Guild Wars 2

Xeyon.6419:

Agreed, it revealing entirely defeats one of the main purposes to it not being instant damage.

Based on that, any condition should reveal….

Momekic.8603:

I have noticed just recently that if you inflict an enemy with Pulmonary Impact via the utility or trait, and you stealth right after it will cause you to be revealed when PI inflicts it’s damage.

Its annoying that it works this way, and it should not reveal us, considering (for example but not limited to) mesmer can drop a berserker clone then stealth, and the zerker does damage the mesmer does not get revealed.

Im mainly bringing this to people’s attention. As much as I don’t think it should reveal, and I consider it a bug, it may very well be working as intended.

If there is the slightest chance we could get a comfirmation if this is a bug or intended that would be awesome.

Maybe…just maybe get good and keep track of PI proc and dont stealth? Get good? Is that too hard to ask for?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

First, as already stated, there is counterplay. You can still knock back, fear etc. if you time it right when they port back. Thief, Mes, and Ele can all move or stealth in downed state, which hard counters the SS stomp.

It counters stomp in general which is what it’s designed to do.

Also, you save a couple of seconds getting the safe stomp, but you just wasted two stun breaks and a condi cleanse. Even if there was no counterplay, that is a big trade off.

Thus it shows the value of the SS Stomp. If you are willing to trade those utilities, then there is something wrong with the whole thing.

If SS Stomp is susceptible to counterplay as you said, nobody in their right mind will trade two stun breaks for it.

Rather the reason why it is being traded is because it is 100% guarantee that it will complete a stomp.

Finally, if SS interrupts stomping, stability, distortion, mist form etc should all be removed when you start a stomp and disabled for the duration,

Not really because stab, evade, mist, etc. doesn’t displace the stomper when they are active, while SS does.

…and impact strike should be deleted.

Why?

Impact Strike follows the same rule of stompping and downed skills can be used to counter it.

That’s never going to happen. If they did do that though, stomping would become very predictable and uninteresting.

I agree because those are working as designed. The stomp is still interrupted in those if the stomper moves.

Stomp, get delayed two seconds, stomp again. Every time.

That’s how it is designed and I agree that it is uninteresting.

No risk/reward or other options.

Stompping is the risk and the stomp/finish is the reward, SS Stomp removes that risk, so I’m not sure what you mean here.

Since when is SS stomp at 100% stomp? You are no longer qualify to discuss this topic as you proven you are a noob.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The point I’m making is how changing the range never interrupt the stomp, which, IMO, it should.

The form change is no different than applying a stability buff, which is completely different than changing the range.

Right, and I’m saying you’re picking on range changes for no reason other than you decided you didn’t like it. Give me an actual reason why you should have to stay in melee range, other than personal opinion. I’d say it would be a silly precendent to set.

This is quite obvious. If you look at all the downed skills, they are meant to counter a stomp to buy them time for a rez or a rally.

If there would be skills that will undermine these downed skills, then they might as well remove the downed state because it became silly to have them from this point on.

The part of a stomp that kills a downed played is when you land at the end and “stomp” them, the rest is a “prep” animation (winding up for the stomp).

And it’s also a window of opportunity to prevent a stomp, thus all of downed skills are designed to do just that.

The part of Cloak and Dagger that deals damage and stealths you is the dagger strike at the end. There is also a wind up here.

In general, casting time is designed to allow counterplay. SS Stomp simply bypass that and if that is acceptable, then might as well make stompping instant or remove downed state because honestly, what’s the point?

Saying you need to be right next to someone as you wind up before the stomp is the same as saying you need to be right next to your target to use CnD. They should both allow you to be anywhere you like until the part that actually hits the target, at which point you need to be in range.

Not the same at all. Stompping is different because the downed state skills are designed specifically to counter it.

Not allowing to counter because the stomper is out of range should be the same to the stomper not allowing to stomp because they are out range.

If you blind me before a stomp or you applied stability, I can still attempt to counter. Even if it does nothing, I’m not denied on an attempt. Unlike SS Stomping, there is no trying or an attempt to counter — I’m completely denied, instead just lay there waiting for the stomp.

Dude, what the kitten do you want really? You said anything is fair game in melee range then go on to talk about counterplay. SS stomp isn’t 100% safe but Ele mist form, mesmer dist, engi exli S are all melee range yet it is 100% safe. You basically contradict yourself. Like I mention earlier, GTFO of this thread.

Maybe you dont get it so I’ll try to spell it out for you the counter to SS stomp.

Guardian – Pushback right before the thief port back or as soon as.
Necro – Time fear to hit right before port back
Ele – Vapor form before port back
Engi – Pull right before port back
Warrior – Knockdown right before port back
Thief – Port before port back
etc

What is the counter to Mist form, stab, elixir s, etc stomp? Almost none.

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If they finally nerfed shadowstep stomping then good. I support it 100%. Keep it that way.

Why? Makes no sense. It is a 50 sec CD and one of our only safe stomps. Even if you decide to use the SB 5 trick, it still requires at least a 20 sec CD (steal) to work. Balanced the way it was IMO.

What makes no sense is that something like this undermines the downed state, makes the whole downed skills useless, and takes away the risk of trying to stomp someone due to a long casting time.

All theses are in place to counter or delay a stomp, yet it’s being bypassed by shadowstep stompping.

The only acceptable “safe” stomp is faking it to bait the counter before actually stompping.

Better get rid of stab, blind, distortion, stealth, invuln, and impact strike then.

That won’t make sense nor reasonable because they are working as intended.

Shadowstep stompping is obviously not their intention, which they have expressed in the past when they nerfed Sword #2.

I think 3 years is a nice period to classify something as ‘working as intended.’

Thief has many issues that are 3yrs old and I doubt that is their intention.

As long as Portal stomp exists, you are insane to question the intentions of Shadowstep stomp lol.

What makes you think I agree with that. That should go too.

IMO, and you’re free to disagree, any stomper needs to be in melee range the whole duration of the casting time. And changes in range should interrupt the stomp. It doesn’t really matter if you use blind, stab, evade, etc. as long as you’re in melee range the whole time, then that method should be fine.

Cooldowns or what other “balance” there is should not allow an out of range stompping.

I understand what you’re saying, but it’s just an arbitrary opinion about how it “should” behave. Teleporting away and back while still performing the whole animation makes much more sense than a ball of mist stomping someone. Or a tornado. Or a flying gyro.

They gyro…don’t get me started on that. But hey, to Mr. Sir here, it is fine b/c it is in melee range.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If they finally nerfed shadowstep stomping then good. I support it 100%. Keep it that way.

Why? Makes no sense. It is a 50 sec CD and one of our only safe stomps. Even if you decide to use the SB 5 trick, it still requires at least a 20 sec CD (steal) to work. Balanced the way it was IMO.

What makes no sense is that something like this undermines the downed state, makes the whole downed skills useless, and takes away the risk of trying to stomp someone due to a long casting time.

All theses are in place to counter or delay a stomp, yet it’s being bypassed by shadowstep stompping.

The only acceptable “safe” stomp is faking it to bait the counter before actually stompping.

Better get rid of stab, blind, distortion, stealth, invuln, and impact strike then.

That won’t make sense nor reasonable because they are working as intended.

Shadowstep stompping is obviously not their intention, which they have expressed in the past when they nerfed Sword #2.

I think 3 years is a nice period to classify something as ‘working as intended.’

Thief has many issues that are 3yrs old and I doubt that is their intention.

As long as Portal stomp exists, you are insane to question the intentions of Shadowstep stomp lol.

What makes you think I agree with that. That should go too.

IMO, and you’re free to disagree, any stomper needs to be in melee range the whole duration of the casting time. And changes in range should interrupt the stomp. It doesn’t really matter if you use blind, stab, evade, etc. as long as you’re in melee range the whole time, then that method should be fine.

Cooldowns or what other “balance” there is should not allow an out of range stompping.

Sounds pretty stupid to me. Your idea whole take on “stomping”.

We can talk about it but you will lose the discussion. For example, based on what you said so far, you think mist stomp is ok but SS stomp isn’t? yet they have similar CD? One is invul and the other isnt. Whatever. So stupid. GTFO of this forum.

nearlight.3064:

It can chain active defenses for days with good healing, condition removal, damage avoidance thats all able to be spammed more often with alacrity. It can get rezzes better than bunker guard ever could. It has the option of controlling the flow of the match with portal. It has a lot of CC that teammates with more damage can capitalize on.

What do you do to not let it control the match and win?

Most of the time I solo or duo queue. And I’m starting to lose my kitten because I swear to god everytime my team has to fight a chronobunker without having one of our own, I lose a pip. I’ll be stuck in emerald until the end of days, I can feel that.

So please, help me find away to to play around this cancerous malignant tumor in our game.

(Note: I usually play reaper, and sometimes scrapper/tempest)

Usually the counter to bunker is really high burst, probably a thief. The risk vs reward for playing zerker thief is almost nonexistence therefore have fun in the bunker meta.

Burtnik.5218:

Gabriell.4856:

Burtnik.5218:

I rebember that times where sword thief could teleport out from any form of cc whatsoever so no.

Are you suggesting that players should use a stun break to actually break out of stun? What about mesmer staff port? Should that be given a cast time too?

Yep. That was always cancerous (and still is) when you fight as a war. Its something unlikely to change tho as you cant stomp with it nor spam it unlike thief.

You mean phase retreat then blink to stomp? Yep you can’t use it to stomp.

Burtnik.5218:

I rebember that times where sword thief could teleport out from any form of cc whatsoever so no.

Are you suggesting that players should use a stun break to actually break out of stun? What about mesmer staff port? Should that be given a cast time too?

About two years ago, Sword/Dagger set was nerfed because John Peters thought it was too good for stomping. One of the main reason was:

Per John Peter’s post:

“Mostly in PvP, this skill can no longer be used by S/D thieves to teleport stomp someone. This is actually the more impactful moment as it occurs more often, but I think it puts the burden on these players to run a second weapon set that can help them in these situations (OH pistol for instance.)”

John,

Now that stomping is braindead aka tiny “gyro” stomp, can you revert the nerf to sword#2?

MithranArkanere.8957:

syntohras.1064:

Why is there now a target needed for steal?`[…]

What were you stealing from before? Thin air? It’s amazing how long that have been going on.

Sometimes mechanics overule lore, but this is a case of lore overruling mechanics. It just didn’t make any sense.

Now, I would not be against some F3 skill slot that can give the thief some sort of self-boost. Like a second pocket you can get. maybe with a trait, that stores defensive items instead offensive ones like F2 does, and make it so boons, stealth stun breaks and other self-targeted effects are linked to that one instead on stealing.

So, for example, stealing from a mesmer with that pocket would no longer give you a plasma that gives boons, but a skill that deals lots of short duration conditions on the enemy, and one usual plasma that gives the thief lots of short boons; from a guardian you’d get the usual mace, but also something that gives some stacks of stability and aegis to self; and so on.
You then choose to use either, but both are lost when either is used.

But stealing itself has to reach an enemy and actually steal from them to have its effects.

Care to apply logic to Mesmer shatter? In that case, Mesmer should insta die from using any F abilities.

Narkodx.1472:

It really is that simple

All this crying about balance yet you have these options just pick one of the meta builds- Rev/Reaper/Tempest/Scrapper/Druid/DH – If you are really bad I suggest DH

Don’t like the meta builds because they are “lame” or “cheesy” better get used to losing

OR

Make a team and coordinate so that you can play your special snowflake Necro Minion Healer build and have a chance at winning with superior rotations and coordination

Don’t wanna make a team? Don’t wanna use a meta build? Stick to unranked and let the big boys who care about winning play in ranked

It is really that simple

Maybe that is true for hardcore PvPers but what about folks that play all 3 game modes; WvW, PvE, and PvP? I created a thief at launch, leveled it to 80, got nice gears/skins, did the personal and living story, etc…and I have an attachment to that character because this is an MMORPG not Counterstrike….

I want my character (whatever class he/she may be) to be effective in all game modes.

So no…it’s not that simple.

“I realize it’s not the immediate answer everyone wants to hear this second, but it’s the realistic one of where we are today – and where we will be when 2016 starts. I’m not entirely sure why this wasn’t clear before now, and I’ll try and get to the bottom of why that messaging wasn’t provided, but that’s exactly where we stand today.”

Well lets start here. WTF is Reddit? Maybe start by posting communications in the official GW2 website instead of a 3rd party?

So…8 weeks league plus maybe 4-6 weeks break in between. My guess is a balance patch sometime in March. That would be 6 months between large balance patch….seems about right for Anet track record.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-pvp-league-begins-on-december-1/

I don’t have the ingame code for it yet. Patch will be released later today so we can preview it then.

It looks like there will be two animation – regular (wings down) and in combat (wings up).

B/c the PvP looks so much better….guess there’s no reason to do FotM anymore.

infantrydiv.1620:

Other than Celestial/Marauders which are utterly dominating the meta, there is a lack of functioning condition or tanking amulets. We see occasional Carrion on Necromancers, but that’s about it.

There needs to be more 4 stat amulets with some toughness and vitality, as well as more hybrid-type amulets that allow for builds that can’t use all of celestial’s stats to do well. We already have all the burst type amulets we need with Sinisters, Berserkers, and Marauders.

New more useful amulets that would help in making viable options aside from Celestial and Marauder:

Medic’s Amulet: Basically a Cleric’s amulet but exchanging some toughness for increased Vitality.

+1050 power
+1050 healing power
+560 toughness
+560 vitality

Wraith’s Amulet: Just a nice cross between Carrion/Rabid

+1050 condition damage
+1050 power
+560 toughness
+560 vitality

Mercenary Amulet: Standard balanced power damage amulet, has been needed for ages.

+1050 Power
+560 Ferocity
+560 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Vitality

Occultist’s Amulet: An improved Rabid amulet for classes with very low HP.

+1050 condition damage
+1050 toughness
+560 vitality
+560 precision

Seer’s Amulet: More balanced Settler’s type amulet with less toughness.

+1050 condition damage
+1050 healing power
+560 vitality
+560 toughness

Raider’s Amulet: Slightly tankier Marauder’s amulet with toughness instead of ferocity.
+1050 power
+1050 precision
+560 toughness
+560 vitality

Good luck seeing any of the amulets below ever in serious builds due to serious stat conflictions or redundancies. Very bad amulets which could most likely be removed:

Barbarian
Cavalier
Magi
Rampager
Vigilant

Seriously, I just made a thread about this and it was delete because of some troll. Anyways, Amulet are as useful as the trails that back them up. Without a revamp of all core specs, a of amulet will be usable.

XxsdgxX.8109:

OP most think you can have all traits and the 5 legends at the same time. kittening lol’d at “Stability”, and everything else in fact.

Do you need all legends…you just need 2 of them and get what the OP said but hey you paid your $50 and should be entitle to some fun right?

saturn.4810:

Gabriell.4856:

All who buy HOT support Rev or Elite specs in general but what else do we have to justify our $50?

Challenging group content.

You got me there lolz.

Flumek.9043:

Hello.

• Stability.
• Resistance.
• Evades.
• Almost sustain aka “long minimal kill time.”
• Unmatched chasing mobilty, aka “double melee? np.”
• Damage.
• Big damage.
• Some zero counterplay damage.
• Boonbot.
• Low Cooldowns + Big Uptimes
• Hard to stomp.
• Great stomper.
• Free rezz every 45seconds

Did i miss anything?
I wont complain about #BuyHOT because i actually suport poeple buying the game,
but i dont think there is anyone who can support current revenant. Please dont hide under “its new and unknown” carpet and list your ideas to improve balance

All who buy HOT support Rev or Elite specs in general but what else do we have to justify our $50?

There a are kittening 21 amulets yet only 1 is viable and optimal for thief. WTF? Serious. Get your head out of the sand and start playing the game b/c you guys are clueless. This issue isnt even unique to just thief. All class suffer experience this issue to a certain degree.

There a are kittening 21 amulets yet only 1 is viable and optimal for thief. WTF? Serious. Get your head out of the sand and start playing the game b/c you guys are clueless. This issue isnt even unique to just thief. All class suffer experience this issue to a certain degree.

Shemie.4286:

You heard me, let’s stop the crying for 3 more days and talk abou the positives. With a forum like this, we’re scaring away new players who wants to read about pvp.

Big balance patch Dec 1st! HEADS UP.

I highly doubt they will do a big balance patch in the middle of league. That just as stupid as not balancing before league….

Kayberz.5346:

Lol once again people accusing anet of conspiring against the player base to sell hot

The reason anet isnt just adding knee jerk balance patches everytime someone crys is because offten these crying players are just wrong, and also alot of peoples only concern is nerf what u dont play and buff what i do play.

Also anet is waiting to see how classes are performing in raids first so they can make a more informed and effective way to balance things so that they dont fix something in pvp only to make it useless in pve

You are delusional if you think they have no intention what-so-ever to buff elite specs over core spec so they can sell HOT. Why would anyone buy HOT if it didn’t, at least for PvP? After years of player feedback on core specs, they have done every little to fix bugs/imbalances/etc yet with elite specs they were willing to bend over backwards to give players what they ask for elite specs. They are a business and of course they will do what is necessary to give them the highest payoff in expense of other areas.

If Elites were subpar in comparison to core, I would of spent my $50 on beer as that would give me more enjoyment. But look at what we have today, no one is using core spec in any ESL tourney. Again, think what you want but you are delusional.

Roy Dreadstorm.2093:

as an exemple (i play both class thats why i’ll tell about them here , test done in the mists with same marauder and sigils on em) :
take (2) of ranger’s greatsword : 3k2 crits on plate; melee AND 6sec cd (it’s theorically high risk high reward) . i test on plate armor
now just take dh’s (2) longbow : 5k2 crits on plate ; ranged AND 4sec cooldown soTHIS IS MEANT TO BE a low risk low reward right ??? , yet it’s a low risk MAXI reward , i can go along like this with tons of new skills and don’t even say to me “ranger’s have pet” , we all know where is the pet’s places in pvp right now , u let it at the base to play with the lord
this kind of broken new skill need imperatively to be looked out , i’m aware the paladin is fragile but heh don’t u feel too untouchable with all these blocks and invuln ?? me yes i do and i hate to go back on my ranger to take more damages , get less rewards on landing my skills and being for exemple forced to slot a trait that ALLOWS me to shot through people (bowladin doesn’t care it’s already gettin through without any traits)

A better example would be thief’s bound dodge. High damage just for dodging. Basically no risk for medium/high reward.

But this game isn’t based on balance so I’m not even sure why we are having this discussion.

AlCojester.4316:

Honestly, the frog show is really nice to watch but I almost feel bad for taking a dump on your face afterwards. I have yet to find a staff user who has not flip flopped on the spot hoping to land cheap kills. Please for the love of god stop embarrassing yourselves.

I think someone die to vault spam and they are mad. lolz

“PvP Leagues will mirror Pro League seasons and guild team ladders in the future, and there will be balance patches two weeks before seasons begin.”

yeah right…

Anet,

Any particular reason why you gave other elite spec full evade on skills yet only partial evade for the thief?

Engi hit “F” walk away and I get stomp by this hard to see gyro in mist of all of the particle effects?

That is just stupid. Why even have downstate?

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s been 4 months. I’ve personally posted the topic a number of times, and I know others have asked the question in multiple threads.

Why is withdraw still missing the 10% noted in the patch notes? You increased the cd 3 seconds to accommodate a trait that competes with another build defining trait so no serious PvP thief can take it, but we still haven’t seen the increase.

Ok…so I’m sober now and I will give you a proper response.

They couldn’t think of anything to buff the thief in the next xpac so they decided to gate the 10% healing behind the next elite spec.

Azukas.1426:

Gabriell.4856:

If you stand on the black powder, it does 3k damage over the duration. This will give thief defense and sustain.

Actually I say no

I would revert the nerf to BP and let it tick every second again. With how the power creep has gone thieves need as much survival as anet can throw them.

Why you say no? Curious.

Also, BP should do 3k irregardless of what type of amulet they sue.

If you stand on the black powder, it does 3k damage over the duration. This will give thief defense and sustain.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Gabriell.4856:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Gabriell.4856:

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s been 4 months. I’ve personally posted the topic a number of times, and I know others have asked the question in multiple threads.

Why is withdraw still missing the 10% noted in the patch notes? You increased the cd 3 seconds to accommodate a trait that competes with another build defining trait so no serious PvP thief can take it, but we still haven’t seen the increase.

Because stupid kitten like you and a lot of others believe in the devs. Simple as that.

And talking like that is why the devs probably don’t believe in this class

So we have to kiss thier kitten Really? What do you suggest everyone do? Wait patiently and lick thier b u t hole in hopes they buff us?

Drop the 10% heal already. They arent going to give it or it would of happen months already.

Let’s just make withdraw threads not just in the thief forum but in the pvp and hell even the bug forums. Maybe that sort of tenacity will cause a result, be it negative or positive

So why haven’t you made a post in the spvp forum yet? So go now…make your post and make the request sound as nice as possible. See what you get. P o o p. lolz.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Gabriell.4856:

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s been 4 months. I’ve personally posted the topic a number of times, and I know others have asked the question in multiple threads.

Why is withdraw still missing the 10% noted in the patch notes? You increased the cd 3 seconds to accommodate a trait that competes with another build defining trait so no serious PvP thief can take it, but we still haven’t seen the increase.

Because stupid kitten like you and a lot of others believe in the devs. Simple as that.

And talking like that is why the devs probably don’t believe in this class

So we have to kiss thier kitten Really? What do you suggest everyone do? Wait patiently and lick thier b u t hole in hopes they buff us?

Drop the 10% heal already. They arent going to give it or it would of happen months already.

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s been 4 months. I’ve personally posted the topic a number of times, and I know others have asked the question in multiple threads.

Why is withdraw still missing the 10% noted in the patch notes? You increased the cd 3 seconds to accommodate a trait that competes with another build defining trait so no serious PvP thief can take it, but we still haven’t seen the increase.

Because stupid kitten like you and a lot of others believe in the devs. Simple as that.

Burtnik.5218:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Burtnik.5218:

Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.

Even though the thief finished that fight with less than 2,000 hp?

Think hard now.

I think revenant was supposed to be balanced on energy system and yet on top of energy PT also got slapped cd. So i dont see any reason why thief cant get slapped cd on vault, inf arrow, shadowshot to avoid spamming insane mobility.

Think harder. Its been too long and it time for some mobility nerfs in form of cds for thief. Also you cant really ask for some buffs to sustain with such mobility right? Ofc you not.

You mean a freash bar of init after weapon swap. Or a new bar of utitiles. Totally forgot we have that. Oh wait they are two different class. Think harder.

Hitsuke.5304:

Oh dear… Oh dear, oh dear. The only thing I would even consider being a legit buff for BS would be a 10-15% damage increase at the very most. I mean hey, why don’t you ask them to reduce the ini requirement for heartseeker too, so all you HS spamming pro’s can look godlike again…

Let’s compare it to another skill. Well not really a skill but Bounding Dodger does more than than a front stab. That should be reason alone to buff BS.

Jinx.4619:

Critical Strike > mostly people pick this because of Healing on Crits Damages on Grand Master trait

Acrobatic > What ? does it really exist ?

These two major traits are really underpower if compare with deadly art, trickery, dare devil and shadow art

Thief is not underpower but these two traits need rework

Im not talking about NERF or BUFF just REWORK to be more viable in all game type that include incoming raid

Both lines need a complete overhual. I won’t speak about Acro since that topic has been spoken enough. But CS…in terms of PvP, it really doesn’t bring anything to the table because Trick and Pack runes does the job. In terms of the damage it adds…it’s marginal over Lead Attacks. In short, Trick line does CS job and more.

My opinion is CS/Acro are just bottom tier trait lines and they are in need of a rework. At least for PvP.

So we agree that it should do more damage if nothing else. Would 3.2 be too high? That would be a 33% buff.

This would still be lower than the double impact received from coalscene of ruin (3.5).

Zero Day.2594:

So… What I’m getting out of this… is… that they should nerf vault?

No really. I don’t want the thief nerf any further. I just want them to go back and look at “thief” and buff skills so we have comparable DPS vs elite specs. BS is just one of those skills.

I’m not going to play into your hands and get this post added to the nerf wish list. LOL.

I consider this skill to be underperforming. As a class defining skill, it is weaker than other classes “burst” skills or other thief skill with less requirements. It requires stealth (which isn’t free) and other restrictions (positional, single target, 180 range, etc).

Lets compare it to ther skill and we don’t have to look far – Thief Vault.

Vault
-CD can be used 4-5 times in a row. Init acts as CD which can be overcome somewhat by init regen traits utilities.
-1/2 Evade
-600 Range
-AOE
-Max target 5

Backstab
-CD is at least 4 secs. No way around this.
-No evade
-180 range
-Single target
-Positional requirement

Yet, the damage is similar. Backstab takes more resources and is harder to land than vault. So why give vault the same damage? Based on this, BS should be buffed. Suggest the following.

-Rename to Shadow Stab
-180 AOE
-Remove positional requirement
-Increase damage coef to anywhere 2.8-3.2
-Max target 3

epouvante.7392:

Doon.2364:

Becareful of what you ask for. When Anet nerf things, they tend to destroy builds. Players will always use the best builds. If it’s not Dragonhunter, it’ll be Burn Meditation Guardian again. I hate to see classes get nerfed to the point that players switch their main, like what we are seeing with Warriors. Players complain about Hambow, then adrenaline nerfed happen, then shoutbow, another nerf to shouts, then it was rampage warrior complaints, well that’s nerfed too. Now warriors got nothing left. That’s why I don’t support nerfs, I want them to buff other professions and give them means to counter. I rather all professions have many viable builds to use, like mesmers do.

Arena should focus on making must-have traits baselines so that it free up more build diversity.

Totally agree, i am not playing Dh but the nerf is not the way. If guard enjoy Dh is fine. anet has to work on the others elite spe to balance all the game then people will enjoy too their respective elite.

I am of a totally different opinion. DH level of utility, sustain, and dps is just unhealthy for the game. Like how thief was back at release going around doing thier mug+cnd+bs combo for insta down. If we were to buff other classes to bring underperforming classes/specs to DH level, you would have a huge power creep – not like there isn’t one now with HOT.

towerston.2790:

So, after a long break from the game entirely, thinking “hey, maybe ANet will fix the balance issues. I’ll give them a half-year.”, I came back. I entered PvP, and, what do you know, it’s still the ‘nuke their kitten’ PvP that it was when the Specialization system came out.

Before you start racially slurring me for being ‘bad’, let me just say: I’ve seen enough PvP to know what is balanced and what is not, in both this game and many others. Don’t take my opinion as fact, but think about it at the very least – and do not post if you’re only posting to try and defend you and your button-bashing. We all know ANet won’t do a thing about it.

So, onto the topic: the PvP is going further downhill than I ever thought possible. You have countless Thieves and Necros smashing buttons in a random order to win: and guess what. It’s rewarded in full over skill.

An excellent example is how most Thieves in PvP constantly spam Heartseeker. It deals an insane amount of damage, at base, but it deals more if the opponent has less health. This is because Thieves, unlike any other class, are not constrained by cooldowns.

Another great example is… the typical Condi Necro. The counter for them WOULD be Condi-Cleanses, right? Wrong. They can inflict all of their Conditions on you, one-after-another, every five to ten seconds. If they kitten up, they have the Shroud to take up their burden.

Want to know a final, more-kitten ing example of ‘The PvP is Nothing But…’? It’s called the MetaBattle website. It’s full of builds, namely for Thieves and Necros, and a bit for the Revenant, that are better than all the rest. I wouldn’t mind this if every single player didn’t do it. The top-used builds are for the Thief and Necro, and conveniently, those builds allow you to smash buttons ’till victory.

Then you have a few arbitrary things that make such play rewarded, like the kaleidoscope of particle effects that block out vision of enemy telegraphs… and no, the ‘Limit Particle LoD’ option doesn’t do much. If you have any kind of mist on-screen, you’re screwed in looking for the telegraph of a Heartseeker spam.

Now, I’d take most of this for a grain of salt if I didn’t have to test the Thief out for myself. I did, for one single day. I went from PvP Rank FIVE to PvP Rank THIRTY in that same day, and I had a very, very high number of kills by the end of it. If you don’t believe me, fine, but hey, I did it.

So tell me… do you think the PvP will get any better, any worse, should I quit doing something I love simply because of this? I certainly don’t want to, but if this is all PvP has to offer, I don’t want to see any more of it.

Spam HS? That was so 2012. Thief now spam Vault for power build and DB for condi build.

Hey, the Devs are like scam artists. They have to make a quick buck somehow. How else will they sell HOT and keep their jobs?

Give it a few years and maybe they will nerf it. Too soon to nerf or the HOT kids will ask for a refund.

Down/Kill

Thief – burst the thief at 50% health.
Thief – He and mesmer 2v1 thief. Thief got away.
Ranger – Repeat same combo as first kill.
Thief – Aoe down thief?
Vs 2 DH – Tried to +1 but became 2v2. Got recked in the traps. Slow played an interrupt that was very skillful for hitting 1 button. Had to get out with .5 % HP left. Ranger on team came and did a better job at +1 than the thief. WTF? I stopped watching after that.

Ok…so what do we get? An extra dodge…that’s it. Well, you could argue that we get an unique mechanic to finish people. Wrong.

The extra dodge was there prior to nerf of Acro. It was nerf then reinvented as “new.”

The unique mechanic to finish people wasn’t just for thief. Scrapper can finish down player just by pushing “F” and walking away.

So at the end of the day, what is our Elite spec because i don’t see one. We got jack kitten.

Christonya.3856:

So, during the beta weekend, they decided to give the Rev sword 3 an evade attached to it. Their reasoning was that when you used it, you’d get locked into this animation which would get you killed by a boss.

I immediately thought: It’s ok, this CAN’T stick. Ranger sword 1, Thief dagger 2, and many other skills in the game lock you into an animation creating the exact same issue, but instead of these classes getting evades it’s simply a “Learn to play” issue where using your abilities at the RIGHT time is more important then just using them when ever you feel like it.

However it has stuck. So now we see Rev’s with this ability that gives them straight up immunity giving the player ‘playing’ the class time to drink some coffee, and those not playing Rev have one way to counter this: Dodge. Twice.

You can’t fight back. You can’t CC them. You can only /sit and watch them float around in the air waiting for your turn to actually deal damage.

So unless im missing some thing, this skill has literally no counter play, it’s like if a thief’s pistol whip also teleported the thief to you the entire time the skill were active, allowing him to land all the damage of the skill.

I mean, it wouldn’t be so bad, if in full dps gear it did upwards of 1000 total damage, not 6k. Given how egregiously defensive this skill is, while still doing so much damage it need some sort of fix.

No counterplay needed. Instead, buff other skill. Suggest Anet give evade for the full duration of 100hB, give full evade to thief AA, etc.

Rezok.2709:

franxi.6513:

Why the character that by definition has to got the Higher singletarget damage DONT have it?

And where is that definition from? Sure the single target damage should be higher than supporting professions or AoE damaging builds, but why should thief be THE highest single target? Why should, say, a LB ranger be worse than a thief? That’s just asking for your personal favourite profession to be god-mode.

franxi.6513:

-Why one of the class that need more skill to play is so nerf now?

While thief isn’t the easiest, it isn’t the hardest either. Now, playing it as main since the start I might not be a good example, but thief ain’t THAT hard to play, just need to understand their strength and weaknesses. I DO agree that thief got some problems atm, mainly in PvP (they seem fine for WvW and PvE), so does a lot of other professions. That’s just how MMORPG is.

franxi.6513:

-Why everyclass can make critical damage with his Fskill (f1 warrior, shatter mesmer, necros, etc…) and thieves with steal DONT?

Because it’s a different profession, obviously. Other professions don’t have backstab damage linked to their #1 skill. If thief got that you could just use trait for stealth on steal. Basilisk Venom pre-fight, steal into fight for half their hp and BV stun, then guaranteed backstab hit for the kill. (Like back when Mug were overpowered). That’s just stupid design.

franxi.6513:

-Why everyclass has 1 way to counter thieves with “revealed” and thieves dont have counterskills to other class?

Every profession does not have revealed. 4 profession does. And not even all of those 4 can play good builds that involves it.
How does thief NOT have counter to other people? Insane mobility (especially with the new DD traitline), great control and high damage. That’s enough already. Sure thief might be in a little tough place atm, but don’t forget they have been masters of 1v1 since release more or less. I think we can let other professions shine just a little for now.

franxi.6513:

-Why you dont answer to thieves comunity to say that you care about thieves, and how do you think to make this class playable again in high level (making posible to duel)?

Of course they intend to make it playable (which it already is). It’s not like they can just tune up thief and call it a day. It affects all of PvP and WvW if you buff one profession.

franxi.6513:

-Why there is no balance between thieves and another characters? Why you buff characters with top builds in the past (like meditation builds) now with ONESHOT traps?

It’s a whole new expansion. Of course things need tweeking, that’s how it is in every MMORPG. Remember it’s mere mortals making the game, it’s not as easy as sitting on a forum yelling about buffs and nerfs.

franxi.6513:

-Why all the classes has blocks and invulnerabilities and thieves no?

Because thieves are great at mobility, dodges and got stealth. You can’t have everything, why would you think thieves should have that? If every profession got everything, then what’s the difference between them?

franxi.6513:

-Why you HATE thieves?

Stop spreading hate.

There you go, answers to all your questions. Peace out.

Dec 14, 2012 Patch.

Thief

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage.

Basically, Anet said we are the master of high single target damage. Again, thief is the MASTER of high single target damage meaning no one should surpass the thief in this regard. Sadly, we are the student in terms of single target damage. Not even close to being a master.

LughLongArm.5460:

Gabriell.4856:

LughLongArm.5460:

The answer is simple:
1) The defensive stats are irrelevant as ranger and pet dont share life pool and you only need to kill the ranger to win. So its realy not about the stats, its about the damage.

2) Ranger got reduced damage coefficients on weapons, very few burst abilities and limited might stacking capabilities compared to other professions .

1) Basically, you ignore, power, prec, condi, vit, etc. Bias I must say.

2) I gave an example…LB does more damage any any other 1200+ range weapon. Please respond and stay on topic.

1)I really don’t ignore anything and i will gladly respond. If I were to explain any aspect of game balance it would take me days and several pages. In short, ranger weapons/utilities/traits are designed to a bit weaker compared to other professions. also every profession has some build that “cheat” the game to get advantage in stats. For example lets talk two old “meta” builds" dd ele and LB ranger. DD eles are effective with celec amulet due to might stack stacking capabilities (3920 stats, 700 stats more compared to marauder LB ranger uses) add to that the 900 worth of stats they can get out of maintaining 15 might in average , that’s 1600 worth of stats, 50% of the maraduer total stats. This advantage is not part of the ele class mechanic or weapons coefficients, its just exist.

2)warrior rifle does much more damage, mesmer GS does much more dmage, but why limit this to only range weapons? LB only damage is rapid fire, the auto attack is kinda weak unless u’r 1000+ range.

1 – You’re implying ranger and its pet have no access to might which isn’t true.

2 – Warrior rifle doesnt do more damage then LB ranger plus pet. That is a fact. Even mesmer GS is questionable. LB damage is rapid fire, barrage, and AA. Last time I checked, the AA hit harder than warrior rifle even below 500 range.

Point is, ALL ranger weapon including LB should do 30% less damage than their mirror. Traits are balanced separately.

LughLongArm.5460:

The answer is simple:
1) The defensive stats are irrelevant as ranger and pet dont share life pool and you only need to kill the ranger to win. So its realy not about the stats, its about the damage.

2) Ranger got reduced damage coefficients on weapons, very few burst abilities and limited might stacking capabilities compared to other professions .

1) Basically, you ignore, power, prec, condi, vit, etc. Bias I must say.

2) I gave an example…LB does more damage any any other 1200+ range weapon. Please respond and stay on topic.