thief doesn’t desires vamp runes? Because you say so? I see it in top level tourney so someone desires it…Vamp runes by itself is counterable because you can see where the thief is going. But with d/p panic strike build, it complements it well. Last refuge and vamp rune proc gives thief invul, stealth, and condi cleanse at the same time. It is highly desireable because the vamp rune proc will interrupt any skill so when last refuge proc it prevent unintended reveal. This is 100% passive play and requires no skill that allows the thief to reset. How do you counter invul, stealth, and cleanse? You just can’t.

Maris.3164:

Obviously the OP does not play thief.

Look, a thief who camps in stealth isn’t doing anything for their team. The counterplay is super easy and doesn’t require Lock on or Sic em. All it requires is playing smart and staying focused.

There are pretty much two things you should expect when a thief stealths: A. they stealth and run away (you’ll know they ran off when you’re out of combat again). B. They’re going in for a backstab, so don’t just stand there cursing to yourself and move. Spam your skills around you. Make it hard and dangerous for them to land the backstab.

Shadow refuge. You can see the aoe right? You see the little house symbol on top? That’s where the thief is. If he moves out of it he’s revealed. Go spam your skills on top of it and they’ll either go down or move out of it. Or if you play a hambow war, knock them out of it.

Even though you can’t see them, you can still hit them. Stealth is not invulnerability which is by far stronger, making it impossible to interrupt a stomp for instance. Thief and necro are the only ones without access to invulnerability and what does the necromancer have again? That’s right, Death shroud, a second health bar. So what does the thief have? STEALTH.

If they nerfed stealth, they would have to buff thieves otherwise, and trust me… If you struggle with thieves now, you would cry even more after any buffs that would compensate stealth nerfs. It’s how the class was meant to be played.

Roll a thief and try it out in pvp. You’ll notice it’s not as OP as you thought it was. Furthermore, you should read the whole thread on the profession changes before you deem thief OP. Other classes are going to get buffed as well.

“Spam your skills around you”
-Thief looks at you and think you’re an idiot for hitting air.

“Shadow Refuge. That’s where the thief is”
Double dodge will avoid all if not most damage. You can also use SB or Sword evade if you aim it correctly.

" Thief and necro are the only ones without access to invulnerability"
Vamp runes say hi! Nothing carries a player more than stealth and invul.

Obviously you do not play a thief.

Kageseigi.2150:

So are we talking very high-level interrupt skills required?

What professions have insta-cast interrupts?

Warrior – Fear Me
Mesmer – Already mentioned
Necro – Doom
Thief – Already mentioned
Ele – Updraft or Shocking aura if he is going to HS to you
Ranger – Don’t have one but PBS is good and they have Sic Em.
Engi – Multiple; Rifle 4, Shield pushback
Guardian – Shield knockback (haven’t seen one in months….)

All profession have a way to interrupt the combo. They just can’t keep up with how often the thief can use the combo.

naphack.9346:

I just don’t see why people would choose shadow rejuvenation over venom share, which is way more busted even for D/P builds.
Quickly deciding a 2v1 is way more important and has way more impact on the game state than being able to escape from a fight, where all your allies died.

Is the trait too strong? Yes, probably.
Will the trait see play in PvP? Some, probably.
Does the trait help you push objectives and burst down people? Well… No.
Does the trait allow you to contest points? No.
Does the trait allow you to troll endlessly? Yes, certainly.

Pretty sure, the team mates of that thief will be more agitated by his actions than his opponents.

Certainly, the trait does powerful stuff, but it just isn’t all that relevant to the game. When was the last time, you’ve seen a prismatic understanding mesmer?

I don’t know what your level of spvp experience is and I also want to say I’m a novice at spvp but you realize that thieves are already doing that right? Stacking stealth to reset fights, reposition, etc. The d/p playstyle will not change comes June 23rd. They will play the same with the added benefit of SA.

“Is the trait too strong? Yes, probably.”
Agree

“Will the trait see play in PvP? Some, probably.”
Most definitely unless you want to get murder by condi

“Does the trait help you push objectives and burst down people? Well… No.”
Absolutely. Are you going to burst people down if you only have 25% health and no initiative? SR allows the thief to regen health and init thus decrease the amount of time the thief has to reset the fight before going back in. Also in a fight, the init regen and health regen (even if it is for a few secs) allows the thief to stay in the fight longer and use skills more often.

“Does the trait allow you to contest points? No.”
How is this different than the current meta?

“Does the trait allow you to troll endlessly? Yes, certainly.”
Agree. This trait line is the reason why there are over a thousand QQ post in the thief and wvw forums.

Omg look at those buffs. 1 full shatter already gets us really low and now it will probably instant down us. Their phantasms will do crazy damage. Their stealth will also last double duration so we have to leap 3x thru BP or we will get caught desealthing before they do. They will be my first target every time I see one…

EremiteAngel.9765:

thief steal got buffed.

stolen plasma not nerfed either.

RIP mesmers?

but looking at your changes…are you now actually greater than thieves?

I main a thief for the past 3 years. After I saw the mesmer buffs, I’m dusting off my mesmer. Basically, phant and shatter will hit like a truck while having IP as base plus DE and PU. My build will be 6/6/6/0/0

Dahkeus.8243:

So, ideally no one won and everything’s balanced…

but this is the internet and we’re on video game forums, so of course we’ll all be talking about how the complete opposite is true. =P

Anyways, my vote goes to Engineer:
– Elites got significantly buffed
– Blast finisher on dodge
– They can actually see their back piece now

“Steal” won.

It gained additional range and a few secs off the cooldown. Still remains the most OP instant ability in the game.

Vieteriukko.6075:

Funny, the thief received no buffs but nerfs in several past months. Back then there was match making topics every day complaining that thieves are dead weight and predict to be lost game if you had those squishies in your team.

Now player created meta has moved on and suddenly thief is considered strong again. Cure for meta issues is not change of code but evolve with meta.

Several months…how far are we going back?

Anet F’ed up several months back when they increased thief initiative regen. They nerfed a trait which impact one or two builds yet buff the natural initiative regen for all builds. Stupid move in my opinion. That along with the sigil buff allows thief to spec completely out of CS and into 6/0/2/0/6 and still output high damage.

kdaddy.5431:

I find it nearly impossible for most melee classes without stealth to do any real damage. For instance Warriors hammer and greatsword arent used very much cause your opponent has to let you get in melee range. Thieves get to use invisibility and then therefore use crit backstab with double sigils to do there damage.

So my thought it to limit the sigil or air/fire to 1 per weapon set and just increase the base damage of melee weapons. I mean most classes use range from certain spots as it is. Rangers/mesmers/engys/necros/ele most of the time are sitting on ledges trying to free cast. Like anything with less then 350 range gets a damage boost. Im just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.

I agree but it depends on the weaponset. Warrior Axe/Axe is a lot harder to stick to a target – there’s no mobility skill within that weaponset. You basically get kited to death.

Thief’s D/P, S/D/ etc don’t need a buff because they have mobility skils within the set (ports). It’s really easy to get in melee range.

Kageseigi.2150:

Yes, this thread is strictly a L2P issue for myself.
As a thief, I think perma-stealthing is quite an important skill to know how to do, but I have actually never figured out how to do it.

So please, can someone give me a detailed guide of how to stay hidden in stealth permanently? Like…

Traits
Gear
Utilities
Step 1.
Step 2.
Step 3.
Etc.

Maybe even a video?

And I do mean permanently stealthed. After all, if I come out of stealth at all, I don’t like my chances. With Stronghold coming out, I don’t really see the need of coming out of stealth at all as long as I can keep my caltrops on dodge.

I’m willing to practice very hard at it, so difficulty isn’t an issue to consider.

Thank you! :-)

Ask and you shall receive…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQJAoalsMp7pVPx5JsPNRRBxdAmQE8uG9I/d9CA

Smoke screen in on a 24 sec CD but it starts counting down after you use it. You can get 7 leaps through it if you’re quick giving you roughly 15 secs of stealth. Once it ends, there will be 17 secs CD on Smoke Screen. Use heal or another BP plus HS and wait for the CD on Smoke screen. Use SR before engaging since it gives you the long duration stealth. Caltrops utilities and caltrops on dodge on top of your enemies. Steal adds a bit of confusion damage too. Good Luck and Happy Trolling.

You can tweak the build a bit to suit your needs like changing acro trait to give 50% speed in stealth.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

The devs in charge of core balance said themselves on Ready Up that “if you believe thief is OP, you do not play one.”

I dont know about everyone else who wants the class nerfed without so much as giving it a try to see how difficult staying alive is for thief, but I’m pretty sure the conviction with which the above quote was expressed has validity, judging from where it comes from.

Because the Devs are always right? Dhumfire buff then nerf was right? RF buff was right? Turret buff then nurf was right?

Please….

The Dev said they nerfed the instant cast of sword #2 return because it was too powerful to use IS+IR+steal/IS to secure a stomp. So please….know what you’re talking about.

Sizzle Hint.1820:

Quadox.7834:

Ravenmoon.5318:

serenke.4806:

Ravenmoon.5318:

WhiteCrow.5310:

serenke.4806:

It’s really hard to see why you would defend the mechanic that you can attack from stealth and get blocked and then not get revealed. How is that not absolutely broken?

It’s the shining example of their forgiving gameplay. If you’re dumb enough to attack someone with a block up, you should be punished. But alas ..

If the block has a counter (E.g. ranger gs block or warrior sword block) it does counter properly.

If it doesn’t then it doesn’t punish. Simple as that.

Also define punish. Why should someone be punished because you decided to go invulnerable? Which class actually gets punished for attacking blocking character? Every decent player auto-attacks until your block/mist is gone.

This change makes absolutely 0 sense. It won’t help you beat thieves. You’ll still die to them. If you can’t see that, you are a baddie.

Just my 2 cents.

Quite simple. Have you ever seen a movie about snipers? It’s usually about hiding and hoping that you notice the enemy before they notice you. The one who shoots reveals his location (in the movies anyhow) and the other one has an advantage. That’s how you feel when you know the thief went into stealth. If you block a thief when he is attacking from stealth he is like the sniper that gave away his location. He should be forced to hide again/switch location, but no, in our case he can just shoot again and again until he finally headshots you (you ran out of blocks). It’s not that he should be “punished” or that this would help anyone beat thieves, it just does not make sense and it eradicates any smart counterplay.

“Punish” in this case is being revealed which makes absolute sense since the thief in question attacked after all.

This is guild wars 2, not call of duty.
But using your analogy. Please enlighten me how are you going to stop a sniper bullet with a sword. This kitten is viable only in bollywood movies.

Also the thief doesn’t attack from 2 miles away. They are in your melee range and after the block popup you very well know where the said thief is.

If you don’kittens L2P issue.

They can use shortbow auto from stealth to immob (even double-immob). I can dodge three of theese om my mes, get hit by the fourth one and still die. That is why people don’t like it.

Or you could distort it and reflect it right back into his face…

Or the thief could wait until the distortion wears off then try again…

And even if you reflect it (good counter) the thief is still not revealed for poor play.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

babayum.1895:

Shadow.1345:

The typical I got facerolled so nerf the class post.

Dont read my post? I say i beat his sry kitten but he can just teleport away regen come back and kill me. Balance? Where is balance with thief profession??

Saying you beat him when you didn’t doesn’t mean you beat him.

Preventing the port is part of the match. Because you failed to prevent the port, you lost.

Or “Almost won”.

And to people expressing interest in showing damage numbers when you hit a stealthed thief: What are ye, nutz?

Reveal on block or on miss is fine. bad thieves attack shield stance/aegis, and any proc of those forces reconsideration of strategy.

Allowing people to track you in stealth with cleave is ridiculous. We already have autoattack chain watching to give hints as to whether you hit something or not.

Gabriell.4856:

Supreme.3164:

visible damage on stealthed targets*

.you would not be able to land a single backstab-

Wow really? Come duel me on my thief. I’ll give you 500 gold if I can’t land a BS. But if I can, perma delete your account.

What are you talking about?

He said quite plainly that if damage numbers were shown over a stealthed thief when they were hit, he would be able to track you easily.

And he’s not wrong.

What does dueling him now have to do with any of tha-

Oh, I get it. Lol.

Hm…I misread his post. My bad.

Supreme.3164:

The reveal on block, be right or not would still allow thieves to reposition themselves on a second attempt. Now there are quite few thieves that have been insulting, trolling this thread for ages and what I find hilarious is that the same people who are against reveal on block now are in favour of visible damage on stealthed targets

These “players” completely ignore the fact that there are multi hit aoe on very short cd on top of condi aoe, a smart player would be able to track you easily even if stealthed..you would not be able to land a single backstab, I’d know how far/close you are and prepare my attacks if they’re on target skills.

“Now there are quite few thieves that have been insulting, trolling this thread for ages…”

" a smart player would be able to track you easily even if stealthed..you would not be able to land a single backstab, I’d know how far/close you are…"

Wow really? Come duel me on my thief. I’ll give you 500 gold if I can’t land a BS. But if I can, perma delete your account.

Kageseigi.2150:

Quote to kitten long

Breaking Aegis while in stealth does not reveal the exact location of the thief. You will have a general idea of where he is but never exactly, so your counter to the stealth attack will always “hope for the best” since you can’t see the thief. Did the thief BS and repositioned then watched you try to counter wasting CD’s like an idiot? Maybe…

Stealth vs Invul:
Totally agree with you. Please make invul/distortion break after missing/block/etc but reduce CD to 9 secs. Also make it last up to 15 secs. /shrug

Only 2 classes can do full damage while being invul; X/F ele and Mesmer. Two classes/builds that the thief pushes out of the meta. So please tell me more about this “uncounterability….” you speak of.

Mobility:
Fine with it other than bypassing walls, floors, stairs etc.

Laraley.7695:

Gabriell.4856:

Laraley.7695:

Gabriell.4856:

Maris.3164:

Saiyan.1704:

How can you add counter play to a class that’s designed to play really well in order to counterplay everyone else? One bad move at any given moment and the Thief is toast.

I’m all for adding more counter play and items could always be improved, visually or mechanically, on every class. It’s a bit more difficult for a Thief when a slightest change in anything could make or break the class.

This. So much this. I feel like these people complaining about the class have never tried it out. Most of the nerf suggestions to thief that I come by are utterly absurd and would make the class unplayable.

Why should a good player be punished for being good?

“Why should a good player be pnished for being good?” I see what you did there. I’ll play.

Why should a good player be punished for good positioniong?
Why should a good player be punished for interupt of BP+HS only for the thief to HS again?
Why should a good player be punished for using the correct skill to counter stealth attack only to have the thief stay in stealth and stealth attack again?

I bet thieves are going to say “because they are bad players.” Lolz…

If you interrupt BP + HS it gives you a big time window when thief cannot stealth due to not having intiative. If you cannot put any pressure on the thief in that period of time, then it’s your own fault.

Since when does thief has only 9 initiative ? Last time I checked, every thief spec into trickery for a total of 15 total initiative. He will just HS again to gain stealth. Since they don’t have CD on weaponskill, HS doesn’t go on a 5 second CD like other interupts…

15-9 = 6 =/=9

Exactly! So why did you say a BP+HS interrupt will leave the thief with no initiative?

Ravenmoon.5318:

Gabriell.4856:

Ravenmoon.5318:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Nope did not get owned by a thief, sorry conspiracy theory thieves. Only thief to own me in recent days was a really really good sword/dagger one and even then after 3rd encouter he had some major hard time with my ranger. On to the subject:

Ok, a-net, you got some explaning to do.
A while ago you said yourself you want to move away from hard counter gameplay into soft counter style, so player skill has bigger say in result of pvp encounters then their build.

And for most part you’re keeping true to your word – quickness and berserker stance becoming boons which can be stripped or corrupted, elite specs filling gaps base professsions had etc.

….except thieves.

Shadowstepping. Stealth not removed when blocked or evaded, basilisk venom piercing stability, phletora of instant casts including a heal skill that breaks movement inpairment and has massive evade, initiative unaffected by chilling or interrupt induced skill cooldown.

So where exactly is the room for “skilled counter gameplay” against a thief who knows his stuff in pvp? Cause so far all i see is the “hold the point and survive for as long as possible”.

Learn to play or make a thief before jumping into conclusions.
The only reason basilisk venom pierces your stability is because the thief was savvy enough to strip you of your stability. Yeah, its the first boon you lose when the thief Steals from you. There is a boon priority, Aegis and stability are the first in line.

Also, since you seem to know jack about thieves – Larcenous Strike steals your might with priority. So you better off not stacking it. Its the #1 reason all D/D cele eles cry from S/D thieves. They give them might stacks throughout the fight. No blame from me though, its the build that uses the same skill rotation vs any other opponent.

Also if only 1 thief managed to beat you “in months”, then by logic thief is fine no? Clearly your “skill” gives you the upper hand.

You conveniently ignored half of his issues…good job.

Yeah because his other suggestion is silly.
As i stated in the thread right next to this one, I’ll quote myself

This change is totally kittened. Skilled thieves currently wait out your blocks because if you were skilled yourself you’d know that blocking lets you know the thief’s position. Change that and yeah you’ll kill scrub thieves i guess. Though you should be able to takeout scrub thieves even now because they don’t think much.
The following week the good thieves will stab you brutally again and because you don’t know how to protect yourself properly you’ll come to the forums again begging for backstab nerf.
Maybe create a thief and see how “ridiculously OP” it is before judging?

Pardon me for choosing not to repeat myself earlier.

I see now. Your response is silly.

Laraley.7695:

Gabriell.4856:

Maris.3164:

Saiyan.1704:

How can you add counter play to a class that’s designed to play really well in order to counterplay everyone else? One bad move at any given moment and the Thief is toast.

I’m all for adding more counter play and items could always be improved, visually or mechanically, on every class. It’s a bit more difficult for a Thief when a slightest change in anything could make or break the class.

This. So much this. I feel like these people complaining about the class have never tried it out. Most of the nerf suggestions to thief that I come by are utterly absurd and would make the class unplayable.

Why should a good player be punished for being good?

“Why should a good player be pnished for being good?” I see what you did there. I’ll play.

Why should a good player be punished for good positioniong?
Why should a good player be punished for interupt of BP+HS only for the thief to HS again?
Why should a good player be punished for using the correct skill to counter stealth attack only to have the thief stay in stealth and stealth attack again?

I bet thieves are going to say “because they are bad players.” Lolz…

If you interrupt BP + HS it gives you a big time window when thief cannot stealth due to not having intiative. If you cannot put any pressure on the thief in that period of time, then it’s your own fault.

Since when does thief has only 9 initiative ? Last time I checked, every thief spec into trickery for a total of 15 total initiative. He will just HS again to gain stealth. Since they don’t have CD on weaponskill, HS doesn’t go on a 5 second CD like other interupts…

Ravenmoon.5318:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Nope did not get owned by a thief, sorry conspiracy theory thieves. Only thief to own me in recent days was a really really good sword/dagger one and even then after 3rd encouter he had some major hard time with my ranger. On to the subject:

Ok, a-net, you got some explaning to do.
A while ago you said yourself you want to move away from hard counter gameplay into soft counter style, so player skill has bigger say in result of pvp encounters then their build.

And for most part you’re keeping true to your word – quickness and berserker stance becoming boons which can be stripped or corrupted, elite specs filling gaps base professsions had etc.

….except thieves.

Shadowstepping. Stealth not removed when blocked or evaded, basilisk venom piercing stability, phletora of instant casts including a heal skill that breaks movement inpairment and has massive evade, initiative unaffected by chilling or interrupt induced skill cooldown.

So where exactly is the room for “skilled counter gameplay” against a thief who knows his stuff in pvp? Cause so far all i see is the “hold the point and survive for as long as possible”.

Learn to play or make a thief before jumping into conclusions.
The only reason basilisk venom pierces your stability is because the thief was savvy enough to strip you of your stability. Yeah, its the first boon you lose when the thief Steals from you. There is a boon priority, Aegis and stability are the first in line.

Also, since you seem to know jack about thieves – Larcenous Strike steals your might with priority. So you better off not stacking it. Its the #1 reason all D/D cele eles cry from S/D thieves. They give them might stacks throughout the fight. No blame from me though, its the build that uses the same skill rotation vs any other opponent.

Also if only 1 thief managed to beat you “in months”, then by logic thief is fine no? Clearly your “skill” gives you the upper hand.

You conveniently ignored half of his issues…good job.

Maris.3164:

Saiyan.1704:

How can you add counter play to a class that’s designed to play really well in order to counterplay everyone else? One bad move at any given moment and the Thief is toast.

I’m all for adding more counter play and items could always be improved, visually or mechanically, on every class. It’s a bit more difficult for a Thief when a slightest change in anything could make or break the class.

This. So much this. I feel like these people complaining about the class have never tried it out. Most of the nerf suggestions to thief that I come by are utterly absurd and would make the class unplayable.

Why should a good player be punished for being good?

“Why should a good player be pnished for being good?” I see what you did there. I’ll play.

Why should a good player be punished for good positioniong?
Why should a good player be punished for interupt of BP+HS only for the thief to HS again?
Why should a good player be punished for using the correct skill to counter stealth attack only to have the thief stay in stealth and stealth attack again?

I bet thieves are going to say “because they are bad players.” Lolz…

pupi.2465:

Hello fellow Teefs, i’ve been playing Thief for about 8 or 9 months, moved from warrior, and obsvly, loving the class, but i am having problems against Guardians.

So, i would like to know from the veteran ones, is there a way to deal against them? are they our Counter and we’re not supposed to beat them? It seems they can bunk the dmg, heal enough and kill us at the same time.

*note, i know we can step away, to restart the fight, but im talking about duels.

Im playing D/D Sbow. 5/6/0/3/0

Need to know what type of guardians. Medi plus what weapon set?

Sagat.3285:

Gabriell.4856:

What about removing the ability to stack stealth other than SR?

Whenever I fight thieves and they use BP+HS, I don’t know if they HS 1, 2, 3, or 4 times. It makes it really hard to predict and counter when they are waiting in stealth for 6+ secs. If they can’t stack it, I know for sure they have 3 secs to either run or attack and I can plan a counter accordingly.

And blasting smoke fields from PvP and PvE point of view O.o? Not being the “nah” guy just making sure nothing is left out when some of those suggestions are made.

I mean smoke combo in general like you menationed, BP + CB. If PvE players want to bypass mobs, they can still use SR or Engi ES.

What about removing the ability to stack stealth other than SR?

Whenever I fight thieves and they use BP+HS, I don’t know if they HS 1, 2, 3, or 4 times. It makes it really hard to predict and counter when they are waiting in stealth for 6+ secs. If they can’t stack it, I know for sure they have 3 secs to either run or attack and I can plan a counter accordingly.

Shadow.1345:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Shadow.1345:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Shadow.1345:

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadow.1345:

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadow.1345:

I was just in a match and saw I was paired with two other thieves. I didn’t want to be in a Ranked match with 3 thieves so I switched to warrior. My second match as a warrior and being a thief win day there was 2 thieves on the opposing team. Early in I was defending a point and the thief went into stealth. My toon’s life flashed before my eyes, I thought for sure he was dead with this invincible mechanic being used against me. I spammed my AA in a dread panic and in 2 seconds it was all over…

…there was a downed thief that lost his nigh invulnerable and un-uncounterable stealth.

I breathed a sigh of relief and AAed the poor thief to death.

L2P.

Uhmm how do you AA something you can’t see? So…The thief decided to eat all your AA then? what?

So…. are you parading the fact that the thief decided to stay in place while in stealth to eat all your AA? What a joke.

Any half decent thief will move away from where the are he is being attacked to avoid damage.

#Flopsomemore

No, it’s called moving and thinking. I just moved around, swung my sword starting from where I knew he went into stealth at and moved in the direction I guessed he would move to get a backstab off on me. Not that hard really.

#L2PNoob

So the thief can move too? Not that hard really.

Yes, the thief can move too and as someone who mains a thief I know that despite being able to move sometimes we just don’t move fast enough or in the wrong direction and eat that damage. The point people are missing is that stealth doesn’t make a thief any less squishy.

The point most are missing is a good thief won’t make these mistakes and won’t leave such a weak counter play option available, which is why AOE or AA spam is not viable or even valuable counter play.

So what you’re saying is good players should be punished for being good at what they do?

Alright because this is going over your head I will try to break this down. Playing a guessing game with thiefs or the stealth mechanic in general is not fun and it does not make someone a better a player, neither does it promote skillful gameplay.

Good players do not make mistakes (to often) like take a face full of auto attacks or not dodging in their refuge when they know AOEs are coming. This has been pretty much common knowledge as a thief to dodge in your refuge and to bait out dodges/cooldowns before you open/burst.

There is no counterplay to stop a thief from doing whatever they want to their target they can call out a target and spike them from 1800 range whenever they want. Whether it is from stealth or just completely out of line of sight.

From 1800 range? How?

Also there are things about probably every profession someone can say is not fun to play against or doesn’t promote skillful play.

1800 range

SS+Steal or SS+IS or Steal+IS or SS +Sword#2 or Sword blah blah blah blah blah…

choucs.4507:

Thief can literally 1v1 anything if you don’t need to capture an objective
you can literally reset any fight after you make mistake and try again until you kill the enemy foe
the panic strike build is the most forgiving one, i’ve seen someone reset all their CDs 3 times in a role, it’s literally god mode.

Agree. That’s why they making Improv a GM trait since it is going to be a very strong trait. It has the potential to put your heal off CD…

I feel like the vamp runes carried so many players…It hurts to see that matches won and good players are outplayed by passive procs….

Tikitaka.1340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7qBncb-r5o

While this may not be the most entertaining thief video I’ve seen, I will admit the video showed that you’re a solid thief player.

Good timing of skills and resource/cd management. You don’t immediately use stolen iteams like most thieves but instead wait for the right moment. Good use of shadow step and positioning in general. Overall, a good player.

TyPin.9860:

I agree with Nema Tode here.

3 sec of stealth can still clear 3 conditions with only 2 trait points needed. And depending on the build, thieves have a lot of that. I personally play Mesmer. And on my CI build I have not a single condition clear and I still am fine (except for P/D condi thieves… but well, we all know the story).

As for other defenses. Yes stealth doesn’t make you invulnerable. But I, as Mesmer, understand very well the importance of unpredictable positioning and stealth (less access to it than thieves). So do not tell me, how weak stealth is, even if you can’t chain it. I agree though that this comparison falls a bit short, because as a Mesmer I can rely on damage pressure from range.

However. I believe that, except for Shadow Refuge being screwed over with this bug, Thieves can adept. Chain stealthing is very annoying to deal with against Thieves and Mesmers alike. And preventing such a thing and requiring you to think a bit more about what you’re doing is a welcome change imho.

3 secs of stealth clears 3 condi? Maybe 2 years ago…

nightblood.7910:

Obviously if they were going to make a change to stealth, it wouldnt completely break SR like it is right now. Even if they intend to make a change to stealth, its not going to be this.

Like how they nerfed IR because the Dev think using the combo of IS, IR, plus steal/SS/IS to secure a stomp was too strong? Don’t underestimate the imagination of the devs…

I suggest giving feeback here where a Dev posted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Revealed-bug-introduced-with-patch-3/first#post5082156

Josh Davis.6015:

I don’t think this is intended, but I’ll need to follow-up with the skills team in the morning to be sure. Either way, I started an email chain about this. Thanks for the reports.

Stealth ending cause reveal…each attacks hitting a thief reduce 1 second of stealth. That isn’t something a bug can cause…it’s multiple lines of coding and was accidentally included in this patch before HOT. Thieves are kittened.

I’m more curious as to what Anet intends to do with stealth…

Obviously, they are doing something…and from the looks of it, it doesnt looks good for thieves…

Mordecai.6318:

MLGKorno.5419:

I wasn’t going to post it but I’ve been trying to lose my reputation of running full soldiers in WvW and wanted some notoriety from dueling a “famous” thief who’s better in team fights than duels on an old meta spec so people can learn from something that’s already not good enough to compete and speculated to be even worse in a few months.

Obviously this format worked the last time with Caed. I wonder if lettuce will appear in round 2!

If you know Toker, he been running 2/0/06/6 for a while. So yeah…you’re post is pointless.

Things don’t get broken unless they are modifying stealth. Seems like they are going to change stealth somehow…but not ready to implement it.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

thanks for sharing

gotta l2SB and this was a nice demonstration

Pretty much this. I didn’t see Toker use SB that much which really hurt him.

Zietlogik.6208:

nothing other than removing a condition affects condi damage.

And minus condition duration and traits such as Engi’s AR..

Empty Sky.6354:

This is how I feel.
Robert is awsome and when he talks about a certain class,he talks about that class. He knows he is showing this to public for first time,so he is on point. Unlike Grouch,Roy (ugh I cringe when he talks about anything) and others,who constantly laugh,get distracted by smallest of things and repeat X amount of times,that everything is work in progress (here’s a tip…put WORK IN PROGRESS ON YOUR GREEN SCREEN AS BACKGROUND), Robert really delivers.

What I think about Necro’s Reaper is,if you can stow your weapon,I think that build has a potential to really play mind games with people. Question is will you be able to play mind games or will you be destroyed first?
I think they really need to give Necro a good portable skill(to get out of fight…I know you got spectral walk or wurm,but both show where you will be) or just up Lifeforce regen and give Lifeforce baseline of 25% to start with.

Yes, he seems like the type that is all business and play later.

I love how the girl (don’t remember her name) was cracking jokes but Robert was like “whatever, I have a presentation to do.”

This happened again last night.

Why am I fighting full premade or 3+ premade?

It was late at night like 3AM EST…is there really no one else playing and they just match me vs higher MMR just because….?

I’m willing to bet my MMR is low as hell. Why even start the match for the sake of time que knowing both sides aren’t going to enjoy it?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Archon.6481:

Not that I agree with SoH behind made baseline, but your ad hominem is getting annoying. You keep saying that what he’s suggesting is obviously bad and you’re using that as “evidence” that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. This is ad hominem and appeal to ridicule. If you’re not going to contribute to the discussion and just insult people then just please stop.

Can you kindly point where I made an ad hom?

The whole time I was talking about how this discussion would have been better if the OP gave use more information on why he think SoH as base line is a good idea instead of using a “me too” reason just because Mesmer had their GM in baseline.

Gabriell.4856:

I mean this one:

“My opinion is different. I’m willing to bet 2 cents that the new elite spec will not have any condi clear. With what we know about the new condi buff, ticking for 2K+, condi clear will be mandatory. This will force us to spec into trickery, deadly arts, and shadow arts or acro. Basically, the same crap as now.”

That doesn’t support your suggestion though. What does this response has to do with making SoH baseline?

By the way, what do you mean by “break the thief profession?” You basically did what I did in my OP. Made a statement without any reason or why… lol.

Every Thief can see what’s wrong with this and a couple of them already posted it..no point on repeating it.

And if you haven’t read it, I posted this also.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Giving a trait line advantage by reducing Steal’s CD is dumb IMO, because just like now, every build spec Trickery for this reason alone.

Why not just reduce the Steal CD to 20sec and be done with it instead of adding it to the base line. This way every build can benefit from this, not just Trickery.

Then they can make SoH to only add daze on Steal so the choice is either add daze or confusion — instead of obviously picking SoH because of the CDR.

Then you agree with me…at least partially. Seems like a win to me.

But then again, "it would have been a better if the premise of your counter suggestion has backing of a very reasonable and applicable suggestion. Unfortunately, using “everyone does it” to support your suggestion doesn’t really opens up a really good discussion.

If you really gave yourself enough time to think about this, you’ll soon realize why this is not a good suggestion.

Laserbolt.6731:

Has anyone had success as a team-buff thief using venom sharing?

I realize most people as a thief want to be fast, crafty assassins.

But if venom share is bad, what exactly is weak about it?

It’s not weak, its quite powerful. It just that venom share is like Necro or Mesmer (lock down build), the group has to work together to make it effective. Why baby a venom share thief when you can have a thief that is self efficient?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Gabriell.4856:

Read my prior post. That is my reason for making SoH baseline.

You mean this one?

Gabriell.4856:

When you compare Kleptomanic to 25% more daze, dps, confusion, and invul….making sleight of hand a base line trait seems justified.

That is not within the scope of reasonable only because this change will break the Thief profession. And the non-existence information about why you think it will not break the Thief is evidence enough that you have not thought about this thoroughly.

I mean this one:

“My opinion is different. I’m willing to bet 2 cents that the new elite spec will not have any condi clear. With what we know about the new condi buff, ticking for 2K+, condi clear will be mandatory. This will force us to spec into trickery, deadly arts, and shadow arts or acro. Basically, the same crap as now.”

By the way, what do you mean by “break the thief profession?” You basically did what I did in my OP. Made a statement without any reason or why… lol.

LCV.7245:

This post is intended to be read while listening to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClQcUyhoxTg

So, does melee capabilities and a new Death Shroud make you fear the Reaper? What new utility skills will make tomorrow’s Reaper preview truly frightening?

As a thief…not really. If your attacks are slow like Anet said, I’ll just spam blinds, yawn, and get my free kill.

In all seriousness, still not scared.

They had zerker dagger build and that isn’t meta so why do think think GS zerker will be meta?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Archon.6481:

…should thief be granted similar baseline changes?

The answer is an obvious “No!”. This is what I’m saying, the “reason” behind the suggestion is not well thought off.

I think this a reasonable question.

Question = reasonable.
Suggestion = not reasonable.

But you go and say that you think this would be better if it had the backing of a reasonable and applicable suggestion, yet you don’t justify yourself when you say this idea is obviously had.

There is nothing to justify. The topic is lacking information to why the OP is making this suggestion without thinking about the repercussion.

Any seasoned Thief can see what’s wrong with the OP’s suggestion.

Read my prior post. That is my reason for making SoH baseline.

Cynz.9437:

Gabriell.4856:

Cynz.9437:

not sure about sleight of hand but some traits like Kleptomanic could be baked in i think

When you compare Kleptomanic to 25% more daze, dps, confusion, and invul….making sleight of hand a base line trait seems justified.

I think the only way to improve the class is to ask for stuff and in this case it is reasonable because they are giving it to another class to improve build diversity. Can’t wait for dev to figure it out. Remember…the dev nerfed S/D’s #3 because they said it was too OP to IF, IR, then steal/IS to secure a stomp….(facepalm). You have to take their hand and walk with them….

sleight of hand baseline would be too much….

My opinion is different. I’m willing to bet 2 cents that the new elite spec will not have any condi clear. With what we know about the new condi buff, ticking for 2K+, condi clear will be mandatory. This will force us to spec into trickery, deadly arts, and shadow arts or acro. Basically, the same crap as now.